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Some of this criticism seems ridiculous.
ConverseSC
Member Posts: 572
Isn't it unfair to critisize this game for not being something that it was never trying to be? This game was never trying to be Ultima Online or SWG. I can understand you being dissapointed back when there was little to no information on the game, but now it seems like everyone knows what type of game this will be, and yet many still persist in acting like they've been lied to or betrayed in some manner. I don't have a problem with people criticizing the game, but I just don't understand the expectations you guys dreamed up. What did the developers say that made you think that this would be another class-less utopia? What did the initial interviews and videos do to make you expect the sweeping revitalization of the sandbox model?
I can answer that for you. Nothing.
Comments
Well I am usually on the side of letting people critisize what they want. However, I agree that some people bhave had the wrong idea about this game. Maybe they got the information from an unreliable source. Who knows?
Personally, I think discussion is harmless. This project has its supporters and critics, some more or less rational than others. It doesn't hurt anyone to let everyone be heard.
This is true and its why I always say critics should be here. Even if they make unrealistic critisms they still have the right to say what they believe. It's not like anyone is making us read.
Exactly. There isn't a ridiculous criticism. Peoples want different things from this mmo. Of course the game will not satisfy anyone but giving your opinion doesn't really harm the game. I doubt anyone would want for this game to fail or any other game for that matter. The problem is that fanbois, who are exited see the criticism as an attack to their dear game.
some of the fanatism seems ridiculous
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Arrest this man for speaking against The Truth!
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Exactly +1
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I think both sides are being pretty ridiculous to paraphrase a famous quote :
Never in the history of MMORPGs have so many,speculated so much,from so little,
So uh, did you guys actually read what I wrote or did your eyes just glaze over in the middle of it? I'm not saying that you shouldn't critisize the game. I'm just saying that you can't critisize Bioware for lying to you. It seems like everyone set of their expectations for what this game would be, and then blamed the game for being different. I think it's smarter to wait until information about a game is released, and then to see if I'll like it or not. I didn't build up this game as an epic single-player FPS, and then start cursing Bioware because it turned out to be an MMO.
I expected the game to have a little bit more innovation than
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suP_LKcQcU
Seriously?
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I don't know man, that video does nothing but make me want to play.
people just complain to complain. its Draws attention away from there terrible lives.
Broken pancaked noses FTW!!:D:D
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
How? The characters look like they have gonorrhea when they walk and the combat/animations are clunky as an old car. Look what happens in the battles... The guy just walks up with his gun and fires his blaster, the NPC died. WOW, that was fun! No response from the woman getting hit with a blaster. Everything seems slow and turn based.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
well we all love chess dont we ...
I agree with you
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
For the fans: watch that video !
1 min 14 seconds of epic NPC talk (out of a 2 minute video).
You DO realise EVERY NPC ineraction and quest you will suffer through these pure time consuming cosmetics in an online MMORPG.
And remember this the next 1.470 times you'll see these huge epic NPC moments with prerecorded voice overs and cinematics being uploded from your Hard Disk.
Seeing this I really can't believe my eyes...
Bioware has simply NO clue what makes people play ON LINE games. Even Farmville makers know more about prolonged on line play mechanics than this bunch of "cinematic" developpers.
X part of $150 million spend on voice overs from NPC's in an .... ON LINE (!!!!!) game. What the hell were they even thinking?
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
I love the dialogue scenes from bioware games. That's a plus for me. I can't stand the hair of that guy in the video though.
What really worries me is that Bioware have made a big deal about 'story' and 'voice-acting' and yet that dialogue is horribly hokey. I mean 70s TVM stgarring Troy Maclure hokey.
Regarding the OP, I dunno, being from EA/Bioware I never expected it to be the SWG replacement, nor anything like a sandbox, in fact, so far its turning out to be exactly what I expected, WOW in Space.
They are following the standard pattern of all large Development houses, they took a look at what has worked well in the past (which means WOW has to be the premier example) and are trying to re-package it into their own vision.
Understandable that they took this safe approach considering the amount of money they appear to be putting on the line, however it is disappointing to those who had hoped that SWTOR might bring something new to the table.
And I guess the story driven content with voiceovers is this games "big thing", though to me they are merely taking what WOW started, other games like AOC improved upon (in the 1st 20 levels) and extending it through th entire length of the game.
Not necessarily new, just evolved perhaps to the pinnacle of that particular feature.
As mentioned, this game can't please everyone, but that's OK, they are looking to please about 2M people or so and that probably won't be a problem. (at least in the short run)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What, you're appealing to the fans now, with your brilliant deductions?
Yeah, yeah, we know, you don't like SW TOR at all...
... yet you keep posting in the TOR forumthreads oh so willing to try and convince others that they should have the same taste as you and not like SW TOR too. Sorry, won't happen, your posts are too onesided and biased for that, basically coming over as a form of gloating and trolling.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Patently FALSE. The idea that a criticism can't be ridiculous is 100% wrong. I can give you many examples. I agree 100% with the OP in regards to this game, mainly because the open world open class pvp crowd tend to be by far the most ridiculous people on these forums and are the worst part of the MMO community, in my opinion. They're the most inflexible about what they want in a game. They're like christians in that rather than 1 major group with varying opinions, they have 200 different subgroups that have 95% overlapping beliefs in what they want, but because of 1 minor niggle point they feel like they have to differentiate themselves and thusly hating each other (try calling a baptist a calvanist, or vice versa, you'll get an idea of what i'm talking about).
So yes, the OP is right. That crowd conjured up their own expectations of what the game would be based entirely off of their predispositions and desire for a return to the glory days of SWG. The developes never said or did anything even remotely in line to support that line of reasoning. It was entirely in the minds of that crowd of players. So yes, them criticizing the game for not being what they assumed it would be is absurd and wrong, and entirely unjustified. Its like going to a Ming Jon's Chinese Palace and then getting pissed because they don't serve carne asada burritos.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
This.
OP, not everybody is citicizing it in this manner. Some people do indeed criticize it on things that the game was never ment to be, but not all of them claim that there was a time when they believed the game was. They just criticize it in general for not trying something new or for catering to mainstream MMO players (i am a mainstream MMO player btw, just not a mainstream gamer in general). Personaly I think this people do have a point, its is true that bioware is doing nothing new so far except for the story elements. This is cirticism that is very opinion related. Many people may have no problem with the lack of innovation and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
Further more, the fans of this game are go -I LOVE BIOWARE- ing way to far in dismissing some of the criticism and therefore, some critical people might hyperbole on their opinions. It is frustrating the way the fans tread some very well argumented criticism wtih very bad and unargu -I LOVE STARWARS- mented replies. It seems that the fans believe there is such a thing as haters, people who want to destroy their beloved game and want it to fail, and want to destroy the fun for the fans. They argue that they do this because they want to defend their own game or just dont like it in general and want to ' troll'. This is the most rediculous tenedency i have ever heard of and is also completely false. Other than some hormonous 15 year old who would do things that I stated above, most peopel do not HATE a game for the sake of hating it or because they fear for their beloved MMO. Just because some people are cirtical of things they see or hear, doesnt mean they hate the game or developer or entire genre or whatever.
- I LOVE BIOWARE AND I LOVE STARWARS-
I have seen things like this: "The combat looks crappy in the vids"
Reply from fan: "Omg you people look for things to hate, HATERS."
WHAT?
More blind replies by the fans:
A. Haters cant really say anything about the game because we hardly know anything yet.
B. The videos that some people dislike so far do not say anything about the game's final state.
C. Just because there hasnt been said anythign on that subject, doesnt mean it wont be there. It is still 9 months b4 launch.
(Do you see how all these things can be used on the fans aswell: Why do you love this game? You do not know anything!)
How much things can be done in 9 months. 9months isnt that much and all the plans on the major features etc have mostly been made. That is why it worries -I LOVE BIOWARE AND STARWARS- me that BW is vague and withholding on information. I am affraid that they do not want to give negative answers and therefore dont answer them. Im affraid of fiasco like with Mythic. I can tell you this: In 9 months, BW is not going to: Change the combat and other things we saw in the vids that were not very good (imho) + at all those features they talked about but that we havnt seen yet + are going to implant even more features that they havnt answered upon yet such as space combat etc. It is not going to happen, not all together. So why do they not show some of those features they talked about? Why so vague? They are going to change it all within 9 months? You peopl realize that in those 9 months the game must be: Bug free, servers must work properly, must be shiped etc. You do realize that there is little time to implant new features at this point or ever THINK of extra features? I' am not saying that this proves anything. It could be that they just withold info and material from us eventhough it is completed. However it is interesting to think about it.
-I LOVE BIOWARE AND STARWARS-
-I LOVE BIOWARE AND STARWARS-
I figured and I'd better repeat that sometimes in the post so that people wont call me a hater. But be carefull ' lovers' I might be a Troll in DISGUISE!!!! Maybe i am just pretending so that i can be negative about a game, because that is something I just really like to do and spent time on. Yes you got me....................
All im saying is that there are plenty of things to be critical about when it comes to ToR. I'm not going to to repeat them all since there is plenty of topics you can find it in. This critique is not absolute, you can discuss it and have OPINIONS about it. Some people might think something is bad while others do not. But ofcourse the people who find something to be bad should just leave and dont play the game. It is not like this is a discussion board or anything, go away!
He's trolling and you're taking the bait like some kind of newcomer to the MMO genre. WTF Bro, dissapoint.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
YOU'RE A TRAP
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Yes, you are so right.....everybody is the same!!! And every critical person is critical because of the exact reasons you proposed. Furthermore, criticising things by projecting their own subjective standpoints on something is wrong! Really? You got to be kidding me. Maybe we should just close these forums then....
No offense, but you apply a lot more to your own conjured analogy than ' that' crowd.
People can criticise things without it being something they WANTED or BELIEVED it would be, Some peopel criticise BW for doing the same and lack of innovation. That is their opinion. The people you describe in your reply excist, yet you are overgeneralizing, like some more people are doing. There are only few haters that realy criticise this game for not having things they want, they rather criticise it on things they think are not very good in general. That has nothing to do with false beliefs.