Whew, those really are just pure WoW hate posts. Any form of objectivity appears to have been crushed under a pile of bitterness.
You want to point out some innovative game mechanic blizzard came up with that I didn't notice? Or perhaps you want to try to justify lack of CC and agro in an MMO?
Whew, those really are just pure WoW hate posts. Any form of objectivity appears to have been crushed under a pile of bitterness.
You want to point out some innovative game mechanic blizzard came up with that I didn't notice? Or perhaps you want to try to justify lack of CC and agro in an MMO?
It has CC and agro control and uses them. It is a premier game when it comes to using these elements. Do you want me to link you a bunch of skills or something?
Whew, those really are just pure WoW hate posts. Any form of objectivity appears to have been crushed under a pile of bitterness.
You want to point out some innovative game mechanic blizzard came up with that I didn't notice? Or perhaps you want to try to justify lack of CC and agro in an MMO?
It has CC and agro control and uses them. It is a premier game when it comes to using these elements. Do you want me to link you a bunch of skills or something?
Oddly enough CC is one of the things I most hated about WoW. There is literally zero gain in enjoyment from being rooted or controlled. It is a moment of just having to sit there and wait to be able to play the game again while you get hit with crap.
I've always preferred the MMOs that do not have lame crowd control like that, never did get the appeal outside of being the class that is using it and getting enjoyment from ruining the fun for other players. Well balanced games with lots of options have been created where things like root doesn't exist, and they are always way more fun to play.
Oddly enough CC is one of the things I most hated about WoW. There is literally zero gain in enjoyment from being rooted or controlled. It is a moment of just having to sit there and wait to be able to play the game again while you get hit with crap.
I've always preferred the MMOs that do not have lame crowd control like that, never did get the appeal outside of being the class that is using it and getting enjoyment from ruining the fun for other players. Well balanced games with lots of options have been created where things like root doesn't exist, and they are always way more fun to play.
Yeah, I understand that point of view. There is likely nothing less fun than having a rogue pop on you, cc you, have a ret pally chain onto you and be dead without having an option to do anything.
GD, pages and pages and talk about this topic? And I thought WoW had failed recently and the servers were expected to shut down lol. Guess I heard wrong...
Dumbing down obviously. WoW made its fortune by dumbing down already simple game mechanics and advertising their game to people who don't normally play games. Same as the Wii. And they'll continue to do it. There was never anything complex about WoW.
Gameplay mechanics are more complicated than they ever have been in the history of WoW.
That's not really saying much at all. And no, word on the street is, WoW is easier than ever, which is impressive, because it was the simplest MMO on the market when it came out.
Word on the street meaning people like you and your friends who spread rumours and false accusations about anything and everything. WoW has ALWAYS been a very easy game to play. Them "dumbing down" or making the game accessible to everyone as the rest of us call it, is making them millions of dollars in a raised subscriber base. At the end of the day they are a business. Theyre not going to make it mind blowingly hard or tedious just because a select few gets their rocks off on it.
That will just cause a substantial loss in subscriber numbers and therefore profits.
And this is what drives them crazy. The success of WOW compiled with the mediocre success or complete failure of the alternatives is the driving force behind the troll posts on anything WOW related. Its good entertainment during Tuesday mainttenance, nothing more.
Yes, it is infuriating when mediocre uninspired unoriginal titles become smash hits simply because Blizzard has a massive marketing budget and made the game easy as dirt, when good innovative push the envelope titles waste away. And the fact that you're happy about that shows that you don't care about the game industry.
What I care about has no bearing on the FACT that all MMO's pale in comparison to what Blizzard has done. The only two games that were even close to any competition have both recently went F2P. That pretty much sums up the quality of the competition. Truth is the folks at Blizzard know how to deliever a solid game.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
What I care about has no bearing on the FACT that all MMO's pale in comparison to what Blizzard has done. The only two games that were even close to any competition have both recently went F2P. That pretty much sums up the quality of the competition. Truth is the folks at Blizzard know how to deliever a solid game.
Really looking to turn this thread into a playing to the lowest common denominator vs quality?
Even most of the WoW players admit that WoW isn't the most creative, best looking, best lore, most original, etc etc game out there. It is played so much because it is so simple. It is easy to learn, easy to play, easy to max level. It is essentially a paint by numbers but in MMO form.
I can't take anyone seriously who does not grasp that fact and that blizzard just dumbed down the genre so those who found it too complex could now hop in and play one of the most simplistic and unoriginal games ever created. While you're at it make sure to call Halo truly amazing as well.
Call me crazy but I'm one of those people where if I ran my own MMO company I'd want to make something truly amazing with a lot of depth which had only a few hundred thousand players rather then something so bland and unoriginal but had millions. That's the difference between someone who does it for the money and someone who does it because they truly love what they do and love creating an experience.
Reality TV shows make up a huge portion of what is watched on TV now. I guess Reality TV is the true quality product, not all of the original programming with solid writing and acting. Clearly Snookie getting drunk every night and sleeping with everything that moves is far better quality...... Numbers don't mean shit when it comes to quality.
Originally posted by M1sf1t Notice how people who complain WoW is being dumb downed are also the ones complaining about how hard it is to play their class now and how they have to relearn the class over again and how that sucks. That to me doesn't sound like dumb downed at all but people who can't adapt to the slight change in game play getting their panties in a bunch.
WoW was ever hard in the first place? Worse part about wow is the mostly useless pve raids, PvE raids for endgame is pretty fail, I'dhave prefered a pvp endgame or at least some meaningful pvp endgame you could do. Maybe land control that gives bonuses to your faction or something.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
That's just sad. Seriously. An MMO without CC or agro management...and it's doing well. Blizzard has hundreds of employees, what do they DO with their time? Obviously not come up with exciting game mechanics. They probably spend all their time playing other MMOs so they can figure out what to steal and water down, then shove into their giant Borg Cube of WoW.
Actually, they were a lot of CC required during BC, and at some point, I think Blizzard wanted to reduce the CC requirement from their dungeons in WotLK. Why? Because groups were only looking for Mages (Polymorph), Rogues (Sheep) or Hunters (Freezing Trap) almost as much as they were looking for healers or tanks. The classes/specs without CCs were just ignored.
So first you remove the CC requirement, then pour in AOE abilities to every classes, including tanks which are now doing high damage. On top of that slam the grotesque ilevel increase between a fresh 80 (ilevel 187) and a Gearscore God (ilevel 284) in a game heavily biased toward gear.
They are fixing it in Cataclysm by making CC back as a requirement. I do think the ilevel increase will still be bad since it's their only carrot, and that's why I'm not looking forward raiding in WoW anymore. But we'll see how it goes. :P
I still don't think trimming down trees is really dumbing down. As a mage I had a lot of yuck talents to points point in, now they look much better. I was also stuck in 1 or 2 specs depending on PVP or PVE. I think it's going to be much better with this much needed housekeeping they just did.
Read my blog, and start reading it in the future, because there you will find out what it is like playing with the new talent tree system, along with the new glyphs, and the impact reforging is having on classes, and how people play their toons. It amazes me that so many non-WoW players think they know, and understand the new mechanics of the game (saying it is dumbed down further), and they do not even play it. Second for those that do play it, and are having a difficult time with the new system...if Blizzard is "dumbing" it down further, and making it easier..why are you having such a hard time "learning to play" your class - I would think it would be easier...not harder. From someone that does understand, and has worked with the new system - I am loving it. My Hunter...she was so-so before patch 4.0.1, but now...she is a Hunter that is pulling 9.4k dps on average in 5-mans! We did a full clear of Pit of Saron of everything. In the end...this is the results.
If people tell you Hunters are broke...they just do not know how to play one properly - "yet". There is a learning curve again...and it will take time for people to figure out what works best for them. BTW I am survival specced...you know how eveyone is bitching about the loss of Hunters AoE - I have to laugh..because the new multi-shot makes the old AoE seem pathetic. Anyway....I'll be doing some write ups on my experiences with Cataclsym playing 4 different classes - all unique, and all played differently than I suspect than most other players: Blood Death Knight, Survival Hunter, Holy Priest, and Enhancement Shaman.
What I care about has no bearing on the FACT that all MMO's pale in comparison to what Blizzard has done. The only two games that were even close to any competition have both recently went F2P. That pretty much sums up the quality of the competition. Truth is the folks at Blizzard know how to deliever a solid game.
Really looking to turn this thread into a playing to the lowest common denominator vs quality?
Even most of the WoW players admit that WoW isn't the most creative, best looking, best lore, most original, etc etc game out there. It is played so much because it is so simple. It is easy to learn, easy to play, easy to max level. It is essentially a paint by numbers but in MMO form.
I can't take anyone seriously who does not grasp that fact and that blizzard just dumbed down the genre so those who found it too complex could now hop in and play one of the most simplistic and unoriginal games ever created. While you're at it make sure to call Halo truly amazing as well.
Call me crazy but I'm one of those people where if I ran my own MMO company I'd want to make something truly amazing with a lot of depth which had only a few hundred thousand players rather then something so bland and unoriginal but had millions. That's the difference between someone who does it for the money and someone who does it because they truly love what they do and love creating an experience.
Reality TV shows make up a huge portion of what is watched on TV now. I guess Reality TV is the true quality product, not all of the original programming with solid writing and acting. Clearly Snookie getting drunk every night and sleeping with everything that moves is far better quality...... Numbers don't mean shit when it comes to quality.
Yes, everyone wants a hardcore, innovative, dynamic -insert more here- game but its not being done is it? Where are these WOW killers people keep talking about? Success breeds contempt and like it or not WOW is a huge success. Warhammer, AOC and LOTRO all had their shot. What went wrong? Is Blizzard to blame or did War and AOC release broken and buggy? Is it Blizzards fault or did Turbine allow a fairly succesful game to wither to the point that F2P was the only option? I guess its easier to blame Blizzard because your game of choice sucks than to place the blame where it belongs, or perhpas its just cool to hate on whats popular.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
What I care about has no bearing on the FACT that all MMO's pale in comparison to what Blizzard has done. The only two games that were even close to any competition have both recently went F2P. That pretty much sums up the quality of the competition. Truth is the folks at Blizzard know how to deliever a solid game.
Really looking to turn this thread into a playing to the lowest common denominator vs quality?
Even most of the WoW players admit that WoW isn't the most creative, best looking, best lore, most original, etc etc game out there. It is played so much because it is so simple. It is easy to learn, easy to play, easy to max level. It is essentially a paint by numbers but in MMO form.
I can't take anyone seriously who does not grasp that fact and that blizzard just dumbed down the genre so those who found it too complex could now hop in and play one of the most simplistic and unoriginal games ever created. While you're at it make sure to call Halo truly amazing as well.
Call me crazy but I'm one of those people where if I ran my own MMO company I'd want to make something truly amazing with a lot of depth which had only a few hundred thousand players rather then something so bland and unoriginal but had millions. That's the difference between someone who does it for the money and someone who does it because they truly love what they do and love creating an experience.
Reality TV shows make up a huge portion of what is watched on TV now. I guess Reality TV is the true quality product, not all of the original programming with solid writing and acting. Clearly Snookie getting drunk every night and sleeping with everything that moves is far better quality...... Numbers don't mean shit when it comes to quality.
Blizzard did not dumb down the genre....look to the other companies who made their games - are you saying Blizzard developers made all the other games? Why blame Blizzard for how other games turn out. It is not Blizzards fault other games failed...blame the companies that created those games because it was "their" game - not Blizzards!
Blizzard did not dumb down the genre....look to the other companies who made their games - are you saying Blizzard developers made all the other games? Why blame Blizzard for how other games turn out. It is not Blizzards fault other games failed...blame the companies that created those games because it was "their" game - not Blizzards!
WoW is a dumbed down version of what the genre was before WoW showed up which was a deliberate move to get the audience that found MMOs to complicated or hard. I'm not talk ingabout any silly companies who tried to make WoW clones after the fact. Considering my post did not mention any other game besides WoW I can only assume you read what you wanted to read.
Blizzard did not dumb down the genre....look to the other companies who made their games - are you saying Blizzard developers made all the other games? Why blame Blizzard for how other games turn out. It is not Blizzards fault other games failed...blame the companies that created those games because it was "their" game - not Blizzards!
WoW is a dumbed down version of what the genre was before WoW showed up which was a deliberate move to get the audience that found MMOs to complicated or hard. I'm not talk ingabout any silly companies who tried to make WoW clones after the fact. Considering my post did not mention any other game besides WoW I can only assume you read what you wanted to read.
I played UO an EQ. Certainly EQ was a dumbed down version of WoW and not the other way around. UO was apples and oranges.
DAoC was pretty good for PvP, but the other aspects were dumbed down more than WoW.
Yes, everyone wants a hardcore, innovative, dynamic -insert more here- game but its not being done is it? Where are these WOW killers people keep talking about? Success breeds contempt and like it or not WOW is a huge success. Warhammer, AOC and LOTRO all had their shot. What went wrong? Is Blizzard to blame or did War and AOC release broken and buggy? Is it Blizzards fault or did Turbine allow a fairly succesful game to wither to the point that F2P was the only option? I guess its easier to blame Blizzard because your game of choice sucks than to place the blame where it belongs, or perhpas its just cool to hate on whats popular.
You should look at my post history, I always tell people each new game will not be a WoW killer. WoW already played to the lowest common denominator and there isn't a lower one, which means no game can undercut WoW and get the player base.
If you admit that Snookie getting drunk and getting in fights with her roomates is HIGHER QUALITY then other TV shows since so many people watch it then you can have a case that WoW is a HIGHER QUALITY game just because more people play it then other games.
Making something that caters to the widest audience (which unfortunatly is usually the less intelligent audience because thought provoking plot lines/game mechanics drive that group away) increase the amount of viewers/gamers you get dramatically. It doesn't mean that your product has any quality to it.
I'm not hating on any product, I'm simply hating on you for thinking that numbers=quality when even an 8 year old can grasp the truth of how things work.
I don't need millions of people in any MMO I play, never expect it either. I also have a lot of enjoyment in the games I choose to play so I have zero regrets about my gaming choices. I do however think you are a nut job.
First off, Blizzard had a built in audiance...they made Diablo...one of the first massive online games...they had 4 million players playing it back in 1997! So they knew their audiance. They set out to make a game easily "accessable"(didn't need a super computer to run it) to millions and made a fun and challenging game. They succeeded. If you think WoW is easy may I ask if you have completed all the raid on hard mode yet?
Also..calling people names - is that really called for to make your point? If it is - then you forfeit your argument.
lol you can't use popularity as an indication of quality. there are numerous examples as to why this simply does not follow. Just go look at the billboard top 100. those aren't all high quality songs and in perfect descending order. Hell look at the mmorpg.com list of games and their hype rating, could be used against any 'wow has milions of poeple so it must be good' argument.
Thing is this isn't an argument if you say 'WoW must be good, look at all the subs it gets' , its just you being wrong and other people telling you that a dozen different ways. Also if you don't see how both 'sides' of "WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great." are both trying to justify the game based on its subscribers you need to not be attempting debate with others.
and yes it does cater to lowest common denonimeters to cast the widest net grabbing players, this can be objectively observed purely through numbers. Low system specs through low impact art allowing it to be played on more systems. Easier learning curve with its lower amount of content and systems introduced to a new player. Overall easier due to the maximum amount of systems any one player can partake in compared to other MMO's. Each system in and of itself having less layers and steps to deal with. Its even advantageous when wanting to look polished and bug free since it has less to keep polished and bug free evident by what I have already described. So lower requirements for upkeep by developers. Its the facebook or twitter of MMO's.
lol you can't use popularity as an indication of quality. there are numerous examples as to why this simply does not follow. Just go look at the billboard top 100. those aren't all high quality songs and in perfect descending order. Hell look at the mmorpg.com list of games and their hype rating, could be used against any 'wow has milions of poeple so it must be good' argument.
Thing is this isn't an argument if you say 'WoW must be good, look at all the subs it gets' , its just you being wrong and other people telling you that a dozen different ways. Also if you don't see how both 'sides' of "WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great." are both trying to justify the game based on its subscribers you need to not be attempting debate with others.
So in your world a sig stateing "wow has 12 million players because it sucks" would be more appropriate? I would love to stay and learn more from the keen instight of the trolls here but I have a bit of yardwork and then the servers will be back up so I can go hang with the rest of the losers that dont know WOW sucks.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
lol you can't use popularity as an indication of quality. there are numerous examples as to why this simply does not follow. Just go look at the billboard top 100. those aren't all high quality songs and in perfect descending order. Hell look at the mmorpg.com list of games and their hype rating, could be used against any 'wow has milions of poeple so it must be good' argument.
Thing is this isn't an argument if you say 'WoW must be good, look at all the subs it gets' , its just you being wrong and other people telling you that a dozen different ways. Also if you don't see how both 'sides' of "WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great." are both trying to justify the game based on its subscribers you need to not be attempting debate with others.
Analogies do not work in this instance and I do not understand why the people that dislike WoW use them all the time - we're not comparing apples to apples...or fast food to fast food here...this genre is unique and the players that participate in this genre are some of the most dedicated gamers you'll ever encounter. Think about it...people that play MMO's are willing to pay money, monthly, to play a game. If WoW is such a bad game, how is it that Blizzard manages to get a monthly fee out of so many people - when there are so many other MMORPG's out there right now that are free?! Seriously...explain that one.
also I was editing my post during your replies. WoW has the benefit of one of the easiest learning curves and lowest peaks of mastering the game.
I disagree. While it's far from being as complex as, let's say, DDO, its learning curve is very similar to most AAA games. It's peak may be about equal; What makes it easy is the abundance of fansites to guide you in your way. For example, mastering your class in AoC requires you to dig amongst a pile of outdated information from its release, combined with incomplete tooltips. But as a counterpart, you have to be much more competitive in WoW if you want to be amongst the best.
also I was editing my post during your replies. WoW has the benefit of one of the easiest learning curves and lowest peaks of mastering the game.
I'm guessing you have never actually PvP'd higher than 1800 and have never completed anything on hard mode. It's a difficult game to master, especially when compared to other MMORPGs.
That is indeed where conflict arises. Because CC/Threat is a good thing. The trees are not. Is CC/Threat enough. Definitely one of those things at least worth $15 to try... not worth buying Cata, but definitely worth $15.
I agree GC went too far in some regards and not far enough in others. CC returning is good, AOE bursting a boss to death was bad.Iit meant you can also AOE burst someone down in PVP . And that was really bad. Now ranged burst is too high though. Healers and Pure DPS Casters are way over the top. Since he decided to hit the reset switch on talents he should have don the same thing on gear. Simply stated he let burst get out of control and it is just too much. Everything needs to be scaled back down to at least BC standards. That means he has to scale instances from the ground up with the same extensive broom he used on the talent tree. Also he needs more flexibility on the talents. Five points to spare is just not enough and everyone playing the same class is just dum dum du dum dumb.
I really get the feeling that you either don't play WoW or have not -played it for a really, really long time. There are many other comments that make me think this, but the one is red is one example.
The second line in red is already addressed when Cata is released. You get 10 points. Not 5 points.
You get ten but no one will really spend ten because the DPS loss would be too great. And like I said before even with 10 points a Hunter could still only reach for Tier two hunter talents like Imp Steady Shot, and thats just not worth it. An Enh shaman cant reach for much need elemental talents and a Priest can no longer reach for the oh so needed 3rd tier Disc talents. Some classes ended up worse after the patch.
Also a few points for tier two talents is nearly useless far from a 40 point hybrid. People went from being an 80 spending 15 to 20+ points in another tree to an 85 spending 3 to 10 points in another tree. I mean do the math 5 more levels with nearly a 60 percent decrease in talent selection. It's obviously a talent tax.
Comments
You want to point out some innovative game mechanic blizzard came up with that I didn't notice? Or perhaps you want to try to justify lack of CC and agro in an MMO?
It has CC and agro control and uses them. It is a premier game when it comes to using these elements. Do you want me to link you a bunch of skills or something?
Oddly enough CC is one of the things I most hated about WoW. There is literally zero gain in enjoyment from being rooted or controlled. It is a moment of just having to sit there and wait to be able to play the game again while you get hit with crap.
I've always preferred the MMOs that do not have lame crowd control like that, never did get the appeal outside of being the class that is using it and getting enjoyment from ruining the fun for other players. Well balanced games with lots of options have been created where things like root doesn't exist, and they are always way more fun to play.
Yeah, I understand that point of view. There is likely nothing less fun than having a rogue pop on you, cc you, have a ret pally chain onto you and be dead without having an option to do anything.
GD, pages and pages and talk about this topic? And I thought WoW had failed recently and the servers were expected to shut down lol. Guess I heard wrong...
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
What I care about has no bearing on the FACT that all MMO's pale in comparison to what Blizzard has done. The only two games that were even close to any competition have both recently went F2P. That pretty much sums up the quality of the competition. Truth is the folks at Blizzard know how to deliever a solid game.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Really looking to turn this thread into a playing to the lowest common denominator vs quality?
Even most of the WoW players admit that WoW isn't the most creative, best looking, best lore, most original, etc etc game out there. It is played so much because it is so simple. It is easy to learn, easy to play, easy to max level. It is essentially a paint by numbers but in MMO form.
I can't take anyone seriously who does not grasp that fact and that blizzard just dumbed down the genre so those who found it too complex could now hop in and play one of the most simplistic and unoriginal games ever created. While you're at it make sure to call Halo truly amazing as well.
Call me crazy but I'm one of those people where if I ran my own MMO company I'd want to make something truly amazing with a lot of depth which had only a few hundred thousand players rather then something so bland and unoriginal but had millions. That's the difference between someone who does it for the money and someone who does it because they truly love what they do and love creating an experience.
Reality TV shows make up a huge portion of what is watched on TV now. I guess Reality TV is the true quality product, not all of the original programming with solid writing and acting. Clearly Snookie getting drunk every night and sleeping with everything that moves is far better quality...... Numbers don't mean shit when it comes to quality.
WoW was ever hard in the first place? Worse part about wow is the mostly useless pve raids, PvE raids for endgame is pretty fail, I'dhave prefered a pvp endgame or at least some meaningful pvp endgame you could do. Maybe land control that gives bonuses to your faction or something.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Actually, they were a lot of CC required during BC, and at some point, I think Blizzard wanted to reduce the CC requirement from their dungeons in WotLK. Why? Because groups were only looking for Mages (Polymorph), Rogues (Sheep) or Hunters (Freezing Trap) almost as much as they were looking for healers or tanks. The classes/specs without CCs were just ignored.
So first you remove the CC requirement, then pour in AOE abilities to every classes, including tanks which are now doing high damage. On top of that slam the grotesque ilevel increase between a fresh 80 (ilevel 187) and a Gearscore God (ilevel 284) in a game heavily biased toward gear.
They are fixing it in Cataclysm by making CC back as a requirement. I do think the ilevel increase will still be bad since it's their only carrot, and that's why I'm not looking forward raiding in WoW anymore. But we'll see how it goes. :P
I still don't think trimming down trees is really dumbing down. As a mage I had a lot of yuck talents to points point in, now they look much better. I was also stuck in 1 or 2 specs depending on PVP or PVE. I think it's going to be much better with this much needed housekeeping they just did.
Read my blog, and start reading it in the future, because there you will find out what it is like playing with the new talent tree system, along with the new glyphs, and the impact reforging is having on classes, and how people play their toons. It amazes me that so many non-WoW players think they know, and understand the new mechanics of the game (saying it is dumbed down further), and they do not even play it. Second for those that do play it, and are having a difficult time with the new system...if Blizzard is "dumbing" it down further, and making it easier..why are you having such a hard time "learning to play" your class - I would think it would be easier...not harder. From someone that does understand, and has worked with the new system - I am loving it. My Hunter...she was so-so before patch 4.0.1, but now...she is a Hunter that is pulling 9.4k dps on average in 5-mans! We did a full clear of Pit of Saron of everything. In the end...this is the results.
If people tell you Hunters are broke...they just do not know how to play one properly - "yet". There is a learning curve again...and it will take time for people to figure out what works best for them. BTW I am survival specced...you know how eveyone is bitching about the loss of Hunters AoE - I have to laugh..because the new multi-shot makes the old AoE seem pathetic. Anyway....I'll be doing some write ups on my experiences with Cataclsym playing 4 different classes - all unique, and all played differently than I suspect than most other players: Blood Death Knight, Survival Hunter, Holy Priest, and Enhancement Shaman.
My Blog! <<<< clicky
Yes, everyone wants a hardcore, innovative, dynamic -insert more here- game but its not being done is it? Where are these WOW killers people keep talking about? Success breeds contempt and like it or not WOW is a huge success. Warhammer, AOC and LOTRO all had their shot. What went wrong? Is Blizzard to blame or did War and AOC release broken and buggy? Is it Blizzards fault or did Turbine allow a fairly succesful game to wither to the point that F2P was the only option? I guess its easier to blame Blizzard because your game of choice sucks than to place the blame where it belongs, or perhpas its just cool to hate on whats popular.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Blizzard did not dumb down the genre....look to the other companies who made their games - are you saying Blizzard developers made all the other games? Why blame Blizzard for how other games turn out. It is not Blizzards fault other games failed...blame the companies that created those games because it was "their" game - not Blizzards!
WoW is a dumbed down version of what the genre was before WoW showed up which was a deliberate move to get the audience that found MMOs to complicated or hard. I'm not talk ingabout any silly companies who tried to make WoW clones after the fact. Considering my post did not mention any other game besides WoW I can only assume you read what you wanted to read.
I played UO an EQ. Certainly EQ was a dumbed down version of WoW and not the other way around. UO was apples and oranges.
DAoC was pretty good for PvP, but the other aspects were dumbed down more than WoW.
First off, Blizzard had a built in audiance...they made Diablo...one of the first massive online games...they had 4 million players playing it back in 1997! So they knew their audiance. They set out to make a game easily "accessable"(didn't need a super computer to run it) to millions and made a fun and challenging game. They succeeded. If you think WoW is easy may I ask if you have completed all the raid on hard mode yet?
Also..calling people names - is that really called for to make your point? If it is - then you forfeit your argument.
What is a challenging game to you then if I may ask?
Not a fact. Just so you know.
I comprenend that when one has to stoop to personal attacks to try and make a point the debate is over. Have a nice day and, thanks for playing
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
lol you can't use popularity as an indication of quality. there are numerous examples as to why this simply does not follow. Just go look at the billboard top 100. those aren't all high quality songs and in perfect descending order. Hell look at the mmorpg.com list of games and their hype rating, could be used against any 'wow has milions of poeple so it must be good' argument.
Thing is this isn't an argument if you say 'WoW must be good, look at all the subs it gets' , its just you being wrong and other people telling you that a dozen different ways. Also if you don't see how both 'sides' of "WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great." are both trying to justify the game based on its subscribers you need to not be attempting debate with others.
and yes it does cater to lowest common denonimeters to cast the widest net grabbing players, this can be objectively observed purely through numbers. Low system specs through low impact art allowing it to be played on more systems. Easier learning curve with its lower amount of content and systems introduced to a new player. Overall easier due to the maximum amount of systems any one player can partake in compared to other MMO's. Each system in and of itself having less layers and steps to deal with. Its even advantageous when wanting to look polished and bug free since it has less to keep polished and bug free evident by what I have already described. So lower requirements for upkeep by developers. Its the facebook or twitter of MMO's.
So in your world a sig stateing "wow has 12 million players because it sucks" would be more appropriate? I would love to stay and learn more from the keen instight of the trolls here but I have a bit of yardwork and then the servers will be back up so I can go hang with the rest of the losers that dont know WOW sucks.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Analogies do not work in this instance and I do not understand why the people that dislike WoW use them all the time - we're not comparing apples to apples...or fast food to fast food here...this genre is unique and the players that participate in this genre are some of the most dedicated gamers you'll ever encounter. Think about it...people that play MMO's are willing to pay money, monthly, to play a game. If WoW is such a bad game, how is it that Blizzard manages to get a monthly fee out of so many people - when there are so many other MMORPG's out there right now that are free?! Seriously...explain that one.
please point out where I said WoW was bad.
also I was editing my post during your replies. WoW has the benefit of one of the easiest learning curves and lowest peaks of mastering the game.
I disagree. While it's far from being as complex as, let's say, DDO, its learning curve is very similar to most AAA games. It's peak may be about equal; What makes it easy is the abundance of fansites to guide you in your way. For example, mastering your class in AoC requires you to dig amongst a pile of outdated information from its release, combined with incomplete tooltips. But as a counterpart, you have to be much more competitive in WoW if you want to be amongst the best.
I'm guessing you have never actually PvP'd higher than 1800 and have never completed anything on hard mode. It's a difficult game to master, especially when compared to other MMORPGs.
You get ten but no one will really spend ten because the DPS loss would be too great.
And like I said before even with 10 points a Hunter could still only reach for Tier two hunter talents like Imp Steady Shot, and thats just not worth it. An Enh shaman cant reach for much need elemental talents and a Priest can no longer reach for the oh so needed 3rd tier Disc talents. Some classes ended up worse after the patch.
Also a few points for tier two talents is nearly useless far from a 40 point hybrid. People went from being an 80 spending 15 to 20+ points in another tree to an 85 spending 3 to 10 points in another tree. I mean do the math 5 more levels with nearly a 60 percent decrease in talent selection. It's obviously a talent tax.