You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
I remember Aion had (and prolly still does) this issue and people could mass kill low characters without any penalty, jerks will be jerks and plenty of griefers chain killed low level players.
Did you ever wondered why Aion doesn't do anything about that? If they want, they can.
So you're leveling up on your own, or perhaps just sitting idly somewhere, chatting with a friend, when suddenly it happens. Out of nowhere, someone who is much, much higher level than you strolls up to you and kills you with little effort.
Your heart sinks. You stare at the monitor as your jaw opens in disbelief. Perhaps you even get angry. You just got ganked.
Hi, I was that guy. I just killed you.
Now, please, don't take it personally. I don't really know you, nor do I hold a grudge of any sort against you. You just happened to be in my line of sight, and are part of the opposing faction. (unless this is an open pvp world, then.. you were just unlucky.)
No, I didn't stalk you. This wasn't some elaborate plot against you. You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just business.
Now that you're dead, feel free to rez without being harassed. Your body will remain where it was, and i'll be long gone. I believe that corpse camping and spawn killing are the lowest, most cowardly forms of PvP. But, if I happen to see you again up the road.. then you might want to run. Nah, I won't chase you. But, if you're in my way, then yes, you're dead.
Fighting for your life, and that thrill of not knowing when you might die or get ambushed is what it is all about
It brings a challenge to the game. It is the spice of MMO life.
Do I enjoy killing people who are a lower level than me? Nah.
I just see it as more of a... friendly reminder that yes, this is a PvP zone. You need to be alert at all times.
Please enjoy the rest of the game, and I look forward to meeting you again, once you've leveled up a bit.
My name is Dirk.
and i'm a PvPer.
And this is why PvP is the death of any MMORPG. PvP seems such a simple formula, create a game world with basic mechanics and rely on the brains of your human paying players to create intresting enemies.
And then it turns out that instead of retarded AI, you get asshole AI. People who think lvl1 players needs reminder from an asshole at lvl 99 being way out of his hunting area about the rules of PvP.
PvP can be made fun, if you can remove the asshole from the gamers. Good luck. Why do you think all the best multipleplayer FPS servers are restricted? To weed out the assholes like the parent poster.
Game companies that rely heavily on PvP for their content soon find out that people don't want to pay just for the privilege of being someone elses content.
And this is why PvP is the death of any MMORPG. PvP seems such a simple formula, create a game world with basic mechanics and rely on the brains of your human paying players to create intresting enemies.
And then it turns out that instead of retarded AI, you get asshole AI. People who think lvl1 players needs reminder from an asshole at lvl 99 being way out of his hunting area about the rules of PvP.
PvP can be made fun, if you can remove the asshole from the gamers. Good luck. Why do you think all the best multipleplayer FPS servers are restricted? To weed out the assholes like the parent poster.
Game companies that rely heavily on PvP for their content soon find out that people don't want to pay just for the privilege of being someone elses content.
Pvp may be the death of mmo to you that doesn't mean it's the same for the others. Let's see, some of the most played mmos are wow, aion and lineage. All these games have pvp, 2 of which rely heavily on it.
So you're leveling up on your own, or perhaps just sitting idly somewhere, chatting with a friend, when suddenly it happens. Out of nowhere, someone who is much, much higher level than you strolls up to you and kills you with little effort.
Your heart sinks. You stare at the monitor as your jaw opens in disbelief. Perhaps you even get angry. You just got ganked.
Hi, I was that guy. I just killed you.
Now, please, don't take it personally. I don't really know you, nor do I hold a grudge of any sort against you. You just happened to be in my line of sight, and are part of the opposing faction. (unless this is an open pvp world, then.. you were just unlucky.)
No, I didn't stalk you. This wasn't some elaborate plot against you. You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just business.
Now that you're dead, feel free to rez without being harassed. Your body will remain where it was, and i'll be long gone. I believe that corpse camping and spawn killing are the lowest, most cowardly forms of PvP. But, if I happen to see you again up the road.. then you might want to run. Nah, I won't chase you. But, if you're in my way, then yes, you're dead.
Fighting for your life, and that thrill of not knowing when you might die or get ambushed is what it is all about
It brings a challenge to the game. It is the spice of MMO life.
Do I enjoy killing people who are a lower level than me? Nah.
I just see it as more of a... friendly reminder that yes, this is a PvP zone. You need to be alert at all times.
Please enjoy the rest of the game, and I look forward to meeting you again, once you've leveled up a bit.
My name is Dirk.
and i'm a PvPer.
And this is why PvP is the death of any MMORPG. PvP seems such a simple formula, create a game world with basic mechanics and rely on the brains of your human paying players to create intresting enemies.
And then it turns out that instead of retarded AI, you get asshole AI. People who think lvl1 players needs reminder from an asshole at lvl 99 being way out of his hunting area about the rules of PvP.
PvP can be made fun, if you can remove the asshole from the gamers. Good luck. Why do you think all the best multipleplayer FPS servers are restricted? To weed out the assholes like the parent poster.
Game companies that rely heavily on PvP for their content soon find out that people don't want to pay just for the privilege of being someone elses content.
Aye. And with FPS you have the choice to join a game where friends are or where you can choose your own setting / rules.
Ganking is the sole reason I have started to choose PVE servers only and want nothing to do with PVP anymore. I don't mind being killed, but I hate the attitude, the tone some PVP players have and all the jerks on the forum showing off because they killed others.
Pvp may be the death of mmo to you that doesn't mean it's the same for the others. Let's see, some of the most played mmos are wow, aion and lineage. All these games have pvp, 2 of which rely heavily on it.
WoW has many more PVE servers than PVP.
Developers also mentioned that some people on the PVP servers never willingly participate in PVP. Many players who start WoW don't even know the difference between PVP and PVE.
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Pvp may be the death of mmo to you that doesn't mean it's the same for the others. Let's see, some of the most played mmos are wow, aion and lineage. All these games have pvp, 2 of which rely heavily on it.
WoW has many more PVE servers than PVP.
Developers also mentioned that some people on the PVP servers never willingly participate in PVP. Many players who start WoW don't even know the difference between PVP and PVE.
Well pvp is not killing wow is it? What about the other 2 games I mentioned? Their primal focus is pvp and they're doing very well.
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way.
No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing.
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way.
No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing.
And, again, yuo seem to be putting it in the context of WOW/EQ style MMOs, where
- a low level player has very little chance of successfully evading such an encounter
- presence in an area does not affect control over an area
- there is zero open world tactical gameplay, therefore zero need for recon or spying
- scout is just another way to say 'ranger' or 'archer'
- low level players offer nothing of value when killed (battle/victory points, xp)
- low level players cannot gather or create anything of value to
- gameplay is on rails, with content tiered to keep each level range separate
In WOW, I would agree about his actions. Since he is talking about MMOs in general, there are several where a low level player isn't some pointless pariah. There are MMOs where low level players are capable of contributing to the economy and the political landscape.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way.
No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing.
And, again, yuo seem to be putting it in the context of WOW/EQ style MMOs, where
- a low level player has very little chance of successfully evading such an encounter
- presence in an area does not affect control over an area
- there is zero open world tactical gameplay, therefore zero need for recon or spying
- scout is just another way to say 'ranger' or 'archer'
- low level players offer nothing of value when killed (battle/victory points, xp)
- low level players cannot gather or create anything of value to
- gameplay is on rails, with content tiered to keep each level range separate
In WOW, I would agree about his actions. Since he is talking about MMOs in general, there are several where a low level player isn't some pointless pariah. There are MMOs where low level players are capable of contributing to the economy and the political landscape.
I know ... but then we can also asume that the "lowbie" won't be gathering resources alone in the field ... he would be guarded by guildies or some other sort of safety measure. Which in turn would deter the op from attacking, since he would get his ass slammed to the floor.
The op is not in this scenario ... he just ganked for the ganking pleasure ... whatever that is.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Seffren
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by bastionix
Originally posted by Loktofeit
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well. Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant. We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way. No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing. And, again, yuo seem to be putting it in the context of WOW/EQ style MMOs, where
- a low level player has very little chance of successfully evading such an encounter
- presence in an area does not affect control over an area
- there is zero open world tactical gameplay, therefore zero need for recon or spying
- scout is just another way to say 'ranger' or 'archer' - low level players offer nothing of value when killed (battle/victory points, xp) - low level players cannot gather or create anything of value to - gameplay is on rails, with content tiered to keep each level range separate
In WOW, I would agree about his actions. Since he is talking about MMOs in general, there are several where a low level player isn't some pointless pariah. There are MMOs where low level players are capable of contributing to the economy and the political landscape. . Only 50% of Eve subscribers participate in PvP. . The secret to Eve PvP popularity is that you don't have to participate. . And I don't believe that a noob in Eve is equal in anyway to 5 year old account holder.
The secret to Eve PvP popularity is that you don't have to participate.
.
And I don't believe that a noob in Eve is equal in anyway to 5 year old account holder.
There are situtations in which a noob can beat a 5yr acct holder. EVE is about being smart, not just having XP and gear. But yes, CCP recognized that you can have a succeful game where you can have both safe zones and ffa zones and they complement each other.
The reason i gank its because I love to piss "serious gamers" off :P
suicide gank Hulks or just Stealthbomb idle/afk players when i get the oportunity.
and for the ppl questioning EVE, yes a 3 month old player can beat a 5 year old one if the 3 month old player have focused all the 3 months in only pvp skills like weapon skills and spaceship command skills etc.. the thing with EvE is that it all comes down to what type of fitting meets what type of fitting AND not least pure IRL SKILLS got alot to say.
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way.
No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing.
And, again, yuo seem to be putting it in the context of WOW/EQ style MMOs, where
- a low level player has very little chance of successfully evading such an encounter
- presence in an area does not affect control over an area
- there is zero open world tactical gameplay, therefore zero need for recon or spying
- scout is just another way to say 'ranger' or 'archer' - low level players offer nothing of value when killed (battle/victory points, xp) - low level players cannot gather or create anything of value to - gameplay is on rails, with content tiered to keep each level range separate
In WOW, I would agree about his actions. Since he is talking about MMOs in general, there are several where a low level player isn't some pointless pariah. There are MMOs where low level players are capable of contributing to the economy and the political landscape.
.
Only 50% of Eve subscribers participate in PvP.
.
The secret to Eve PvP popularity is that you don't have to participate.
.
And I don't believe that a noob in Eve is equal in anyway to 5 year old account holder.
Not sure how the percentage of people PvPing disputes anything stated, or why you are making it EVE-specific. Also not sure how you interpreted that I have ever insinuated that a new player in EVE is equal to a 5-year old player. Did you mistake "evading" for "winning?"
That being said, I will gladly go the EVE route with you. In several other threads I have pointed out that L2 and EVE both became successful for similar reasons, one of which being that the games provide a reasonable amount of safelty for newer players. The other being that resources gathered and items created by low level players can be of value to veteran players. Another, even more important feature, is that you can go either game without ever once participating in PvP if you don't want to. The last is an important part of the equation, as - and this is strictly my opinion - any PVP MMO that wants to have any reasonable amount of depth needs to be 20% PvP and 80% PVE. The reason I say that is because most PvPers want to just PvP. They often don't want to spend their time doing the other aspects of the game and they will gladly let others gather, build, administer and organize in most other aspects of the game. This is very clearly displayed in the symbiosis between crafting players and PvP players within most guilds/clans in PvP MMOs.
I think we're both on the same page here, uquipu
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I once compared, line by line, the "confession" of an online PvPer/Ganker and the clinical symptoms and definition of psychopath. They matched exactly. Just saying.
Becaus in real life you'd have your pansy ass handed to you, but in the game you can be a "bad ass pvper".
That's why you gank.
I don't really see your point. I imagine in the real world huge monsters like dragons would wipe the floor with most people too. But I see no reason for people not to fight them in video games.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The “point” is that in a game certain individuals can realize their dream of domination, command, harm other real people, demonstrate their “social” importance. And in RL they have no chance to do that in any way: not strong, educated, articulated, handsome, interesting as humans, etc. enough for that. Hidden behind avatars and forum nicknames they have “absolute” freedom to say and act as they want without any responsibility or fear of the consequences that in RL would be dramatic for them.
"Because I can" isn't enough reason for me to want to kill someone. In Battlefield Bad Company 2 the whole point of the game is to kill people on the opposing team so I'm fine in that game. On darktide in Asheron's Call there is no reason for me to want to kill some random guy standing around next to me. I've never understood the red = dead mentality. In EVE things make a little more sense. In low-sec or in a mission instance I don't understand why you'd want to kill another player but in null-sec there are resources for companies to control. I would feel compelled to fight if another corp was coming into our space and being aggressive towards us. But even that is just fighting in defense, not being the initial attacker. I don't know, pvp is suddenly out of place in MMORPGs for me. I don't care to just randomly kill someone, I need a reason. Killing people isn't the fundamental action that results in winning or losing the game like in BFBC2. You don't win or lose a MMORPG. MMORPGs with open pvp will probably never work for me because I'd be the only one on the server only attacking when provoked.
Hell even in BFBC2 I have boundaries when it comes to killing people. No intentional teamkilling. I would think that goes without saying but judging from some of the players out there maybe not. But also I have rules for attacking the enemy. If I'm the gunner in a chopper and my pilot flies over the non-capable enemy base in an effort to spawn rape everyone, I sit and do nothing. I don't fire. Even if it means we get blown out of the sky and my pilot starts cursing at me. I don't care, its not good sportsmanship and I won't partake in it. Spawn raping everyone with a helicopter would probably help our team win, at the very least it would help my score, but its a douche-move. Killing someone in a MMORPG for no reason other than "I can" feels similar to me. Its just pointless and lame and I won't do it.
The “point” is that in a game certain individuals can realize their dream of domination, command, harm other real people, demonstrate their “social” importance. And in RL they have no chance to do that in any way: not strong, educated, articulated, handsome, interesting as humans, etc. enough for that. Hidden behind avatars and forum nicknames they have “absolute” freedom to say and act as they want without any responsibility or fear of the consequences that in RL would be dramatic for them.
The topic is ganking, not beating someone in a fair fight. In real life, you can be weak, uneducated, inarticulate, ugly, uninteresting and unimportant and still be able to shoot someone in the back of the head when they aren't looking.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Yes, you can do that, but in RL there is police that sooner or later hunt you down and you know that. In a game how often your guild (in case you are lucky and have good one) was able to revenge? I have mention one of the reasons why some players are ganking: they have endogenous motivation and game mechanics makes it possible without serious consequences, sometimes ganking is within game story line and even rewarded.
You've just allowed your enemy to use solo low-level characters to level in your territory, gather your resources, spy on your troops and even invade your ranks.
That's why any good PVP MMO makes sure that's not possible. If you're playing a PVP MMO where killing a players that doesn't form a threat to you grants you any type of bonus, it just means the game isn't designed very well.
wrong
that would be a PVP MMO that is good in your eyes. the game is perfectly designed, since it apparent rewards what the developers wanted it to reward. if you dont like it, well, I bet that hypotethical game isnt the only one on the market.
I cant understand why people assumes that games that dont play the way they like are just "badly designed". they are not, you made a bad decition when you purchased it. research better next time
or maybe I should complain that WoW isnt designed very well because it doesnt play in pure first person view like CoD, doesnt have snipers like CoD, nor one hit headshots like CoD, isn't room based lke CoD, has PvE unlike CoD...
Its obvious that Blizzard was trying to make a game that I would like (CoD) but they dropped the ball somewhere in the development...the opposite (that Blizzard did perfectly well what they wanted to do and I bought a game that I wouldnt like so its my fault and none elses) is simply unthinkable,amirite?
Comments
Did you ever wondered why Aion doesn't do anything about that? If they want, they can.
And this is why PvP is the death of any MMORPG. PvP seems such a simple formula, create a game world with basic mechanics and rely on the brains of your human paying players to create intresting enemies.
And then it turns out that instead of retarded AI, you get asshole AI. People who think lvl1 players needs reminder from an asshole at lvl 99 being way out of his hunting area about the rules of PvP.
PvP can be made fun, if you can remove the asshole from the gamers. Good luck. Why do you think all the best multipleplayer FPS servers are restricted? To weed out the assholes like the parent poster.
Game companies that rely heavily on PvP for their content soon find out that people don't want to pay just for the privilege of being someone elses content.
Pvp may be the death of mmo to you that doesn't mean it's the same for the others. Let's see, some of the most played mmos are wow, aion and lineage. All these games have pvp, 2 of which rely heavily on it.
Aye. And with FPS you have the choice to join a game where friends are or where you can choose your own setting / rules.
Ganking is the sole reason I have started to choose PVE servers only and want nothing to do with PVP anymore. I don't mind being killed, but I hate the attitude, the tone some PVP players have and all the jerks on the forum showing off because they killed others.
WoW has many more PVE servers than PVP.
Developers also mentioned that some people on the PVP servers never willingly participate in PVP. Many players who start WoW don't even know the difference between PVP and PVE.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well pvp is not killing wow is it? What about the other 2 games I mentioned? Their primal focus is pvp and they're doing very well.
We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way.
No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing.
L2 pvp not doing well.
And, again, yuo seem to be putting it in the context of WOW/EQ style MMOs, where
- a low level player has very little chance of successfully evading such an encounter
- presence in an area does not affect control over an area
- there is zero open world tactical gameplay, therefore zero need for recon or spying
- scout is just another way to say 'ranger' or 'archer'
- low level players offer nothing of value when killed (battle/victory points, xp)
- low level players cannot gather or create anything of value to
- gameplay is on rails, with content tiered to keep each level range separate
In WOW, I would agree about his actions. Since he is talking about MMOs in general, there are several where a low level player isn't some pointless pariah. There are MMOs where low level players are capable of contributing to the economy and the political landscape.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I know ... but then we can also asume that the "lowbie" won't be gathering resources alone in the field ... he would be guarded by guildies or some other sort of safety measure. Which in turn would deter the op from attacking, since he would get his ass slammed to the floor.
The op is not in this scenario ... he just ganked for the ganking pleasure ... whatever that is.
Basically, you agree with me then. See, we both agree that there is really isn't any reason to allow players to attack someone that is not a threat to them. I have not disputed that. What's odd is that you chose to quote the one line where I specifically listed ways in which the player would be a threat. Is it that you do not see how those actions would be a threat to you or your team? I ask, because many peopel in this thread have based their view on WOW-style PvP scenarios. In those scenarios almost everyone in this thread is in agreement. However, not every MMO is a WOW/EQ variant.
We all clearly understand what your point is, well at least I do ... but the simple truth of the matter is that the op's ganking version has no merit at all except the ganking itself, which in his case was killing a lowbie coz he was simply standing in his uber lvl way.
No guild impovement, no faction impovement, no nothing .... just pure and simple griefing.
And, again, yuo seem to be putting it in the context of WOW/EQ style MMOs, where
In WOW, I would agree about his actions. Since he is talking about MMOs in general, there are several where a low level player isn't some pointless pariah. There are MMOs where low level players are capable of contributing to the economy and the political landscape.
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Only 50% of Eve subscribers participate in PvP.
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The secret to Eve PvP popularity is that you don't have to participate.
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And I don't believe that a noob in Eve is equal in anyway to 5 year old account holder.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
There are situtations in which a noob can beat a 5yr acct holder. EVE is about being smart, not just having XP and gear. But yes, CCP recognized that you can have a succeful game where you can have both safe zones and ffa zones and they complement each other.
The reason i gank its because I love to piss "serious gamers" off :P
suicide gank Hulks or just Stealthbomb idle/afk players when i get the oportunity.
and for the ppl questioning EVE, yes a 3 month old player can beat a 5 year old one if the 3 month old player have focused all the 3 months in only pvp skills like weapon skills and spaceship command skills etc.. the thing with EvE is that it all comes down to what type of fitting meets what type of fitting AND not least pure IRL SKILLS got alot to say.
Not sure how the percentage of people PvPing disputes anything stated, or why you are making it EVE-specific. Also not sure how you interpreted that I have ever insinuated that a new player in EVE is equal to a 5-year old player. Did you mistake "evading" for "winning?"
That being said, I will gladly go the EVE route with you. In several other threads I have pointed out that L2 and EVE both became successful for similar reasons, one of which being that the games provide a reasonable amount of safelty for newer players. The other being that resources gathered and items created by low level players can be of value to veteran players. Another, even more important feature, is that you can go either game without ever once participating in PvP if you don't want to. The last is an important part of the equation, as - and this is strictly my opinion - any PVP MMO that wants to have any reasonable amount of depth needs to be 20% PvP and 80% PVE. The reason I say that is because most PvPers want to just PvP. They often don't want to spend their time doing the other aspects of the game and they will gladly let others gather, build, administer and organize in most other aspects of the game. This is very clearly displayed in the symbiosis between crafting players and PvP players within most guilds/clans in PvP MMOs.
I think we're both on the same page here, uquipu
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I once compared, line by line, the "confession" of an online PvPer/Ganker and the clinical symptoms and definition of psychopath. They matched exactly. Just saying.
I don't really see your point. I imagine in the real world huge monsters like dragons would wipe the floor with most people too. But I see no reason for people not to fight them in video games.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The “point” is that in a game certain individuals can realize their dream of domination, command, harm other real people, demonstrate their “social” importance. And in RL they have no chance to do that in any way: not strong, educated, articulated, handsome, interesting as humans, etc. enough for that. Hidden behind avatars and forum nicknames they have “absolute” freedom to say and act as they want without any responsibility or fear of the consequences that in RL would be dramatic for them.
"Because I can" isn't enough reason for me to want to kill someone. In Battlefield Bad Company 2 the whole point of the game is to kill people on the opposing team so I'm fine in that game. On darktide in Asheron's Call there is no reason for me to want to kill some random guy standing around next to me. I've never understood the red = dead mentality. In EVE things make a little more sense. In low-sec or in a mission instance I don't understand why you'd want to kill another player but in null-sec there are resources for companies to control. I would feel compelled to fight if another corp was coming into our space and being aggressive towards us. But even that is just fighting in defense, not being the initial attacker. I don't know, pvp is suddenly out of place in MMORPGs for me. I don't care to just randomly kill someone, I need a reason. Killing people isn't the fundamental action that results in winning or losing the game like in BFBC2. You don't win or lose a MMORPG. MMORPGs with open pvp will probably never work for me because I'd be the only one on the server only attacking when provoked.
Hell even in BFBC2 I have boundaries when it comes to killing people. No intentional teamkilling. I would think that goes without saying but judging from some of the players out there maybe not. But also I have rules for attacking the enemy. If I'm the gunner in a chopper and my pilot flies over the non-capable enemy base in an effort to spawn rape everyone, I sit and do nothing. I don't fire. Even if it means we get blown out of the sky and my pilot starts cursing at me. I don't care, its not good sportsmanship and I won't partake in it. Spawn raping everyone with a helicopter would probably help our team win, at the very least it would help my score, but its a douche-move. Killing someone in a MMORPG for no reason other than "I can" feels similar to me. Its just pointless and lame and I won't do it.
The topic is ganking, not beating someone in a fair fight. In real life, you can be weak, uneducated, inarticulate, ugly, uninteresting and unimportant and still be able to shoot someone in the back of the head when they aren't looking.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Yes, you can do that, but in RL there is police that sooner or later hunt you down and you know that. In a game how often your guild (in case you are lucky and have good one) was able to revenge? I have mention one of the reasons why some players are ganking: they have endogenous motivation and game mechanics makes it possible without serious consequences, sometimes ganking is within game story line and even rewarded.
wrong
that would be a PVP MMO that is good in your eyes. the game is perfectly designed, since it apparent rewards what the developers wanted it to reward. if you dont like it, well, I bet that hypotethical game isnt the only one on the market.
I cant understand why people assumes that games that dont play the way they like are just "badly designed". they are not, you made a bad decition when you purchased it. research better next time
or maybe I should complain that WoW isnt designed very well because it doesnt play in pure first person view like CoD, doesnt have snipers like CoD, nor one hit headshots like CoD, isn't room based lke CoD, has PvE unlike CoD...
Its obvious that Blizzard was trying to make a game that I would like (CoD) but they dropped the ball somewhere in the development...the opposite (that Blizzard did perfectly well what they wanted to do and I bought a game that I wouldnt like so its my fault and none elses) is simply unthinkable,amirite?