As my reply to this thread may be a bit late - I must say the ONLY reason I quit Darkfall was because of 2 reasons:
1. The difference in HP between a newer casual player (2+ months) and a vet (1 year)
2. The relentless ganking of noobs in noob zones by super geared, mounted players. (literally I have never been ganked by someone of my gear/stat level)
So it seems they are taking steps in the right direction, but I just don't understand why elite, super chars go around killing people for virtually nothing but making them run for 15 minutes and lossing 100-200 gold and some loot.
Because when fighting others around there stat level etc. they simply can't compete. Notice the OP was all gungho about player skill mattering more than skill level and having higher level and more powerful abilities back when he first started following DFO. He couldn't compete with people on his level, so he started ganking newbs. Now he's raging that stats and skill levels are integral and should be focused on more than player skill. And this pretty much says that the OP can't compete with other vets and if newbs get a boost and the gap isn't as large he's afraid he won't have anyone he can beat in PvP anymore.
I mean seriously lol, go through this whole thread and you will see the OP raging about not being able to take on new players 2 at a time.
I mean... I admit that I don't have proof thats whats going on with the OP but from everything he's said in this thread it's about the only logical conclusion I could come to. Nothing else really makes sense.
Look its very simple to understand if you pay attention to what I am saying.
For some skill progression is a way to get TO the game, for other skill progression IS THE GAME.
players must play a game where the actions they are undertaking is seen to them as THE GAME, not a barrier to the fun part. Why your side wants a 2 week to 2 month barrier to your fun factor is beyond me but I suppose i should not try to understand that anymore than I should expect you to understand the appeal of endless skill progression.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so AGAIN, the quality of the pvp game doesnt begin for you until you have completed the development of your character. is that a correct statement?
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
so AGAIN, the quality of the pvp game doesnt begin for you until you have completed the development of your character. is that a correct statement?
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
yeah i cant understand why a two week skill progression system would appeal to you but I guess it is what it is. I think a 2 week skill progression system is retarded. I do think a no skill progression system is a great idea personally.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I was mainly focused on bows, and had a super awesome 60 rating bow (its been a while I think they have 10,20,30,40,50,60,70 ratings) - I had been palying for about 2 months casually, got this bow off a body I found in the wild.
Anyways to make it short, a super group of super elites ran up to me one day and I started running, they just stood there. One of em got off and started to come at me, the other stayed on their mounts. None of his friends helped, so I figured I would be ganked anyways, and I rly loved this bow. So I unload on this guy, hit him with magic, my 60 rating bow, everything I had. IT DIDNT EVEN PHYSICALLY MAKE HIS HP BAR GO DOWN. Dude finally gets to me, one swing with a 2h sword (im fully armored in chain) and im dead.
the point is he can 1 shot kill me, but even with a good bow and 3 months of gameplay, I cant even make his HP go down.
so AGAIN, the quality of the pvp game doesnt begin for you until you have completed the development of your character. is that a correct statement?
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
yeah i cant understand why a two week skill progression system would appeal to you but I guess it is what it is. I think a 2 week skill progression system is retarded. I do think a no skill progression system is a great idea personally.
Again, I never said two weeks. But if the game was more in line with the norm of MMOs, I would be happy.
I do see where you're coming from though... for you, what I consider grind IS the game and PvP is not meant to be fair. I just don't see it that way.
so AGAIN, the quality of the pvp game doesnt begin for you until you have completed the development of your character. is that a correct statement?
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
yeah i cant understand why a two week skill progression system would appeal to you but I guess it is what it is. I think a 2 week skill progression system is retarded. I do think a no skill progression system is a great idea personally.
Something I think many would agree with is, I can't understand why you would want a long drawn out progression system that would give such a distinct advantage to vets over new players in a PvP centric MMO. I mean seriously the type of system you want in DFO doesn't lend itself very well to the game.
so AGAIN, the quality of the pvp game doesnt begin for you until you have completed the development of your character. is that a correct statement?
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
yeah i cant understand why a two week skill progression system would appeal to you but I guess it is what it is. I think a 2 week skill progression system is retarded. I do think a no skill progression system is a great idea personally.
Again, I never said two weeks. But if the game was more in line with the norm of MMOs, I would be happy.
I do see where you're coming from though... for you, what I consider grind IS the game and PvP is not meant to be fair. I just don't see it that way.
I have read more than on post that described UO has having a skill system that takes a 'few weeks' to finish. You used UO as an example of a good system. so......hmmm what on earth was I to think?
as far as your descrpition what you call a grind (such as going out and killing pve) I dont consider a grind but for the sake of getting passed it less define pve battles as 'a grind'. Then yes, I agree with you statement and no, I dont think pvp should be 'fair'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so AGAIN, the quality of the pvp game doesnt begin for you until you have completed the development of your character. is that a correct statement?
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
yeah i cant understand why a two week skill progression system would appeal to you but I guess it is what it is. I think a 2 week skill progression system is retarded. I do think a no skill progression system is a great idea personally.
Something I think many would agree with is, I can't understand why you would want a long drawn out progression system that would give such a distinct advantage to vets over new players in a PvP centric MMO. I mean seriously the type of system you want in DFO doesn't lend itself very well to the game.
holly sh*t! wait. is someone actually asking me what I think in some level of detail? This is rare.
ok well sense you are actually asking me what I think instead of what most people to which is to protect their own views on to what I think I will provide an explaintion in a post later on. I am just a taken aback a bit that someone actually want to hear my views from me, very rare.
do you want to hear my views in the direct context of DF or in general?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I was mainly focused on bows, and had a super awesome 60 rating bow (its been a while I think they have 10,20,30,40,50,60,70 ratings) - I had been palying for about 2 months casually, got this bow off a body I found in the wild.
Anyways to make it short, a super group of super elites ran up to me one day and I started running, they just stood there. One of em got off and started to come at me, the other stayed on their mounts. None of his friends helped, so I figured I would be ganked anyways, and I rly loved this bow. So I unload on this guy, hit him with magic, my 60 rating bow, everything I had. IT DIDNT EVEN PHYSICALLY MAKE HIS HP BAR GO DOWN. Dude finally gets to me, one swing with a 2h sword (im fully armored in chain) and im dead.
the point is he can 1 shot kill me, but even with a good bow and 3 months of gameplay, I cant even make his HP go down.
yeah there are a ton of factors in that story you are leaving out. When we sit around and descide to go pvp hunting its not uncommon for us to put on extreemly expensive gear which is very risky. One day we had about 4 of us and we were going to make a surprise attack against two player. We knew these players and we knew we could take them down. We lost though, you know why? They were wearing infernal.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
I like your post, I can tell you are a thinking person.
Seems like what you are questioning is the difference between noob and vet/pro and credentials.
I can tell you I am in a position to know how high lvl pvp plays out on an advanced character with good pvpers. I've been playing from about 3 weeks from launch and people know me as being one of the better DF players. You ask any of the long term players, they know of me. Frumpy Lumps AKA Turd Burglar.
I don't often toot my own horn but In every clan i've been in (and in other games) I was always considered one of the better players if not the best player. Not only do I have a good character because I know how to maximise character progression I also have good player skills.
It is a lot easier to blame the game than blame yourself so when some people die to an advanced character, many will blame the game rather than try to think of what they could have done differently. Character differences in DF are really not as large as a lot of people pretended they are and there are no major built in advantages. You will just have to believe me when I tell you that 90% of the time, average differences in damage and HP are minimal compared to the larger factor that player skill plays in a fight involving terrain. Most people can have 300-350 hp within three months of playing Darkfall, it used to be pretty rare to come across a guy with more than 400.
Solo players really needed that extra 100 HPs to be able to fight 2v1 because the combined HP and damage output of two players was always greater than a single opponent. numbers already had a big advantage in the fact that one could block while the other lands arrows into the agressors back, it is very easy to beat even the strongest character if two people know what they are doing.
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
you can't rely on these narrow minded noobs who cry on the forums about how the game needs to be changed to tell you what the game is really like, you need to seek out the exceptionally good players and see what they are saying, like xyzxyzz or whetever from the mercs or banka plixz or val roth. You listen to anyone else and you are getting a narrow minded perspective, there is so much to this game and it takes a long time to see how things balance out.
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
FYI: Just about everyone I talk to loves the patch. Just throwing that out there for ya Lumpy
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
This is BS, the day before yesterday(Yesterday I was fcked up hardcore, read Darkfall is great on Drugs!) but I won 2 3vs1's useing bow/melee on foot, vs their mounts and stuff, 1 was a 3vs1 DHOV, was like 2 newbs and 1 vet, and 1 was vs 3 calam, 1-2 were pretty good 1 was kinda newb, But it wasnt on agon, it was on Yssam.
In fact now that NO SKILLED NEWB MAGIC IS OUT people like me who have good aim can overcome great odds vsd the people who dont because they dont hit 65 damage even if they shoot a mile away from your feet.
This patch helped newbs and people like me, all in one swoops, that said
magic could get beefed up a bit, no splash damage(R50 maybe could use a few damage depending on SPLASH BUT NOT MUCH), bolts should be underwater and less mana.
I think it would be very balanced if these changes would added, as long as the splash stays VERY VERY LOW, if I get fo rmore than 20 and its not direct, it will become unbalanced again unless im naked, but if I am in all Full plate( except 1 bone chest) and hes hitting me for over 10-15, then something is very wrong, and let me tell you why kids
IF I MISS MY ARROW, GUESS HOW MUCH DAMAGE I DO, 0000000000000000000000000000
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
IF I MISS MY ARROW, GUESS HOW MUCH DAMAGE I DO, 0000000000000000000000000000
izure, you don't even know how to play archer/melee properly and frankly its getting a little old hearing you talk about non existant balance issues just b/c you don't know what to do vs a mage. I know for a fact you are not good and you are always complaining. You should know by now that archer/melee is a different playstyle than mage and if you ever jump away from the mage or let the mage keep his distance, you are doing it wrong. Not going to ague w/ you about it, the good players agree that melee/archer was fine. Only eyerot was the reason it wasn't viable 1v1.
Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
I guess I am a nublet who knows nothing about anything, but I fail to see how making it harder is in any way making it less about skill.
Numbers have always been a trump card when it came to fighting in any game. Only controlled (and often instanced) fights have even numbers. Take this as a lesson that likens the game a bit to EVE where numbers and groups are a huge asset.
Also, curves can change dramatically that allows for 300hp in 2 weeks, 320hp in 5 weeks, 340hp in 10 weeks, 360hp in 20 weeks, 380 hp in 40 weeks... Catch my drift?
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
IF I MISS MY ARROW, GUESS HOW MUCH DAMAGE I DO, 0000000000000000000000000000
izure, you don't even know how to play archer/melee properly. I know for a fact you are not good and you are always complaining. You should know by know that archer/melee is a different playstyle than mage and if you ever jump away from the mage or let the mage keep his distance, you are doing it wrong. Not going to ague w/ you about it, the good players agree that melee/archer was fine. Only eyerot was the reason it wasn't viable 1v1.
On a side note, nerf eyerot again!
LOl how would you know for a fact I am a bad melee archer? most of the time i go out and pvp, I smoke most and I play fucked up a lot,
you are making up BS like you been doing ever since they took away your IWIN magic and HP, mages were suppose to small damage on a LOT of different ppl or A LOT OF damage one person, hence the way it is now, rays doin ga lot of damage and splash reduced depending on direct hit.
So plz make up some more sht brosker, you never even played me yet, and if you did it was probably at 1-2 am when I am totally fubared from drugs .
Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
I fail
read it again and try to comprehend that losing just b/c you are outnumbered nomatter how bad the opponents are leaves the realm of challenging pvp and enters the realm of skilless gameplay.
I didn't think its that hard to comprehend but I guess thats why they say Darkfall isn't for everyone
Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
I fail
read it again and try to comprehend that losing just b/c you are outnumbered nomatter how bad the opponents are leaves the realm of challenging pvp and enters the realm of skilless gameplay.
I didn't think its that hard to comprehend but I guess thats why they say Darkfall isn't for everyone
Darkfall never intended to cater to the no life, no job, kiddies that live in mom's basement.
It was suppose to based on player skill, it was called HARD CORE because of open pvp, freedom, and full loot, and FPS graphics.
magic took FPS graphics oiut of the equation and removed playerskill fort he most part and added character skill like all the other 100 million mmorpg's out there.
I think it is you Darkfall isnt for, they finally getting out of beta.
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
This is a major exaggeration. The HP changes did not do anything even remotely close to what you are describing. It still takes an incredibly long time to reach 400HP. It just doesn't take AS long to get in the 300-350 HP range. You still have an advantage...
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
The only 'good' players by your estimate are those who agree with your opinion. Everyone else are 'noobs' and "don't know WTF they are talking about" remember?
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
So what, you can't kill win against 2 decently developed opponents if they know what they're doing. You SHOULDN'T be able to take on two opponents like that... if they know what they are doing. The numerical advantage should give you the upper hand.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
I wouldn't call you a competitive gamer seeing as how you don't want serious competition. You just want to curb-stomp noobs with your synthetic character advantage. Now that you are looking at the possibility of losing more frequently, you are the one complaining.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
And you still can... unless you REALLY suck.
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
FYI: Just about everyone I talk to loves the patch. Just throwing that out there for ya Lumpy
I dont dispute that the majority like it for the most part since most didn't have maxed stats and it was only a very small minority of the players who put for the effort to max stats who really got screwed by this since the last 3-6 months or so of developing their HP was for naught but if DF is really a sandbox, it needs to have solo pvp too and the patch really killed that.
I can deal with all the welfare gaming up to this point but this latest patch really makes solo pvp rediculously hard b/c only a mage is really viable against those who know what they are doing in that situation and the AOE nerf, (which greatly hurts a mages ability to kill a blocking opponent) combined with the HP boost made it rediculously hard to kill someone if there is another guy attacking you and that really sucks if you enjoyed soloing, which was one of the greatest aspects of UO that has been missing from pvp mmorpgs lately.
I don't mind losing to two guys that put forth half the effort as me or even two guys who put forth 1/4th of the effort but for two guys who have put 1/10th of the effort into developing their characters to easily beat me, it sucks and it makes me feel like this game is no longer competitive enough, the reason I don't play WoW.
Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
I fail
read it again and try to comprehend that losing just b/c you are outnumbered nomatter how bad the opponents are leaves the realm of challenging pvp and enters the realm of skilless gameplay.
I didn't think its that hard to comprehend but I guess thats why they say Darkfall isn't for everyone
Okay I understand you don't like that is extra hard to kill 2 bad players now with the changes. If that is the case, then I think they should change/add mechanics that allow skill to play a greater role and not make it so easy to 2v1 someone if the 2 players are bad.
Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
I fail
read it again and try to comprehend that losing just b/c you are outnumbered nomatter how bad the opponents are leaves the realm of challenging pvp and enters the realm of skilless gameplay.
I didn't think its that hard to comprehend but I guess thats why they say Darkfall isn't for everyone
Okay I understand you don't like that is extra hard to kill 2 bad players now with the changes. If that is the case, then I think they should change/add mechanics that allow skill to play a greater role and not make it so easy to 2v1 someone if the 2 players are bad.
I'm not the only one complaining about this, other players who liked to solo are as well, they just aren't as vocal as others. Saw Tic Tac complaining about this same thing on DF forums.
They will prob change something, I was in favor of increasing hp progression for the newest players but it just seems like they went overboard is several aspects.
Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
I fail
read it again and try to comprehend that losing just b/c you are outnumbered nomatter how bad the opponents are leaves the realm of challenging pvp and enters the realm of skilless gameplay.
I didn't think its that hard to comprehend but I guess thats why they say Darkfall isn't for everyone
Okay I understand you don't like that is extra hard to kill 2 bad players now with the changes. If that is the case, then I think they should change/add mechanics that allow skill to play a greater role and not make it so easy to 2v1 someone if the 2 players are bad.
I'm not the only one complaining about this, other players who liked to solo are as well, they just aren't as vocal as others. Saw Tic Tac complaining about this same thing on DF forums.
They will prob change something, I was in favor of increasing hp progression for the newest players but it just seems like they went overboard is several aspects.
BTW, day 3 of trial and i can already kill monsters at normal lvl while players like you back them at to keep killing trolls and goblin. Now, im killing hags, centaur and when im on group, orc that drop plenty of gold and plates.
Stop being selfish and look at it the good way. Newb's like me are happy and you are the only one whining. Players that complaint about the change just need to get use to it and find a new way to solo. If soloing to you mean killing bunch of players by your own, then you found the wrong definition of soloing. Solo is suppose to be for scout just to say. Run away or hide if you see a group of player, jump on a player when you know he is alone and when you know you will win that one.
With no crowd control DF is not a competitive game anyway you look at it, with equal time played it will always be numbers > player skill
Back in the day DAOC was truly based on player skill with crowd control and timers etc - I would love to watch some of these 'Hardcore' DF players try and play in an 8 man on DAOC, they wouldnt last the opening 1 second
There's a reason cybersport games like Starcraft have gaming leagues with large value cash prizes awarded. They are purely dependant on player skill. Darkfall is not.
Comments
Because when fighting others around there stat level etc. they simply can't compete. Notice the OP was all gungho about player skill mattering more than skill level and having higher level and more powerful abilities back when he first started following DFO. He couldn't compete with people on his level, so he started ganking newbs. Now he's raging that stats and skill levels are integral and should be focused on more than player skill. And this pretty much says that the OP can't compete with other vets and if newbs get a boost and the gap isn't as large he's afraid he won't have anyone he can beat in PvP anymore.
I mean seriously lol, go through this whole thread and you will see the OP raging about not being able to take on new players 2 at a time.
I mean... I admit that I don't have proof thats whats going on with the OP but from everything he's said in this thread it's about the only logical conclusion I could come to. Nothing else really makes sense.
Look its very simple to understand if you pay attention to what I am saying.
For some skill progression is a way to get TO the game, for other skill progression IS THE GAME.
players must play a game where the actions they are undertaking is seen to them as THE GAME, not a barrier to the fun part. Why your side wants a 2 week to 2 month barrier to your fun factor is beyond me but I suppose i should not try to understand that anymore than I should expect you to understand the appeal of endless skill progression.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I would say that the BEST part of the PvP game does not begin until that point for me, yes. I certainly won't run from a fair fight at any point in the character progression process, but I don't like it when odds are severely stacked against me for long periods of time.
I am looking for a game like I remember UO being. It took some time to max out my character, but it never felt like a grind and the vast majority of my time in that game was spent while I was already a powerful character. I was in top PvP guilds that fought each other ruthelessly for years and it was the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG. But we were all fully developed characters the entire time... and unless I am remembering things completely wrong, it didn't take me 6 months to a year to reach that point.
yeah i cant understand why a two week skill progression system would appeal to you but I guess it is what it is. I think a 2 week skill progression system is retarded. I do think a no skill progression system is a great idea personally.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Exactly, I mean heres an example:
I was mainly focused on bows, and had a super awesome 60 rating bow (its been a while I think they have 10,20,30,40,50,60,70 ratings) - I had been palying for about 2 months casually, got this bow off a body I found in the wild.
Anyways to make it short, a super group of super elites ran up to me one day and I started running, they just stood there. One of em got off and started to come at me, the other stayed on their mounts. None of his friends helped, so I figured I would be ganked anyways, and I rly loved this bow. So I unload on this guy, hit him with magic, my 60 rating bow, everything I had. IT DIDNT EVEN PHYSICALLY MAKE HIS HP BAR GO DOWN. Dude finally gets to me, one swing with a 2h sword (im fully armored in chain) and im dead.
the point is he can 1 shot kill me, but even with a good bow and 3 months of gameplay, I cant even make his HP go down.
I play all ghame
Again, I never said two weeks. But if the game was more in line with the norm of MMOs, I would be happy.
I do see where you're coming from though... for you, what I consider grind IS the game and PvP is not meant to be fair. I just don't see it that way.
Something I think many would agree with is, I can't understand why you would want a long drawn out progression system that would give such a distinct advantage to vets over new players in a PvP centric MMO. I mean seriously the type of system you want in DFO doesn't lend itself very well to the game.
I have read more than on post that described UO has having a skill system that takes a 'few weeks' to finish. You used UO as an example of a good system. so......hmmm what on earth was I to think?
as far as your descrpition what you call a grind (such as going out and killing pve) I dont consider a grind but for the sake of getting passed it less define pve battles as 'a grind'. Then yes, I agree with you statement and no, I dont think pvp should be 'fair'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
holly sh*t! wait. is someone actually asking me what I think in some level of detail? This is rare.
ok well sense you are actually asking me what I think instead of what most people to which is to protect their own views on to what I think I will provide an explaintion in a post later on. I am just a taken aback a bit that someone actually want to hear my views from me, very rare.
do you want to hear my views in the direct context of DF or in general?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
yeah there are a ton of factors in that story you are leaving out. When we sit around and descide to go pvp hunting its not uncommon for us to put on extreemly expensive gear which is very risky. One day we had about 4 of us and we were going to make a surprise attack against two player. We knew these players and we knew we could take them down. We lost though, you know why? They were wearing infernal.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I like your post, I can tell you are a thinking person.
Seems like what you are questioning is the difference between noob and vet/pro and credentials.
I can tell you I am in a position to know how high lvl pvp plays out on an advanced character with good pvpers. I've been playing from about 3 weeks from launch and people know me as being one of the better DF players. You ask any of the long term players, they know of me. Frumpy Lumps AKA Turd Burglar.
I don't often toot my own horn but In every clan i've been in (and in other games) I was always considered one of the better players if not the best player. Not only do I have a good character because I know how to maximise character progression I also have good player skills.
It is a lot easier to blame the game than blame yourself so when some people die to an advanced character, many will blame the game rather than try to think of what they could have done differently. Character differences in DF are really not as large as a lot of people pretended they are and there are no major built in advantages. You will just have to believe me when I tell you that 90% of the time, average differences in damage and HP are minimal compared to the larger factor that player skill plays in a fight involving terrain. Most people can have 300-350 hp within three months of playing Darkfall, it used to be pretty rare to come across a guy with more than 400.
Solo players really needed that extra 100 HPs to be able to fight 2v1 because the combined HP and damage output of two players was always greater than a single opponent. numbers already had a big advantage in the fact that one could block while the other lands arrows into the agressors back, it is very easy to beat even the strongest character if two people know what they are doing.
The way it is now, for those who have invested several months developing their character, 2v1 is near impossible now unless the players are extremely bad because even the one month old players have 400 hp and it is too difficult to take down those HP pools with the mechanics the way they are now with the blocking and the instant cast rays and the lessened AOE damage.
people who don't understand how things really play out can theorycraft a hundred different scenarios but only the good players know what it is like to fight 2v1 and stand a chance and the reality of how pvp plays out in real time. the good players also almost always tend to agree and I would challenge anyone here to find a good player that doesn't agree with what I'm saying.
2v1 is impossibly hard now if your opponents know what they are doing, it takes so long to finish people off and there is always another guy on your back shooting instant cast rays like pungent mist and eyerotting you, it really sucks to fight outnumbered now and the solo playstyle is really suffereing more than ever. It doesn't matter how good you are, the game mechanics make it extremely difficiult since players who know what they are doing can parry when they are low while the other hits you in the back.
competitive gamers dont like losing to below average players just b/c they are outnumbered by 1. giving everyone more HP like they did along with the AOE nerf was like the final nail in the coffin for the solo playstyle. Fights take much longer now and solo players just cannot last against two opponents unless they are horribly bad.
someday you guys may think you have invested enough time into your character that you should be able to stand a chance against two month-old characters with below average player skills but DF is no longer that game apparently.
you can't rely on these narrow minded noobs who cry on the forums about how the game needs to be changed to tell you what the game is really like, you need to seek out the exceptionally good players and see what they are saying, like xyzxyzz or whetever from the mercs or banka plixz or val roth. You listen to anyone else and you are getting a narrow minded perspective, there is so much to this game and it takes a long time to see how things balance out.
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
Lumps, stop being so dramatic...
You can still pwn the crap out of multiple one month old characters if thats what gets you off (as it obviously appears to). Even after the HP changes, people who have played 3 months or more are still nowhere near 400 HP, so stop lying. And these newer players still lack the multiple weapon skills, advanced gear, superior knowledge of the game and better player skill that you supposedly posess. The advantage of having the extra HP is not nearly as big as you make it sound.
Stop assuming I get off on beating multiple noobs, I protect noobs and it is was challenging enough fighting multiple opponents as it was. This HP change combined with the AOE change gives everyone so much HP and surivability that it makes it too difficult to fight outnumbered, the fights last so long and rays take so much mana that mages are finding themselves running out of stats just trying to take down a single opponent. Add the mechanics of being able to block while your buddy hits your target in the back and you have an an impossibly high hurdle for solo players to overcome. It wasn't bad before when there was enough of an HP gap for fighting 2v1 to be viable if you put enough time into developing your character. Now that everyone is within 1-2 hits of each other HP wise, the game becomes less about who has the higher player skills and dedication to developing their character and player skills and more about who has bodys.
and its very easy to get 400 HP within a month now if you try, my friend has been playing for less than two weeks now and he has 300 HP already with 70 2-h axe mastery and 80 sharpshooter already.
After one year of playing DF I had 380 HP.
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
FYI: Just about everyone I talk to loves the patch. Just throwing that out there for ya Lumpy
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
This is BS, the day before yesterday(Yesterday I was fcked up hardcore, read Darkfall is great on Drugs!) but I won 2 3vs1's useing bow/melee on foot, vs their mounts and stuff, 1 was a 3vs1 DHOV, was like 2 newbs and 1 vet, and 1 was vs 3 calam, 1-2 were pretty good 1 was kinda newb, But it wasnt on agon, it was on Yssam.
In fact now that NO SKILLED NEWB MAGIC IS OUT people like me who have good aim can overcome great odds vsd the people who dont because they dont hit 65 damage even if they shoot a mile away from your feet.
This patch helped newbs and people like me, all in one swoops, that said
magic could get beefed up a bit, no splash damage(R50 maybe could use a few damage depending on SPLASH BUT NOT MUCH), bolts should be underwater and less mana.
I think it would be very balanced if these changes would added, as long as the splash stays VERY VERY LOW, if I get fo rmore than 20 and its not direct, it will become unbalanced again unless im naked, but if I am in all Full plate( except 1 bone chest) and hes hitting me for over 10-15, then something is very wrong, and let me tell you why kids
IF I MISS MY ARROW, GUESS HOW MUCH DAMAGE I DO, 0000000000000000000000000000
izure, you don't even know how to play archer/melee properly and frankly its getting a little old hearing you talk about non existant balance issues just b/c you don't know what to do vs a mage. I know for a fact you are not good and you are always complaining. You should know by now that archer/melee is a different playstyle than mage and if you ever jump away from the mage or let the mage keep his distance, you are doing it wrong. Not going to ague w/ you about it, the good players agree that melee/archer was fine. Only eyerot was the reason it wasn't viable 1v1.
On a side note, nerf eyerot again!
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
I guess I am a nublet who knows nothing about anything, but I fail to see how making it harder is in any way making it less about skill.
Numbers have always been a trump card when it came to fighting in any game. Only controlled (and often instanced) fights have even numbers. Take this as a lesson that likens the game a bit to EVE where numbers and groups are a huge asset.
Also, curves can change dramatically that allows for 300hp in 2 weeks, 320hp in 5 weeks, 340hp in 10 weeks, 360hp in 20 weeks, 380 hp in 40 weeks... Catch my drift?
LOl how would you know for a fact I am a bad melee archer? most of the time i go out and pvp, I smoke most and I play fucked up a lot,
you are making up BS like you been doing ever since they took away your IWIN magic and HP, mages were suppose to small damage on a LOT of different ppl or A LOT OF damage one person, hence the way it is now, rays doin ga lot of damage and splash reduced depending on direct hit.
So plz make up some more sht brosker, you never even played me yet, and if you did it was probably at 1-2 am when I am totally fubared from drugs
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read it again and try to comprehend that losing just b/c you are outnumbered nomatter how bad the opponents are leaves the realm of challenging pvp and enters the realm of skilless gameplay.
I didn't think its that hard to comprehend but I guess thats why they say Darkfall isn't for everyone
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
Darkfall never intended to cater to the no life, no job, kiddies that live in mom's basement.
It was suppose to based on player skill, it was called HARD CORE because of open pvp, freedom, and full loot, and FPS graphics.
magic took FPS graphics oiut of the equation and removed playerskill fort he most part and added character skill like all the other 100 million mmorpg's out there.
I think it is you Darkfall isnt for, they finally getting out of beta.
I dont dispute that the majority like it for the most part since most didn't have maxed stats and it was only a very small minority of the players who put for the effort to max stats who really got screwed by this since the last 3-6 months or so of developing their HP was for naught but if DF is really a sandbox, it needs to have solo pvp too and the patch really killed that.
I can deal with all the welfare gaming up to this point but this latest patch really makes solo pvp rediculously hard b/c only a mage is really viable against those who know what they are doing in that situation and the AOE nerf, (which greatly hurts a mages ability to kill a blocking opponent) combined with the HP boost made it rediculously hard to kill someone if there is another guy attacking you and that really sucks if you enjoyed soloing, which was one of the greatest aspects of UO that has been missing from pvp mmorpgs lately.
I don't mind losing to two guys that put forth half the effort as me or even two guys who put forth 1/4th of the effort but for two guys who have put 1/10th of the effort into developing their characters to easily beat me, it sucks and it makes me feel like this game is no longer competitive enough, the reason I don't play WoW.
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
Okay I understand you don't like that is extra hard to kill 2 bad players now with the changes. If that is the case, then I think they should change/add mechanics that allow skill to play a greater role and not make it so easy to 2v1 someone if the 2 players are bad.
I'm not the only one complaining about this, other players who liked to solo are as well, they just aren't as vocal as others. Saw Tic Tac complaining about this same thing on DF forums.
They will prob change something, I was in favor of increasing hp progression for the newest players but it just seems like they went overboard is several aspects.
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
BTW, day 3 of trial and i can already kill monsters at normal lvl while players like you back them at to keep killing trolls and goblin. Now, im killing hags, centaur and when im on group, orc that drop plenty of gold and plates.
Stop being selfish and look at it the good way. Newb's like me are happy and you are the only one whining. Players that complaint about the change just need to get use to it and find a new way to solo. If soloing to you mean killing bunch of players by your own, then you found the wrong definition of soloing. Solo is suppose to be for scout just to say. Run away or hide if you see a group of player, jump on a player when you know he is alone and when you know you will win that one.
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With no crowd control DF is not a competitive game anyway you look at it, with equal time played it will always be numbers > player skill
Back in the day DAOC was truly based on player skill with crowd control and timers etc - I would love to watch some of these 'Hardcore' DF players try and play in an 8 man on DAOC, they wouldnt last the opening 1 second
There's a reason cybersport games like Starcraft have gaming leagues with large value cash prizes awarded. They are purely dependant on player skill. Darkfall is not.