Heh your assailing me at my weak spot makes you a hyena.
I already said i didn't know about this Wintergrasp thing, i already said i played 1 year the VANILLA version.
So please accept the fact that i didn't know about Wintergrasp, accept my ADMITTING IT, and stop gnawing at my weak spot to discredit me.
MOVE ON.
Wintergrasp siege doesn't make WoW more of a MMO. It's a GLINT of massivity in a world of selfish players who keep by themselves. It does nothing but let you see what a truly massively multiplayer game would be.
Pointing out the flaws in others' arguments is sort of fundamental to conversation. Criticizing someone for pointing out the flaws in your arguments seems a little odd.
That said, Wintergrasp is instanced currently AFAIK. I mean you queue for the place and presumably if enough people get queued into it another instance is spawned (maybe that's not the case, but if so then why did they make the change to how you join WG? I understand it lagged up the world servers but assumed it was no longer truly part of the world in its current state.)
In any event, WOW is still an MMORPG simply for having the persistent shared world. Wintergrasp is really rather inconsequential because you still have 50+ filling icecrown regularly, and 100+ filling Dalaran, interacting with one another. You still have regular grouping forming up in Icecrown, a world zone. Not to mention the many other zones (albeit considerably less frequent grouping there.) You still have regular groups forming up for "For the Horde!" (which requires you to raid the enemy capital city.)
Just because this is less "MMO" than a game like Darkfall, EVE, or Planetside, doesn't mean it's not an MMO. It still is. It's just that the majority of gameplay has become focused on what people actually enjoyed, with the massive multiplayer part of things serving as a social and economic backdrop.
Few games manage to actually be about Massive Multiplayer at all times, and those that do are frequently terrible games as a result of focusing too much on being massive and losing sight of fun in the process. So an obsession over MMOs involving frequent massive groups becomes a little irrelevant and undesirable.
Does this mean truly massive games shouldn't get made? Absolutely not, Planetside is a fantastic gaming formula which deserves to be repeated. But this thread is less about whether more massive games should be made, and more about a misguided idea that WOW isn't a MMORPG. WOW is a MMORPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
WoW is persistantly online world and theorically there's hundreds of people simultaneously. It's an MMO.
But here's the paradox:
1) - you never play with people during quests, because level-progression is a solitary experience. And you play with 10 people during raids and they're your real-life buddies.
2) - You never even play in the openworld because many of the features are infact in an instanced separated server. Making it seem like the open-world is actually a LOBBY, like in Counterstrike or Quake3.
In WoW you don't HAVE to socialize with strangers, with "community", you are invited to be anti-social and isolate yourself with real-life friends. This is why WoW is not REALLY a MMO.
#1 is completely wrong in current WOW. Grouping can make up the majority of your game time, and be a fast efficient way of leveling as a tank or healer (it can make up a significant chunk of your time as a DPSer, but you'll probably spend the majority of your time questing between group queues.)
Heh your assailing me at my weak spot makes you a hyena.
I already said i didn't know about this Wintergrasp thing, i already said i played 1 year the VANILLA version.
So please accept the fact that i didn't know about Wintergrasp, accept my ADMITTING IT, and stop gnawing at my weak spot to discredit me.
MOVE ON.
Wintergrasp siege doesn't make WoW more of a MMO. It's a GLINT of massivity in a world of selfish players who keep by themselves. It does nothing but let you see what a truly massively multiplayer game would be.
Pointing out the flaws in others' arguments is sort of fundamental to conversation. Criticizing someone for pointing out the flaws in your arguments seems a little odd.
That said, Wintergrasp is instanced currently AFAIK. I mean you queue for the place and presumably if enough people get queued into it another instance is spawned (maybe that's not the case, but if so then why did they make the change to how you join WG? I understand it lagged up the world servers but assumed it was no longer truly part of the world in its current state.)
No, it is not instanced, but it has a cap on the number of ppl allowed in the zone during the battle. It was changed because the lag was bad enough to make the game impossible to actually play.
You couldnt have more than 1 instance of WG, as the zone is conquerable so only one outcome is possible.
The fact that Gylfi hasn't touched the game in the better part of 4 years, and in fact is ignorant of one of the main features introduced a year and a half ago nullifies his opinions on the game honestly. You can't discuss something you know nothing about.
The fact that Gylfi hasn't touched the game in the better part of 4 years, and in fact is ignorant of one of the main features introduced a year and a half ago nullifies his opinions on the game honestly. You can't discuss something you know nothing about.
You see that is exactly why a lot of BS is being spread about WOW on these pages. The most posts on this thread come from people not touching the game for years ... and so there are 2 games really: the one being played and the one invented on the forum posts.
Of course Lake Wintergrasp is part of the open world of WOW. It is and was NEVER instanced. The only part that changed was that there was a maximum cap of 240 players (6 Raids) ... during the Siege battle of the Castle in that zone, which lasts for 30 minutes. You can join the fight as long as there are less than 120/120 Alliance Horde doing the Siege pitched battle.
After this siege battle, the open world PvP zone of LW doesn't even have a max cap and the land is used to do PvP quests and PVE quests (like fishing) for both sides, while the winning side of this RvR zone can get to VoA Bosses which drop mostly PvP gear (and vendors that sell heirloom and other gear in the courtyard of the castle).
I guess Gylfi doesn't know either you now can level through PvP in WOW, can shut down experience at your own free will, have dual specs (tank/healer/dps or PvP/Pve), have in game gear changers and have such things as a ladder based PvP competition upcoming in the BG's (after the arenas). Does he even know you have personal flying mounts since TBC (and so there is not a place you can not fly/land on since TBC in both Northrend and Outland)...
I wonder why such persons with such a limited knowledge of WOW (and not touching the game for the better part of 4 years) even think it is no mmorpg.
Only the bad influence of terrible informed posters on forums I guess.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
lol poster 212 we core player did adapt to blizzard whim !when people say it isnt a mmo they compared it to original wow!or eq1!
You can't arbitrarily redefine what an MMORPG is based on opinion, or based on a comparison with early WOW/EQ1.
the baseline for mmorpg arent from yesaterday they date a while back! eve established it,wow ,eq1 they all molded what the definition of mmorpg is!we didnt! mmo gamer just use the baseline they did !nothing more nothing less"
Why the hell do people on this forum like to speak of WoW as some type of Scourge or incurable disease?
If you don't like the game, then go make your own MMORPG so that we can rip it apart for having thousands of bugs like all the other MMORPGs on the market.
It isn't some evil cosmic being that seduced you--only to make you loathe it because in time it ceased to be entertaining.
World of Warcraft is just a game.
MMORPG gamers don't have the right to establish definitions,
the creators do.
You can create your own online game and call it whatever the hell you want.
Edit:
I swear you could replace WoW with Slaneesh on all these hate threads and it would make perfect sense. I feel like i'm in a Temple of the Light that's filled with celibate monks trying to tell me that enjoying a game in the first place is evil.
I know, I know, ridiculous claim, but hear me out. In the raw sense of the term "MMORPG", yes WoW and its ilk fall into that category.
But where the glaring difference comes in, is in the ideals of what an MMO should be. MMOs, since their inception have really been pushing the boundaries with gameplay and bridging the gap between player and developer. These worlds, embodied in these games, exist to be conquered by the playerbase. It started with adventuring together in groups, to solving puzzles together, defeating bosses together. Then comes along crafting, social scheduling, interaction with different groups (guild politics), and PvP.
Every new game, every different feature is pushing this genre forward by giving the player more power, more custimization, more individuality among different game types.
An MMORPG is a game that exists solely as a world for players to shape. Player interaction between themselves, the game world, and each other are integral to what makes an MMO an MMO.
Games like WoW and other PVE focused games are infantile MMOs, not TRUE MMOs. The sandbox games are the closest. Games like EVE, Darkfall, Wurm, Love, etc. allow the players to change the course of the game. Individuals, not developers. YES there can be story in a sandbox, WHY is there no hybrid MMO. With EVE's reintroduction to live events putting more steps into advancing stories depending on player input, we are taking mosre steps to advance the culture of MMOs and player involvement.
This is what makes an MMO an MMO, the players with the power.
Regardless of how often you group or work together with people dosn't change the fact that it is an MMORPG.
Theres nothing to discuss about it. Even Blizzard itself admitted that Wow's focus is more like a MMO than an MMORPG. So the creators migh(!) know better than some blind fanboys.
Its not a matter of liking a game or not its a fact. I liked Aion a lot but fact still stands that its a MMO and not a MMORPG.
"the game is on MMORPG.com so its a MMORPG" doesn't work here. MMO!-Champion is a site only dedicated for Wow and its not mmorpg-champion think about it. Whatever lets say MMO's are a subgenre of MMORPG's then its like this:
MMORPG: UO, Daoc, EQ1, Meridian59, Asherons Call, Lineage, Darkfall, EvE.. ---MMO: Wow, Aion, Warhammer, EQ2, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Theres nothing to discuss about it. Even Blizzard itself admitted that Wow's focus is more like a MMO than an MMORPG. So the creators migh(!) know better than some blind fanboys. Its not a matter of liking a game or not its a fact. I liked Aion a lot but fact still stands that its a MMO and not a MMORPG. "the game is on MMORPG.com so its a MMORPG" doesn't work here. MMO!-Champion is a site only dedicated for Wow and its not mmorpg-champion think about it. Whatever lets say MMO's are a subgenre of MMORPG's then its like this: MMORPG: UO, Daoc, EQ1, Meridian59, Asherons Call, Lineage, Darkfall, EvE.. ---MMO: Wow, Aion, Warhammer, EQ2, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan
You're not getting the point. Why the hell does it even matter if it is labeled an MMORPG by your definition? It will be listed on this site regardless.
And honestly--- none of you seem to get that you don't have to "Role-play" to be playing an RPG--
As long as you are in a game where you take on the role of a character in another world--then you are in a role-playing game.
Even if all you do is collect fat loots-- you are role playing by action.
"Often abrieviated to just RPG, these are games in which players take on the role of another person."
"A role-playing game (RPG; often roleplaying game) is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters"
"A type of game, played either with pencil and paper, on a computer, or through another medium, in which the player(s) assume the role of a character. Gameplay is usually determined in part by statistics attached to each character and frequently influenced by a character class"
The most popular type of MMOG, and the sub-genre that pioneered the category, is the massively multiplayer online role playing game (MMORPG), which descended from university mainframe computerMUD and adventure games such as Rogue and Dungeon on the PDP-10. These games predate the commercial gaming industry and the Internet, but still featured persistent worlds and other elements of MMOGs still used today.
As computer game developers applied MMOG ideas to other computer and video game genres, new acronyms started to develop, such as MMORTS. MMOG emerged as a generic term to cover this growing class of games. These games became so popular that a magazine, called Massive Online Gaming, released an issue in October 2002 hoping to cover MMOG topics exclusively, but it never released its second issue.
Despite the genre's focus on multiplayer gaming, AI-controlled characters are still common. NPCs and mobs who give out quests or serve as opponents are typical in MMORPGs. AI-controlled characters are not as common in action-based MMOGs.
MMOGs emerged from the hard-core gamer community to the mainstream strongly in December 2003 with an analysis in the Financial Times measuring the value of the virtual property in the then-largest MMOG, Everquest, to result in a per-capita GDP of 2,266 dollars which would have placed the virtual world of Everquest as the 77th wealthiest nation, on par with Croatia, Ecuador, Tunisia or Vietnam.
World of Warcraft is currently a dominant MMOG in the world with more than 60% of the subscribing player base,[3] and with 11–12 million monthly subscribers worldwide.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Ugh... what sort of drugs was the OP on when he came up with this ludicrious idea? WoW is not only an MMORPG but it is THE MMORPG.
Every day I meet and interact with new people to accomplish common goals. Today I did a PUG ToC with 24 people I didn't know. I never ever do anything by myself so the arguement that the game isn't multiplayer is just stupid.
You can roleplay if you want, and you play a role in your group. It's a roleplaying game.
The game is obviously massive. The world is huge and only getting bigger, as is the population.
Online? Of course.
Also, reading DRB's posts makes my head hurt attempting to decipher what in the world he has typed.
The fact that this debate continued for 22 pages means i over-estimated the rationality of most of the people on this site.
It isn't about how you feel.
It isn't about what you think is right.
It isn't about what you want.
World of Warcraft is an MMORPG by the definition of MMORPG.com
Therefore, it shall be classified as an MMORPG regardless of your opinion.
Changing its definition won't change that it is the most successful MMORPG,
changing its definition won't make the other second rate MMORPGs any better,
so why the hell is this even being argued?
Signed. Totallly agree.
On the other hand, from a different perspective, this subject that at first seemed ludicrous and not worth even a single page, has reached the stunning amount of 200+ posts. Clearly it's been a subject a lot of people liked to discuss. How is that for entertainment value?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Did you know that a game can be an MMOG and an MMORPG at the same time?
Edit: Since when is wikipedia a reliable source?
I mean-- at least I provided you with a few different defintions
Agreed not all articles are reliable sources but comon the quoted one is well written and based on facts. I know a MMOG can be a MMORPG too easily b/c its a subgenre you know.
I assure you there'll be some other subgenres soon such as: FPOS (First-Person-Online-Shooter), IORPPG (Instanced-Online-Role-Playing-Game) aso. Personally I'm having 3 different categorie which is: MMORPG, MMO and IORPG making things easier to sort out.
Note I'm not bashing Wow for being a MMO I know people still like it. All I'm saying is that MMORPG's created the MMO subgenre over the years heavily influenced by games such as Wow. I mean, I give you the point that it had(has?) some RPG elements but during my last playing weeks (over a year ago) I noticed Blizzard continued to removed the last nice things (e.g. firestone for campfire..). Morhaime also stated at the last Blizzcon they want the game becoming more fast paced he then reffered to Diablo as an example.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
The fact that this debate continued for 22 pages means i over-estimated the rationality of most of the people on this site.
It isn't about how you feel.
It isn't about what you think is right.
It isn't about what you want.
World of Warcraft is an MMORPG by the definition of MMORPG.com
Therefore, it shall be classified as an MMORPG regardless of your opinion.
Changing its definition won't change that it is the most successful MMORPG,
changing its definition won't make the other second rate MMORPGs any better,
so why the hell is this even being argued?
Signed. Totallly agree.
On the other hand, from a different perspective, this subject that at first seemed ludicrous and not worth even a single page, has reached the stunning amount of 200+ posts. Clearly it's been a subject a lot of people liked to discuss. How is that for entertainment value?
Entertainment : 8/10 Desinformation: 10/10.
You can get the same number of reactions by stating WOW is the work of Satan: it destroys social lives and marriages.
Discuss...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Wintergrasp is not an instance. it is an open world Pvp zone on every realm it is an UNLIMITED open world pvp zone where everyone that enters the zone is put in PvP mode even on PVE servers. The Siege battle at Lake Wintergrasp has an upper limit of 240 people though. Now every 2.5 hours there is a SIEGE battle in that zone. To particiapte in that Siege battle, you need to be enlisted. The game asks 15 minutes BEFORE the huge Siege battle if you want to join or not (if in the zone). So during the massive Siege fight you can STILL enter the zone IF the maximum number of players (240) is not attained. Upon entering the open world PvP zone during such a Siege fight you are put into a Raid (6 Raids total of 40 man can participate). AFTER the Siege battle, the zone is just an ordinary unlimited open world PvP zone again with daily/weekly quest zones and the zone owners can go to a specfic VOA Raid where the latest boss drops the latest and highest PvP gear. That's it.
I admit that I have not played since BC. Cool enough, they are bringing back some life to the world. Great. Then they have made an effort to make it more MMO again. I can only compliment them for that. Hopefully they will give the world to the players as the next step. Allow the players to change the landscape, build houses etc. Then we are really beginning to talk MMO.
Heh and i doubt it will ever happen. Besides, one siege/conquer doesn't make for a political system that affects everyone. But they could make such sieges to be the only key to access some PVE dungeons, now that'd affect everyone in a massive way.
Uhm thats exactly what it does, only the winning side can enter the Wintergrasp dungeon that allows player to loot the best PvP items (dunno if they changed it). So basically you are renting about a game that you have zero clue about, thank your for this discussion but i can spend my time better then with ignorant fools.
First of all i already openly admitted from the first post about it that i didn't know about this Wintergrasp thing. You sound like an angry rotten beast or vulture who's waiting for the right moment to assail its prey and give all its rage at it. And second of all one faint sparkle of massivity doesn't make for a working system that affects the whole community, such system should be way more diffused. But it's something, at least, to massivity.
I just showed you in couple of posts that you are rather ignorant. You basically give out hear says from many posters who simply hate WoW for whatever reason they can make up but you actually never took some real time to investigate things for yourself, or you wouldn't start renting about stuff that you have no clue about. I didn't play WoW for 3-4 years now but i keep myself informed, thats what people should do in a discussion, have a clue what they are talking about.
Heh your assailing me at my weak spot makes you a hyena. I already said i didn't know about this Wintergrasp thing, i already said i played 1 year the VANILLA version. So please accept the fact that i didn't know about Wintergrasp, accept my ADMITTING IT, and stop gnawing at my weak spot to discredit me. MOVE ON. Wintergrasp siege doesn't make WoW more of a MMO. It's a GLINT of massivity in a world of selfish players who keep by themselves. It does nothing but let you see what a truly massively multiplayer game would be.
If you really played 1 year in Vanilla then you can't tell me there was nothing going on prior to the BG patch, especially in Tarrens Mill. There was a allot of PvP on my server, even if it lagged like hell, it was there. Most Humans are selfish and a have a group dynamic, it's fairly common and has nothing to do with WoW in general. You stick with people you like and are familiar with, whats the problem with that? Do you go out and make more friends on every corner? No friendships need to be nurtured, being familiar with someone doesn't make him your friend.
I feel sorry for you, if you have not tried better than WoW. And then I will also forgive you your ignorance. If you had tried something else than the EQ model, you would know what we were talking about.
You make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me, thats ignorance. What i said is pretty basic human relationships. I don't know how you conclude anything from that but thats fine, i am member on the mmorpg.com forum since 2003 that alone should give you a little hint that i play mmo a bit longer then WoW. Please, if you make assumptions do them with a bit of logic.
The fact that this debate continued for 22 pages means i over-estimated the rationality of most of the people on this site.
It isn't about how you feel.
It isn't about what you think is right.
It isn't about what you want.
World of Warcraft is an MMORPG by the definition of MMORPG.com
Therefore, it shall be classified as an MMORPG regardless of your opinion.
Changing its definition won't change that it is the most successful MMORPG,
changing its definition won't make the other second rate MMORPGs any better,
so why the hell is this even being argued?
Signed. Totallly agree.
On the other hand, from a different perspective, this subject that at first seemed ludicrous and not worth even a single page, has reached the stunning amount of 200+ posts. Clearly it's been a subject a lot of people liked to discuss. How is that for entertainment value?
Entertainment : 8/10 Desinformation: 10/10.
You can get the same number of reactions by stating WOW is the work of Satan: it destroys social lives and marriages.
Discuss...
Yes, but then we have you back to counter and flood the debate with all kinds of arguments of why WoW is the best game there is and how wrong people are for not believing that, so that should balance eachother out nicely, I think :-) (plus even more entertainment)
As said, it's curious and funny to see how a thread like this can pass the first page and keep on continuing, regardless of whether this is about WoW (might as well have been about EVE, LotrO, you name it). If that has been the intention of the OP, then he succeeded.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Pointing out the flaws in others' arguments is sort of fundamental to conversation. Criticizing someone for pointing out the flaws in your arguments seems a little odd.
That said, Wintergrasp is instanced currently AFAIK. I mean you queue for the place and presumably if enough people get queued into it another instance is spawned (maybe that's not the case, but if so then why did they make the change to how you join WG? I understand it lagged up the world servers but assumed it was no longer truly part of the world in its current state.)
In any event, WOW is still an MMORPG simply for having the persistent shared world. Wintergrasp is really rather inconsequential because you still have 50+ filling icecrown regularly, and 100+ filling Dalaran, interacting with one another. You still have regular grouping forming up in Icecrown, a world zone. Not to mention the many other zones (albeit considerably less frequent grouping there.) You still have regular groups forming up for "For the Horde!" (which requires you to raid the enemy capital city.)
Just because this is less "MMO" than a game like Darkfall, EVE, or Planetside, doesn't mean it's not an MMO. It still is. It's just that the majority of gameplay has become focused on what people actually enjoyed, with the massive multiplayer part of things serving as a social and economic backdrop.
Few games manage to actually be about Massive Multiplayer at all times, and those that do are frequently terrible games as a result of focusing too much on being massive and losing sight of fun in the process. So an obsession over MMOs involving frequent massive groups becomes a little irrelevant and undesirable.
Does this mean truly massive games shouldn't get made? Absolutely not, Planetside is a fantastic gaming formula which deserves to be repeated. But this thread is less about whether more massive games should be made, and more about a misguided idea that WOW isn't a MMORPG. WOW is a MMORPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
i think #1 and #2 are total nonsense.
The fact that Gylfi hasn't touched the game in the better part of 4 years, and in fact is ignorant of one of the main features introduced a year and a half ago nullifies his opinions on the game honestly. You can't discuss something you know nothing about.
You see that is exactly why a lot of BS is being spread about WOW on these pages. The most posts on this thread come from people not touching the game for years ... and so there are 2 games really: the one being played and the one invented on the forum posts.
Of course Lake Wintergrasp is part of the open world of WOW. It is and was NEVER instanced. The only part that changed was that there was a maximum cap of 240 players (6 Raids) ... during the Siege battle of the Castle in that zone, which lasts for 30 minutes. You can join the fight as long as there are less than 120/120 Alliance Horde doing the Siege pitched battle.
After this siege battle, the open world PvP zone of LW doesn't even have a max cap and the land is used to do PvP quests and PVE quests (like fishing) for both sides, while the winning side of this RvR zone can get to VoA Bosses which drop mostly PvP gear (and vendors that sell heirloom and other gear in the courtyard of the castle).
I guess Gylfi doesn't know either you now can level through PvP in WOW, can shut down experience at your own free will, have dual specs (tank/healer/dps or PvP/Pve), have in game gear changers and have such things as a ladder based PvP competition upcoming in the BG's (after the arenas). Does he even know you have personal flying mounts since TBC (and so there is not a place you can not fly/land on since TBC in both Northrend and Outland)...
I wonder why such persons with such a limited knowledge of WOW (and not touching the game for the better part of 4 years) even think it is no mmorpg.
Only the bad influence of terrible informed posters on forums I guess.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The fact that this debate continued for 22 pages means i over-estimated the rationality of most of the people on this site.
It isn't about how you feel.
It isn't about what you think is right.
It isn't about what you want.
World of Warcraft is an MMORPG by the definition of MMORPG.com
Therefore, it shall be classified as an MMORPG regardless of your opinion.
Changing its definition won't change that it is the most successful MMORPG,
changing its definition won't make the other second rate MMORPGs any better,
so why the hell is this even being argued?
lol poster 212 we core player did adapt to blizzard whim !when people say it isnt a mmo they compared it to original wow!or eq1!
You can't arbitrarily redefine what an MMORPG is based on opinion, or based on a comparison with early WOW/EQ1.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
the baseline for mmorpg arent from yesaterday they date a while back! eve established it,wow ,eq1 they all molded what the definition of mmorpg is!we didnt! mmo gamer just use the baseline they did !nothing more nothing less"
Why the hell do people on this forum like to speak of WoW as some type of Scourge or incurable disease?
If you don't like the game, then go make your own MMORPG so that we can rip it apart for having thousands of bugs like all the other MMORPGs on the market.
It isn't some evil cosmic being that seduced you--only to make you loathe it because in time it ceased to be entertaining.
World of Warcraft is just a game.
MMORPG gamers don't have the right to establish definitions,
the creators do.
You can create your own online game and call it whatever the hell you want.
Edit:
I swear you could replace WoW with Slaneesh on all these hate threads and it would make perfect sense. I feel like i'm in a Temple of the Light that's filled with celibate monks trying to tell me that enjoying a game in the first place is evil.
I concur...
I think I will add to this thread by saying
Because Blizzard made them, all the starcraft games and all the warcraft games are not true RTS games.
I dont really believe it, but I will find the replies amusing none the less.
You're right.
Those damn sneaky devs.
SC and WC aren't RTS games
They are L&SRG
Latency and Strategy Reliant Games
Regardless of how often you group or work together with people dosn't change the fact that it is an MMORPG.
Its not a matter of liking a game or not its a fact. I liked Aion a lot but fact still stands that its a MMO and not a MMORPG.
"the game is on MMORPG.com so its a MMORPG" doesn't work here. MMO!-Champion is a site only dedicated for Wow and its not mmorpg-champion think about it. Whatever lets say MMO's are a subgenre of MMORPG's then its like this:
MMORPG: UO, Daoc, EQ1, Meridian59, Asherons Call, Lineage, Darkfall, EvE..
---MMO: Wow, Aion, Warhammer, EQ2, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
You're not getting the point. Why the hell does it even matter if it is labeled an MMORPG by your definition? It will be listed on this site regardless.
And honestly--- none of you seem to get that you don't have to "Role-play" to be playing an RPG--
As long as you are in a game where you take on the role of a character in another world--then you are in a role-playing game.
Even if all you do is collect fat loots-- you are role playing by action.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Role-playing+game&ei=VZzvS8TRJ8T_lged-ty0CA&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CBIQkAE
"Often abrieviated to just RPG, these are games in which players take on the role of another person."
"A role-playing game (RPG; often roleplaying game) is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters"
"A type of game, played either with pencil and paper, on a computer, or through another medium, in which the player(s) assume the role of a character. Gameplay is usually determined in part by statistics attached to each character and frequently influenced by a character class"
I'm not a role-player but there are way more differences between MMORPG's and MMO's.
Heres a very good history so I post it:
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Did you know that a game can be an MMOG and an MMORPG at the same time?
Edit: Since when is wikipedia a reliable source?
I mean-- at least I provided you with a few different defintions
Ugh... what sort of drugs was the OP on when he came up with this ludicrious idea? WoW is not only an MMORPG but it is THE MMORPG.
Every day I meet and interact with new people to accomplish common goals. Today I did a PUG ToC with 24 people I didn't know. I never ever do anything by myself so the arguement that the game isn't multiplayer is just stupid.
You can roleplay if you want, and you play a role in your group. It's a roleplaying game.
The game is obviously massive. The world is huge and only getting bigger, as is the population.
Online? Of course.
Also, reading DRB's posts makes my head hurt attempting to decipher what in the world he has typed.
That's just DRB---he posts a lot--but I swear no matter how much you read his posts, they never become less painful.
Signed. Totallly agree.
On the other hand, from a different perspective, this subject that at first seemed ludicrous and not worth even a single page, has reached the stunning amount of 200+ posts. Clearly it's been a subject a lot of people liked to discuss. How is that for entertainment value?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Agreed not all articles are reliable sources but comon the quoted one is well written and based on facts. I know a MMOG can be a MMORPG too easily b/c its a subgenre you know.
I assure you there'll be some other subgenres soon such as: FPOS (First-Person-Online-Shooter), IORPPG (Instanced-Online-Role-Playing-Game) aso. Personally I'm having 3 different categorie which is: MMORPG, MMO and IORPG making things easier to sort out.
Note I'm not bashing Wow for being a MMO I know people still like it. All I'm saying is that MMORPG's created the MMO subgenre over the years heavily influenced by games such as Wow. I mean, I give you the point that it had(has?) some RPG elements but during my last playing weeks (over a year ago) I noticed Blizzard continued to removed the last nice things (e.g. firestone for campfire..). Morhaime also stated at the last Blizzcon they want the game becoming more fast paced he then reffered to Diablo as an example.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Entertainment : 8/10 Desinformation: 10/10.
You can get the same number of reactions by stating WOW is the work of Satan: it destroys social lives and marriages.
Discuss...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me, thats ignorance. What i said is pretty basic human relationships. I don't know how you conclude anything from that but thats fine, i am member on the mmorpg.com forum since 2003 that alone should give you a little hint that i play mmo a bit longer then WoW. Please, if you make assumptions do them with a bit of logic.
Yes, but then we have you back to counter and flood the debate with all kinds of arguments of why WoW is the best game there is and how wrong people are for not believing that, so that should balance eachother out nicely, I think :-) (plus even more entertainment)
As said, it's curious and funny to see how a thread like this can pass the first page and keep on continuing, regardless of whether this is about WoW (might as well have been about EVE, LotrO, you name it). If that has been the intention of the OP, then he succeeded.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."