I played wow in 2003 ... closed beta... that was the last time.
Not everyone likes to play orcs and elves in a colorfull casual themepark world.
Wow killed originality if that's what you mean.
That's why a discussion on these board is useless.
How many of these posters know that WOW has an RvR zone now (Lake Wintergrasp). It is an open world zone which awards the holders" of that zone for ALL highest level dungeons and opens up to vendors and a great Raid in the last 3 Tiers.
It is "only" being fought by mx cap of 240 people fighting over a real animated SIege system( fallen walls, riding artillery, manned canons, mounted combat) and between those Sieges it is a complete open PvP zone for skrimishers and rare mats that ... drop from killed players and mobs. I guess that wasn't "IN" it in closed Beta. As were .... 3.286 other things.
--
How many know "it" can be played with experience turned OFF these days (at free will). Giving acccess to a complete different - NON level game. Weird : you should try it.
--
How many know it has dual talented possibilites (with auto switching between talents and gear in 3 seconds out of combat and PvP).
--
How many know the reforging and customisation of that Gear? (through gem stones, enchanting, reforging) ?
Oh BTW this remark applies to ALL existing MMo's !!!! People talk and talk and talk without ANY serious knowledge.
They talk about talk they read on forums: and they even think they "know" by reading it all on a forum ...
So before commenting and making statements as "dying": you don't even KNOW your own games ....inside out.
Why ? 99.9% of the posters actually KNOW 1 or 2 games thoroughly so you get BS all over the place.
As was this thread.
I have another question for you....
How many KNOW all this stuff and PLAYED with all these features and STILL don't like (or no longer like) WoW?
Lack of originality... I say this because there MMOs that are set in historic or fantasy and shells out skills like a water pouring out of the hose.
APB and NFS World take it different. World for having very little skills and doesn't shell it out to all the other MMOs that have mountains and mountains of skills... why would I need that for? Individualism maybe? isn't working for me. Then there MMOs that try making new skills but ends up being a re hash or something else.
MMO is getting ruined by the mass popularity of WoW as the FOLLOWERS hype it up when it doesn't need to be hyped. I've played Warcraft 3 and I never heard of WoW until some passed away playing the game some 3 years after WoW release.
The ridiculous expectations and demands of players.
Everyone seeking "the perfect game" or trying to recapture the feeling they had in their first MMO expierence. People see one feature in a game they don't like and they go on a jihad against that game.
I love how people blame greed. They blame greed because they do not want to admit they are the problem. Anyone that ever pre-ordered a game is the problem...anyone that did not demand a free trial....anyone that bought a collector's edition with crap in it before knowing if the game was any good. These people are the problem. They blindly give their money and then blame the developer for making a crappy game. Guess want if I could shit in a box and sell it to you for money and tell you it was great to get you to buy it I would...why because you are a moron. Morons should not have money and should starve and die. Why protect the stupid instead milk them.
People should stand up and with their wallets make games prove themselves. Make them offer a free trial first and show the game is worth money. Do not throw your cash at something that might be crap, but you saw a pretty video or saw a fancy website saying how great it is going to be. If you do you are a sucker and deserve to be separated from your cash.
More power to the greedy developers making crap. Maybe if more of the whiners that give them money get disgruntled they will leave the MMO market and dry up the well for companies that are not making something quality to win people over.
Even a used car sales man lets you test drive the piece of crap he is trying to sell you.
The ridiculous expectations and demands of players.
Everyone seeking "the perfect game" or trying to recapture the feeling they had in their first MMO expierence. People see one feature in a game they don't like and they go on a jihad against that game.
One could say the sort of the same about the fanbois. They refuse to admit a games shortfalls to force a game to improve before selling their souls to it.
You know all these games, right. You are seeking a legitimate reason to publish a post. No need. We understand.
I bet you didn't level with experience turned off, meanwhile maxing-out and upping professions, crafting your own gear before you even reached a level, and using a new dungeon finder and combine the newest trends in ANY of those games ... because simply ... you don't have ... the time to invest in one or two games anymore.
The core problem of mmorpg.com: ask a simple but very accurate question for a specific game and you don't get an answer on these boards from 99.9% because simply ... they don't experience ... the game at all.
BUT they do know the MMo's ... all of them. Yeah right.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Hard to believe seriously... absolutely no originality
Discuss
I always want another fantasy game precisely because there are so many mediocre ones. Looking at that, of course I'm always going to be on my toes for someone to 'get it right,' so to speak.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
if AT LAUNCH they can't beat an existing produc, why'd anyone pick the inferior quality one over the one that is better and that they've already settled in, started making ties in community etc.
change, (and extra cost too) are already two negatives. add inferior quality and you have a no-go from anyone smart enough.
will it be better in 6 months or a year? great. I'll see you in 6 months and a year in the Trial, then.
I will answer your " why'd anyone pick the inferior quality" ...
Because they invested such a long time in pre-launch hype and "religious believing this is it..." before even setting foot in a game. There you get the real fanboys. The guys wanting, wanting, wanting to like a game that's not even published.
If you can find a game that's published and you like it, that's ok, that's perfect.
The problem is people are constantly "playing" games that are not even in Beta stages and are hyped by them through the roof (mostly because of a "promised" mechanic" or even simply "Lore").
Add the other side: all the ones that "theorise" games on forums only and you would even start to believe those too.
The problem always comes afterwards: the inevtiable inferior qualtiy that shines through.
It's a backfire and it ain't pretty. "I blame WOW". Of course you do: that blonde spoiled you to death.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
i went for capitalism because when u look at the first few mmorpg they were made with passion.nowadays the passion is lost in the big names and the ones with passion hae little resources or experience to make it.
Most of the MMO's are WoW clones, with no real adventure. Finally we got Mortal Online that is going their own way ... in the patch of Ultima Online. I am playing it now ... it's great.
No instances
Seamless world
Skill based as UO
Nice realistic graphics
Great dynamic crafting
PvP and full loot
You hit where you aim (hit boxes)
Fun and realistic melee and mounted combat with lots of skill
You know all these games, right. You are seeking a legitimate reason to publish a post. No need. We understand.
Aww how cute. Does lumping everyone else in your comment with you make you feel more secure in saying it? lol
I bet you didn't level with experience turned off, meanwhile maxing-out and upping professions, crafting your own gear before you even reached a level, and using a new dungeon finder and combine the newest trends in ANY of those games ... because simply ... you don't have ... the time to invest in one or two games anymore.
By the way....you act like those things are unique to WoW. ROLFMAO! Do you really THINK that?!! You can do alll that in assorted other games. So these features are awesome to you? Great! I think so too, but....I would prefer then in another game. AND....I have them in the game I'm playing right now. At least we can agree that it's nice to be able to DO that. So we agree on something....SHOCKER!
But actually....yes, yes I did craft all my gear ahead of time after my first level 80. No...I did not play with the xp turned off. What's the freaking point? It's still the same boring lack of fresh content over and over and over. If you're talking about PvP...I LOATHE WoW's style of PvP other than Wintergrasp, and would never DREAM of just running that shit over and over and over again. They ruined BGs when they "nerfed" AV long long ago. And furthermore....I play almost every game trial that comes out. A LOT of people do that because they are interested in the GENRE. And I have TONS of time. I'm disabled.
The core problem of mmorpg.com: ask a simple but very accurate question for a specific game and you don't get an answer on these boards from 99.9% because simply ... they don't experience ... the game at all.
Rahter one of the core problems at MMORPG.com....is people like YOU that think everyone MUST agree with them and can't have a decent conversation. YOU start slinging insults and sarcastic smears and then get all hot and bothered when someone throws one back at you. Grow up already.
BUT they do know the MMo's ... all of them. Yeah right.
NO, I do not "KNOW" all those games, however.....I played WoW from Nov 2004 to Feb 2010. I KNOW WoW. I watched (and played) through all of the horrible CRAP they have now done to it. For the entire last year that I played I tried and tried to convince my family to leave the game. Then, bless Blizzard's heart....they patched in the wonerful Looking For PuG tool (LFD is just a bullshit acronym). In a game that ALREADY had a community that rivaled the worst for rudeness in the game's genre. Yes, that is JUST what it took to make my son and partner FINALLY see the light. Because then they understood what I had been saying.. Finally they implemented a "feature" that further made the communtiy.....unaccountable for their horrendous behavior in any group situations. Ever so helpful.
You can say whatever you want to say about the games I've "played" (which incidentally includes games that I merely played TRIALS of, AND some I played for a long time), but WoW, EQ2 and UO.....THOSE three games I KNOW.
Too many MMOs out there that are fly by night indie companies have alot of quality control problems but lack real originallity and imersion. Many of the MMOs that are out there are just clones or knock offs of other markets. Warcraft was a knock off of Warhammer Fantasy by Gamesworkshop. (dont belive me do some research)
This is also why other games succede. Look at Eve, as much as the game isnt for me, it has done quite well for itself. It has a deep economic system, large expansive universe, and near endless possibilities of play. WWIIOL has a decent following too and has made it 10 years, which is longer than 80% of the games out there, it has done it with constant regular updates, deep imersion and going into a original MMO market.
If only someone would finally make a good "western" style sandbox MMO. Or even a Battletech MMO..... I would settle for Cyberpunk. But thats just my hopes and dreams.
Most of the MMO's are WoW clones, with no real adventure. Finally we got Mortal Online that is going their own way ... in the patch of Ultima Online. I am playing it now ... it's great.
No instances
Seamless world
Skill based as UO
Nice realistic graphics
Great dynamic crafting
PvP and full loot
You hit where you aim (hit boxes)
Fun and realistic melee and mounted combat with lots of skill
Most of the MMO's are WoW clones, with no real adventure. Finally we got Mortal Online that is going their own way ... in the patch of Ultima Online. I am playing it now ... it's great.
No instances
Seamless world
Skill based as UO
Nice realistic graphics
Great dynamic crafting
PvP and full loot
You hit where you aim (hit boxes)
Fun and realistic melee and mounted combat with lots of skill
Most of the MMO's are WoW clones, with no real adventure. Finally we got Mortal Online that is going their own way ... in the patch of Ultima Online. I am playing it now ... it's great.
No instances
Seamless world
Skill based as UO
Nice realistic graphics
Great dynamic crafting
PvP and full loot
You hit where you aim (hit boxes)
Fun and realistic melee and mounted combat with lots of skill
Archery and mounted archery
Large dungeons
No hand holding
Nights are dark
Dynamic weather
Tame any animal and sell them
Open a shop
It's own unique atmosphere
No handholding
Rated +18
MO is pretty theme park, plenty of hand holding and i found it quite linear. Sure its not wow but it's certainly not a true open sandbox either. I find Xsyon superior to MO/DF/DT/Wurm/
Capitalism. Development cost of games rose considerably with every new generation. In the same time the box prices remained the same, so companies need to sell considerably more copies to make profit. That forces them to appeal a broader audiece with a simpler taste.
MMOs are not dying, they are just leaving us old school gamers behind, and not because someone is evil or dumb, but because of these mechanims of Capitalism.
Capitalism. Development cost of games rose considerably with every new generation. In the same time the box prices remained the same, so companies need to sell considerably more copies to make profit. That forces them to appeal a broader audiece with a simpler taste.
MMOs are not dying, they are just leaving us old school gamers behind, and not because someone is evil or dumb, but because of these mechanims of Capitalism.
SOE was making tons off us with EQ in its heyday. 450k would still be pretty good numbers for NA subs, but no other themepark seems to get that many. Well besides WOW, which shot that numbers to smithereens. We wont even mention sandboxes, as their biggest title to date is 350k in NA subs....with many floundering at 30ish k or worse.
MMOs costs tons to make. Right there means you need a lot of subs. To get that the past has shown us the easiest way is thru a PVE focused game, and it either limits PVP, or it has none at all. FFA worldwide PVP is the quickest way to niche around IMO. The subs numbers seem to agree.
Before I leave this idea....EVE has a mechanism in-game to allow folks to trade in game currency for game time. It allows those with RL to exchange it legally in game for others money. This is one of the smartest moves I have seen by a MMO company, and a reason I believe CCPs game continues to grow.
Anywho...
We have seen companies capitalize on the market by selling hopes....yet delivering incomplete/shallow experiences. If a new themepark cant deliver the open-ness of EQ1(up to Kunark/Velious), coupled with at least as much/more content areas as it....then they shouldnt launch. That game launched 11 yrs ago....there isnt any excuse for not being on par.
Not even mentioning the polish end of things. Blizzard drove the point home with how important it is these days.
This isnt to say you cant have way-points this time around which allow for fast travel. Let folks discover them, then have a means for fast travels. When you take it all out, and make everything insta travel you destroy your virtual world. That is where a lot of magic to these games comes into play methinks. You dont need a virtual economic simulator, but there should be a virtual world of substance(sites to see, unique feel to areas that are filled with various content etc).
Not all themeparks are on rails....but the ones that have been seem to do really bad generally speaking.
This doesnt mean you cant include instancing. EQ1 was using instancing when I left. You went to a certain area, and from there you were transported into your instance. It wasnt accomplished from a cenral hub ala DDO.
As far as other complaints of EQ(time sinks)....you could still focus on grouping. First I would take the 6 man down to 3 or 4 to define a group. You take raids from 72/50/25 man down to 10. This lets folks make a couple of friends to do content with. If they dont wish to group, you allow them various persistent, and instanced areas to do content in.
Time sinks as far as death penalty? In single instances you could start them back at checkpoints when going thru content ala SPG. Losing levels could be very frustrating in EQ....especially if you were locked out of an area(Planes) due to level loss. I am sure a few folks did the ole rage-quit over them. You dont want to anger folks, but you dont want to just hand stuff out either. I would also suggest the scaling some games use for difficulty. This way everyone can see the content, just all cant get the top prizes.
Anyways some tangental ideas about stuff, as I am waiting on a download on my 360.
Just to summerize....I dont play sandbox MMOs...so I cant speak for them. As far as themepark/PVE games go though, I think you have to provide polished content that is balanced between persistent and instanced. If yuo cant give an experience better than EQ up to say Kunarkor Velious, then you really shouldnt be in the genre as folks arent likely to hang around(speak for PVE gamers).
Note....talking about PTP games...and not FTP.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
MO is pretty theme park, plenty of hand holding and i found it quite linear. Sure its not wow but it's certainly not a true open sandbox either. I find Xsyon superior to MO/DF/DT/Wurm/
WHAT? Xsyon? Really?! Sorry, but from what I have seen of Xsyon, it has alot of promise but from a developer who has worked in the past on another failed game with alot of promise. So not hyping Xsyon up much. MO even in its current state 40% done is better than Xsyon.
The fact he mentioned hand-holding and MO in the same sentence should raise a flag with you. Anyone who played that knows of the sheer amount of bitching caused by a distinct lack of directions and handholding. You need to do mad research to get into extracting/refining, even to figure out what skills to get prior in order to unlock the ones you actually want.
Granted I like the concept of Xsyon, being a Wurm player myself, but I can't take this guy seriously in the least bit.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Can't believe you threw capitalism in there. Wouldn't even be a gaming industry without capitalism.
Hu ? Of course we could have a gaming industry if we had communism. Why not ? Only programmers would probably have to organize it themselves what they want to program, and people wouldnt have to pay to play, and nobody could say what the final result would be.
Whether the game is fantasy, sci-fi, post apo doesn't matter if its buggy and unresponsive.
I have definitely proved I can live with a poor launch.
I have definitely proved I can live with UI problems.
Just as long as its Vanguard and the concept behind it is great and the amount of content is mindblowing.
In the end I gave up because of lack of players, not because of anything else. It sucked though that new highlevel content just added endless new grinds, instead of new amazing cool raid dungeons like Ancient Port Warehouse.
MMO's fail, imo, because of to much handholding and being to quest dependent and no new interesting solutions. Bugs will be fixed, but feats remains. If those feats aren't good, the whole game fails. So far imo Mortal Online is the most promising MMO the last 5 years, since Everquest1 and UO. To bad very few MMO comapines dare to develop MMO's not for the main market today.
I don't think the MMO genre is dying. I think folks here have overestimated it's importance in the gaming world and they expect too much.
There MMO games we play are a NICHE market. Console and hand held device games are THE market. Wouldn't you folks guess that only 2 or 3 % max of the games sold in the US might be online MMO games? They sell hundreds of millions of XBox, Wii. DS and PS games per year. MMO's are small change in the overall gaming picture.
We don't have other huge successes like WoW in this genre because there's not enough of us folks playing these kinds of games. WoW ,for instance, has 2+ million folks from the US playing it. There is probably another 2 million US folks playing all the other online P2P games combined. There's just not enough of us players to make huge successes out of every new game that comes out. Unless all 4 million of us just jumped ship every time a new game came out:)
So, I don't think we are a dying breed. The P2P numbers grow every year. There's not enough profit / customers in this genre to make the huge leaps and bounds in the technology field that you folks seem to desire. MMO's will evolve slower than console games simply because there's so much less profit involved here.
Comments
I have another question for you....
How many KNOW all this stuff and PLAYED with all these features and STILL don't like (or no longer like) WoW?
/raises hand
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Lack of originality... I say this because there MMOs that are set in historic or fantasy and shells out skills like a water pouring out of the hose.
APB and NFS World take it different. World for having very little skills and doesn't shell it out to all the other MMOs that have mountains and mountains of skills... why would I need that for? Individualism maybe? isn't working for me. Then there MMOs that try making new skills but ends up being a re hash or something else.
MMO is getting ruined by the mass popularity of WoW as the FOLLOWERS hype it up when it doesn't need to be hyped. I've played Warcraft 3 and I never heard of WoW until some passed away playing the game some 3 years after WoW release.
The OP forgot one option.
The ridiculous expectations and demands of players.
Everyone seeking "the perfect game" or trying to recapture the feeling they had in their first MMO expierence. People see one feature in a game they don't like and they go on a jihad against that game.
I love how people blame greed. They blame greed because they do not want to admit they are the problem. Anyone that ever pre-ordered a game is the problem...anyone that did not demand a free trial....anyone that bought a collector's edition with crap in it before knowing if the game was any good. These people are the problem. They blindly give their money and then blame the developer for making a crappy game. Guess want if I could shit in a box and sell it to you for money and tell you it was great to get you to buy it I would...why because you are a moron. Morons should not have money and should starve and die. Why protect the stupid instead milk them.
People should stand up and with their wallets make games prove themselves. Make them offer a free trial first and show the game is worth money. Do not throw your cash at something that might be crap, but you saw a pretty video or saw a fancy website saying how great it is going to be. If you do you are a sucker and deserve to be separated from your cash.
More power to the greedy developers making crap. Maybe if more of the whiners that give them money get disgruntled they will leave the MMO market and dry up the well for companies that are not making something quality to win people over.
Even a used car sales man lets you test drive the piece of crap he is trying to sell you.
One could say the sort of the same about the fanbois. They refuse to admit a games shortfalls to force a game to improve before selling their souls to it.
I think a quick look at your profile says it all ....
Quote: "Played"
Have played these games: Alganon, Allods Online, Anarchy Online, Atlantica Online, CABAL Online, Chaos Online, City of Heroes, CrimeCraft, Dark Age of Camelot, Disney's Toontown Online, Dofus, Dragonica Online, Duels, Dungeon Runners, Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited, Entropia Universe, EVE Online, Fallen Earth, Free Realms, Furcadia, FusionFall, Guild Wars, Hello Kitty Online, Last Chaos, Lord of the Rings Online, Luminary: Rise of the Goonzu, Mabinogi, MapleStory, Mythos, Perfect World International, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Pirates of the Caribbean Online, PlaneShift, Ragnarok Online, Rappelz, ROSE Online, Rubies of Eventide, Runes of Magic, Runescape, Second Life, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World: Granada Espada, The Chronicles of Spellborn, Tibia, Trickster Online, Ultima Online, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Wakfu, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Wizard 101, World of Warcraft and Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates
You know all these games, right. You are seeking a legitimate reason to publish a post. No need. We understand.
I bet you didn't level with experience turned off, meanwhile maxing-out and upping professions, crafting your own gear before you even reached a level, and using a new dungeon finder and combine the newest trends in ANY of those games ... because simply ... you don't have ... the time to invest in one or two games anymore.
The core problem of mmorpg.com: ask a simple but very accurate question for a specific game and you don't get an answer on these boards from 99.9% because simply ... they don't experience ... the game at all.
BUT they do know the MMo's ... all of them. Yeah right.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
I always want another fantasy game precisely because there are so many mediocre ones. Looking at that, of course I'm always going to be on my toes for someone to 'get it right,' so to speak.
Missing the reasons MMOs fail...
Buggy launches
Poor feel from UI
Whether the game is fantasy, sci-fi, post apo doesn't matter if its buggy and unresponsive.
I will answer your " why'd anyone pick the inferior quality" ...
Because they invested such a long time in pre-launch hype and "religious believing this is it..." before even setting foot in a game. There you get the real fanboys. The guys wanting, wanting, wanting to like a game that's not even published.
If you can find a game that's published and you like it, that's ok, that's perfect.
The problem is people are constantly "playing" games that are not even in Beta stages and are hyped by them through the roof (mostly because of a "promised" mechanic" or even simply "Lore").
Add the other side: all the ones that "theorise" games on forums only and you would even start to believe those too.
The problem always comes afterwards: the inevtiable inferior qualtiy that shines through.
It's a backfire and it ain't pretty. "I blame WOW". Of course you do: that blonde spoiled you to death.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
i went for capitalism because when u look at the first few mmorpg they were made with passion.nowadays the passion is lost in the big names and the ones with passion hae little resources or experience to make it.
Most of the MMO's are WoW clones, with no real adventure. Finally we got Mortal Online that is going their own way ... in the patch of Ultima Online. I am playing it now ... it's great.
No instances
Seamless world
Skill based as UO
Nice realistic graphics
Great dynamic crafting
PvP and full loot
You hit where you aim (hit boxes)
Fun and realistic melee and mounted combat with lots of skill
Archery and mounted archery
Large dungeons
No hand holding
Nights are dark
Dynamic weather
Tame any animal and sell them
Open a shop
It's own unique atmosphere
No handholding
Rated +18
NO, I do not "KNOW" all those games, however.....I played WoW from Nov 2004 to Feb 2010. I KNOW WoW. I watched (and played) through all of the horrible CRAP they have now done to it. For the entire last year that I played I tried and tried to convince my family to leave the game. Then, bless Blizzard's heart....they patched in the wonerful Looking For PuG tool (LFD is just a bullshit acronym). In a game that ALREADY had a community that rivaled the worst for rudeness in the game's genre. Yes, that is JUST what it took to make my son and partner FINALLY see the light. Because then they understood what I had been saying.. Finally they implemented a "feature" that further made the communtiy.....unaccountable for their horrendous behavior in any group situations. Ever so helpful.
You can say whatever you want to say about the games I've "played" (which incidentally includes games that I merely played TRIALS of, AND some I played for a long time), but WoW, EQ2 and UO.....THOSE three games I KNOW.
(Mod Edit)
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Too many MMOs out there that are fly by night indie companies have alot of quality control problems but lack real originallity and imersion. Many of the MMOs that are out there are just clones or knock offs of other markets. Warcraft was a knock off of Warhammer Fantasy by Gamesworkshop. (dont belive me do some research)
This is also why other games succede. Look at Eve, as much as the game isnt for me, it has done quite well for itself. It has a deep economic system, large expansive universe, and near endless possibilities of play. WWIIOL has a decent following too and has made it 10 years, which is longer than 80% of the games out there, it has done it with constant regular updates, deep imersion and going into a original MMO market.
If only someone would finally make a good "western" style sandbox MMO. Or even a Battletech MMO..... I would settle for Cyberpunk. But thats just my hopes and dreams.
So much crap, so little quality.
Good. This one i can avoid.
Legit?
"Yea, I've been drinking again.."
MO is pretty theme park, plenty of hand holding and i found it quite linear. Sure its not wow but it's certainly not a true open sandbox either. I find Xsyon superior to MO/DF/DT/Wurm/
Capitalism. Development cost of games rose considerably with every new generation. In the same time the box prices remained the same, so companies need to sell considerably more copies to make profit. That forces them to appeal a broader audiece with a simpler taste.
MMOs are not dying, they are just leaving us old school gamers behind, and not because someone is evil or dumb, but because of these mechanims of Capitalism.
See article: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/281632/Escapist-article-on-why-present-games-are-not-interesting-for-veteran-gamers.html
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Agreed.
SOE was making tons off us with EQ in its heyday. 450k would still be pretty good numbers for NA subs, but no other themepark seems to get that many. Well besides WOW, which shot that numbers to smithereens. We wont even mention sandboxes, as their biggest title to date is 350k in NA subs....with many floundering at 30ish k or worse.
MMOs costs tons to make. Right there means you need a lot of subs. To get that the past has shown us the easiest way is thru a PVE focused game, and it either limits PVP, or it has none at all. FFA worldwide PVP is the quickest way to niche around IMO. The subs numbers seem to agree.
Before I leave this idea....EVE has a mechanism in-game to allow folks to trade in game currency for game time. It allows those with RL to exchange it legally in game for others money. This is one of the smartest moves I have seen by a MMO company, and a reason I believe CCPs game continues to grow.
Anywho...
We have seen companies capitalize on the market by selling hopes....yet delivering incomplete/shallow experiences. If a new themepark cant deliver the open-ness of EQ1(up to Kunark/Velious), coupled with at least as much/more content areas as it....then they shouldnt launch. That game launched 11 yrs ago....there isnt any excuse for not being on par.
Not even mentioning the polish end of things. Blizzard drove the point home with how important it is these days.
This isnt to say you cant have way-points this time around which allow for fast travel. Let folks discover them, then have a means for fast travels. When you take it all out, and make everything insta travel you destroy your virtual world. That is where a lot of magic to these games comes into play methinks. You dont need a virtual economic simulator, but there should be a virtual world of substance(sites to see, unique feel to areas that are filled with various content etc).
Not all themeparks are on rails....but the ones that have been seem to do really bad generally speaking.
This doesnt mean you cant include instancing. EQ1 was using instancing when I left. You went to a certain area, and from there you were transported into your instance. It wasnt accomplished from a cenral hub ala DDO.
As far as other complaints of EQ(time sinks)....you could still focus on grouping. First I would take the 6 man down to 3 or 4 to define a group. You take raids from 72/50/25 man down to 10. This lets folks make a couple of friends to do content with. If they dont wish to group, you allow them various persistent, and instanced areas to do content in.
Time sinks as far as death penalty? In single instances you could start them back at checkpoints when going thru content ala SPG. Losing levels could be very frustrating in EQ....especially if you were locked out of an area(Planes) due to level loss. I am sure a few folks did the ole rage-quit over them. You dont want to anger folks, but you dont want to just hand stuff out either. I would also suggest the scaling some games use for difficulty. This way everyone can see the content, just all cant get the top prizes.
Anyways some tangental ideas about stuff, as I am waiting on a download on my 360.
Just to summerize....I dont play sandbox MMOs...so I cant speak for them. As far as themepark/PVE games go though, I think you have to provide polished content that is balanced between persistent and instanced. If yuo cant give an experience better than EQ up to say Kunarkor Velious, then you really shouldnt be in the genre as folks arent likely to hang around(speak for PVE gamers).
Note....talking about PTP games...and not FTP.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
So much crap, so little quality.
The fact he mentioned hand-holding and MO in the same sentence should raise a flag with you. Anyone who played that knows of the sheer amount of bitching caused by a distinct lack of directions and handholding. You need to do mad research to get into extracting/refining, even to figure out what skills to get prior in order to unlock the ones you actually want.
Granted I like the concept of Xsyon, being a Wurm player myself, but I can't take this guy seriously in the least bit.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Hu ? Of course we could have a gaming industry if we had communism. Why not ? Only programmers would probably have to organize it themselves what they want to program, and people wouldnt have to pay to play, and nobody could say what the final result would be.
I have definitely proved I can live with a poor launch.
I have definitely proved I can live with UI problems.
Just as long as its Vanguard and the concept behind it is great and the amount of content is mindblowing.
In the end I gave up because of lack of players, not because of anything else. It sucked though that new highlevel content just added endless new grinds, instead of new amazing cool raid dungeons like Ancient Port Warehouse.
MMO's fail, imo, because of to much handholding and being to quest dependent and no new interesting solutions. Bugs will be fixed, but feats remains. If those feats aren't good, the whole game fails. So far imo Mortal Online is the most promising MMO the last 5 years, since Everquest1 and UO. To bad very few MMO comapines dare to develop MMO's not for the main market today.
I don't think the MMO genre is dying. I think folks here have overestimated it's importance in the gaming world and they expect too much.
There MMO games we play are a NICHE market. Console and hand held device games are THE market. Wouldn't you folks guess that only 2 or 3 % max of the games sold in the US might be online MMO games? They sell hundreds of millions of XBox, Wii. DS and PS games per year. MMO's are small change in the overall gaming picture.
We don't have other huge successes like WoW in this genre because there's not enough of us folks playing these kinds of games. WoW ,for instance, has 2+ million folks from the US playing it. There is probably another 2 million US folks playing all the other online P2P games combined. There's just not enough of us players to make huge successes out of every new game that comes out. Unless all 4 million of us just jumped ship every time a new game came out:)
So, I don't think we are a dying breed. The P2P numbers grow every year. There's not enough profit / customers in this genre to make the huge leaps and bounds in the technology field that you folks seem to desire. MMO's will evolve slower than console games simply because there's so much less profit involved here.
Just my 2 cents!!
Lori
How can a growing genre be dying? Millions of the worlds smallest fiddles are playing for the OP as we speak...