They still accepting applications to join beta? I'm about to es'plode from boredom here.
Douuuubt it.
But this test is really Beta. It's hard to enjoy the game as it is tbh.
I just wish they'd fix that ATI GPU stuttering problem..
Shit.
Guess i'll play Diablo 2 for the 50-millionth time then.
The only reason I didn't apply before is because I was trying out for a QA position again, and they don't allow you to be in any betas outside what you're working on. It's not gonna happen now, so I want in. I have no problem with a broken game, it's better than *no* game, and I'm one to actually submit bugs here and there.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Dang that is not a bad idea GT I might just reinstall D2 on my computer and play it, I have the expansion and all, is that still being actively played?
etc. I have multiple 75s in FFXI. However, I played back when I was a fat kid in grade 10. It is now almost 7 years later for me and I've come a long way.....
Taking 6 people to kill meaningless monsters is not gonna sell =/
I think it can take 6 players to kill a meaningless monster in WoW if it is many times more powerful than an individual player.
Does anyone know if once you select and attack a mob, it locks you onto it? As in you are always auto facing it and can't quite run around freely?
I dont know that but it wasnt that way in 11 so dont see why they would do it in 14 tho but thats just my personal guess without any evidence to back it up.
I did see a video of a fight tho which looked like u can free move again.
Does anyone know if once you select and attack a mob, it locks you onto it? As in you are always auto facing it and can't quite run around freely?
Since they're putting so much emphasis on things like location, range, area of effect, party vs party etc. as part of the battle strategy, it seems only logical that a certain amount of freedom of movement is needed.
Go play a game like WoW? I haven't even played FF XI, but I sincerely hope that they keep the grouping focused play because it is unique among the current selection of MMORPGs, and the people I know that play that game love that grouping is necessary.
It depends, not everyone love grouping if they have a choice. People are happy to get into a group b/c they will be sitting idle otherwise. There is nothing to do in that game if you do not have the right group.
Go play a game like WoW? I haven't even played FF XI, but I sincerely hope that they keep the grouping focused play because it is unique among the current selection of MMORPGs, and the people I know that play that game love that grouping is necessary.
The first part of your post really isn't appropriate and is incredibly immature. World of Warcraft, despite it's flaws, isn't the easiest game in the world and to denigrate the game by using it as some sort of pejorative is just not cool. If you want to tell the OP to play a game that you think is, to perhaps oversimplify, 'bad and far too easy,' tell them to play something like Maple Story or some free- or pseudo-free-to-play game. If you want to take shots at World of Warcraft do so legitimately, take a shot at Blizzard.
That said, even though I am unlikely to play FFXIV I do agree with you that they should all but force grouping. (note: FoV makes soloing viable for all jobs but if you really are out to do this for any other reason than time constraints you aren't going to have a good time.) This is what FFXI does and games like it do, period, and folks need to accept that it is what it is and that it isn't necessarily bad. The problem with the forced grouping in FFXI is that it really is non-sensical. We have a litle joke, both former and current players of FFXI, that 'no matter who you are, no matter how badass your jobs, somewhere out there is a rarab that can kick your ass!' This is what the OP is emphasising, not the forced grouping but that it is largely meaningless for mobs as trivial as rabbits to be amped up on methamphetamines, angeldust and steroids and require a full party destroy.
Personally, I'd like to go further and say that it also shouldn't require de facto party compositions to take down certain non-NM monster either, and it largely doesn't, but that is simply the mindset that has become part of this party mechanic. Because even rabbits can rival the power of God (it's hyperbole but not terribly far off) players what parties to be constructed in a very specific way to make the inevitable 3+ hours of inputting the same commands over and over more effective. It is important to notice that fun isn't a part of that, not usually, and this is a problem too.
The only really good thing that can come out of forced grouping is a much greater chance of having a legitimate and tighter community and stronger bonds being generated between players. After all, if you're spending hours staring at largely the same thing on the screen (except the text) you're likely to talk to break the monotony. The more you talk the more you're likely to get to know the people you play with and the more likely you are to party together again.
There are some definite pros and cons to be looked at here and they are rather strong on both sides. Square-Enix can do something great here if they find a way to make forced grouping work, which is what I think they will do, but folks are definitely in for a rude awakening if they think that S-E is going to make changes to what they invision for their product. That is simply how S-E operates, for good and for ill, in a straight line and with little direction from outside influence. It should be clear to players of FFXI that this is the case and this is something that should inform their decision to play FFXIV. (I could, of course, substantiate this claim but I think I have done that in other places here and it would make this post too long. Those that have experienced the game know that it isn't exactly player-friendly, for several reasons, and that those who experience the game now are aware of just how long it took for S-E to do what they did.)
All I meant by "a game like WoW" was that you can play most of the game by yourself. I can't even understand how you got that I was insulting the OP or saying WoW was an easy game out of that short (and I thought to the point) post. This isn't about "difficulty" it's about community and what I've heard about FF XI from people who enjoy the game.
Didn't have any intention of upsetting people on here. I have already admitted I haven't even played the darn game, I have just heard from my friends who have played that they enjoyed the fact that grouping was required. If most people would rather have something else fine, but there's no reason to go calling me names and getting all upset over my opinion. I think it's unique to have an MMORPG that has so much grouping required among the current options available.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Uh huh, so a 6-foot crab = the kind you accidently step on at the beach?
Sheep were only in the early levels too, and soloable.
When you make up stuff like this, I dare you to try harder.
I beg to differ, Irate Sheep, lvl 82-85 for the new Abyssea, which take an 18-man alliance to take them down:
Expect there to still be group play in FFXIV, maybe not as much as XI required, but it will be there throughout the entire journey.
Some good ole Dodo PTing and my goodness the tank must be a player...listen to all that button spamming. You only need to press the button once; when your ability is available again....sheesh!
I have multiple 75s in FFXI. However, I played back when I was a fat kid in grade 10. It is now almost 7 years later for me and I've come a long way.....
Taking 6 people to kill meaningless monsters is not gonna sell =/
I played ffxi for about 4 years the only thing they should have done differntly was maybe change the looks of the mobs. A level 5 crab looks the same as a level 70 crab, maybe a color change but most of the time not. It was far from meaningless, It was all about XP. In comarision its just like all the meaningless quests in any quest driven mmo.
and btw some people actually liked grouping in ffxi.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Personally, I'm hoping for having to group a lot. If I wanted a single player game, I'd go play FF13 or something. An MMO is about the connections you make with other players.
They've already said that you can solo portions of the game, but I don't think you should be able to solo all the way to the cap, what fun is that? Some of the best times I've had in MMOs were back in EQ1 when you'd have to group and grind mobs for hours on end, and you'd get a laugh chatting with the people in group chat between pulls while waiting for mana to regen. By the sounds of it, since the combat system is slower, you can probably keep conversations going between attacks.
I had a few friends pass on Xi when they watched me kill crabs with 5 other people. It's just not gonna sell; especially not to my girl who's been playing WoW for a while and used to seeing parties for dragons and such.
Hopefully the combat system picks up a bit more than what we've been seeing in the beta/alpha videos, right now it looks like Final Fantasy XI reskinned.
Final Fantasy is my all time favorite rpg series but I'm inclined to agree if someone told me we needed a full group to kill a crab or a sheep I would totally pass it's the anti nerd in me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
i dont get it why people takes it at heart that they make a group to kill a trash mob that its way higher lv than they are,,,,,
The lv cap on beta is really low ,,, dodo and sheep are trash mobs,,,. So what if they group to kill them , this doesnt mean anythin. Is like if on wow you would group to kill mobs for solo exping but 20 lv ahead of yourself.What it looks to me if that they trying to group grind this mobs for higher exp like on FFXI.
But really this means nothin apart than to c how the battle -group looks like on the beta.FFXI was a group-grind fest game and there will be some of it as well on FFXIV, but there will be options for the soloers in some way of daily quests.It will be a lot more solo friendly , but it will leave the option for group maniacs as well.
This game is aiming for more casual players or so they said many times, so no it wont take 6 to kill everythin on game.
One of the most entertaining moments when my friends and I started FFXI was a sheep song wipe. That is really funny that someone else feels that pain. "Heal me!" "HEAL ME!" "Can't. I'm counting sheep atm ... zzzzz"
It appears that many many players here never played the original Final Fantasy XI, including the nerd rager that's been posting many times in this thread and following me around.
In Final Fantasy XI, in Valkrum Dunes, there were early PTs for bunnies, sheep, crabs, goblins, and worms. You know what gets kinda old? 6 people, towering over a midget goblin, and slamming stuff on it. Final Fantasy XI was a great game, I have many many memories from it however....I could not, for the life of me, get my RL friends into it. Everyone liked what I talked about, but when I showed them the gameplay the following things were immediate turn offs
1. Painfuly slow combat
2. 6 people to kill meaningless monsters to level up
Lets forget "WoW" for now, since people seem to have some fetish in trying to bash WoW to make themselves feel better about their lives, lets use Lineage 2 or Aion as an example. In Lineage 2, partying for level 40 involved 6ish people kiting around monsters 2-3 times your size while everyone whacks him. In Aion, the same applied. The monsters were menacing looking, generally twice your side, and had weapons (including their teeth) bigger than you or the same size as you. It made it appear, artistically, that you NEEDED more than one person to take it down.
And you wanna bring up the "try killing a sheep IRL" comment? Sure, I'll take a gun, point it to the sheep's head, and it's GG. This has NOTHING to do with IRL. It's all about art sense and immersion.
I played Final Fantasy XI when I was 16 up until I was 18. I'm now 23, my MMORPG virgnity was taken away a long time ago. I'm NOT going to be satsified with slow combat and 6 people to take down obese chickens as shown in that video.
Guess we'll see what the reviews say....seeing as how Square-Enix managed to piss off many people with Final Fantasy XIII, I'm starting to wonder if they can please anyone at all.
I'm all for grouping but it has to be realistic. I mean, there is no reason why a sheep or a dodo bird should require 6 people to kill it.
Now, a big troll or an ettin or an ogre or whatever requiring a group, that I can understand but a dodo bird? Really?
Attacking in MMOs I really view as like I have in DnD. You are bettering your position with each attack, the mob could be elusive or just difficult to corner for a clean hit. I view the killing blow as the person that actually got an attack through defenses of a mob to end the mobs life. I know if I attacked a 6 foot tall bird, sword or not, it would be a bit before I got in a killing blow. Not to mention a few pecks for the trying.
i Still fail to see the point of everyone judging the game by a video made by beta testers without even more than 2-3 abilities each, and with only this to show ( by no means bashing the people from the vid).
I dont think i would be breaking any NDA rule saying that acording to SE, they didnt show half of the actual content of what is made for FFXIV on the beta, including races-classes-areas enemies etc.
Also i would like to point out the alpha version battle sistem was way worse, so if it keeps on improving i will be satisfied.I really like the part were you dont have Auto atack, so you really have to be on the ball 24/7, and is why i made a coment about this game made for gamepad instead of keyboard-mouse on a diferent thread,but is just my personal point of view becouse it really hurts my hand when playing it out long time on wasd+ mouse.
If still not convinced well i really cant say anymore without breaking the NDA, it just a diferent than the standar for MMORPG out there right now, some people will like it , some hate it . Cant please everyone.
I'm all for grouping but it has to be realistic. I mean, there is no reason why a sheep or a dodo bird should require 6 people to kill it.
Now, a big troll or an ettin or an ogre or whatever requiring a group, that I can understand but a dodo bird? Really?
Attacking in MMOs I really view as like I have in DnD. You are bettering your position with each attack, the mob could be elusive or just difficult to corner for a clean hit. I view the killing blow as the person that actually got an attack through defenses of a mob to end the mobs life. I know if I attacked a 6 foot tall bird, sword or not, it would be a bit before I got in a killing blow. Not to mention a few pecks for the trying.
END OF LINE_
~V
so its safe to assume Final Fantasy follows the DnD rules?
I'm all for grouping but it has to be realistic. I mean, there is no reason why a sheep or a dodo bird should require 6 people to kill it.
Now, a big troll or an ettin or an ogre or whatever requiring a group, that I can understand but a dodo bird? Really?
Attacking in MMOs I really view as like I have in DnD. You are bettering your position with each attack, the mob could be elusive or just difficult to corner for a clean hit. I view the killing blow as the person that actually got an attack through defenses of a mob to end the mobs life. I know if I attacked a 6 foot tall bird, sword or not, it would be a bit before I got in a killing blow. Not to mention a few pecks for the trying.
END OF LINE_
~V
I hate to say it but a six foot bird wouldn't really be that hard to kill with a sword so long as you actually mean to kill it, hell you can kill a seven foot man with one swing of a sword.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
For quite a few people in this thread its a complete....
Whoosh!
Right over your heads about the point of the OP. He is not degrading grouping so quit bringing that up. It's the point of grouping up with fellow players and fighting creatures (though maybe bigger than real life counterpart to some degree) that completely take away from the feeling such a fight should instill. I believe he is like I in the fact that he played FFXI during its early days. And sitting there fighting crabs for hours for XP that were being pounded by group bigger than its size by many times, magical spells, etc was a bit of an immersion breaker and sometimes felt outright silly.
That is all he is talking about. He is not bashing grouping so get off the defensive fence and actual go by what the guy is saying and lend your thoughts/opinions. Sometimes folks act as if they are the game designers and get defensive at the drop of a dime.
I agree with the OP. While the reward and the feeling of fullfilmentof gaining that new level was always great for the work put in...it felt silly fighting sometimes looking at what we were fighting. But let's face it, that was years ago technology/gaming wise. I'm sure they can and hopefully will bring something more to the table this time. I even tried returning last year but couldn't even get into the solo stages at the beginning because I was chasing down the 'Bunnies of Doom!' Really has nothing to do with gameplay in that instance for me. Just the immersion. Unless I'm Elmer Fudd I'm just not threatened by a rabbit.
Okay I am responding to this with a non - mmo response... I will be damned if I would ever participate in any fantasy role playing ...say for instance table top Dungeons and Dragons if my DM kept throwing my group of six players up against sheep and chickens. It is lame, even as trash mobs.
I was hyped for FFXI and after a couple of months playing and seeing the same 6 "monsters" over and over and over that looked exactly alike with just ever growing HPs, I said screw it. Yes group incentives are nice but when a farmer has to ask 6 adventurers to slay the chicken or sheep or fish just so he can feed his family it becomes a bit ridiculous.
Not to mention 6 well armed magic weilding adventurers still takes 15 minutes to kill a barnyard critter... it just isn't heroic and it still puzzles me to know what kind of people find this fun.
Comments
Douuuubt it.
But this test is really Beta. It's hard to enjoy the game as it is tbh.
I just wish they'd fix that ATI GPU stuttering problem..
Shit.
Guess i'll play Diablo 2 for the 50-millionth time then.
The only reason I didn't apply before is because I was trying out for a QA position again, and they don't allow you to be in any betas outside what you're working on. It's not gonna happen now, so I want in. I have no problem with a broken game, it's better than *no* game, and I'm one to actually submit bugs here and there.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Dang that is not a bad idea GT I might just reinstall D2 on my computer and play it, I have the expansion and all, is that still being actively played?
There is *always* someone playing D2, I for one just don't take it online, screw those people.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I think it can take 6 players to kill a meaningless monster in WoW if it is many times more powerful than an individual player.Does anyone know if once you select and attack a mob, it locks you onto it? As in you are always auto facing it and can't quite run around freely?
I dont know that but it wasnt that way in 11 so dont see why they would do it in 14 tho but thats just my personal guess without any evidence to back it up.
I did see a video of a fight tho which looked like u can free move again.
Since they're putting so much emphasis on things like location, range, area of effect, party vs party etc. as part of the battle strategy, it seems only logical that a certain amount of freedom of movement is needed.
It depends, not everyone love grouping if they have a choice. People are happy to get into a group b/c they will be sitting idle otherwise. There is nothing to do in that game if you do not have the right group.
Ohnoes Sheep Song....
Group Wipe.
/end thread
All I meant by "a game like WoW" was that you can play most of the game by yourself. I can't even understand how you got that I was insulting the OP or saying WoW was an easy game out of that short (and I thought to the point) post. This isn't about "difficulty" it's about community and what I've heard about FF XI from people who enjoy the game.
Didn't have any intention of upsetting people on here. I have already admitted I haven't even played the darn game, I have just heard from my friends who have played that they enjoyed the fact that grouping was required. If most people would rather have something else fine, but there's no reason to go calling me names and getting all upset over my opinion. I think it's unique to have an MMORPG that has so much grouping required among the current options available.
--------------------------
Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
the dodo fight looks painfully slow like..take a nap in between attacks slow.
I played ffxi for about 4 years the only thing they should have done differntly was maybe change the looks of the mobs. A level 5 crab looks the same as a level 70 crab, maybe a color change but most of the time not. It was far from meaningless, It was all about XP. In comarision its just like all the meaningless quests in any quest driven mmo.
and btw some people actually liked grouping in ffxi.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Personally, I'm hoping for having to group a lot. If I wanted a single player game, I'd go play FF13 or something. An MMO is about the connections you make with other players.
They've already said that you can solo portions of the game, but I don't think you should be able to solo all the way to the cap, what fun is that? Some of the best times I've had in MMOs were back in EQ1 when you'd have to group and grind mobs for hours on end, and you'd get a laugh chatting with the people in group chat between pulls while waiting for mana to regen. By the sounds of it, since the combat system is slower, you can probably keep conversations going between attacks.
I'm all for grouping but it has to be realistic. I mean, there is no reason why a sheep or a dodo bird should require 6 people to kill it.
Now, a big troll or an ettin or an ogre or whatever requiring a group, that I can understand but a dodo bird? Really?
Final Fantasy is my all time favorite rpg series but I'm inclined to agree if someone told me we needed a full group to kill a crab or a sheep I would totally pass it's the anti nerd in me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
i dont get it why people takes it at heart that they make a group to kill a trash mob that its way higher lv than they are,,,,,
The lv cap on beta is really low ,,, dodo and sheep are trash mobs,,,. So what if they group to kill them , this doesnt mean anythin. Is like if on wow you would group to kill mobs for solo exping but 20 lv ahead of yourself.What it looks to me if that they trying to group grind this mobs for higher exp like on FFXI.
But really this means nothin apart than to c how the battle -group looks like on the beta.FFXI was a group-grind fest game and there will be some of it as well on FFXIV, but there will be options for the soloers in some way of daily quests.It will be a lot more solo friendly , but it will leave the option for group maniacs as well.
This game is aiming for more casual players or so they said many times, so no it wont take 6 to kill everythin on game.
One of the most entertaining moments when my friends and I started FFXI was a sheep song wipe. That is really funny that someone else feels that pain. "Heal me!" "HEAL ME!" "Can't. I'm counting sheep atm ... zzzzz"
END OF LINE_
~V
It appears that many many players here never played the original Final Fantasy XI, including the nerd rager that's been posting many times in this thread and following me around.
In Final Fantasy XI, in Valkrum Dunes, there were early PTs for bunnies, sheep, crabs, goblins, and worms. You know what gets kinda old? 6 people, towering over a midget goblin, and slamming stuff on it. Final Fantasy XI was a great game, I have many many memories from it however....I could not, for the life of me, get my RL friends into it. Everyone liked what I talked about, but when I showed them the gameplay the following things were immediate turn offs
1. Painfuly slow combat
2. 6 people to kill meaningless monsters to level up
Lets forget "WoW" for now, since people seem to have some fetish in trying to bash WoW to make themselves feel better about their lives, lets use Lineage 2 or Aion as an example. In Lineage 2, partying for level 40 involved 6ish people kiting around monsters 2-3 times your size while everyone whacks him. In Aion, the same applied. The monsters were menacing looking, generally twice your side, and had weapons (including their teeth) bigger than you or the same size as you. It made it appear, artistically, that you NEEDED more than one person to take it down.
And you wanna bring up the "try killing a sheep IRL" comment? Sure, I'll take a gun, point it to the sheep's head, and it's GG. This has NOTHING to do with IRL. It's all about art sense and immersion.
I played Final Fantasy XI when I was 16 up until I was 18. I'm now 23, my MMORPG virgnity was taken away a long time ago. I'm NOT going to be satsified with slow combat and 6 people to take down obese chickens as shown in that video.
Guess we'll see what the reviews say....seeing as how Square-Enix managed to piss off many people with Final Fantasy XIII, I'm starting to wonder if they can please anyone at all.
Attacking in MMOs I really view as like I have in DnD. You are bettering your position with each attack, the mob could be elusive or just difficult to corner for a clean hit. I view the killing blow as the person that actually got an attack through defenses of a mob to end the mobs life. I know if I attacked a 6 foot tall bird, sword or not, it would be a bit before I got in a killing blow. Not to mention a few pecks for the trying.
END OF LINE_
~V
i Still fail to see the point of everyone judging the game by a video made by beta testers without even more than 2-3 abilities each, and with only this to show ( by no means bashing the people from the vid).
I dont think i would be breaking any NDA rule saying that acording to SE, they didnt show half of the actual content of what is made for FFXIV on the beta, including races-classes-areas enemies etc.
Also i would like to point out the alpha version battle sistem was way worse, so if it keeps on improving i will be satisfied.I really like the part were you dont have Auto atack, so you really have to be on the ball 24/7, and is why i made a coment about this game made for gamepad instead of keyboard-mouse on a diferent thread,but is just my personal point of view becouse it really hurts my hand when playing it out long time on wasd+ mouse.
If still not convinced well i really cant say anymore without breaking the NDA, it just a diferent than the standar for MMORPG out there right now, some people will like it , some hate it . Cant please everyone.
so its safe to assume Final Fantasy follows the DnD rules?
I hate to say it but a six foot bird wouldn't really be that hard to kill with a sword so long as you actually mean to kill it, hell you can kill a seven foot man with one swing of a sword.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
For quite a few people in this thread its a complete....
Whoosh!
Right over your heads about the point of the OP. He is not degrading grouping so quit bringing that up. It's the point of grouping up with fellow players and fighting creatures (though maybe bigger than real life counterpart to some degree) that completely take away from the feeling such a fight should instill. I believe he is like I in the fact that he played FFXI during its early days. And sitting there fighting crabs for hours for XP that were being pounded by group bigger than its size by many times, magical spells, etc was a bit of an immersion breaker and sometimes felt outright silly.
That is all he is talking about. He is not bashing grouping so get off the defensive fence and actual go by what the guy is saying and lend your thoughts/opinions. Sometimes folks act as if they are the game designers and get defensive at the drop of a dime.
I agree with the OP. While the reward and the feeling of fullfilmentof gaining that new level was always great for the work put in...it felt silly fighting sometimes looking at what we were fighting. But let's face it, that was years ago technology/gaming wise. I'm sure they can and hopefully will bring something more to the table this time. I even tried returning last year but couldn't even get into the solo stages at the beginning because I was chasing down the 'Bunnies of Doom!' Really has nothing to do with gameplay in that instance for me. Just the immersion. Unless I'm Elmer Fudd I'm just not threatened by a rabbit.
Okay I am responding to this with a non - mmo response... I will be damned if I would ever participate in any fantasy role playing ...say for instance table top Dungeons and Dragons if my DM kept throwing my group of six players up against sheep and chickens. It is lame, even as trash mobs.
I was hyped for FFXI and after a couple of months playing and seeing the same 6 "monsters" over and over and over that looked exactly alike with just ever growing HPs, I said screw it. Yes group incentives are nice but when a farmer has to ask 6 adventurers to slay the chicken or sheep or fish just so he can feed his family it becomes a bit ridiculous.
Not to mention 6 well armed magic weilding adventurers still takes 15 minutes to kill a barnyard critter... it just isn't heroic and it still puzzles me to know what kind of people find this fun.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk