See, WoW you kind of get forced into reading the story, because most people will read the quest text. Just because FFXI made you search a little bit for the quests, which was the biggest pet peeve i had, but honestly, it made the game more interesting, because it made you communicate with the ai more then in other games.
I dunno, i liked having to actually search for the stuff instead of going, OH THERES THE YELLOW EXCLAMATION MARK! QUEST QUEST QUESTTT! ...
Guess all they did was up the graphics to match current mmo standards, change a few skill names here and there, maybe add a few more... then you get FFXI modernized FFXI...V
So now you have to start over from the start. Guess there will be a new story, although i never noticed one in FFXI...
Why would anyone want to buy the same game to play it again?
Guess its gonna be like SWTOR... nothing new, just pay us for remaking something that already exists, we add a lil extra.
WTF man??? You never noticed a story in FFXI??
Did you even play the game?
Or is it because the NPC's dont have a big flashy icon above their head so you might have actually had to look for quest/mission givers?
stopped at 50 blm, 30 whm, 40 brd.
What is the story? kill the same mobs over and over and over and laugh at people who are scared to pull 2 at once?
Do you mean the few cutscenes in the game that still gave my character no real purpose?
Or maybe you mean that text spammed for 3hours straight "SAM/WAR LFG" ?
Maybe it was in the manual, i never read it though, if i'd want to read books, id buy books, not games....
IMO even WoW had more of a story that FFXI... all FFXI did was introduce aggroing mobs.
While I understand your frustration wholeheartedly, I simply suggest being a little more open-minded to FFXIV.
Yes yes, if an Age of Conan 2 was coming out, I too would not want to play it just because I had a bad experience with Age of Conan 1.
Yet, this doesn't mean that Age of Conan 2 is somewhat similar or a continuation of Age of Conan.
Likewise, FFXIV, is a totally new animal, completely different from FFXI. You've played most of the final fantasy games, right? You recall each game had a different theme, different story, etc.? Yes the lovable Ifrit or Shiva is in almost every final fantasy, but the story is generally different, and it feels different, right? I expect the same with FFXIV. If you did not like FFXI, you may like FFXIV.
I still expect greatness from Square Enix, because I love their games. Yet I also expect some things that I know will be found in most FF games. However, I know the story will be different, the characters, the game play, etc.
__________________________________________________________________________________________ "Your pride, good sir, far exceeds your worth." -x3r0h
Oldest mmorpg.com member with the least amount of post counts. That counts for something, right?
Well you can have a teleporting machine in your basement, but if you wait for some rich guy to find it and market it for you so you can sell it, you will wait a long time.
You could also have an MMO with a story but not get the players involved or caring about the story and most people will never read it.
Alternatively, you can base your MMO on conan and have breasts yet have no story past the initial area, and you wont have many people left to play it.
You see, if to get from chapter 1 to 2 in your story i have to gain 20 levels, i'll forget about it by the 3rd day because it wont seem important. FFXI didn't have much of a story, because it was not visible and had 0 impact, not because it wasn't there. Perhaps it got better after chains but i was long gone by the time treasures was available.
If your idea of a story is "Mr badguy is evil and wants to destroy the world. You have to gain 40 levels to able to face him with your friends" then 40 levels later it says "Gratz, now we have another threat".... thats not a story. A story would make me want to level fast to kill that Mr. badguy. That story would show me the world around me being destroyed, changed if no one kills that Mr. badguy. Just text telling me hes evil, isnt an rpg. An rpg actually has consequences to action and inaction.
I can't believe this topic is still going on... gamers in general are so whiny -_-;
Don't like it then move along, when you first started gaming and you saw a game that did not interest you would you spend hours discussing it or would you just pay attention to games you liked? (this isn't directed to anyone in particular, I'm just amazed that this thread has already reached 10 pages.)
It seems to me that the older a gamer gets, the more exasperating they seem to be. Just chill and play something you like, why waste your time?
how I see it, it aint about being pro or against FFXIV. but I do think back on all the things in EQ2 that just wouldnt be possible without "jumping" and it just adds soo much to the gameplay. doesnt mean FFXIV will be a bad game without it, but it does limit the gameplay options.
now its up on 20 pages I think :P and yes its easy to seem whiny in text based communication...and that goes from both " pro" and "anti" jumpers. and ofc being a pro jumper anti jumpers seems really really whiny to me jumping aint no deal breaker, but it is limitation, if you ask me.
Guess all they did was up the graphics to match current mmo standards, change a few skill names here and there, maybe add a few more... then you get FFXI modernized FFXI...V
So now you have to start over from the start. Guess there will be a new story, although i never noticed one in FFXI...
Why would anyone want to buy the same game to play it again?
Guess its gonna be like SWTOR... nothing new, just pay us for remaking something that already exists, we add a lil extra.
WTF man??? You never noticed a story in FFXI??
Did you even play the game?
Or is it because the NPC's dont have a big flashy icon above their head so you might have actually had to look for quest/mission givers?
stopped at 50 blm, 30 whm, 40 brd.
What is the story? kill the same mobs over and over and over and laugh at people who are scared to pull 2 at once?
Do you mean the few cutscenes in the game that still gave my character no real purpose?
Or maybe you mean that text spammed for 3hours straight "SAM/WAR LFG" ?
Maybe it was in the manual, i never read it though, if i'd want to read books, id buy books, not games....
IMO even WoW had more of a story that FFXI... all FFXI did was introduce aggroing mobs.
While I understand your frustration wholeheartedly, I simply suggest being a little more open-minded to FFXIV.
Yes yes, if an Age of Conan 2 was coming out, I too would not want to play it just because I had a bad experience with Age of Conan 1.
Yet, this doesn't mean that Age of Conan 2 is somewhat similar or a continuation of Age of Conan.
Likewise, FFXIV, is a totally new animal, completely different from FFXI. You've played most of the final fantasy games, right? You recall each game had a different theme, different story, etc.? Yes the lovable Ifrit or Shiva is in almost every final fantasy, but the story is generally different, and it feels different, right? I expect the same with FFXIV. If you did not like FFXI, you may like FFXIV.
I still expect greatness from Square Enix, because I love their games. Yet I also expect some things that I know will be found in most FF games. However, I know the story will be different, the characters, the game play, etc.
I was expecting the same, until I saw they were too lazy to add something as simple as a jump. Then i remembered how their current mmo still has 0 support for resolutions over 1024x768... Then I figured they weren't even willing to present us with new races... Although I did like FFXI for a few months, the lack of dedication of this company towards its honest customers through its inaction towards farmers its lack of support made me quit, and 10 years later, still having playonline when i was willing to try it again to see what had improved... I played a redmage to level 2 and figured, 10 years, 0 changes, a few expansions, everything overpriced on the AH... smells like SOE, good bye.
Up to now, all we see from news & leaks, is things that make me want to run to anything else just because the company doesnt seem to have opened up one bit in customer relations.
I can't believe this topic is still going on... gamers in general are so whiny -_-;
Don't like it then move along, when you first started gaming and you saw a game that did not interest you would you spend hours discussing it or would you just pay attention to games you liked? (this isn't directed to anyone in particular, I'm just amazed that this thread has already reached 10 pages.)
It seems to me that the older a gamer gets, the more exasperating they seem to be. Just chill and play something you like, why waste your time?
Because 0 options are available to play something we like in MMORPGS.
Then because everyone knows the potential Square-Enix has with their experience with RPGs.
Some people were crying LETDOWN 2 months ago, i was saying wait, they'll surprise us at E3. Now I have nothing left to say other than I was wrong, you were right, it looks like yet another letdown from the mmo industry.
So now that we know FFXIV is most likely gonna be bad after such comments, we already knew a few months ago that SWTOR would flop, now i guess the wait is on for GW2 who seem to, up to now anyways, be creating a new game that, one that has many ideas and expectancies from most people looking for an MMORPG.
Its not about being whiny, its about expecting a certain quality and commitment to the quality of the game, not commitment to how much you can get from every individual wallet that plays your game.
I've always been quite open with the jumping feature. I like it when it's in a game but at the same time I've seen plenty of good games without it. FFXI was perfectly fine without a jump feature and in most cases it made your journeying feel a lot more realistic. The game was also designed with having no jump feature in mind so it was uncommon to encounter a situation where you would have to take a large detour to overcome a small obstacle.
I'd say the pros and cons of having a jump ability are quite balanced if the game is designed to accomodate so it's all just a matter of taste. Personally it doesn't bother me at all either way.
I could care less what kind of rhetoric they serve us to explain no jumping, it's just lazy not putting it in. And I love the "it doesn't really serve a purpose so we don't need jumping" people. Guess what else doesn't serve a purpose in MMO's? Graphic, sound and music quality. It doesn't really serve a purpose, but it sure helps with the immersion and creation of a realistic world doesn't it?
*takes out stick and eyes the dead mare on the ground...*
Go ahead and judge a game you haven't played because you can't jump. Leave and don't let the proverbial door hit you on the way out. Yes, that is right, you are not welcome around here if you cast your judgement before seeing the results. Judging before seeing = prejudice.
FFXIV might not be the best game ever made, but I am sure even if that game presented itself, you would find some flaw in it. Being skeptical is good to a limit, but denouncing a whole game based on one thing is just being stubborn as a mule. Let me guess, a little republican is running around your head... no, my bad, JUMPING around your head saying: Health reform BAD, vote us into office so we can remove government from taking care of you. (Yes, that comment was a reference to stubborness, not a political push). Some things just have to be experienced before judgement is passed, and if you don't want to give it a chance, then just leave the game altogether and stop trying to get followers.
*takes out stick and eyes the dead mare on the ground...*
Go ahead and judge a game you haven't played because you can't jump. Leave and don't let the proverbial door hit you on the way out. Yes, that is right, you are not welcome around here if you cast your judgement before seeing the results. Judging before seeing = prejudice.
FFXIV might not be the best game ever made, but I am sure even if that game presented itself, you would find some flaw in it. Being skeptical is good to a limit, but denouncing a whole game based on one thing is just being stubborn as a mule. Let me guess, a little republican is running around your head... no, my bad, JUMPING around your head saying: Health reform BAD, vote us into office so we can remove government from taking care of you. (Yes, that comment was a reference to stubborness, not a political push). Some things just have to be experienced before judgement is passed, and if you don't want to give it a chance, then just leave the game altogether and stop trying to get followers.
/rant
Wow... All that because some people want to be able to jump in a video game?
I wouldnt say it has no place, I mean I know that jumping isnt included in normal FF games, but normal FF games arent MMOs, and you can jump accross giant objects, you just press X (or A) and it does it for you. I know jumping is a useless feauture so many of you say, but in Advent Children they could leap buildings, characters were above average, I wont be buying this game because it is to slow just like FFXI was, but an MMO is supposed to make you feel above average, not just like someone who picked up armor and sword. Even Mario could jump, how would that have changed if he couldnt! You couldnt win, granted it was his power, but its an easy feauture to implement.
wow. after reading all 20 of these page's i couldn't help but lawl so hard i scared my g/f and cat.
i see the jumping as a pain more then a breaker to any game. while alot of people here are in line for a jumping action, while even the founder of the game is saying it's not on any use. i can see the reasoning that people will wanna hold down key/bittion (X) to see there character squat down and defiy gravity for a few milla sec's in any game is super cool. yet the game makers would have a feild day tring to make that (even if it had no other meaning).
first off is the animators
they made the super jump. it could even be 200-500 frames in length and be the most beautiful animation in the world (even bringing a tear to chucknorris). it's still to long 9/10 games with a jumping action has the jump animation cut in half to always save space on the game. may that be the case idk.
secondly the world creators (modelers)
ok if jumping was even in the game and had a little purpose, this is where it get's tricky. these are the guys/girls who figure out what is jumpable and what isn't and heck they are one of the two ppl who do this. now this idea escalates to the entire world of any/every game and if they get it wrong theres no way anyone can jump it or anything. i mean i would have a nice laugh seeing someone jumping again and again to always miss it. but on a serioues note they would have a limitation to making the world to encorperate jumping, and honestly that sucks.
last but never forgotten the coders
yeah the coders of the game this is the part that costs game makers a ton of money. these people have to work hand in hand with the game writers/modelors/and desingers to figure this stuff out. how far can players jump, how high can they jump. then are there any means to mod a players jumps like the awsome barbarian in diablo (the lawl jumps haha).
none the less these guys have alot to figure out, and i dout they'd never do any of it for free.
this post is more so for the people who say "add jumpin in the game it's freaking simple" well no it's not. go learn what goes on in making a game then think to urself while u sleep is it simple.
and dang i didn't think i made a long post when i thought of it. lawl.
Originally posted by alakram The game doesnt need a jump feature becouse the server can't handle the jumps, that means the server doesnt have a Y axis it only works with w and z axis. wich means even if teh scenery is 3D, the calculations are only 2D like in a map. Thats smart, the server makes the calculations faster with only 2 axis instead of 3.
That's not how servers in games generally work. In the case of vectors as locations often the position is of little importance as the over all magnitude of computation doesn't raise by a factor of n^2, but rather by a factor of n+1 (where n is the number of parameters to resolve). What gets 3d vectors all wonky is direction (velocity) and that only happens if your server supports physics. The absence of jump in FFXIV is likely due to the absence of any reference to physics, which isn't needed in an RPG of the class that SE does (they're not known for action rpgs or FPSes, it's not their strenght). So it makes little sense for them to invest the added time to learn how to use physics in an RPG setting. They may decide at some later time with another title or IP to explore, but it's clear they're a focused team with a specific skill set and physics isn't part of that skill set. To demand jump from their team would probably invite problems that could be exploited as others have stated and that it could be a personal headache for their maintenance staff after launch (and possibly never get resolved easily).
In FFXI there were too many times that i needed to get to a lower level in a town and I could have just as easily jumped and took a little damage, but no, I had to make a 5 minute trek around to find some stairs, when if I could have jumped I could have jumped taken the damage, and rested for maybe a minute.
I was looking forward to this game so much, but now, I won't even think of playing it. Guildwars was the same way, I remember running from a horde of Char when i first got it, and I had to run down this zig zagging slope and I thought to myself, If I was really running from this huge mob, I would be jumping down this thing rather than running back and forth and back and forth. I eventually quit cause I hadn't even noticed not jumping till that point, and it really ruined the whole experience for me, so after those two things in seperate games, I said I'm not playing another MMO that doesn't bother having a jumping feature.
GW learned taht this was a mistake, and while they still had a successful product, they knew it could be better with a jump feature. FF should have learned the same thing, but didn't, so oh well. There are too many good games coming out to cry over this. (Even though I really wanted to like FFXIV)
In FFXI there were too many times that i needed to get to a lower level in a town and I could have just as easily jumped and took a little damage, but no, I had to make a 5 minute trek around to find some stairs, when if I could have jumped I could have jumped taken the damage, and rested for maybe a minute.
Name one city/town in FFXI where it takes 5 minutes to find a staircase to get to a location you would otherwise be able to reach by jumping.
I'll make it easier... Name one where it takes even 2 minutes to do so. Even 1 minute.
I'll help you...There are none.
The only locations in FFXI where you would be able to jump to a lower level if there were jumping are some spots in Jeuno (specifically Lower Jeuno and Ru'Lude Gardens), several spots in San d'oria, several spots in Whitegate/Al Zhabi, and a few spots in Bastok. In every single one of those cases, a staircase is no more than 20-30 seconds away, and that's the most extreme cases.
Blatant exaggeration does not help your argument.
I was looking forward to this game so much, but now, I won't even think of playing it. Guildwars was the same way, I remember running from a horde of Char when i first got it, and I had to run down this zig zagging slope and I thought to myself, If I was really running from this huge mob, I would be jumping down this thing rather than running back and forth and back and forth. I eventually quit cause I hadn't even noticed not jumping till that point, and it really ruined the whole experience for me, so after those two things in seperate games, I said I'm not playing another MMO that doesn't bother having a jumping feature.
GW learned taht this was a mistake, and while they still had a successful product, they knew it could be better with a jump feature. FF should have learned the same thing, but didn't, so oh well. There are too many good games coming out to cry over this. (Even though I really wanted to like FFXIV)
So... because ArenaNet decided that for their next game, jumping would be a good addition... that means SE "should have done the same"? I'm sorry... Did I miss some merge between the two companies? Is there some rule in game development that states if one company decides to add jumping to their sequel, then other developers must do the same? Each company made a decision based on their goals for their given product. There is no "ArenaNet did it, so SE should do it too"... that's ridiculous logic. FFXIV =/= GuildWars 2. Two different games, two different playstyles, two different approaches to the genre.
Personally, I'm ambivalent about it. If it has it, cool. If it doesn't have it, cool. It'd be fun if it did... I wouldn't miss it if it didn't. And honestly... While I understand some people, apparently, *really* enjoy jumping, if no jumping is enough to stop someone from playing a game that they might otherwise greatly enjoy, because they "have to run a little more"... then all I can say is... either some people have some pretty extreme "standards" in games, or some people have a penchant for exaggeration when making arguments for something that's really not all that important... simply because "they want it".
I read some of the more melodramatic arguments some people make to argue for jumping, and it makes me think of a neighbor of mine some years ago whose kids would carry on in a rather hysterical and theatrical fashion every time they wanted something. They used one phrase in particular that always cracked me up, which was "If I don't get that "enter toy here", I'm going to dieeeeee". The kid would throw himself on the ground and be like "I'm gonna die!!! I don't wanna die! I NEED that toy!! Do you want me to die?!". He said it with *such* emphasis that you'd almost think he really believed it.
That's honestly what I'm reminded of when I read the arguments some people use for jumping. You'd think their entire gaming universe would implode if they couldn't jump in a video game.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
In FFXI there were too many times that i needed to get to a lower level in a town and I could have just as easily jumped and took a little damage, but no, I had to make a 5 minute trek around to find some stairs, when if I could have jumped I could have jumped taken the damage, and rested for maybe a minute.
Name one city/town in FFXI where it takes 5 minutes to find a staircase to get to a location you would otherwise be able to reach by jumping.
I'll make it easier... Name one where it takes even 2 minutes to do so. Even 1 minute.
I'll help you...There are none.
The only locations in FFXI where you would be able to jump to a lower level if there were jumping are some spots in Jeuno (specifically Lower Jeuno and Ru'Lude Gardens), several spots in San d'oria, several spots in Whitegate/Al Zhabi, and a few spots in Bastok. In every single one of those cases, a staircase is no more than 20-30 seconds away, and that's the most extreme cases.
Blatant exaggeration does not help your argument.
I was looking forward to this game so much, but now, I won't even think of playing it. Guildwars was the same way, I remember running from a horde of Char when i first got it, and I had to run down this zig zagging slope and I thought to myself, If I was really running from this huge mob, I would be jumping down this thing rather than running back and forth and back and forth. I eventually quit cause I hadn't even noticed not jumping till that point, and it really ruined the whole experience for me, so after those two things in seperate games, I said I'm not playing another MMO that doesn't bother having a jumping feature.
GW learned taht this was a mistake, and while they still had a successful product, they knew it could be better with a jump feature. FF should have learned the same thing, but didn't, so oh well. There are too many good games coming out to cry over this. (Even though I really wanted to like FFXIV)
So... because ArenaNet decided that for their next game, jumping would be a good addition... that means SE "should have done the same"? I'm sorry... Did I miss some merge between the two companies? Is there some rule in game development that states if one company decides to add jumping to their sequel, then other developers must do the same? Each company made a decision based on their goals for their given product. There is no "ArenaNet did it, so SE should do it too"... that's ridiculous logic. FFXIV =/= GuildWars 2. Two different games, two different playstyles, two different approaches to the genre.
Personally, I'm ambivalent about it. If it has it, cool. If it doesn't have it, cool. It'd be fun if it did... I wouldn't miss it if it didn't. And honestly... While I understand some people, apparently, *really* enjoy jumping, if no jumping is enough to stop someone from playing a game that they might otherwise greatly enjoy, because they "have to run a little more"... then all I can say is... either some people have some pretty extreme "standards" in games, or some people have a penchant for exaggeration when making arguments for something that's really not all that important... simply because "they want it".
I read some of the more melodramatic arguments some people make to argue for jumping, and it makes me think of a neighbor of mine some years ago whose kids would carry on in a rather hysterical and theatrical fashion every time they wanted something. They used one phrase in particular that always cracked me up, which was "If I don't get that "enter toy here", I'm going to dieeeeee". The kid would throw himself on the ground and be like "I'm gonna die!!! I don't wanna die! I NEED that toy!! Do you want me to die?!". He said it with *such* emphasis that you'd almost think he really believed it.
That's honestly what I'm reminded of when I read the arguments some people use for jumping. You'd think their entire gaming universe would implode if they couldn't jump in a video game.
OK fine, 5 minutes if exagerating, don't mean I wouldn't have reall prefered to go up and over versus walkingaround. besides that, I think everyone who read it knew by five minutes I meant "the amount of time to do something that is really not that big a deal, but enough to be an annoyance" amount of time. and by 1 minute afterwards, I meant less than that. But hey sorry I stepped on your loose testicle about it.
Never said if Arena net did, the SE has to also....
I just said if they want my money the have to. BIG difference. HUGE as a matter of fact.. Its a simple mechanic, that makes you feel a little more like an adventurer. Is this petty? Oh hell yes it is. I guess I should have stated that at the beginning. I'm sure if you thought about it long enough you could think of little things you want to make sure of before you spend your money, like there will be no onions on your burger, you can get a window seat on a plane, at least 45 minutes on a music disk,.....uhh, happy ending available. (not saying those are things I'm picky about, just saying those ar things people can be picky about before they spend their money) with me, I like to be able to jump in the MMO's that I play.
You know, the Jumping thing must matter to enough people that I keep seeing these threads.
I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
It's not a deal-breaker, but it is annoying. However, some of the fanboi raging on those who want jumping is even more annoying still....
For those who's argument is that jumping would serve no purpose....Please remember that the ENTIRE GAME servers no purpose other than to entertain...and if people are expressing a no jumping will reduce their level of entertainment, who the hell are you to tell them to stfu and gtfo?
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P
Originally posted by spankybus I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P
Realistically people don't jump up or down more than a couple of feet, WoW, for example defies reality in being able to jump off huge cliffs and survive. Another point to bear in mind is how easy would it be for a man in metal armour to jump around without getting physically tired very quickly? if you watch a prize fight do you ever see the boxers jumping up and down while boxing their opponent? Jump is just something from platform game mechanics, you don't need it for mmorpg.
I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P
They don't shoot lighting balls out of their hands either....let's not pull the reality card in a game that lets you summon a nearly-naked ice chick to do your fighting or teleport half-way across the world just by waving your arms around :-)
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
Originally posted by spankybus Originally posted by skoreanime
Originally posted by spankybus I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P They don't shoot lighting balls out of their hands either....let's not pull the reality card in a game that lets you summon a nearly-naked ice chick to do your fighting or teleport half-way across the world just by waving your arms around :-)
I don't think it's a question of "reality" or "IRL, I'd be able to do THIS, so why can't my pixels do it too? It's 2010!"
1. Story 2. Gameplay 3. Community 4. Content 5. No ganking/griefing/harrassment . . . 99.Pvp. 100.Jumping.
Not sure why people keep whining about it as if SE will be moved to do what a tiny, miniscule portion of the gaming community that will leave the game ANYWAYS after 1 month cause they can't "pwn faces" cares about. SE knows its target aucience and what it wants, unlike most other games, and gives it to them. It's why its one of the most successful MMO/console franchises to date.
If they felt its core really wanted "jumping", that would have been the first thing they would have put in. They don't care about "all the extra subs we can get if we put jumping in" that won't like the core of the game anyways.
I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P
They don't shoot lighting balls out of their hands either....let's not pull the reality card in a game that lets you summon a nearly-naked ice chick to do your fighting or teleport half-way across the world just by waving your arms around :-)
I don't think it's a question of "reality" or "IRL, I'd be able to do THIS, so why can't my pixels do it too? It's 2010!"
The real issue is one of priority and need.
The average bunnyhopping/pvp style gamer:
1. Ranking/Pwning faces
2. Forum/chat bragging
3. Jumping
4. Sexy/"killer" costume skins
5. Zerging
.
.
.
. 100. Story/Gameplay
What a hateful, angry list...I think maybe you've been ganked one too many time, mate. Said games are not really my cup of tea, but I certainly do not begrudge others for enjoying them. It's pretty narrow-minded to assume that anyone who might want to be able to jump to drop from ledges must belong to the above list.
SE:
1. Story
2. Gameplay
3. Community
4. Content
5. No ganking/griefing/harrassment
.
.
.
99.Pvp.
100.Jumping.
I think you are confusing the single-player series with FFXI Online. Story was something I had to work for....with a ton of level and skill grinding. No griefing or Harrassment?! You don't need PvP to have jerk players, and man did we some of those. I remember one chick who used to train all the mobs to the group of parties leveling and then warping out.
There was NO jumping, but plenty of immersion-killing invisible barriers. I don't really partake in PvP much, but I certainly enjoy being able to navigate through a world in much the same way I might IRL. I don't want to have to walk around a thigh high fence. That does not make me a member of your above, angry list., thank you very much!
Not sure why people keep whining about it as if SE will be moved to do what a tiny, miniscule portion of the gaming community that will leave the game ANYWAYS after 1 month cause they can't "pwn faces" cares about. SE knows its target aucience and what it wants, unlike most other games, and gives it to them. It's why its one of the most successful MMO/console franchises to date.
If they felt its core really wanted "jumping", that would have been the first thing they would have put in. They don't care about "all the extra subs we can get if we put jumping in" that won't like the core of the game anyways.
I think you've been in a closet since the word Enix was added to Square. FF X-2 was made for purely artistic reasons, right? I do agree, Jumping will not be added. But people are entitled to be annoyed about it......because it's absence and the associated limitations that come with it are annoying.
Like a water faucet that drips...it still works...but if you don't fix it, it will drive some people insane.
It's not a deal-breaker for me. But i am certain that, like FFXI, I will be frequently frustrated by silly barriers while I am just trying to go from point A to point B...If I could just hop over that fence...or drop down from this short ledge...
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
Thats my main thing is its a deal breaker. I might play it one day if I have the extra cash or they do a free trial. My love for FF7 apparently runs deep, and even though none have been as good, i still like to try every FF game out there. after 13 my love is starting to waver but thats a different thread for a different site.
The post above i think described it best when he mentioned not being able to jump over thigh high fences. when you don't even have to jump you could just step over. Its a game killer for me. The person talking about PvP players are the ones who want it may have somewhat of a point, The target audience they are trying to attract doesn't care about jumping. But I think that the target audience they are trying to attract is FFXI players. I've seen some innovations with the game, but nothing that is making tons of people go OMG, I'm playing this game because of this feature! haven't seen many threads about it at least. No one I know in real life has this game on their radar. But I don't know anyone who played FFXI for more than a few months.
but yeah, no jumping is just one of those things that is akin to nails scratching against a chalkboard to me. Just can't stand it.
Comments
See, WoW you kind of get forced into reading the story, because most people will read the quest text. Just because FFXI made you search a little bit for the quests, which was the biggest pet peeve i had, but honestly, it made the game more interesting, because it made you communicate with the ai more then in other games.
I dunno, i liked having to actually search for the stuff instead of going, OH THERES THE YELLOW EXCLAMATION MARK! QUEST QUEST QUESTTT!
...
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
While I understand your frustration wholeheartedly, I simply suggest being a little more open-minded to FFXIV.
Yes yes, if an Age of Conan 2 was coming out, I too would not want to play it just because I had a bad experience with Age of Conan 1.
Yet, this doesn't mean that Age of Conan 2 is somewhat similar or a continuation of Age of Conan.
Likewise, FFXIV, is a totally new animal, completely different from FFXI. You've played most of the final fantasy games, right? You recall each game had a different theme, different story, etc.? Yes the lovable Ifrit or Shiva is in almost every final fantasy, but the story is generally different, and it feels different, right? I expect the same with FFXIV. If you did not like FFXI, you may like FFXIV.
I still expect greatness from Square Enix, because I love their games. Yet I also expect some things that I know will be found in most FF games. However, I know the story will be different, the characters, the game play, etc.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
"Your pride, good sir, far exceeds your worth." -x3r0h
Oldest mmorpg.com member with the least amount of post counts. That counts for something, right?
Well you can have a teleporting machine in your basement, but if you wait for some rich guy to find it and market it for you so you can sell it, you will wait a long time.
You could also have an MMO with a story but not get the players involved or caring about the story and most people will never read it.
Alternatively, you can base your MMO on conan and have breasts yet have no story past the initial area, and you wont have many people left to play it.
You see, if to get from chapter 1 to 2 in your story i have to gain 20 levels, i'll forget about it by the 3rd day because it wont seem important. FFXI didn't have much of a story, because it was not visible and had 0 impact, not because it wasn't there. Perhaps it got better after chains but i was long gone by the time treasures was available.
If your idea of a story is "Mr badguy is evil and wants to destroy the world. You have to gain 40 levels to able to face him with your friends" then 40 levels later it says "Gratz, now we have another threat".... thats not a story. A story would make me want to level fast to kill that Mr. badguy. That story would show me the world around me being destroyed, changed if no one kills that Mr. badguy. Just text telling me hes evil, isnt an rpg. An rpg actually has consequences to action and inaction.
how I see it, it aint about being pro or against FFXIV. but I do think back on all the things in EQ2 that just wouldnt be possible without "jumping" and it just adds soo much to the gameplay. doesnt mean FFXIV will be a bad game without it, but it does limit the gameplay options.
now its up on 20 pages I think :P and yes its easy to seem whiny in text based communication...and that goes from both " pro" and "anti" jumpers. and ofc being a pro jumper anti jumpers seems really really whiny to me
jumping aint no deal breaker, but it is limitation, if you ask me.
I was expecting the same, until I saw they were too lazy to add something as simple as a jump. Then i remembered how their current mmo still has 0 support for resolutions over 1024x768... Then I figured they weren't even willing to present us with new races... Although I did like FFXI for a few months, the lack of dedication of this company towards its honest customers through its inaction towards farmers its lack of support made me quit, and 10 years later, still having playonline when i was willing to try it again to see what had improved... I played a redmage to level 2 and figured, 10 years, 0 changes, a few expansions, everything overpriced on the AH... smells like SOE, good bye.
Up to now, all we see from news & leaks, is things that make me want to run to anything else just because the company doesnt seem to have opened up one bit in customer relations.
Because 0 options are available to play something we like in MMORPGS.
Then because everyone knows the potential Square-Enix has with their experience with RPGs.
Some people were crying LETDOWN 2 months ago, i was saying wait, they'll surprise us at E3. Now I have nothing left to say other than I was wrong, you were right, it looks like yet another letdown from the mmo industry.
So now that we know FFXIV is most likely gonna be bad after such comments, we already knew a few months ago that SWTOR would flop, now i guess the wait is on for GW2 who seem to, up to now anyways, be creating a new game that, one that has many ideas and expectancies from most people looking for an MMORPG.
Its not about being whiny, its about expecting a certain quality and commitment to the quality of the game, not commitment to how much you can get from every individual wallet that plays your game.
Ah this age old debate yet again.
I've always been quite open with the jumping feature. I like it when it's in a game but at the same time I've seen plenty of good games without it. FFXI was perfectly fine without a jump feature and in most cases it made your journeying feel a lot more realistic. The game was also designed with having no jump feature in mind so it was uncommon to encounter a situation where you would have to take a large detour to overcome a small obstacle.
I'd say the pros and cons of having a jump ability are quite balanced if the game is designed to accomodate so it's all just a matter of taste. Personally it doesn't bother me at all either way.
I could care less what kind of rhetoric they serve us to explain no jumping, it's just lazy not putting it in. And I love the "it doesn't really serve a purpose so we don't need jumping" people. Guess what else doesn't serve a purpose in MMO's? Graphic, sound and music quality. It doesn't really serve a purpose, but it sure helps with the immersion and creation of a realistic world doesn't it?
*takes out stick and eyes the dead mare on the ground...*
Go ahead and judge a game you haven't played because you can't jump. Leave and don't let the proverbial door hit you on the way out. Yes, that is right, you are not welcome around here if you cast your judgement before seeing the results. Judging before seeing = prejudice.
FFXIV might not be the best game ever made, but I am sure even if that game presented itself, you would find some flaw in it. Being skeptical is good to a limit, but denouncing a whole game based on one thing is just being stubborn as a mule. Let me guess, a little republican is running around your head... no, my bad, JUMPING around your head saying: Health reform BAD, vote us into office so we can remove government from taking care of you. (Yes, that comment was a reference to stubborness, not a political push). Some things just have to be experienced before judgement is passed, and if you don't want to give it a chance, then just leave the game altogether and stop trying to get followers.
/rant
Wow... All that because some people want to be able to jump in a video game?
I wouldnt say it has no place, I mean I know that jumping isnt included in normal FF games, but normal FF games arent MMOs, and you can jump accross giant objects, you just press X (or A) and it does it for you. I know jumping is a useless feauture so many of you say, but in Advent Children they could leap buildings, characters were above average, I wont be buying this game because it is to slow just like FFXI was, but an MMO is supposed to make you feel above average, not just like someone who picked up armor and sword. Even Mario could jump, how would that have changed if he couldnt! You couldnt win, granted it was his power, but its an easy feauture to implement.
Mystery Bounty
wow. after reading all 20 of these page's i couldn't help but lawl so hard i scared my g/f and cat.
i see the jumping as a pain more then a breaker to any game. while alot of people here are in line for a jumping action, while even the founder of the game is saying it's not on any use. i can see the reasoning that people will wanna hold down key/bittion (X) to see there character squat down and defiy gravity for a few milla sec's in any game is super cool. yet the game makers would have a feild day tring to make that (even if it had no other meaning).
first off is the animators
they made the super jump. it could even be 200-500 frames in length and be the most beautiful animation in the world (even bringing a tear to chucknorris). it's still to long 9/10 games with a jumping action has the jump animation cut in half to always save space on the game. may that be the case idk.
secondly the world creators (modelers)
ok if jumping was even in the game and had a little purpose, this is where it get's tricky. these are the guys/girls who figure out what is jumpable and what isn't and heck they are one of the two ppl who do this. now this idea escalates to the entire world of any/every game and if they get it wrong theres no way anyone can jump it or anything. i mean i would have a nice laugh seeing someone jumping again and again to always miss it. but on a serioues note they would have a limitation to making the world to encorperate jumping, and honestly that sucks.
last but never forgotten the coders
yeah the coders of the game this is the part that costs game makers a ton of money. these people have to work hand in hand with the game writers/modelors/and desingers to figure this stuff out. how far can players jump, how high can they jump. then are there any means to mod a players jumps like the awsome barbarian in diablo (the lawl jumps haha).
none the less these guys have alot to figure out, and i dout they'd never do any of it for free.
this post is more so for the people who say "add jumpin in the game it's freaking simple" well no it's not. go learn what goes on in making a game then think to urself while u sleep is it simple.
and dang i didn't think i made a long post when i thought of it. lawl.
That's not how servers in games generally work. In the case of vectors as locations often the position is of little importance as the over all magnitude of computation doesn't raise by a factor of n^2, but rather by a factor of n+1 (where n is the number of parameters to resolve). What gets 3d vectors all wonky is direction (velocity) and that only happens if your server supports physics. The absence of jump in FFXIV is likely due to the absence of any reference to physics, which isn't needed in an RPG of the class that SE does (they're not known for action rpgs or FPSes, it's not their strenght). So it makes little sense for them to invest the added time to learn how to use physics in an RPG setting. They may decide at some later time with another title or IP to explore, but it's clear they're a focused team with a specific skill set and physics isn't part of that skill set. To demand jump from their team would probably invite problems that could be exploited as others have stated and that it could be a personal headache for their maintenance staff after launch (and possibly never get resolved easily).
In FFXI there were too many times that i needed to get to a lower level in a town and I could have just as easily jumped and took a little damage, but no, I had to make a 5 minute trek around to find some stairs, when if I could have jumped I could have jumped taken the damage, and rested for maybe a minute.
I was looking forward to this game so much, but now, I won't even think of playing it. Guildwars was the same way, I remember running from a horde of Char when i first got it, and I had to run down this zig zagging slope and I thought to myself, If I was really running from this huge mob, I would be jumping down this thing rather than running back and forth and back and forth. I eventually quit cause I hadn't even noticed not jumping till that point, and it really ruined the whole experience for me, so after those two things in seperate games, I said I'm not playing another MMO that doesn't bother having a jumping feature.
GW learned taht this was a mistake, and while they still had a successful product, they knew it could be better with a jump feature. FF should have learned the same thing, but didn't, so oh well. There are too many good games coming out to cry over this. (Even though I really wanted to like FFXIV)
My Thoughts on Content Locust
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
OK fine, 5 minutes if exagerating, don't mean I wouldn't have reall prefered to go up and over versus walkingaround. besides that, I think everyone who read it knew by five minutes I meant "the amount of time to do something that is really not that big a deal, but enough to be an annoyance" amount of time. and by 1 minute afterwards, I meant less than that. But hey sorry I stepped on your loose testicle about it.
Never said if Arena net did, the SE has to also....
I just said if they want my money the have to. BIG difference. HUGE as a matter of fact.. Its a simple mechanic, that makes you feel a little more like an adventurer. Is this petty? Oh hell yes it is. I guess I should have stated that at the beginning. I'm sure if you thought about it long enough you could think of little things you want to make sure of before you spend your money, like there will be no onions on your burger, you can get a window seat on a plane, at least 45 minutes on a music disk,.....uhh, happy ending available. (not saying those are things I'm picky about, just saying those ar things people can be picky about before they spend their money) with me, I like to be able to jump in the MMO's that I play.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
You know, the Jumping thing must matter to enough people that I keep seeing these threads.
I don't like invisible walls, it really is an immersion killer. FFXI had plenty of ledges that i could have easily jumped down from and survived (Ronfrue has quite a few). Seriously, I can't....just...jump down? It's 5 feet?! I can get pummeled my massive summons and survive but I can't jump off a 5 foot ledge....If I am dumb enough to jump off a cliff that will either cripple me or kill me, isn't that my problem?
It's not a deal-breaker, but it is annoying. However, some of the fanboi raging on those who want jumping is even more annoying still....
For those who's argument is that jumping would serve no purpose....Please remember that the ENTIRE GAME servers no purpose other than to entertain...and if people are expressing a no jumping will reduce their level of entertainment, who the hell are you to tell them to stfu and gtfo?
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P
I just spent the last hour reading this entire thread.
I'm not really sure why now, but it was entertaining. So, thanks everyone who posted!
The one complaint I would have about this thread, though. No jump button.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
People don't really jump off from 5feet high...more like just fall down. Unless you're just trying to be dramatic :P
Realistically people don't jump up or down more than a couple of feet, WoW, for example defies reality in being able to jump off huge cliffs and survive. Another point to bear in mind is how easy would it be for a man in metal armour to jump around without getting physically tired very quickly? if you watch a prize fight do you ever see the boxers jumping up and down while boxing their opponent? Jump is just something from platform game mechanics, you don't need it for mmorpg.They don't shoot lighting balls out of their hands either....let's not pull the reality card in a game that lets you summon a nearly-naked ice chick to do your fighting or teleport half-way across the world just by waving your arms around :-)
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
They don't shoot lighting balls out of their hands either....let's not pull the reality card in a game that lets you summon a nearly-naked ice chick to do your fighting or teleport half-way across the world just by waving your arms around :-)
I don't think it's a question of "reality" or "IRL, I'd be able to do THIS, so why can't my pixels do it too? It's 2010!"
The real issue is one of priority and need.
The average bunnyhopping/pvp style gamer:
1. Ranking/Pwning faces
2. Forum/chat bragging
3. Jumping
4. Sexy/"killer" costume skins
5. Zerging
.
.
.
. 100. Story/Gameplay
SE:
1. Story
2. Gameplay
3. Community
4. Content
5. No ganking/griefing/harrassment
.
.
.
99.Pvp.
100.Jumping.
Not sure why people keep whining about it as if SE will be moved to do what a tiny, miniscule portion of the gaming community that will leave the game ANYWAYS after 1 month cause they can't "pwn faces" cares about. SE knows its target aucience and what it wants, unlike most other games, and gives it to them. It's why its one of the most successful MMO/console franchises to date.
If they felt its core really wanted "jumping", that would have been the first thing they would have put in. They don't care about "all the extra subs we can get if we put jumping in" that won't like the core of the game anyways.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Thats my main thing is its a deal breaker. I might play it one day if I have the extra cash or they do a free trial. My love for FF7 apparently runs deep, and even though none have been as good, i still like to try every FF game out there. after 13 my love is starting to waver but thats a different thread for a different site.
The post above i think described it best when he mentioned not being able to jump over thigh high fences. when you don't even have to jump you could just step over. Its a game killer for me. The person talking about PvP players are the ones who want it may have somewhat of a point, The target audience they are trying to attract doesn't care about jumping. But I think that the target audience they are trying to attract is FFXI players. I've seen some innovations with the game, but nothing that is making tons of people go OMG, I'm playing this game because of this feature! haven't seen many threads about it at least. No one I know in real life has this game on their radar. But I don't know anyone who played FFXI for more than a few months.
but yeah, no jumping is just one of those things that is akin to nails scratching against a chalkboard to me. Just can't stand it.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
How can you say you love FF7? You can't even jump in that game. Such an immersion killer.