We don't have other huge successes like WoW in this genre because there's not enough of us folks playing these kinds of games.
I don't think we have another huge success like WoW because the playing field is a lot bigger now, not just with MMOs but the current generation of consoles too. I mean three solid choices, plus the handhelds. There a lot more game releases too, in the MMO genre and others, compared to what was coming out around WoW's release. This is not a bad thing actually. Choice is good for the customer, and there are a lot of choices out there.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
We don't have other huge successes like WoW in this genre because there's not enough of us folks playing these kinds of games.
I don't think we have another huge success like WoW because the playing field is a lot bigger now, not just with MMOs but the current generation of consoles too. I mean three solid choices, plus the handhelds. There a lot more game releases too, in the MMO genre and others, compared to what was coming out around WoW's release. This is not a bad thing actually. Choice is good for the customer, and there are a lot of choices out there.
Well, I'd say WoW is the Ford Model T of the genre. Everyone still think Model T is the most selling car of all time, but it is far from it, the Toyota Carina holds that title. Future games will sell a lot more than WoW, but they will most likely not be remembered like WoW will be, mostly becauce WoW is the pioneer of having multi-million subs.
How about, the genre is evolving and the niche people that it appealed too are furrious that others are being allowed to play with their ball.
Really there are more subs, more games, and even if many are similar, each title has incremental evolution.
Exactly, the genre moved from "every color as long as it's black" to more variation, but also more standardization of certain common features. Modern cars all come with power steering, ECU's, ABS, injection, left foot clutch, starter engine and so forth.
Many want to fight progress, but luckily they are usually ignored by those providing the products.
How about, the genre is evolving and the niche people that it appealed too are furrious that others are being allowed to play with their ball.
Really there are more subs, more games, and even if many are similar, each title has incremental evolution.
well 'evolving' would not be a word I would agree with but I do agree with everything else you are saying. Games (not just MMO's) are branching out more and more to the mainstream which is predictable. This means games are moving into less 'hard core' gamers which means two things.
1. appealing to gamers who are less intrested in complexity and havent had much expsoure to systems and genre's that core gamers have already been exposed to and..
2. allowing for higher priced firms to get involved that look more toward maximizing profit and reducing development cost per volume. This often involves expensive PR moves that are very clever at lowering the expecations of the gamers without the gamers being aware of it mostly thru advertising and some level of market control. (aka if you options are more controlled its less likely gamers will fully understand the possibilties they are missing). Additionally, PR companies know that targeting younger players have a better chance of creating loyal customers becuase what you like over your life time is usually formed at younger ages. This is why we see so many games with near cartoonish colors.
What is somewhat ironic about all this is that as the games get larger and more and more firms get involved in its development, production and distrubution the more people are involved in milking money out of each other thus the cost goes up.
An example of what I say above is consultants in the corporate world (I am a consulant). A consulant firm does not have the monatary intrests of their client at heart. The goal of the consulting firm is to maximize their own profits (which by the way they are legally required to do) so as a result consultants make money off of client inneffeceny becuase they can bill more hours becuase innefficeny requires more work on the part of the consultant. This is also why more and more companies are not intrested in the 'management' services consultanting companies provide and charge for. Instead the client perfers to manage the consulants on site which is more of the approach given to a contractor but at a price that is uncalled for.
how about that!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
How about, the genre is evolving and the niche people that it appealed too are furrious that others are being allowed to play with their ball.
Really there are more subs, more games, and even if many are similar, each title has incremental evolution.
Gaming in general has only recently become main stream. I see no point in trying to marginalize people, and I think it adds nothing to the discussion. If someone wants to voice their displeasure, let them. I will not dismiss them anymore than I would dismiss the fans of WoW. I do think the OP is mistaken in the belief that the MMO market is dying. I do think it is overcrowding, that there are trends that could threaten the health of the industry, but far from dying.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I''d rather not play a new fantasy game, if MMOs are becoming less popular its cause there is too many god-damned fantasy games and no variety! I want to play something different! i don't care if its ommpa-loompa black jack world, just stop with the overexaggerated hair, armor, high-heel warriors, and overall JRPG drama graphics *shoves nail in eye*
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis--- NZXT Phantom 410 Case Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0 Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
Hard to believe seriously... absolutely no originality
Discuss
I don't get these type of topics.
MMO's population is bigger then ever, the only thing I could say is that many just do not appeal to me personaly, which would NEVER mean the genre is dying, just not appealing to me.
Or is it that some people asume just because they don't like certain MMO's that it suddenly means the genre is dying??
MMO market grows rapidly each year and yet it is dying...shocking news...
The dying thing is You, not the MMO, those are evolving.
211 people are saying otherwise obviously. It might be because they can read and understand more than a thread title sentence.
Seriously? Did you really just post that? 211 people... Are they some sort of authority on the matter? I mean I hear all the time that having alot of subscribers doesn't make a MMO game good. Selling alot of music doesn't make an artist good. Selling alot of hamburgers doesn't make your food good. Selling alot of cars doesn't mean your car is good, etc etc.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
MMO market grows rapidly each year and yet it is dying...shocking news...
The dying thing is You, not the MMO, those are evolving.
211 people are saying otherwise obviously. It might be because they can read and understand more than a thread title sentence.
Seriously? Did you really just post that? 211 people... Are they some sort of authority on the matter? I mean I hear all the time that having alot of subscribers doesn't make a MMO game good. Selling alot of music doesn't make an artist good. Selling alot of hamburgers doesn't make your food good. Selling alot of cars doesn't mean your car is good, etc etc.
So if certain games/movies/cars/hamburgers don't appeal to some person it means that that is dying?? To me it just means they are not appealing. Are games evolving, sure they are, are the evolving in the way I personaly would like to see them evolve, No they are not, still doesn't mean the genre is dying.
Yeah, im really not sure how a genre can be dying that has more games/players now that ever before in history, with more being developed all the time. Im not saying they are all quality.
Most games that supposedly "failed" still have thousands or hundreds of thousands of players.
Are there alot of bad games, sure there are...but there are plenty of bad single player games, console games and such too..but people still buy and play them.
Hard to believe seriously... absolutely no originality
Discuss
So you've grown bored with MMO's and have now labelled them all as failures? would this be a correct assessment of your attitude.
The MMO genre is more popular than when it came floundering into the limelight back in the late 1990's, more ppl are playing now than was ever thought possible, back then ppl argued that the genre could not support more than 3 MMO's and where horrified to see yet more being developed, it was the end of the world as far as these short sighted ppl where concerned, and yet here we are today, with millions of subscribers playing hundreds of MMO's.
The MMO genre is more popular than when it came floundering into the limelight back in the late 1990's, more ppl are playing now than was ever thought possible, back then ppl argued that the genre could not support more than 3 MMO's and where horrified to see yet more being developed, it was the end of the world as far as these short sighted ppl where concerned, and yet here we are today, with millions of subscribers playing hundreds of MMO's.
Yep the MMO genre sure is dying!
I don't think its fair to look back on history, in any scenario, and calously claim that anyone who didn't foresee the future as it is now to be sort-sighted. Things have changed a lot in a relatively short amonut of time. I doubt any of us are going to foresee what is to come perfectly either.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
many games seems to try to gather all kind of players and with that they will fail. it takes time for a game to become a thing that everyone can enjoy.
so stop sell out and make a freaking mmo that is uber hardcore. and make it damn good.
and then you can slowly start to sell out - not before you have pleased the first fans ofc.
I put down Lack of Originality but I think the real problem is over extending your resources. More often than not the developers are too ambitious. Not only do you need to program everything so it runs smooth but you have to test to make sure it is fun after thousands of hours of play time.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
I wouldn't say that the industry is dying the failure of a lot of newer MMO's has a simple origin. The MMO market is tricky to develop for MMO gamers are far less forgiving of developers compared to console gamers. After all we continue to pay for these games after buying the software. Many promising MMO's released either with technical errors or obviously partly finished content. I don't know if the suspected that the MMO gamers would forgive them or not by releasing the games before they were ready or couldn't continue development, but they failed because of this. MMO's are expensive to develop, take time to produce, must be well polished, and have completed content or they are doomed to fail.
Comments
I don't think we have another huge success like WoW because the playing field is a lot bigger now, not just with MMOs but the current generation of consoles too. I mean three solid choices, plus the handhelds. There a lot more game releases too, in the MMO genre and others, compared to what was coming out around WoW's release. This is not a bad thing actually. Choice is good for the customer, and there are a lot of choices out there.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I see no option for "The MMO genre is not dying".
I'm free on Friday.
Well, I'd say WoW is the Ford Model T of the genre. Everyone still think Model T is the most selling car of all time, but it is far from it, the Toyota Carina holds that title. Future games will sell a lot more than WoW, but they will most likely not be remembered like WoW will be, mostly becauce WoW is the pioneer of having multi-million subs.
A growing genre is not dying.
How about, the genre is evolving and the niche people that it appealed too are furrious that others are being allowed to play with their ball.
Really there are more subs, more games, and even if many are similar, each title has incremental evolution.
Exactly, the genre moved from "every color as long as it's black" to more variation, but also more standardization of certain common features. Modern cars all come with power steering, ECU's, ABS, injection, left foot clutch, starter engine and so forth.
Many want to fight progress, but luckily they are usually ignored by those providing the products.
well 'evolving' would not be a word I would agree with but I do agree with everything else you are saying. Games (not just MMO's) are branching out more and more to the mainstream which is predictable. This means games are moving into less 'hard core' gamers which means two things.
1. appealing to gamers who are less intrested in complexity and havent had much expsoure to systems and genre's that core gamers have already been exposed to and..
2. allowing for higher priced firms to get involved that look more toward maximizing profit and reducing development cost per volume. This often involves expensive PR moves that are very clever at lowering the expecations of the gamers without the gamers being aware of it mostly thru advertising and some level of market control. (aka if you options are more controlled its less likely gamers will fully understand the possibilties they are missing). Additionally, PR companies know that targeting younger players have a better chance of creating loyal customers becuase what you like over your life time is usually formed at younger ages. This is why we see so many games with near cartoonish colors.
What is somewhat ironic about all this is that as the games get larger and more and more firms get involved in its development, production and distrubution the more people are involved in milking money out of each other thus the cost goes up.
An example of what I say above is consultants in the corporate world (I am a consulant). A consulant firm does not have the monatary intrests of their client at heart. The goal of the consulting firm is to maximize their own profits (which by the way they are legally required to do) so as a result consultants make money off of client inneffeceny becuase they can bill more hours becuase innefficeny requires more work on the part of the consultant. This is also why more and more companies are not intrested in the 'management' services consultanting companies provide and charge for. Instead the client perfers to manage the consulants on site which is more of the approach given to a contractor but at a price that is uncalled for.
how about that!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Gaming in general has only recently become main stream. I see no point in trying to marginalize people, and I think it adds nothing to the discussion. If someone wants to voice their displeasure, let them. I will not dismiss them anymore than I would dismiss the fans of WoW. I do think the OP is mistaken in the belief that the MMO market is dying. I do think it is overcrowding, that there are trends that could threaten the health of the industry, but far from dying.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I''d rather not play a new fantasy game, if MMOs are becoming less popular its cause there is too many god-damned fantasy games and no variety! I want to play something different! i don't care if its ommpa-loompa black jack world, just stop with the overexaggerated hair, armor, high-heel warriors, and overall JRPG drama graphics *shoves nail in eye*
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
NZXT Phantom 410 Case
Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
I don't get these type of topics.
MMO's population is bigger then ever, the only thing I could say is that many just do not appeal to me personaly, which would NEVER mean the genre is dying, just not appealing to me.
Or is it that some people asume just because they don't like certain MMO's that it suddenly means the genre is dying??
Seriously? Did you really just post that? 211 people... Are they some sort of authority on the matter? I mean I hear all the time that having alot of subscribers doesn't make a MMO game good. Selling alot of music doesn't make an artist good. Selling alot of hamburgers doesn't make your food good. Selling alot of cars doesn't mean your car is good, etc etc.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
So if certain games/movies/cars/hamburgers don't appeal to some person it means that that is dying?? To me it just means they are not appealing. Are games evolving, sure they are, are the evolving in the way I personaly would like to see them evolve, No they are not, still doesn't mean the genre is dying.
Yeah, im really not sure how a genre can be dying that has more games/players now that ever before in history, with more being developed all the time. Im not saying they are all quality.
Most games that supposedly "failed" still have thousands or hundreds of thousands of players.
Are there alot of bad games, sure there are...but there are plenty of bad single player games, console games and such too..but people still buy and play them.
So you've grown bored with MMO's and have now labelled them all as failures? would this be a correct assessment of your attitude.
The MMO genre is more popular than when it came floundering into the limelight back in the late 1990's, more ppl are playing now than was ever thought possible, back then ppl argued that the genre could not support more than 3 MMO's and where horrified to see yet more being developed, it was the end of the world as far as these short sighted ppl where concerned, and yet here we are today, with millions of subscribers playing hundreds of MMO's.
Yep the MMO genre sure is dying!
I don't think its fair to look back on history, in any scenario, and calously claim that anyone who didn't foresee the future as it is now to be sort-sighted. Things have changed a lot in a relatively short amonut of time. I doubt any of us are going to foresee what is to come perfectly either.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
many games seems to try to gather all kind of players and with that they will fail. it takes time for a game to become a thing that everyone can enjoy.
so stop sell out and make a freaking mmo that is uber hardcore. and make it damn good.
and then you can slowly start to sell out - not before you have pleased the first fans ofc.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
I put down Lack of Originality but I think the real problem is over extending your resources. More often than not the developers are too ambitious. Not only do you need to program everything so it runs smooth but you have to test to make sure it is fun after thousands of hours of play time.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
most people dont want to kill rats 6 hours a day to get to the real fun of a game.
STO is a good example of why the genre is dying.
I wouldn't say that the industry is dying the failure of a lot of newer MMO's has a simple origin. The MMO market is tricky to develop for MMO gamers are far less forgiving of developers compared to console gamers. After all we continue to pay for these games after buying the software. Many promising MMO's released either with technical errors or obviously partly finished content. I don't know if the suspected that the MMO gamers would forgive them or not by releasing the games before they were ready or couldn't continue development, but they failed because of this. MMO's are expensive to develop, take time to produce, must be well polished, and have completed content or they are doomed to fail.