Personally, I could care less if its a mini game so long as I'm not forced to take part. I've never much liked space combat simulators. The z axis majorly messes with my head and I can't seem to orient myself easily after.
Its Star Wars, which is a major plus in my book. I love Star Wars and have since I was 5 years old. Its Bioware whom I consider the best game company on the planet.
But will it be good? I hope so. Honestly, I'm... worried. And not because of anything I've been shown in any of the video's or any info on the game thats been released. In fact, all thats been released looks good to me.
But here's the thing... I've played so many MMO's. I've beta'd a bunch. ALL of the ones I beta'd turned out to be a major disappointment to me. Though I really must say that LOTRO has so massively improved that its almost an entirely different game and I currently have an active account with them (unless I get a reply to all our concerns from the devs at EQ2, that account will end on the 27th).
One of my major MMO's that I was really looking forward to this year was Star Trek. I love it too, almost as much as I love Star Wars. And honestly, I beta'd it and was so massively disappointed that I honestly could not bring myself to buy the game, much less subscribe. In fact, I'd advise anyone against paying for that massive piece of garbage (long story as to why I hate it, and thats a separate topic so I won't address it here).
I WANT SWTOR to be good. Really really bad. Its Bioware. I don't think they'll blow it. Doesn't mean I'm right. I'm not looking for a replacement for SWG, just a good Star Wars universe that I can be a part of. Will it? I don't know. So I'm keeping my praise and my negativity in check and saying "I just don't know and we'll see".
Great Expectations? No. I don't have those. Only fools have those in either direction. Lets just say.. I face it with trepidation and we'll leave it at that. I'm actually frightened that they will blow it like what happened to Star Trek.
You should of titled the article "Lowered Expectations"
bioware is king of single player rpg's, yes we know! and........ THIS ISNT A FUCKING SINGLE PLAYER RPG!
this is a mmorpg they are trying to create and all you blind bioware fanatics are just going around "i dont care about this or that, i just want a fun bioware game!" well good job, cause thats what were gonna get. a nice fun single player bioware rpg and you get the joy of paying for this fun single player game every month! oh and you can group with a few buddies too, if you have any. if your a wandering mmo vet like me all your oldschool mmo friends are all scattered out across the board.
i was hyped up out the ass when BW announced SWTOR. and ive watched the downward spiral the entire time. from the interviews, videos, articles, every piece of media this game has released all ive seen is bland linear crap that ive been playing for the last 10 years.
I remember one of the first interviews about swtor the dude answering the questions stated they wanted to blend the world of linear and sandbox together in creating SWTOR. where the fuck is the sandbox part?! sure as fuck aint in space, sure as fuck aint on systems. all ive seen is talk to guy, have long epic conversations, go kill mob, rinse repeat.
a lot of us old time mmo'ers are explorers. we got into this genre because we were tired of console games putting us on a track from start to finish. we wanted the restrictions removed. UO and EQ1 took off the rails. You could wander anywhere anytime you wanted and do anything. Players drove the world, and now gaming companies have successfully been mashing linear console gameplay into what is suppsed to be a vast open ended virtual world.
all you people and your sandbox is fuckin boring arguement can go take a flying leap. no, no it wasnt. what makes it boring for you is you are so dependent on the producing company to hold your hand and pat you on the head regularly going GOOD BOY! YOU DID A QUEST! HERES SOME CANDY! that when a game comes out that gives you total freedom of choice your like DUR.....
and i was hoping with SWTOR that the sandbox elements they were supposedly implementing was gonna be the freedom of exploration. i mean its fuckin star wars for fucks sake. An entire universe to see and experience. And yeah, the space combat looks real fun, how can it not be? console games are real fun for a while, star fox.
but... this is supposed to be a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. and sometimes in star wars people went into space for other reasons then to "blow shit up".
bioware makes great single player games, they should of stayed where they belong. blizzard made great single player games too, but those games had a multiplayer element with them that taught them how to incorporate their style into the mmo world.
im gonna buy the game myself when it launches because im bored with the whole mmo scene. all the games are the same with a different name. so ill settle with the fun bioware kotor sequel online because nothing I or any of you say will change the product were gonna get handed in 2011.
So....... this whole entire rant you just wasted your time on, only to then say, "I'm gonna buy it"..... WOW... just.......wow.
I'm going to start by saying I think this was one of Mikes better written articles, especially over the past few articles he's released.
Now, I've got to ask, why do people think that this type of gameplay cannot be expanded later on. I've got to pose this specifically to Mike, as it appear he has founded his opinion on something -- maybe inside information -- or something that I do not know. As BioWare has already mentioned, they plan on adding PvP, and more multiplayer capabilities, so this leads me to ask the question on how this is possible with a "run of the mill" rail shooter.
Next, if you weren't expecting JTLS, and you weren't expecting X-Wing vs Tie, but you wanted more then a Rail Shooter, what exactly are we expecting here? Pay very close attention to the gameplay you are looking at when you watch that video. What do you actually see? You see astroids being nearly missed, you see lasers flying by, and you see very fast paced gameplay indicative of a cinematic style experience. The gameplay captures specifically the excitement of star wars space combat. This isn't something that was prevalent in JTLS, even in all its glory. Sure you'd have some great missions, incoming fighters here and there, but there would also be times where you would be flying for many minutes without anything happening at all.
To that, I feel BioWare is directing this gameplay to accentuate the good areas like the action oriented combat while taking out the lengthy, time consuming, boring parts.
The space combat does look like alot of fun, and adding it as either a mini game or not is no issue for me.
With the devs telling us the game is bigger than all of their previous titles put together, there really is going to be more content than you can shake a stick at.
I too played SWG from the start, I enjoyed it but loathed the sandbox element of the game and actually enjoyed the massive changes they made to the game.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bottom line - when you strip the starwars theme , and Bioware name -
what is SWTOR having to show for ?
Positive:
1. Completely voiced content
2. CRPG style quests
3. Dialogue choices
Negative
1. Old fashion MMO combat
2. Toony graphic ( not in spirit of Star Wars for grown ups )
3. Heavy focus on soloing
4. Same (Named) companions following every player
5. Game uses the same principles behind single player RPGs having same story for each player
6. Space combat is singleplayer only
7. It feels like Bioware is trying to copy their single player game and slap multiplayer brand on it.
On the end negative heavily outweight the positive aspects.
And its hurting the game now, and it will hurt it in a long run.
Its also very obvious that SWTOR is nothing else but rehash of same ol' formula Bioware is pushing in all its recent games.
But this time they added possibility to play with friends. This does not feel like MMO. And in no way it feels like MMO 2011.
Your points are well taken and most likely true. But I have one question. How many million boxes do you think they will sell? I figure they will make most if not all of their money back on box sales alone.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
As a SWG player since beta who lived through the entire NGE debockle before I eventually quit never to return, my expectattions are pretty low. I am excited because I love Bioware but I expect LA to do a bit of content c**k blocking eventually just like they did to SOE. Yes, there was a point when SWG was looking up. That said, I am also disapponted in the space portion of the game thus far. One of the best parts of Jump To Lightspeed was the vastness of the space zones and being able to just explore space for hours. Also, did anyone else notice the lack of barrel rolls in the new video? It looks like the space portion of Lego Star Wars with better skin. It looks fun for short time but too simple for an MMO. I sure hope I turn out to be wrong. The ground game looks pretty solid thoug. If it turns out to be KOTOR with a little multplayer I think people will enjoy it for a while but eventually it will run it's course.
Oy, guys... stop using the "cartoony graphics" as an excuse. ALL MMO's have cartoony graphics by their very nature. Its just cartoons of different styles.
As for a free trial, then you'll be waiting until at least 6 months after the game is released to try it. Free trials never exist when the game is created. They only start after the mad rush to join initially is over.
You should of titled the article "Lowered Expectations"
bioware is king of single player rpg's, yes we know! and........ THIS ISNT A FUCKING SINGLE PLAYER RPG!
this is a mmorpg they are trying to create and all you blind bioware fanatics are just going around "i dont care about this or that, i just want a fun bioware game!" well good job, cause thats what were gonna get. a nice fun single player bioware rpg and you get the joy of paying for this fun single player game every month! oh and you can group with a few buddies too, if you have any. if your a wandering mmo vet like me all your oldschool mmo friends are all scattered out across the board.
i was hyped up out the ass when BW announced SWTOR. and ive watched the downward spiral the entire time. from the interviews, videos, articles, every piece of media this game has released all ive seen is bland linear crap that ive been playing for the last 10 years.
I remember one of the first interviews about swtor the dude answering the questions stated they wanted to blend the world of linear and sandbox together in creating SWTOR. where the fuck is the sandbox part?! sure as fuck aint in space, sure as fuck aint on systems. all ive seen is talk to guy, have long epic conversations, go kill mob, rinse repeat.
a lot of us old time mmo'ers are explorers. we got into this genre because we were tired of console games putting us on a track from start to finish. we wanted the restrictions removed. UO and EQ1 took off the rails. You could wander anywhere anytime you wanted and do anything. Players drove the world, and now gaming companies have successfully been mashing linear console gameplay into what is suppsed to be a vast open ended virtual world.
all you people and your sandbox is fuckin boring arguement can go take a flying leap. no, no it wasnt. what makes it boring for you is you are so dependent on the producing company to hold your hand and pat you on the head regularly going GOOD BOY! YOU DID A QUEST! HERES SOME CANDY! that when a game comes out that gives you total freedom of choice your like DUR.....
and i was hoping with SWTOR that the sandbox elements they were supposedly implementing was gonna be the freedom of exploration. i mean its fuckin star wars for fucks sake. An entire universe to see and experience. And yeah, the space combat looks real fun, how can it not be? console games are real fun for a while, star fox.
but... this is supposed to be a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. and sometimes in star wars people went into space for other reasons then to "blow shit up".
bioware makes great single player games, they should of stayed where they belong. blizzard made great single player games too, but those games had a multiplayer element with them that taught them how to incorporate their style into the mmo world.
im gonna buy the game myself when it launches because im bored with the whole mmo scene. all the games are the same with a different name. so ill settle with the fun bioware kotor sequel online because nothing I or any of you say will change the product were gonna get handed in 2011.
thats nice but ur making assumptions and alot of em. u could be right could be wrong. but ur also expecting alot from an mmorpg genre. Apprently u dont know whats involved to make an mmorpg and thats why ur expecting so much. You still can explore and do whatever and in any mmorpg go get some exploration achivements done in WoW and TOR never said it would be a full sanbox so dont cry about it. Look at what makes the mmorpg genre and what u want. u actually want more of a fall out 3 try it out but that game has quest if u want a sand box go play Darkfall but that has quest to but i know of some that dont but then thats called grind which everyone hates. Look at one of the things thats makes an mmorpg...an xp bar and lvls how do u get lvls by filling up the xp bard with xp how do u get xp? by doing things that give u xp such as quest dungeons pvp achivements etc. even fricking CoD and BC2 has xp bar. Take away that bar and still have an mmorpg? havent been seen yet. Would the game ur talking about come out? maybe and i would like that game ur looking for but there isnt one. and from what i see not for a while Tera is supposed to be the next gen mmo but it has everything that makes an mmorpg quest grind xp baretc . but it also has alot of diff features like every other mmorpg trys to differ themselves different from the rest of the mmorpg genre. just like CoD and BF2 for FPS or Starcraft and C&C for RTS. All the games are the same cuz there all the same genre there all mmorpgs! Just like RTS and FPS have been the same for years and year and YEARS! yet we still play them but each one has a new idea and thats what evolves genres each genre has its own elements which makes the genre. u cant have a FPS without some sort of weapon. or u cant have a RTS without some sort of base. Do u understand what im trying to say here?
Bottom line - when you strip the starwars theme , and Bioware name -
what is SWTOR having to show for ?
Positive:
1. Completely voiced content
2. CRPG style quests
3. Dialogue choices
Negative
1. Old fashion MMO combat
Old fashioned how? Through there being no auto attack and having to plan out your skills, or is i because the combat is dynamically choreographed? Doesn't sound old fashioned to me.
2. Toony graphic ( not in spirit of Star Wars for grown ups )
When was star wars for grown ups? I see a bunch of muppets in every movie.
3. Heavy focus on soloing
And just as heavy of a focus on grouping. Grouping from level 1, overarching group only quests, extra rewards for groups.
4. Same (Named) companions following every player
But, every player has the option to use or not to use said companion.
5. Game uses the same principles behind single player RPGs having same story for each player
Whereas most MMOs rehash the same content for every class and race. Every race and class story is exactly the same where BioWares story allows you to change your story at every turn. Thats not even remotely close to any of the current MMOs out.
6. Space combat is singleplayer only
At this time, but they've already spoken at plans to expand it. Who knows, might even happen before Launch.
7. It feels like Bioware is trying to copy their single player game and slap multiplayer brand on it.
That was the entire point, to bring the level of polish of their single player titles to an MMO. Fortunately for us, they aren't calling a single player game an MMO, they are taking some of the best features of single player games and integrating them with an MMO.
On the end negative heavily outweight the positive aspects.
And its hurting the game now, and it will hurt it in a long run.
Its also very obvious that SWTOR is nothing else but rehash of same ol' formula Bioware is pushing in all its recent games.
But this time they added possibility to play with friends. This does not feel like MMO. And in no way it feels like MMO 2011.
It doesn't FEEL like an MMO? Even after all that time you spent playing it? Oh, no you didn't play it though, so how could it FEEL like an MMO to you? No matter what you say it "feels" like, I'll just cut to the chase and let you know, this game IS an MMO. I hope that clears it up for you.
Another whiny article about space combat?! COME ON!
Get over it and write some interesting stuff. I'm just about getting sick of all the whining and nagging on this particular subject. It's not important in this mmorpg. If you want to fly a ship, go play EVE. End of. SW:TOR is not a space flight game. It's not. NOT.
OKAY?! Ok.
It is OK to admit you don't get it.
But then this all speaks to something about SWTOR in particular. It is like picking a Pope. Lots of people with serious interest in what comes next. Most all of them are dissapointed their specific view isn't run-up the flag poll and made the next big thing.
SWTOR is a Star Wars IP. Some of us have lusted for a game we can't name or totally describe since the late 70s. MMOs are quickly evolving into second lives for many gamers, and thus, we want that other life to be as cool as it can be. No harm in that, no sin here. Space combat is hand-and-foot the Star Wars universe. There is one MMO with great space combat. There wasn't any reason NOT to expect the same here, if not at launch, then later. We may yet get something better than we are being given. But history does not favor that.
This game is a cross-roads of many coming at it from different angles. The SWG exiles waiting for a new home. The Bio-bois who would accept anything Bioware pumps out, even if it were a bag of dung with the logo on it. And there are the general MMO fans, WoWfugees, and Star Wars fans for whom this is a new adventure.
So we have a lot more folks that don't "get it" from any one of many points of view, than we see with most MMOs.
I wanted more from Space Combat, I will hope for better later, but not expect it. It is still a great looking game, and though it WILL be flawed, until or unless is proves lousy, I'll look forward to it anyway. Should be a fun adventure, even for the casual folks!
What are my expectations for Star Wars: The Old Republic?
A fun, exceptionally polished game that focuses on Bioware's greatest strength: storytelling.
Do I really feel they are realistic?
Probably not, but it is what it is. I won't feel betrayed or outraged if it doesn't live up to expectations; they just won't get my money. It's really as simple as that.
How has the information revealed on the game up to this point affected those expectations?
I won't lie, not all, but a considerable amount of it hasn't been encouraging.
While I most certainly don't take issue with "stylized" art direction (I absolutely adore games like Team Fortress 2 and Borderlands), the initial videos and screenshots so far are underwhelming. They just strike me as flat and generic, with arbitrary proportions. (Though to be fair, many of the environments/landscapes look quite lush and appealing; it's mostly the character art I'm referring to.)
I might add that I can't help but levy significant blame here on the promotional Blur cinematics. Don't get me wrong; they're stunning to behold. It's just the chasm of disparity between them and the actual gameplay visuals contribute strongly to this feeling of "meh".
Then there's what little we know of the game's mechanics themselves.
Though I'm generally fine with classes, levels, and so forth… classes, levels, class-restricted races, tiered (and appearance altering) loot, yet-another rehash of the "holy trinity" system, and what appears to be a carry-over of the generic WoW UI, talent and skillbar setup (albeit with a Star Wars theme) is a bit much. Is ArenaNet the only developer (somewhat) trying to break new ground here?
I wasn't expecting UO, Eve Online or pre-CU SWG. It's neither a shock nor necessarily a disappointment so much of the game resembles the 11-million subscriber, 800lb gorilla in the room. But really… four of the (meager) eight classes are Jedi… two of which appear to be little more than heal-bots? Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are faction exclusive? Really? Would a third, more morally-nebulous faction be too much to ask?
I guess what I'm driving at here is I'm still hoping (perhaps in vain) that these long-in-the-tooth MMO tropes take a backseat to the meat and potatoes of the game; that they're merely a means to an end, rather than the end itself. God help me if a typical login experience revolves around grinding to get a new cool helmet or the Lucas-inspired version of Fireball 3. Yawn.
Your points are well taken and most likely true. But I have one question. How many million boxes do you think they will sell? I figure they will make most if not all of their money back on box sales alone.
I expect the game to sell around 1.5 mil copies in first month. After that its up to one thing only - how much content there is in the game.
This is the only thing that will make or break this game.
Since its not true MMO - but heavily quest based rpg. Once you run out of quests the game is more or less over.
Judging from such heavy focus on production, voice overs, story. Its almost impossible there will be real big number of quest all together.
I expect that hardcore mmo player will burn trough the game in month time. And than find there is nothing more to do.
...If it's a known IP, there will always be those "Han Shot First"ers who see it how they see it. Lucas himself could write this game and there'd be loud complainers. People whine, it's a fact.
Bottom line - when you strip the starwars theme , and Bioware name -
what is SWTOR having to show for ?
7. It feels like Bioware is trying to copy their single player game and slap multiplayer brand on it.
Its also very obvious that SWTOR is nothing else but rehash of same ol' formula Bioware is pushing in all its recent games.
But this time they added possibility to play with friends. This does not feel like MMO. And in no way it feels like MMO 2011.
Allot of good points in your post.
But this has been said allot about this game and others out there recently. But what gets me is what are you talking about. What is an MMO?
Quick break down is Massively Multiplayer Online game. So another words many people on one server playing a game. It doesnt suggest you have to interact with each other if that is what you are getting at. It just states you are playing a game in which many people share the same enviornment.
Now does the game sound like most of it can be soloed pretty much all the way through? Maybe, but I still think its to early to tell. Either way, you can group with your friends to do the solo content if you want more interaction. Plus its been said you get better rewards for doing so.
MMO play styles are what you make it to be. To group or not to group.
I try to expect nothing so what I'm served will be palatable. Those of us who are old enough, or have done the dew diligence to understand the amount of dissapointment in almost (there are exceptions) all Star Wars media should know what I mean by this:
The stranglehold on the franshise has kept the Star Wars a lot of people (me included) want from maturing, and I guess I expect that strangulation to show up again in this incarnation. So expecting it to be a chocolate cake that I also get to eat is beyond my abilities at this point. I only hope that the cake doesn't taste like shit.
My expectations for this title are great to say the least but my reasoning in all honesty does nothing for the fact that many of the "naysayers" may be right about certain things as far as TOR is concerned.
If the fact that the entire game may exist on many levels on rails you may not like it but I for one still play console games with "on rail" stories that guide my character to a specific point in time. With an mmo how long that takes you is up to you and in theory we have to assume the game has to have some type of appeal past the story and Bioware has to know this. Maybe I could be wrong but I doubt they would make a mistake so great as to assume that there is no point in having a robust world that entertains the community outside of the quest line.
I consider myself a part of the mmo community because I think it's like a club that once your in your in I've tried to get friends to play and if they don't make it past the first weekend or so they never try again and of course there are those who once they try and get into a game will never say "no". There are legions out there I think and that is often why I say the hardcore mmo community is simply out of touch with the fact that everyday gamers are the "mass market" of mmo's if they want to grow beyond the 400k-500k range which with the money they are spending they need to. I often hear the phrase that "a game doesn't begin until end game" and I have never believed it because for me I have paid attention to all the quests and the lore and the history if available.
I played WOW for a few years and I quit after TBC but I think the real reason I quit was because I had reached the point where the game was no longer about "the world" the conflict between the factions it was just about grinding to get phat lewt and raiding for this thing or that.
I've played LOTRO for maybe two years now and one of the things that have helped me last is I enjoy the "experience" of the story, I enjoy the journey, no I don't always read the quests over again but I still "live" that characters life and travel that characters "path" which is not necessarily the same as the last three alts I took through it.
My expectations as far as TOR though is that they will produce a game that will give me the same feeling I got when I tried WOW for the first time and that is that mmo's have finally caught up to the rest of the video game industry. The graphics might not be my favorite of any game but I know they will be of the highest quality I know the world will be vivid and rich and I know if they follow suit and simply do what they said that sticks out in my mind which was "this game is going to have more content than all of our other games combined" then I will be satisfied and I will be able to play it for years as I did Baldurs gate series and KOTOR.
I think Bioware are capable enough that if people don't go into the game with a closed mind they would be surprised by how good they do on capturing every aspect of mmo's in addition to adding the story element to the game world that many expected AOC to deliver on.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
After you played through the story, seen all the cutscenes, listened to all the voice acting, there will be nothing.
No offense brother, but if they deliver on all of that alone, they'll have already (far) exceeded what every other MMO has failed to accomplish before.
Not to sound like I'm trolling or like an apologist, but the main jibe of your beef seems to be "will this game offer infinite content?" Frankly, short of repetitive, obsessive-compulsive laden grinding and/or a glorified chat-room interface, no game has been able to offer that so far. You may want to reel in your expectations a scooch.
I really think that those of you who can't get over the space combat issue just need to swallow your pride and go back to SWG. It really is the best you are going to get in the foreseeable future and no amount of whining is going to change that. Bioware is NOT going to change their game to appease a small vocal minority when the majority of their fans don't really care about space combat... I mean when are you guys going to give up!?
If the only Star Wars MMO that will make you happy is one with sandbox features and a more fleshed-out space combat, there is only one place for you to go. The game is still running and most of the old beloved features are still there. Stop complaining, suck up your pride and please go back to SWG for the love of God... I know SOE could certainly use your subscription money at this point.
As for expectations, I think you guys have only yourselves to blame. Everyone who is truly familiar with Bioware knows what to expect from their games. They all have a very similar formula and feel. Anyone expecting Bioware (of all people) to suddenly decide to make a sandbox game was only setting themselves up for disappointment.
I have a bad feeling about this, i can't really say what it is but its and mixture of salvador dali and waterworld,Dali fantatic pictures, small details, work of art, and on the other side (waterworld) ones your seen it you will never buy that ticket again.
Iv lost my faith in MMO, sooo meny bad ones and here i am again trying too grasp the sand in my hand as it slowly disolvs into the thin air, hopeing for something greater.
bioware is king of single player rpg's, yes we know! and........ THIS ISNT A FUCKING SINGLE PLAYER RPG!
Be that as it may, and I'm only speaking for myself… but it's precisely all the standard (aka: cliche) MMORPG trappings (aka: crap) that's lowering my expectations.
Frankly, I'd rather a strong, OPTIONALLY cooperative/competitive, single-player RPG where the focus is storytelling in the Star Wars universe, first and foremost.
Yet-another UO or EQ1 clone (albeit with a $150 million budget's worth of polish) that just happens to be skinned in a (pseudo) Star Wars theme ain't cutting the mustard. To put it simply, and again speaking only for myself, the MMO genre is well past the point of feeling "played out". Raph Koster, Brad McQuaid and Richard Garriott are dead to me.
I appreciate that is most likely an unpopular opinion given this forum, but I'm sick of militant, self-appointed MMO purists demanding the industry cater to their overblown (and frequently contradictory) sense of nostalgia.
I just want an exceptionally fun Star Wars game I can play with my friends. If that doesn't quite measure up to popular opinion of what the oh-so-sacred MMORPG acronym is 'supposed' to mean, then as far as I'm concerned… it's probably for the best.
...Next, if you weren't expecting JTLS, and you weren't expecting X-Wing vs Tie, but you wanted more then a Rail Shooter, what exactly are we expecting here?
To be able to turn my ship around, or stop altogether if it strikes my fancy? I'd dare even ask for the option of an alternative cockpit view, though that might be asking too much?
Comments
Personally, I could care less if its a mini game so long as I'm not forced to take part. I've never much liked space combat simulators. The z axis majorly messes with my head and I can't seem to orient myself easily after.
Its Star Wars, which is a major plus in my book. I love Star Wars and have since I was 5 years old. Its Bioware whom I consider the best game company on the planet.
But will it be good? I hope so. Honestly, I'm... worried. And not because of anything I've been shown in any of the video's or any info on the game thats been released. In fact, all thats been released looks good to me.
But here's the thing... I've played so many MMO's. I've beta'd a bunch. ALL of the ones I beta'd turned out to be a major disappointment to me. Though I really must say that LOTRO has so massively improved that its almost an entirely different game and I currently have an active account with them (unless I get a reply to all our concerns from the devs at EQ2, that account will end on the 27th).
One of my major MMO's that I was really looking forward to this year was Star Trek. I love it too, almost as much as I love Star Wars. And honestly, I beta'd it and was so massively disappointed that I honestly could not bring myself to buy the game, much less subscribe. In fact, I'd advise anyone against paying for that massive piece of garbage (long story as to why I hate it, and thats a separate topic so I won't address it here).
I WANT SWTOR to be good. Really really bad. Its Bioware. I don't think they'll blow it. Doesn't mean I'm right. I'm not looking for a replacement for SWG, just a good Star Wars universe that I can be a part of. Will it? I don't know. So I'm keeping my praise and my negativity in check and saying "I just don't know and we'll see".
Great Expectations? No. I don't have those. Only fools have those in either direction. Lets just say.. I face it with trepidation and we'll leave it at that. I'm actually frightened that they will blow it like what happened to Star Trek.
So....... this whole entire rant you just wasted your time on, only to then say, "I'm gonna buy it"..... WOW... just.......wow.
I'm going to start by saying I think this was one of Mikes better written articles, especially over the past few articles he's released.
Now, I've got to ask, why do people think that this type of gameplay cannot be expanded later on. I've got to pose this specifically to Mike, as it appear he has founded his opinion on something -- maybe inside information -- or something that I do not know. As BioWare has already mentioned, they plan on adding PvP, and more multiplayer capabilities, so this leads me to ask the question on how this is possible with a "run of the mill" rail shooter.
Next, if you weren't expecting JTLS, and you weren't expecting X-Wing vs Tie, but you wanted more then a Rail Shooter, what exactly are we expecting here? Pay very close attention to the gameplay you are looking at when you watch that video. What do you actually see? You see astroids being nearly missed, you see lasers flying by, and you see very fast paced gameplay indicative of a cinematic style experience. The gameplay captures specifically the excitement of star wars space combat. This isn't something that was prevalent in JTLS, even in all its glory. Sure you'd have some great missions, incoming fighters here and there, but there would also be times where you would be flying for many minutes without anything happening at all.
To that, I feel BioWare is directing this gameplay to accentuate the good areas like the action oriented combat while taking out the lengthy, time consuming, boring parts.
The space combat does look like alot of fun, and adding it as either a mini game or not is no issue for me.
With the devs telling us the game is bigger than all of their previous titles put together, there really is going to be more content than you can shake a stick at.
I too played SWG from the start, I enjoyed it but loathed the sandbox element of the game and actually enjoyed the massive changes they made to the game.
I'm expecting a game with the atmosphere and quality that is inherent to Bioware games but in the setting, massiveness and open worldness of a MMO.
So far it seems they're on the right track.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Your points are well taken and most likely true. But I have one question. How many million boxes do you think they will sell? I figure they will make most if not all of their money back on box sales alone.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
As a SWG player since beta who lived through the entire NGE debockle before I eventually quit never to return, my expectattions are pretty low. I am excited because I love Bioware but I expect LA to do a bit of content c**k blocking eventually just like they did to SOE. Yes, there was a point when SWG was looking up. That said, I am also disapponted in the space portion of the game thus far. One of the best parts of Jump To Lightspeed was the vastness of the space zones and being able to just explore space for hours. Also, did anyone else notice the lack of barrel rolls in the new video? It looks like the space portion of Lego Star Wars with better skin. It looks fun for short time but too simple for an MMO. I sure hope I turn out to be wrong. The ground game looks pretty solid thoug. If it turns out to be KOTOR with a little multplayer I think people will enjoy it for a while but eventually it will run it's course.
So far I like the stuff I have seen in the videos. But none of that matters until I play the game. Waiting for the free trial.
Oy, guys... stop using the "cartoony graphics" as an excuse. ALL MMO's have cartoony graphics by their very nature. Its just cartoons of different styles.
As for a free trial, then you'll be waiting until at least 6 months after the game is released to try it. Free trials never exist when the game is created. They only start after the mad rush to join initially is over.
thats nice but ur making assumptions and alot of em. u could be right could be wrong. but ur also expecting alot from an mmorpg genre. Apprently u dont know whats involved to make an mmorpg and thats why ur expecting so much. You still can explore and do whatever and in any mmorpg go get some exploration achivements done in WoW
and TOR never said it would be a full sanbox so dont cry about it. Look at what makes the mmorpg genre and what u want. u actually want more of a fall out 3 try it out but that game has quest if u want a sand box go play Darkfall but that has quest to but i know of some that dont but then thats called grind which everyone hates. Look at one of the things thats makes an mmorpg...an xp bar and lvls how do u get lvls by filling up the xp bard with xp how do u get xp? by doing things that give u xp such as quest dungeons pvp achivements etc. even fricking CoD and BC2 has xp bar. Take away that bar and still have an mmorpg? havent been seen yet. Would the game ur talking about come out? maybe and i would like that game ur looking for but there isnt one. and from what i see not for a while Tera is supposed to be the next gen mmo but it has everything that makes an mmorpg quest grind xp baretc . but it also has alot of diff features like every other mmorpg trys to differ themselves different from the rest of the mmorpg genre. just like CoD and BF2 for FPS or Starcraft and C&C for RTS. All the games are the same cuz there all the same genre there all mmorpgs! Just like RTS and FPS have been the same for years and year and YEARS! yet we still play them but each one has a new idea and thats what evolves genres each genre has its own elements which makes the genre. u cant have a FPS without some sort of weapon. or u cant have a RTS without some sort of base. Do u understand what im trying to say here?
It doesn't FEEL like an MMO? Even after all that time you spent playing it? Oh, no you didn't play it though, so how could it FEEL like an MMO to you? No matter what you say it "feels" like, I'll just cut to the chase and let you know, this game IS an MMO. I hope that clears it up for you.
Well said on all points, Comstrike. +1.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
What are my expectations for Star Wars: The Old Republic?
A fun, exceptionally polished game that focuses on Bioware's greatest strength: storytelling.
Do I really feel they are realistic?
Probably not, but it is what it is. I won't feel betrayed or outraged if it doesn't live up to expectations; they just won't get my money. It's really as simple as that.
How has the information revealed on the game up to this point affected those expectations?
I won't lie, not all, but a considerable amount of it hasn't been encouraging.
While I most certainly don't take issue with "stylized" art direction (I absolutely adore games like Team Fortress 2 and Borderlands), the initial videos and screenshots so far are underwhelming. They just strike me as flat and generic, with arbitrary proportions. (Though to be fair, many of the environments/landscapes look quite lush and appealing; it's mostly the character art I'm referring to.)
I might add that I can't help but levy significant blame here on the promotional Blur cinematics. Don't get me wrong; they're stunning to behold. It's just the chasm of disparity between them and the actual gameplay visuals contribute strongly to this feeling of "meh".
Then there's what little we know of the game's mechanics themselves.
Though I'm generally fine with classes, levels, and so forth… classes, levels, class-restricted races, tiered (and appearance altering) loot, yet-another rehash of the "holy trinity" system, and what appears to be a carry-over of the generic WoW UI, talent and skillbar setup (albeit with a Star Wars theme) is a bit much. Is ArenaNet the only developer (somewhat) trying to break new ground here?
I wasn't expecting UO, Eve Online or pre-CU SWG. It's neither a shock nor necessarily a disappointment so much of the game resembles the 11-million subscriber, 800lb gorilla in the room. But really… four of the (meager) eight classes are Jedi… two of which appear to be little more than heal-bots? Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are faction exclusive? Really? Would a third, more morally-nebulous faction be too much to ask?
I guess what I'm driving at here is I'm still hoping (perhaps in vain) that these long-in-the-tooth MMO tropes take a backseat to the meat and potatoes of the game; that they're merely a means to an end, rather than the end itself. God help me if a typical login experience revolves around grinding to get a new cool helmet or the Lucas-inspired version of Fireball 3. Yawn.
I expect the game to sell around 1.5 mil copies in first month. After that its up to one thing only - how much content there is in the game.
This is the only thing that will make or break this game.
Since its not true MMO - but heavily quest based rpg. Once you run out of quests the game is more or less over.
Judging from such heavy focus on production, voice overs, story. Its almost impossible there will be real big number of quest all together.
I expect that hardcore mmo player will burn trough the game in month time. And than find there is nothing more to do.
And than the problems for swtor will start
Starwars graphics are garbage
Rift or Tera for the win
I resemble that!
Allot of good points in your post.
But this has been said allot about this game and others out there recently. But what gets me is what are you talking about. What is an MMO?
Quick break down is Massively Multiplayer Online game. So another words many people on one server playing a game. It doesnt suggest you have to interact with each other if that is what you are getting at. It just states you are playing a game in which many people share the same enviornment.
Now does the game sound like most of it can be soloed pretty much all the way through? Maybe, but I still think its to early to tell. Either way, you can group with your friends to do the solo content if you want more interaction. Plus its been said you get better rewards for doing so.
MMO play styles are what you make it to be. To group or not to group.
I try to expect nothing so what I'm served will be palatable. Those of us who are old enough, or have done the dew diligence to understand the amount of dissapointment in almost (there are exceptions) all Star Wars media should know what I mean by this:
The stranglehold on the franshise has kept the Star Wars a lot of people (me included) want from maturing, and I guess I expect that strangulation to show up again in this incarnation. So expecting it to be a chocolate cake that I also get to eat is beyond my abilities at this point. I only hope that the cake doesn't taste like shit.
My expectations for this title are great to say the least but my reasoning in all honesty does nothing for the fact that many of the "naysayers" may be right about certain things as far as TOR is concerned.
If the fact that the entire game may exist on many levels on rails you may not like it but I for one still play console games with "on rail" stories that guide my character to a specific point in time. With an mmo how long that takes you is up to you and in theory we have to assume the game has to have some type of appeal past the story and Bioware has to know this. Maybe I could be wrong but I doubt they would make a mistake so great as to assume that there is no point in having a robust world that entertains the community outside of the quest line.
I consider myself a part of the mmo community because I think it's like a club that once your in your in I've tried to get friends to play and if they don't make it past the first weekend or so they never try again and of course there are those who once they try and get into a game will never say "no". There are legions out there I think and that is often why I say the hardcore mmo community is simply out of touch with the fact that everyday gamers are the "mass market" of mmo's if they want to grow beyond the 400k-500k range which with the money they are spending they need to. I often hear the phrase that "a game doesn't begin until end game" and I have never believed it because for me I have paid attention to all the quests and the lore and the history if available.
I played WOW for a few years and I quit after TBC but I think the real reason I quit was because I had reached the point where the game was no longer about "the world" the conflict between the factions it was just about grinding to get phat lewt and raiding for this thing or that.
I've played LOTRO for maybe two years now and one of the things that have helped me last is I enjoy the "experience" of the story, I enjoy the journey, no I don't always read the quests over again but I still "live" that characters life and travel that characters "path" which is not necessarily the same as the last three alts I took through it.
My expectations as far as TOR though is that they will produce a game that will give me the same feeling I got when I tried WOW for the first time and that is that mmo's have finally caught up to the rest of the video game industry. The graphics might not be my favorite of any game but I know they will be of the highest quality I know the world will be vivid and rich and I know if they follow suit and simply do what they said that sticks out in my mind which was "this game is going to have more content than all of our other games combined" then I will be satisfied and I will be able to play it for years as I did Baldurs gate series and KOTOR.
I think Bioware are capable enough that if people don't go into the game with a closed mind they would be surprised by how good they do on capturing every aspect of mmo's in addition to adding the story element to the game world that many expected AOC to deliver on.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
No offense brother, but if they deliver on all of that alone, they'll have already (far) exceeded what every other MMO has failed to accomplish before.
Not to sound like I'm trolling or like an apologist, but the main jibe of your beef seems to be "will this game offer infinite content?" Frankly, short of repetitive, obsessive-compulsive laden grinding and/or a glorified chat-room interface, no game has been able to offer that so far. You may want to reel in your expectations a scooch.
I really think that those of you who can't get over the space combat issue just need to swallow your pride and go back to SWG. It really is the best you are going to get in the foreseeable future and no amount of whining is going to change that. Bioware is NOT going to change their game to appease a small vocal minority when the majority of their fans don't really care about space combat... I mean when are you guys going to give up!?
If the only Star Wars MMO that will make you happy is one with sandbox features and a more fleshed-out space combat, there is only one place for you to go. The game is still running and most of the old beloved features are still there. Stop complaining, suck up your pride and please go back to SWG for the love of God... I know SOE could certainly use your subscription money at this point.
As for expectations, I think you guys have only yourselves to blame. Everyone who is truly familiar with Bioware knows what to expect from their games. They all have a very similar formula and feel. Anyone expecting Bioware (of all people) to suddenly decide to make a sandbox game was only setting themselves up for disappointment.
I have a bad feeling about this, i can't really say what it is but its and mixture of salvador dali and waterworld,Dali fantatic pictures, small details, work of art, and on the other side (waterworld) ones your seen it you will never buy that ticket again.
Iv lost my faith in MMO, sooo meny bad ones and here i am again trying too grasp the sand in my hand as it slowly disolvs into the thin air, hopeing for something greater.
Status quo
Be that as it may, and I'm only speaking for myself… but it's precisely all the standard (aka: cliche) MMORPG trappings (aka: crap) that's lowering my expectations.
Frankly, I'd rather a strong, OPTIONALLY cooperative/competitive, single-player RPG where the focus is storytelling in the Star Wars universe, first and foremost.
Yet-another UO or EQ1 clone (albeit with a $150 million budget's worth of polish) that just happens to be skinned in a (pseudo) Star Wars theme ain't cutting the mustard. To put it simply, and again speaking only for myself, the MMO genre is well past the point of feeling "played out". Raph Koster, Brad McQuaid and Richard Garriott are dead to me.
I appreciate that is most likely an unpopular opinion given this forum, but I'm sick of militant, self-appointed MMO purists demanding the industry cater to their overblown (and frequently contradictory) sense of nostalgia.
I just want an exceptionally fun Star Wars game I can play with my friends. If that doesn't quite measure up to popular opinion of what the oh-so-sacred MMORPG acronym is 'supposed' to mean, then as far as I'm concerned… it's probably for the best.
To be able to turn my ship around, or stop altogether if it strikes my fancy? I'd dare even ask for the option of an alternative cockpit view, though that might be asking too much?
Definitely needs moar barrel rolls, Peppy.