Not to mention the only place u see negative stuff is on mmorpg blog lol. I have looked at the sw tor forums and those are pretty much positive. The reviews of hands on and people who cover games has been good.
The only place u see negaitivity is here. and ea louse. So i dobut the 1 pct of u who tend to make up the posters here scare bioware or ea.
they have there vision they are going to do it that way and when they release in 6 months if they dont get alot fo sales and subs and people start leaving in droves them maybe they panic but right now there is no need to panic.
these are experianced developers who realize there is always a subset of gamers u can never please. They arent gonna overreact to u guys. U just dont mean that much to them. They arent after your dollar they are after those who actually wanna play thisg ame and thinnk the stuff they have seen is cool.
these are experianced developers who realize there is always a subset of gamers u can never please. They arent gonna overreact to u guys. U just dont mean that much to them. They arent after your dollar they are after those who actually wanna play thisg ame and thinnk the stuff they have seen is cool.
these are experianced developers who realize there is always a subset of gamers u can never please. They arent gonna overreact to u guys. U just dont mean that much to them. They arent after your dollar they are after those who actually wanna play thisg ame and thinnk the stuff they have seen is cool.
This! So much truth in this.
Very much agree with this aswell.
If your being negative at this stage your not going to buy the game, so it's not going to matter what Bioware do, your still not going to buy the game, hence why should anyone care?
Those that find this an appealing game will go out and get the game, no matter what is posted on this or other forums, heck look at the bad publicity surrounding Darkfall, yet it is still here and getting better write ups.
Oh come on even if you do not agree or disagree vehemently you have to admire a maverick.
i think i preferred Iceman :P
i am actually really intigued about how this game will play out.
the one disadvantage to being story driven, that i can think off atm, is how do you keep players playing after the story has been told?
you cant keep a story going indefinitely or it'll just become stale and boring.
i look forward to seeing how this is done, as TOR will be the first non sandbox MMO i will be really having a go at.
i'm sure that Bioware has things in mind, and i'm sure EA will have asked this question and have been satisfied with the answer though
The question really is how long can the same old, same old, keep people playing game after game, from months to years? I honestly think we've already hit that plateau in MMO development. Rainding, guild PVP, endless gear runs, and endgame dungeons have all been done to death. We've been playing the same game for years, how long before enough is enough?
What I'd like to see is a story that continues and evolves, new archs thrown in, new twists and new events that happen over the years would be something new and i'd welcome it. A story can end and must end, but a new one can begin. I can't help but think this is the direction BW will take with endgame in TOR. Whats the point in so much story if it does end never to begin again?
But that's the thing, you are witnessing an evolution of sorts. It's just slow moving in comparison to the technological leaps that we see.
Also, evolving storylines? Great. Probably takes time. except that some vocal players will scream and rant when a game isn't released in 3 years or less. And if they do release it then they scream that it should have been developed more as it has issues. And I agree with you, that is exactly what bioware will most likely do, develop the story over time while allowing players to do other things in the interim.
As far as "doing things to death", i think there are games far older than all video games that have the exact same game play for over a hundred years but people still play them. I don't think we need to invent new ways to play mmo's every few years but instead we need to build on what works and tweak what doesn't.
We also need to recognize that all mmo's do not have to incorporate the same things and can deviate to cater to different tastes.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You're probably right Sovrath they are story tellers after all. So they will continue to spin tales and that is not a bad game actually. I would not mind playing it if they did that. I could indeed be occupied for years to come if the yarn they spin is worth the admission ticket.
I just got done reading the article in star wars insider on this game with lead game designer. 1. question asked was do u play to have expansions and stuff. His answer was we havent announced anything yet but we certainly want this game to be succesful for years and years even decades. So yea an mmo is an evolving world where u have to create new content to stay releveant.
so bioware does intend to expand on this story over time. Also i think if they are planning on having to do expacs then the negativity they hear from a very small part of the mmo community obviously doesnt bother them.
It also sounds like the space combat will have diffrent kinds of difficulty. He mentions there are missions that are easier for those who dont have great hand eye coordination. There are others aimed for the hardcore type players who are really good at space combat. So not sure if the more difficult missions will have more freedom or not.
I liked the article though was a nice interview. With tor lead designer.
I think outside of inherently negative forums like the ones here at MMORPG, most of the response Bioware has received has actually been very positive. So, no. I don't think they are upset about it.
However, with so much money riding on the project, I'm sure they are at least nervous about how it will all turn out. Anyone in their right mind would be.
Only now? It has been since that since 2007. That was the standard by then: complete open world design where you can go on any top of any mountain and explore everywhere. That doesn't even mean flying per se.
Ehm, they stated themselves that they had to redesign old world parts for CATA to make it possible to fly everywhere without goofy stuff, to make it fully 3D everywhere. Just going by what they're saying.
(snips)
I cut out the rest, it was your own vague speculation anyway and I see you missed the point what I was talking about, namely the effect of polish in gameplay in former MMORPG's, and the lesser effect of vast game worlds as SWG and Vanguard had, examples that you conveniently forgot to mention: worlds that were btw far vaster and more open than WoW was.
Originally posted by darkehawke
Most of this argument is being carried out by misinformed people. No-one knows this game will suck monkey balls, but people say it will, and they are ridiculed by people who think this game will be the best star wars game ever and these people are equally clueless.
i play SWG and have done so for a while, and i notice people assuming a lot of SWG vets have been spreading hate for TOR. i, myself can not see the appeal of TOR. i'm very much a sandbox mmo gamer. however my opinion is not reflective of a majority, and there are lots of people who would find this style of gameplay more suited to them. A lot of "SWG Vets" i see on these forums are just opinionated fools who cant get over the NGE. the fact is, most swg elders who still play SWG freely admits the current game is now better then Pre CU ever was. i dont take the opinions of someone, who hasnt played the game he's commenting on, seriously at all.
As for final opinion on the game. I'm not going to be stupid enough to say that this game will fail or succeed at this stage in time. All i will say is, based on what i've seen and heard, I will not like this game, but that does not mean i will still not like this game once its finished and i've actually tried it.
Bottom line is, none of us knows what TOR will be like as none of us have tried it.
A balanced, sensible opinion. I like it.
Originally posted by jaxsundane
A vast majority of the complaining is coming from former SWG players who wear the term "SWG vet" like a badge of honor and then sandbox players are next in line to thrash the game. Anyone who reads this site or sites like it can attest that it is the vocal minority posting anyway so that statement does not imply that everyone who likes sandbox games or SWG specifically are going to dump on this game.
From what I've seen so far, I'd say it's people from those groups and people who're rooting heavily for another - upcoming or existing - MMORPG.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Not sure what to add to this thread... maybe as a SW fan and one of the first followers of TOR, even before it went public, I can say I'm quite bored with LA/Bioware lately.
The lack of real infos added to all the blatant restrictions, made me wish the game would be out yet, so I can put a finger on my disappointment and move either back to older MMO or to GW2.
I will buy TOR collector's edition for sure, and set it next to AoC and SWG CE ones on my shelves. I might be wrong but I see a pattern here, sadly.
I think outside of inherently negative forums like the ones here at MMORPG, most of the response Bioware has received has actually been very positive. So, no. I don't think they are upset about it.
However, with so much money riding on the project, I'm sure they are at least nervous about how it will all turn out. Anyone in their right mind would be.
Then you haven't paid attention. The SWTOR boards are ~75% negative on the average no information week. When some actual information is released it gets a bit better but not much. Almost every MMO forum that has a thread about SWTOR has people at least sitting on the fence and I'm seeing a bunch of negativity there as well.
As for the people talking about how great Bioware is. Here's some fun stuff to read about the experienced developers at Bioware Austin:
"I think it reflects the poor state of the programming department in Austin. Many people there have been very unhappy with their director of IT"
"Frequently comments can be heard, from full time employees, about how a person's work is below caliber because they are a contractor, but yet this company, in Austin, relies mostly on contractors to get their game finished.
From what I saw, during my time there, the contractors were doing the same/better work in nine out of ten cases"
"I worked in the programming department. If IQs were assigned to social skills, I'd say Bioware scores an average of 11, where normal would be 100. There is a definite "follow the leader" mentality here. That might be good if the leader were worthy of being followed, but in the case of our department, let me just say 'no comment.' Code is shoddy. Ego trumps quality or skill. The higher up the chain you go, the more shrill the whining. I am considering looking for a new job, but the economy is bad, so I will just hunker down until things turn around and then, maybe, I will get a job with a game company that has a quality programming department."
"As a programmer, I found the quality of their programming to be very poor. I have avoided letting people know that I worked for Bioware because I do not want my programming skills associated with the lack of quality I witnessed there.
Bioware, in addition to hiring temp works as the bulk of their productive force, also outsources a great deal of their work to India, Russia, and the Philippines. I was told that it wasn't important to get things right because they'd outsource the last 10% of the work. This, of course, encourages poor programming.
I also left Bioware with the impression that they lack creativity. They borrow ideas and styles from other companies rather than inventing their own."
It's all unconfirmed but that's the thing about it, nothing will ever be confirmed due to contracts, NDA's, needing the job, etc. Take it all with a grain of salt but the more I look the more I find that it looks like Bioware Austin isn't the shining pinnacle of MMO design many though it would be.
One thing that is 100% true and people here keep forgeting; THIS ISN"T THE BIOWARE YOU KNOW AND LOVE. The majority of the people who make up Bioware Austin are not from the Bioware teams that made KotOR, ME, ME2, or DA:O. Whether they people they hired are good/bad or the team cohesion is good/bad remains to be seen. You cannot judge SWTOR based on their other studios work, it's a whole new team with a few Old Bioware members mixed in.
I will also say this to pre-empt the Bioware Fans, this in no way means that SWTOR won't be a good game. It is just an attempt at making people who have pledged their undying loyalty to Bioware to at least look at things in a more realistic light.
It's all unconfirmed but that's the thing about it, nothing will ever be confirmed due to contracts, NDA's, needing the job, etc. Take it all with a grain of salt but the more I look the more I find that it looks like Bioware Austin isn't the shining pinnacle of MMO design many though it would be.
One thing that is 100% true and people here keep forgeting; THIS ISN"T THE BIOWARE YOU KNOW AND LOVE. The majority of the people who make up Bioware Austin are not from the Bioware teams that made KotOR, ME, ME2, or DA:O. Whether they people they hired are good/bad or the team cohesion is good/bad remains to be seen. You cannot judge SWTOR based on their other studios work, it's a whole new team with a few Old Bioware members mixed in.
I will also say this to pre-empt the Bioware Fans, this in no way means that SWTOR won't be a good game. It is just an attempt at making people who have pledged their undying loyalty to Bioware to at least look at things in a more realistic light.
At first I thought the posting of irrelevant (to the thread) information as that link was just another hate bashing attempt or sensationalism, so I'm glad that you added this part to your post.
Ok, sounds fair. Different dev team composition may lead to different decisions and talent mix.
However, to add a sidenote, the same has been stated a lot of times about Blizzard, their current dev teams not being the same as the ones that stood at the base of their successes as Starcraft, Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. While I find the newest work of the last few years not at the same level as what Blizzard was doing 5-10 years ago, they're still doing alright.
Besides, if I understand it correctly, DA:O and the ME series are also developed by separate teams (which shows), but still they're of pretty high quality.
So we'll just have to see how this team performs, the overall line of Bioware games so far has been good and qualitatively high, that's what all their games up till now have had in common.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ok seems enough bashing around , will tell you what i know from bioware fans .
Bioware fans are story driven fans , as long a story spark a emotion , either trough deus ex machina , sexual means what ever and is replayable with different optionsand ending , they are sold .
Simple huh !! SWOTR seems to deliver that .
So done deal bioware fans are happy with a mmo that delivers those options .
They are not happy if there is no story involved .
Sorry most of us are from a age where we dont like fast pace actions , and while we slowly adapt the mmo is just like wow acceptable ease to play .
Especially when we can get help from a pet (called companion)
Now honestly like previous posters says , forum community even on the official SWOTR forums , doesn´t represent the bioware community , yes the developers and people assigned to the product has changed .
Sadly EA bought it up , but EA is not going to go trough a failure like interplay did .
Bioware is known to make product that takes time , and then delivers , lets take dragon age , is graphic stellar ?
No it isn´t sorry i think they would had made more bucks when they made it less realistic more cartoonishe .
But still it sold world wide enough , to justify the long term developement , well about the hype .
I guess the hype will start up after cataclysme has been released , sorry any good marketing company worth there salt.
Knows there is no use throwing money when the product is not done , especially when a giant like blizzard has the spotlight.
ITs no use fighting cataclysme , it will sell millions worldwide , even if beter analyst says its the same game .
It doesn´t matter to WoW player , they have been nerfed big time , the game has reseted , that everything will repeat itself.
It will still sell , about the negativity i really dont get it , 300 million after reading ea louse rant .
You know what i think of him ? FAIL he should have spoken up during war hammer development .
You know why i could predict warhammer mmo failed ? cause its GW community product .
Almost all GW community online are rubbishe , honestly you seen a GW community that doesnt whine all day ?
I love mmorpg forums cause it has good and bad , but stop selling nonesense about a product , when you dont even know what the fan base is about , and the community of bioware is about .
I dunno what the OP is talking about each video looking progressively worse . I'll admit I've not seen them all but from what I've seen thus far I could'nt see anything wrong with them . Also a video of gameplays shows nothing about the game . Age of Conan looked fantastic compared to WoW in video form but that does'nt translate to the smoothness of the client . This kind of thing happens to EVERY single game in these forums . To date most games have been a little wanting so its always a safe bet to say this or that game will fail its always rubbish and based on rumour like this thread . This kind of trash will continue till a games released and then we'll all get a clearer picture .
When it all comes down to it . Biowares games in my opinion are normally pretty good . StarWars is a massive franchise which even if a half decent game is released will do well .
Threads likes this don't really help and although they arn't bad to waste a few mins looking through the all have one thing in common.
These days: IF you bring a space opera ... you need the full swing of open world designs on all planets and make it a full open space design.
I think that would take a little long. Full content in space and on many planets? look how long it takes for just "one" space game or just "one" regular land based mmo.
That's why they should have left the Space part out till after launch. And fully focussed on the ground based (or rather planet based) part of the game.
SWG didn't had space at launch and it wasn't bothering anyone either. We all enjoyed the heck out of the ground game. Despite it's flaws and issues. It was one of the best MMO experiences I've ever had.
When Jump to Lightspeed launched. It really added something substantial. And again. I enjoyed the heck out of it. Again despite all the issues it caused with the ground based performance.
It would have been far better to leave Space to a future expansion and do it right. Then just tag it on as they do now. Just for the sake of having it.
Just my 2 cents.
I have to agree with you on that. Build off quality and add more later. Smart approach.
EA and Bioware are too big to care. This reminds me of the film Heaven's Gate. It was made by great people and was even a tollerable film but it cost so much to make that it destroyed the studio ( UA?) that made it anyway.
I rarely have anything good to say about WOW and Blizzard but at least they care about their fans.
The only thing is how cartoony the graphics are, but I guess they are trying to copy WoW's art style. I would really like to see a dark realistic looking Star Wars universe. Something along the lines of AoC graphics. I just feel the cartoon graphics were popular 5 years ago.
The only thing is how cartoony the graphics are, but I guess they are trying to copy WoW's art style. I would really like to see a dark realistic looking Star Wars universe. Something along the lines of AoC graphics. I just feel the cartoon graphics were popular 5 years ago.
This has to do with couple issues i think
1 Lucas arts , there cartoons are made for the newer generations .
2 Also to target a wider market , you cannot have too state of the art graphics , remember not everybody has up to the date computer ,
3 More people like cartoonishe looks then realistic looks >.< i dont know why , but its simply that way .
EA has made 300 million dollar investment in this game. They hired one of the best studios in gaming. And have one of the best settings in popular culture.
Yet the negativity that is starting to surround this game (not only on this site) grows every day.
Now I am not sure about EA. But if I was in their shoes I would slowly start to panic.
The game is probably finished by now (and is only tested and fine tuned at this moment) Yet its clear that they have nothing good to show.
Every new video (like the latest one of imperial agent) looks worse than previous , and only puts more fuel to the fire.
I think they clearly dont have nothing better to show too.
And If they do have something better to show. What are they waiting for ?
For game rep to crash and burn so it would rise from ashes like a phoenix ? ( <- that is irony)
There is similarity here with APB. Great ideas , great budget , skillful company. But somewhere between idea and execution things got really wrong and end result is simply flawed.
So are EA and Bioware in panic mode right now ?
HELL YES.
I mean hello? They invested 300 MILLION dollars, now they have a ton of competition with GW2, Rift, TERA and a some others. The tide of hype turned a lot against them, and who can REALLY say if those are a majority or a minority? In essence they will be as clueless about that as any of us, if we are totally honest. We can just guess how representative those voices are.
I think they were too sure of themselves, and I DO think they had way too rigid thinking, bending everything towards that so called fourth pillar. Setting everything on this one feature so much was IMVHO a mistake. And only now they realize it, but try to brush it off with aggressive answers like Mr. Erickson, who just totally lacks the empathy and conversation skills to present things right. Just take the other example, Chris Cao and Jens Andersen and how they present DCU in their regular videos. They also tell of features NOT in their game, but at least they have the conversation skills to present that in words that the listener/reader is not pissed off, like Erickson implying SWTOR players would be too dim witted to play aliens. Or such bollox.
Staying in touch with the fan community has been THE major issue of EVERY single MMO launched in the last 4 years. They ALWAYS were so DAMN sure what they did was right, they never listened to the warning voices and they all fell hard on their faces for exactly the reasons people had said before. "Toldja" was always the creed we said in the end.
So after 2 dozens "Toldja's" I am kinda getting weary of another premature enthusiams. Nothing I see tells me this are the droids... err I mean this is the MMO we were looking for, and it's just a Bioware mind trick. Just that some here are not "weak minded" as Ben Kenobi would put it. I mean, how many time DO we really fall into this "wait for the miracle news of hidden and unknown stuff to surface" trap? Yes maybe THIS time it happens, and I want it to succeed. Really. But what I see is a company losing their nerves and their touch to community. The same things I already critizised in the direction DA2 was taking or ME2 was taking. It all gets streamlined (drop of origins in DA2, drop of most RPG character skill mechanics that made ME2 no RPG but just a shooter with story), and all these things tell me that Bioware is getting lost. They try to emphasis their strengths and the result is they make totally imbalanced, narrowed and limited games now, where all the free decisions and roleplay elements are almost entirely gone. Sacrificed on the altar of STORY.
And what do they do? They go into DENIAL mode. Well, as Mark Twain said: Denial ain't a river in Egypt!
For the sake of the game I hope they wake up! Postpone the launch and add some features to widen to playable scope. The basis of the game is right and great, but the overall scope and the execution of some detail is just lacking.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Hurray again the same bullshit , go GW 2 promote that .
300 million can you again say where it came from , from a anonymous fired employee of mythic , who didn´t had the balls to stand up to do whats right .
Then starts to excaggerate the figures and facts from hearsay ?
LOL and you know what stick to your GW2 cause its going to be the same as GW1 but with paid contents .
Hurray congrats your game explained .
Can you say what game this is ?
No then hush up and move on , cause i finally know what this game is , and i like it
1. In the last 5 years,... every new MMORPG failed to grow beyond the starting point. As a matter of fact not one western launched SUBS based MMORPG had a 25-30% rentention rate after 3 months.
2. EA already shared in these unsuccessful launches with a lot of games (Sims, War, APB, ...).
3. ALL those other "great Lores" were already used and failed as mentioned in point 1 above: Lord of the Rings, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Star Trek, and yes ... even Star Wars itself.
Now add to this:
SW:TOR began development in 2006 ... a time when everyone thought the sky was the limit for subs based games.
See that picture ?
Add a few other facts:
- Everything is turning into free to play and buy to play.
- Bioware has absolutely no experience in PvP on line games (like Blizzard had before launching Wow).
- Only the "great story" telling was the trademark of Bioware up until now.
- No original engine either.
- The panic button hit BIG when forum fans demanded ... space combat. So they included it and everyone saw the results.
--
Thinking about all the above: there is simply a DATED strategy behind it and that's what's everyone is seeing.
Of course they will hunt down the 1.5 million bored MMO players, but chances are ... huge ... they will turn their back to it like all the other Lore based games of the past 5 years... the moment something really catchy will come out.
----
I only believe in Blizzard and the ideas behind GW2 to come with a "different solution" than having "voice-overs" as the main new big thing in MMO land.
Or perhaps an expansion for EVE with planet walking.
I am convinced SW:TOR is the "bridge too far" for a lot of you guys.
And don't fool yourself: the thing will NEED to make money in huge amounts or it will follow the same faith as EA's APB.
Well analyzed. Instead of those who base all their assumptions on fiction, these are the facts which are on the table. One should only conclude from facts, like you, and not bring in entirely pointless things like calling people trolls, SWG-vets or whatever to discredit their posts by unreasonable personal attacks.
Well said, there is ENOUGH reason to advise Bioware to rethink some of their doings.
And everyone who really thinks EA or Bioware devs are immune to critique has no idea. A game developer is like an artist: their game is like their child! Of COURSE they have some feelings when "they child" is so much under critique. You'd have to be a person made of brass not to feel bad about the reaction! They are just mortal humans like any of us, and of course they DON'T stand above critique, like no creative person ever does.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I always worry about the articulate ones. I listened to this lecture once from this very talented speaker who was basically a hater and extremist. Being a minority where I came from I immediately worried about him because people like him who has charisma and are articulate are the most dangerous. Same thing here those people who spew the worst hate are dangerous because they are articulate. Be wary of them.
There is only one thing that is dangerous: stupidity.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I always worry about the articulate ones. I listened to this lecture once from this very talented speaker who was basically a hater and extremist. Being a minority where I came from I immediately worried about him because people like him who has charisma and are articulate are the most dangerous. Same thing here those people who spew the worst hate are dangerous because they are articulate. Be wary of them.
There is only one thing that is dangerous: stupidity.
Well didn´t somebody link you to the threads in swtor forums , there is one thing called stupidity .
There is another thing called ignorance , and you know ignorance is more dangerous then stupidity .
Cause stupid people dont know beter , ignorance people do , but dont act on it .
So who is the more dangerous ?
Somebody who doesn´t even go out and find the information themselfs , or somebody who abuses information to shape there own ignorant opnion .
Sorry you are out of luck Eikal , in last month they moved up the things , its just you dont want to read up on itt .
Information released is enough for people to shape up the picture now , dont like easy to play wow style that has 12 million subscribers , then too bad .
Its not you kind of game , nothing you do would convince you to play it .
Infact you would be the first one to buy a copy on release , just to bash this game sucks in chat .
I mean hello? They invested 300 MILLION dollars, (snips)
You were joking, right?
Only the most persistent haters and opponents would swallow one statement of a disgruntled blogger as greedily as if it's sugar candy or royal cum. 300 million dollars, right. Really , some people just want to believe every bad news that comes out about a game, I swear, it's almost masochistic the way they gloat and celebrate each bad news or rumor of a game they intend to play.
Originally posted by Elikal
Well analyzed. Instead of those who base all their assumptions on fiction, these are the facts which are on the table. One should only conclude from facts, like you, and not bring in entirely pointless things like calling people trolls, SWG-vets or whatever to discredit their posts by unreasonable personal attacks.
Well said, there is ENOUGH reason to advise Bioware to rethink some of their doings.
Speculations, speculations, speculations, oh, how some people revel in them, announcing them as firm truths.
I can totally see why you're so eager to believe statements like the ones you quoted in your post. Me, I try to see it more in context and I have little eye or respect for the skewed viewpoints of people who have proven in their posting how utterly onesidedly biased they are in their adoration and adulation of one MMORPG - like WoW - and denigratingly negative towards any other MMORPG.
The idea alone that you're talking about assumptions on fiction of other people and of "facts" regarding what he said is so hilariously funny and moronic that I'd almost suspect you of trolling, if it hadn't been you. Now I find it merely chuckle worthy for the stupidity in reasoning, like a good joke.
Originally posted by Elikal
There is only one thing that is dangerous: stupidity.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Not to mention the only place u see negative stuff is on mmorpg blog lol. I have looked at the sw tor forums and those are pretty much positive. The reviews of hands on and people who cover games has been good.
The only place u see negaitivity is here. and ea louse. So i dobut the 1 pct of u who tend to make up the posters here scare bioware or ea.
they have there vision they are going to do it that way and when they release in 6 months if they dont get alot fo sales and subs and people start leaving in droves them maybe they panic but right now there is no need to panic.
these are experianced developers who realize there is always a subset of gamers u can never please. They arent gonna overreact to u guys. U just dont mean that much to them. They arent after your dollar they are after those who actually wanna play thisg ame and thinnk the stuff they have seen is cool.
This! So much truth in this.
Very much agree with this aswell.
If your being negative at this stage your not going to buy the game, so it's not going to matter what Bioware do, your still not going to buy the game, hence why should anyone care?
Those that find this an appealing game will go out and get the game, no matter what is posted on this or other forums, heck look at the bad publicity surrounding Darkfall, yet it is still here and getting better write ups.
But that's the thing, you are witnessing an evolution of sorts. It's just slow moving in comparison to the technological leaps that we see.
Also, evolving storylines? Great. Probably takes time. except that some vocal players will scream and rant when a game isn't released in 3 years or less. And if they do release it then they scream that it should have been developed more as it has issues. And I agree with you, that is exactly what bioware will most likely do, develop the story over time while allowing players to do other things in the interim.
As far as "doing things to death", i think there are games far older than all video games that have the exact same game play for over a hundred years but people still play them. I don't think we need to invent new ways to play mmo's every few years but instead we need to build on what works and tweak what doesn't.
We also need to recognize that all mmo's do not have to incorporate the same things and can deviate to cater to different tastes.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You're probably right Sovrath they are story tellers after all. So they will continue to spin tales and that is not a bad game actually. I would not mind playing it if they did that. I could indeed be occupied for years to come if the yarn they spin is worth the admission ticket.
I just got done reading the article in star wars insider on this game with lead game designer. 1. question asked was do u play to have expansions and stuff. His answer was we havent announced anything yet but we certainly want this game to be succesful for years and years even decades. So yea an mmo is an evolving world where u have to create new content to stay releveant.
so bioware does intend to expand on this story over time. Also i think if they are planning on having to do expacs then the negativity they hear from a very small part of the mmo community obviously doesnt bother them.
It also sounds like the space combat will have diffrent kinds of difficulty. He mentions there are missions that are easier for those who dont have great hand eye coordination. There are others aimed for the hardcore type players who are really good at space combat. So not sure if the more difficult missions will have more freedom or not.
I liked the article though was a nice interview. With tor lead designer.
I think outside of inherently negative forums like the ones here at MMORPG, most of the response Bioware has received has actually been very positive. So, no. I don't think they are upset about it.
However, with so much money riding on the project, I'm sure they are at least nervous about how it will all turn out. Anyone in their right mind would be.
I cut out the rest, it was your own vague speculation anyway and I see you missed the point what I was talking about, namely the effect of polish in gameplay in former MMORPG's, and the lesser effect of vast game worlds as SWG and Vanguard had, examples that you conveniently forgot to mention: worlds that were btw far vaster and more open than WoW was.
A balanced, sensible opinion. I like it.
From what I've seen so far, I'd say it's people from those groups and people who're rooting heavily for another - upcoming or existing - MMORPG.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Not sure what to add to this thread... maybe as a SW fan and one of the first followers of TOR, even before it went public, I can say I'm quite bored with LA/Bioware lately.
The lack of real infos added to all the blatant restrictions, made me wish the game would be out yet, so I can put a finger on my disappointment and move either back to older MMO or to GW2.
I will buy TOR collector's edition for sure, and set it next to AoC and SWG CE ones on my shelves. I might be wrong but I see a pattern here, sadly.
Then you haven't paid attention. The SWTOR boards are ~75% negative on the average no information week. When some actual information is released it gets a bit better but not much. Almost every MMO forum that has a thread about SWTOR has people at least sitting on the fence and I'm seeing a bunch of negativity there as well.
As for the people talking about how great Bioware is. Here's some fun stuff to read about the experienced developers at Bioware Austin:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CVaCFsLaBQgJ:www.jobvent.com/bioware-job-reviews-C14550+Bioware+Austin+review&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Read the youtube comments:
Here's a few snippets for people who are lazy:
"I think it reflects the poor state of the programming department in Austin. Many people there have been very unhappy with their director of IT"
"Frequently comments can be heard, from full time employees, about how a person's work is below caliber because they are a contractor, but yet this company, in Austin, relies mostly on contractors to get their game finished.
From what I saw, during my time there, the contractors were doing the same/better work in nine out of ten cases"
"I worked in the programming department. If IQs were assigned to social skills, I'd say Bioware scores an average of 11, where normal would be 100. There is a definite "follow the leader" mentality here. That might be good if the leader were worthy of being followed, but in the case of our department, let me just say 'no comment.' Code is shoddy. Ego trumps quality or skill. The higher up the chain you go, the more shrill the whining. I am considering looking for a new job, but the economy is bad, so I will just hunker down until things turn around and then, maybe, I will get a job with a game company that has a quality programming department."
"As a programmer, I found the quality of their programming to be very poor. I have avoided letting people know that I worked for Bioware because I do not want my programming skills associated with the lack of quality I witnessed there.
Bioware, in addition to hiring temp works as the bulk of their productive force, also outsources a great deal of their work to India, Russia, and the Philippines. I was told that it wasn't important to get things right because they'd outsource the last 10% of the work. This, of course, encourages poor programming.
I also left Bioware with the impression that they lack creativity. They borrow ideas and styles from other companies rather than inventing their own."
It's all unconfirmed but that's the thing about it, nothing will ever be confirmed due to contracts, NDA's, needing the job, etc. Take it all with a grain of salt but the more I look the more I find that it looks like Bioware Austin isn't the shining pinnacle of MMO design many though it would be.
One thing that is 100% true and people here keep forgeting; THIS ISN"T THE BIOWARE YOU KNOW AND LOVE. The majority of the people who make up Bioware Austin are not from the Bioware teams that made KotOR, ME, ME2, or DA:O. Whether they people they hired are good/bad or the team cohesion is good/bad remains to be seen. You cannot judge SWTOR based on their other studios work, it's a whole new team with a few Old Bioware members mixed in.
I will also say this to pre-empt the Bioware Fans, this in no way means that SWTOR won't be a good game. It is just an attempt at making people who have pledged their undying loyalty to Bioware to at least look at things in a more realistic light.
At first I thought the posting of irrelevant (to the thread) information as that link was just another hate bashing attempt or sensationalism, so I'm glad that you added this part to your post.
Ok, sounds fair. Different dev team composition may lead to different decisions and talent mix.
However, to add a sidenote, the same has been stated a lot of times about Blizzard, their current dev teams not being the same as the ones that stood at the base of their successes as Starcraft, Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. While I find the newest work of the last few years not at the same level as what Blizzard was doing 5-10 years ago, they're still doing alright.
Besides, if I understand it correctly, DA:O and the ME series are also developed by separate teams (which shows), but still they're of pretty high quality.
So we'll just have to see how this team performs, the overall line of Bioware games so far has been good and qualitatively high, that's what all their games up till now have had in common.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ok seems enough bashing around , will tell you what i know from bioware fans .
Bioware fans are story driven fans , as long a story spark a emotion , either trough deus ex machina , sexual means what ever and is replayable with different optionsand ending , they are sold .
Simple huh !! SWOTR seems to deliver that .
So done deal bioware fans are happy with a mmo that delivers those options .
They are not happy if there is no story involved .
Sorry most of us are from a age where we dont like fast pace actions , and while we slowly adapt the mmo is just like wow acceptable ease to play .
Especially when we can get help from a pet (called companion)
Now honestly like previous posters says , forum community even on the official SWOTR forums , doesn´t represent the bioware community , yes the developers and people assigned to the product has changed .
Sadly EA bought it up , but EA is not going to go trough a failure like interplay did .
Bioware is known to make product that takes time , and then delivers , lets take dragon age , is graphic stellar ?
No it isn´t sorry i think they would had made more bucks when they made it less realistic more cartoonishe .
But still it sold world wide enough , to justify the long term developement , well about the hype .
I guess the hype will start up after cataclysme has been released , sorry any good marketing company worth there salt.
Knows there is no use throwing money when the product is not done , especially when a giant like blizzard has the spotlight.
ITs no use fighting cataclysme , it will sell millions worldwide , even if beter analyst says its the same game .
It doesn´t matter to WoW player , they have been nerfed big time , the game has reseted , that everything will repeat itself.
It will still sell , about the negativity i really dont get it , 300 million after reading ea louse rant .
You know what i think of him ? FAIL he should have spoken up during war hammer development .
You know why i could predict warhammer mmo failed ? cause its GW community product .
Almost all GW community online are rubbishe , honestly you seen a GW community that doesnt whine all day ?
I love mmorpg forums cause it has good and bad , but stop selling nonesense about a product , when you dont even know what the fan base is about , and the community of bioware is about .
but but but Bioware fan are not known for paying sub to play mmo. Just like there are alot of SW fan out there but most of them wont play mmo.
I dunno what the OP is talking about each video looking progressively worse . I'll admit I've not seen them all but from what I've seen thus far I could'nt see anything wrong with them . Also a video of gameplays shows nothing about the game . Age of Conan looked fantastic compared to WoW in video form but that does'nt translate to the smoothness of the client . This kind of thing happens to EVERY single game in these forums . To date most games have been a little wanting so its always a safe bet to say this or that game will fail its always rubbish and based on rumour like this thread . This kind of trash will continue till a games released and then we'll all get a clearer picture .
When it all comes down to it . Biowares games in my opinion are normally pretty good . StarWars is a massive franchise which even if a half decent game is released will do well .
Threads likes this don't really help and although they arn't bad to waste a few mins looking through the all have one thing in common.
ZERO FACTS .
I have to agree with you on that. Build off quality and add more later. Smart approach.
EA and Bioware are too big to care. This reminds me of the film Heaven's Gate. It was made by great people and was even a tollerable film but it cost so much to make that it destroyed the studio ( UA?) that made it anyway.
I rarely have anything good to say about WOW and Blizzard but at least they care about their fans.
That already changed with NWN 1, it opened in europe the mmo market .
Before NWN 1 it was ridiculous to spent 6-10 hours online . it made transition to mmo gaming easier.
Since europe got "common sense" , sorry most of bioware fans are playing mmo´s
Example before WoW there wasn´t spanishe servers or russian servers .
Only french and german , now you can see there is 2 additonal mmo market suddenly .
And dont forget europe has a lot of pirate servers in wow mmo´s .
People are willing to pay for a product , since most of the people playing mmo´s are the older people with enough money .
I can not talk about SW fans even if i am I , cause SW fans are declining , its a change of generation .
The old guard is slowly tossing in the towel , while the new group are not as dedicated bunch .
So i can only talk about bioware fans and those who i still am in contact with .
The only thing is how cartoony the graphics are, but I guess they are trying to copy WoW's art style. I would really like to see a dark realistic looking Star Wars universe. Something along the lines of AoC graphics. I just feel the cartoon graphics were popular 5 years ago.
This has to do with couple issues i think
1 Lucas arts , there cartoons are made for the newer generations .
2 Also to target a wider market , you cannot have too state of the art graphics , remember not everybody has up to the date computer ,
3 More people like cartoonishe looks then realistic looks >.< i dont know why , but its simply that way .
HELL YES.
I mean hello? They invested 300 MILLION dollars, now they have a ton of competition with GW2, Rift, TERA and a some others. The tide of hype turned a lot against them, and who can REALLY say if those are a majority or a minority? In essence they will be as clueless about that as any of us, if we are totally honest. We can just guess how representative those voices are.
I think they were too sure of themselves, and I DO think they had way too rigid thinking, bending everything towards that so called fourth pillar. Setting everything on this one feature so much was IMVHO a mistake. And only now they realize it, but try to brush it off with aggressive answers like Mr. Erickson, who just totally lacks the empathy and conversation skills to present things right. Just take the other example, Chris Cao and Jens Andersen and how they present DCU in their regular videos. They also tell of features NOT in their game, but at least they have the conversation skills to present that in words that the listener/reader is not pissed off, like Erickson implying SWTOR players would be too dim witted to play aliens. Or such bollox.
Staying in touch with the fan community has been THE major issue of EVERY single MMO launched in the last 4 years. They ALWAYS were so DAMN sure what they did was right, they never listened to the warning voices and they all fell hard on their faces for exactly the reasons people had said before. "Toldja" was always the creed we said in the end.
So after 2 dozens "Toldja's" I am kinda getting weary of another premature enthusiams. Nothing I see tells me this are the droids... err I mean this is the MMO we were looking for, and it's just a Bioware mind trick. Just that some here are not "weak minded" as Ben Kenobi would put it. I mean, how many time DO we really fall into this "wait for the miracle news of hidden and unknown stuff to surface" trap? Yes maybe THIS time it happens, and I want it to succeed. Really. But what I see is a company losing their nerves and their touch to community. The same things I already critizised in the direction DA2 was taking or ME2 was taking. It all gets streamlined (drop of origins in DA2, drop of most RPG character skill mechanics that made ME2 no RPG but just a shooter with story), and all these things tell me that Bioware is getting lost. They try to emphasis their strengths and the result is they make totally imbalanced, narrowed and limited games now, where all the free decisions and roleplay elements are almost entirely gone. Sacrificed on the altar of STORY.
And what do they do? They go into DENIAL mode. Well, as Mark Twain said: Denial ain't a river in Egypt!
For the sake of the game I hope they wake up! Postpone the launch and add some features to widen to playable scope. The basis of the game is right and great, but the overall scope and the execution of some detail is just lacking.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Hurray again the same bullshit , go GW 2 promote that .
300 million can you again say where it came from , from a anonymous fired employee of mythic , who didn´t had the balls to stand up to do whats right .
Then starts to excaggerate the figures and facts from hearsay ?
LOL and you know what stick to your GW2 cause its going to be the same as GW1 but with paid contents .
Hurray congrats your game explained .
Can you say what game this is ?
No then hush up and move on , cause i finally know what this game is , and i like it
Well analyzed. Instead of those who base all their assumptions on fiction, these are the facts which are on the table. One should only conclude from facts, like you, and not bring in entirely pointless things like calling people trolls, SWG-vets or whatever to discredit their posts by unreasonable personal attacks.
Well said, there is ENOUGH reason to advise Bioware to rethink some of their doings.
And everyone who really thinks EA or Bioware devs are immune to critique has no idea. A game developer is like an artist: their game is like their child! Of COURSE they have some feelings when "they child" is so much under critique. You'd have to be a person made of brass not to feel bad about the reaction! They are just mortal humans like any of us, and of course they DON'T stand above critique, like no creative person ever does.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There is only one thing that is dangerous: stupidity.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Well didn´t somebody link you to the threads in swtor forums , there is one thing called stupidity .
There is another thing called ignorance , and you know ignorance is more dangerous then stupidity .
Cause stupid people dont know beter , ignorance people do , but dont act on it .
So who is the more dangerous ?
Somebody who doesn´t even go out and find the information themselfs , or somebody who abuses information to shape there own ignorant opnion .
Sorry you are out of luck Eikal , in last month they moved up the things , its just you dont want to read up on itt .
Information released is enough for people to shape up the picture now , dont like easy to play wow style that has 12 million subscribers , then too bad .
Its not you kind of game , nothing you do would convince you to play it .
Infact you would be the first one to buy a copy on release , just to bash this game sucks in chat .
Seen it all before .
You were joking, right?
Only the most persistent haters and opponents would swallow one statement of a disgruntled blogger as greedily as if it's sugar candy or royal cum. 300 million dollars, right. Really
, some people just want to believe every bad news that comes out about a game, I swear, it's almost masochistic the way they gloat and celebrate each bad news or rumor of a game they intend to play.
Speculations, speculations, speculations, oh, how some people revel in them, announcing them as firm truths.
I can totally see why you're so eager to believe statements like the ones you quoted in your post. Me, I try to see it more in context and I have little eye or respect for the skewed viewpoints of people who have proven in their posting how utterly onesidedly biased they are in their adoration and adulation of one MMORPG - like WoW - and denigratingly negative towards any other MMORPG.
The idea alone that you're talking about assumptions on fiction of other people and of "facts" regarding what he said is so hilariously funny and moronic that I'd almost suspect you of trolling, if it hadn't been you. Now I find it merely chuckle worthy for the stupidity in reasoning, like a good joke.
I couldn't have said it better.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."