First, I like how you say you are no sandbox fan, then list a large number of sandbox things you want in the game.
1). If you want to go out in the world and just kill stuff, there are ways to do that, and you can do that with a group. There's also PvP stuff and other things to do as a group. They've said all this.
2). We don't know what the crafting system is like for one. Seems like it will be more involved in some manner than WoW. Anyhow, I can understand this complaint, but I can also see how having people spend a lot of time gathering mats and crafting detracts from the heroic aspects of the game and makes the game less focused (which can be bad for the play experience and game design).
3). Thing is, most open space stuff is pretty darn boring. Play EvE or even SWG and a lot of space time is actionless. You're just moving around in a vast empty area (that's what space is). I don't think it is wholly unreasonable that they want to avoid forcing that tedium on their players. Thing is, when most people thing of open space, they think of just the action moments of it, usually from games that were solely focused on space action and hence didn't need to worry about a consistent game experience.
4). People as a group suck at RP non-humans well, unless those non-humans act pretty much just like humans. Also, I don't think they want to half-implement any race. Allow Mon Calamari and they'll need to add romance characters for them -- just turning off romances isn't acceptable to them, I firmly believe. That's a LOT of work with mixed and unproportionate rewards (mixed for RP and immersion reasons, unproportionate because of how much work that all is that could be spent elsewhere during an initial release). Again, I understand the other side of things, but it is on a limited budget and it does seem like they want a truly immersive experience, which pretty much no MMO currently delivers well (it is so easy to break immersion).
5). You mean like saying 90% of the world is open? They did that like 6 months ago. We quote it on here all the time.
6). Err, how would this work exactly? How is this more complicated than dance emotes? Would this be something that would basically require people go and get entertainer buffs even if that wasn't really appropriate (such as for many Jedi)?
7). There is player housing; your ship. Player cities? Eh, all player cities I have ever seen are pretty boring and lame. To say nothing of how this would be a major immersion hurdle. As for some normal stuff, they DO have cantinas and such you can go to if you want and other social areas as well. That seems a lot more sensible than having Jedis show up and build cities during a war (which would be kind of a wallbanger).
8). Well, that's personal taste like you said. I'll be happy if my Consular doesn't have to wear a "dress" during combat. It would be particular cool if my guy could wear Jedi Robes and then take off the outer robe when combat begins or something like that.
I think one thing you need to realize is that they DO have a very specific vision for this game and the sort of experience that want to give players. Trying to do EVERYTHING can easily destroy that and end up with a game with a mishmash of components that don't fit together well. They want a game that gives everyone the feeling of being a hero and doing heroic things complete with an immersive story and universe. That's a high standard, but I think a perfectly respectable goal for an MMO. The thing is, it means adding certain systems and activites will actually harm their ability to achieve that goal and so they should not do those things even if they worked wonderfully in different games (that had different goals).
Ok to the points I want to clarify.
2) They said "Darth Vader doesn't craft chairs" (or something like that); I don't want to be an iconic hero 24/7. It's ok to be heroic often, but not always, so I would enjoy much diverse crafting, and I guess that is a wish of many.
3) I love open space exactly for that reason: There isn't always something going on. I know, it must sound absurd to you. I loved Vanguard or SWG for the same reason: I loved just walking/riding through vast worlds. You know, what annoys the living hell out of me in games like LOTRO or EQ2 is: the ENTIRE darn world is crammed filled with mobs. A bear or boar EVERY 2 meters. It so gives me the feeling of being in some preset theme park. In nature, there are just not so much critters so evenly spread. Now while a game can't be all like real life, esp. LOTRO annoyed me like hell in this. Every inch is full with mobs, and the respawn rate is insidiously high. When a MMO is designed so that every part is only there for a function, it diminishes my feeling of a reality. Reality is a planet like in SWG, where large parts are just "there" and "empty". It gives me the feeling of reality, as contrary to worlds which feel artificial, when all is filled with mobs and "things to do." Same goes with space.
EDIT: I think Point 3 here is the focal point for me. The implementation of non essential things to make a world feel real: If you are unsure what I talk about, re read it.
4) Not my experience. I met many who RPed aliens very well.
6) Dunno what Entertaining could do, maybe give some buffs. LOTRO has music making; it does not serve any purpose, but it filled me with happyness, seeing some Music Band of players in some Tavern or some place. It just makes a place feel more alive. Again, its the addition of non functional things, of things not serving some gain or experience or purpose which make a game rich. Yes, I want *some* sandboxish elements. But I still want the story and quest too. I don't see why a game can't have both.
7) My guild's player city, North Beach from Starsider, was very active and visited. Player Cities need function to work, if you just give people houses and no function, they stay dead. I see most player cities in other games are just ghost towns, because the have no purpose. AoC player cities are also relatively well used, at least in my guild. And in AoC I never felt less heroic because I did simple chores like gathering wood or stone for our city. "For a great mind, no work is too small." Really, maybe you tick different, but I feel relaxed doing simple tasks sometimes. Like gathering materials. It just soothes me when I am fatigued from hero combat.
Overall, I feel that the heroic NEEDS the normal as contrast, to stand out. And I need personally need a relaxation from hero business in my MMO. I feel SWTOR is going to be over-specialized, and again I need to play several MMOs to cover all my appetites. I would have preferred an approach less exclusively focussed on heroic story. Still with heroic story as the main focus, but less as the only focus. I still think a 150 million dollar budged should have that in store, at least to *some* degree.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
2) They said "Darth Vader doesn't craft chairs" (or something like that); I don't want to be an iconic hero 24/7. It's ok to be heroic often, but not always, so I would enjoy much diverse crafting, and I guess that is a wish of many.
If I was a Dev, and I read the OP post...........I would have no direction on what he wants in or out of the game.
Here is a tip...........stop being so vague as to why you dont like the game or wont play it.
As a matter of fact, the game doesnt even have a release date, so all you are doing is raging on what is said in interviews besides seeing the graphics (which is the same way SW: KOTOR looked, which this game is modeled after). And no I am not a SWTOR fanboy. Im just tired of the lack of maturity with the MMO community as of late. People gripe and complain about everything and give no contructive feedback or suggestions to the Devs to fix things.
Thats like my wife walking into the room and saying "Im mad! you dont do anything right!". How am I supposd to know what to fix? Details people, details.
If you dont want to play then fine, but I caution not to judge something sooooo far from release, i've done that before and been proven wrong once the game came out or even a couple of months after release.
So many replies, but I guess this is a fair request. I tend to be vague, thinking people will know, because the debate is so old.
First, what I LIKE about SWTOR or think is ok, not that people make endless assumptions. I do NOT want SWG2. While I like some parts of SWG, and due to the great community it was the greatest fun I ever had, the game itself wasn't so great to be just copied. I am NO sandbox fan. So first, what I like about SWTOR:
- quests; I am no sandbox fan, I need direction and stuff to do
- story; again I think this IS the much needed evolution of MMOs, I played Pen and Paper games a long time, and they were story driven too, so I love that idea from SWTOR
- world visuals are by and large ok; only the characters I still think are not "talking to me", meaning having no emotional impact on me; all the planetary vids and screenshots look awesome.
- I am also one who supports classes, I have posted many times that I feel that skill based is a hassle to control and balanced, so again, no disagreement here
-I actually don't like the direction the classes went in. I'd like a approach more like GW2 (but that's my opinion)
- races: it is ok that you can not play totally inhuman beings like a living blob or a spider or an intelligent ocean; impossible to incorporate into story or really playable
So, what is amiss? I am aware those are assumptions based on the info we HAVE. If new info changes that, it is all welcome to me. So the judgement is only "for now".
1) There is too much story. While I want some story, a lot of story even, some times when I log in, I have no patience for story. I just want to go with friends and hunt stuff. I want the freedom to do that, and not a MMO which playes like an all story driven single player game. Even if it is open world, the story looks AT THIS MOMENT as too much story to me. Maybe Bioware made a wrong impression and there IS freedom, but right now I don't see enough of it. MY wish is, to make less story and more "standard" MMO stuff. Keep 50% of your story, but open a the other half for free gaming.
Well if it's anything like KOTOR then you'd know that during the game the area you were in for that story arc was open for you to explore. You could come back after any amount of time and continue the story. They were written in a way were it was fine to deviate from the main story. But now instead of a small area to explore you have a vastly expanded galaxy. So nothing stopping you from halting your investigation in a matter to make a run to another part of the galaxy for a little PvP then head back to continue your investigation.
2) Crafting: I want complex crafting, ideally like in Vanguard.
I'd love for a complex crafting system, but the more complex the crafting systems the more lost you get into such a system and that's not what Star Wars is about. How many times have you spent insane amounts of time crafting something just to fail. And the thought of having to do it all over again was so far from your mind thatr you stop for the night. Or your friends need you to help with something and all you do is sit around crafting stuff by yourself until you get that perfect piece, just to see someone has made something better already. Crafting needs to be engaging but controlled. I don't want to spend days skilling up, just to see my items lose it's usefulness after gaining 2 levels. I would love to see specific materials only found on certain planets. That would be cool.
3) I want open space, like in X-Wing, Tie-fighter, Wing Commander asf.
When you introduce something as complex as a entire game or expansion to a already planned out game. You tend to complicate things on a level you never intended in the first place. If they want players to indentify with their avatars through the choices they make with them, how they look and the companions they surround themselves with, why would you allocate resources to something that defeats that purpose? At this stage in the game you want things that do not enhance your primary focus (which is player interaction through storytelling and socializing) to be momentary distractions at best, not focal points. You save that for later, maybe through expansions.
4) Most important: I want more than just human races. I want to be able to be Bothan, Kel'dor, Nautolan, Rodian, Mon Calamari and some others. Personally I can live without Wookiee or Trandoshan, but I would not mind their addition. I think it is not that difficult to make variables in the stories, like ruling out romances. NPCs are not omnisexual anyway, so it just adds another variable not having a romance option. Bothans, Mon Cal asf. are normal people of the Rebublic; I don't see why they should not be at least half of the classes. I don't think any NPC would be surprised to see a Bothan Smuggler or a Nautolan Jedi. It's Star Wars, after all.
Again I too would love to see more exotic races be included, but as I scan my memory banks for other races that dominated the IP other than humans and human-like species, my mind draws a blank. All I remember from the movies is the empire discriminated against non-humans for the most part. I'm not saying that that's a bases for their decision. But you do have to take in account that with each race introduced, you have to include their culture, homeworld, languages and an explanation as to why they are doing what they are doing. So far the races reflect a connection to the classes and the conflict at hand. Maybe it's me but all the KOTOR games tended to focus on human expansion and influences in the galaxy.
5) Bioware should make more clear how much open content and how much closed story instances the game make up, in percentage. I want a good portion of the game just open world quests and grouping with friends.
Why? Are you personally putting up to finance this endeavor? All good things in time. Why go through the hassle of stating something that may change in 6 months? The game isn't even in closed beta and you want a open beta answer. I'm sure there will be more than enough traditional mmo trappings for you and your friends. But even in the slightest chance that they have more closed story stuff on par with Tortage from AoC, then I'd be fine with that too.
6) I very much want an Entertainer system. I understand it prolly can't be a real profession (though why not?), but it could be a Hobby system. I don't care if they say 100 times that Han Solo and Darth Vader don't dance. I love the Entertainer system, and that is my wish.
This was one of the most boring jobs they had in SWG. You actually had people not even playing the game while skilluping this profession. It was like having human NPCs, a AFK job. Or more like human bots, very limited and stationary bots. If anything how can you make this even remotely exciting? Darn near every mmo in the history of mmo has this feature anyway. It's called: /dance
7) Finally, I think the idea that ALL gamers are heroes ALL the time is a mistake. Yes, I like the idea people are heroes MOST of the time. But open up areas of normal life. Like housing, player cities, crafting, entertaining. I don't want the the heroic parts gone, I want to see not heroic "normal" parts be added. I am sure not everyone wants to be hero 24/7. Give us something not heroic to do, so life to built. In every MMO people roleplay normal life, even if the game itself does not offer it. In EQ2 people made one of their houses into a tavern and roleplayed bartender. People WILL do that in SWTOR, but it would be better if the game had tools to support that.
Again why? Do we need all that when it boils down to it? I say it depends on the type of MMO you're making. Maybe a sandboxy mmo, but this? Nope. Too much other stuff to do other than trying to appease such a finicky crowd. Customize your ship, search for unique companions, play a merchant, explore every inch of every planet. Make a short SWTOR movie about you adventures on youtube. Like you said, players will dream up their own content, it hasn't stop them so far...
EDIT: 8) As mentioned, the characater are lacking, visually. Most clothing & gear as well as faces are not artistically as good as I'd wish. Yes, just my personal taste, but thats what I talk about.
They look fine to me personally. And this is coming from someone that at first hated the look when I seen the first screenshots of TOR. I'm quite sure they'll get somewhat better with more time.
Aside from nitpicking, that is basically it.
Everyone talking about whining, trolling, hating asf., everyone not referring to what I say, will be ignored.
I tried to touch on all your points, since you were kind enough to go into further detail.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I keep seeing posts like this about every game that's released and I can't help but thinking that there are so many people who just want to bitch about games- both released and unreleased. It seems that the games that they like are the ones who don't do very well and that is because they like a certain style of play. This isn't even about the sandbox vs. themepark argument, it's more that these people like "indie" games because they are indie. They probably like music that no one else likes because it's hip to like that music and they probably like movies like that because they're different and not part of the main-stream as well.
Mainstream is mainstream because it is the most popular in a category. Games like WoW, EQ, LOTRO, DDO, etc. etc aren't popular because they are boring to play. They are popular because they are fun to the masses. I find that most sandboxes require lots and lots of tedium and "imagination" to play. I pay $15 a month to be entertained- to unwind from my high-pressure job and life- not to add to it.
With all due respect, you are 100% wrong. At it's peak, after release, SWG was the 2nd most successful MMORPG next to EQ, ever. Then, the CU and NGEs happened. Why are people not playing. Read the article. Read the old SWG threads. I don't have to rehash everything. It's well documented. SWGs is a prime example that when customers have worked their asses off for years for achievements, you don't completely revamp a game and make those achievements meaningless. The Devs and Lucas Arts royally screwed up and killed their own success.
SWG was relatively popular at release. Then WoW came along and showed what a popular IP and good game design could really do as far as a customer base.
Classical music was popular once upon a time, and then Justin Bieber came along and showed the world what real music was.
What about this Bioware.
SWTOR has several main selling points: a popular IP, a popular company, and a packed storyline.
Normally I would consider this a shortterm success MMO because of its potential to grab so much of its single player RPG base. However, with the innovative action combat based Tera coming out before TOR, as I believe, and the dynamic and potentially game changing GW probably early summer, the selling points of TOR really look unimpressive in comparison.
Bioware is targeting the single player and console based crowd, but Tera offers action based gameplay that is signature in many console games, and GW2 is sticking with a cheap pay model and a low grind/easy access MMO concept. Furthermore, I think Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally, than SWTOR.
Its gonna be really tough for TOR to be competitive. I suspect they will capitalize further on their IP, but the problem is their game is so storybased, they will need large profits to inject content at an acceptable rate. And that is a slippery slope.
Interesting analogy. Not quite sure it fits because you would have to make a compelling argument that Mr. Beiber was SWToR and not some other game. Not sure I buy that. Also, "classical" music is a very large blanket word for many types of music OR a very specific time period when Mozart worked. One can point to the very technical, in depth music of Bach (which is baroque but falls under the huge blanket of "classical music") and then the counter to that which was the easy to get into, less complicated Stile Galant. All types of media have their day and then some sort of counter to what is the status quo comes along. But I digress...
I was hoping no one would reply to my post, so I wouldn't have to clarify anything.
A few people noted that music and online games can't be compared. I guess I should be more specific. I'm simply pointing out the evolution of the genre, where it slowly degrades as it becomes more PROFIT driven.
Its a perfect comparison to the MMO genre. I could write another 10 pages on this, but I don't feel like it. I invite others to think about it for themselves.
I think the next big evolution in the genre will be community created MMOs. Not for profit games made by large communities for the community. But we don't yet have the tools or ease of access to these things.
I don't believe that Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally. I just don't know where you are getting that other than those games have something you value and therefore you are making the leap that all people value that.
Regarding this. Tera and GW2 will be more successful internationally because Tera will try to hit the same Eastern demographics that Aion hit, and GW2, the sequel to the popular GW1 in Eastern countries, should have a good reception as well, especially with the massive F2P crowd.
My guess is that both Tera and GW2 will have different game play than SWToR. Because of this they aren't in direct competition with SWToR. Probably in more competition with each other.
To that point, SWToR will reach out to non- game players more than GW2 or Tera will do just because it's STar Wars.
Sure, for the first couple of months. But we all know how successful games are that are based on short term focuses right? Tortage in AoC? Or what about Star Trek. A lot of people dropped that despite the IP. I believe people have better tastes and expectations in entertainment then simply the genre of fantasy.
GW2 and Tera will only be talked about by gamers. SWToR will be in the news because it transcends just being a mere game and is a cultural icon of a sort.
That goes back to another issue I raise in other discussions. Big AAA games focus so much on pre release investment and advertising before the game comes out. When you think about it, it makes no sense. Shouldn't you advertise your game after it makes a sustainable profit and proves to be a success?
Blockbuster gaming companies don't think like this, because of the shortterm benefits of gambling with oftentimes foolish MMO playerbases.
Are companies with this mindset the ones we should be trusting to make great MMOs we will play for months or years?
2) They said "Darth Vader doesn't craft chairs" (or something like that); I don't want to be an iconic hero 24/7. It's ok to be heroic often, but not always, so I would enjoy much diverse crafting, and I guess that is a wish of many.
bioware said this?
anakin skywalker was an accomplished engineer.
Yes, yes he was. I could go all nerdspastic and point out he built C3P0, a pod racer, and worked as an engineer as a slave for a good part of his childhood but that would make me look like a turbo FanBoi. Wait...
There was also evidence that he was a fixer upper as he started to fall to the dark side...
There I go again...
I'm hopeless.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
2) They said "Darth Vader doesn't craft chairs" (or something like that); I don't want to be an iconic hero 24/7. It's ok to be heroic often, but not always, so I would enjoy much diverse crafting, and I guess that is a wish of many.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Nobody should be surprised Old Republic is tapping in the the childish essence for an audience generated by those who watch the cartoon Clone Wars on TV, the same audience you'll most likely find wow's simplicity appealing. This MMO will be as mainstream and as shallow as wow is, taking you a rail ride in a theme park. That type of MMO has it's audience, so the mature fans of Star Wars will be left a little disappointed and bound to make a little noise about it.
I wish they did this title as part 3 single player game, rather than trying to make it a MMO and shamelessly mould it on wow for their MMO design to poach subs, and in doing so,detaching it from the great single player games the first two were and turning it in to a mindless MMO that's not trying to bring anything new to the MMO genre other than full voice, what a pity they didn't go outside the box more and create something really fresh on a great on this IP. It's trying to hard to be a wow killer, instead of just becoming it's own game that caputures that x factor for success and have a bunch of players a month after lunch bored as they feel they've done it all before and are at end game.
Nobody should be surprised Old Republic is tapping in the the childish essence for an audience generated by those who watch the cartoon Clone Wars on TV, the same audience you'll most likely find wow's simplicity appealing. This MMO will be as mainstream and as shallow as wow is, taking you a rail ride in a theme park. That type of MMO has it's audience, so the mature fans of Star Wars will be left a little disappointed and bound to make a little noise about it.
I wish they did this title as part 3 single player game, rather than trying to make it a MMO and shamelessly mould it on wow for their MMO design to poach subs, and in doing so,detaching it from the great single player games the first two were and turning it in to a mindless MMO that's not trying to bring anything new to the MMO genre other than full voice, what a pity they didn't go outside the box more and create something really fresh on a great on this IP. It's trying to hard to be a wow killer, instead of just becoming it's own game that caputures that x factor for success and have a bunch of players a month after lunch bored as they feel they've done it all before and are at end game.
Noone should be suprised another poster is trying to make the game something other then what it is, it's sad this poster is trying to appeal to a gorup of people trying to tear down a potentionally very good game. I'm sure most of the posters on this thread will be disappointed by this post and make a little noise about it.
I wish they would have done some research instead of just saying whatever comes into their mind. But of course they don't want to try anything new and fresh to really capture the people and have an actual point instead they would rather bore people with whatever this was.
See? i can do it to, fun isn't it? yes that was total mockery cause thats what your trying to make this game out to be. We don't know what demographic this will be for, as that information hasn't been released. Will it be good? we don't know, but i'm not sure how you managed to come to this assumption. childish essence, cartoon clone wars clone (i guess i can use that term) i'm 29 and i love to buy and play this game. Wanna try again?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
i have to fully support this guy, they are makeing a starwars game that is in no way starwars. it is entirely kotor. and for me kotor only works on a console in a solo playable fashion, ive said it time and time again and even gone into extreme detail as to why kotor wont work as an online entity, but like he says the devs dont listen and stick with whats already out their. the game is in every sence wow in space. it looks the same.
companions will never work online, adding companions takes away the mm part away from the mmo and just leaves orpg. i started playing online games almost 10 years ago and only for the mmorpg aspect of online gameing. since then ive watched the mmorpg's become less and less as more where released, i feel the online gameing community is being poisoned by the console single player community.
online gameing should not be mixed up with console gameing ever, its destroying the better part of online game play.
swtor looks cheap and rushed, it has all the same concepts and aspects of every other game out their that we have ever ever played before. the only thing it has got going for it is that bioware claims its the biggest game they have ever made, they say its bigger than all their games put together. but we all know size isnt everything, its how you use it that counts.
the practical uses and imaginational uses based of game mechanics within swtor are seeming less and less as they release more and more, im finding it hard now as to why i was really excited about a new starwars online game. this looks more and more like wow, lets face it, thats all kotor online can ever be, it can only be another wow clone but with glow sticks and a futuristic setting.
i said at the top this game isnt starwars but is kotor, let me explain for the kids out there im 32 years old ive been raised with starwars, i only really took a keen interest in starwars around the age of 7-8 so you could say ive known about starwars for roughly 25 years or so. ive had all the comics magazines books and the orriginal 3 films that i still own on vhs. they are looking a bit tatty now and the film is a bit foggy and some parts flicker. since i was 7 ive always watched starwars and ive probably seen it hundreds of times. kotor on the other hand is the spawn of starwars, its a completely diffrent story and idea based of starwars, that being said, its not starwars.
starwars is about the struggle of good and evil in the galaxy, im not talking jedi and sith or republic and the empire because the jedi are sith and the republic is the empire. no!! im refering to the struggles that the charecters have to go through in the films, thats what starwars is about. starwars is set primarley in the entire galaxy which just so happens to be far far away. every single charecter in the game has some kind of struggle with light and dark. and the entire galaxy itself is having a bit of a hoo har. some like the empire some hate the empire and some dont really care.
take han-solo, that dude used to be an imperial, then he became a smuggler for many of the neutral charecters, and now hes a bloody rebel. talk aout struggle, that guy swore he was out for himself and his furry friend but found himself wanting for a better life better galaxy and so on.
starwars isnt about the force it isnt about the jedi and sith or the old republic. starwars is about starwars and how it was first created, changeing it now to support a market of younger fans that dont actually know the past of starwars can only be bad for the already established fan base.
and may i take this momment to point out that our era of starwars fandom probably wont die out for atleast another 90 years.
if its not brocken dont try to fix it. "ive always liked that saying"
so yea, if i get beta access to help test ill use that time to see if ill buy the game or not. but as it looks now i probably wont even try it until some one sends me a free 14 day trial code.
p.s. my heart goes out to all you lord of the rings online lifers, i bet you guys are blowing bubbles out your ears! (lotro =F2P - LOL) how much was a lifetime subscription for that game, i really do hope they reimburse you all some how.
oh one more thing, i see so so so many people banging on about how good this game is!!!. how the bloody hell do you know its a good game while its still in testing and still isnt complete ???? can some one please explain why swtor is a great game ? i would really like to know why its great.
simply saying cause bioware are makeing it is a childish answer. (bioware have never made an mmo before, and somply having people on the team that has doesnt mean they know what they are doing, at the end of the day bioware are in charge not the people they hired to develop the game, bioware decide what is and whats not and bioware lack the experience,trackrecord and success rate for an mmo. cryptic studios have been doing it for a long long time and they still cant get it right.)
and the only thing lucas arts is doing is story and content ideas and lore, they make sure the game looks sounds and feels starwarsy. how can you make a game that isnt starwars feel like starwars.
sorry if this rubs people up the wrong way, but i believe if your going to make anything starwars then it should look and feel like starwars. swtor is looking more and more like wow in space each week.
ok ill agree with one of your points painted in bright green, while starwars isnt about detailed indepth crafting, the whole concept behind mmorpg is infact virtual REALITY it was born from the virtual reality concept, the only reason detailed crafting isnt such a big thing is because the younger minds out weigh the needs of the older minds. there is nothing i like more at the end of a game online than knowing i can still indulge and have lots to learn about the game in terms of other mechanics like the market and trade system the economy the crafting the resource gathering the resource combineing and reprocessing.
these things add in biowares words a 5th pillar to any game. there is very few games out there that offer the player something to do when they have played the core of the game to death and into a state of mind i like to called boredom. simply being able to explore the depth of the game content and crafting enables the player a reason to keep paying and keep playing and meeting strange new people online.
i had more fun in swg at the end of the game than i ever did running quests and instances for loot drops. it was great fun because i could use my more creative side which isnt really that creative at all, but it wqas incredibly good fun.
just imagine custom made costumes, saturday night fever reinactments and men in hotpants doing line dancing all synchronised in some young unsuspecting ladies home in the middle of tatoine we had bands and a custom created stage for the show and we partied on all night long. but we did it in the all traditional starwars style. it was the very average life of the typical starwars universe civilian. and it was hilarious. oh yea and it was all in charecter too.
hell that was by far the most fun ive ever had in any game,.... well since ive ever been gameing, it was epic.
for those of you that dont know swg go try it, they still throw parties now check out the official websight for event notifications. parties are the best. lol
oh one more thing, i see so so so many people banging on about how good this game is!!!. how the bloody hell do you know its a good game while its still in testing and still isnt complete ???? can some one please explain why swtor is a great game ? i would really like to know why its great.
Eh? Have you seen the multitude of posts of people banging on about how bad SWTOR will be, or how it will be a singleplayer game, or a kids game, while its still in testing and incomplete??
And aren't you doing the same, making assumptions how SWTOR will be even when you haven't played it?
simply saying cause bioware are makeing it is a childish answer. (bioware have never made an mmo before, and somply having people on the team that has doesnt mean they know what they are doing, at the end of the day bioware are in charge not the people they hired to develop the game, bioware decide what is and whats not and bioware lack the experience,trackrecord and success rate for an mmo. cryptic studios have been doing it for a long long time and they still cant get it right.)
Let's face it, whether a MMO game will be a success or not has not that much to do with whether a game company has made a MMO before. Verant (EQ) and Blizzard were very successful firsttimers, while a Richard Garriot and Mythic Entertainment failed with their second MMO.
SW:TOR not being Star Wars? That's personal opinion. To me, the more and more I read and see about SWTOR, the more it starts to feel like Star Wars to me.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i had more fun in swg at the end of the game than i ever did running quests and instances for loot drops. it was great fun because i could use my more creative side which isnt really that creative at all, but it wqas incredibly good fun.
To me, this sounds like the main issue. To a lot of SWG vets, SW:TOR will never be satisfactory to them.
The reason is simple: their heart still belongs to SWG, and no matter how much Star Wars another MMO like SW:TOR will be, when it doesn't feel like a SWG or SWG2 to them, it will not feel right. because secretly they've been longing and will keep longing not so much for a Star Wars MMO, but far more specifically, for a renewed SWG or SWG2.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Most people believe it or not feel star wars is about good vs evil. Least that the general thought
On the note of character struggle. thats what the allgnement system is suppose to represent in their games, the idea that your character is struggling with the concept of good and evil while trying to save the galaxy so to speak. Whether the opinion of how good it was done is not relavent that was the point behind it.
Thats why you can be with the empire but do goodish things. it's your idea that while the empire may have the right idea, the execution might be wrong.
About your second post. We can do the same thing expect reverse the idea. How do the people who are banking on this game being bad know for certain it will be bad when the game isn't even out yet. It's not even in beta.
We the followers prefer to think bioware seeing as they know how to make games combined with the crew who know how to make MMO will join together and make a good game. I'd prefer to hold my pitchforks and stakes until i know for certain.
As for looking like WoW. thats an art style and not a flaw as you seem to deem it is, also while you see cartoon i see stylized graphics more akin to say something like AO or the like. All in the eyes of the beholder. Maybe this just isn't your art style and thats fine but saying a use of an art style that may at most be similar to another art style is a flaw is like trying to smash a square block into a round hole. Sure you might get the piece (your idea) in but your likely to break something in the process (trying to convince others your is right).
To me your coming off as someone who is just bewildered about how someone can like this game at all. You see a single player game online and are just scratching your head about how others could possibly conceive this otherwise. I'm not sure if your offended about how BW plays off the Star wars idea so much so that you can't see any good in it, or if you just followed SW so much you think that only LA or whatever can do it right.
What i see is the possibility to play one of the games i loved online with others and share my adventures with them at the same time. If the game is fun and feels like star wars (which as per the demo it does) then thats good enough for me. It doesn't have to fit exactly but if it's good enough for me, then i'll be playing it.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
im not saying i dont like it, but the way its going, its starting to look less and less apealing based of what i know about starwars already.
i love playign bioware games. all the best games ive played are created by bioware. im just not feeling bioware on there mmo adventure, it looks like they are copying. i very much prefer to bang sqaure pegs into round holes in attempt to create something new and revolutionary.
i think what im trying to say is all games today look feel and play the same and bioware are just simply hopping on the sae band wagon.
its a shame to see probably the best gae developer out there lower its standards to take the safe route in a competative games market online.
most people are fed up with the conventional game play that wow and every other title offers the community, i know i am, ive been playing online for a good 15 years or so if i count everything. and the two most stand out-ish games that have hooked me are eve-online (because no one can be the best and no one can reach end game and the game doesnt advertise end game or even have end game content. eve from start to finish is end game play and its the start of the game too. its fantastic and unique.. ) then you have swg, it something ive followed from a very very young age, and enjoyed thoroughly, then descovering i can actually play as a charecter in the very same galaxy the films where set in and act and be who ever i wanted to be in these settings was like wow. right from the very start in swg the game was fun, all that grinding i whined about early, was nothing. the game fealt like starwars sounded like stars and played as if i was in the starwars world. i met luke han-solo leiha chewwy jabba darth vader bobba, saw the sarlaac. owned many of the speeders i had an x-wing fighter a yt-2400 y-wing b-wing a-wng. it was the closest thing in a game i could find to anything starwars. forget your rogue sqaudron game. and those battlefront games and all the otehr starwars titles over the single player format.
swg was online it was as massively multiplayer as you can get, and even at max level and end game their was still something interesting to do that can capture the imagination.
sure and swg would be nice, but i dont think they can make an swg2 and still please the community, instead they needed a whole new starwars game.
when they announced swtor, it wasnt intially referred to as kotor online like it is now, instead they said it wasnt kotor 3 but would have some elements from kotor in it, now it seems its kotor online, they are even useing charecters and history and past from kotor to tell there story. its like new money for old rope.
im tired of playing with old rope. i was expecting swtor to be something new and revolutionary. not swg2 but better than both kotor and swg. that hs elements from both game types to make something that isnt out their yet.
but instead we get something that looks like wow with a kotor theme and a starwars skin. its very dissapointing. it looks like bioware have resorted to copying other peoples work.
i like the kotor games ive got them both, and ive always said they would be utterly rubbish in an mmo format, and thats what they are doing. kotor online. i really cant see it working myself.
i can imagine it will appeal the wow fans and a few of the younger gamers out there that havnt been spoiled by 15 years of online gameing like i have, maybe thats all it is, ive been playing all this time and im now getting fed up of seeing clone after clone after clone of other games that arnt really that great.
they should take eve - online mix it with swg in a lab somewhere and call it swo starwarsonline, it would be utterly massive in space with as much depth up their with the level of detail and depth planet side in swg. it would be truely epic and revolutionary and a brand new concept to online gameing.
but i guess im just dreaming and i shouldnt really hold high hopes.
i had more fun in swg at the end of the game than i ever did running quests and instances for loot drops. it was great fun because i could use my more creative side which isnt really that creative at all, but it wqas incredibly good fun.
To me, this sounds like the main issue. To a lot of SWG vets, SW:TOR will never be satisfactory to them.
The reason is simple: their heart still belongs to SWG, and no matter how much Star Wars another MMO like SW:TOR will be, when it doesn't feel like a SWG or SWG2 to them, it will not feel right. because secretly they've been longing and will keep longing not so much for a Star Wars MMO, but far more specifically, for a renewed SWG or SWG2.
i dont think an swg2 would cut it, its got to be something diffrent and bettter and deeper than swg. all swtor has thats diffrent from swg is its focus on story, story doesnt work so well in an mmo as it does in a single player title. and story allways has an ending, and i think you can agree that once you have no more story in a gam driven by stiry then their isnt a great deal more to do.
bioware have no information on their end game content. or as i like to call it after game content. nothing about crafting or markets or trade. if its as good as their space combat then they might as well just give up while their ahead. there space combat style died out in the 80's every one refers to starfox, all i can think of is panzer dragon. and afterburner. i may have the name wrong on panzer dragon
Discussing with people who say SWTOR is WoW in space is pointless. They are just trolling in the WoW-hater or SWG-lover disguise.
Hmm. a troll, i dont think i was trolling in the least, but i will add this little comment, i do think people should stop following blindly or being lead like sheep.
at the end of the day its your money they want. thats why they do this, its not so your happy its not so that you love them, its purely so they get rich from it. so they provide for the majority. and in this momment in time the majority game player is the wow lover.
people are happy with how wow plays so all games look and feel like wow. no one takes any time these days to explore other games to see whats out there, i know for a fact there is far far far better games than wow, ive played them.
but again thats personal oppinion, i like diffrent things. wow was ok but it doesnt deserve all the hype and the only reason its so successful is the collosal amount of advertiseing that was done to launch it. it stilladvertises heavly now.
it was also a cartoony novalty too. thats now wearing off, i see wow players wishing other games didnt look like wow. its really two sides of the same coin. it must mean something when wow lovers are tired of seeing games that resemble wow?
Discussing with people who say SWTOR is WoW in space is pointless. They are just trolling in the WoW-hater or SWG-lover disguise.
Hmm. a troll, i dont think i was trolling in the least, but i will add this little comment, i do think people should stop following blindly or being lead like sheep.
90% of your posts are based on a simple conclusion: WoW=stylised realism, SWTOR= stylised realism, therfore WoW=SWTOR. Before you start claiming that you know everything about MMO industry and SWTOR and WoW in particular you should at least play it. I assume you played WoW because you hate it like an addict, but don't make convenient assumptions about people who happen to disagree with you. I played WoW, I don't play it now because it is just boring. Calling me a WoW-fanboi is a fail and it just diminishes your arguments.
at the end of the day its your money they want. thats why they do this, its not so your happy its not so that you love them, its purely so they get rich from it. so they provide for the majority. and in this momment in time the majority game player is the wow lover.
so... are you some kind of a grown up idealist? when did you came up with such a brilliant realisation? did it took you 5 years of playing WoW maybe?
people are happy with how wow plays so all games look and feel like wow. no one takes any time these days to explore other games to see whats out there, i know for a fact there is far far far better games than wow, ive played them.
no dude, WoW is made this way because it copied old games and polished it's content. And they did it because this is how MMORPGs always worked. WoW did not invent any of it's features. Even stylised realism is not their invention. Tell me, were you born before 1990? If yes, then how can you post such ludicrous statment?
but again thats personal oppinion, i like diffrent things. wow was ok but it doesnt deserve all the hype and the only reason its so successful is the collosal amount of advertiseing that was done to launch it. it stilladvertises heavly now.
it was also a cartoony novalty too. thats now wearing off, i see wow players wishing other games didnt look like wow. its really two sides of the same coin. it must mean something when wow lovers are tired of seeing games that resemble wow?
So basically, if you played WoW for too long and got sick of it's stylised realism graphics then it's only your problem. I like SWTOR graphics very much, maybe because I didn't play WoW 16 hours per day for last 5 years. That all are personal opinions and preferences so you cant say SWTOR will fail because it's stylised realism makes all WoW players sick. Actually, they are in minority, because stylised realism graphics look very nice and unique, beside making system requirements lower.
Discussing with people who say SWTOR is WoW in space is pointless. They are just trolling in the WoW-hater or SWG-lover disguise.
Hmm. a troll, i dont think i was trolling in the least, but i will add this little comment, i do think people should stop following blindly or being lead like sheep.
at the end of the day its your money they want. thats why they do this, its not so your happy its not so that you love them, its purely so they get rich from it. so they provide for the majority. and in this momment in time the majority game player is the wow lover.
people are happy with how wow plays so all games look and feel like wow. no one takes any time these days to explore other games to see whats out there, i know for a fact there is far far far better games than wow, ive played them.
but again thats personal oppinion, i like diffrent things. wow was ok but it doesnt deserve all the hype and the only reason its so successful is the collosal amount of advertiseing that was done to launch it. it stilladvertises heavly now.
it was also a cartoony novalty too. thats now wearing off, i see wow players wishing other games didnt look like wow. its really two sides of the same coin. it must mean something when wow lovers are tired of seeing games that resemble wow?
The only thing one gains from love of what you do is a measure of respect that doesn't say anything for ones ability, and that's to ask you so what? What is inherently wrong with a person desiring to be the biggest company (make the most money) out there? Now if the caveat "while doing the least amount of work possible" was added that would make a difference but as your statement stands I can only ask so what? If they don't prioritize my fun factor into their equation as long as they do entertain me isn't that what is important?
I think alot of folks on these boards live in a dream world because all games play alike to me and when I say that I mean every single mmo on the market, if you've played one you can play them all. Will you be successful at them all probably not before getting a grasp on the rules but never the less the differences even between sandbox and themepark mmo's is an overating I have a hard time understanding.
When I played my first mmo it was second nature simply because of all of the video games I had played before and it stayed that way until this day with every mmo I've tried.
I have a hard time understanding why people take every single opportunity to throw WOW under the bus, I don't play it so it's a non factor in my life yet every time someone wants to degrade a game I have interest in they throw that in there like it has any relevance to my way of thinking or many of the people who frequent mmorpg. And you can't say you know for a fact there are better games than wow because there is no fact in that statement it is your opinion, one that I happen to share there are better games than WOW but that has little to do with fact.
What exactly is all the hype wow get's? It certainly does not get praise on fan sites, and if you have any experience with them ingeneral or mmorpg in particular you know this is true. So that leaves us the numbers that WOW releases as this "hype" you speak of, well that's what every company does they hype there good points and I assure you any game you liked that had the largest amount of subs would release that number and state that fact.
I can't say WOW was not advertised, I can't even say it wasn't advertised "heavily" but what I can say is I personally don't remember seeing alot of WOW commercials at launch (of course now it's every other commercial on every channel) and remember seeing just as many launch commercials for AOC.
Glad to get to that game because you seem to try to suggest that WOW is only successful because it advertised heavily, then what is the excuse for AOC? Heavily advertised so much so that they were breaking sales records at launch and where are they now? Point being made, WOW has to be able to attribute it's success to something else and not just the ads as you say.
At the end of the day graphics need to be acceptible but by and large as long as they are most people will settle for superior gameplay and that's where WOW wins I don't play WOW anymore but can certainly say when I did I played and enjoyed it could play a my own pace at any time and rarely had to worry about the game not working for whatever reason.
In conclusion you never mention SWTOR once in your post it has turned to pure anti WOW hate let's let SWTOR release and stand on it's own merits because no amount of data or conjecture will give any of you guys the ability to predict the future.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
Ok to the points I want to clarify.
2) They said "Darth Vader doesn't craft chairs" (or something like that); I don't want to be an iconic hero 24/7. It's ok to be heroic often, but not always, so I would enjoy much diverse crafting, and I guess that is a wish of many.
3) I love open space exactly for that reason: There isn't always something going on. I know, it must sound absurd to you. I loved Vanguard or SWG for the same reason: I loved just walking/riding through vast worlds. You know, what annoys the living hell out of me in games like LOTRO or EQ2 is: the ENTIRE darn world is crammed filled with mobs. A bear or boar EVERY 2 meters. It so gives me the feeling of being in some preset theme park. In nature, there are just not so much critters so evenly spread. Now while a game can't be all like real life, esp. LOTRO annoyed me like hell in this. Every inch is full with mobs, and the respawn rate is insidiously high. When a MMO is designed so that every part is only there for a function, it diminishes my feeling of a reality. Reality is a planet like in SWG, where large parts are just "there" and "empty". It gives me the feeling of reality, as contrary to worlds which feel artificial, when all is filled with mobs and "things to do." Same goes with space.
EDIT: I think Point 3 here is the focal point for me. The implementation of non essential things to make a world feel real: If you are unsure what I talk about, re read it.
4) Not my experience. I met many who RPed aliens very well.
6) Dunno what Entertaining could do, maybe give some buffs. LOTRO has music making; it does not serve any purpose, but it filled me with happyness, seeing some Music Band of players in some Tavern or some place. It just makes a place feel more alive. Again, its the addition of non functional things, of things not serving some gain or experience or purpose which make a game rich. Yes, I want *some* sandboxish elements. But I still want the story and quest too. I don't see why a game can't have both.
7) My guild's player city, North Beach from Starsider, was very active and visited. Player Cities need function to work, if you just give people houses and no function, they stay dead. I see most player cities in other games are just ghost towns, because the have no purpose. AoC player cities are also relatively well used, at least in my guild. And in AoC I never felt less heroic because I did simple chores like gathering wood or stone for our city. "For a great mind, no work is too small."
Really, maybe you tick different, but I feel relaxed doing simple tasks sometimes. Like gathering materials. It just soothes me when I am fatigued from hero combat.
Overall, I feel that the heroic NEEDS the normal as contrast, to stand out. And I need personally need a relaxation from hero business in my MMO. I feel SWTOR is going to be over-specialized, and again I need to play several MMOs to cover all my appetites. I would have preferred an approach less exclusively focussed on heroic story. Still with heroic story as the main focus, but less as the only focus. I still think a 150 million dollar budged should have that in store, at least to *some* degree.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I tried to touch on all your points, since you were kind enough to go into further detail.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I keep seeing posts like this about every game that's released and I can't help but thinking that there are so many people who just want to bitch about games- both released and unreleased. It seems that the games that they like are the ones who don't do very well and that is because they like a certain style of play. This isn't even about the sandbox vs. themepark argument, it's more that these people like "indie" games because they are indie. They probably like music that no one else likes because it's hip to like that music and they probably like movies like that because they're different and not part of the main-stream as well.
Mainstream is mainstream because it is the most popular in a category. Games like WoW, EQ, LOTRO, DDO, etc. etc aren't popular because they are boring to play. They are popular because they are fun to the masses. I find that most sandboxes require lots and lots of tedium and "imagination" to play. I pay $15 a month to be entertained- to unwind from my high-pressure job and life- not to add to it.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
So what...you're saying that back when they were making classical music that the industry wasn't profit-driven? Wow.
I'd respond more, but I must sleep.
Yes, yes he was. I could go all nerdspastic and point out he built C3P0, a pod racer, and worked as an engineer as a slave for a good part of his childhood but that would make me look like a turbo FanBoi. Wait...
There was also evidence that he was a fixer upper as he started to fall to the dark side...
There I go again...
I'm hopeless.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Most early classical music was written for churches and other religious aspects.
They were not expecting large amounts of money in return.
If I recall, Beethoven was quite the poor man during the end of his life.
Some did make money and become famous, but even that is incomparable to stars today. I would say the closest thing in this age would be indie groups.
2) They said "Darth Vader doesn't craft chairs" (or something like that); I don't want to be an iconic hero 24/7. It's ok to be heroic often, but not always, so I would enjoy much diverse crafting, and I guess that is a wish of many.
Yes he does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0rN-KG0zNw
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Nobody should be surprised Old Republic is tapping in the the childish essence for an audience generated by those who watch the cartoon Clone Wars on TV, the same audience you'll most likely find wow's simplicity appealing. This MMO will be as mainstream and as shallow as wow is, taking you a rail ride in a theme park. That type of MMO has it's audience, so the mature fans of Star Wars will be left a little disappointed and bound to make a little noise about it.
I wish they did this title as part 3 single player game, rather than trying to make it a MMO and shamelessly mould it on wow for their MMO design to poach subs, and in doing so,detaching it from the great single player games the first two were and turning it in to a mindless MMO that's not trying to bring anything new to the MMO genre other than full voice, what a pity they didn't go outside the box more and create something really fresh on a great on this IP. It's trying to hard to be a wow killer, instead of just becoming it's own game that caputures that x factor for success and have a bunch of players a month after lunch bored as they feel they've done it all before and are at end game.
Noone should be suprised another poster is trying to make the game something other then what it is, it's sad this poster is trying to appeal to a gorup of people trying to tear down a potentionally very good game. I'm sure most of the posters on this thread will be disappointed by this post and make a little noise about it.
I wish they would have done some research instead of just saying whatever comes into their mind. But of course they don't want to try anything new and fresh to really capture the people and have an actual point instead they would rather bore people with whatever this was.
See? i can do it to, fun isn't it? yes that was total mockery cause thats what your trying to make this game out to be. We don't know what demographic this will be for, as that information hasn't been released. Will it be good? we don't know, but i'm not sure how you managed to come to this assumption. childish essence, cartoon clone wars clone (i guess i can use that term) i'm 29 and i love to buy and play this game. Wanna try again?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
i have to fully support this guy, they are makeing a starwars game that is in no way starwars. it is entirely kotor. and for me kotor only works on a console in a solo playable fashion, ive said it time and time again and even gone into extreme detail as to why kotor wont work as an online entity, but like he says the devs dont listen and stick with whats already out their. the game is in every sence wow in space. it looks the same.
companions will never work online, adding companions takes away the mm part away from the mmo and just leaves orpg. i started playing online games almost 10 years ago and only for the mmorpg aspect of online gameing. since then ive watched the mmorpg's become less and less as more where released, i feel the online gameing community is being poisoned by the console single player community.
online gameing should not be mixed up with console gameing ever, its destroying the better part of online game play.
swtor looks cheap and rushed, it has all the same concepts and aspects of every other game out their that we have ever ever played before. the only thing it has got going for it is that bioware claims its the biggest game they have ever made, they say its bigger than all their games put together. but we all know size isnt everything, its how you use it that counts.
the practical uses and imaginational uses based of game mechanics within swtor are seeming less and less as they release more and more, im finding it hard now as to why i was really excited about a new starwars online game. this looks more and more like wow, lets face it, thats all kotor online can ever be, it can only be another wow clone but with glow sticks and a futuristic setting.
i said at the top this game isnt starwars but is kotor, let me explain for the kids out there
im 32 years old ive been raised with starwars, i only really took a keen interest in starwars around the age of 7-8 so you could say ive known about starwars for roughly 25 years or so. ive had all the comics magazines books and the orriginal 3 films that i still own on vhs. they are looking a bit tatty now and the film is a bit foggy and some parts flicker. since i was 7 ive always watched starwars and ive probably seen it hundreds of times. kotor on the other hand is the spawn of starwars, its a completely diffrent story and idea based of starwars, that being said, its not starwars.
starwars is about the struggle of good and evil in the galaxy, im not talking jedi and sith or republic and the empire because the jedi are sith and the republic is the empire. no!! im refering to the struggles that the charecters have to go through in the films, thats what starwars is about. starwars is set primarley in the entire galaxy which just so happens to be far far away. every single charecter in the game has some kind of struggle with light and dark. and the entire galaxy itself is having a bit of a hoo har. some like the empire some hate the empire and some dont really care.
take han-solo, that dude used to be an imperial, then he became a smuggler for many of the neutral charecters, and now hes a bloody rebel. talk aout struggle, that guy swore he was out for himself and his furry friend but found himself wanting for a better life better galaxy and so on.
starwars isnt about the force it isnt about the jedi and sith or the old republic. starwars is about starwars and how it was first created, changeing it now to support a market of younger fans that dont actually know the past of starwars can only be bad for the already established fan base.
and may i take this momment to point out that our era of starwars fandom probably wont die out for atleast another 90 years.
if its not brocken dont try to fix it. "ive always liked that saying"
so yea, if i get beta access to help test ill use that time to see if ill buy the game or not. but as it looks now i probably wont even try it until some one sends me a free 14 day trial code.
p.s. my heart goes out to all you lord of the rings online lifers, i bet you guys are blowing bubbles out your ears! (lotro =F2P - LOL) how much was a lifetime subscription for that game, i really do hope they reimburse you all some how.
oh one more thing, i see so so so many people banging on about how good this game is!!!. how the bloody hell do you know its a good game while its still in testing and still isnt complete ???? can some one please explain why swtor is a great game ? i would really like to know why its great.
simply saying cause bioware are makeing it is a childish answer. (bioware have never made an mmo before, and somply having people on the team that has doesnt mean they know what they are doing, at the end of the day bioware are in charge not the people they hired to develop the game, bioware decide what is and whats not and bioware lack the experience,trackrecord and success rate for an mmo. cryptic studios have been doing it for a long long time and they still cant get it right.)
and the only thing lucas arts is doing is story and content ideas and lore, they make sure the game looks sounds and feels starwarsy. how can you make a game that isnt starwars feel like starwars.
sorry if this rubs people up the wrong way, but i believe if your going to make anything starwars then it should look and feel like starwars. swtor is looking more and more like wow in space each week.
ok ill agree with one of your points painted in bright green, while starwars isnt about detailed indepth crafting, the whole concept behind mmorpg is infact virtual REALITY it was born from the virtual reality concept, the only reason detailed crafting isnt such a big thing is because the younger minds out weigh the needs of the older minds. there is nothing i like more at the end of a game online than knowing i can still indulge and have lots to learn about the game in terms of other mechanics like the market and trade system the economy the crafting the resource gathering the resource combineing and reprocessing.
these things add in biowares words a 5th pillar to any game. there is very few games out there that offer the player something to do when they have played the core of the game to death and into a state of mind i like to called boredom. simply being able to explore the depth of the game content and crafting enables the player a reason to keep paying and keep playing and meeting strange new people online.
i had more fun in swg at the end of the game than i ever did running quests and instances for loot drops. it was great fun because i could use my more creative side which isnt really that creative at all, but it wqas incredibly good fun.
just imagine custom made costumes, saturday night fever reinactments and men in hotpants doing line dancing all synchronised in some young unsuspecting ladies home in the middle of tatoine we had bands and a custom created stage for the show and we partied on all night long. but we did it in the all traditional starwars style. it was the very average life of the typical starwars universe civilian. and it was hilarious. oh yea and it was all in charecter too.
hell that was by far the most fun ive ever had in any game,.... well since ive ever been gameing, it was epic.
for those of you that dont know swg go try it, they still throw parties now check out the official websight for event notifications. parties are the best. lol
Let's face it, whether a MMO game will be a success or not has not that much to do with whether a game company has made a MMO before. Verant (EQ) and Blizzard were very successful firsttimers, while a Richard Garriot and Mythic Entertainment failed with their second MMO.
SW:TOR not being Star Wars? That's personal opinion. To me, the more and more I read and see about SWTOR, the more it starts to feel like Star Wars to me.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
To me, this sounds like the main issue. To a lot of SWG vets, SW:TOR will never be satisfactory to them.
The reason is simple: their heart still belongs to SWG, and no matter how much Star Wars another MMO like SW:TOR will be, when it doesn't feel like a SWG or SWG2 to them, it will not feel right. because secretly they've been longing and will keep longing not so much for a Star Wars MMO, but far more specifically, for a renewed SWG or SWG2.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Most people believe it or not feel star wars is about good vs evil. Least that the general thought
On the note of character struggle. thats what the allgnement system is suppose to represent in their games, the idea that your character is struggling with the concept of good and evil while trying to save the galaxy so to speak. Whether the opinion of how good it was done is not relavent that was the point behind it.
Thats why you can be with the empire but do goodish things. it's your idea that while the empire may have the right idea, the execution might be wrong.
About your second post. We can do the same thing expect reverse the idea. How do the people who are banking on this game being bad know for certain it will be bad when the game isn't even out yet. It's not even in beta.
We the followers prefer to think bioware seeing as they know how to make games combined with the crew who know how to make MMO will join together and make a good game. I'd prefer to hold my pitchforks and stakes until i know for certain.
As for looking like WoW. thats an art style and not a flaw as you seem to deem it is, also while you see cartoon i see stylized graphics more akin to say something like AO or the like. All in the eyes of the beholder. Maybe this just isn't your art style and thats fine but saying a use of an art style that may at most be similar to another art style is a flaw is like trying to smash a square block into a round hole. Sure you might get the piece (your idea) in but your likely to break something in the process (trying to convince others your is right).
To me your coming off as someone who is just bewildered about how someone can like this game at all. You see a single player game online and are just scratching your head about how others could possibly conceive this otherwise. I'm not sure if your offended about how BW plays off the Star wars idea so much so that you can't see any good in it, or if you just followed SW so much you think that only LA or whatever can do it right.
What i see is the possibility to play one of the games i loved online with others and share my adventures with them at the same time. If the game is fun and feels like star wars (which as per the demo it does) then thats good enough for me. It doesn't have to fit exactly but if it's good enough for me, then i'll be playing it.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
im not saying i dont like it, but the way its going, its starting to look less and less apealing based of what i know about starwars already.
i love playign bioware games. all the best games ive played are created by bioware. im just not feeling bioware on there mmo adventure, it looks like they are copying. i very much prefer to bang sqaure pegs into round holes in attempt to create something new and revolutionary.
i think what im trying to say is all games today look feel and play the same and bioware are just simply hopping on the sae band wagon.
its a shame to see probably the best gae developer out there lower its standards to take the safe route in a competative games market online.
most people are fed up with the conventional game play that wow and every other title offers the community, i know i am, ive been playing online for a good 15 years or so if i count everything. and the two most stand out-ish games that have hooked me are eve-online (because no one can be the best and no one can reach end game and the game doesnt advertise end game or even have end game content. eve from start to finish is end game play and its the start of the game too. its fantastic and unique.. ) then you have swg, it something ive followed from a very very young age, and enjoyed thoroughly, then descovering i can actually play as a charecter in the very same galaxy the films where set in and act and be who ever i wanted to be in these settings was like wow. right from the very start in swg the game was fun, all that grinding i whined about early, was nothing. the game fealt like starwars sounded like stars and played as if i was in the starwars world. i met luke han-solo leiha chewwy jabba darth vader bobba, saw the sarlaac. owned many of the speeders i had an x-wing fighter a yt-2400 y-wing b-wing a-wng. it was the closest thing in a game i could find to anything starwars. forget your rogue sqaudron game. and those battlefront games and all the otehr starwars titles over the single player format.
swg was online it was as massively multiplayer as you can get, and even at max level and end game their was still something interesting to do that can capture the imagination.
sure and swg would be nice, but i dont think they can make an swg2 and still please the community, instead they needed a whole new starwars game.
when they announced swtor, it wasnt intially referred to as kotor online like it is now, instead they said it wasnt kotor 3 but would have some elements from kotor in it, now it seems its kotor online, they are even useing charecters and history and past from kotor to tell there story. its like new money for old rope.
im tired of playing with old rope. i was expecting swtor to be something new and revolutionary. not swg2 but better than both kotor and swg. that hs elements from both game types to make something that isnt out their yet.
but instead we get something that looks like wow with a kotor theme and a starwars skin. its very dissapointing. it looks like bioware have resorted to copying other peoples work.
i like the kotor games ive got them both, and ive always said they would be utterly rubbish in an mmo format, and thats what they are doing. kotor online. i really cant see it working myself.
i can imagine it will appeal the wow fans and a few of the younger gamers out there that havnt been spoiled by 15 years of online gameing like i have, maybe thats all it is, ive been playing all this time and im now getting fed up of seeing clone after clone after clone of other games that arnt really that great.
they should take eve - online mix it with swg in a lab somewhere and call it swo starwarsonline, it would be utterly massive in space with as much depth up their with the level of detail and depth planet side in swg. it would be truely epic and revolutionary and a brand new concept to online gameing.
but i guess im just dreaming and i shouldnt really hold high hopes.
i dont think an swg2 would cut it, its got to be something diffrent and bettter and deeper than swg. all swtor has thats diffrent from swg is its focus on story, story doesnt work so well in an mmo as it does in a single player title. and story allways has an ending, and i think you can agree that once you have no more story in a gam driven by stiry then their isnt a great deal more to do.
bioware have no information on their end game content. or as i like to call it after game content. nothing about crafting or markets or trade. if its as good as their space combat then they might as well just give up while their ahead. there space combat style died out in the 80's every one refers to starfox, all i can think of is panzer dragon. and afterburner. i may have the name wrong on panzer dragon
Discussing with people who say SWTOR is WoW in space is pointless. They are just trolling in the WoW-hater or SWG-lover disguise.
Hmm. a troll, i dont think i was trolling in the least, but i will add this little comment, i do think people should stop following blindly or being lead like sheep.
at the end of the day its your money they want. thats why they do this, its not so your happy its not so that you love them, its purely so they get rich from it. so they provide for the majority. and in this momment in time the majority game player is the wow lover.
people are happy with how wow plays so all games look and feel like wow. no one takes any time these days to explore other games to see whats out there, i know for a fact there is far far far better games than wow, ive played them.
but again thats personal oppinion, i like diffrent things. wow was ok but it doesnt deserve all the hype and the only reason its so successful is the collosal amount of advertiseing that was done to launch it. it stilladvertises heavly now.
it was also a cartoony novalty too. thats now wearing off, i see wow players wishing other games didnt look like wow. its really two sides of the same coin. it must mean something when wow lovers are tired of seeing games that resemble wow?
What ever dribble the op put in his post, I'll probably see him in SWTOR when its released along with all the other haters.
So basically, if you played WoW for too long and got sick of it's stylised realism graphics then it's only your problem. I like SWTOR graphics very much, maybe because I didn't play WoW 16 hours per day for last 5 years. That all are personal opinions and preferences so you cant say SWTOR will fail because it's stylised realism makes all WoW players sick. Actually, they are in minority, because stylised realism graphics look very nice and unique, beside making system requirements lower.
The only thing one gains from love of what you do is a measure of respect that doesn't say anything for ones ability, and that's to ask you so what? What is inherently wrong with a person desiring to be the biggest company (make the most money) out there? Now if the caveat "while doing the least amount of work possible" was added that would make a difference but as your statement stands I can only ask so what? If they don't prioritize my fun factor into their equation as long as they do entertain me isn't that what is important?
I think alot of folks on these boards live in a dream world because all games play alike to me and when I say that I mean every single mmo on the market, if you've played one you can play them all. Will you be successful at them all probably not before getting a grasp on the rules but never the less the differences even between sandbox and themepark mmo's is an overating I have a hard time understanding.
When I played my first mmo it was second nature simply because of all of the video games I had played before and it stayed that way until this day with every mmo I've tried.
I have a hard time understanding why people take every single opportunity to throw WOW under the bus, I don't play it so it's a non factor in my life yet every time someone wants to degrade a game I have interest in they throw that in there like it has any relevance to my way of thinking or many of the people who frequent mmorpg. And you can't say you know for a fact there are better games than wow because there is no fact in that statement it is your opinion, one that I happen to share there are better games than WOW but that has little to do with fact.
What exactly is all the hype wow get's? It certainly does not get praise on fan sites, and if you have any experience with them ingeneral or mmorpg in particular you know this is true. So that leaves us the numbers that WOW releases as this "hype" you speak of, well that's what every company does they hype there good points and I assure you any game you liked that had the largest amount of subs would release that number and state that fact.
I can't say WOW was not advertised, I can't even say it wasn't advertised "heavily" but what I can say is I personally don't remember seeing alot of WOW commercials at launch (of course now it's every other commercial on every channel) and remember seeing just as many launch commercials for AOC.
Glad to get to that game because you seem to try to suggest that WOW is only successful because it advertised heavily, then what is the excuse for AOC? Heavily advertised so much so that they were breaking sales records at launch and where are they now? Point being made, WOW has to be able to attribute it's success to something else and not just the ads as you say.
At the end of the day graphics need to be acceptible but by and large as long as they are most people will settle for superior gameplay and that's where WOW wins I don't play WOW anymore but can certainly say when I did I played and enjoyed it could play a my own pace at any time and rarely had to worry about the game not working for whatever reason.
In conclusion you never mention SWTOR once in your post it has turned to pure anti WOW hate let's let SWTOR release and stand on it's own merits because no amount of data or conjecture will give any of you guys the ability to predict the future.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
lol, probably yes