I love FFXI but not adding optional PvP(like BGs, arena, duels) that isn't pointless(like Ballista and Brenner are)is just lazy. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to /duel someone while we were waiting for our party to fill up/show up or something.
yes leave it for the hardcore ffxi people, who get the huge gratifictation of going on a journey for 5 hours for 1 quest. Yes leave it to the hardcore ffxi who get that sense of accomplishment for camping a NM for hours on end. Yes leave it the hardcore ffxi people to wait in Jeanuo for a party for somthing slowly realizing that the most populated realm only has a max of 2000 people on a good day. Guess people got bored of all the b/s.
And from that video I want to quote this part most:
---
""I am an adventurer of Vana'Diel", She said.
Of course. I am one too, I thought.
However, her idea of an "adventurer" and mine were very different.
[Valkurm was fun. We didn't know our left from our right, thinking together we found the
way.]
[But then we went to Jeuno, doing the same thing everyday. We didn't have any spare
time.]
[Because I got teleports, I thought we could all travel the world. But everyone was
caught up with leveling...]
[I wanted to see more of the world. There has to be places we have yet to discover. I
thought it would be good if we could share that together]
[I still remember when we saw that rainbow in La Theine, I wanted to expierence that
again, with everyone...]
When I heard this I was shocked.
I was touched when we first got to Jeuno.
But after that, did finding a new place matter to me?
When I first came to a place, I just thought of it as a new hunting ground.
The stone monuments, which detail the history of each area, was just a means to finish
the quest for the Crawler's Nest map.
When did I forget what being an adventurer meant?"
---
Exploiring the world together, seeing it as an adventure.
A lot of players of today don't want an mmoRPG, they just want a MMOG, with quick combat, quick rewards. Story they don't read, the just want the reward.
Well for me the reward is the fun I have with the people while doing it, and enjoying the story SE has written for us.
This is something not everyone will like, and there is nothing wrong with that fact, but please, let people who do enjoy it have their fun and look for a game were you can have the things you like. Then everyone is happy.
And from that video I want to quote this part most:
---
""I am an adventurer of Vana'Diel", She said.
Of course. I am one too, I thought.
However, her idea of an "adventurer" and mine were very different.
[Valkurm was fun. We didn't know our left from our right, thinking together we found the
way.]
[But then we went to Jeuno, doing the same thing everyday. We didn't have any spare
time.]
[Because I got teleports, I thought we could all travel the world. But everyone was
caught up with leveling...]
[I wanted to see more of the world. There has to be places we have yet to discover. I
thought it would be good if we could share that together]
[I still remember when we saw that rainbow in La Theine, I wanted to expierence that
again, with everyone...]
When I heard this I was shocked.
I was touched when we first got to Jeuno.
But after that, did finding a new place matter to me?
When I first came to a place, I just thought of it as a new hunting ground.
The stone monuments, which detail the history of each area, was just a means to finish
the quest for the Crawler's Nest map.
When did I forget what being an adventurer meant?"
Nice video. It really makes you wonder how far these mmorpg are from that sense of adventuring. It's all about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
Nice video. It really makes you wonder how far these mmorpg are from that sense of adventuring. It's all about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
Which is why most people can't adapt and will find XIV lackluster. It's not always about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Nice video. It really makes you wonder how far these mmorpg are from that sense of adventuring. It's all about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
Which is why most people can't adapt and will find XIV lackluster. It's not always about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
But FFXI suffered too from this. Camping for hours a mob or farming for days in a place so you can be higher level enough to explore other places.
It all comes down to what peoples aim in a game. That video was the perfect example of how players interests shift while progressing. Only that girl in the video hold true to what that game should had been. The others become hunting machines. I always have that adventuring spirit when I first create a character. A new world there for me to explore but I always end up in following a single trail, killing mobs so I can be able to go in the next area to kill more mobs. Getting that shiny purple so I can group with others to get more shiny things. All mmorpg suffer from this, some maybe less than others.
But FFXI suffered too from this. Camping for hours a mob or farming for days in a place so you can be higher level enough to explore other places.
It all comes down to what peoples aim in a game. That video was the perfect example of how players interests shift while progressing. Only that girl in the video hold true to what that game should had been. The others become hunting machines. I always have that adventuring spirit when I first create a character. A new world there for me to explore but I always end up in following a single trail, killing mobs so I can be able to go in the next area to kill more mobs. Getting that shiny purple so I can group with others to get more shiny things. All mmorpg suffer from this, some maybe less than others.
Yes, XI suffered because of those things, but I don't think it has anything to do with what we're talking about here.
Most of us started aiming for lootz and leveling became a grind after a while.. but that said, should we skip the "adventuring" part altogether simply because it'll wear off after some time? I think it should be treasured for as long as possible, whatever happens later doesn't matter. In the best case once the feeling has worn off, the player quits and remembers the times he had with a warm thoughts, instead of aiming for epic lewtz until getting burned out.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Had a wonderful adventure when I played ffxi too but I started playing the game alone because all the friends I had played wow....
While leveling and wandering in new zones I had a lot of fun even grinding the birds (sorry forgot the name) to get beads to trade for rep was something I enjoyed because unlike most mmos you had the fear of death of an "elite" mob came near you.
After a while playing and was on my 20s I was in the capital city and received a /tell to join a linkshell that's where a small part of the adventure started developing.
I was having fun leveling, unlock jobs just for the sake of having them but not using them, visit new places were you could have been 1 shot killed by mobs just to get a teleport or maps THAT's a pure adventure.
Had fun doing some bosses with them helping me finish some of the story quest it was fun.
But the problem was in the linkshell I was the only one low level and all of them had many 75 jobs and had things to do to get gear, finish quests and such so I began joining random groups to level up so I could move on forward and that's when I started losing the sense of adventure but more fighting mobs to get gear,money and level so I could go some were else to get better drops and such.
Stopped helping people in Jueno when they tried making gropes my focus now was to reach lvl 75...
Finally reached Jueno a little accomplishment and joy filled my heart reaching this hard place. Started doing some quests just for the sake of the story not for the loot (apart of the one to get a partner with you) but the urge to level was starting to appear again when some of the quests were to hard to complete myself and the linkshell I was in always had something to do and couldn't help me all the time.
So the struggle to level started again but this time I was spending lots of hours to get a group to kill monsters for exp and afterwards not staying there a lot.
People started to demand stuff in the game like I was trying to level as sam/thf but some one group specially ordered me to change sub to war even if it was only lvl 10 because it is better or else they would kick me, I didn't want to change sub so I left and waitied in Jueno for several hours for some other group and gave up and logged off.
I began saying to myself I'm paying a sub to wait for 3-5 hours to finally get in a group every single time and I began losing interest in the game and it was making me turn into a basement guy, said to the linkshell I was leaving the game and slowly left with a sad feeling.
I started playing the game when wow was on burning crusade and in a few months was going to launch lich king population on ffxi was not one of the greatest but you could still find around 10 people in the lower maps killing monsters but not so much in jeuno and higher.
Now I'll try to join ffxiv when they launch and wishing they leave the sense of adventure ffxi had this time I'll try to not join late and risk on finding few people to enjoy the game with specially since some friends are going to try it also.
Thanks for the youtube link it made me remember the fun I had when I played the game.
What good is MMORPG, which is multi-player game without PVP? You can do all your PVE stuff in offline game.
Anyway - if no-PVP is confirmed, according to developers statement, then i guess FF is not on my watch list
its about perception, to me PvP in MMOs is just utterly worthless. you have all these ppl in a game and all you want to do is kill them? if care to do PvP I play FPS games for 30ish min on rare occations, they are way more fast paced and over all is just better action games.
find it absolutely boring to win because had better gear or higher lvl than the opponent, no to me MMOs are about cooperation, and reaching the common goal - whatever your guild would set as the common goal, be it roleplaying, run playermade events or kill the big meanies. Ive never tried any PvP in a MMO and enjoyed it, even if Id win - sure its fun to win, but never got me excited.
Sure is fun to win in MMO because you had better gear than your opponent, your opponent was lower level than you, you had more friends than him, or you were playing a better class than his.
If PvE is pointless in MMO's and PvP is like that, the whole genre is just flawed to the core.
Glad this is not the case though, except for PvP.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Sure is fun to win in MMO because you had better gear than your opponent, your opponent was lower level than you, you had more friends than him, or you were playing a better class than his.
If PvE is pointless in MMO's and PvP is like that, the whole genre is just flawed to the core.
Glad this is not the case though, except for PvP.
I've got this funny feeling that many of the posters on this site have played next to zero sports throughout the course of their lives. We're talking kids with parents that forbade them to play dodgeball ffs. Grow some skin boys and girls!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sure is fun to win in MMO because you had better gear than your opponent, your opponent was lower level than you, you had more friends than him, or you were playing a better class than his.
If PvE is pointless in MMO's and PvP is like that, the whole genre is just flawed to the core.
Glad this is not the case though, except for PvP.
I've got this funny feeling that many of the posters on this site have played next to zero sports throughout the course of their lives. We're talking kids with parents that forbade them to play dodgeball ffs. Grow some skin boys and girls!
Sports are, in essence on, a level playing field. In sports talent, endurance and luck determine the outcome, not the fact that someone bought the newest Nike's. The sports analogy better fits FPS not MMOs. MMO's will never be on a level playing field due to the nature of the game, there will always be someone with better gear or bands of gankers running around. There is no such thing as a fair fight. Your analogy is flawed and not at all aplicable to the situation on hand.
The #1 reason not to have PVP in FFXIV for me is class balance. I want my spell caster to have at least one "Oh $@#&;" spell in his or her arsenal, something that completely decimates the enemies. How can you balance that against a sword and board character in PVP? PVP class balancing waters down the game and takes the flavor out of the individual classes in favor of a magic dps/survivability ratio.
Seems to me the way the classes are set up and being able to equip any spell from any class up to 30, that PVP would be more balanced than most games.
I'd enjoy going to PVP when i'm bored of instances, crafting, and what not. More options to keep playing one game rather than having to get my fix playing multiple ones.
Seems to me the way the classes are set up and being able to equip any spell from any class up to 30, that PVP would be more balanced than most games.
I'd enjoy going to PVP when i'm bored of instances, crafting, and what not. More options to keep playing one game rather than having to get my fix playing multiple ones.
And there will be an option to PvP, down the road. Or even earlier than that, depending on what the colosseum in Ul'Dah does.
But ya, side activity is what it is.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Thats a real shame, because even for all the players that dont like pvp. What exactly do you do once u hit max lvl?
I mean, there is no point in getting legendary gear from epic bosses cuz ur not competing with anyone right?... right???
But just to be fair, some will say "but i like raiding and collecting itemz".
....
so lets say you do get all the gears, u can 1 shot monsters now,
GOOD JOB ...
you know what happens to my ps3 games after i hit max lvl or beat it?... i trade it in.
im afraid with all the games coming out FFXIV will fail.
but if one doesn't care for pvp then they dont' care about competing against another in combat. It's a moot point.
More often than not, people who aren['t into pvp concentrate on other aspects of the game. Whether it's raiding, role playing, crafting, socializing, making alts, maybe a bit of controlled pvp here and there, etc.
You are trying to make an argument for something that is not recognized as worthwhile for a segment of the mmo population.
Just as fans of more hardcore pvp games bristle at anyone asking for pve servers or safe zones I think there is an equal reaction from people who want to experience a world for the story and environments while doing so in a social manner.
I don't understand why people on both sides of the equation can't understand that people are different.
Maybe this is why humanity never learns from its mistakes.
There's nothing wrong with having different tastes, the problem being, there are already games that have amazing stories, and controlled environments, they're called single player games. Why you would want a massively online world, yet interact with other players by doing nothing other than talking to them, and running dungeon with them is a real waste. I will probably enjoy FF14 for a few weeks, but I have to force myself to think of it as a single player game, with cooperative online modes.
There's nothing wrong with having different tastes, the problem being, there are already games that have amazing stories, and controlled environments, they're called single player games. Why you would want a massively online world, yet interact with other players by doing nothing other than talking to them, and running dungeon with them is a real waste. I will probably enjoy FF14 for a few weeks, but I have to force myself to think of it as a single player game, with cooperative online modes.
So the right answer is to underestimate others tastes?
The only problem here is that your taste does not reflect what this game is going to offer, while others will find it highly enjoyable. Why do you have to play a game you're not going to enjoy in the long run just because it's an MMO? Even different genres have different subcategories and if somebody doesn't like one game, they won't play it (JRPG and WRPG for example).
But when it comes to MMO's everyone plays everything and then complains when that MMO X didn't have interactive crafting and that MMO Y didn't have sandbox elements, demanding the developers to change the game to fit their preferences.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
There's nothing wrong with having different tastes, the problem being, there are already games that have amazing stories, and controlled environments, they're called single player games. Why you would want a massively online world, yet interact with other players by doing nothing other than talking to them, and running dungeon with them is a real waste. I will probably enjoy FF14 for a few weeks, but I have to force myself to think of it as a single player game, with cooperative online modes.
See now I usually don't reply to forums, based on being too lazy. However, I'm pretty bored and I think the point I'm going to make is rather interesting so.
You are pretty much saying people who enjoy playing games for the story line should stick to single player games. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you play games online (PvP type) for the challenge of going against another player because AI can be rather easy to take down after awhile (also to put your leet skillz in their face). Which is great and all, I can't knock you for that since I enjoy PvP games on occasion. However, what is so wrong with playing a game for the story but instead of playing it alone you want to play the story with others. That way you can experience and have people to converse with what you've done in the game.
Anyways that's just my two cents, I never really understood why people gripe about a game not having PvP or PvE. It's just a waste of time to complain about it (almost as much as me typing this post). If the game you are playing doesn't have what you want in it, don't force your thoughts about it to the devs and let them make their game the way they want. People who complain on the other hand are obviously not playing the game they want to play so they should move on to the one they are looking for rather than ruining the experience for the ones that enjoy it.
Sure is fun to win in MMO because you had better gear than your opponent, your opponent was lower level than you, you had more friends than him, or you were playing a better class than his.
If PvE is pointless in MMO's and PvP is like that, the whole genre is just flawed to the core.
Glad this is not the case though, except for PvP.
That is just because most MMOs are constructed on the EQ mechanics which originally were made for PvE.
You don't see that happen in games like Guildwars. It is really hard to make both good PvE and PvP in the same game, but it is possible. I don't however think you can get it good when you use levels, at least not open PvP.
PvP is really great in FPS games. It is just ok in MMOs, largely because the reasons you listed. But sooner or later someone will make a really great PvP game with open world PvP.
its about perception, to me PvP in MMOs is just utterly worthless. you have all these ppl in a game and all you want to do is kill them? if care to do PvP I play FPS games for 30ish min on rare occations, they are way more fast paced and over all is just better action games.
find it absolutely boring to win because had better gear or higher lvl than the opponent, no to me MMOs are about cooperation, and reaching the common goal - whatever your guild would set as the common goal, be it roleplaying, run playermade events or kill the big meanies. Ive never tried any PvP in a MMO and enjoyed it, even if Id win - sure its fun to win, but never got me excited.
I can only see you have no idea what you are talking about since none of what been said relates to PVP i know. Not every MMOS offer good PVP. But they offer even worse PVE content compared to many "offline" RPGs out there. But when you mix both it works great - to make players compete for most valueable PVE aspects.
In good PVP enabled game - gear won't grant you victory, nor even level. In a good PVP game that is. It's exactly about teamplay, cooperation, tactics, and most important - player skill.
NPCs don't really need much of it since they always predictable. So what's the difference between group of mobs and group of players of same number/level and items as yours? Let's say you came to some field to do a quest but another group is doing it, so is it not the challenge that require all that you mentioned? I can tell you why you don't like it - cuz carebears always want to have an advantage only NPCs can grant. In other words - "no balls"
Thats a real shame, because even for all the players that dont like pvp. What exactly do you do once u hit max lvl?
I mean, there is no point in getting legendary gear from epic bosses cuz ur not competing with anyone right?... right???
But just to be fair, some will say "but i like raiding and collecting itemz".
....
so lets say you do get all the gears, u can 1 shot monsters now,
GOOD JOB ...
you know what happens to my ps3 games after i hit max lvl or beat it?... i trade it in.
im afraid with all the games coming out FFXIV will fail.
If FFXIV pans out anything like FFXI has, even those there from day 1 will have no shortage of content to do.
FFXIV isn't following the typical class setup where you choose a class at level 1 and that's what you are 'til "level cap"... There will *always* be something new for your character to do, skills to develop, content to complete...
Ask the almost 500k players with multiple level 75s in FFXI - many of whom have been playing since day 1 - what they're doing.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
its about perception, to me PvP in MMOs is just utterly worthless. you have all these ppl in a game and all you want to do is kill them? if care to do PvP I play FPS games for 30ish min on rare occations, they are way more fast paced and over all is just better action games.
find it absolutely boring to win because had better gear or higher lvl than the opponent, no to me MMOs are about cooperation, and reaching the common goal - whatever your guild would set as the common goal, be it roleplaying, run playermade events or kill the big meanies. Ive never tried any PvP in a MMO and enjoyed it, even if Id win - sure its fun to win, but never got me excited.
I can only see you have no idea what you are talking about since none of what been said relates to PVP i know. Not every MMOS offer good PVP. But they offer even worse PVE content compared to many "offline" RPGs out there. But when you mix both it works great - to make players compete for most valueable PVE aspects.
In good PVP enabled game - gear won't grant you victory, nor even level. In a good PVP game that is. It's exactly about teamplay, cooperation, tactics, and most important - player skill.
NPCs don't really need much of it since they always predictable. So what's the difference between group of mobs and group of players of same number/level and items as yours? Let's say you came to some field to do a quest but another group is doing it, so is it not the challenge that require all that you mentioned? I can tell you why you don't like it - cuz carebears always want to have an advantage only NPCs can grant. In other words - "no balls"
To the underlined remark, how so? I don't consider having to relearn my class every six months when the nerf bat starts swinging great.
its about perception, to me PvP in MMOs is just utterly worthless. you have all these ppl in a game and all you want to do is kill them? if care to do PvP I play FPS games for 30ish min on rare occations, they are way more fast paced and over all is just better action games.
find it absolutely boring to win because had better gear or higher lvl than the opponent, no to me MMOs are about cooperation, and reaching the common goal - whatever your guild would set as the common goal, be it roleplaying, run playermade events or kill the big meanies. Ive never tried any PvP in a MMO and enjoyed it, even if Id win - sure its fun to win, but never got me excited.
I can only see you have no idea what you are talking about since none of what been said relates to PVP i know. Not every MMOS offer good PVP. But they offer even worse PVE content compared to many "offline" RPGs out there. But when you mix both it works great - to make players compete for most valueable PVE aspects.
In good PVP enabled game - gear won't grant you victory, nor even level. In a good PVP game that is. It's exactly about teamplay, cooperation, tactics, and most important - player skill.
NPCs don't really need much of it since they always predictable. So what's the difference between group of mobs and group of players of same number/level and items as yours? Let's say you came to some field to do a quest but another group is doing it, so is it not the challenge that require all that you mentioned? I can tell you why you don't like it - cuz carebears always want to have an advantage only NPCs can grant. In other words - "no balls"
by your definition, name 1 good PVP MMO, one where gear and level do not matter, just teamplay, cooperation, tactics, and player skill are the only deciding factors in the outcome.
Comments
I love FFXI but not adding optional PvP(like BGs, arena, duels) that isn't pointless(like Ballista and Brenner are)is just lazy. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to /duel someone while we were waiting for our party to fill up/show up or something.
And from that video I want to quote this part most:
---
""I am an adventurer of Vana'Diel", She said.
Of course. I am one too, I thought.
However, her idea of an "adventurer" and mine were very different.
[Valkurm was fun. We didn't know our left from our right, thinking together we found the
way.]
[But then we went to Jeuno, doing the same thing everyday. We didn't have any spare
time.]
[Because I got teleports, I thought we could all travel the world. But everyone was
caught up with leveling...]
[I wanted to see more of the world. There has to be places we have yet to discover. I
thought it would be good if we could share that together]
[I still remember when we saw that rainbow in La Theine, I wanted to expierence that
again, with everyone...]
When I heard this I was shocked.
I was touched when we first got to Jeuno.
But after that, did finding a new place matter to me?
When I first came to a place, I just thought of it as a new hunting ground.
The stone monuments, which detail the history of each area, was just a means to finish
the quest for the Crawler's Nest map.
When did I forget what being an adventurer meant?"
---
Exploiring the world together, seeing it as an adventure.
A lot of players of today don't want an mmoRPG, they just want a MMOG, with quick combat, quick rewards. Story they don't read, the just want the reward.
Well for me the reward is the fun I have with the people while doing it, and enjoying the story SE has written for us.
This is something not everyone will like, and there is nothing wrong with that fact, but please, let people who do enjoy it have their fun and look for a game were you can have the things you like. Then everyone is happy.
Why must all the MMORPG's have the same concept?
Nice video. It really makes you wonder how far these mmorpg are from that sense of adventuring. It's all about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
Which is why most people can't adapt and will find XIV lackluster. It's not always about the hunting grounds, leveling and the purplez.
But FFXI suffered too from this. Camping for hours a mob or farming for days in a place so you can be higher level enough to explore other places.
It all comes down to what peoples aim in a game. That video was the perfect example of how players interests shift while progressing. Only that girl in the video hold true to what that game should had been. The others become hunting machines. I always have that adventuring spirit when I first create a character. A new world there for me to explore but I always end up in following a single trail, killing mobs so I can be able to go in the next area to kill more mobs. Getting that shiny purple so I can group with others to get more shiny things. All mmorpg suffer from this, some maybe less than others.
Yes, XI suffered because of those things, but I don't think it has anything to do with what we're talking about here.
Most of us started aiming for lootz and leveling became a grind after a while.. but that said, should we skip the "adventuring" part altogether simply because it'll wear off after some time? I think it should be treasured for as long as possible, whatever happens later doesn't matter. In the best case once the feeling has worn off, the player quits and remembers the times he had with a warm thoughts, instead of aiming for epic lewtz until getting burned out.
Had a wonderful adventure when I played ffxi too but I started playing the game alone because all the friends I had played wow....
While leveling and wandering in new zones I had a lot of fun even grinding the birds (sorry forgot the name) to get beads to trade for rep was something I enjoyed because unlike most mmos you had the fear of death of an "elite" mob came near you.
After a while playing and was on my 20s I was in the capital city and received a /tell to join a linkshell that's where a small part of the adventure started developing.
I was having fun leveling, unlock jobs just for the sake of having them but not using them, visit new places were you could have been 1 shot killed by mobs just to get a teleport or maps THAT's a pure adventure.
Had fun doing some bosses with them helping me finish some of the story quest it was fun.
But the problem was in the linkshell I was the only one low level and all of them had many 75 jobs and had things to do to get gear, finish quests and such so I began joining random groups to level up so I could move on forward and that's when I started losing the sense of adventure but more fighting mobs to get gear,money and level so I could go some were else to get better drops and such.
Stopped helping people in Jueno when they tried making gropes my focus now was to reach lvl 75...
Finally reached Jueno a little accomplishment and joy filled my heart reaching this hard place. Started doing some quests just for the sake of the story not for the loot (apart of the one to get a partner with you) but the urge to level was starting to appear again when some of the quests were to hard to complete myself and the linkshell I was in always had something to do and couldn't help me all the time.
So the struggle to level started again but this time I was spending lots of hours to get a group to kill monsters for exp and afterwards not staying there a lot.
People started to demand stuff in the game like I was trying to level as sam/thf but some one group specially ordered me to change sub to war even if it was only lvl 10 because it is better or else they would kick me, I didn't want to change sub so I left and waitied in Jueno for several hours for some other group and gave up and logged off.
I began saying to myself I'm paying a sub to wait for 3-5 hours to finally get in a group every single time and I began losing interest in the game and it was making me turn into a basement guy, said to the linkshell I was leaving the game and slowly left with a sad feeling.
I started playing the game when wow was on burning crusade and in a few months was going to launch lich king population on ffxi was not one of the greatest but you could still find around 10 people in the lower maps killing monsters but not so much in jeuno and higher.
Now I'll try to join ffxiv when they launch and wishing they leave the sense of adventure ffxi had this time I'll try to not join late and risk on finding few people to enjoy the game with specially since some friends are going to try it also.
Thanks for the youtube link it made me remember the fun I had when I played the game.
What good is MMORPG, which is multi-player game without PVP? You can do all your PVE stuff in offline game.
Anyway - if no-PVP is confirmed, according to developers statement, then i guess FF is not on my watch list
lolno.
its about perception, to me PvP in MMOs is just utterly worthless. you have all these ppl in a game and all you want to do is kill them? if care to do PvP I play FPS games for 30ish min on rare occations, they are way more fast paced and over all is just better action games.
find it absolutely boring to win because had better gear or higher lvl than the opponent, no to me MMOs are about cooperation, and reaching the common goal - whatever your guild would set as the common goal, be it roleplaying, run playermade events or kill the big meanies. Ive never tried any PvP in a MMO and enjoyed it, even if Id win - sure its fun to win, but never got me excited.
Sure is fun to win in MMO because you had better gear than your opponent, your opponent was lower level than you, you had more friends than him, or you were playing a better class than his.
If PvE is pointless in MMO's and PvP is like that, the whole genre is just flawed to the core.
Glad this is not the case though, except for PvP.
I've got this funny feeling that many of the posters on this site have played next to zero sports throughout the course of their lives. We're talking kids with parents that forbade them to play dodgeball ffs. Grow some skin boys and girls!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sports are, in essence on, a level playing field. In sports talent, endurance and luck determine the outcome, not the fact that someone bought the newest Nike's. The sports analogy better fits FPS not MMOs. MMO's will never be on a level playing field due to the nature of the game, there will always be someone with better gear or bands of gankers running around. There is no such thing as a fair fight. Your analogy is flawed and not at all aplicable to the situation on hand.
The #1 reason not to have PVP in FFXIV for me is class balance. I want my spell caster to have at least one "Oh $@#&;" spell in his or her arsenal, something that completely decimates the enemies. How can you balance that against a sword and board character in PVP? PVP class balancing waters down the game and takes the flavor out of the individual classes in favor of a magic dps/survivability ratio.
Seems to me the way the classes are set up and being able to equip any spell from any class up to 30, that PVP would be more balanced than most games.
I'd enjoy going to PVP when i'm bored of instances, crafting, and what not. More options to keep playing one game rather than having to get my fix playing multiple ones.
And there will be an option to PvP, down the road. Or even earlier than that, depending on what the colosseum in Ul'Dah does.
But ya, side activity is what it is.
I'd be completely cool with having it as a side activity.
There's nothing wrong with having different tastes, the problem being, there are already games that have amazing stories, and controlled environments, they're called single player games. Why you would want a massively online world, yet interact with other players by doing nothing other than talking to them, and running dungeon with them is a real waste. I will probably enjoy FF14 for a few weeks, but I have to force myself to think of it as a single player game, with cooperative online modes.
So the right answer is to underestimate others tastes?
The only problem here is that your taste does not reflect what this game is going to offer, while others will find it highly enjoyable. Why do you have to play a game you're not going to enjoy in the long run just because it's an MMO? Even different genres have different subcategories and if somebody doesn't like one game, they won't play it (JRPG and WRPG for example).
But when it comes to MMO's everyone plays everything and then complains when that MMO X didn't have interactive crafting and that MMO Y didn't have sandbox elements, demanding the developers to change the game to fit their preferences.
See now I usually don't reply to forums, based on being too lazy. However, I'm pretty bored and I think the point I'm going to make is rather interesting so.
You are pretty much saying people who enjoy playing games for the story line should stick to single player games. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you play games online (PvP type) for the challenge of going against another player because AI can be rather easy to take down after awhile (also to put your leet skillz in their face). Which is great and all, I can't knock you for that since I enjoy PvP games on occasion. However, what is so wrong with playing a game for the story but instead of playing it alone you want to play the story with others. That way you can experience and have people to converse with what you've done in the game.
Anyways that's just my two cents, I never really understood why people gripe about a game not having PvP or PvE. It's just a waste of time to complain about it (almost as much as me typing this post). If the game you are playing doesn't have what you want in it, don't force your thoughts about it to the devs and let them make their game the way they want. People who complain on the other hand are obviously not playing the game they want to play so they should move on to the one they are looking for rather than ruining the experience for the ones that enjoy it.
That is just because most MMOs are constructed on the EQ mechanics which originally were made for PvE.
You don't see that happen in games like Guildwars. It is really hard to make both good PvE and PvP in the same game, but it is possible. I don't however think you can get it good when you use levels, at least not open PvP.
PvP is really great in FPS games. It is just ok in MMOs, largely because the reasons you listed. But sooner or later someone will make a really great PvP game with open world PvP.
FFXIV wont be that game.
I can only see you have no idea what you are talking about since none of what been said relates to PVP i know. Not every MMOS offer good PVP. But they offer even worse PVE content compared to many "offline" RPGs out there. But when you mix both it works great - to make players compete for most valueable PVE aspects.
In good PVP enabled game - gear won't grant you victory, nor even level. In a good PVP game that is. It's exactly about teamplay, cooperation, tactics, and most important - player skill.
NPCs don't really need much of it since they always predictable. So what's the difference between group of mobs and group of players of same number/level and items as yours? Let's say you came to some field to do a quest but another group is doing it, so is it not the challenge that require all that you mentioned? I can tell you why you don't like it - cuz carebears always want to have an advantage only NPCs can grant. In other words - "no balls"
If FFXIV pans out anything like FFXI has, even those there from day 1 will have no shortage of content to do.
FFXIV isn't following the typical class setup where you choose a class at level 1 and that's what you are 'til "level cap"... There will *always* be something new for your character to do, skills to develop, content to complete...
Ask the almost 500k players with multiple level 75s in FFXI - many of whom have been playing since day 1 - what they're doing.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
To the underlined remark, how so? I don't consider having to relearn my class every six months when the nerf bat starts swinging great.
by your definition, name 1 good PVP MMO, one where gear and level do not matter, just teamplay, cooperation, tactics, and player skill are the only deciding factors in the outcome.
to the person that posted that ffxi vid.
/end thread
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