Thats a good discussion there. You made me change my position on the subject.
My stance now is that RTT is just as bad as a CS & not worst.
I'm gald that there is RTT games out there for those that likes that model. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, just that, to me, its really a bad MMO mechanic.
Worse** not "Worst".
And this entire thread is your opinion. That doesnt mean it really IS bad MMO Mechanics.
Thats a good discussion there. You made me change my position on the subject.
My stance now is that RTT is just as bad as a CS & not worst.
I'm gald that there is RTT games out there for those that likes that model. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, just that, to me, its really a bad MMO mechanic.
Worse** not "Worst".
And this entire thread is your opinion. That doesnt mean it really IS bad MMO Mechanics.
`Shark
Thank you for the spelling.
As for the rest.. isn't it obvious? Do I not say that that it is my opinion everywhere enough?
Yup, I state my opinion in my thread. Thank you for pointing this out. ::scratch head::
Do you have any other points you want to share to back some opinions you might have on the topic? If not, you'll be ignored from now on. ty
Let me get this, you would rather have skills purchasable in the item shop? Excuse me if I am skeptical about that. Why even bother to play a game where someone else can buy their way to success?
RTT levels the playing field for everyone. With your way, you are letting the guy with money buy his way through or you are letting the person with no life who plays incessantly have the advantage. Gee that sounds like most of the games out there. That is a huge issue as far as I am concerned.
With RTT no one advances any faster than anyone else. Would you rather have a feature installed like Final Fantasy XIV has with fatigue where your character has only a limited playtime before a penalty sets in?
I just don't grasp your problems with RTT especially since only Eve uses such at the moment, you don't even know how it would work in say a fantasy setting.
If you are familiar at all with games with existing item shops, items that help you level faster or enhance equipment are usually the higher priced items. It is almost always easy to exceed normal sub rates buying those items too? So does that mean you want to spend more than a regular sub price? Item shop games love to cater to the spenders.
One thing I note in these forums is the almost universal distaste about in game item shops. If so many people dislike such a feature please explain how RTT is worse than that?
You are certainly entitled to you opinion, I just don't think you have thought your position through very well as most of your arguments are pretty weak and if you notice the vast majority of posters also disagree with you.
Makes you wonder if this is just a troll thread to argue for the sake of arguing.
Question is, would you enjoy the game more if you could buy urself thru the game, Or if you would have to work, and feel you progress with ur character?
I started my MMO-Career in -96, about when MMO were more or less born, if you count out MUD's etc. And these days with all these WoW and WAR games, and the new generation of kiddos playing games with daddys CreditCards. And they whine if they dont get spoon-fed from start in the game. So i guess... Let the kiddos have their cash shops to buy them the skills they did not earn by playing. I will stick to the old fashion way, and enjoying the games it suposed to be.
It's better if you're the destination guy and not the journey guy. In some cases, the journey is shoddy, but this isn't a solution to that. In the cases where the game lacks substance until the end, sure.
Maybe the light is finally shining on people who think the idea of an "end game" is good.
Your system favors players with more real life cash.
The actual Eve system favors players which played the game for a longer time.
The spent money of an average player in both systems in 1 year could be equal... but richer players would get a huge advantage over others. It would end in an "I spent more rl money, so all my skills are better than yours. Say bye to your ship xD"-Battle. Your system is unfair, the actual system is not. Vets played longer, of course they are better...
I assume you like Eve but heard about it too late. Now you are afraid of never catching up again. So they should change their actual system because it doesnt favor you. But they wont and that is why Eve is a total fail for you.
Too bad, go back to your F2P-MMOs where you can feel superior to others because of your spent real-life money.
Let me get this, you would rather have skills purchasable in the item shop? Excuse me if I am skeptical about that. Why even bother to play a game where someone else can buy their way to success?
No I would rather have to play the game. Buying your way into a game in a CS or being subcribed for longer in an RTT generate the same problem to me. Thats why I compare the two.
RTT levels the playing field for everyone. With your way, you are letting the guy with money buy his way through or you are letting the person with no life who plays incessantly have the advantage. Gee that sounds like most of the games out there. That is a huge issue as far as I am concerned.
If someone want to buy his way through, why do you care? Unless its a badly design game... Then thats another problem for another discussion really.
I'll be damn... someone actually playing the game will have an advantage. I guess we live on different planet. I get thats an issue for you & thats cool. Thats why you like RTT & there's no problem there. You gave a reason for your choice & thats all I'm after here.
All of that has been answerd in post # 126 if you had cared to read though.
With RTT no one advances any faster than anyone else. Would you rather have a feature installed like Final Fantasy XIV has with fatigue where your character has only a limited playtime before a penalty sets in?
And thats exactly the problem with it! Its doesn't reward effort but time. If you start after someone, you'll permanently be behind him & thats wrong imo.
Its funny that you mention FFXIV as there been an incredible ammount of whining about the fatigue system limiting the way you play & yet RTT is ten time more restrictive. It litterally take some of your freedom away from you! Thats how I see it anyways. To answer your question; No, I want freedom to play as I see fit.
I just don't grasp your problems with RTT especially since only Eve uses such at the moment, you don't even know how it would work in say a fantasy setting.
Read post #122 & 126. If you can't grasp it after reading those then idk what can I to make you understand. I clearly get that you don't agree because obviously to you RTT is a great mechanic though & thats alright too.
If you are familiar at all with games with existing item shops, items that help you level faster or enhance equipment are usually the higher priced items. It is almost always easy to exceed normal sub rates buying those items too? So does that mean you want to spend more than a regular sub price? Item shop games love to cater to the spenders.
I don't like CS & RTT both, I thought I was clear enough on that... Though, about F2P CS games, "I think most people confuse "How a system works" with "How the greedy corporate use that system" tbh" to quote myself from post # 126. I understand that, currently, there's very few game with a fair CS.
One thing I note in these forums is the almost universal distaste about in game item shops. If so many people dislike such a feature please explain how RTT is worse than that?
Thats basicly because the corporation using that buisness model abuse it to no end... doesn't mean the model itself is bad. Most people are sheeps anyways & I'm sure it's not news to you.
I'm asking the question, I can't answer for them. They are free to come here I tell me/us why to them RTT isn't worse than CS, thats why I made this thread. XD
As for MY explaination... its strange because I thought I already did that. No?
You are certainly entitled to you opinion, I just don't think you have thought your position through very well as most of your arguments are pretty weak and if you notice the vast majority of posters also disagree with you.
If you read post # 122 & 126 & come to the conclusion that my arguements are weak, then that is that & we'll agree to disagre my friend. I don't care about the majority of poster & neither should anyone...
Makes you wonder if this is just a troll thread to argue for the sake of arguing.
Don't click on it then. Wow! that is simple enough eh?
Well, What I get from your post is mainly that you didn't read up from post #122 & up or just skimed it as your idea is already set in stone.
You see, mine went form "RTT is worse than CS" to "RTT is just as bad as CS". So who's trolling um?
Question is, would you enjoy the game more if you could buy urself thru the game, Or if you would have to work, and feel you progress with ur character?
Thats a way to put it. My answer to that is; I want to play the game & feel I progress my character which RTT doesn't do. I hate both RTT & CS
I started my MMO-Career in -96, about when MMO were more or less born, if you count out MUD's etc. And these days with all these WoW and WAR games, and the new generation of kiddos playing games with daddys CreditCards. And they whine if they dont get spoon-fed from start in the game. So i guess... Let the kiddos have their cash shops to buy them the skills they did not earn by playing. I will stick to the old fashion way, and enjoying the games it suposed to be.
Good for you!
First of all to me a CS should be 18+( or have some form of control for minors), be regulated & fair. None of that apply to current CS that I know of. That would already be a big step in making a good F2P game with CS.
Your system favors players with more real life cash.
I don't have a system... i'm just comparing RTT to CS.
The actual Eve system favors players which played the game for a longer time.
The spent money of an average player in both systems in 1 year could be equal... but richer players would get a huge advantage over others. It would end in an "I spent more rl money, so all my skills are better than yours. Say bye to your ship xD"-Battle. Your system is unfair, the actual system is not. Vets played longer, of course they are better...
Thats because of savage capitalism that it is that way. The avarage player in a F2P game shouldn't be paying as much as a P2P player exactly because of the fact that there's always players that will spend more. The average should be held the the game revenue & not the midian player spending.
You are making me go off topic again!!
I assume you like Eve but heard about it too late. Now you are afraid of never catching up again. So they should change their actual system because it doesnt favor you. But they wont and that is why Eve is a total fail for you.
Too bad, go back to your F2P-MMOs where you can feel superior to others because of your spent real-life money.
Fail is fail
Come back when you want to disscuss the topic please
It's better if you're the destination guy and not the journey guy. In some cases, the journey is shoddy, but this isn't a solution to that. In the cases where the game lacks substance until the end, sure.
Maybe the light is finally shining on people who think the idea of an "end game" is good.
Nobody's a destination person.
The most hardcore raider is on a many month journey to cap out all their gear (and the game becomes less interesting once they've arrived at the pinnacle of progression.)
I can't stop you from pretending that a many-month-long gameplay experience is a destination, but well...it's pretty obviously a journey to me. Not the most enjoyable journey for me personally, but still a journey.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I just realized why I used that EVE analogy. ( lets not reopen that can of worm please )
What I proposed was a F2P RTT with CS plain & simple.
That would makes the RTT part a lot more acceptable to me because you don't have to pay to wait. The CS is just for the game to make money somewhere. lol
Thats if the game absolutly has to be RTT for some reason... but then the CS would defeat the reason those people have to insist on such a mechanic in the first place, which is to stay on top imo.
Well, I consider it would be an improvement, but I guess it wouldn't be the same for the pure RTT fan.
On my third try with EvE now and I finally GET IT!
The game works, period. I can now understand why CCP has such a loyal fan base (besides their awesome customer service!).
Just because you have the best skills or the best ship does not make you invincible. It just means you are more prepared for anything that might come your way. In EvE, regardless of ship or skils, there is ALWAYS a way to accomplish what you want to do. Unfortunately for some people on this site it means working with other people in game.
I also like the fact that EvE has the mechanics in place to deal with whiny luggards who piss and moan about why the game doesn't do what they want it to do. If you play this game on a regular basis, I dare you to do into low or null sec space and while in local issue the same complaints. Life will get VERY interesting from there on in.
Real time training means no grinding. As soon as I am able, I can get in my ship and play. No going to one spot over and over, no lame ass raids on lame ass content over and over and over. No "I has teh Purplez so I R bestest!!1!". This game is truly what you make of it.
The learning curve I will admit is steep, but it is soooo worth it. The new tutorials (do them ALL) are a huge help and get yourself into a corp asap. I've encountered FAR more awesome people in this game than jerks, though they exist as well.
To those that need further clarification, check out this video done by none other than CCP.
Real time training means no grinding. Wrong! Its the biggest grind of all & you don't even have to play the game to feel it. As soon as I am able, I can get in my ship and play. No going to one spot over and over, no lame ass raids on lame ass content over and over and over. No "I has teh Purplez so I R bestest!!1!". How is that related to RTT what so ever. Beside, you are wrong about everything you say. In RTT like in every other game you do have to grind going at the "same" place doing the "same" stuff. I fail to see you're logic. Your lame ass train of thoughts doesn't float, I'm sorry.
...
THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT EVE BUT RTT MECHANIC & HOW GOOD OR BAD IT IS COMPARE TO CS & WHY! m'kay
I've encountered FAR more awesome people in this game than jerks, though they exist as well.
To those that need further clarification, check out this video done by none other than CCP.
I believe this is because smacktalking is discouraged by the use of wardecs! ^.^ you can smacktalk if you want, but shortly after, its followed by a wardec against your corp. If wardec is not possible (due to being in npc corp), then i'm sure someone will be willing to suicide gank just to shut the smacktalkers up. Way better than the crap I've seen on WoW global chat.
Originally posted by Nekrataal THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT EVE BUT RTT MECHANIC & HOW GOOD OR BAD IT IS COMPARE TO CS & WHY! m'kay Glad you like EVE... now be on topic please.
The topic is nonsense. You cannot make generalizations about Real-time training as such. It depends on other game mechanics and implementation.
There is one general principle about RTT though: It closes the gap between those who have plenty of time to play and those who don't. In RTT everyone is equal. Everyone get same amount of skill points regardless.
In fact, it would be your proposed change turning the game into favouring those who spend more $ on the game, which would in principle beat the purpose of the system.
Comments
Worse** not "Worst".
And this entire thread is your opinion. That doesnt mean it really IS bad MMO Mechanics.
`Shark
Thank you for the spelling.
As for the rest.. isn't it obvious? Do I not say that that it is my opinion everywhere enough?
Yup, I state my opinion in my thread. Thank you for pointing this out. ::scratch head::
Do you have any other points you want to share to back some opinions you might have on the topic? If not, you'll be ignored from now on. ty
Let me get this, you would rather have skills purchasable in the item shop? Excuse me if I am skeptical about that. Why even bother to play a game where someone else can buy their way to success?
RTT levels the playing field for everyone. With your way, you are letting the guy with money buy his way through or you are letting the person with no life who plays incessantly have the advantage. Gee that sounds like most of the games out there. That is a huge issue as far as I am concerned.
With RTT no one advances any faster than anyone else. Would you rather have a feature installed like Final Fantasy XIV has with fatigue where your character has only a limited playtime before a penalty sets in?
I just don't grasp your problems with RTT especially since only Eve uses such at the moment, you don't even know how it would work in say a fantasy setting.
If you are familiar at all with games with existing item shops, items that help you level faster or enhance equipment are usually the higher priced items. It is almost always easy to exceed normal sub rates buying those items too? So does that mean you want to spend more than a regular sub price? Item shop games love to cater to the spenders.
One thing I note in these forums is the almost universal distaste about in game item shops. If so many people dislike such a feature please explain how RTT is worse than that?
You are certainly entitled to you opinion, I just don't think you have thought your position through very well as most of your arguments are pretty weak and if you notice the vast majority of posters also disagree with you.
Makes you wonder if this is just a troll thread to argue for the sake of arguing.
Question is, would you enjoy the game more if you could buy urself thru the game, Or if you would have to work, and feel you progress with ur character?
I started my MMO-Career in -96, about when MMO were more or less born, if you count out MUD's etc. And these days with all these WoW and WAR games, and the new generation of kiddos playing games with daddys CreditCards. And they whine if they dont get spoon-fed from start in the game. So i guess... Let the kiddos have their cash shops to buy them the skills they did not earn by playing. I will stick to the old fashion way, and enjoying the games it suposed to be.
I'll make it pretty short.
It's better if you're the destination guy and not the journey guy. In some cases, the journey is shoddy, but this isn't a solution to that. In the cases where the game lacks substance until the end, sure.
Maybe the light is finally shining on people who think the idea of an "end game" is good.
Your system favors players with more real life cash.
The actual Eve system favors players which played the game for a longer time.
The spent money of an average player in both systems in 1 year could be equal... but richer players would get a huge advantage over others. It would end in an "I spent more rl money, so all my skills are better than yours. Say bye to your ship xD"-Battle. Your system is unfair, the actual system is not. Vets played longer, of course they are better...
I assume you like Eve but heard about it too late. Now you are afraid of never catching up again. So they should change their actual system because it doesnt favor you. But they wont and that is why Eve is a total fail for you.
Too bad, go back to your F2P-MMOs where you can feel superior to others because of your spent real-life money.
Well, What I get from your post is mainly that you didn't read up from post #122 & up or just skimed it as your idea is already set in stone.
You see, mine went form "RTT is worse than CS" to "RTT is just as bad as CS". So who's trolling um?
To each their own mate.
First of all to me a CS should be 18+( or have some form of control for minors), be regulated & fair. None of that apply to current CS that I know of. That would already be a big step in making a good F2P game with CS.
Come back when you want to disscuss the topic please
Nobody's a destination person.
The most hardcore raider is on a many month journey to cap out all their gear (and the game becomes less interesting once they've arrived at the pinnacle of progression.)
I can't stop you from pretending that a many-month-long gameplay experience is a destination, but well...it's pretty obviously a journey to me. Not the most enjoyable journey for me personally, but still a journey.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I just realized why I used that EVE analogy. ( lets not reopen that can of worm please )
What I proposed was a F2P RTT with CS plain & simple.
That would makes the RTT part a lot more acceptable to me because you don't have to pay to wait. The CS is just for the game to make money somewhere. lol
Thats if the game absolutly has to be RTT for some reason... but then the CS would defeat the reason those people have to insist on such a mechanic in the first place, which is to stay on top imo.
Well, I consider it would be an improvement, but I guess it wouldn't be the same for the pure RTT fan.
Bah... nevermind. lol
On my third try with EvE now and I finally GET IT!
The game works, period. I can now understand why CCP has such a loyal fan base (besides their awesome customer service!).
Just because you have the best skills or the best ship does not make you invincible. It just means you are more prepared for anything that might come your way. In EvE, regardless of ship or skils, there is ALWAYS a way to accomplish what you want to do. Unfortunately for some people on this site it means working with other people in game.
I also like the fact that EvE has the mechanics in place to deal with whiny luggards who piss and moan about why the game doesn't do what they want it to do. If you play this game on a regular basis, I dare you to do into low or null sec space and while in local issue the same complaints. Life will get VERY interesting from there on in.
Real time training means no grinding. As soon as I am able, I can get in my ship and play. No going to one spot over and over, no lame ass raids on lame ass content over and over and over. No "I has teh Purplez so I R bestest!!1!". This game is truly what you make of it.
The learning curve I will admit is steep, but it is soooo worth it. The new tutorials (do them ALL) are a huge help and get yourself into a corp asap. I've encountered FAR more awesome people in this game than jerks, though they exist as well.
To those that need further clarification, check out this video done by none other than CCP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT EVE BUT RTT MECHANIC & HOW GOOD OR BAD IT IS COMPARE TO CS & WHY! m'kay
Glad you like EVE... now be on topic please.
I believe this is because smacktalking is discouraged by the use of wardecs! ^.^ you can smacktalk if you want, but shortly after, its followed by a wardec against your corp. If wardec is not possible (due to being in npc corp), then i'm sure someone will be willing to suicide gank just to shut the smacktalkers up. Way better than the crap I've seen on WoW global chat.
Melbourne Developer Group Recruitment - http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/328931/Melbourne-Game-Development-Group-Recruitment.html
OP, you may want to stop the debates. You admitted yourself there just as "bad" and it all comes to a matter of preference. Nothing more to discuss.
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
The topic is nonsense. You cannot make generalizations about Real-time training as such. It depends on other game mechanics and implementation.
There is one general principle about RTT though: It closes the gap between those who have plenty of time to play and those who don't. In RTT everyone is equal. Everyone get same amount of skill points regardless.
In fact, it would be your proposed change turning the game into favouring those who spend more $ on the game, which would in principle beat the purpose of the system.