Endgame is always a problem for devs to keep up with. Though some try while Turbine simply lets the game stagnate to a point that it has to go F2P to keep from shutting down the servers. EQ2 has numerous xpacs that add to endgame, WOW while not fast my any means does add content on a regular basis. So your remedy is just keep rollig alts until turbine decideds to give the capped players something? Isnt that something even a 14 year old would find boring after awhile?
I'll agree that Turbine had times where the high level players did not have new content but their move to f2p is more about making more money then shutting down servers.
Especially because they are now owned by a publically traded company.
I have no doubt that the success of DDO and the acquistion by Warner Brothers played a hand in the recent f2p move.
How much money turbine may make with this doesnt change the fact that endgame is pretty much been stalled for the last year. Ive stated before the F2P move was really a favor to me for without it I may well have been continueing to pay and wait on content that hasnt come.
But "end game" for LOTRO has never been this huge robust thing. At least from my experience, though I'm not a raider.
Heck, I cancelled my account for a few months prior to moria because there was nothing that really interested me.
I don't believe the end game of shadows of angmar was any more robust than what we have now.
What it comes down to in my estimation is that there is no such thing as "end game" and it's more about players either finding something to do once they have gone through available content (essentially enjoying things they thing can be repeated) or taking a break before the next round of content comes around.
I suppose that brings us around for the original discussion on end game.
Good post with a relevant point, I've never been the type of player to race to end game because as you say it is pretty much where you as a player are relegated to a few tasks especially being raids, and I for one enjoy the journey to that "end game" much more than the time there. People who often say "the game doesn't start til end game" are just the folks who as we all know exist in mmo's have a strong desire to have the best the game has to offer and I have never played that way and never will.
I played LOTRO til right before Mirkwood and at the time I had two level 60 toons and I did not raid with a single one of them, since resubbing I'vem oved back to my old server with much younger toons a few in the level fifty range so I can't say exactly what is at the end game but I doubt it is anything that you would not have seen in earlier stages.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
you missed 2, Warg pens and The Dungeon and a new 12 man raid is coming soon. I totally agree with you though Turbine killed it with Mirkwood and made the awesome end game in Moria obsolete. My only hope is Turbine can repeat the success they had with Moria with Isengard.....if that fails I will be done and waiting on GW2.
All of the awesomeness of the Moria endgame is stil available in the classic instance system, in fact it is even more accessable. My kin seems to be obsessed with the Great Barrows content at the mostly but we plan on revisiting all of our old favorites in time. The School has been seeing a lot of action from the 65's also. One of my faves was Anumias, I want to get a group together for it this weekend just to see how they reworked it.
Yeah my kin has been running the classis a lot. The library and school I've run alot it seems to be the easiest way to get superior marks. My kin(Guardians of Gondor Arkenstone) is staying pretty active though running two 12 mans a week doing a lot of farming in the classic instances. It's all what you make of it I'm still enjoying the game.
So you did not provide any example of a smaller payed expansion in any MMO. I have asked exactly that in may different forums, and nobody has ever been able to answer. I honestly think that Mirkwood is, most probably, the smallest payed expansion in the history of MMOs.
You mention that Lotro is not a raid-centric game. And I agree. However, I thought we were talking about end-game. Let me check the thread title again... aha! Yeah, it says exactly that, end-game. Ok, now, if raids are not end-game in a PVE-centric theme-park with a very simplistic crafting system, like Lotro... what the hell is end-game in a game like that then?
Anyway, so let's ignore raids, and talk about smaller instances. Going back to the examples I have used:
WoW: You can level all the way from 10 to 80 doing instances and only instances and nothing more than instances. Can you do that in Lotro?
And that's a good thing why? Having a ton of instances is not a good thing if they mostly suck. I like the open world feel of the zones in LOTRO and it's why I'm playing it instead of WoW.
Vanguard: The amount of dungeons is so insane that players ended up asking for a togle to NOT get experience becouse they were outleveling most of them by playing normally and they were missing content on level. Do you need that in Lotro?
I haven't played Vanguard since the beta (which was terrible) so I don't know what they classify as dungeons but while I was levelling up through LOTRO I had many times where I had to skip things due to either not having enough players to do them or just outlevelling them too quick. This is why I love the fact that they are converting the classic instances to scale with level. Unless you've been a hardcore subscriber in an active kin since launch you HAVE missed most of the previous endgame instances and raids.
And, by the way, both games have a world that is bigger than Lotro.
Maybe right now but the world of LOTRO is only about 33% complete at this point. Let's check back once they hit Mordor shall we.
Why do you think the radiance gating and the LI grind were introduced? Do you think they actually add any fun to the game? Maybe they are just clumsy attempts to mask lack of content? Do you honestly think they serve any purpose other than beeing a time sink?
No I think they are both poor design decisions that were made due to lack of development time and resources and hopefully they will revamp them or remove them as necessary as they have hinted at doing during F2P development.
So you did not provide any example of a smaller payed expansion in any MMO. I have asked exactly that in may different forums, and nobody has ever been able to answer. I honestly think that Mirkwood is, most probably, the smallest payed expansion in the history of MMOs.
You mention that Lotro is not a raid-centric game. And I agree. However, I thought we were talking about end-game. Let me check the thread title again... aha! Yeah, it says exactly that, end-game. Ok, now, if raids are not end-game in a PVE-centric theme-park with a very simplistic crafting system, like Lotro... what the hell is end-game in a game like that then?
Anyway, so let's ignore raids, and talk about smaller instances. Going back to the examples I have used:
WoW: You can level all the way from 10 to 80 doing instances and only instances and nothing more than instances. Can you do that in Lotro?
And that's a good thing why? Having a ton of instances is not a good thing if they mostly suck. I like the open world feel of the zones in LOTRO and it's why I'm playing it instead of WoW.
Vanguard: The amount of dungeons is so insane that players ended up asking for a togle to NOT get experience becouse they were outleveling most of them by playing normally and they were missing content on level. Do you need that in Lotro?
I haven't played Vanguard since the beta (which was terrible) so I don't know what they classify as dungeons but while I was levelling up through LOTRO I had many times where I had to skip things due to either not having enough players to do them or just outlevelling them too quick. This is why I love the fact that they are converting the classic instances to scale with level. Unless you've been a hardcore subscriber in an active kin since launch you HAVE missed most of the previous endgame instances and raids.
And, by the way, both games have a world that is bigger than Lotro.
Maybe right now but the world of LOTRO is only about 33% complete at this point. Let's check back once they hit Mordor shall we.
Why do you think the radiance gating and the LI grind were introduced? Do you think they actually add any fun to the game? Maybe they are just clumsy attempts to mask lack of content? Do you honestly think they serve any purpose other than beeing a time sink?
No I think they are both poor design decisions that were made due to lack of development time and resources and hopefully they will revamp them or remove them as necessary as they have hinted at doing during F2P development.
Radiance is being removed and LI's (which I love!) Turbine is still deciding if they will remove them.
So you did not provide any example of a smaller payed expansion in any MMO. I have asked exactly that in may different forums, and nobody has ever been able to answer. I honestly think that Mirkwood is, most probably, the smallest payed expansion in the history of MMOs.
You mention that Lotro is not a raid-centric game. And I agree. However, I thought we were talking about end-game. Let me check the thread title again... aha! Yeah, it says exactly that, end-game. Ok, now, if raids are not end-game in a PVE-centric theme-park with a very simplistic crafting system, like Lotro... what the hell is end-game in a game like that then?
Anyway, so let's ignore raids, and talk about smaller instances. Going back to the examples I have used:
WoW: You can level all the way from 10 to 80 doing instances and only instances and nothing more than instances. Can you do that in Lotro?
And that's a good thing why? Having a ton of instances is not a good thing if they mostly suck. I like the open world feel of the zones in LOTRO and it's why I'm playing it instead of WoW.
What is a good thing is that you can also choose to never ever get into any instance until you get to 80. You have enough content to choose. And, really, how does a tiny and segmented area like Mirkwood make up a "open world feel". That is the point I have been trying to get across all the time. SoA and SoM are different stories.
Vanguard: The amount of dungeons is so insane that players ended up asking for a togle to NOT get experience becouse they were outleveling most of them by playing normally and they were missing content on level. Do you need that in Lotro?
I haven't played Vanguard since the beta (which was terrible) so I don't know what they classify as dungeons but while I was levelling up through LOTRO I had many times where I had to skip things due to either not having enough players to do them or just outlevelling them too quick. This is why I love the fact that they are converting the classic instances to scale with level. Unless you've been a hardcore subscriber in an active kin since launch you HAVE missed most of the previous endgame instances and raids.
APW, 34 24-man raid bosses, just the example I mentioned earlier, yeah, I think that qualifies as a dungeon. Trust me, the average Vanguard dungeon is bigger than old CD.
And, by the way, both games have a world that is bigger than Lotro.
Maybe right now but the world of LOTRO is only about 33% complete at this point. Let's check back once they hit Mordor shall we.
If you wanna especulate that way with what may or may not come, let me remind you that in WoW there are several planets. Orcs and Draenei come from another world. Still, considering the pace at which Turbine is releasing content... You can't seriously expect Middle Earth to get bigger than Azeroth. That is the point.
Why do you think the radiance gating and the LI grind were introduced? Do you think they actually add any fun to the game? Maybe they are just clumsy attempts to mask lack of content? Do you honestly think they serve any purpose other than beeing a time sink?
No I think they are both poor design decisions that were made due to lack of development time and resources and hopefully they will revamp them or remove them as necessary as they have hinted at doing during F2P development.
Radiance is being removed and LI's (which I love!) Turbine is still deciding if they will remove them.
Is there a post somewhere where they metnion removign Legendary Items? that would be interesting.
not that I am aware of, I saw earlier where someone had posted that but I cannot find a dev reference on the official forums anywhere and during the last Dev chat nothing was mentioned. Also a lot of other info in there as far as to what to expect during the coming year.
<~DelmarWynn> Honvik: Question: What enhancements are turbine looking at adding for radiance/LI’s?
<@Jalessa>; We took Radiance outside, tied it up to some railroad tracks, and…well…I think you saw the end of this in Red Dead Redemption. Look for this in the future – we will be removing Radiance from LOTR
Just my opinion but I love legendaries, soert of anotehr sideways advancement systema nd allows me to tweak my gear to my play style. Sure beatsd the hell out of runing XXXX raid 50 dozen times hoping for the Really Rare Sword of Minstrel Uberness to drop like other mMO s do their endgame weapons. Just get a crafter to make you a nice 2nd age reforge and tweak it in with Runes, scrolls etc
Just my opinion but I love legendaries, soert of anotehr sideways advancement systema nd allows me to tweak my gear to my play style. Sure beatsd the hell out of runing XXXX raid 50 dozen times hoping for the Really Rare Sword of Minstrel Uberness to drop like other mMO s do their endgame weapons. Just get a crafter to make you a nice 2nd age reforge and tweak it in with Runes, scrolls etc
Yeah, instead you run SG 50 dozen times hoping for a symbol so you can give it to a crafter. Maybe if you are lucky the crafted result has proper legacies. If not, you can keep farming SG 50 dozen times more, hoping for a new symbol, until you finally get... Your Really Rare Second Age Sword of Minstrel Uberness!
Aye, now you can start grinding the relics ^^
Sorry, I fail to see how does that beat the hell out of running XXXX raid 50 dozen times etc etc etc.
Now you made me remember that period when a friend of mine had the best pistol in our SWG server. Know what? It was crafted. Good old times, when crafting actually mattered and was challenging and was a part of what we called end-game by its own rights.
This thread has convinced me to get back into LotRO.... I loved WoW but what I realized is that I hated Raiding, I would level a character to 80 get some gear from dungeons, start raiding, and quit. I think LotRO is what I am looking for, more thing to do while I level, and even when I hit the level cap. NOT have to be required to raid or reroll.
This looks good, thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread
So you did not provide any example of a smaller payed expansion in any MMO. I have asked exactly that in may different forums, and nobody has ever been able to answer. I honestly think that Mirkwood is, most probably, the smallest payed expansion in the history of MMOs.
You mention that Lotro is not a raid-centric game. And I agree. However, I thought we were talking about end-game. Let me check the thread title again... aha! Yeah, it says exactly that, end-game. Ok, now, if raids are not end-game in a PVE-centric theme-park with a very simplistic crafting system, like Lotro... what the hell is end-game in a game like that then?
Anyway, so let's ignore raids, and talk about smaller instances. Going back to the examples I have used:
WoW: You can level all the way from 10 to 80 doing instances and only instances and nothing more than instances. Can you do that in Lotro?
And that's a good thing why? Having a ton of instances is not a good thing if they mostly suck. I like the open world feel of the zones in LOTRO and it's why I'm playing it instead of WoW.
What is a good thing is that you can also choose to never ever get into any instance until you get to 80. You have enough content to choose. And, really, how does a tiny and segmented area like Mirkwood make up a "open world feel". That is the point I have been trying to get across all the time. SoA and SoM are different stories.
Vanguard: The amount of dungeons is so insane that players ended up asking for a togle to NOT get experience becouse they were outleveling most of them by playing normally and they were missing content on level. Do you need that in Lotro?
I haven't played Vanguard since the beta (which was terrible) so I don't know what they classify as dungeons but while I was levelling up through LOTRO I had many times where I had to skip things due to either not having enough players to do them or just outlevelling them too quick. This is why I love the fact that they are converting the classic instances to scale with level. Unless you've been a hardcore subscriber in an active kin since launch you HAVE missed most of the previous endgame instances and raids.
APW, 34 24-man raid bosses, just the example I mentioned earlier, yeah, I think that qualifies as a dungeon. Trust me, the average Vanguard dungeon is bigger than old CD.
And, by the way, both games have a world that is bigger than Lotro.
Maybe right now but the world of LOTRO is only about 33% complete at this point. Let's check back once they hit Mordor shall we.
If you wanna especulate that way with what may or may not come, let me remind you that in WoW there are several planets. Orcs and Draenei come from another world. Still, considering the pace at which Turbine is releasing content... You can't seriously expect Middle Earth to get bigger than Azeroth. That is the point.
Why do you think the radiance gating and the LI grind were introduced? Do you think they actually add any fun to the game? Maybe they are just clumsy attempts to mask lack of content? Do you honestly think they serve any purpose other than beeing a time sink?
No I think they are both poor design decisions that were made due to lack of development time and resources and hopefully they will revamp them or remove them as necessary as they have hinted at doing during F2P development.
I didn't join an active kin till I was almost 65 and spent absolutely no time in raids and very little time in instances save the epic quests. It is rediculously easy to hit max level in LOTRO without hitting an instance and without having to just grind mobs. Hell I ended up dropping dozens of quests that I outleveled along the way and I still haven't finished all moria areas fully or even 3/4 of mirkwood and I've been 65 for ages. Honestly the raiding aspect of the game is such a minor aspect I'm perfectly fine if they don't release a new raid with every new as they are usually mindnumbingly boring anyways.
I only re-subbed to Lotro because I wanted to socialize in a better environment. The roleplaying community in Lotro is king to anything else I've ever played. Like myself, many people seem to enjoy just socializing and taking it easy, smoking pipes and playing music, so I'm enjoying myself in that regard.
Lotro is pretty casual, and the direction seems to be more on "grind fast, get to end", with hand-holding quests along the way. The challenge is limited, but the difficulty is still there if you seek it. I for one, turn off the "quest guide/helper", as all of their quests 'give you directions', the old fashioned way. "Go to cabin in the southern tip of the woods." instead of, "Go retrieve X because it's marked on the map".
As far as I'm concerned, everyone can just piss off with this "end-game" and "hurry-up-wait" bullshit. Such a plague of nonsense. I've left most other games because of this, because people don't even care to socialize. They're afraid to simply talk to someone in a dungeon because it feels weird to them, and detracts from their hyper-speed questing. It's tiring. I feel like I'm surrounded by zombies.
Lotro's roleplaying atmosphere is like the New Eden of social interaction, even though it's nestled in one of the most fast-paced casual games on the market.
You know, when you subscribe, you have the option to subscribe for only a month. One-month. Try it out. It's well worth it. And if you get to the end-game and don't like, just stop subbing.
Radiance is being removed and LI's (which I love!) Turbine is still deciding if they will remove them.
Is there a post somewhere where they metnion removign Legendary Items? that would be interesting.
not that I am aware of, I saw earlier where someone had posted that but I cannot find a dev reference on the official forums anywhere and during the last Dev chat nothing was mentioned. Also a lot of other info in there as far as to what to expect during the coming year.
<~DelmarWynn> Honvik: Question: What enhancements are turbine looking at adding for radiance/LI’s?
<@Jalessa>; We took Radiance outside, tied it up to some railroad tracks, and…well…I think you saw the end of this in Red Dead Redemption. Look for this in the future – we will be removing Radiance from LOTR
Just my opinion but I love legendaries, soert of anotehr sideways advancement systema nd allows me to tweak my gear to my play style. Sure beatsd the hell out of runing XXXX raid 50 dozen times hoping for the Really Rare Sword of Minstrel Uberness to drop like other mMO s do their endgame weapons. Just get a crafter to make you a nice 2nd age reforge and tweak it in with Runes, scrolls etc
i heard it from a reliable source the idea is being kicked around from what i was told. so don't scorch me cause i don't have a link
From what Raserei wrote he is not interested much in end game. That being the case I think Jeremy hit pretty close to the mark. At 52 since sept. 10 another month and Ras will be out of content. and the way Turbine has been releasing content he will be without it for sometime. Perhaps after playing the game for three years I dont know what im talking about either but as said, 70% is pretty close.
yeah I am sure he will max out his legendaries, complete all his deeds, run all those classic instances, max out his crafting, collect all the costumes, be kindred with all the factions and collect all the rep horses, max out his MPvP all in the next week or so.... LOL you guys are a riot
If you haven't run to Rivendell as a chicken then you haven't done jack. End of story.
All I can say is you will be sorry when the gray squirrel overlords take over.
Radiance is being removed and LI's (which I love!) Turbine is still deciding if they will remove them.
Is there a post somewhere where they metnion removign Legendary Items? that would be interesting.
not that I am aware of, I saw earlier where someone had posted that but I cannot find a dev reference on the official forums anywhere and during the last Dev chat nothing was mentioned. Also a lot of other info in there as far as to what to expect during the coming year.
<~DelmarWynn> Honvik: Question: What enhancements are turbine looking at adding for radiance/LI’s?
<@Jalessa>; We took Radiance outside, tied it up to some railroad tracks, and…well…I think you saw the end of this in Red Dead Redemption. Look for this in the future – we will be removing Radiance from LOTR
Just my opinion but I love legendaries, soert of anotehr sideways advancement systema nd allows me to tweak my gear to my play style. Sure beatsd the hell out of runing XXXX raid 50 dozen times hoping for the Really Rare Sword of Minstrel Uberness to drop like other mMO s do their endgame weapons. Just get a crafter to make you a nice 2nd age reforge and tweak it in with Runes, scrolls etc
i heard it from a reliable source the idea is being kicked around from what i was told. so don't scorch me cause i don't have a link
Why remove legendaries? I like LI. I dislike some aspects of their system but that can be tweaked I like them and the idea behind them. The main problem is the randomness combined with the rareness of first age stuff etc. Fact is most people want one or two particular legacies and the rest is gravy. So playing russian roulette on a First Age is problematic. Its fine on third ages and kinda ok with crafted second ages. Relics need some tweaking and tier 9 gets ridiculous but its ok in theory.
I don't see how they can just suddenly remove access to legacies either.
I only re-subbed to Lotro because I wanted to socialize in a better environment. The roleplaying community in Lotro is king to anything else I've ever played. Like myself, many people seem to enjoy just socializing and taking it easy, smoking pipes and playing music, so I'm enjoying myself in that regard.
Lotro is pretty casual, and the direction seems to be more on "grind fast, get to end", with hand-holding quests along the way. The challenge is limited, but the difficulty is still there if you seek it. I for one, turn off the "quest guide/helper", as all of their quests 'give you directions', the old fashioned way. "Go to cabin in the southern tip of the woods." instead of, "Go retrieve X because it's marked on the map".
As far as I'm concerned, everyone can just piss off with this "end-game" and "hurry-up-wait" bullshit. Such a plague of nonsense. I've left most other games because of this, because people don't even care to socialize. They're afraid to simply talk to someone in a dungeon because it feels weird to them, and detracts from their hyper-speed questing. It's tiring. I feel like I'm surrounded by zombies.
Lotro's roleplaying atmosphere is like the New Eden of social interaction, even though it's nestled in one of the most fast-paced casual games on the market.
You sound like if raiding and socializing were incompatible things. I was raid leader in my guild before leaving, and we were doing BG, DN and VM every week. And I am still in contact with many of my guildies and chat to them regularly.
On the other hand, well, I am happy you enjoy smoking pipe weed by the pony and taking it easy. If you don't care about end-game too much, Lotro does have plenty to offer. However, keep in mind what we are discussing here is end-game. What do you expect ppl to talk about on a thread with exactly that title: End-game.
And end-game in Lotro is just weak. Always was and probably always will. Even during the SoA days. It just got even worse with Mirkwood. Revamping and rescaling the old instances can work for now. What's gonna happen tho when there is a level recap on a future expansion and you end up leveling up 5 or 10 levels to do exactly the same instances you had been doing before to get exactly the same gear you had before with just about 2-3% more stats and AC?
And end-game in Lotro is just weak. Always was and probably always will. Even during the SoA days. It just got even worse with Mirkwood. Revamping and rescaling the old instances can work for now. What's gonna happen tho when there is a level recap on a future expansion and you end up leveling up 5 or 10 levels to do exactly the same instances you had been doing before to get exactly the same gear you had before with just about 2-3% more stats and AC?
So what game do you think has the best end game and why. Be specific. If you think it is EQ then don't just say that SOE had xxx paid expansions in 10 yeras for EQ, what did the expansion make it worth paying for? A higher level cap? A new raid ?
It is easy to say this sucks, any 6 year old can say he does not care for something. Tell us what WoW ( or your game of choice ) did in their expansions that added to end game and why was it good.
The way I see it the instnaced classics will never be obsolete because of the way they scale and how they did the loot with tokens that can be exchanged for the loot of your choice rather than a sword or piece of armor that will simply be replaced with the next expansion. I mean how many raids are worth running in EQII or WoW right now for max lvl characters and how much of their older content just sits idle with no groups interested in running them.
BTW if you botehred to read the Dev chat I lineked abopve you will see that Turbine does plan on adding more and more end game, just the last development cycle was redesigning the older content to be more accessable and worthwhile. You guys can put down the classic instances all you want but people who are playing the game and not just forum trolling are loving them. Compare the worthwhile endgame content in LoTRO to any otehr game and LoTRO comes out wayyyy ahead.
There you have it. Turbine has plans to add tons of endgame content. If Turbine says it then you can count on it. After all, when did they every say one thing and do another? Other than the payment model change of course. Just grow some pipeweed and play a lute and wait. And dont forget to visit the cash shop.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
There you have it. Turbine has plans to add tons of endgame content. If Turbine says it then you can count on it. After all, when did they every say one thing and do another? Other than the payment model change of course. Just grow some pipeweed and play a lute and wait. And dont forget to visit the cash shop.
The thing is, I'm not sure that is exactly fair.
I remember one of the cm's posting on the forum indicating that they had no plans to do that.
But you know what? Having worked in offices for well over 20 years I fully know that what is going on at the Executive level is not always conveyed to people who are on the lower end.
I have no doubt that that cm fully believed that they had no plans.
If Steefel or someone had said it then sure, I would say fie on them. But a CM? Perfectly understandable.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
There you have it. Turbine has plans to add tons of endgame content. If Turbine says it then you can count on it. After all, when did they every say one thing and do another? Other than the payment model change of course. Just grow some pipeweed and play a lute and wait. And dont forget to visit the cash shop.
and therre ya have it, another Philby post where he does not say which game has added more end game content than Turbine and still refuses to outline which MMO has the best current end game content. You even playing any MMO currently Philby, if so I am dying to hear which one? Or is your favorite MMO any game but LoTRO because you are still pineing for MEO? LOL
Bottom line is this....LOTRO does have alot of positive points to it....but "End Game" is not one of them.
Generaly when people talk about "End Game" in MMO's they are usualy refering to 2 things... Raiding & PVP.
LOTRO makes a small nod to both....but frankly it's NOT the games focus...never has been, never will be.
If the fanbois could be honest with themselves or anyone else, they would tell you this with a straight face.
There are LOT'S of reasons to enjoy LOTRO....
If you like RP-ing/socializing/community....this is a great game.
If you like collecting cosmetic items, making muisic, etc......this is a great game.
If you like high-quality writing, story-arcs, lore....this is a great game.
If you like lots of fun and intereting quests to do....this is a great game.
If you like visiting lots of interesting and beautiful places in the world....this is a great game.
If you like casual freindly/solo freindly advancement.....this is a great game.
However, if you like Raiding and PvP (aka the classic MMO "End Game")..... if that's what you truely are looking for in an MMO experience....LOTRO really doesn't have all that much to offer you.... There is some stuff in those areas...but very few people will be satisfied with those as thier "reason to play".....they are more of...lets add some of this stuff in for variety to mix it up while you do other things.
There you have it. Turbine has plans to add tons of endgame content. If Turbine says it then you can count on it. After all, when did they every say one thing and do another? Other than the payment model change of course. Just grow some pipeweed and play a lute and wait. And dont forget to visit the cash shop.
imo a lot of companies out there say one thing and deliver another. I think Turbine is going an amazing job with LotRO. They have changed a lot in the cash shop from beta to launch to make sure that u cant just spend money and get things that other people worked for lets say.
I mean WoW is pretty close to having a cash shop AND a mandatory monthly fee. I feel LotRO is doing it right, and I think F2P is the best thing to ever happen to this game.
As for end game, As long as books come out at a steadily pace, I think it will be awesome.
I know I will go back to WoW when patch 4.0 drops, I will level a character up from 1-85 and then stop again. Unless they implement something that changes the wall you slam into at level cap. The game is dead.
Everyone has their own opinion of end game and what they look forward to. Raiding looks flashy but in all honesty its not what I like. I am happy to be back in LotRO and I feel there is a lot this game has to offer, I haven't even scratched the surface.
There you have it. Turbine has plans to add tons of endgame content. If Turbine says it then you can count on it. After all, when did they every say one thing and do another? Other than the payment model change of course. Just grow some pipeweed and play a lute and wait. And dont forget to visit the cash shop.
and therre ya have it, another Philby post where he does not say which game has added more end game content than Turbine and still refuses to outline which MMO has the best current end game content. You even playing any MMO currently Philby, if so I am dying to hear which one? Or is your favorite MMO any game but LoTRO because you are still pineing for MEO? LOL
End game isn't changing clothes and playing flute in Bree. For me end game is raiding and that particular aspect Lotro lacks. Rift was quite fun though. Resubbed to AoC after a year or so and it seems that this game has much more to do at max level than Lotro. I don't even start with Everquest
Lotro is a nice single player game online with some great grouping options to do instances or play bongos for RP. Not that much an MMO after watering down the content to make it more casual and solo friendly and not much Tolkien lore anymore either with glass cannon class RK and weird wardens running around.
lawl @ watering down and making it solo friendly, that is where a lot of other games lack.
To me, I don't want to solo for 80 levels and then be tossed into random groups of people that don't speak unless they feel someone sucks.
I have not played AoC though, what is there to do in that game? (again i will mention I am not being sarcastic I really am curious) I believe I played AoC for 20 minutes in the past, not too sure. So yah, let me know
I will see someday how LotRO "End-Game" is but I look forward to it being much more then just Raids. The way I see it, there are a ton of things that you can do while leveling but that doesn't mean that they aren't something you can't consider end game things.
Comments
Good post with a relevant point, I've never been the type of player to race to end game because as you say it is pretty much where you as a player are relegated to a few tasks especially being raids, and I for one enjoy the journey to that "end game" much more than the time there. People who often say "the game doesn't start til end game" are just the folks who as we all know exist in mmo's have a strong desire to have the best the game has to offer and I have never played that way and never will.
I played LOTRO til right before Mirkwood and at the time I had two level 60 toons and I did not raid with a single one of them, since resubbing I'vem oved back to my old server with much younger toons a few in the level fifty range so I can't say exactly what is at the end game but I doubt it is anything that you would not have seen in earlier stages.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Yeah my kin has been running the classis a lot. The library and school I've run alot it seems to be the easiest way to get superior marks. My kin(Guardians of Gondor Arkenstone) is staying pretty active though running two 12 mans a week doing a lot of farming in the classic instances. It's all what you make of it I'm still enjoying the game.
Radiance is being removed and LI's (which I love!) Turbine is still deciding if they will remove them.
Is there a post somewhere where they metnion removign Legendary Items? that would be interesting.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
not that I am aware of, I saw earlier where someone had posted that but I cannot find a dev reference on the official forums anywhere and during the last Dev chat nothing was mentioned. Also a lot of other info in there as far as to what to expect during the coming year.
http://www.mordororbust.com/transcript-warcry-dev-chat/
<~DelmarWynn> Honvik: Question: What enhancements are turbine looking at adding for radiance/LI’s?
<@Jalessa>; We took Radiance outside, tied it up to some railroad tracks, and…well…I think you saw the end of this in Red Dead Redemption. Look for this in the future – we will be removing Radiance from LOTR
Just my opinion but I love legendaries, soert of anotehr sideways advancement systema nd allows me to tweak my gear to my play style. Sure beatsd the hell out of runing XXXX raid 50 dozen times hoping for the Really Rare Sword of Minstrel Uberness to drop like other mMO s do their endgame weapons. Just get a crafter to make you a nice 2nd age reforge and tweak it in with Runes, scrolls etc
I miss DAoC
Yeah, instead you run SG 50 dozen times hoping for a symbol so you can give it to a crafter. Maybe if you are lucky the crafted result has proper legacies. If not, you can keep farming SG 50 dozen times more, hoping for a new symbol, until you finally get... Your Really Rare Second Age Sword of Minstrel Uberness!
Aye, now you can start grinding the relics ^^
Sorry, I fail to see how does that beat the hell out of running XXXX raid 50 dozen times etc etc etc.
Now you made me remember that period when a friend of mine had the best pistol in our SWG server. Know what? It was crafted. Good old times, when crafting actually mattered and was challenging and was a part of what we called end-game by its own rights.
This thread has convinced me to get back into LotRO.... I loved WoW but what I realized is that I hated Raiding, I would level a character to 80 get some gear from dungeons, start raiding, and quit. I think LotRO is what I am looking for, more thing to do while I level, and even when I hit the level cap. NOT have to be required to raid or reroll.
This looks good, thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread
XiThRyL
I didn't join an active kin till I was almost 65 and spent absolutely no time in raids and very little time in instances save the epic quests. It is rediculously easy to hit max level in LOTRO without hitting an instance and without having to just grind mobs. Hell I ended up dropping dozens of quests that I outleveled along the way and I still haven't finished all moria areas fully or even 3/4 of mirkwood and I've been 65 for ages. Honestly the raiding aspect of the game is such a minor aspect I'm perfectly fine if they don't release a new raid with every new as they are usually mindnumbingly boring anyways.
I only re-subbed to Lotro because I wanted to socialize in a better environment. The roleplaying community in Lotro is king to anything else I've ever played. Like myself, many people seem to enjoy just socializing and taking it easy, smoking pipes and playing music, so I'm enjoying myself in that regard.
Lotro is pretty casual, and the direction seems to be more on "grind fast, get to end", with hand-holding quests along the way. The challenge is limited, but the difficulty is still there if you seek it. I for one, turn off the "quest guide/helper", as all of their quests 'give you directions', the old fashioned way. "Go to cabin in the southern tip of the woods." instead of, "Go retrieve X because it's marked on the map".
As far as I'm concerned, everyone can just piss off with this "end-game" and "hurry-up-wait" bullshit. Such a plague of nonsense. I've left most other games because of this, because people don't even care to socialize. They're afraid to simply talk to someone in a dungeon because it feels weird to them, and detracts from their hyper-speed questing. It's tiring. I feel like I'm surrounded by zombies.
Lotro's roleplaying atmosphere is like the New Eden of social interaction, even though it's nestled in one of the most fast-paced casual games on the market.
You know, when you subscribe, you have the option to subscribe for only a month. One-month. Try it out. It's well worth it. And if you get to the end-game and don't like, just stop subbing.
Simple, isn't it?
i heard it from a reliable source
the idea is being kicked around from what i was told. so don't scorch me cause i don't have a link 
the thing i hate about li was them taking stuff we had an puting it on them like it was new.
If you haven't run to Rivendell as a chicken then you haven't done jack. End of story.
All I can say is you will be sorry when the gray squirrel overlords take over.
Why remove legendaries? I like LI. I dislike some aspects of their system but that can be tweaked I like them and the idea behind them. The main problem is the randomness combined with the rareness of first age stuff etc. Fact is most people want one or two particular legacies and the rest is gravy. So playing russian roulette on a First Age is problematic. Its fine on third ages and kinda ok with crafted second ages. Relics need some tweaking and tier 9 gets ridiculous but its ok in theory.
I don't see how they can just suddenly remove access to legacies either.
You sound like if raiding and socializing were incompatible things. I was raid leader in my guild before leaving, and we were doing BG, DN and VM every week. And I am still in contact with many of my guildies and chat to them regularly.
On the other hand, well, I am happy you enjoy smoking pipe weed by the pony and taking it easy. If you don't care about end-game too much, Lotro does have plenty to offer. However, keep in mind what we are discussing here is end-game. What do you expect ppl to talk about on a thread with exactly that title: End-game.
And end-game in Lotro is just weak. Always was and probably always will. Even during the SoA days. It just got even worse with Mirkwood. Revamping and rescaling the old instances can work for now. What's gonna happen tho when there is a level recap on a future expansion and you end up leveling up 5 or 10 levels to do exactly the same instances you had been doing before to get exactly the same gear you had before with just about 2-3% more stats and AC?
So what game do you think has the best end game and why. Be specific. If you think it is EQ then don't just say that SOE had xxx paid expansions in 10 yeras for EQ, what did the expansion make it worth paying for? A higher level cap? A new raid ?
It is easy to say this sucks, any 6 year old can say he does not care for something. Tell us what WoW ( or your game of choice ) did in their expansions that added to end game and why was it good.
The way I see it the instnaced classics will never be obsolete because of the way they scale and how they did the loot with tokens that can be exchanged for the loot of your choice rather than a sword or piece of armor that will simply be replaced with the next expansion. I mean how many raids are worth running in EQII or WoW right now for max lvl characters and how much of their older content just sits idle with no groups interested in running them.
BTW if you botehred to read the Dev chat I lineked abopve you will see that Turbine does plan on adding more and more end game, just the last development cycle was redesigning the older content to be more accessable and worthwhile. You guys can put down the classic instances all you want but people who are playing the game and not just forum trolling are loving them. Compare the worthwhile endgame content in LoTRO to any otehr game and LoTRO comes out wayyyy ahead.
I miss DAoC
There you have it. Turbine has plans to add tons of endgame content. If Turbine says it then you can count on it. After all, when did they every say one thing and do another? Other than the payment model change of course. Just grow some pipeweed and play a lute and wait. And dont forget to visit the cash shop.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
The thing is, I'm not sure that is exactly fair.
I remember one of the cm's posting on the forum indicating that they had no plans to do that.
But you know what? Having worked in offices for well over 20 years I fully know that what is going on at the Executive level is not always conveyed to people who are on the lower end.
I have no doubt that that cm fully believed that they had no plans.
If Steefel or someone had said it then sure, I would say fie on them. But a CM? Perfectly understandable.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
and therre ya have it, another Philby post where he does not say which game has added more end game content than Turbine and still refuses to outline which MMO has the best current end game content. You even playing any MMO currently Philby, if so I am dying to hear which one? Or is your favorite MMO any game but LoTRO because you are still pineing for MEO? LOL
I miss DAoC
Bottom line is this....LOTRO does have alot of positive points to it....but "End Game" is not one of them.
Generaly when people talk about "End Game" in MMO's they are usualy refering to 2 things... Raiding & PVP.
LOTRO makes a small nod to both....but frankly it's NOT the games focus...never has been, never will be.
If the fanbois could be honest with themselves or anyone else, they would tell you this with a straight face.
There are LOT'S of reasons to enjoy LOTRO....
If you like RP-ing/socializing/community....this is a great game.
If you like collecting cosmetic items, making muisic, etc......this is a great game.
If you like high-quality writing, story-arcs, lore....this is a great game.
If you like lots of fun and intereting quests to do....this is a great game.
If you like visiting lots of interesting and beautiful places in the world....this is a great game.
If you like casual freindly/solo freindly advancement.....this is a great game.
However, if you like Raiding and PvP (aka the classic MMO "End Game")..... if that's what you truely are looking for in an MMO experience....LOTRO really doesn't have all that much to offer you.... There is some stuff in those areas...but very few people will be satisfied with those as thier "reason to play".....they are more of...lets add some of this stuff in for variety to mix it up while you do other things.
imo a lot of companies out there say one thing and deliver another. I think Turbine is going an amazing job with LotRO. They have changed a lot in the cash shop from beta to launch to make sure that u cant just spend money and get things that other people worked for lets say.
I mean WoW is pretty close to having a cash shop AND a mandatory monthly fee. I feel LotRO is doing it right, and I think F2P is the best thing to ever happen to this game.
As for end game, As long as books come out at a steadily pace, I think it will be awesome.
I know I will go back to WoW when patch 4.0 drops, I will level a character up from 1-85 and then stop again. Unless they implement something that changes the wall you slam into at level cap. The game is dead.
Everyone has their own opinion of end game and what they look forward to. Raiding looks flashy but in all honesty its not what I like. I am happy to be back in LotRO and I feel there is a lot this game has to offer, I haven't even scratched the surface.
lawl @ watering down and making it solo friendly, that is where a lot of other games lack.
To me, I don't want to solo for 80 levels and then be tossed into random groups of people that don't speak unless they feel someone sucks.
I have not played AoC though, what is there to do in that game? (again i will mention I am not being sarcastic I really am curious) I believe I played AoC for 20 minutes in the past, not too sure. So yah, let me know
I will see someday how LotRO "End-Game" is but I look forward to it being much more then just Raids. The way I see it, there are a ton of things that you can do while leveling but that doesn't mean that they aren't something you can't consider end game things.