btw would you prefer them to force you to buy a second account or pay a measly 3 bucks more for a second playable character
Having to pay for a second slot on an ongoing basis is pretty harsh; I don't really care that die-hard fans claim otherwise. You can go ahead and hit yourself in the face since you seem to enjoy that.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Selling a character slot is a microtranaction. So they are using a cash shop, even if not heavily.
You need to be quite clear that the two are wholly different and yet the same.....
microtransaction is used to indicate any transaction that is within 1/1000 of a $...... its been highjacked and mis used so much, kinda like 'Hardcore' and 'Zerg'....
So I will make it simple for you...
Cash Shops are where you purchase an item that substantially changes the way you play the game, it is where a SINGLE NON RECURRING PAYMENT takes place.
Microtransaction is where (for teh second definition) a transaction under teh value of $12 occurs.
the extra char slot (for playable char or retainer) is a SUBSCRIPTION charge. it occurs on a monthly basis, unlike a cash shop transaction which would occur only once to unlock it for the account........
Anyway, why all teh doom and gloom about paying a few bucks extra for a second slot? you dont want it dont pay, its simple, no-one is forcing you to do it
This is exactly right and anyone who's not trolling understands this. *waits for madeux to intentionally not understand this*
After reading all the pages of this thread(which I can't believe I wasted my time doing), it's pretty obvious that people are more so arguing what a microtransaction is. That's why I love what Obidom said.
Whether a character slot is technically a microtransaction or not, it's pretty obvious that it's not one in the sense of 'evil microtrans' that people seem to be meaning.(excluding the cheap argumentative take that a few are changing tune to for the sake of being right[troll]) Added to that it's a recurring fee, well I've never heard of a microtransaction that recurs. In fact, from my experience with the word microtrans(in all it's misuse no less), it's quite the opposite, the existence of recurrence pretty much is the antithesis of microtrans. Increase the price beyond 10-15 dollars and we have the 100% exact opposite of a microtransaction.
Originally posted by Nesrie Having to pay for a second slot on an ongoing basis is pretty harsh; I don't really care that die-hard fans claim otherwise. You can go ahead and hit yourself in the face since you seem to enjoy that.
see:
Originally posted by Leucent 12.95 for 1 char and 1 retainer. 1 for any other retainer after that. 3 for any char after that. Thing is you only need 1 char, it plays anything else. If you get more then 1 retainer which I m sure alot will, say 3 it s 4 retainers and 1 char that can play every class in the game, for 15.95. Now tell me what WOW costs a month?
&
Originally posted by Voltlives FFXI alrady did this as a standard, I'm sorry but that is just an attempt to bounce a topic. It's keeping the same model for character slots so If you compare the average cost for an MMO of 15.99 currently to the 12.99 it stays on pace to the costs if you would add 1 slot. The concept of FFXI was that you have so many subjobs it is techincally like having many many twinks of the same toon. The concept of an stable of alt slots just doesn't apply here, sorry an apple is not an orange no matter what color you paint it. END OF LINE_ ~V
'Haters gonna hate' is the appropriate meme here. They're saving you money comparatively. Just look at it as them looking out for the 'lesser involved' player by giving you a lower base cost while still not forgetting about the 'addict' player and allowing them to go as far as they want.
Y'know I suspect most people probably think of a microtransaction as anything above and beyond the subscription price which is why so many people are having to debate the various subtleties of the different types of fees, options and charges. This standard is in place whether WoW is charging 15 for x services, or whether FFXI/FFXIV is charging 12 for x-1, anything you have to pay more for falls into that realm of microtransactions because the company is no longer giving you that service as part of the package, you have to pay extra.
To be clear I think the differences are kind of important, but what you call them isn't, just understand why people are arguing over what to call them.
It of course doesn't help there's a guy in this thread with his fingers in his ears going lalalalalala, not sure most people can stay in a rational debate with that kind of behavior going on.
This. By the definition most of the haters in this thread have posted an expansion pack would also be a microtransaction... in which case more or less every major MMO in history used microtransactions in some form. If that's the case then what's the point of this discussion? /sigh
Also some people don't seem to be able to differentiate between the three different forms of additional fees that can be incurred in an MMO: account services, microtransactions and cash shop transactions. There is a clear difference between all three. I know I'm just asking for flames here but I may as well attempt to explain the differences.
Account services - Name changes, appearance changes, server transfers, character slots, etc. Basically anything that does not give you anything different in-game and functions outside the normal limitations of the game. The reason character slots fall under this is because you can only be playing one character at a time and therefore you don't have access to anything you didn't already before, you're just able to create a character without deleting another on your account. I know someone will try and suggest that this can be used as additional storage but that is not the intent (else they would just sell actual storage capacity) and I've honestly never encountered unworkable storage problems in any P2P MMO.
Microtransactions - A one off fee that unlocks in-game content for your account. By content I am referring to actual locations, quests, raids, etc. Things to DO as opposed to things to OWN. Expansion packs could technically be included in this but it depends on their size. A full expansion pack delivering enough content to be considered a new game entirely tends to escape this classification whilst a dev trying to charge for nothing more than a glorified update easily falls under the microtransaction banner.
Cash shop transactions - Any instance of spending real money to get an object or some kind of benefit for your character. Buying xp potions, weapons, armour, cosmetic items, pets or flying unicorns are all cash shop related (and yes that means WoW has a cash shop). A lot of devs have tried to rebrand this as microtransactions to get away from the negative press that cash shops have in F2P MMOs.
What SE are offering with FFXIV is an account service. It is not necessary to experience all the content and it gives no advantage to anyone, it doesn't even give a cosmetic enhancement to anyone. A character slot does not give the player anything they did not already have access to! Stop confusing it with microtransactions which do give a player access to something new.
Also to the people that are complaining about charging for anything above the first character: if you did not play FFXI you honestly don't understand. Also no one seems to have considered that SE is charging for them in order to discourage creating alts entirely. SE are very focussed on laying the foundations for a community-centric MMO and discouraging alts is a massive step towards accomplishing that (as they knew when employing the same tactic in FFXI).
Charging for extra character slots is a microtransation. Period. End of debate.
HOWEVER, a game having microtransations like the above does NOT mean the game is suddenly a cash-shop pay to win noobstravaganza like every other Pay to Win coming out of Korea lately.
As an aside, the whole 1 characher slot thing is the reason I didnt play FF11 and likely will be the reason I dont play this one either. I dont know ANY other MMO that does this to people who pay a monthly fee and I honestly can't believe that there are people on here defending this practice. ~shrugs~
EDIT: As I was posting the above post didnt exist yet. Your definitions are your own and are not shared by everyone in the MMO community at large. Most game COMPANIES disagree with what you wrote and I think you'll find that most players have differing definitions.
Call it account services or microtransationns, if you charge EXTRA for something after a player has purchased the game to unlock any kind of functionality, it's a financial transation. Microtransaction GENERALLY refers to a small-money transaction to unlock ANYTHING in the game after purchase/free download. Expansions are generally exempt from this definition due to them being a long-held industry standard, not to mention that they usualy cost more than the standard understanding of what a microtransaction is.
Regardless, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck. Call it account services or microtransactions, it's still charging money for something extra in the game when you really get down to the core of the issue.
As an aside, the whole 1 characher slot thing is the reason I didnt play FF11 and likely will be the reason I dont play this one either. I dont know ANY other MMO that does this to people who pay a monthly fee and I honestly can't believe that there are people on here defending this practice. ~shrugs~
But you still play games that do not let you play every class on every race because of "lore limitations"?
I mean, I'd like to have a chance at least to do whatever I want in the game, whether it be class change or class X race Y.
These games don't even offer that much freedom.
If the price for such freedom is that I need to pay more to get access to cosmetical differences like different race, then yes, I will defend said practice.
I will never defend lore limitations, that's for sure.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
No they aren't. Not all cash shops sell game affecting items. In fact a high percentage are used for account features (such as character slots) or character cosmetics.
A cash shop is a cash shop, no matter what they sell.
I've also not stated any doom and gloom, about it having one. Simply pointing out the topic of this thread isn't correct. Microtransactions do exist in FF XIV.
it doesnt matter im not going to need a second character. if you dont like it buy a second account. : ) then you wont have to use there so called cash shop. /facepalm.
because you get a free retainer.
btw would you prefer them to force you to buy a second account or pay a measly 3 bucks more for a second playable character
I've not said anything about microtransactions being a pro or con, neither will I. What I said is simply that they do exist for FF XIV, and that the topic of this thread is not true.
However, on the topic of available character slots. One slot is just a joke.
As an aside, the whole 1 characher slot thing is the reason I didnt play FF11 and likely will be the reason I dont play this one either. I dont know ANY other MMO that does this to people who pay a monthly fee and I honestly can't believe that there are people on here defending this practice. ~shrugs~
But you still play games that do not let you play every class on every race because of "lore limitations"?
I mean, I'd like to have a chance at least to do whatever I want in the game, whether it be class change or class X race Y.
These games don't even offer that much freedom.
If the price for such freedom is that I need to pay more to get access to cosmetical differences like different race, then yes, I will defend said practice.
I will never defend lore limitations, that's for sure.
I assume you're referring to LOTRO, a game which, until this fall anyway allows like 8 characters for 10 dollars a month, no extra fees. If you dont like race/class restrictions due to lore, then by all means vote with your wallet and dont play but at least they arent SELLING those restricted class/race combinations as microtransactions (yet). And for the record, I've already jumped ship from LOTRO due to their plan to implement a god-awful cash shop system. It WAS a good game before that.
Charging for extra character slots is a microtransation. Period. End of debate.
HOWEVER, a game having microtransations like the above does NOT mean the game is suddenly a cash-shop pay to win noobstravaganza like every other Pay to Win coming out of Korea lately.
As an aside, the whole 1 characher slot thing is the reason I didnt play FF11 and likely will be the reason I dont play this one either. I dont know ANY other MMO that does this to people who pay a monthly fee and I honestly can't believe that there are people on here defending this practice. ~shrugs~
It makes a lot of sense to me because what it really does is put extra emphasis on the one character being important. I used to play a MUD that had a subscription + additional cost per character slot, it was pretty steep. In a game where you can do virtually everything on one character, you still had to choose a class in the MUD for example, extra slots ARE a luxury and it makes even more sense, and since the subscription fee is slightly lower than industry average, bonus.
It seems silly to me to not play a game because you only get 1 character slot, especially when you *could* pay for more and simply break even on the industry average, at least try the game and decide based on that rather than some arbitrary limitation. Its about equivalent to not being able to use red hair on an avatar, sure its kind of annoying but trivial with everything else still unexplored.
Edit: Not only did Hya beat me to the punch on that comment, he managed to post twice. I R long winded even in type.
Personally I think the one character slot is something desperately needed for more games simply to force people to establish SOME kind of permanent identity for their actions and I'm excited to try out FFXIV. I used to be an extreme altoholic so I can sympatheize, but I just spent the last 2 years of when I was playing WoW on one char only and I've simply lost the appeal of playing alts, but in the end to each their own.
I assume you're referring to LOTRO, a game which, until this fall anyway allows like 8 characters for 10 dollars a month, no extra fees. If you dont like race/class restrictions due to lore, then by all means vote with your wallet and dont play but at least they arent SELLING those restricted class/race combinations as microtransactions (yet). And for the record, I've already jumped ship from LOTRO due to their plan to implement a god-awful cash shop system. It WAS a good game before that.
What do you mean "at least"? I'd rather have the chance to do something than not have a chance at all.
But yes, I'd rather it be free, it would be the best choice. I don't think not having an option at all would be the 2nd best choice though.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I assume you're referring to LOTRO, a game which, until this fall anyway allows like 8 characters for 10 dollars a month, no extra fees. If you dont like race/class restrictions due to lore, then by all means vote with your wallet and dont play but at least they arent SELLING those restricted class/race combinations as microtransactions (yet). And for the record, I've already jumped ship from LOTRO due to their plan to implement a god-awful cash shop system. It WAS a good game before that.
What do you mean "at least"? I'd rather have the chance to do something than not have a chance at all.
But yes, I'd rather it be free, it would be the best choice. I don't think not having an option at all would be the 2nd best choice though.
Hard to fight the "If i won't/can't buy it, then nobody should have that option" mentality people have in this genre. Although I think that's a pretty solid observation, the option is better than the lack regardless of how its offered, barring anything deliberately insulting anyway.
Hard to fight the "If i won't/can't buy it, then nobody should have that option mentality people have in this genre." Although I think that's a pretty solid observation, the option is better than the lack regardless of how its offered, barring anything deliberately insulting anyway.
Yep, and thats why I assume SE thinks they can get away with it.
They offer something that other MMO's currently don't- you can play any class on any race, and can change classes at will- and they also give you the Option to play with more characters.
1+1, it is better than what other MMO's currently offer, but of course it wouldn't be hard to make it even better by making the extra characters free too. But right now, with no competition.. they're using their chance, heh.
It's really a fault of other companies for not figuring out this stuff sooner really. It's such a simple thing, but because the "standard" is that you can't have a choice, no game does it. Everyone is shooting themselves in the foot like that. And SE reaps the rewards.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Back to the original premise of the OP, I'd have to say he's drawn an incorrect conclusion (or at least one that can't be reasonably substantiated) from the information at hand. The lead developer didn't unequivocally reject the idea of micro transactions, he left the door open should the demand surface one day. No one can predict whether the market will demand them despite the heartfelt convictions of a few of the fans here.
As for not needing more than one character I can think of one instance right off the top. Will FFXIV have open world bosses that spawn on a randomized timer? If so, players will want an alt character to be able to camp the spawn point so they can check on it on a regular basis.
Is paying for an additional character a microtransaction, a macro transaction or a cash shop transaction? What difference does it make what you call it, it is still an additional fee for a service above and beyond the original fee.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's really a fault of other companies for not figuring out this stuff sooner really. It's such a simple thing, but because the "standard" is that you can't have a choice, no game does it. Everyone is shooting themselves in the foot like that. And SE reaps the rewards.
Too many cooks in the kitchen. If the choice isn't made because there's no money, its because there's too much risk, or heck because the guy with the vision says you can't.
At least as far as race/class selections go that's one of the biggest and most visceral choices players make in the game. I can imagine that guy who wanted to play X class or Y race and couldn't play them together never feels as attached to the game as simply giving them that option. I suppose offering the more unusual choices as pay options servers as an artificial limitation on how many there are... but with the current mind set so strongly, at least evidenced by these forums, against microtranscation/cashshops in any form that likely would backfire worse than it would help. In general I'm not sure exactly how the whole microtransaction thing stands with the general gaming populace, it does seem to be popular with developers though.
Originally posted by Kyleran
As for not needing more than one character I can think of one instance right off the top. Will FFXIV have open world bosses that spawn on a randomized timer? If so, players will want an alt character to be able to camp the spawn point so they can check on it on a regular basis.
Players may want that, but its not necessary. Players want many things, alts are one of those situations which can create really unusual situations like bank mules, auction house bots, look outs etc. SE is trying something a little different at least with a built in mule like character per account, but no I don't think its strictly necessary to use alts to make scouting for potentially valuable world bosses.
We'll see. Since you don't need an Alt like you do in other games, I could frankly see alts being a very niche market for SE. Most people will be fine with their main character they can build however they like.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
EDIT: As I was posting the above post didnt exist yet. Your definitions are your own and are not shared by everyone in the MMO community at large. Most game COMPANIES disagree with what you wrote and I think you'll find that most players have differing definitions.
Call it account services or microtransationns, if you charge EXTRA for something after a player has purchased the game to unlock any kind of functionality, it's a financial transation. Microtransaction GENERALLY refers to a small-money transaction to unlock ANYTHING in the game after purchase/free download. Expansions are generally exempt from this definition due to them being a long-held industry standard, not to mention that they usualy cost more than the standard understanding of what a microtransaction is.
Regardless, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck. Call it account services or microtransactions, it's still charging money for something extra in the game when you really get down to the core of the issue.
What I have described as account services predate the use of the word 'microtransaction' in the MMO genre and were actually called 'account services' back then. Name changes and server transfers have also been something of an industry standard for some time now so by your own use of that to exclude expansions, these services must also be excluded. Like I said in my initial post, the term 'microtransaction' was used to distract attention away from the cash-shop-like business practice that companies like Cryptic, SOE and Blizzard were beginning to test the waters with. Most players know all forms of additional charge under the umbrella term of microtransaction purely because that's how devs have marketed it; it was a ploy to escape the negative image of cash shops.
Also I haven't tried to suggest that they aren't charging money for something extra but there is a fundamental difference when compared to the likes of Blizzard, Cryptic or SOE: these additional character slots are not necessary and SE is doing nothing to encourage you to purchase one, if anything they discourage it. The majority of people playing FFXI had no need of an additional character slot, the entire game is built around being able to experience everything there is on that one character alone. Altaholics could just switch jobs; the different jobs on that one character could easily function as alts. The only reason the additional slots are on offer is because ignorant people would be even more unreasonably outraged over it if the single slot was all they would ever get. The option is better than no option at all.
SE want everyone to only be playing one character; there is no reason to need to play more than that. The fact that they have implemented retainers (replacing the single reason anyone ever bought an additional slot for XI, storage) shows this better than anything - they do not want people to play alts! The fee is a win/win situation for them as it discourages their use whilst simultaneously providing them with a profit should anyone be desperate enough to need one for some reason. They don't expect many people to pay the extra at all.
I assume you're referring to LOTRO, a game which, until this fall anyway allows like 8 characters for 10 dollars a month, no extra fees. If you dont like race/class restrictions due to lore, then by all means vote with your wallet and dont play but at least they arent SELLING those restricted class/race combinations as microtransactions (yet). And for the record, I've already jumped ship from LOTRO due to their plan to implement a god-awful cash shop system. It WAS a good game before that.
What do you mean "at least"? I'd rather have the chance to do something than not have a chance at all.
But yes, I'd rather it be free, it would be the best choice. I don't think not having an option at all would be the 2nd best choice though.
Hard to fight the "If i won't/can't buy it, then nobody should have that option" mentality people have in this genre. Although I think that's a pretty solid observation, the option is better than the lack regardless of how its offered, barring anything deliberately insulting anyway.
You're completely missing the point, which is understandable since Hyanmen brought this thread of conversation far off topic to the realm of Lord of the Rings Online as an attempt to nullify my opinion. This isnt a matter of something that can/wont be bought, it's him whining that you cant be every class with every race in LOTRO and claiming that if I can stand THAT then I shouldnt be complaining about 1 character slot in FF. They are completely different complaints and really have nothing to do with each other. Regardless, in its current form (since release), you can play every race and every class with a single subscription for 10 dollars a month. So you can't be a hobbit Captain. Who cares?
I admit I skipped a few pages, but is anyone else not completely shocked by the way this thread turned out?
Anyone that knows anything about SE and plays MMORPGs should know the payment model of FFXI. This is the same payment model with a little inflation on the additional character slots. Is a $2 additional charge over the previous game a bit much? maybe. Is it the same model and therefore should have been expected? yes. The thing is I don't remember people claiming FFXI had microtransactions for the last 7-8 years. Maybe I missed it.
Altaholics could just switch jobs; the different jobs on that one character could easily function as alts. The only reason the additional slots are on offer is because ignorant people would be even more unreasonably outraged over it if the single slot was all they would ever get. The option is better than no option at all.
SE want everyone to only be playing one character; there is no reason to need to play more than that. The fact that they have implemented retainers (replacing the single reason anyone ever bought an additional slot for XI, storage) shows this better than anything - they do not want people to play alts! The fee is a win/win situation for them as it discourages their use whilst simultaneously providing them with a profit should anyone be desperate enough to need one for some reason. They don't expect many people to pay the extra at all.
See, I dont buy that. Not for a millisecond.
If they WANTED everyone to play only a single character, the races would be cosmetic in nature only. Instead, the races make distinct differences to your stats and what jobs you excel at according to what I have read. If this is untrue and race doesn't change anything, then I'll of course rescind my statement.
If they WANTED everyone to play only a single character, the races would be cosmetic in nature only. Instead, the races make distinct differences to your stats and what jobs you excel at according to what I have read. If this is untrue and race doesn't change anything, then I'll of course rescind my statement.
Not right now, they don't.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
Having to pay for a second slot on an ongoing basis is pretty harsh; I don't really care that die-hard fans claim otherwise. You can go ahead and hit yourself in the face since you seem to enjoy that.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
This is exactly right and anyone who's not trolling understands this. *waits for madeux to intentionally not understand this*
After reading all the pages of this thread(which I can't believe I wasted my time doing), it's pretty obvious that people are more so arguing what a microtransaction is. That's why I love what Obidom said.
Whether a character slot is technically a microtransaction or not, it's pretty obvious that it's not one in the sense of 'evil microtrans' that people seem to be meaning.(excluding the cheap argumentative take that a few are changing tune to for the sake of being right[troll]) Added to that it's a recurring fee, well I've never heard of a microtransaction that recurs. In fact, from my experience with the word microtrans(in all it's misuse no less), it's quite the opposite, the existence of recurrence pretty much is the antithesis of microtrans. Increase the price beyond 10-15 dollars and we have the 100% exact opposite of a microtransaction.
see:
&
'Haters gonna hate' is the appropriate meme here. They're saving you money comparatively. Just look at it as them looking out for the 'lesser involved' player by giving you a lower base cost while still not forgetting about the 'addict' player and allowing them to go as far as they want.
Y'know I suspect most people probably think of a microtransaction as anything above and beyond the subscription price which is why so many people are having to debate the various subtleties of the different types of fees, options and charges. This standard is in place whether WoW is charging 15 for x services, or whether FFXI/FFXIV is charging 12 for x-1, anything you have to pay more for falls into that realm of microtransactions because the company is no longer giving you that service as part of the package, you have to pay extra.
To be clear I think the differences are kind of important, but what you call them isn't, just understand why people are arguing over what to call them.
It of course doesn't help there's a guy in this thread with his fingers in his ears going lalalalalala, not sure most people can stay in a rational debate with that kind of behavior going on.
This. By the definition most of the haters in this thread have posted an expansion pack would also be a microtransaction... in which case more or less every major MMO in history used microtransactions in some form. If that's the case then what's the point of this discussion? /sigh
Also some people don't seem to be able to differentiate between the three different forms of additional fees that can be incurred in an MMO: account services, microtransactions and cash shop transactions. There is a clear difference between all three. I know I'm just asking for flames here but I may as well attempt to explain the differences.
Account services - Name changes, appearance changes, server transfers, character slots, etc. Basically anything that does not give you anything different in-game and functions outside the normal limitations of the game. The reason character slots fall under this is because you can only be playing one character at a time and therefore you don't have access to anything you didn't already before, you're just able to create a character without deleting another on your account. I know someone will try and suggest that this can be used as additional storage but that is not the intent (else they would just sell actual storage capacity) and I've honestly never encountered unworkable storage problems in any P2P MMO.
Microtransactions - A one off fee that unlocks in-game content for your account. By content I am referring to actual locations, quests, raids, etc. Things to DO as opposed to things to OWN. Expansion packs could technically be included in this but it depends on their size. A full expansion pack delivering enough content to be considered a new game entirely tends to escape this classification whilst a dev trying to charge for nothing more than a glorified update easily falls under the microtransaction banner.
Cash shop transactions - Any instance of spending real money to get an object or some kind of benefit for your character. Buying xp potions, weapons, armour, cosmetic items, pets or flying unicorns are all cash shop related (and yes that means WoW has a cash shop). A lot of devs have tried to rebrand this as microtransactions to get away from the negative press that cash shops have in F2P MMOs.
What SE are offering with FFXIV is an account service. It is not necessary to experience all the content and it gives no advantage to anyone, it doesn't even give a cosmetic enhancement to anyone. A character slot does not give the player anything they did not already have access to! Stop confusing it with microtransactions which do give a player access to something new.
Also to the people that are complaining about charging for anything above the first character: if you did not play FFXI you honestly don't understand. Also no one seems to have considered that SE is charging for them in order to discourage creating alts entirely. SE are very focussed on laying the foundations for a community-centric MMO and discouraging alts is a massive step towards accomplishing that (as they knew when employing the same tactic in FFXI).
Charging for extra character slots is a microtransation. Period. End of debate.
HOWEVER, a game having microtransations like the above does NOT mean the game is suddenly a cash-shop pay to win noobstravaganza like every other Pay to Win coming out of Korea lately.
As an aside, the whole 1 characher slot thing is the reason I didnt play FF11 and likely will be the reason I dont play this one either. I dont know ANY other MMO that does this to people who pay a monthly fee and I honestly can't believe that there are people on here defending this practice. ~shrugs~
EDIT: As I was posting the above post didnt exist yet. Your definitions are your own and are not shared by everyone in the MMO community at large. Most game COMPANIES disagree with what you wrote and I think you'll find that most players have differing definitions.
Call it account services or microtransationns, if you charge EXTRA for something after a player has purchased the game to unlock any kind of functionality, it's a financial transation. Microtransaction GENERALLY refers to a small-money transaction to unlock ANYTHING in the game after purchase/free download. Expansions are generally exempt from this definition due to them being a long-held industry standard, not to mention that they usualy cost more than the standard understanding of what a microtransaction is.
Regardless, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck. Call it account services or microtransactions, it's still charging money for something extra in the game when you really get down to the core of the issue.
We will get our My Little Ponies at some point. Trust me.
Or what I think will happen:
"We have implemented a new race choice for the players: A Male Miqo'te!"
>>>> "We are pleased to announce the character race change service! For a small fee of 15 dollars, you can change your characters appearance!"
But you still play games that do not let you play every class on every race because of "lore limitations"?
I mean, I'd like to have a chance at least to do whatever I want in the game, whether it be class change or class X race Y.
These games don't even offer that much freedom.
If the price for such freedom is that I need to pay more to get access to cosmetical differences like different race, then yes, I will defend said practice.
I will never defend lore limitations, that's for sure.
Well that will suck. Isn't sub enough?
I've not said anything about microtransactions being a pro or con, neither will I. What I said is simply that they do exist for FF XIV, and that the topic of this thread is not true.
However, on the topic of available character slots. One slot is just a joke.
I assume you're referring to LOTRO, a game which, until this fall anyway allows like 8 characters for 10 dollars a month, no extra fees. If you dont like race/class restrictions due to lore, then by all means vote with your wallet and dont play but at least they arent SELLING those restricted class/race combinations as microtransactions (yet). And for the record, I've already jumped ship from LOTRO due to their plan to implement a god-awful cash shop system. It WAS a good game before that.
Blame capitalism. Blame marketing experts. Blame EA and Activision.
It makes a lot of sense to me because what it really does is put extra emphasis on the one character being important. I used to play a MUD that had a subscription + additional cost per character slot, it was pretty steep. In a game where you can do virtually everything on one character, you still had to choose a class in the MUD for example, extra slots ARE a luxury and it makes even more sense, and since the subscription fee is slightly lower than industry average, bonus.
It seems silly to me to not play a game because you only get 1 character slot, especially when you *could* pay for more and simply break even on the industry average, at least try the game and decide based on that rather than some arbitrary limitation. Its about equivalent to not being able to use red hair on an avatar, sure its kind of annoying but trivial with everything else still unexplored.
Edit: Not only did Hya beat me to the punch on that comment, he managed to post twice. I R long winded even in type.
Personally I think the one character slot is something desperately needed for more games simply to force people to establish SOME kind of permanent identity for their actions and I'm excited to try out FFXIV. I used to be an extreme altoholic so I can sympatheize, but I just spent the last 2 years of when I was playing WoW on one char only and I've simply lost the appeal of playing alts, but in the end to each their own.
What do you mean "at least"? I'd rather have the chance to do something than not have a chance at all.
But yes, I'd rather it be free, it would be the best choice. I don't think not having an option at all would be the 2nd best choice though.
Hard to fight the "If i won't/can't buy it, then nobody should have that option" mentality people have in this genre. Although I think that's a pretty solid observation, the option is better than the lack regardless of how its offered, barring anything deliberately insulting anyway.
Yep, and thats why I assume SE thinks they can get away with it.
They offer something that other MMO's currently don't- you can play any class on any race, and can change classes at will- and they also give you the Option to play with more characters.
1+1, it is better than what other MMO's currently offer, but of course it wouldn't be hard to make it even better by making the extra characters free too. But right now, with no competition.. they're using their chance, heh.
It's really a fault of other companies for not figuring out this stuff sooner really. It's such a simple thing, but because the "standard" is that you can't have a choice, no game does it. Everyone is shooting themselves in the foot like that. And SE reaps the rewards.
Back to the original premise of the OP, I'd have to say he's drawn an incorrect conclusion (or at least one that can't be reasonably substantiated) from the information at hand. The lead developer didn't unequivocally reject the idea of micro transactions, he left the door open should the demand surface one day. No one can predict whether the market will demand them despite the heartfelt convictions of a few of the fans here.
As for not needing more than one character I can think of one instance right off the top. Will FFXIV have open world bosses that spawn on a randomized timer? If so, players will want an alt character to be able to camp the spawn point so they can check on it on a regular basis.
Is paying for an additional character a microtransaction, a macro transaction or a cash shop transaction? What difference does it make what you call it, it is still an additional fee for a service above and beyond the original fee.
Some folks can't see the forest for the trees.
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Too many cooks in the kitchen. If the choice isn't made because there's no money, its because there's too much risk, or heck because the guy with the vision says you can't.
At least as far as race/class selections go that's one of the biggest and most visceral choices players make in the game. I can imagine that guy who wanted to play X class or Y race and couldn't play them together never feels as attached to the game as simply giving them that option. I suppose offering the more unusual choices as pay options servers as an artificial limitation on how many there are... but with the current mind set so strongly, at least evidenced by these forums, against microtranscation/cashshops in any form that likely would backfire worse than it would help. In general I'm not sure exactly how the whole microtransaction thing stands with the general gaming populace, it does seem to be popular with developers though.
Players may want that, but its not necessary. Players want many things, alts are one of those situations which can create really unusual situations like bank mules, auction house bots, look outs etc. SE is trying something a little different at least with a built in mule like character per account, but no I don't think its strictly necessary to use alts to make scouting for potentially valuable world bosses.
We'll see. Since you don't need an Alt like you do in other games, I could frankly see alts being a very niche market for SE. Most people will be fine with their main character they can build however they like.
What I have described as account services predate the use of the word 'microtransaction' in the MMO genre and were actually called 'account services' back then. Name changes and server transfers have also been something of an industry standard for some time now so by your own use of that to exclude expansions, these services must also be excluded. Like I said in my initial post, the term 'microtransaction' was used to distract attention away from the cash-shop-like business practice that companies like Cryptic, SOE and Blizzard were beginning to test the waters with. Most players know all forms of additional charge under the umbrella term of microtransaction purely because that's how devs have marketed it; it was a ploy to escape the negative image of cash shops.
Also I haven't tried to suggest that they aren't charging money for something extra but there is a fundamental difference when compared to the likes of Blizzard, Cryptic or SOE: these additional character slots are not necessary and SE is doing nothing to encourage you to purchase one, if anything they discourage it. The majority of people playing FFXI had no need of an additional character slot, the entire game is built around being able to experience everything there is on that one character alone. Altaholics could just switch jobs; the different jobs on that one character could easily function as alts. The only reason the additional slots are on offer is because ignorant people would be even more unreasonably outraged over it if the single slot was all they would ever get. The option is better than no option at all.
SE want everyone to only be playing one character; there is no reason to need to play more than that. The fact that they have implemented retainers (replacing the single reason anyone ever bought an additional slot for XI, storage) shows this better than anything - they do not want people to play alts! The fee is a win/win situation for them as it discourages their use whilst simultaneously providing them with a profit should anyone be desperate enough to need one for some reason. They don't expect many people to pay the extra at all.
You're completely missing the point, which is understandable since Hyanmen brought this thread of conversation far off topic to the realm of Lord of the Rings Online as an attempt to nullify my opinion. This isnt a matter of something that can/wont be bought, it's him whining that you cant be every class with every race in LOTRO and claiming that if I can stand THAT then I shouldnt be complaining about 1 character slot in FF. They are completely different complaints and really have nothing to do with each other. Regardless, in its current form (since release), you can play every race and every class with a single subscription for 10 dollars a month. So you can't be a hobbit Captain. Who cares?
I admit I skipped a few pages, but is anyone else not completely shocked by the way this thread turned out?
Anyone that knows anything about SE and plays MMORPGs should know the payment model of FFXI. This is the same payment model with a little inflation on the additional character slots. Is a $2 additional charge over the previous game a bit much? maybe. Is it the same model and therefore should have been expected? yes. The thing is I don't remember people claiming FFXI had microtransactions for the last 7-8 years. Maybe I missed it.
Excellent argument.
See, I dont buy that. Not for a millisecond.
If they WANTED everyone to play only a single character, the races would be cosmetic in nature only. Instead, the races make distinct differences to your stats and what jobs you excel at according to what I have read. If this is untrue and race doesn't change anything, then I'll of course rescind my statement.
Not right now, they don't.