I'm just the one who merely sees a company applying a successful price model from one game to another.
Yep. Because you fail to see the big picture.
Or.... do you have stock in the company or something?? I don't see any other reason you would so adamantly defend a company screwing people over for money.
Hmm .. how is turbine going to screw me when i plan to play it for FREE? just like DDO.
If it screws YOU somehow .. well .. that is your problem. This thing is just going to be a huge win for me.
So, you plan on playing for free, eh??
So, tell me...how does a game make MORE money going F2P then, if everyone plans to play for free? Hmmm??
You might PLAN on playing for free...but I think you'll end up paying far out the ass. In fact, Turbine seems to be banking on you paying MORE than a P2P subscriber would...otherwise they would just be giving their product away, and would see no profit, right??
It's bait-and-switch, lure-and-shaft.
Good luck with that.
Turbine's new motto should be "A fool and his money are soon parted".
Seriously, what's your issue? Why so much hate? You have been proven wrong on every claim you brought up, the only one that had a tiny hint of truth was a question of community. Ripoff will not happen, as nothing changes for paying customers - no matter that it has been told a zillion times, you still bring it up as if it were true.
One cannot help but wonder why you are full of so much hate for an issue that does not even concern you?
DB
I have yet to be "proven wrong" anywhere except in your mind, since you refuse to see the truth of the matter. Maybe if you broaden your scope....look at the big picture, you will see the damage this could cause to the entire industry in the long term.
But all you care about is getting something for "free".
This issue concerns EVERY MMORPG player today. It's astonishing to me that you cannot see that.
Wrong. This is not even close to bait-and-switch tactics.
Next time, before you try to use a term in fearmongering tones, please look it up first. Because, you have shown us only one thing... your lack of understanding of terminology.
Oh, I'm QUITE familiar with the term, having been in the tobacco industry for several years now.
You might want to try looking down the road a bit, instead of at the ground at your feet.
I'm just the one who merely sees a company applying a successful price model from one game to another.
Yep. Because you fail to see the big picture.
Or.... do you have stock in the company or something?? I don't see any other reason you would so adamantly defend a company screwing people over for money.
Hmm .. how is turbine going to screw me when i plan to play it for FREE? just like DDO.
If it screws YOU somehow .. well .. that is your problem. This thing is just going to be a huge win for me.
So, you plan on playing for free, eh??
So, tell me...how does a game make MORE money going F2P then, if everyone plans to play for free? Hmmm??
You might PLAN on playing for free...but I think you'll end up paying far out the ass. In fact, Turbine seems to be banking on you paying MORE than a P2P subscriber would...otherwise they would just be giving their product away, and would see no profit, right??
It's bait-and-switch, lure-and-shaft.
Good luck with that.
Turbine's new motto should be "A fool and his money are soon parted".
Seriously, what's your issue? Why so much hate? You have been proven wrong on every claim you brought up, the only one that had a tiny hint of truth was a question of community. Ripoff will not happen, as nothing changes for paying customers - no matter that it has been told a zillion times, you still bring it up as if it were true.
One cannot help but wonder why you are full of so much hate for an issue that does not even concern you?
DB
I have yet to be "proven wrong" anywhere except in your mind, since you refuse to see the truth of the matter. Maybe if you broaden your scope....look at the big picture, you will see the damage this could cause to the entire industry in the long term.
But all you care about is getting something for "free".
This issue concerns EVERY MMORPG player today. It's astonishing to me that you cannot see that.
Edit: or maybe you're "in denial"??
"But all you care about is getting something for "free". I am, was, and will be a paying customer. I ask nothing for free, but I also have nothing to pay EXTRA for.
It is just ridiculously funny, how your mind closes shut facing this concept. But hey, denial is denial
Go on, please have another word. I promise I won't keep an obsessive-compulsive here forever with yet again pointing out their obvious faults
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
because we all know it requires a $15 a month subscription to form the basis of any good community, because every P2P game has such amazing communities and no F2P does....
This should be one of the 10 commandments. 100% agree! You'll find find that in F2P games you'll mostly come across spoilt, ignorant kids that are unable to form a proper sentence. I mean, personally i play Entropia Universe and EVE - been playing both for about 2 years now. Awesome, unreplacable communities!
Having said that though, i doubt the LOTRO community will decay into cesspool of society. Since its foundations was built on a P2P system. Nevertheless i'll check it out when it goes free, see if it wets my appetite.
I'm just the one who merely sees a company applying a successful price model from one game to another.
Yep. Because you fail to see the big picture.
Or.... do you have stock in the company or something?? I don't see any other reason you would so adamantly defend a company screwing people over for money.
Hmm .. how is turbine going to screw me when i plan to play it for FREE? just like DDO.
If it screws YOU somehow .. well .. that is your problem. This thing is just going to be a huge win for me.
So, you plan on playing for free, eh??
So, tell me...how does a game make MORE money going F2P then, if everyone plans to play for free? Hmmm??
You might PLAN on playing for free...but I think you'll end up paying far out the ass. In fact, Turbine seems to be banking on you paying MORE than a P2P subscriber would...otherwise they would just be giving their product away, and would see no profit, right??
It's bait-and-switch, lure-and-shaft.
Good luck with that.
Turbine's new motto should be "A fool and his money are soon parted".
What you think .. is totally illogical and has no basis. First, the same research show that MOST players don't pay ... it is not hard to imagine i will be one of them. Secondly, I have played DDO (and other F2P) and have yet to pay a dime. So yeah, i plan on paying nothing and based on past history, i would say i am pretty successful too.
And let's not talk about the future, let's talk about the past. I have played DDO for a while and I have paid NOTHING. So how is DDO screwing me?
I'm just the one who merely sees a company applying a successful price model from one game to another.
Yep. Because you fail to see the big picture.
Or.... do you have stock in the company or something?? I don't see any other reason you would so adamantly defend a company screwing people over for money.
Hmm .. how is turbine going to screw me when i plan to play it for FREE? just like DDO.
If it screws YOU somehow .. well .. that is your problem. This thing is just going to be a huge win for me.
So, you plan on playing for free, eh??
So, tell me...how does a game make MORE money going F2P then, if everyone plans to play for free? Hmmm??
You might PLAN on playing for free...but I think you'll end up paying far out the ass. In fact, Turbine seems to be banking on you paying MORE than a P2P subscriber would...otherwise they would just be giving their product away, and would see no profit, right??
It's bait-and-switch, lure-and-shaft.
Good luck with that.
Turbine's new motto should be "A fool and his money are soon parted".
What you think .. is totally illogical and has no basis. First, the same research show that MOST players don't pay ... it is not hard to imagine i will be one of them. Secondly, I have played DDO (and other F2P) and have yet to pay a dime. So yeah, i plan on paying nothing and based on past history, i would say i am pretty successful too.
And let's not talk about the future, let's talk about the past. I have played DDO for a while and I have paid NOTHING. So how is DDO screwing me?
Simply put: The F2P model does not require any funds from the player to play the game. There is no screwing and there is no bait and switch. For those that were paying $15 per month, the sub cost will go down if they choose to continue to give money. Or players could use the cash shop to pay $15 per month and they still wont be screwed.
Usually, a small group of players will pay large sums of money willingly that more than make up for the free players.
Fools do tend to part with thier money easily, but that can be said for any industry or company.
Do a little research and discover that some stores will put huge "SALE" signs around and wont change the price of the items. Or they raise the price weeks prior and then sale it down to regular price.
because we all know it requires a $15 a month subscription to form the basis of any good community, because every P2P game has such amazing communities and no F2P does....
This should be one of the 10 commandments. 100% agree! You'll find find that in F2P games you'll mostly come across spoilt, ignorant kids that are unable to form a proper sentence. I mean, personally i play Entropia Universe and EVE - been playing both for about 2 years now. Awesome, unreplacable communities!
Having said that though, i doubt the LOTRO community will decay into cesspool of society. Since its foundations was built on a P2P system. Nevertheless i'll check it out when it goes free, see if it wets my appetite.
FYI he was being sarcastic. P2P MMO's can be just as much of a cesspool as F2P, case in point WoW's community.
I'm just the one who merely sees a company applying a successful price model from one game to another.
Yep. Because you fail to see the big picture.
Or.... do you have stock in the company or something?? I don't see any other reason you would so adamantly defend a company screwing people over for money.
Hmm .. how is turbine going to screw me when i plan to play it for FREE? just like DDO.
If it screws YOU somehow .. well .. that is your problem. This thing is just going to be a huge win for me.
So, you plan on playing for free, eh??
So, tell me...how does a game make MORE money going F2P then, if everyone plans to play for free? Hmmm??
You might PLAN on playing for free...but I think you'll end up paying far out the ass. In fact, Turbine seems to be banking on you paying MORE than a P2P subscriber would...otherwise they would just be giving their product away, and would see no profit, right??
It's bait-and-switch, lure-and-shaft.
Good luck with that.
Turbine's new motto should be "A fool and his money are soon parted".
What you think .. is totally illogical and has no basis. First, the same research show that MOST players don't pay ... it is not hard to imagine i will be one of them. Secondly, I have played DDO (and other F2P) and have yet to pay a dime. So yeah, i plan on paying nothing and based on past history, i would say i am pretty successful too.
And let's not talk about the future, let's talk about the past. I have played DDO for a while and I have paid NOTHING. So how is DDO screwing me?
Simply put: The F2P model does not require any funds from the player to play the game. There is no screwing and there is no bait and switch. For those that were paying $15 per month, the sub cost will go down if they choose to continue to give money. Or players could use the cash shop to pay $15 per month and they still wont be screwed.
Usually, a small group of players will pay large sums of money willingly that more than make up for the free players.
Fools do tend to part with thier money easily, but that can be said for any industry or company.
Do a little research and discover that some stores will put huge "SALE" signs around and wont change the price of the items. Or they raise the price weeks prior and then sale it down to regular price.
Which is a good thing. They can subsidize my gaming. It is not that hard to stay in the majority who pays nothing.
Wrong. This is not even close to bait-and-switch tactics.
Next time, before you try to use a term in fearmongering tones, please look it up first. Because, you have shown us only one thing... your lack of understanding of terminology.
Oh, I'm QUITE familiar with the term, having been in the tobacco industry for several years now.
You might want to try looking down the road a bit, instead of at the ground at your feet.
Heads up boys and girls, heads up.
I can just see all of these ostriches (with their heads in the sand) in the not so distant future saying "damn I can't believe they took it this far! Oh well, hindsight is 20-20."
Have no fear though my lovely ostriches, many of us will still be around to remind you that you all had your fucking heads in the sand.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
because we all know it requires a $15 a month subscription to form the basis of any good community, because every P2P game has such amazing communities and no F2P does....
This should be one of the 10 commandments. 100% agree! You'll find find that in F2P games you'll mostly come across spoilt, ignorant kids that are unable to form a proper sentence. I mean, personally i play Entropia Universe and EVE - been playing both for about 2 years now. Awesome, unreplacable communities!
Having said that though, i doubt the LOTRO community will decay into cesspool of society. Since its foundations was built on a P2P system. Nevertheless i'll check it out when it goes free, see if it wets my appetite.
FYI he was being sarcastic. P2P MMO's can be just as much of a cesspool as F2P, case in point WoW's community.
I don't think he meant all F2P communities are fail - just most tend to be. I mean there's EVE, Entropia Universe, AoC, Aion - i mean even a game like First Life has a decent community (although an odd game). F2P you'll find much of a chance of stupid idiotic children with backwards morals (mainly being cuz they can't pay for anything so you'd find them mostly in F2P games)... The lists of idiotic communities (imo) being Last Chaos, Cabal, Perfert World (although a decent game), Silk Road, which are for the most part full of ignorant kids.
because we all know it requires a $15 a month subscription to form the basis of any good community, because every P2P game has such amazing communities and no F2P does....
This should be one of the 10 commandments. 100% agree! You'll find find that in F2P games you'll mostly come across spoilt, ignorant kids that are unable to form a proper sentence. I mean, personally i play Entropia Universe and EVE - been playing both for about 2 years now. Awesome, unreplacable communities!
Having said that though, i doubt the LOTRO community will decay into cesspool of society. Since its foundations was built on a P2P system. Nevertheless i'll check it out when it goes free, see if it wets my appetite.
FYI he was being sarcastic. P2P MMO's can be just as much of a cesspool as F2P, case in point WoW's community.
I don't think he meant all F2P communities are fail - just most tend to be. I mean there's EVE, Entropia Universe, AoC, Aion - i mean even a game like First Life has a decent community (although an odd game). F2P you'll find much of a chance of stupid idiotic children with backwards morals (mainly being cuz they can't pay for anything so you'd find them mostly in F2P games)... The lists of idiotic communities (imo) being Last Chaos, Cabal, Perfert World (although a decent game), Silk Road, which are for the most part full of ignorant kids.
There are just as many douchebags playing p2p as f2p. you can smell the vinegar every time you log in...
LOTRO is a great game, F2P allows me to decide what to spend money on, if I decide to spend none, fine. If I spend some, I spend some. The haters and hystrionics of them is just laugh-worthy.
Hate on, cry and wail! I'll be having fun playing my way while you..cry and gnash your teeth. Ha!
because we all know it requires a $15 a month subscription to form the basis of any good community, because every P2P game has such amazing communities and no F2P does....
This should be one of the 10 commandments. 100% agree! You'll find find that in F2P games you'll mostly come across spoilt, ignorant kids that are unable to form a proper sentence. I mean, personally i play Entropia Universe and EVE - been playing both for about 2 years now. Awesome, unreplacable communities!
Having said that though, i doubt the LOTRO community will decay into cesspool of society. Since its foundations was built on a P2P system. Nevertheless i'll check it out when it goes free, see if it wets my appetite.
FYI he was being sarcastic. P2P MMO's can be just as much of a cesspool as F2P, case in point WoW's community.
I don't think he meant all F2P communities are fail - just most tend to be. I mean there's EVE, Entropia Universe, AoC, Aion - i mean even a game like First Life has a decent community (although an odd game). F2P you'll find much of a chance of stupid idiotic children with backwards morals (mainly being cuz they can't pay for anything so you'd find them mostly in F2P games)... The lists of idiotic communities (imo) being Last Chaos, Cabal, Perfert World (although a decent game), Silk Road, which are for the most part full of ignorant kids.
Generalisation ftl! There is no MMO with a community that is entirely great or very bad. The problem is that you only need relatively few loud idiots to make the community look retarded. Especially with badly moderated world or region wide channels you easily can get the wrong impression about the community as new player.
I underlined the part that really makes no sense. F2P games are also about making money. There have to be players who pay for things in the items shops, or those F2P games wouldnt even exist anymore. So maybe those 'stupid idiotic children' are paying more on monthly basis then you for your P2P game. If you can be wrong about that, then maybe your other assumptions can be wrong too.
P2P doesnt have to be more expensive then F2P, it depends on the type of player. It also amazes me that there are still people who think that money somehow makes you more civilized.
BTW, EVE definately has bad apples. Even quite a lot if you consider elitist behaviour as immature.
And I won't be playing it again ever. It's uninstalled. Not even on the radar.
I would not have purchased the game again ( had an account a couple years ago, but picked up the game+expansions in a bundled pack since it seemed like the best way to go) if I had known that the game had no future.
Whatever, I got bit. Lesson learned. No more Turbine games.
-------
I don't friggin' care if 12 million people start playing. I don't do F2P, I don't do cash shops, I don't do "Premium content".
The game is dead, as far as I care, just like Spellborne, DDO, and the rest of that F2P trash.
Lmao @ your closedminded-ness. You can still sub, and nothing, as far as content, will change for you.
And I won't be playing it again ever. It's uninstalled. Not even on the radar.
I would not have purchased the game again ( had an account a couple years ago, but picked up the game+expansions in a bundled pack since it seemed like the best way to go) if I had known that the game had no future.
Whatever, I got bit. Lesson learned. No more Turbine games.
-------
I don't friggin' care if 12 million people start playing. I don't do F2P, I don't do cash shops, I don't do "Premium content".
The game is dead, as far as I care, just like Spellborne, DDO, and the rest of that F2P trash.
Lmao @ your closedminded-ness. You can still sub, and nothing, as far as content, will change for you.
Just lol.
EDIT: You should give me your account. /sarcasm
Unless you want to. [:
The really funny thing is how he will cry when all future MMOs do that and really, you already have microtransactions in form of DLCs in offline games aswell, case in point Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1&2, Oblivion, Fallout 3 etcpp.
I mean really, a 500% increase in revenue for DDO? Turbine is:
a) Lying
b) Pioneering something everyone will want to do
The only company i currently see with the necessary backbone to not adapt this is CCP, cause they are a Indy developer with no publisher ordering them around, so it actually makes a difference what the devs want. They where always a queer bunch anyway, what with not charging for expansions and stuff.
Wow. Taking a couple of days away from these boards to get consumed by the World Cup really does put things in perspective.
First off, I can't believe this thread is still going. Wow.
Second, even after the time away and looking at everything again, nothing's changed for me. I still don't see what all the fuss and wankery is about. Turbine had a successful transition with DDO and revitalized one game, and now they're trying it with another. Whether it succeeds or fails remains to be seen, but getting your panties in a twist over it now is pointless. We simply don't know how it will play itself out until it's actually added to the game in the Fall. The only thing anyone here can do is just wait and see, so raging and wanking all over the place isn't going to do anything but create a bunch of drama for the sake of drama.
I've played F2P games before. I've also been on another MMO that was Sub-based but went F2P. From the experiences I had, I was not enthused about Turbine's change of direction with LOTRO.
So then the question here would be "what was your experience in those games that made you quit AND how does what LOTRO's (or ddo's store as lotro's will be similiar) store adds to the game replicate what you didn't like?
First thing's first: F2P gets you by "Nickel & Diming" you to improve your gameplay experience. By design for F2P to work, you are limited by what you can access by default. Exclusive items, regions, quests, etc... all will be gated from you unless you pay up. Game design is done to make you want to buy those benefits.
A notorious example is increasing XP requirements to progress. Not at first when your character is new, but around "mid level" the levelling process becomes very, very long and difficult. Here you are busting your a** doing quests, grinding, killing stuff, looting, etc., but progress is slow and painful. But 'lo and behold, over in the item mall, there's a buff that you can buy. What it does is for a specified amount of time, it increases the XPs you gain. There's also regions that would have more rewarding NPCs to battle. If you pay for it. Oh, while you're over there, there's some nifty equipment / buffs / abilities / costumes / etc. over there. You can buy them each for a very marginal fee.
There's also being sold in the item mall very desirable objects for gameplay. Whether it's equipment, rare materials, or a costume EVERYONE likes... it's there being sold. Now, you CAN find it in normal F2P gaming, but it is so d**n rare. Or better yet, you can get it off of regular, very rare loot... if you purchased an item-mall region, because only the NPCs in there can drop it. It's also Bound when you pick it up.
Buffs... there will be very powerful buffs that do a variety of things. Buffs that turn the game much, much more easy mode for you. Now, you do not need to buy these buffs to play the game, but those buffs would allow your character to do or endure things that you could never possibly do with normal "free" gameplay.
My main beef with Turbine and LOTRO going F2P is this: With a Subscriber, Turbine was expected to provide new content, fix the game, etc. Basically make it worthy for a Subscriber to keep playing. With F2P, by design, basic game features are limited, removed, or stripped down. You can get them all back... IF you keep forking out that extra money.
To get that full game back and not feel "gated" you will be forking out more money than you did for a subscription. Instead of dishing out something like $15/mo, you're doing maybe 50% more or even double that per month. The individual purchases cost very little, but the company is deceitful by spreading all those "perks" out all over the place for you to buy... each at small fees but they WILL add up to a good amount.
As for Turbine saying that major gameplay items / benefits will not be in the item mall, I call BS on that. "Free" 2 Play by nature must survive by extremely enticing things in the item mall and people buying them for the game to survive. And that can be done by a wide array of things, and the examples I used above are just a few possible ones.
Somebody that 'gets it'.
While it's not this way in every instance, in most cases, F2P is in the best interest of the company, not the player, period. I don't understand why most people don't realize this (okay, maybe I do). As a player, imagine a restaurant changing it's pricing plan from an all-you-can-eat buffet to a typical pay-per-item/entree restaurant, as that is in essence what is happening in most cases. Anyone that thinks that it is indeed not the case needs a lesson in economics.
Does the change to F2P mean doom and gloom for everyone? No, not always and maybe LOTRO will structure the game in a way that things do not change for those that choose to pay $14.99 a month or were Lifers. I sure hope so. However, the cases in which moving to F2P actually benefits the players are in those cases where the players indeed have no intention of ever investing anything worthwhile in said game or are there only for a limited time. Those trial players are who F2P benefits the most and It only does so to give those players more time to become committed in the hopes that those players will eventually spend money.
I predict that you are going to eventually see this F2P become the standard, with next to no P2Ps left in 5-10 years from now. Sadly that'll be when the majority of people realize that they are getting the short end of the stick and will start demanding something different from the gaming companies and talking about the 'glory days' of gaming when it was P2P.
I've played F2P games before. I've also been on another MMO that was Sub-based but went F2P. From the experiences I had, I was not enthused about Turbine's change of direction with LOTRO.
So then the question here would be "what was your experience in those games that made you quit AND how does what LOTRO's (or ddo's store as lotro's will be similiar) store adds to the game replicate what you didn't like?
First thing's first: F2P gets you by "Nickel & Diming" you to improve your gameplay experience. By design for F2P to work, you are limited by what you can access by default. Exclusive items, regions, quests, etc... all will be gated from you unless you pay up. Game design is done to make you want to buy those benefits.
A notorious example is increasing XP requirements to progress. Not at first when your character is new, but around "mid level" the levelling process becomes very, very long and difficult. Here you are busting your a** doing quests, grinding, killing stuff, looting, etc., but progress is slow and painful. But 'lo and behold, over in the item mall, there's a buff that you can buy. What it does is for a specified amount of time, it increases the XPs you gain. There's also regions that would have more rewarding NPCs to battle. If you pay for it. Oh, while you're over there, there's some nifty equipment / buffs / abilities / costumes / etc. over there. You can buy them each for a very marginal fee.
There's also being sold in the item mall very desirable objects for gameplay. Whether it's equipment, rare materials, or a costume EVERYONE likes... it's there being sold. Now, you CAN find it in normal F2P gaming, but it is so d**n rare. Or better yet, you can get it off of regular, very rare loot... if you purchased an item-mall region, because only the NPCs in there can drop it. It's also Bound when you pick it up.
Buffs... there will be very powerful buffs that do a variety of things. Buffs that turn the game much, much more easy mode for you. Now, you do not need to buy these buffs to play the game, but those buffs would allow your character to do or endure things that you could never possibly do with normal "free" gameplay.
My main beef with Turbine and LOTRO going F2P is this: With a Subscriber, Turbine was expected to provide new content, fix the game, etc. Basically make it worthy for a Subscriber to keep playing. With F2P, by design, basic game features are limited, removed, or stripped down. You can get them all back... IF you keep forking out that extra money.
To get that full game back and not feel "gated" you will be forking out more money than you did for a subscription. Instead of dishing out something like $15/mo, you're doing maybe 50% more or even double that per month. The individual purchases cost very little, but the company is deceitful by spreading all those "perks" out all over the place for you to buy... each at small fees but they WILL add up to a good amount.
As for Turbine saying that major gameplay items / benefits will not be in the item mall, I call BS on that. "Free" 2 Play by nature must survive by extremely enticing things in the item mall and people buying them for the game to survive. And that can be done by a wide array of things, and the examples I used above are just a few possible ones.
Somebody that 'gets it'.
While it's not this way in every instance, in most cases, F2P is in the best interest of the company, not the player, period. I don't understand why most people don't realize this (okay, maybe I do). As a player, imagine a restaurant changing it's pricing plan from an all-you-can-eat buffet to a typical pay-per-item/entree restaurant, as that is in essence what is happening in most cases. Anyone that thinks that it is indeed not the case needs a lesson in economics.
Does the change to F2P mean doom and gloom for everyone? No, not always and maybe LOTRO will structure the game in a way that things do not change for those that choose to pay $14.99 a month or were Lifers. I sure hope so. However, the cases in which moving to F2P actually benefits the players are in those cases where the players indeed have no intention of ever investing anything worthwhile in said game or are there only for a limited time. Those trial players are who F2P benefits the most and It only does so to give those players more time to become committed in the hopes that those players will eventually spend money.
I predict that you are going to eventually see this F2P become the standard, with next to no P2Ps left in 5-10 years from now. Sadly that'll be when the majority of people realize that they are getting the short end of the stick and will start demanding something different from the gaming companies and talking about the 'glory days' of gaming when it was P2P.
Think I'm wrong? Wait and see then.
Yes, Warmaker does 'get' it indeed. But what both of you fail to consider is that some of us are fine with slower leveling, some of us just dont do cosmetics, or will not want these buffs that makes the game easy. I dont use cheats or bugs in offline games, why would i pay for cheating in a MMO? Those of us will indeed safe money, thats not theory its fact. I didnt spend even 5$ a month when i played Runes of Magic or DDO, why would LotRO be different?
Yes the devs will spend time developing stuff to sell to people, but not on my funds. Thats the difference. They will see that there is a large group of people who do not buy certain things. I will buy content, 5$ for a region is good value because i might spend hundreds of hours there over the coming months/years and between a dozen alts. I also will buy classes, and maybe a new race.
I wont buy items though, and there wont be items that are very good in the itemmall anyway. Think about it, if they sold you the best gear in the game, or even very good gear, what would you do with it? You would get that "im done" feeling, that feealing that makes you go and play something else because there isnt anything "left" for you to do. In other words you will play another game, maybe another F2P where you dont just level to top, buy your gear and are "done". There is a reason there is a long grind for good gear in P2P, the same reason that still applies to F2P.
My favorite thing about lotro was it's mature community. It was my on off game for wow... I guess I'll have to learn to play eve or something.
Though EvE has a crazy learning curve, which scares younger players away, that doesn't mean the community is mature, Remember, everyone wants to win, regardless of their age, and some people take extreme measures to do so, which includes but are not limited to:
Scamming
Thieving
Harrasment
etc.
These things are found in real life too, so it's a valid playstyle, but do not think that EvE is all about helping and hugging eachother.
My favorite thing about lotro was it's mature community. It was my on off game for wow... I guess I'll have to learn to play eve or something.
Though EvE has a crazy learning curve, which scares younger players away, that doesn't mean the community is mature, Remember, everyone wants to win, regardless of their age, and some people take extreme measures to do so, which includes but are not limited to:
Scamming
Thieving
Harrasment
etc.
These things are found in real life too, so it's a valid playstyle, but do not think that EvE is all about helping and hugging eachother.
It's survival of the smartest.
I think the main reason why lotro have that community is the lack of pvp. The same with FFXI. I'm not saying that all those who like pvp are immature cus I like it too. Pvp though creates a tension in the game. Pvp creates conflict between players (obviously) and adds a whole new level of competition. While pve only games are more about collaborating. So I don't think it will be a drastic change of lotro's community when it goes f2p.
Wrong. This is not even close to bait-and-switch tactics.
Next time, before you try to use a term in fearmongering tones, please look it up first. Because, you have shown us only one thing... your lack of understanding of terminology.
Oh, I'm QUITE familiar with the term, having been in the tobacco industry for several years now.
You might want to try looking down the road a bit, instead of at the ground at your feet.
Yay to anecdotal evidence that means absolutely nothing to the actual argument.
The facts are:
You claimed this is bait and switch.
Nothing they offered is being taken away. There is still a subscription plan in effect that offers everything in the game that was already there before. Thus, again, they are not taking away anything that they have, or already are offering.
Therefore, your claim is false.
Now, IF they get to the point where they are actually taking away things that they offered before, then it could be considered bait and switch. I said "IF" because I don't see it happening at all. However, until that time, stating that they are committing bait and switch is nothing more than paranoid (or, could it be intentional?) defamation on the scale of libel.
Wrong. This is not even close to bait-and-switch tactics.
Next time, before you try to use a term in fearmongering tones, please look it up first. Because, you have shown us only one thing... your lack of understanding of terminology.
Oh, I'm QUITE familiar with the term, having been in the tobacco industry for several years now.
You might want to try looking down the road a bit, instead of at the ground at your feet.
Heads up boys and girls, heads up.
I can just see all of these ostriches (with their heads in the sand) in the not so distant future saying "damn I can't believe they took it this far! Oh well, hindsight is 20-20."
Have no fear though my lovely ostriches, many of us will still be around to remind you that you all had your fucking heads in the sand.
Yay to more fearmongering.
Fact is, Turbine's change to this hybrid model (it's not a F2P model regardless of what the anti-F2P posters claim) still offers a subscription based plan. A plan that still costs the same and offers all the same content as before. Nothing was taken away. Thus these claims of bait and switch against Turbine concerning the hybridization of LoTRO's payment model are nothing more than paranoid (or intentional) acts of defamation that are equivalent to libel.
And I won't be playing it again ever. It's uninstalled. Not even on the radar.
I would not have purchased the game again ( had an account a couple years ago, but picked up the game+expansions in a bundled pack since it seemed like the best way to go) if I had known that the game had no future.
Whatever, I got bit. Lesson learned. No more Turbine games.
-------
I don't friggin' care if 12 million people start playing. I don't do F2P, I don't do cash shops, I don't do "Premium content".
The game is dead, as far as I care, just like Spellborne, DDO, and the rest of that F2P trash.
Lmao @ your closedminded-ness. You can still sub, and nothing, as far as content, will change for you.
Just lol.
EDIT: You should give me your account. /sarcasm
Unless you want to. [:
The really funny thing is how he will cry when all future MMOs do that and really, you already have microtransactions in form of DLCs in offline games aswell, case in point Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1&2, Oblivion, Fallout 3 etcpp.
I mean really, a 500% increase in revenue for DDO? Turbine is:
a) Lying
b) Pioneering something everyone will want to do
The only company i currently see with the necessary backbone to not adapt this is CCP, cause they are a Indy developer with no publisher ordering them around, so it actually makes a difference what the devs want. They where always a queer bunch anyway, what with not charging for expansions and stuff.
No offense, but that's just the sort of thinking that got us the Dot com bubble burst and the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Just because something is effective in gaining a short-term revenue increase in one particular instance does NOT mean that it will have a similar effect in other instances or that it's effects will be beneficial in the long term as well. So lets add a couple of other possibilties to your list:
C) Trying to apply a principle that worked well for one particular game in one particular circumstance to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT sort of game in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT sort of circumstances and taking for granted that the results will be similar.
D) Engaging in short term profit taking which MAY or MAY NOT effect the long term revenue viability of the product and it's company.
E) Doing something that made the company LOOK attractive to purchase for the particular buyer (WB) that just purchased it, regardless of whether they thought it was a good move for the game or not.
F) Pursuing a model that the new management of the game felt more comfortable with...since that's how she earned her wings in DDO... regardless of whether that model will work well here or not.
G) Throwing a dart at the wall and seeing what pricing model comes up.
H) Something that none of us on the outside have figured out yet.
Which one of these is it? Your guess is as good as mine. Same for how it will actually work out for LOTRO when actually implimented.....but I don't mind saying that I have a very bad feeling about that.
Don't forget, a very highly paid and placed executive came out with the plan for "New Coke" as well... they probably even had some strong marketing research that it would be insanely proffitable for them.
I can just see all of these ostriches (with their heads in the sand) in the not so distant future saying "damn I can't believe they took it this far! Oh well, hindsight is 20-20."
Have no fear though my lovely ostriches, many of us will still be around to remind you that you all had your fucking heads in the sand.
You are a funny little man. My head is not in the sand. I'm taking the "wait and see" approach, instead of the "sky is falling" approach. If, after the launch, I feel they "took it too far", then I'll simply cancel my sub. Nothing lost. I enjoy the game as it stands now. If the game changes in a way I don't like, I will simply step away.
I find all this doom and gloom too funny. No one knows what is actually gonna happen. I don't even think Turbine knows for sure. I'm no ostrich, but you sure seem to be a pessimist.
Comments
I have yet to be "proven wrong" anywhere except in your mind, since you refuse to see the truth of the matter. Maybe if you broaden your scope....look at the big picture, you will see the damage this could cause to the entire industry in the long term.
But all you care about is getting something for "free".
This issue concerns EVERY MMORPG player today. It's astonishing to me that you cannot see that.
Edit: or maybe you're "in denial"??
Oh, I'm QUITE familiar with the term, having been in the tobacco industry for several years now.
You might want to try looking down the road a bit, instead of at the ground at your feet.
"But all you care about is getting something for "free". I am, was, and will be a paying customer. I ask nothing for free, but I also have nothing to pay EXTRA for.
It is just ridiculously funny, how your mind closes shut facing this concept. But hey, denial is denial
Go on, please have another word. I promise I won't keep an obsessive-compulsive here forever with yet again pointing out their obvious faults
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
This should be one of the 10 commandments. 100% agree! You'll find find that in F2P games you'll mostly come across spoilt, ignorant kids that are unable to form a proper sentence. I mean, personally i play Entropia Universe and EVE - been playing both for about 2 years now. Awesome, unreplacable communities!
Having said that though, i doubt the LOTRO community will decay into cesspool of society. Since its foundations was built on a P2P system. Nevertheless i'll check it out when it goes free, see if it wets my appetite.
Simple. NOT everyone plans to play for free. Research (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27581/Study_US_Gamers_Spent_38_Billion_On_MMOs_in_2009.php) shows that MOST F2P players don't play but a minority do.
So those who pay subsidize those who do not.
What you think .. is totally illogical and has no basis. First, the same research show that MOST players don't pay ... it is not hard to imagine i will be one of them. Secondly, I have played DDO (and other F2P) and have yet to pay a dime. So yeah, i plan on paying nothing and based on past history, i would say i am pretty successful too.
And let's not talk about the future, let's talk about the past. I have played DDO for a while and I have paid NOTHING. So how is DDO screwing me?
FYI he was being sarcastic. P2P MMO's can be just as much of a cesspool as F2P, case in point WoW's community.
Which is a good thing. They can subsidize my gaming. It is not that hard to stay in the majority who pays nothing.
Heads up boys and girls, heads up.
I can just see all of these ostriches (with their heads in the sand) in the not so distant future saying "damn I can't believe they took it this far! Oh well, hindsight is 20-20."
Have no fear though my lovely ostriches, many of us will still be around to remind you that you all had your fucking heads in the sand.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't think he meant all F2P communities are fail - just most tend to be. I mean there's EVE, Entropia Universe, AoC, Aion - i mean even a game like First Life has a decent community (although an odd game). F2P you'll find much of a chance of stupid idiotic children with backwards morals (mainly being cuz they can't pay for anything so you'd find them mostly in F2P games)... The lists of idiotic communities (imo) being Last Chaos, Cabal, Perfert World (although a decent game), Silk Road, which are for the most part full of ignorant kids.
Received my first Free UGC code!
Claim your Free UGC code Here
There are just as many douchebags playing p2p as f2p. you can smell the vinegar every time you log in...
LOTRO is a great game, F2P allows me to decide what to spend money on, if I decide to spend none, fine. If I spend some, I spend some. The haters and hystrionics of them is just laugh-worthy.
Hate on, cry and wail! I'll be having fun playing my way while you..cry and gnash your teeth. Ha!
Generalisation ftl! There is no MMO with a community that is entirely great or very bad. The problem is that you only need relatively few loud idiots to make the community look retarded. Especially with badly moderated world or region wide channels you easily can get the wrong impression about the community as new player.
I underlined the part that really makes no sense. F2P games are also about making money. There have to be players who pay for things in the items shops, or those F2P games wouldnt even exist anymore. So maybe those 'stupid idiotic children' are paying more on monthly basis then you for your P2P game. If you can be wrong about that, then maybe your other assumptions can be wrong too.
P2P doesnt have to be more expensive then F2P, it depends on the type of player. It also amazes me that there are still people who think that money somehow makes you more civilized.
BTW, EVE definately has bad apples. Even quite a lot if you consider elitist behaviour as immature.
Lmao @ your closedminded-ness. You can still sub, and nothing, as far as content, will change for you.
Just lol.
EDIT: You should give me your account. /sarcasm
Unless you want to. [:
Total MMOs played: 274|Enjoyed: 9. >:|
The really funny thing is how he will cry when all future MMOs do that and really, you already have microtransactions in form of DLCs in offline games aswell, case in point Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1&2, Oblivion, Fallout 3 etcpp.
I mean really, a 500% increase in revenue for DDO? Turbine is:
a) Lying
b) Pioneering something everyone will want to do
The only company i currently see with the necessary backbone to not adapt this is CCP, cause they are a Indy developer with no publisher ordering them around, so it actually makes a difference what the devs want. They where always a queer bunch anyway, what with not charging for expansions and stuff.
Wow. Taking a couple of days away from these boards to get consumed by the World Cup really does put things in perspective.
First off, I can't believe this thread is still going. Wow.
Second, even after the time away and looking at everything again, nothing's changed for me. I still don't see what all the fuss and wankery is about. Turbine had a successful transition with DDO and revitalized one game, and now they're trying it with another. Whether it succeeds or fails remains to be seen, but getting your panties in a twist over it now is pointless. We simply don't know how it will play itself out until it's actually added to the game in the Fall. The only thing anyone here can do is just wait and see, so raging and wanking all over the place isn't going to do anything but create a bunch of drama for the sake of drama.
Somebody that 'gets it'.
While it's not this way in every instance, in most cases, F2P is in the best interest of the company, not the player, period. I don't understand why most people don't realize this (okay, maybe I do). As a player, imagine a restaurant changing it's pricing plan from an all-you-can-eat buffet to a typical pay-per-item/entree restaurant, as that is in essence what is happening in most cases. Anyone that thinks that it is indeed not the case needs a lesson in economics.
Does the change to F2P mean doom and gloom for everyone? No, not always and maybe LOTRO will structure the game in a way that things do not change for those that choose to pay $14.99 a month or were Lifers. I sure hope so. However, the cases in which moving to F2P actually benefits the players are in those cases where the players indeed have no intention of ever investing anything worthwhile in said game or are there only for a limited time. Those trial players are who F2P benefits the most and It only does so to give those players more time to become committed in the hopes that those players will eventually spend money.
I predict that you are going to eventually see this F2P become the standard, with next to no P2Ps left in 5-10 years from now. Sadly that'll be when the majority of people realize that they are getting the short end of the stick and will start demanding something different from the gaming companies and talking about the 'glory days' of gaming when it was P2P.
Think I'm wrong? Wait and see then.
Your fail comment, failed.
Yes, Warmaker does 'get' it indeed. But what both of you fail to consider is that some of us are fine with slower leveling, some of us just dont do cosmetics, or will not want these buffs that makes the game easy. I dont use cheats or bugs in offline games, why would i pay for cheating in a MMO? Those of us will indeed safe money, thats not theory its fact. I didnt spend even 5$ a month when i played Runes of Magic or DDO, why would LotRO be different?
Yes the devs will spend time developing stuff to sell to people, but not on my funds. Thats the difference. They will see that there is a large group of people who do not buy certain things. I will buy content, 5$ for a region is good value because i might spend hundreds of hours there over the coming months/years and between a dozen alts. I also will buy classes, and maybe a new race.
I wont buy items though, and there wont be items that are very good in the itemmall anyway. Think about it, if they sold you the best gear in the game, or even very good gear, what would you do with it? You would get that "im done" feeling, that feealing that makes you go and play something else because there isnt anything "left" for you to do. In other words you will play another game, maybe another F2P where you dont just level to top, buy your gear and are "done". There is a reason there is a long grind for good gear in P2P, the same reason that still applies to F2P.
I think the main reason why lotro have that community is the lack of pvp. The same with FFXI. I'm not saying that all those who like pvp are immature cus I like it too. Pvp though creates a tension in the game. Pvp creates conflict between players (obviously) and adds a whole new level of competition. While pve only games are more about collaborating. So I don't think it will be a drastic change of lotro's community when it goes f2p.
Yay to anecdotal evidence that means absolutely nothing to the actual argument.
The facts are:
You claimed this is bait and switch.
Nothing they offered is being taken away. There is still a subscription plan in effect that offers everything in the game that was already there before. Thus, again, they are not taking away anything that they have, or already are offering.
Therefore, your claim is false.
Now, IF they get to the point where they are actually taking away things that they offered before, then it could be considered bait and switch. I said "IF" because I don't see it happening at all. However, until that time, stating that they are committing bait and switch is nothing more than paranoid (or, could it be intentional?) defamation on the scale of libel.
Yay to more fearmongering.
Fact is, Turbine's change to this hybrid model (it's not a F2P model regardless of what the anti-F2P posters claim) still offers a subscription based plan. A plan that still costs the same and offers all the same content as before. Nothing was taken away. Thus these claims of bait and switch against Turbine concerning the hybridization of LoTRO's payment model are nothing more than paranoid (or intentional) acts of defamation that are equivalent to libel.
No offense, but that's just the sort of thinking that got us the Dot com bubble burst and the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Just because something is effective in gaining a short-term revenue increase in one particular instance does NOT mean that it will have a similar effect in other instances or that it's effects will be beneficial in the long term as well. So lets add a couple of other possibilties to your list:
C) Trying to apply a principle that worked well for one particular game in one particular circumstance to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT sort of game in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT sort of circumstances and taking for granted that the results will be similar.
D) Engaging in short term profit taking which MAY or MAY NOT effect the long term revenue viability of the product and it's company.
E) Doing something that made the company LOOK attractive to purchase for the particular buyer (WB) that just purchased it, regardless of whether they thought it was a good move for the game or not.
F) Pursuing a model that the new management of the game felt more comfortable with...since that's how she earned her wings in DDO... regardless of whether that model will work well here or not.
G) Throwing a dart at the wall and seeing what pricing model comes up.
H) Something that none of us on the outside have figured out yet.
Which one of these is it? Your guess is as good as mine. Same for how it will actually work out for LOTRO when actually implimented.....but I don't mind saying that I have a very bad feeling about that.
Don't forget, a very highly paid and placed executive came out with the plan for "New Coke" as well... they probably even had some strong marketing research that it would be insanely proffitable for them.
You are a funny little man. My head is not in the sand. I'm taking the "wait and see" approach, instead of the "sky is falling" approach. If, after the launch, I feel they "took it too far", then I'll simply cancel my sub. Nothing lost. I enjoy the game as it stands now. If the game changes in a way I don't like, I will simply step away.
I find all this doom and gloom too funny. No one knows what is actually gonna happen. I don't even think Turbine knows for sure. I'm no ostrich, but you sure seem to be a pessimist.
Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This thread is still not locked???