A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.
It is possible to apply the creative imagination to different areas of this idea, for example:
the impact of imagined science
the imagined impact of actual science
imagined technology based upon actual science
imagined technology based upon imagined science
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined societies
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined individuals, etc., etc.
I could keep going, but your personal definition has nothing to do with what almost everyone considers science fiction.
ok so what is different from this than what I've said:
Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.[1][2][3] It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature
with the exception that Star Wars is not science fiction, it's probably closer to "science fantasy".
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
"A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background."
Hmmm... it's got space travel, life on other planets, that form "part of the plot or background". Nothing says it has to be ABOUT that.
Your definition is simply too narrow. Perhaps a reflection of the mind from which it came?
If you have a simple story about a person being stranded on a planet and he finds a robot. The robot does absolutely nothing but he talks to it daily for a whole year until he is rescued. Is that story science fiction or one about survival or one about psychology ?
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Yes and most Fnatasy is not about Swords and Magic but relatiosnhips between peopel and nations and th enature of good and evil,responsiblity and consequences.You can break down most genres and strip them of there trappings and come back to the central tennets of all storytelling in human history.
Star Wars is very heavily influenced by fantasy. The lightsabre is a magic sword. The force draws upon the light and dark forces, very similar to holy and dark magic.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.
It is possible to apply the creative imagination to different areas of this idea, for example:
the impact of imagined science
the imagined impact of actual science
imagined technology based upon actual science
imagined technology based upon imagined science
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined societies
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined individuals, etc., etc.
I could keep going, but your personal definition has nothing to do with what almost everyone considers science fiction.
ok so what is different from this than what I've said:
Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.[1][2][3] It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature
with the exception that Star Wars is not science fiction, it's probably closer to "science fantasy".
I put in yellow what sums up what I've also said.
no matter how many times you say it, it won't become true.
You h ave in your mind what you want sci-fi to be... and it's just not the case. Get over it.
answer the question please.
What you put in highlighed in yellow is not what you said. What you put in yellow is why they said what you said was wrong.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.
It is possible to apply the creative imagination to different areas of this idea, for example:
the impact of imagined science
the imagined impact of actual science
imagined technology based upon actual science
imagined technology based upon imagined science
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined societies
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined individuals, etc., etc.
I could keep going, but your personal definition has nothing to do with what almost everyone considers science fiction.
ok so what is different from this than what I've said:
Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.[1][2][3] It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature
with the exception that Star Wars is not science fiction, it's probably closer to "science fantasy".
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
"A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background."
Hmmm... it's got space travel, life on other planets, that form "part of the plot or background". Nothing says it has to be ABOUT that.
Your definition is simply too narrow. Perhaps a reflection of the mind from which it came?
That is true, it has space travel and life on other planets.
but what people are equating to "science fiction" is setting. So if i was to take "The Lord of the rings", put dwarves and hobbits and elves on different planets, make the one ring a giant mind control device it would then be science fiction?
Remember "forms part of the plot or background". But the rest is the impact of science or mankind dealing with science, whether it be 2001 a space odyssey or Invasion of the body snatchers.
It's not so shallow as that. Setting does not make or break science fiction.
The setting is the stage for the story and themes to develop.
It's the story and themes in conjunction with the setting that help make it science fiction. There is nothing about Star Wars that relies upon the setting because the setting could be changed without changing the story. Make light sabers swords, and the death star some sort of large incendiary device.
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A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.
It is possible to apply the creative imagination to different areas of this idea, for example:
the impact of imagined science
the imagined impact of actual science
imagined technology based upon actual science
imagined technology based upon imagined science
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined societies
the impact of science and technology, or both, upon imagined individuals, etc., etc.
I could keep going, but your personal definition has nothing to do with what almost everyone considers science fiction.
ok so what is different from this than what I've said:
Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.[1][2][3] It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature
with the exception that Star Wars is not science fiction, it's probably closer to "science fantasy".
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
"A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background."
Hmmm... it's got space travel, life on other planets, that form "part of the plot or background". Nothing says it has to be ABOUT that.
Your definition is simply too narrow. Perhaps a reflection of the mind from which it came?
That is true, it has space travel and life on other planets.
but what people are equating to "science fiction" is setting. So if i was to take "The Lord of the rings", put dwarves and hobbits and elves on different planets, make the one ring a giant mind control device it would then be science fiction?
Remember "forms part of the plot or background". But the rest is the impact of science or mankind dealing with science, whether it be 2001 a space odyssey or Invasion of the body snatchers.
It's not so shallow as that. Setting does not make or break science fiction.
The setting is the stage for the story and themes to develop.
It's the story and themes in conjunction with the setting that help make it science fiction. There is nothing about Star Wars that relies upon the setting because the setting could be changed without changing the story. Make light sabers swords, and the death star some sort of large incendiary device.
to YOU. that's what it is to YOU. Everyone else on the planet believes otherwise.
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
Well, my own definition is supported by Isaac Asimov and Ben Bova. So I would say I am the lesser of the three.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Star Wars is very heavily influenced by fantasy. The lightsabre is a magic sword. The force draws upon the light and dark forces, very similar to holy and dark magic.
A lightsaber is not a magic sword. It is a technological weapon used by various pseudo religious orders based on premises not of Holy/Dark, Good/Evil, but on Order and what Order views as Chaos.
The Force has a biological explanation - through training, one is able to utilize the connection to the Force.
It is not about "Magic"... they are more technological religious zealots than they are wizards and witches.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
Well, my own definition is supported by Isaac Asimov and Ben Bova. So I would say I am the lesser of the three.
No, it's not. Where did you get the idea that Isaac Asimov shares your opinion? Please show me. I've read a lot of stuff from him and never saw what you are describing.
As far as I know, he never had an opinion on what constituted science fiction. He did however offer his own version of it.
Star Wars is very heavily influenced by fantasy. The lightsabre is a magic sword. The force draws upon the light and dark forces, very similar to holy and dark magic.
A lightsaber is not a magic sword. It is a technological weapon used by various pseudo religious orders based on premises not of Holy/Dark, Good/Evil, but on Order and what Order views as Chaos.
The Force has a biological explanation - through training, one is able to utilize the connection to the Force.
It is not about "Magic"... they are more technological religious zealots than they are wizards and witches.
Not to mention the force.
Midi-chlorians (also spelled "midi-clorians" or "midichlorians") are a microorganism in the fictional Star Warsgalaxy, first mentioned in The Phantom Menace. They are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the Force.[6] They are symbionts with all other living things and without them life could not exist. The Jedi have learned how to listen to and coordinate the midi-chlorians. While every living being thus has a connection to the Force, one must have a high enough concentration of midi-chlorians in one's cells in order to be a Jedi or aSith.[7][8]
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
Well, my own definition is supported by Isaac Asimov and Ben Bova. So I would say I am the lesser of the three.
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
Well, my own definition is supported by Isaac Asimov and Ben Bova. So I would say I am the lesser of the three.
In general, differences of the definitions can be attributed to various subgenres of science fiction.
Again, you do not say that a dog is a Yorkshire Terrier, thus a Daschund is not a dog.
Well that's a great find, thank you.
We can also see what I've been saying popping up more often than not:
Definitions of Science Fiction ( Sci-Fi )
Wikipedia, SF : "Science Fiction is a broad genre of fiction that often involves speculations based on current science or technology. It is commonly abbreviated as SF or sci-fi. Science fiction is found in books, art, television, movies, games, theater, and other media."
Arthur C. Clarke : "One of the biggest roles of science fiction is to prepare people to accept the future without pain and to encourage a flexibility of mind. Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns and detective stories."
Barry N. Malzberg : "Science fiction is 'that branch of fiction that deals with the possible effects of an altered technology or social system on mankind in an imagined future, an altered present, or an alternative past'." [top]
Theodore Sturgeon : "A good science-fiction story is a story about human beings, with a human problem, and a human solution, that would not have happened at all without its science content." [top]
Philip K. Dick : "Science fiction involves a suspension of disbelief which is different than that involved with fantasy. In fantasy, you never go back to believing that there are trolls, unicorns, witches, and so on. But in science fiction, you read it, and it's not true now, but there are things which are not true now which are going to be someday." [top]
Isaac Asimov : "Modern science fiction is the only form of literature that consistently considers the nature of the changes that face us, the possible consequences, and the possible solutions. That branch of literature which is concerned with the impact of scientific advance upon human beings." [top]
Amit Goswami : "Science Fiction is that class of fiction which contains the currents of change in science and society. It concerns itself with the critique, extension, revision, and conspiracy of revolution, all directed against static scientific paradigms. Its goal is to prompt a paradigm shift to a new view that will be more responsive and true to nature." [top]
Wikipedia, Hard SF : " Hard Science Fiction is a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, or on scientific accuracy, or on both." [top]
There is nothing I'm saying that is not supported by this and others on this list.
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
If you take gone with the wind, put the north and south on different planets and have both armies using lasers it does not make it science fiction.
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People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
No, you are trying to dismiss something that falls into the science fiction category by inventing your own definition.
There is more to Star Wars ideas than just setting. Add that to the list of things you are ignoring.
I am not ignoring anything.
As I've said multiple times (and perhaps you are ignoring?) take the story and characters of Star Wars and put them in some medieval settings and other than changing some props it's the same story.
The only iffy part of that is the force, which , if you remember, was originally a mystical force. This could have easily fit into any fantasy or heck, even historical fiction. Of course then Lucas adds the idea of the midichorians as being a driving factor of the force and that does muck it up.
So again, if I take gone with the wind, put the north on one planet, south on another, give them light sabers and lasers and space ships to fight with but do not change the motivations of the characters or the story, is it science ficiton?
Becuase I strongly suspect you will say "yes".
Please feel free to look at some of the quotes I drew from the website. Though I also strongly suspect that you would prefer this one which I will include:
Tom Shippey : "Science fiction is hard to define because it is the literature of change and it changes while you are trying to define it." [top]
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What your saying by your defintion "Science ficiton IS about man's relationship to science and what science brings." is a lot mor enarrow than the defintions quoted by others and yourself from different sources.Star Wars does indeed qualify as SciFi under those criteria as it does dela with imagined innovations in science such as space travle adn evne light sabers(whixh are actually scientifically viable using plasma but we don't have the technology to make a powerful enough and small enough power source for) nowhere does it say that technology or man's relationship to it has to be the central premise for the plot.
Ok, but listen to what I'm saying "star wars is not about lasers or space travel".
It's not "about" that.
It "has" that but it's not "about" that. And that is where the difference is.
Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
Well, my own definition is supported by Isaac Asimov and Ben Bova. So I would say I am the lesser of the three.
In general, differences of the definitions can be attributed to various subgenres of science fiction.
Again, you do not say that a dog is a Yorkshire Terrier, thus a Daschund is not a dog.
Well that's a great find, thank you.
We can also see what I've been saying popping up more often than not:
Definitions of Science Fiction ( Sci-Fi )
Wikipedia, SF : "Science Fiction is a broad genre of fiction that often involves speculations based on current science or technology. It is commonly abbreviated as SF or sci-fi. Science fiction is found in books, art, television, movies, games, theater, and other media."
Arthur C. Clarke : "One of the biggest roles of science fiction is to prepare people to accept the future without pain and to encourage a flexibility of mind. Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns and detective stories."
Barry N. Malzberg : "Science fiction is 'that branch of fiction that deals with the possible effects of an altered technology or social system on mankind in an imagined future, an altered present, or an alternative past'." [top]
Theodore Sturgeon : "A good science-fiction story is a story about human beings, with a human problem, and a human solution, that would not have happened at all without its science content." [top]
Philip K. Dick : "Science fiction involves a suspension of disbelief which is different than that involved with fantasy. In fantasy, you never go back to believing that there are trolls, unicorns, witches, and so on. But in science fiction, you read it, and it's not true now, but there are things which are not true now which are going to be someday." [top]
Isaac Asimov : "Modern science fiction is the only form of literature that consistently considers the nature of the changes that face us, the possible consequences, and the possible solutions. That branch of literature which is concerned with the impact of scientific advance upon human beings." [top]
Amit Goswami : "Science Fiction is that class of fiction which contains the currents of change in science and society. It concerns itself with the critique, extension, revision, and conspiracy of revolution, all directed against static scientific paradigms. Its goal is to prompt a paradigm shift to a new view that will be more responsive and true to nature." [top]
Wikipedia, Hard SF : " Hard Science Fiction is a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, or on scientific accuracy, or on both." [top]
There is nothing I'm saying that is not supported by this and others on this list.
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
If you take gone with the wind, put the north and south on different planets and have both armies using lasers it does not make it science fiction.
So by your definition, a pseudo biographical piece on the sociological effects of the steam engine on farming involving the fictional Farmer Joe and the other inhabitants of a midwestern agricultural community would be Sci-Fi...?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
So by your definition, a pseudo biographical piece on the sociological effects of the steam engine on farming involving the fictional Farmer Joe and the other inhabitants of a midwestern agricultural community would be Sci-Fi...?
If it was done before the steam engine was invented then "yes".
see?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
No, you are trying to dismiss something that falls into the science fiction category by inventing your own definition.
There is more to Star Wars ideas than just setting. Add that to the list of things you are ignoring.
I am not ignoring anything.
As I've said multiple times (and perhaps you are ignoring?) take the story and characters of Star Wars and put them in some medieval settings and other than changing some props it's the same story.
The only iffy part of that is the force, which , if you remember, was originally a mystical force. This could have easily fit into any fantasy or heck, even historical fiction. Of course then Lucas adds the idea of the midichorians as being a driving factor of the force and that does muck it up.
So again, if I take gone with the wind, put the north on one planet, south on another, give them light sabers and lasers and space ships to fight with but do not change the motivations of the characters or the story, is it science ficiton?
Becuase I strongly suspect you will say "yes".
Please feel free to look at some of the quotes I drew from the website. Though I also strongly suspect that you would prefer this one which I will include:
Tom Shippey : "Science fiction is hard to define because it is the literature of change and it changes while you are trying to define it." [top]
Take "I Robot" and put everything into a high fantasy setting. Turn the robots into another race of creatures (constructs will do) that are being alienates/used for slavery.
Bam, "I Robot" is now fantasy with a moral twist. You can shift moral arguments through any genre using story. The fact is, Star Wars IS sci-fi.
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
No, you are trying to dismiss something that falls into the science fiction category by inventing your own definition.
There is more to Star Wars ideas than just setting. Add that to the list of things you are ignoring.
I am not ignoring anything.
As I've said multiple times (and perhaps you are ignoring?) take the story and characters of Star Wars and put them in some medieval settings and other than changing some props it's the same story.
The only iffy part of that is the force, which , if you remember, was originally a mystical force. This could have easily fit into any fantasy or heck, even historical fiction. Of course then Lucas adds the idea of the midichorians as being a driving factor of the force and that does muck it up.
So again, if I take gone with the wind, put the north on one planet, south on another, give them light sabers and lasers and space ships to fight with but do not change the motivations of the characters or the story, is it science ficiton?
Becuase I strongly suspect you will say "yes".
Please feel free to look at some of the quotes I drew from the website. Though I also strongly suspect that you would prefer this one which I will include:
Tom Shippey : "Science fiction is hard to define because it is the literature of change and it changes while you are trying to define it." [top]
What you are offering as the definition of Science Fiction...is just a variation of these. Much as you want to suggest you can break down other stories to change the various elements - at the end of the day, you can do the same with Science Fiction.
Somebody on here offered The Forever War as a great work of Science Fiction... which is funny, because it is a Vietnam War allegory... which can further be broken down into the various dramatic situations that comrpise a story.
There are only so many core stories - the rest is condiments.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
So by your definition, a pseudo biographical piece on the sociological effects of the steam engine on farming involving the fictional Farmer Joe and the other inhabitants of a midwestern agricultural community would be Sci-Fi...?
If it was done before the steam engine was invented then "yes".
see?
So your definition would not just be about the sociological effects of technology - it would have to be about a futuristic technology - something that has not been invented yet, yet something that is plausible?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
No, you are trying to dismiss something that falls into the science fiction category by inventing your own definition.
There is more to Star Wars ideas than just setting. Add that to the list of things you are ignoring.
I am not ignoring anything.
As I've said multiple times (and perhaps you are ignoring?) take the story and characters of Star Wars and put them in some medieval settings and other than changing some props it's the same story.
The only iffy part of that is the force, which , if you remember, was originally a mystical force. This could have easily fit into any fantasy or heck, even historical fiction. Of course then Lucas adds the idea of the midichorians as being a driving factor of the force and that does muck it up.
So again, if I take gone with the wind, put the north on one planet, south on another, give them light sabers and lasers and space ships to fight with but do not change the motivations of the characters or the story, is it science ficiton?
Becuase I strongly suspect you will say "yes".
Please feel free to look at some of the quotes I drew from the website. Though I also strongly suspect that you would prefer this one which I will include:
Tom Shippey : "Science fiction is hard to define because it is the literature of change and it changes while you are trying to define it." [top]
Take "I Robot" and putt everything into a high fantasy setting. Turn the robots into another race of creatures that are being alienates/used for slavery.
Bam, "I Robot" is now fantasy with a moral twist. You can shift moral arguments through any genre using story. The fact is, Star Wars IS sci-fi.
Actually Star Wars is Science Fantasy. It borrows elements from both genre's. As Rod Serling put it "science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible." and Jedi's using the force tend to fall into the realm of Fantasy as the things Jedi and Syth are capable of are impossible, not implausible.
Actually Star Wars is Science Fantasy. It borrows elements from both genre's. As Rod Serling put it "science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible." and Jedi's using the force tend to fall into the realm of Fantasy as the things Jedi and Syth are capable of are impossible, not implausible.
The force is in essence magic.
Unless you actually READ about the force.
Perhaps it's time you looked up how the force actually works according to this work of science fiction.
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
No, you are trying to dismiss something that falls into the science fiction category by inventing your own definition.
There is more to Star Wars ideas than just setting. Add that to the list of things you are ignoring.
I am not ignoring anything.
As I've said multiple times (and perhaps you are ignoring?) take the story and characters of Star Wars and put them in some medieval settings and other than changing some props it's the same story.
The only iffy part of that is the force, which , if you remember, was originally a mystical force. This could have easily fit into any fantasy or heck, even historical fiction. Of course then Lucas adds the idea of the midichorians as being a driving factor of the force and that does muck it up.
So again, if I take gone with the wind, put the north on one planet, south on another, give them light sabers and lasers and space ships to fight with but do not change the motivations of the characters or the story, is it science ficiton?
Becuase I strongly suspect you will say "yes".
Please feel free to look at some of the quotes I drew from the website. Though I also strongly suspect that you would prefer this one which I will include:
Tom Shippey : "Science fiction is hard to define because it is the literature of change and it changes while you are trying to define it." [top]
Take "I Robot" and putt everything into a high fantasy setting. Turn the robots into another race of creatures that are being alienates/used for slavery.
Bam, "I Robot" is now fantasy with a moral twist. You can shift moral arguments through any genre using story. The fact is, Star Wars IS sci-fi.
lol, i think you need to rethink that.
No it wouldn't be fantasy because the story is not about that. The story about I-robot, the reason it was written is to show man's relationship to what is considered a tool, pretty much a fancy toaster. It is then discovered that this toaster, that man created (important part there) has autonomous thought.
the key elements there are that man created something to be a tool, a machine (very important) but this tool might be more than a tool , more than a machine. And "how does manking deal with that".
Of course, we would have to alter that to really make one think:
Put it in a fantasy setting and have it that through alchemy mankind creates a homonculous as a tool However, these homonculi turn out to have autonymous thought. How does mankind deal with this?
So is that actually a fantasy novel? I'm not sure. I'll have to think about that.
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Comments
"A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background."
Hmmm... it's got space travel, life on other planets, that form "part of the plot or background". Nothing says it has to be ABOUT that.
Your definition is simply too narrow. Perhaps a reflection of the mind from which it came?
If you have a simple story about a person being stranded on a planet and he finds a robot. The robot does absolutely nothing but he talks to it daily for a whole year until he is rescued. Is that story science fiction or one about survival or one about psychology ?
Then go do the math on the worldwide numbers and you'll see something very close to this list. Have fun
Yes and most Fnatasy is not about Swords and Magic but relatiosnhips between peopel and nations and th enature of good and evil,responsiblity and consequences.You can break down most genres and strip them of there trappings and come back to the central tennets of all storytelling in human history.
Star Wars is very heavily influenced by fantasy. The lightsabre is a magic sword. The force draws upon the light and dark forces, very similar to holy and dark magic.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
What you put in highlighed in yellow is not what you said. What you put in yellow is why they said what you said was wrong.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
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Your "difference" is your own creation. You prefer to ignore the breadth of the genre by creating your own definition.
That is true, it has space travel and life on other planets.
but what people are equating to "science fiction" is setting. So if i was to take "The Lord of the rings", put dwarves and hobbits and elves on different planets, make the one ring a giant mind control device it would then be science fiction?
Remember "forms part of the plot or background". But the rest is the impact of science or mankind dealing with science, whether it be 2001 a space odyssey or Invasion of the body snatchers.
It's not so shallow as that. Setting does not make or break science fiction.
The setting is the stage for the story and themes to develop.
It's the story and themes in conjunction with the setting that help make it science fiction. There is nothing about Star Wars that relies upon the setting because the setting could be changed without changing the story. Make light sabers swords, and the death star some sort of large incendiary device.
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to YOU. that's what it is to YOU. Everyone else on the planet believes otherwise.
Well, my own definition is supported by Isaac Asimov and Ben Bova. So I would say I am the lesser of the three.
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A lightsaber is not a magic sword. It is a technological weapon used by various pseudo religious orders based on premises not of Holy/Dark, Good/Evil, but on Order and what Order views as Chaos.
The Force has a biological explanation - through training, one is able to utilize the connection to the Force.
It is not about "Magic"... they are more technological religious zealots than they are wizards and witches.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
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No, it's not. Where did you get the idea that Isaac Asimov shares your opinion? Please show me. I've read a lot of stuff from him and never saw what you are describing.
As far as I know, he never had an opinion on what constituted science fiction. He did however offer his own version of it.
Not to mention the force.
Midi-chlorians (also spelled "midi-clorians" or "midichlorians") are a microorganism in the fictional Star Wars galaxy, first mentioned in The Phantom Menace. They are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the Force.[6] They are symbionts with all other living things and without them life could not exist. The Jedi have learned how to listen to and coordinate the midi-chlorians. While every living being thus has a connection to the Force, one must have a high enough concentration of midi-chlorians in one's cells in order to be a Jedi or aSith.[7][8]
Creator George Lucas says that the midi-chlorians are based on the endosymbiotic theory.[9]
Here is a nifty list of authors with varying definitions... http://www.sciencefiction.info/science-fiction-definition.htm
In general, differences of the definitions can be attributed to various subgenres of science fiction.
Again, you do not say that a dog is a Yorkshire Terrier, thus a Daschund is not a dog.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Well that's a great find, thank you.
We can also see what I've been saying popping up more often than not:
Definitions of Science Fiction ( Sci-Fi )
Wikipedia, SF : "Science Fiction is a broad genre of fiction that often involves speculations based on current science or technology. It is commonly abbreviated as SF or sci-fi. Science fiction is found in books, art, television, movies, games, theater, and other media."
Arthur C. Clarke : "One of the biggest roles of science fiction is to prepare people to accept the future without pain and to encourage a flexibility of mind. Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns and detective stories."
Barry N. Malzberg : "Science fiction is 'that branch of fiction that deals with the possible effects of an altered technology or social system on mankind in an imagined future, an altered present, or an alternative past'." [top]
Theodore Sturgeon : "A good science-fiction story is a story about human beings, with a human problem, and a human solution, that would not have happened at all without its science content." [top]
Philip K. Dick : "Science fiction involves a suspension of disbelief which is different than that involved with fantasy. In fantasy, you never go back to believing that there are trolls, unicorns, witches, and so on. But in science fiction, you read it, and it's not true now, but there are things which are not true now which are going to be someday." [top]
Isaac Asimov : "Modern science fiction is the only form of literature that consistently considers the nature of the changes that face us, the possible consequences, and the possible solutions. That branch of literature which is concerned with the impact of scientific advance upon human beings." [top]
Amit Goswami : "Science Fiction is that class of fiction which contains the currents of change in science and society. It concerns itself with the critique, extension, revision, and conspiracy of revolution, all directed against static scientific paradigms. Its goal is to prompt a paradigm shift to a new view that will be more responsive and true to nature." [top]
Wikipedia, Hard SF : " Hard Science Fiction is a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, or on scientific accuracy, or on both." [top]
There is nothing I'm saying that is not supported by this and others on this list.
People are trying to equate setting with science fiction and they are forgetting that there is more to a story than just setting.
If you take gone with the wind, put the north and south on different planets and have both armies using lasers it does not make it science fiction.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No, you are trying to dismiss something that falls into the science fiction category by inventing your own definition.
There is more to Star Wars ideas than just setting. Add that to the list of things you are ignoring.
I am not ignoring anything.
As I've said multiple times (and perhaps you are ignoring?) take the story and characters of Star Wars and put them in some medieval settings and other than changing some props it's the same story.
The only iffy part of that is the force, which , if you remember, was originally a mystical force. This could have easily fit into any fantasy or heck, even historical fiction. Of course then Lucas adds the idea of the midichorians as being a driving factor of the force and that does muck it up.
So again, if I take gone with the wind, put the north on one planet, south on another, give them light sabers and lasers and space ships to fight with but do not change the motivations of the characters or the story, is it science ficiton?
Becuase I strongly suspect you will say "yes".
Please feel free to look at some of the quotes I drew from the website. Though I also strongly suspect that you would prefer this one which I will include:
Tom Shippey : "Science fiction is hard to define because it is the literature of change and it changes while you are trying to define it." [top]
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So by your definition, a pseudo biographical piece on the sociological effects of the steam engine on farming involving the fictional Farmer Joe and the other inhabitants of a midwestern agricultural community would be Sci-Fi...?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
If it was done before the steam engine was invented then "yes".
see?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Take "I Robot" and put everything into a high fantasy setting. Turn the robots into another race of creatures (constructs will do) that are being alienates/used for slavery.
Bam, "I Robot" is now fantasy with a moral twist. You can shift moral arguments through any genre using story. The fact is, Star Wars IS sci-fi.
You have a problem with your argument here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirty-Six_Dramatic_Situations
What you are offering as the definition of Science Fiction...is just a variation of these. Much as you want to suggest you can break down other stories to change the various elements - at the end of the day, you can do the same with Science Fiction.
Somebody on here offered The Forever War as a great work of Science Fiction... which is funny, because it is a Vietnam War allegory... which can further be broken down into the various dramatic situations that comrpise a story.
There are only so many core stories - the rest is condiments.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
So your definition would not just be about the sociological effects of technology - it would have to be about a futuristic technology - something that has not been invented yet, yet something that is plausible?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Actually Star Wars is Science Fantasy. It borrows elements from both genre's. As Rod Serling put it "science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible." and Jedi's using the force tend to fall into the realm of Fantasy as the things Jedi and Syth are capable of are impossible, not implausible.
The force is in essence magic.
Unless you actually READ about the force.
Perhaps it's time you looked up how the force actually works according to this work of science fiction.
lol, i think you need to rethink that.
No it wouldn't be fantasy because the story is not about that. The story about I-robot, the reason it was written is to show man's relationship to what is considered a tool, pretty much a fancy toaster. It is then discovered that this toaster, that man created (important part there) has autonomous thought.
the key elements there are that man created something to be a tool, a machine (very important) but this tool might be more than a tool , more than a machine. And "how does manking deal with that".
Of course, we would have to alter that to really make one think:
Put it in a fantasy setting and have it that through alchemy mankind creates a homonculous as a tool However, these homonculi turn out to have autonymous thought. How does mankind deal with this?
So is that actually a fantasy novel? I'm not sure. I'll have to think about that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo