Originally posted by KyBoLet's face it, TOR's graphics look a lot like WoW. I'm also not impressed with what I've seen of the combat visuals and gameplay mechanics, which also seem to be similar to WoW.
NO, they both seem very similar with the ones in KOTOR, which was released well before WOW.
if anyone here is annoying or undeducated-it's you.
Wow, a troll post. Thank you for making my point about annoying fanbois attacking everything they disagree with. Stunning.
The graphics in KoTOR were much more realistic than the WoW/Clone Wars style used in TOR. I'd recommend an eye exam, but I realize that it's hard for you to see the difference in visual styles with your head that far up BW's a$$.
One need only look at the graphics and mechanics of the Heroengine, which was used to build TOR, to understand why the graphics are similar to WoW. See here where Neil Harris of Simutronics, who created the Heroengine, lays it out quite clearly in an interview about the Heroengine and TOR. "- It's got everything you would need to build World of Warcraft if you wanted to. We have a complete graphics front end -." It's clear that, at least in terms of graphics and mechanics, TOR was designed to appeal to the WoW crowd.
The reason for using stylized graphics is because it 's less resource consuming, allowing the game to run on lower-end systems. This is the same reason WoW uses similar graphics. Again, TOR looks like WoW, deal with it.
You see, an educated person uses factual resources to form their opinions, and also to defend that opinion, rather than simply biased personal conjecture and childish whining.
Here's some free advice: have a clue of what you're talking about before you nerdrage. It will keep you from looking so ignorant. I understand how I may be annoying to someone like you, going around and pointing out facts that ruin your TOR wet-dream. The game is what it is, for better or worse.
See this is the type of post that have people who are truly excited for TOR so frustrated.
Let's get this straight shall we. We know what the game is and is not. It seems that the majority of people who is interested in this game understands that even though on a personal level, will not get everything they would like, the game in itself looks very detailed and fun.
It's you the detractors that keep attacking and highjacking threads on various sites that seem to not be able to either comprehend or get past other games that were played, be it a old SW game or some other MMO.
What i see and read is that, most people that is following this game are not anymore of a fanboi or whatever than those that are following GW2 or RIFT. They are excited SW fans and or MMO gamers that are looking for something deeper and more fun than what they see out or coming up in the futrue.
First off, this post wasn't hijacked by detractors. The OP explained why he was not going to play the game, and what he felt were the negatives of the game. The thread was started by a detractor. Threads that support the game are usually "hijacked" when one person posts a descenting opinion in the thread, and all of the blind supporters (fanbois) go crazy and start nerdraging against that poster.
What "frustrates" people who are fanatically excited about TOR are the people pointing out that the game may not be The Greatest video game ever created that those people have built this game up in their minds to be. If you read my entire original post, rather than the one sentence that Kwintpod disagreed with and attacked like a child, you'll see that while I have issues with aspects of the game, I believe the game's storytelling and other features will be great. I also stated that when a free trial is released, I'll likely give it a shot, but I remain skeptical enough to not buy TOR on release. I'm a SW fan, but that does not mean I believe everything with a Star Wars label slapped on it is instantly an amazing product.
What I like or dislike in the game has nothing to do with what SW games or MMO's I've played in the past, but rather every game I've ever played, and the tastes in gameplay I've developed over the years, like any other gamer. I'm not a fan of the game design template that TOR is clearly borrowing from, namely the combat system and characters. For me, no amount of lightsabers, jedi powers, or amazing story will make up forover over-the-top character styles, or a clunky, unenjoyable combat system.
Every game has people that, no matter how great or terrible it is, will defend it to the death, regardless of how oblivious or misguided they may look to everyone else. What is fun, or deeper, is entirely subject to each person. Not everyone will completely praise TOR simply because BW made it, it has a robust story, and it's Star Wars.
Originally posted by KyBoLet's face it, TOR's graphics look a lot like WoW. I'm also not impressed with what I've seen of the combat visuals and gameplay mechanics, which also seem to be similar to WoW.
NO, they both seem very similar with the ones in KOTOR, which was released well before WOW.
if anyone here is annoying or undeducated-it's you.
Wow, a troll post. Thank you for making my point about annoying fanbois attacking everything they disagree with. Stunning.
The graphics in KoTOR were much more realistic than the WoW/Clone Wars style used in TOR. I'd recommend an eye exam, but I realize that it's hard for you to see the difference in visual styles with your head that far up BW's a$$.
One need only look at the graphics and mechanics of the Heroengine, which was used to build TOR, to understand why the graphics are similar to WoW. See here where Neil Harris of Simutronics, who created the Heroengine, lays it out quite clearly in an interview about the Heroengine and TOR. "- It's got everything you would need to build World of Warcraft if you wanted to. We have a complete graphics front end -." It's clear that, at least in terms of graphics and mechanics, TOR was designed to appeal to the WoW crowd.
The reason for using stylized graphics is because it 's less resource consuming, allowing the game to run on lower-end systems. This is the same reason WoW uses similar graphics. Again, TOR looks like WoW, deal with it.
You see, an educated person uses factual resources to form their opinions, and also to defend that opinion, rather than simply biased personal conjecture and childish whining.
Here's some free advice: have a clue of what you're talking about before you nerdrage. It will keep you from looking so ignorant. I understand how I may be annoying to someone like you, going around and pointing out facts that ruin your TOR wet-dream. The game is what it is, for better or worse.
See this is the type of post that have people who are truly excited for TOR so frustrated.
Let's get this straight shall we. We know what the game is and is not. It seems that the majority of people who is interested in this game understands that even though on a personal level, will not get everything they would like, the game in itself looks very detailed and fun.
It's you the detractors that keep attacking and highjacking threads on various sites that seem to not be able to either comprehend or get past other games that were played, be it a old SW game or some other MMO.
What i see and read is that, most people that is following this game are not anymore of a fanboi or whatever than those that are following GW2 or RIFT. They are excited SW fans and or MMO gamers that are looking for something deeper and more fun than what they see out or coming up in the futrue.
First off, this post wasn't hijacked by detractors. The OP explained why he was not going to play the game, and what he felt were the negatives of the game. The thread was started by a detractor. Threads that support the game are usually "hijacked" when one person posts a descenting opinion in the thread, and all of the blind supporters (fanbois) go crazy and start nerdraging against that poster.
What "frustrates" people who are fanatically excited about TOR are the people pointing out that the game may not be The Greatest video game ever created that those people have built this game up in their minds to be. If you read my entire original post, rather than the one sentence that Kwintpod disagreed with and attacked like a child, you'll see that while I have issues with aspects of the game, I believe the game's storytelling and other features will be great. I also stated that when a free trial is released, I'll likely give it a shot, but I remain skeptical enough to not buy TOR on release. I'm a SW fan, but that does not mean I believe everything with a Star Wars label slapped on it is instantly an amazing product.
What I like or dislike in the game has nothing to do with what SW games or MMO's I've played in the past, but rather every game I've ever played, and the tastes in gameplay I've developed over the years, like any other gamer. I'm not a fan of the game design template that TOR is clearly borrowing from, namely the combat system and characters. For me, no amount of lightsabers, jedi powers, or amazing story will make up forover over-the-top character styles, or a clunky, unenjoyable combat system.
Every game has people that, no matter how great or terrible it is, will defend it to the death, regardless of how oblivious or misguided they may look to everyone else. What is fun, or deeper, is entirely subject to each person. Not everyone will completely praise TOR simply because BW made it, it has a robust story, and it's Star Wars.
This site does not have enough SWTOR fan boys. If you talk bad about TOR you wind up getting a pat on the back around here.
This is exactly what this post is about. A guy looking for a pat on the back. Why do I say this? Well, it is because this is about the 4th topic I think he has started where he talks about why he will not play this game and how he thinks it sucks or what he thinks should be in the game.
It is fine to give your opinion I suppose, but when you create the same post over and over again, that is where the problem lies. There are lots of game I don't plan to play, I doubt I will make a thread about it though.
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
GW2=F2P game, Meaning people can just play both if they like it.
TERA=The second coming of AION.
I doubt most people would be willing to pay 50 for GW2, and another 50 for SW plus monthly.
Aion didn't have an innovative action based gameplay system, which is the major selling point of Tera.
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
I LOLED. Justin Bieber... XD
Good one! ^^
Yeah, I too think compared to what else is coming, TOR doesn't look so impressive anymore. Just imagine TOR was without Star Wars IP, and then think again how many would be interested. I suppose without SW Ip TOR would rank somewhere along the interest level or Aion or Alganon or such.
I guess the IP and Bioware will sell several million boxes, but if they keep their players... so far I haven't seen anything that tells me to play this game longer than 1 or 2 class stories and then move on. And how long will the standard (=fast!) gamer take it to finish? Maybe three months, and then what?
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
I LOLED. Justin Bieber... XD
Good one! ^^
Yeah, I too think compared to what else is coming, TOR doesn't look so impressive anymore. Just imagine TOR was without Star Wars IP, and then think again how many would be interested. I suppose without SW Ip TOR would rank somewhere along the interest level or Aion or Alganon or such.
I guess the IP and Bioware will sell several million boxes, but if they keep their players... so far I haven't seen anything that tells me to play this game longer than 1 or 2 class stories and then move on. And how long will the standard (=fast!) gamer take it to finish? Maybe three months, and then what?
Do you realize how much interest there was in AION before it was released? It was one of the most highly anticipated games.
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
GW2=F2P game, Meaning people can just play both if they like it.
TERA=The second coming of AION.
I doubt most people would be willing to pay 50 for GW2, and another 50 for SW plus monthly.
Aion didn't have an innovative action based gameplay system, which is the major selling point of Tera.
Price drop? Most people I know who play MMOs plan to do that.
That and its not like you have to buy both at the same time. I watched gameplay of Tera and I could not tell you how unimpressed I was. It looked like every other P2P Korean MMO out there.
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
I love when people try to use analogy to compare Online gaming to music. They are 2 different things. Justin Beiber is a joke. Classical music isn't my kind of music either. But TOR does not = Justin Beiber
There is a difference between boring gameplay, and action filled adventure. I would rather have action filled adventure, even if your analogy shows it to be the justin beiber of the MMO world. I hate justin beiber , btw and any other one of these phony R and B or manufactured artists they have running around nowadays.
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
Interesting analogy. Not quite sure it fits because you would have to make a compelling argument that Mr. Beiber was SWToR and not some other game. Not sure I buy that. Also, "classical" music is a very large blanket word for many types of music OR a very specific time period when Mozart worked. One can point to the very technical, in depth music of Bach (which is baroque but falls under the huge blanket of "classical music") and then the counter to that which was the easy to get into, less complicated Stile Galant. All types of media have their day and then some sort of counter to what is the status quo comes along. But I digress...
I don't believe that Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally. I just don't know where you are getting that other than those games have something you value and therefore you are making the leap that all people value that.
My guess is that both Tera and GW2 will have different game play than SWToR. Because of this they aren't in direct competition with SWToR. Probably in more competition with each other.
To that point, SWToR will reach out to non- game players more than GW2 or Tera will do just because it's STar Wars.
GW2 and Tera will only be talked about by gamers. SWToR will be in the news because it transcends just being a mere game and is a cultural icon of a sort.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
That analogy doesn't work. We're not talking about how music has changed over hundreds of years. We're talking about something that has changed over a little more than a year (mid 2003 to later 2004 when WoW was released). If SWG had been a really good, really solid game, then it would have captured a massive, massive number of people like or instead of WoW. SWG certainly had the more popular IP, afterall.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
I LOLED. Justin Bieber... XD
Good one! ^^
Yeah, I too think compared to what else is coming, TOR doesn't look so impressive anymore. Just imagine TOR was without Star Wars IP, and then think again how many would be interested. I suppose without SW Ip TOR would rank somewhere along the interest level or Aion or Alganon or such.
I guess the IP and Bioware will sell several million boxes, but if they keep their players... so far I haven't seen anything that tells me to play this game longer than 1 or 2 class stories and then move on. And how long will the standard (=fast!) gamer take it to finish? Maybe three months, and then what?
I find directly comparing TERA and TOR to be rather odd. TERA has a massive PvP component and so is obviously designed for a different sort of player. Those sorts of games in the last 5 or more years have not seemed insanely popular overall. Lots of people prefer to not to be hacked up by other players in the open game world, generally speaking. Not that such games can't be successful, but generally they don't do nearly as well as less PvP-centric games from what I've noticed. If TERA has thought up something to address this, then please tell me because I haven't heard of it (but to be fair I haven't been following TERA very closely).
TOR is focused more on people who want a world where the NPC-element feels alive and you can interact with it. Hence stories where you make choices that matter (which is a huge step up from a game like WoW), and a focus on making other things seem more cinematic and heroic as well, such as fighting more than one enemy at once. I see this as something that positively builds upon what other very successful and mostly PvE games have done, and so it seems like there's a high likelihood it will work.
Now, GW2 is certainly interesting. Dynamic Events are cool as heck. TOR probably is less purely innovative than GW2, but that doesn't mean TOR doesn't have a significant amount of innovation.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
I LOLED. Justin Bieber... XD
Good one! ^^
Yeah, I too think compared to what else is coming, TOR doesn't look so impressive anymore. Just imagine TOR was without Star Wars IP, and then think again how many would be interested. I suppose without SW Ip TOR would rank somewhere along the interest level or Aion or Alganon or such.
I guess the IP and Bioware will sell several million boxes, but if they keep their players... so far I haven't seen anything that tells me to play this game longer than 1 or 2 class stories and then move on. And how long will the standard (=fast!) gamer take it to finish? Maybe three months, and then what?
I find directly comparing TERA and TOR to be rather odd. TERA has a massive PvP component and so is obviously designed for a different sort of player. Those sorts of games in the last 5 or more years have not seemed insanely popular overall. Lots of people prefer to not to be hacked up by other players in the open game world, generally speaking. Not that such games can't be successful, but generally they don't do nearly as well as less PvP-centric games from what I've noticed. If TERA has thought up something to address this, then please tell me because I haven't heard of it (but to be fair I haven't been following TERA very closely).
TOR is focused more on people who want a world where the NPC-element feels alive and you can interact with it. Hence stories where you make choices that matter (which is a huge step up from a game like WoW), and a focus on making other things seem more cinematic and heroic as well, such as fighting more than one enemy at once. I see this as something that positively builds upon what other very successful and mostly PvE games have done, and so it seems like there's a high likelihood it will work.
Now, GW2 is certainly interesting. Dynamic Events are cool as heck. TOR probably is less purely innovative than GW2, but that doesn't mean TOR doesn't have a significant amount of innovation.
I guess both Tera and Rift will have difficulties because GW and TOR are way more known. GW2 will be the big competitor if they play their cards right, and they too say to have lots of story and also full VO.
In MY very unimportant opinion that is way more what made WOW such a success. Warcraft was very well known and very popular among gamers, and Bliz was know for its BattleNet and stuff like Diablo und Starcraft in some online mode. So they had a strong fundament to built on. Now you say, but didn't Star Wars have a big community too? Yes, but fan community and game community are two pair of shoes, which is where the entire analogy people always bring, fails. So the success of WOW has little to do if WOW was good or bad.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would just add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
And now don't come to me and tell me "hater hater", but tell me for REAL, what does make TOR so special and NOT mediocre and standard fare? I really just do not see that. And that's not hating, it's telling what I see. I mean, really, why are you so adamant against more diverse choices?
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want to store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would not add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would not add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I copy it, because I wanna know your answer:
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want the store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Now you get your vanilla, and I don't want to take that away. I just want them to add more flavours, for other sorts of appetite. WHY does that bother you? When I say, I want extended crafting. Ok you don't like it, don't craft. I say, I want open space fight; you don't like it you don't HAVE to. I say I want non human races, you say, I don't like it, ok then don't PLAY them. What is the deal???
Why must a game be limited to just ONE taste? Why can't it add more different tastes? I don't understand.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would not add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I copy it, because I wanna know your answer:
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want to store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Why must a game be limited to just ONE taste? Why can't it add more different tastes? I don't understand.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would not add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I copy it, because I wanna know your answer:
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want the store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Now you get your vanilla, and I don't want to take that away. I just want them to add more flavours, for other sorts of appetite. WHY does that bother you? When I say, I want extended crafting. Ok you don't like it, don't craft. I say, I want open space fight; you don't like it you don't HAVE to. I say I want non human races, you say, I don't like it, ok then don't PLAY them. What is the deal???
Why must a game be limited to just ONE taste? Why can't it add more different tastes? I don't understand.
I think the better analogy is that we're both hungry and we go to one of the world's best and most famous pizza places. I want pizza, so I'm happy that they serve pizza. You, on the other hand, want ice cream (because your favorite ice cream store closed down and had a similar name) and you continually whine and demand that the pizza place start serving ice cream... something they are neither equipped for nor experienced at. If they start attempting to serve both things, they will probaby fail at both and the business will suffer.
In the case of SWTOR, if they were really to cater to the SWG whiners, they would have to fundamentally change the game in a way that would destroy all of their previous work. How would they be able to offer a skill-based system or more choices in classes without completely destroying the story-based framework they have created? The answer is they couldn't. It is not possible to offer a unique storyline to every class if there are no classes... or if there are 30+ of them. It is also not possible to have sprawling player-ghettos everywhere if they want the maps to be well designed. The two ideas really can't work together if you have read anything about Bioware's vision for the game.
Now, that's not to say that they can't offer a decent crafting system... and NEWS FLASH: They say they have. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they have done their homework won't we?
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would not add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I copy it, because I wanna know your answer:
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want the store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Now you get your vanilla, and I don't want to take that away. I just want them to add more flavours, for other sorts of appetite. WHY does that bother you? When I say, I want extended crafting. Ok you don't like it, don't craft. I say, I want open space fight; you don't like it you don't HAVE to. I say I want non human races, you say, I don't like it, ok then don't PLAY them. What is the deal???
Why must a game be limited to just ONE taste? Why can't it add more different tastes? I don't understand.
I think the better analogy is that we're both hungry and we go to one of the world's best and most famous pizza places. I want pizza, so I'm happy that they serve pizza. You, on the other hand, want ice cream and you continually whine and demand that the pizza place start serving ice cream... something they are neither equipped for nor experienced at. If they start attempting to serve both things, they will probaby fail at both and the business will suffer.
In the case of SWTOR, if they were really to cater to the SWG whiners, they would have to fundamentally change the game in a way that would destroy all of their previous work. How would they be able to offer a skill-based system or more choices in classes without completely destroying the story-based framework they have created? The answer is they couldn't. It is not possible to offer a unique storyline to every class if there are no classes... or if there are 30+ of them. It is also not possible to have sprawling player-ghettos everywhere if they want the maps to be well designed. The two ideas really can't work together if you have read anything about Bioware's vision for the game.
Now, that's not to say that they can't offer a decent crafting system... and NEWS FLASH: They say they have. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they have done their homework won't we?
EDIT: I also prefer cake over ice cream.
SWGers will never be happy until they get SWG2. They should get something like cancer so they can see what a real problem is and that NGE really as important as they have been ranting about for years.
In MY very unimportant opinion that is way more what made WOW such a success. Warcraft was very well known and very popular among gamers, and Bliz was know for its BattleNet and stuff like Diablo und Starcraft in some online mode. So they had a strong fundament to built on. Now you say, but didn't Star Wars have a big community too? Yes, but fan community and game community are two pair of shoes, which is where the entire analogy people always bring, fails. So the success of WOW has little to do if WOW was good or bad.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would just add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Many, many Star Wars fans also play computer games. There is a massive, massive overlap as the retail success of even bad Star Wars games shows (to say nothing of the good ones). So I don't buy that the populations are a disparate as you say.
It really depends on what you mean by a lot of that. If by "real crafting" you mean going around mining resources for hours, then yeah, that WOULD detract from the game one way or another. Either the crafting stuff is the best, in which case they force people to do crafting who don't want to (because the people interested in that wouldn't meet the demand), or it is inferior in which case it is a waste even for people who like it. Beyond that, let's wait and see what crafting IS going to be like before we bash it. "Real Space" sounds nice, then you realize that it is a vast emptiness and most of your time out there is spent just flying in a straight line and wasting time. That's why they are going for a much more focused system that gets you into the action and has a lot of cinematic control so they can make sure the play is fun and the experience solid -- the space combat is very strongly aligned with their vision and concept for the game and I for one think it is a great thing when a developer actually sticks with a good concept rather than waffles around making a bunch of stuff that doesn't seemlessly fit together. As for social areas, those ARE in the game.
Regarding races, I think there's a very good reason not to have Wookiees and the like as playable races. Hardly anyone would respect the IP of those races properly (That's just how players are). Most of the Wookiee players would ignore life debts, fight with their claws in melee (if that was an option), and do many other things that would turn Wookiees into humans in funny suits rather the distinct and awesome culture they are. Denying players here vastly increases the immersiveness of the game world; we get something that really feels like the Old Republic and feels alive. If that means your flavor of ice cream isn't going to be served then so be it. Someone else might like turning into a crazed serial killer Jedi and just hacking apart newbies in a FFA PvP environment, but while that might be appropriate for other games it would definitely not be right for TOR.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would not add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I copy it, because I wanna know your answer:
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want the store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Now you get your vanilla, and I don't want to take that away. I just want them to add more flavours, for other sorts of appetite. WHY does that bother you? When I say, I want extended crafting. Ok you don't like it, don't craft. I say, I want open space fight; you don't like it you don't HAVE to. I say I want non human races, you say, I don't like it, ok then don't PLAY them. What is the deal???
Why must a game be limited to just ONE taste? Why can't it add more different tastes? I don't understand.
I think the better analogy is that we're both hungry and we go to one of the world's best and most famous pizza places. I want pizza, so I'm happy that they serve pizza. You, on the other hand, want ice cream and you continually whine and demand that the pizza place start serving ice cream... something they are neither equipped for nor experienced at. If they start attempting to serve both things, they will probaby fail at both and the business will suffer.
In the case of SWTOR, if they were really to cater to the SWG whiners, they would have to fundamentally change the game in a way that would destroy all of their previous work. How would they be able to offer a skill-based system or more choices in classes without completely destroying the story-based framework they have created? The answer is they couldn't. It is not possible to offer a unique storyline to every class if there are no classes... or if there are 30+ of them. It is also not possible to have sprawling player-ghettos everywhere if they want the maps to be well designed. The two ideas really can't work together if you have read anything about Bioware's vision for the game.
Now, that's not to say that they can't offer a decent crafting system... and NEWS FLASH: They say they have. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they have done their homework won't we?
EDIT: I also prefer cake over ice cream.
I can not agree with you. It is not logically so, that adding another sort of food naturally ruins the one they already serve. That's just totally illogical. Why would their pizza get worse because they added an ice cream machine? That's just not logical.
As to the game. When they add good crafting, how does that make the other parts of the game bad?
Stop calling people whiners, or referring to SWG. It really does not do your point credit to handle with such vocabulary. Don't take in things I didn't say, like skill based system. Refer to what I suggest not what I never suggested.
I am sorry if someone feels misread, but following the discussion I get the impression some people don't even WANT to talk rationally, they just want to fight and be right for the sake of being right. So far most people who critizised the OP haven't brought a single logical point as why expanding the game is a bad thing, and what you say, Anubisan, isn't any more logical. Why the addition of more races or classes, better crafting or open space, entertaining or whatever would damage the existing things is something you have not answered still. And I start to assume that isn't what you want. You just want to be right.
Fine, have it your way then. I just think you know that, whoever of us is right, you aren't really open to even consider any critique. Bioware is god and everyone saying otherwise is heretic. Still, the OP must have put some sting of doubt into your hearts, or you wouldn't fight to vividly to proof your point here. If his words were just folly, people would laugh and move on; they wouldn't spent 300 posts time here trying to proof him wrong.
I think you yourself have way more doubt than you admit, and you guys brand us as "whiners" and "haters" because deep down you fear we may be right. I assume that is in fact the case here. You are afraid the OP is right. We never attack what does not matter to us.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
I LOLED. Justin Bieber... XD
Good one! ^^
Yeah, I too think compared to what else is coming, TOR doesn't look so impressive anymore. Just imagine TOR was without Star Wars IP, and then think again how many would be interested. I suppose without SW Ip TOR would rank somewhere along the interest level or Aion or Alganon or such.
I guess the IP and Bioware will sell several million boxes, but if they keep their players... so far I haven't seen anything that tells me to play this game longer than 1 or 2 class stories and then move on. And how long will the standard (=fast!) gamer take it to finish? Maybe three months, and then what?
I find directly comparing TERA and TOR to be rather odd. TERA has a massive PvP component and so is obviously designed for a different sort of player. Those sorts of games in the last 5 or more years have not seemed insanely popular overall. Lots of people prefer to not to be hacked up by other players in the open game world, generally speaking. Not that such games can't be successful, but generally they don't do nearly as well as less PvP-centric games from what I've noticed. If TERA has thought up something to address this, then please tell me because I haven't heard of it (but to be fair I haven't been following TERA very closely).
TOR is focused more on people who want a world where the NPC-element feels alive and you can interact with it. Hence stories where you make choices that matter (which is a huge step up from a game like WoW), and a focus on making other things seem more cinematic and heroic as well, such as fighting more than one enemy at once. I see this as something that positively builds upon what other very successful and mostly PvE games have done, and so it seems like there's a high likelihood it will work.
Now, GW2 is certainly interesting. Dynamic Events are cool as heck. TOR probably is less purely innovative than GW2, but that doesn't mean TOR doesn't have a significant amount of innovation.
I guess both Tera and Rift will have difficulties because GW and TOR are way more known. GW2 will be the big competitor if they play their cards right, and they too say to have lots of story and also full VO.
In MY very unimportant opinion that is way more what made WOW such a success. Warcraft was very well known and very popular among gamers, and Bliz was know for its BattleNet and stuff like Diablo und Starcraft in some online mode. So they had a strong fundament to built on. Now you say, but didn't Star Wars have a big community too? Yes, but fan community and game community are two pair of shoes, which is where the entire analogy people always bring, fails. So the success of WOW has little to do if WOW was good or bad.
The Star Wars video game history spanned over 2 decades, across dozens of platforms and had close to 75 diiferent variations. This means it touched based with a helluva lot more gamers than Blizzard's IP. And before WoW I knew nothing of warcraft or Blizzard, nor did any of my friends that played WoW. We were dedicated MMO players and never really got into RTS games. We barely touched Diablo/Diablo II and wondered why all the hoopla about them. But WoW still managed to capture a loin's share of the market. Why?
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would just add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Trying to mix two distinct versions of a game with the same IP is like trying to splice parts of digital Star Wars footage within the original movie. How'd that work out for ol' George? Or better yet look how Rami chopped up his own version of the original movie over and over with each sequel of the Evil Dead trilogy. If you're not gonna include the telling of the prequel correctly the first time, don't bother at all. Especially when you make it worst with each sequel. I'd rather have a Bioware's version of a KOTOR mmorpg than SWG reimagined......isn't that what NGE was?
And now don't come to me and tell me "hater hater", but tell me for REAL, what does make TOR so special and NOT mediocre and standard fare? I really just do not see that. And that's not hating, it's telling what I see. I mean, really, why are you so adamant against more diverse choices?
See this is where the confusion is. I'm not telling you why SWTOR will be special, I'm telling you why it will be special for me. But before I can justify why it's gonna be cool for me. You and a bunch of others cut it off and say meh...that ain't so special who cares about story arcs, moral choices, ship housing, events that include using your ship in space, companions that do more than just follow you around, building a lightsaber and teaming up to take on a group of sith on a war-torn planet. Well, I do...and so do a lot of people here.....just not you.
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want to store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
No, it's more like we go into Baskin Robins for a scoop of ice cream on a waffle cone. So I place my order of chocolate mousse royale and you ask for a scoop of vanilla and a scoop of chocolate mixed with a cup of sprinkles and a cup of M&Ms. Then the cashier and I look each other then look at you like you got your ice cream shops mixed up. Then she politely points out to you that Cold Stone is down the street. We don't serve ice cream that way here at Baskin Robins. I then tell you if you wanted you ice cream served the way Cold Stone does, why didn't you just ask to stop there on the way here. Don't go assuming just because they both serve ice cream that they'll cater to your way because you've had ice cream that way before. Kinda like how you think a SW mmo should be made just because it was made that way before.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
If I was a Dev, and I read the OP post...........I would have no direction on what he wants in or out of the game.
Here is a tip...........stop being so vague as to why you dont like the game or wont play it.
As a matter of fact, the game doesnt even have a release date, so all you are doing is raging on what is said in interviews besides seeing the graphics (which is the same way SW: KOTOR looked, which this game is modeled after). And no I am not a SWTOR fanboy. Im just tired of the lack of maturity with the MMO community as of late. People gripe and complain about everything and give no contructive feedback or suggestions to the Devs to fix things.
Thats like my wife walking into the room and saying "Im mad! you dont do anything right!". How am I supposd to know what to fix? Details people, details.
If you dont want to play then fine, but I caution not to judge something sooooo far from release, i've done that before and been proven wrong once the game came out or even a couple of months after release.
If I was a Dev, and I read the OP post...........I would have no direction on what he wants in or out of the game.
Here is a tip...........stop being so vague as to why you dont like the game or wont play it.
As a matter of fact, the game doesnt even have a release date, so all you are doing is raging on what is said in interviews besides seeing the graphics (which is the same way SW: KOTOR looked, which this game is modeled after). And no I am not a SWTOR fanboy. Im just tired of the lack of maturity with the MMO community as of late. People gripe and complain about everything and give no contructive feedback or suggestions to the Devs to fix things.
Thats like my wife walking into the room and saying "Im mad! you dont do anything right!". How am I supposd to know what to fix? Details people, details.
If you dont want to play then fine, but I caution not to judge something sooooo far from release, i've done that before and been proven wrong once the game came out or even a couple of months after release.
So many replies, but I guess this is a fair request. I tend to be vague, thinking people will know, because the debate is so old.
First, what I LIKE about SWTOR or think is ok, not that people make endless assumptions. I do NOT want SWG2. While I like some parts of SWG, and due to the great community it was the greatest fun I ever had, the game itself wasn't so great to be just copied. I am NO sandbox fan. So first, what I like about SWTOR:
- quests; I am no sandbox fan, I need direction and stuff to do
- story; again I think this IS the much needed evolution of MMOs, I played Pen and Paper games a long time, and they were story driven too, so I love that idea from SWTOR
- world visuals are by and large ok; only the characters I still think are not "talking to me", meaning having no emotional impact on me; all the planetary vids and screenshots look awesome.
- I am also one who supports classes, I have posted many times that I feel that skill based is a hassle to control and balanced, so again, no disagreement here
- races: it is ok that you can not play totally inhuman beings like a living blob or a spider or an intelligent ocean; impossible to incorporate into story or really playable
So, what is amiss? I am aware those are assumptions based on the info we HAVE. If new info changes that, it is all welcome to me. So the judgement is only "for now".
1) There is too much story. While I want some story, a lot of story even, some times when I log in, I have no patience for story. I just want to go with friends and hunt stuff. I want the freedom to do that, and not a MMO which playes like an all story driven single player game. Even if it is open world, the story looks AT THIS MOMENT as too much story to me. Maybe Bioware made a wrong impression and there IS freedom, but right now I don't see enough of it. MY wish is, to make less story and more "standard" MMO stuff. Keep 50% of your story, but open a the other half for free gaming.
2) Crafting: I want complex crafting, ideally like in Vanguard.
3) I want open space, like in X-Wing, Tie-fighter, Wing Commander asf.
4) Most important: I want more than just human races. I want to be able to be Bothan, Kel'dor, Nautolan, Rodian, Mon Calamari and some others. Personally I can live without Wookiee or Trandoshan, but I would not mind their addition. I think it is not that difficult to make variables in the stories, like ruling out romances. NPCs are not omnisexual anyway, so it just adds another variable not having a romance option. Bothans, Mon Cal asf. are normal people of the Rebublic; I don't see why they should not be at least half of the classes. I don't think any NPC would be surprised to see a Bothan Smuggler or a Nautolan Jedi. It's Star Wars, after all.
5) Bioware should make more clear how much open content and how much closed story instances the game make up, in percentage. I want a good portion of the game just open world quests and grouping with friends.
6) I very much want an Entertainer system. I understand it prolly can't be a real profession (though why not?), but it could be a Hobby system. I don't care if they say 100 times that Han Solo and Darth Vader don't dance. I love the Entertainer system, and that is my wish.
7) Finally, I think the idea that ALL gamers are heroes ALL the time is a mistake. Yes, I like the idea people are heroes MOST of the time. But open up areas of normal life. Like housing, player cities, crafting, entertaining. I don't want the the heroic parts gone, I want to see not heroic "normal" parts be added. I am sure not everyone wants to be hero 24/7. Give us something not heroic to do, so life to built. In every MMO people roleplay normal life, even if the game itself does not offer it. In EQ2 people made one of their houses into a tavern and roleplayed bartender. People WILL do that in SWTOR, but it would be better if the game had tools to support that.
EDIT: 8) As mentioned, the characater are lacking, visually. Most clothing & gear as well as faces are not artistically as good as I'd wish. Yes, just my personal taste, but thats what I talk about.
Aside from nitpicking, that is basically it.
Everyone talking about whining, trolling, hating asf., everyone not referring to what I say, will be ignored.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I can not agree with you. It is not logically so, that adding another sort of food naturally ruins the one they already serve. That's just totally illogical. Why would their pizza get worse because they added an ice cream machine? That's just not logical.
Analogies in and of themselves usually work poorly becuase they are changing things in the subject matter to fit the analogy and thus something is loss. The point he is trying to make is that if said pizza shop had to start making icec ream they would have to take some people who were devoted to making the pizza good to start selling the ice cream, thus the perfection so to speak of the pizza would drop and thus by dividing their resources to cater to a second group would hurt the over all business more then it would help.
As to the game. When they add good crafting, how does that make the other parts of the game bad?
It doesn't, but the followers as i'd prefer to call them feel that BW should get the core stuff down before they start adding other things to cater to their other fans that might be outside the ideal circle.
Stop calling people whiners, or referring to SWG. It really does not do your point credit to handle with such vocabulary. Don't take in things I didn't say, like skill based system. Refer to what I suggest not what I never suggested.
I agree to this part, if this is really going on, it needs to stop, it's not helping the conversation at all.
I am sorry if someone feels misread, but following the discussion I get the impression some people don't even WANT to talk rationally, they just want to fight and be right for the sake of being right. So far most people who critizised the OP haven't brought a single logical point as why expanding the game is a bad thing, and what you say, Anubisan, isn't any more logical. Why the addition of more races or classes, better crafting or open space, entertaining or whatever would damage the existing things is something you have not answered still. And I start to assume that isn't what you want. You just want to be right.
Actually this has happened on the detractors side as well if you will. Lots of time they have said the game will be bad merely because the hype is too high and it will crash and burn. While some haven't given convincing arguments for TOR there are quite a few who posted evidence of why they think it will be good.
Fine, have it your way then. I just think you know that, whoever of us is right, you aren't really open to even consider any critique. Bioware is god and everyone saying otherwise is heretic. Still, the OP must have put some sting of doubt into your hearts, or you wouldn't fight to vividly to proof your point here. If his words were just folly, people would laugh and move on; they wouldn't spent 300 posts time here trying to proof him wrong.
This is just venom, i could do the same thing and say maybe he has said something to you to put a little doubt that your argument isn't as strong as you'd like it to be after some of the evidence thats has comes out and that he said things that made you mad or you wouldn't have lashed out, you would have just brushed him off as another fanboy who doesn't know anything.
I think you yourself have way more doubt than you admit, and you guys brand us as "whiners" and "haters" because deep down you fear we may be right. I assume that is in fact the case here. You are afraid the OP is right. We never attack what does not matter to us.
Whiners and haters is a blanket term for people who make accusations against a game without any real reason other then they don't like it. The only reason i'm posting is in the slight chance someone comes along and reads this, i want them to see both sides and hopefully do their own bit of research and come to a conclusion before they just read whatever goes on here.
Final note: Most of what goes on here is drama for the sake of drama if your really interested, grab a magazine, read pax news, go to swtor.com and read for yourself. Don't judge by what goes on here. Lots of emotions flying around and lots of misconceptions on both ends. Get the news from the source.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
If I was a Dev, and I read the OP post...........I would have no direction on what he wants in or out of the game.
Here is a tip...........stop being so vague as to why you dont like the game or wont play it.
As a matter of fact, the game doesnt even have a release date, so all you are doing is raging on what is said in interviews besides seeing the graphics (which is the same way SW: KOTOR looked, which this game is modeled after). And no I am not a SWTOR fanboy. Im just tired of the lack of maturity with the MMO community as of late. People gripe and complain about everything and give no contructive feedback or suggestions to the Devs to fix things.
Thats like my wife walking into the room and saying "Im mad! you dont do anything right!". How am I supposd to know what to fix? Details people, details.
If you dont want to play then fine, but I caution not to judge something sooooo far from release, i've done that before and been proven wrong once the game came out or even a couple of months after release.
So many replies, but I guess this is a fair request. I tend to be vague, thinking people will know, because the debate is so old.
First, what I LIKE about SWTOR or think is ok, not that people make endless assumptions. I do NOT want SWG2. While I like some parts of SWG, and due to the great community it was the greatest fun I ever had, the game itself wasn't so great to be just copied. I am NO sandbox fan. So first, what I like about SWTOR:
- quests; I am no sandbox fan, I need direction and stuff to do
- story; again I think this IS the much needed evolution of MMOs, I played Pen and Paper games a long time, and they were story driven too, so I love that idea from SWTOR
- world visuals are by and large ok; only the characters I still think are not "talking to me", meaning having no emotional impact on me; all the planetary vids and screenshots look awesome.
- I am also one who supports classes, I have posted many times that I feel that skill based is a hassle to control and balanced, so again, no disagreement here
- races: it is ok that you can not play totally inhuman beings like a living blob or a spider or an intelligent ocean; impossible to incorporate into story or really playable
So, what is amiss? I am aware those are assumptions based on the info we HAVE. If new info changes that, it is all welcome to me. So the judgement is only "for now".
1) There is too much story. While I want some story, a lot of story even, some times when I log in, I have no patience for story. I just want to go with friends and hunt stuff. I want the freedom to do that, and not a MMO which playes like an all story driven single player game. Even if it is open world, the story looks AT THIS MOMENT as too much story to me. Maybe Bioware made a wrong impression and there IS freedom, but right now I don't see enough of it. MY wish is, to make less story and more "standard" MMO stuff. Keep 50% of your story, but open a the other half for free gaming.
2) Crafting: I want complex crafting, ideally like in Vanguard.
3) I want open space, like in X-Wing, Tie-fighter, Wing Commander asf.
4) Most important: I want more than just human races. I want to be able to be Bothan, Kel'dor, Nautolan, Rodian, Mon Calamari and some others. Personally I can live without Wookiee or Trandoshan, but I would not mind their addition. I think it is not that difficult to make variables in the stories, like ruling out romances. NPCs are not omnisexual anyway, so it just adds another variable not having a romance option. Bothans, Mon Cal asf. are normal people of the Rebublic; I don't see why they should not be at least half of the classes. I don't think any NPC would be surprised to see a Bothan Smuggler or a Nautolan Jedi. It's Star Wars, after all.
5) Bioware should make more clear how much open content and how much closed story instances the game make up, in percentage. I want a good portion of the game just open world quests and grouping with friends.
6) I very much want an Entertainer system. I understand it prolly can't be a real profession (though why not?), but it could be a Hobby system. I don't care if they say 100 times that Han Solo and Darth Vader don't dance. I love the Entertainer system, and that is my wish.
7) Finally, I think the idea that ALL gamers are heroes ALL the time is a mistake. Yes, I like the idea people are heroes MOST of the time. But open up areas of normal life. Like housing, player cities, crafting, entertaining. I don't want the the heroic parts gone, I want to see not heroic "normal" parts be added. I am sure not everyone wants to be hero 24/7. Give us something not heroic to do, so life to built. In every MMO people roleplay normal life, even if the game itself does not offer it. In EQ2 people made one of their houses into a tavern and roleplayed bartender. People WILL do that in SWTOR, but it would be better if the game had tools to support that.
EDIT: 8) As mentioned, the characater are lacking, visually. Most clothing & gear as well as faces are not artistically as good as I'd wish. Yes, just my personal taste, but thats what I talk about.
Aside from nitpicking, that is basically it.
Everyone talking about whining, trolling, hating asf., everyone not referring to what I say, will be ignored.
Err...wow.
First, I like how you say you are no sandbox fan, then list a large number of sandbox things you want in the game.
1). If you want to go out in the world and just kill stuff, there are ways to do that, and you can do that with a group. There's also PvP stuff and other things to do as a group. They've said all this.
2). We don't know what the crafting system is like for one. Seems like it will be more involved in some manner than WoW. Anyhow, I can understand this complaint, but I can also see how having people spend a lot of time gathering mats and crafting detracts from the heroic aspects of the game and makes the game less focused (which can be bad for the play experience and game design).
3). Thing is, most open space stuff is pretty darn boring. Play EvE or even SWG and a lot of space time is actionless. You're just moving around in a vast empty area (that's what space is). I don't think it is wholly unreasonable that they want to avoid forcing that tedium on their players. Thing is, when most people thing of open space, they think of just the action moments of it, usually from games that were solely focused on space action and hence didn't need to worry about a consistent game experience.
4). People as a group suck at RP non-humans well, unless those non-humans act pretty much just like humans. Also, I don't think they want to half-implement any race. Allow Mon Calamari and they'll need to add romance characters for them -- just turning off romances isn't acceptable to them, I firmly believe. That's a LOT of work with mixed and unproportionate rewards (mixed for RP and immersion reasons, unproportionate because of how much work that all is that could be spent elsewhere during an initial release). Again, I understand the other side of things, but it is on a limited budget and it does seem like they want a truly immersive experience, which pretty much no MMO currently delivers well (it is so easy to break immersion).
5). You mean like saying 90% of the world is open? They did that like 6 months ago. We quote it on here all the time.
6). Err, how would this work exactly? How is this more complicated than dance emotes? Would this be something that would basically require people go and get entertainer buffs even if that wasn't really appropriate (such as for many Jedi)?
7). There is player housing; your ship. Player cities? Eh, all player cities I have ever seen are pretty boring and lame. To say nothing of how this would be a major immersion hurdle. As for some normal stuff, they DO have cantinas and such you can go to if you want and other social areas as well. That seems a lot more sensible than having Jedis show up and build cities during a war (which would be kind of a wallbanger).
8). Well, that's personal taste like you said. I'll be happy if my Consular doesn't have to wear a "dress" during combat. It would be particular cool if my guy could wear Jedi Robes and then take off the outer robe when combat begins or something like that.
I think one thing you need to realize is that they DO have a very specific vision for this game and the sort of experience that want to give players. Trying to do EVERYTHING can easily destroy that and end up with a game with a mishmash of components that don't fit together well. They want a game that gives everyone the feeling of being a hero and doing heroic things complete with an immersive story and universe. That's a high standard, but I think a perfectly respectable goal for an MMO. The thing is, it means adding certain systems and activites will actually harm their ability to achieve that goal and so they should not do those things even if they worked wonderfully in different games (that had different goals).
If I was a Dev, and I read the OP post...........I would have no direction on what he wants in or out of the game.
Here is a tip...........stop being so vague as to why you dont like the game or wont play it.
As a matter of fact, the game doesnt even have a release date, so all you are doing is raging on what is said in interviews besides seeing the graphics (which is the same way SW: KOTOR looked, which this game is modeled after). And no I am not a SWTOR fanboy. Im just tired of the lack of maturity with the MMO community as of late. People gripe and complain about everything and give no contructive feedback or suggestions to the Devs to fix things.
Thats like my wife walking into the room and saying "Im mad! you dont do anything right!". How am I supposd to know what to fix? Details people, details.
If you dont want to play then fine, but I caution not to judge something sooooo far from release, i've done that before and been proven wrong once the game came out or even a couple of months after release.
So many replies, but I guess this is a fair request. I tend to be vague, thinking people will know, because the debate is so old.
First, what I LIKE about SWTOR or think is ok, not that people make endless assumptions. I do NOT want SWG2. While I like some parts of SWG, and due to the great community it was the greatest fun I ever had, the game itself wasn't so great to be just copied. I am NO sandbox fan. So first, what I like about SWTOR:
- quests; I am no sandbox fan, I need direction and stuff to do
- story; again I think this IS the much needed evolution of MMOs, I played Pen and Paper games a long time, and they were story driven too, so I love that idea from SWTOR
- world visuals are by and large ok; only the characters I still think are not "talking to me", meaning having no emotional impact on me; all the planetary vids and screenshots look awesome.
- I am also one who supports classes, I have posted many times that I feel that skill based is a hassle to control and balanced, so again, no disagreement here
- races: it is ok that you can not play totally inhuman beings like a living blob or a spider or an intelligent ocean; impossible to incorporate into story or really playable
So, what is amiss? I am aware those are assumptions based on the info we HAVE. If new info changes that, it is all welcome to me. So the judgement is only "for now".
1) There is too much story. While I want some story, a lot of story even, some times when I log in, I have no patience for story. I just want to go with friends and hunt stuff. I want the freedom to do that, and not a MMO which playes like an all story driven single player game. Even if it is open world, the story looks AT THIS MOMENT as too much story to me. Maybe Bioware made a wrong impression and there IS freedom, but right now I don't see enough of it. MY wish is, to make less story and more "standard" MMO stuff. Keep 50% of your story, but open a the other half for free gaming.
I wasn't aware that you couldn't enter the swamp and slaughter defensless animals without a story to back it up.
Sarcasm aside, it seems you're the one limiting yourself. If you want to go off into a direction and kill certain mobs or just random ones, do it. I doubt they plan to prevent you.
2) Crafting: I want complex crafting, ideally like in Vanguard.
Everything said about crafting was very vague. Wait for more information on this one. I'll be honest, I don't expect a complex crafting system from TOR. I do expect it to be different and entertaining. We'll have to wait and see.
3) I want open space, like in X-Wing, Tie-fighter, Wing Commander asf.
Understandable. I honestly could care less about Space Combat, sure it's STAR wars blah blah blah. Watching the movies, I never envisioned myself as a fighter pilot. I don't have much to say here, other then you like it or you don't. The last question would be can you go without it? It's a yes or no question, people that drag it on and on doing nothing but annoying the people who either A. Don't give a damn or B. Like this system. Instead of asking for them to change the current space system, ask for additions, PUSH for additions.
4) Most important: I want more than just human races. I want to be able to be Bothan, Kel'dor, Nautolan, Rodian, Mon Calamari and some others. Personally I can live without Wookiee or Trandoshan, but I would not mind their addition. I think it is not that difficult to make variables in the stories, like ruling out romances. NPCs are not omnisexual anyway, so it just adds another variable not having a romance option. Bothans, Mon Cal asf. are normal people of the Rebublic; I don't see why they should not be at least half of the classes. I don't think any NPC would be surprised to see a Bothan Smuggler or a Nautolan Jedi. It's Star Wars, after all.
Again, understandable. But I look at it this way. What I want is not always whats best for the game. I would love to play a Trandoshan, but it's not happening. That is the downside to being a fully voiced MMO, nothing is perfect. The plus is we get to experience emotion, and not having to read is a plus. I guess I'm just more willing accept a sacrafice for something that will change the way I play an MMO entirely. I look forward to experiencing it.
5) Bioware should make more clear how much open content and how much closed story instances the game make up, in percentage. I want a good portion of the game just open world quests and grouping with friends.
You're just gonna have to wait, like the rest of us. There isn't anything we can do. Information is starting to speed up, finally. You don't have to be convinced to follow the game. But you shouldn't make an I quit thread before the game is even released.
6) I very much want an Entertainer system. I understand it prolly can't be a real profession (though why not?), but it could be a Hobby system. I don't care if they say 100 times that Han Solo and Darth Vader don't dance. I love the Entertainer system, and that is my wish.
This was something I could care less about. I don't play an MMO to socialize, I play an MMO to co-operate with people in content or to put it blatenly, kill them, in pvp of coarse. I can understand the want for this, but it sure as hell isn't 'needed'. Anyways, why does it have to be a professions for you to enjoy dancing in the game? I don't understand that.
7) Finally, I think the idea that ALL gamers are heroes ALL the time is a mistake. Yes, I like the idea people are heroes MOST of the time. But open up areas of normal life. Like housing, player cities, crafting, entertaining. I don't want the the heroic parts gone, I want to see not heroic "normal" parts be added. I am sure not everyone wants to be hero 24/7. Give us something not heroic to do, so life to built. In every MMO people roleplay normal life, even if the game itself does not offer it. In EQ2 people made one of their houses into a tavern and roleplayed bartender. People WILL do that in SWTOR, but it would be better if the game had tools to support that.
I think people fail to understand what BioWare is going for. It's not about BEING a Hero, it's about FEELING like a hero. When everybody IS heroic, nobody is. But to feel heroic, that's something totally different. And just a few points
Housing - your player ship serves as a house, which I think they said you can bring people into it, they're still discussing customization and its limitations.
Player Cities - I'm glad it's not in the game. Besides to expect this in TOR....really?
Crafting - We know very....very little about it.
Entertainment - You wont need entertainment if the game is entertaining. SWG wasn't aiming for the Han Solo, Luke Skywalker feel. It was aiming for the average joe who goes to a cantina to sell deathsticks or or the guy who has his ass handed to him by Obi-Wan. Again, you have given me the idea you want SWG2.
As for wanting to be normal, just suck at the game. Problem solved.
EDIT: 8) As mentioned, the characater are lacking, visually. Most clothing & gear as well as faces are not artistically as good as I'd wish. Yes, just my personal taste, but thats what I talk about.
The clothing and Gear are fantastic, they represent the classes very well. But then again, I wasn't expecting mundane armor like SWG had. These sets in TOR are both nostalgic and unique.
Aside from nitpicking, that is basically it.
Everyone talking about whining, trolling, hating asf., everyone not referring to what I say, will be ignored.
Honestly, I'm still convinced you want SWG 2.0 or a sandbox mmo, consider it trolling if you want.
Comments
First off, this post wasn't hijacked by detractors. The OP explained why he was not going to play the game, and what he felt were the negatives of the game. The thread was started by a detractor. Threads that support the game are usually "hijacked" when one person posts a descenting opinion in the thread, and all of the blind supporters (fanbois) go crazy and start nerdraging against that poster.
What "frustrates" people who are fanatically excited about TOR are the people pointing out that the game may not be The Greatest video game ever created that those people have built this game up in their minds to be. If you read my entire original post, rather than the one sentence that Kwintpod disagreed with and attacked like a child, you'll see that while I have issues with aspects of the game, I believe the game's storytelling and other features will be great. I also stated that when a free trial is released, I'll likely give it a shot, but I remain skeptical enough to not buy TOR on release. I'm a SW fan, but that does not mean I believe everything with a Star Wars label slapped on it is instantly an amazing product.
What I like or dislike in the game has nothing to do with what SW games or MMO's I've played in the past, but rather every game I've ever played, and the tastes in gameplay I've developed over the years, like any other gamer. I'm not a fan of the game design template that TOR is clearly borrowing from, namely the combat system and characters. For me, no amount of lightsabers, jedi powers, or amazing story will make up forover over-the-top character styles, or a clunky, unenjoyable combat system.
Every game has people that, no matter how great or terrible it is, will defend it to the death, regardless of how oblivious or misguided they may look to everyone else. What is fun, or deeper, is entirely subject to each person. Not everyone will completely praise TOR simply because BW made it, it has a robust story, and it's Star Wars.
This site does not have enough SWTOR fan boys. If you talk bad about TOR you wind up getting a pat on the back around here.
This is exactly what this post is about. A guy looking for a pat on the back. Why do I say this? Well, it is because this is about the 4th topic I think he has started where he talks about why he will not play this game and how he thinks it sucks or what he thinks should be in the game.
It is fine to give your opinion I suppose, but when you create the same post over and over again, that is where the problem lies. There are lots of game I don't plan to play, I doubt I will make a thread about it though.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I doubt most people would be willing to pay 50 for GW2, and another 50 for SW plus monthly.
Aion didn't have an innovative action based gameplay system, which is the major selling point of Tera.
I LOLED. Justin Bieber... XD
Good one! ^^
Yeah, I too think compared to what else is coming, TOR doesn't look so impressive anymore. Just imagine TOR was without Star Wars IP, and then think again how many would be interested. I suppose without SW Ip TOR would rank somewhere along the interest level or Aion or Alganon or such.
I guess the IP and Bioware will sell several million boxes, but if they keep their players... so far I haven't seen anything that tells me to play this game longer than 1 or 2 class stories and then move on. And how long will the standard (=fast!) gamer take it to finish? Maybe three months, and then what?
Do you realize how much interest there was in AION before it was released? It was one of the most highly anticipated games.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Price drop? Most people I know who play MMOs plan to do that.
That and its not like you have to buy both at the same time. I watched gameplay of Tera and I could not tell you how unimpressed I was. It looked like every other P2P Korean MMO out there.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I love when people try to use analogy to compare Online gaming to music. They are 2 different things. Justin Beiber is a joke. Classical music isn't my kind of music either. But TOR does not = Justin Beiber
There is a difference between boring gameplay, and action filled adventure. I would rather have action filled adventure, even if your analogy shows it to be the justin beiber of the MMO world. I hate justin beiber , btw and any other one of these phony R and B or manufactured artists they have running around nowadays.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Interesting analogy. Not quite sure it fits because you would have to make a compelling argument that Mr. Beiber was SWToR and not some other game. Not sure I buy that. Also, "classical" music is a very large blanket word for many types of music OR a very specific time period when Mozart worked. One can point to the very technical, in depth music of Bach (which is baroque but falls under the huge blanket of "classical music") and then the counter to that which was the easy to get into, less complicated Stile Galant. All types of media have their day and then some sort of counter to what is the status quo comes along. But I digress...
I don't believe that Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally. I just don't know where you are getting that other than those games have something you value and therefore you are making the leap that all people value that.
My guess is that both Tera and GW2 will have different game play than SWToR. Because of this they aren't in direct competition with SWToR. Probably in more competition with each other.
To that point, SWToR will reach out to non- game players more than GW2 or Tera will do just because it's STar Wars.
GW2 and Tera will only be talked about by gamers. SWToR will be in the news because it transcends just being a mere game and is a cultural icon of a sort.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That analogy doesn't work. We're not talking about how music has changed over hundreds of years. We're talking about something that has changed over a little more than a year (mid 2003 to later 2004 when WoW was released). If SWG had been a really good, really solid game, then it would have captured a massive, massive number of people like or instead of WoW. SWG certainly had the more popular IP, afterall.
I find directly comparing TERA and TOR to be rather odd. TERA has a massive PvP component and so is obviously designed for a different sort of player. Those sorts of games in the last 5 or more years have not seemed insanely popular overall. Lots of people prefer to not to be hacked up by other players in the open game world, generally speaking. Not that such games can't be successful, but generally they don't do nearly as well as less PvP-centric games from what I've noticed. If TERA has thought up something to address this, then please tell me because I haven't heard of it (but to be fair I haven't been following TERA very closely).
TOR is focused more on people who want a world where the NPC-element feels alive and you can interact with it. Hence stories where you make choices that matter (which is a huge step up from a game like WoW), and a focus on making other things seem more cinematic and heroic as well, such as fighting more than one enemy at once. I see this as something that positively builds upon what other very successful and mostly PvE games have done, and so it seems like there's a high likelihood it will work.
Now, GW2 is certainly interesting. Dynamic Events are cool as heck. TOR probably is less purely innovative than GW2, but that doesn't mean TOR doesn't have a significant amount of innovation.
I guess both Tera and Rift will have difficulties because GW and TOR are way more known. GW2 will be the big competitor if they play their cards right, and they too say to have lots of story and also full VO.
In MY very unimportant opinion that is way more what made WOW such a success. Warcraft was very well known and very popular among gamers, and Bliz was know for its BattleNet and stuff like Diablo und Starcraft in some online mode. So they had a strong fundament to built on. Now you say, but didn't Star Wars have a big community too? Yes, but fan community and game community are two pair of shoes, which is where the entire analogy people always bring, fails. So the success of WOW has little to do if WOW was good or bad.
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would just add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
And now don't come to me and tell me "hater hater", but tell me for REAL, what does make TOR so special and NOT mediocre and standard fare? I really just do not see that. And that's not hating, it's telling what I see. I mean, really, why are you so adamant against more diverse choices?
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want to store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Actually, the game sounds quite fun to me just the way Bioware is designing it. I can think of nothing worse than making it more like SWG... a game I thoroughly hate.
But that's just me... and the majority of MMO gamers. You guys are the very vocal minority... although it may not seem that way here at MMORPG.com.
I copy it, because I wanna know your answer:
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want the store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
Now you get your vanilla, and I don't want to take that away. I just want them to add more flavours, for other sorts of appetite. WHY does that bother you? When I say, I want extended crafting. Ok you don't like it, don't craft. I say, I want open space fight; you don't like it you don't HAVE to. I say I want non human races, you say, I don't like it, ok then don't PLAY them. What is the deal???
Why must a game be limited to just ONE taste? Why can't it add more different tastes? I don't understand.
I prefer cake over icecream.
I think the better analogy is that we're both hungry and we go to one of the world's best and most famous pizza places. I want pizza, so I'm happy that they serve pizza. You, on the other hand, want ice cream (because your favorite ice cream store closed down and had a similar name) and you continually whine and demand that the pizza place start serving ice cream... something they are neither equipped for nor experienced at. If they start attempting to serve both things, they will probaby fail at both and the business will suffer.
In the case of SWTOR, if they were really to cater to the SWG whiners, they would have to fundamentally change the game in a way that would destroy all of their previous work. How would they be able to offer a skill-based system or more choices in classes without completely destroying the story-based framework they have created? The answer is they couldn't. It is not possible to offer a unique storyline to every class if there are no classes... or if there are 30+ of them. It is also not possible to have sprawling player-ghettos everywhere if they want the maps to be well designed. The two ideas really can't work together if you have read anything about Bioware's vision for the game.
Now, that's not to say that they can't offer a decent crafting system... and NEWS FLASH: They say they have. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they have done their homework won't we?
EDIT: I also prefer cake over ice cream.
SWGers will never be happy until they get SWG2. They should get something like cancer so they can see what a real problem is and that NGE really as important as they have been ranting about for years.
Many, many Star Wars fans also play computer games. There is a massive, massive overlap as the retail success of even bad Star Wars games shows (to say nothing of the good ones). So I don't buy that the populations are a disparate as you say.
It really depends on what you mean by a lot of that. If by "real crafting" you mean going around mining resources for hours, then yeah, that WOULD detract from the game one way or another. Either the crafting stuff is the best, in which case they force people to do crafting who don't want to (because the people interested in that wouldn't meet the demand), or it is inferior in which case it is a waste even for people who like it. Beyond that, let's wait and see what crafting IS going to be like before we bash it. "Real Space" sounds nice, then you realize that it is a vast emptiness and most of your time out there is spent just flying in a straight line and wasting time. That's why they are going for a much more focused system that gets you into the action and has a lot of cinematic control so they can make sure the play is fun and the experience solid -- the space combat is very strongly aligned with their vision and concept for the game and I for one think it is a great thing when a developer actually sticks with a good concept rather than waffles around making a bunch of stuff that doesn't seemlessly fit together. As for social areas, those ARE in the game.
Regarding races, I think there's a very good reason not to have Wookiees and the like as playable races. Hardly anyone would respect the IP of those races properly (That's just how players are). Most of the Wookiee players would ignore life debts, fight with their claws in melee (if that was an option), and do many other things that would turn Wookiees into humans in funny suits rather the distinct and awesome culture they are. Denying players here vastly increases the immersiveness of the game world; we get something that really feels like the Old Republic and feels alive. If that means your flavor of ice cream isn't going to be served then so be it. Someone else might like turning into a crazed serial killer Jedi and just hacking apart newbies in a FFA PvP environment, but while that might be appropriate for other games it would definitely not be right for TOR.
I can not agree with you. It is not logically so, that adding another sort of food naturally ruins the one they already serve. That's just totally illogical. Why would their pizza get worse because they added an ice cream machine? That's just not logical.
As to the game. When they add good crafting, how does that make the other parts of the game bad?
Stop calling people whiners, or referring to SWG. It really does not do your point credit to handle with such vocabulary. Don't take in things I didn't say, like skill based system. Refer to what I suggest not what I never suggested.
I am sorry if someone feels misread, but following the discussion I get the impression some people don't even WANT to talk rationally, they just want to fight and be right for the sake of being right. So far most people who critizised the OP haven't brought a single logical point as why expanding the game is a bad thing, and what you say, Anubisan, isn't any more logical. Why the addition of more races or classes, better crafting or open space, entertaining or whatever would damage the existing things is something you have not answered still. And I start to assume that isn't what you want. You just want to be right.
Fine, have it your way then. I just think you know that, whoever of us is right, you aren't really open to even consider any critique. Bioware is god and everyone saying otherwise is heretic. Still, the OP must have put some sting of doubt into your hearts, or you wouldn't fight to vividly to proof your point here. If his words were just folly, people would laugh and move on; they wouldn't spent 300 posts time here trying to proof him wrong.
I think you yourself have way more doubt than you admit, and you guys brand us as "whiners" and "haters" because deep down you fear we may be right. I assume that is in fact the case here. You are afraid the OP is right. We never attack what does not matter to us.
Originally posted by Yunbei
I guess both Tera and Rift will have difficulties because GW and TOR are way more known. GW2 will be the big competitor if they play their cards right, and they too say to have lots of story and also full VO.
In MY very unimportant opinion that is way more what made WOW such a success. Warcraft was very well known and very popular among gamers, and Bliz was know for its BattleNet and stuff like Diablo und Starcraft in some online mode. So they had a strong fundament to built on. Now you say, but didn't Star Wars have a big community too? Yes, but fan community and game community are two pair of shoes, which is where the entire analogy people always bring, fails. So the success of WOW has little to do if WOW was good or bad.
The Star Wars video game history spanned over 2 decades, across dozens of platforms and had close to 75 diiferent variations. This means it touched based with a helluva lot more gamers than Blizzard's IP. And before WoW I knew nothing of warcraft or Blizzard, nor did any of my friends that played WoW. We were dedicated MMO players and never really got into RTS games. We barely touched Diablo/Diablo II and wondered why all the hoopla about them. But WoW still managed to capture a loin's share of the market. Why?
I still think the good parts of SWG could and should have been taken into TOR, and that would not make it a Frankenstein. Making some REAL crafting, some REAL space fighting, some entertaining/social sector and real class & race diversity would not go against the story part of TOR. It would just add more depth, and I don't see why some people fight against depth and complexity with claws and teeth. Is it so hard to admit that TOR is prolly ok, but just another mediocre MMO like dozens before? I mean, sure it will be fun, IMO. But none of you guys can seriously tell me that TOR in anything but a half baked standard fare of "more of the same". There is just zip creativity beyond their fabled "story", tell me what you want. It's not that I hate TOR. I love it! But still I am open minded enough to accept, taken what we have seen its awfully mediocre for a $150 million bucks.
Trying to mix two distinct versions of a game with the same IP is like trying to splice parts of digital Star Wars footage within the original movie. How'd that work out for ol' George? Or better yet look how Rami chopped up his own version of the original movie over and over with each sequel of the Evil Dead trilogy. If you're not gonna include the telling of the prequel correctly the first time, don't bother at all. Especially when you make it worst with each sequel. I'd rather have a Bioware's version of a KOTOR mmorpg than SWG reimagined......isn't that what NGE was?
And now don't come to me and tell me "hater hater", but tell me for REAL, what does make TOR so special and NOT mediocre and standard fare? I really just do not see that. And that's not hating, it's telling what I see. I mean, really, why are you so adamant against more diverse choices?
See this is where the confusion is. I'm not telling you why SWTOR will be special, I'm telling you why it will be special for me. But before I can justify why it's gonna be cool for me. You and a bunch of others cut it off and say meh...that ain't so special who cares about story arcs, moral choices, ship housing, events that include using your ship in space, companions that do more than just follow you around, building a lightsaber and teaming up to take on a group of sith on a war-torn planet. Well, I do...and so do a lot of people here.....just not you.
It's like we went to an ice cream shop. You order vanilla, and I wan't chocolate. Then the store owner says, I only server vanilla, everything else does not fit my design idea. So I say, hey, there are potentially more customers if you have cocolate and strawberry and a dozen more types of ice. But you, my fellow customer say, no, I get my vanilla and I don't want other customers to have their ice creme sort, I want to store only to sell MY fav sort. Now would that be reasonable?
No, it's more like we go into Baskin Robins for a scoop of ice cream on a waffle cone. So I place my order of chocolate mousse royale and you ask for a scoop of vanilla and a scoop of chocolate mixed with a cup of sprinkles and a cup of M&Ms. Then the cashier and I look each other then look at you like you got your ice cream shops mixed up. Then she politely points out to you that Cold Stone is down the street. We don't serve ice cream that way here at Baskin Robins. I then tell you if you wanted you ice cream served the way Cold Stone does, why didn't you just ask to stop there on the way here. Don't go assuming just because they both serve ice cream that they'll cater to your way because you've had ice cream that way before. Kinda like how you think a SW mmo should be made just because it was made that way before.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
If I was a Dev, and I read the OP post...........I would have no direction on what he wants in or out of the game.
Here is a tip...........stop being so vague as to why you dont like the game or wont play it.
As a matter of fact, the game doesnt even have a release date, so all you are doing is raging on what is said in interviews besides seeing the graphics (which is the same way SW: KOTOR looked, which this game is modeled after). And no I am not a SWTOR fanboy. Im just tired of the lack of maturity with the MMO community as of late. People gripe and complain about everything and give no contructive feedback or suggestions to the Devs to fix things.
Thats like my wife walking into the room and saying "Im mad! you dont do anything right!". How am I supposd to know what to fix? Details people, details.
If you dont want to play then fine, but I caution not to judge something sooooo far from release, i've done that before and been proven wrong once the game came out or even a couple of months after release.
So many replies, but I guess this is a fair request. I tend to be vague, thinking people will know, because the debate is so old.
First, what I LIKE about SWTOR or think is ok, not that people make endless assumptions. I do NOT want SWG2. While I like some parts of SWG, and due to the great community it was the greatest fun I ever had, the game itself wasn't so great to be just copied. I am NO sandbox fan. So first, what I like about SWTOR:
- quests; I am no sandbox fan, I need direction and stuff to do
- story; again I think this IS the much needed evolution of MMOs, I played Pen and Paper games a long time, and they were story driven too, so I love that idea from SWTOR
- world visuals are by and large ok; only the characters I still think are not "talking to me", meaning having no emotional impact on me; all the planetary vids and screenshots look awesome.
- I am also one who supports classes, I have posted many times that I feel that skill based is a hassle to control and balanced, so again, no disagreement here
- races: it is ok that you can not play totally inhuman beings like a living blob or a spider or an intelligent ocean; impossible to incorporate into story or really playable
So, what is amiss? I am aware those are assumptions based on the info we HAVE. If new info changes that, it is all welcome to me. So the judgement is only "for now".
1) There is too much story. While I want some story, a lot of story even, some times when I log in, I have no patience for story. I just want to go with friends and hunt stuff. I want the freedom to do that, and not a MMO which playes like an all story driven single player game. Even if it is open world, the story looks AT THIS MOMENT as too much story to me. Maybe Bioware made a wrong impression and there IS freedom, but right now I don't see enough of it. MY wish is, to make less story and more "standard" MMO stuff. Keep 50% of your story, but open a the other half for free gaming.
2) Crafting: I want complex crafting, ideally like in Vanguard.
3) I want open space, like in X-Wing, Tie-fighter, Wing Commander asf.
4) Most important: I want more than just human races. I want to be able to be Bothan, Kel'dor, Nautolan, Rodian, Mon Calamari and some others. Personally I can live without Wookiee or Trandoshan, but I would not mind their addition. I think it is not that difficult to make variables in the stories, like ruling out romances. NPCs are not omnisexual anyway, so it just adds another variable not having a romance option. Bothans, Mon Cal asf. are normal people of the Rebublic; I don't see why they should not be at least half of the classes. I don't think any NPC would be surprised to see a Bothan Smuggler or a Nautolan Jedi. It's Star Wars, after all.
5) Bioware should make more clear how much open content and how much closed story instances the game make up, in percentage. I want a good portion of the game just open world quests and grouping with friends.
6) I very much want an Entertainer system. I understand it prolly can't be a real profession (though why not?), but it could be a Hobby system. I don't care if they say 100 times that Han Solo and Darth Vader don't dance. I love the Entertainer system, and that is my wish.
7) Finally, I think the idea that ALL gamers are heroes ALL the time is a mistake. Yes, I like the idea people are heroes MOST of the time. But open up areas of normal life. Like housing, player cities, crafting, entertaining. I don't want the the heroic parts gone, I want to see not heroic "normal" parts be added. I am sure not everyone wants to be hero 24/7. Give us something not heroic to do, so life to built. In every MMO people roleplay normal life, even if the game itself does not offer it. In EQ2 people made one of their houses into a tavern and roleplayed bartender. People WILL do that in SWTOR, but it would be better if the game had tools to support that.
EDIT: 8) As mentioned, the characater are lacking, visually. Most clothing & gear as well as faces are not artistically as good as I'd wish. Yes, just my personal taste, but thats what I talk about.
Aside from nitpicking, that is basically it.
Everyone talking about whining, trolling, hating asf., everyone not referring to what I say, will be ignored.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Final note: Most of what goes on here is drama for the sake of drama if your really interested, grab a magazine, read pax news, go to swtor.com and read for yourself. Don't judge by what goes on here. Lots of emotions flying around and lots of misconceptions on both ends. Get the news from the source.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
That's it - I am quit my interest in English...and logic.
Err...wow.
First, I like how you say you are no sandbox fan, then list a large number of sandbox things you want in the game.
1). If you want to go out in the world and just kill stuff, there are ways to do that, and you can do that with a group. There's also PvP stuff and other things to do as a group. They've said all this.
2). We don't know what the crafting system is like for one. Seems like it will be more involved in some manner than WoW. Anyhow, I can understand this complaint, but I can also see how having people spend a lot of time gathering mats and crafting detracts from the heroic aspects of the game and makes the game less focused (which can be bad for the play experience and game design).
3). Thing is, most open space stuff is pretty darn boring. Play EvE or even SWG and a lot of space time is actionless. You're just moving around in a vast empty area (that's what space is). I don't think it is wholly unreasonable that they want to avoid forcing that tedium on their players. Thing is, when most people thing of open space, they think of just the action moments of it, usually from games that were solely focused on space action and hence didn't need to worry about a consistent game experience.
4). People as a group suck at RP non-humans well, unless those non-humans act pretty much just like humans. Also, I don't think they want to half-implement any race. Allow Mon Calamari and they'll need to add romance characters for them -- just turning off romances isn't acceptable to them, I firmly believe. That's a LOT of work with mixed and unproportionate rewards (mixed for RP and immersion reasons, unproportionate because of how much work that all is that could be spent elsewhere during an initial release). Again, I understand the other side of things, but it is on a limited budget and it does seem like they want a truly immersive experience, which pretty much no MMO currently delivers well (it is so easy to break immersion).
5). You mean like saying 90% of the world is open? They did that like 6 months ago. We quote it on here all the time.
6). Err, how would this work exactly? How is this more complicated than dance emotes? Would this be something that would basically require people go and get entertainer buffs even if that wasn't really appropriate (such as for many Jedi)?
7). There is player housing; your ship. Player cities? Eh, all player cities I have ever seen are pretty boring and lame. To say nothing of how this would be a major immersion hurdle. As for some normal stuff, they DO have cantinas and such you can go to if you want and other social areas as well. That seems a lot more sensible than having Jedis show up and build cities during a war (which would be kind of a wallbanger).
8). Well, that's personal taste like you said. I'll be happy if my Consular doesn't have to wear a "dress" during combat. It would be particular cool if my guy could wear Jedi Robes and then take off the outer robe when combat begins or something like that.
I think one thing you need to realize is that they DO have a very specific vision for this game and the sort of experience that want to give players. Trying to do EVERYTHING can easily destroy that and end up with a game with a mishmash of components that don't fit together well. They want a game that gives everyone the feeling of being a hero and doing heroic things complete with an immersive story and universe. That's a high standard, but I think a perfectly respectable goal for an MMO. The thing is, it means adding certain systems and activites will actually harm their ability to achieve that goal and so they should not do those things even if they worked wonderfully in different games (that had different goals).