Yep, the MMO I want to play (and probably is a long time in coming) is one where If the man gets murdered, he stays murdered and we all see him dead at the same time. He never respawns, never comes back, and its a one time, permanent event in the game world.
I know its a content nightmare to try and create, but I can hope that one day we'l have games to play like this.
The man stays murdered for all those who did the quest chain. Forever: he'll never wake up and your avatar has to solve the case of the mysterious woman behind these crimes.
It does exactly what you ask for. You are hoping for something what already has been delivered: a programmer's nightmare.
No, you're not quite grasping my point, if I solve the mystery, I want to be the only person who solves the mystery, and not the person who did it for the 33,298th time.
I want the game world to be unique and dynamic, that we all actually live in, however the amount of content generation far outstrips our current technology, but one day we might have such an interactive environment.
you know how impossible that is to do right? not just for blizzard for for any MMO company...
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I don't get why people don't like quests? I hated grinding for no reason at all. Sure quests in WoW are more or less grindy, but at least the illusion is that I'm at least killing that monster for a reason. Nothings worse than standing in one spot and killing monsters the whole time for no apparent reason but for loot/exp...I don't play MMOs for that. But I guess people just like to sit in one spot and grind for hours and waiting to get awesome items. Luckily the people who like questing are the majority, maybe not on MMORPG.com but many other MMO sites they are the majority. MMORPG.com users just don't like any MMO. But thats for another topic. But I'm not worried, MMO companies will for the most part give the questors more MMOs with quests. And less grindy games. Even EVE Online has "quests" in it. A small part of the game, but from what I saw on my EVE trial, the majority of the players in EVE do missions and PvE. Then some did low-sec/nullsec, but they weren't the majority. This was judging from looking at different corps/chat and reading the forums. SWG had missions too, if I remember right.
And at least with the new WoW, things change as you do quests...not 100% dynamic, but at least the world isn't as static as 99% of other MMOs. Most MMOs stay the same forever, unless some patch comes out to change something or add a new land. With the new phasing system, you can see things change...which is really awesome. I thought this was what people wanted? More dynamic MMOs? Or do some people just want a never-changing world that anything you do means nothing? At least with the new WoW quests...well that Westfall quest line is a great example, at least doing the quest(s) changes things. I can't play a MMO where things never change as you do quests or do events after WoW. I play MMOs to have a dynamic, breathing world...and WoW takes a step toward that direction, when previously it didn't. The only other MMO that has a breathing world, but isn't dynamic, is Ryzom.
The game is a lot easier, though...which is lame. I can solo instances now as a Paladin or Druid...lol...almost mind numbingly boring now. May make me quit because of that...heck, Death Knights can solo Northrend raids now! LOL.
GW2 will take the questing and dynamic portion of MMOs to a new level, though. And GW2 will actually be a DYNAMIC MMO. An event happens, say a dragon attacks a village...players either A: Successfully defend the village, and kill the dragon...the village is saved, at least for now. But, what if the dragon is successful? The village is now burning ruins, and the dragon goes on to who knows what area of the land. Now that village is gone for everybody. And the dragon is still on the loose.
WoW is the best quest based MMO now, since quests actually mean something and change the world around you. But GW2 will beat it in the dynamic MMO department.
That is assuming GW2 lives up to what it promises. Then again, people here on these forums will still complain about GW2. They don't want things to change around them, from what I get in some of these replies in the thread. They'll still complain GW2 is a singleplayer RPG with MMO features. Even if people around them change the game world. Guess some people here just don't like their MMO worlds changing as they do quests. They want a static world to play in. And again, I doubt this is the majority of the MMO world.
MMOs will continue to have quests, and offer more and more dynamic worlds. The oldschool MMOers will slowly die out.
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Westfall Imagine this: You come upon a murder scene.
A farmer and his horse were killed beside the road. Yep, he was the one who waited for a long time in old Westfal to get things going and now he's murdered.
You have to search for clues: some beggars, homeless, children who steal from the dead. The Bronx type. Some humanoid mobs that live further down the beach are supects too. You need to search but no clues come in.
Then the detective sends you to question a tip giver. He's heard something of course and you need to go to his old hiding place. When you search this cave - you hide within a box, you are witness of a secret meeting between a dual headed Ogre and a young woman you can't identitfy. She asks the Ogre if the operation was succesful. He hired some tugs to do the killing.
You sneak back to the man and he already know the tugs: they stand with 4 around the back of the house. Reluctantly you sneak upon them, but ... you can't attack them: standing close ... you hear them talking about the murder. Suddenly they turn and uncover you. You run (4 guys), but in running you see that only 2 come after you. A fierce fight and you kill those 2.
You go back and the old man lays dead surrounded by crying people: the old tip giver was murdered (perhaps by those other 2). The murdered man has his shoes over his heads: that's what they do with those who talk.
Now the important part.
In this quest you are confronted with 3 phasings without even noticing it. Incredible design. Without any loading screens the murder scenery changes and the inspector is back on track to help you solve the case. Other players still see the murdered man alive... and you don't even realise you're being "phased" while still viewing other players.
Incredible quest mechanics. Superior to anything I've seen on line. The player doesn't even know he's tricked into a phasing sequence.
Honestly, this is not a knock against those who enjoy the changes. I understand the whole different strokes for different folks thing. I don't like all the movies my friends like and vice versa.
That said, I've heard it said there are three different kinds of people in life: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who ask, "What just happened?"
I don't want to be the second or third in a game that I play. What you described in that quest is you watching what happened. I'm not interested in that. I'd rather be given quests where I go "make things happen."
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It's the fact that the only quests that require an actual group are LFDungeon quests, in which you group with people from a different realm and don't say a word the entire instance.
I think this comes down to HOW you play the game. I talk to folks in Dungeon Finder all the time. I know the people like you, who don't say a single word, and you guys are usually the reason I get bored with DF. If you treat the game as an MMO and talk to your fellow players, interact with them, then it's a lot more fun. Don't get me wrong. I don't enjoy WoW much at all. The ridiculous lore. The cartoony art style. The simplified gameplay. But if you play it as an MMO rather than just a stat busting, xp grinding, mission-to-prove-you-have-a-giant... sword... then of course it'll seem boring and one dimensional. Play with friends. Strike up a conversation with someone. Most of you "hardcore" gamers only interact with people via sites like this so you only know how to STATE OPINION AND FLAME OTHER OPINIONS like you're some kind of robot. Interact with people once in a while. Make friends. Don't say the game is all about xp/stat crunching when really it's just YOU making it about xp/stats.
Right, and I could sit in a chat room all day too. I'm actually all for socialization, and would love if people talked more. Unfortunately blizzard designed their game in such a way that discourages group interaction. First of all, the instances are so easy you don't need to talk about them. Second, you are so busy spamming the same "Attack 01" over and over that you don't have time to type. Third, MP / HP regenerates so fast that there is no downtime for socialization.
Well, you must play differantly to me. I always find something to say and talk about amidst the dungeons. Best way to actually MEET people is the dungeon finder. I barely see another player unless I'm in a city being bombarded by boring trade chat.
Blizzard did not try to improve any sort of standard for quests. If anything, Blizzard worked towards dumbing down the standard so that it appeals to a wider variety of gamers; mostly the simplistic-minded gamers who need exclamation marks over the heads of npc's so they know where to go.
Honestly blizzards phasing in wrath was not utilized well, but was absolutly flawsless. And very few fans/dev even picked up on it.
I like phasing but rather enjoy mmos for the mmo aspect not the single play story aspect.
But will 100% agree that wow is at least aproching story and plot correctly via phasing verses what lets say TOr is doing where its acctually instanced seperatly.
Phasing is the best tech/system for personal/ small group/ world changing story/ plot behavior.
But id rather live the world not the story (everythign doesn't need to evlove around my toon, i would rather have a more alive world.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I like what they did with the quests myself, but to be honest, its just Blizzard doing what Blizzard has always done. They took an idea that another MMO is working on doing, and brought it out as fast as they could to claim it as thier own, bugs and all. I'm sorry, but anyone who is anyone has been watching the GW2 vids for some time now, and these quests in WoW, are just Blizzard's attempt at mastering their immersion and persistance before they can go live. WoW has had this throughout its history, and yet again Blizzard has done it once more. Mark my words, the next best idea for an MMORPG that comes out in a developers diary (vid) that looks like a game changer to the genre, will end up in a patch in WoW within weeks of being seen. This hasnt been the first, and it sure wont be the last for them.
I like what they did with the quests myself, but to be honest, its just Blizzard doing what Blizzard has always done. They took an idea that another MMO is working on doing, and brought it out as fast as they could to claim it as thier own, bugs and all. I'm sorry, but anyone who is anyone has been watching the GW2 vids for some time now, and these quests in WoW, are just Blizzard's attempt at mastering their immersion and persistance before they can go live. WoW has had this throughout its history, and yet again Blizzard has done it once more. Mark my words, the next best idea for an MMORPG that comes out in a developers diary (vid) that looks like a game changer to the genre, will end up in a patch in WoW within weeks of being seen. This hasnt been the first, and it sure wont be the last for them.
WoW has had phasing since TBC expansion 4 years ago..... so saying blizzard copied GW2 is simply incorrect.
Also alot of what we see in WoW blizzard already had in the Diablo games... and these game even pre-date EQ1.
So MMO quests are finally beginning to do what RPG's 20 years ago had perfected with interactive storytelling and real plot progression? Incredible!
If that's not amusing enough, this thread is basically given Blizzard credit for breaking ground based on it's trend of copying the features of whatever up & coming MMO seems to promise it the most competition.
Phasing has been in WoW for a long time now. They are just taking it to 'the next level'.
Originally posted by Scorchien
Yea but some people think it is challenging and fun to follow the Great Glowing beacons over the npcs and the bread crumbs all over the map ......
lmao thats not a Quest ..........they need to remove that word altogether ......
Let me guess, you like sandbox games. Guess what, killing monsters all the time and grinding up skills is not challenging. So I am guessing you are one of those 'real players' who are fans of boring and stupid games like EQ1, UO, Darkfall etc. Am i right? Those games were not challenging, they were time consuming and for people who could spend 10 hours in front of their PC. Grinding in groups doesn't make it better. Sandbox games = developer's way of saying 'yeah we give you these tools which took us 4 weeks to develop and now you have FREEDOM!' And you go 'Ooh boy,ooh boy....'
Weak!
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by demonic87
Upped the standards of quests? Good thing Guild Wars 2 is doing away with them all together m i rite?
Seriously. Players don't want more streamlined questing, we've had that in WoW since 2004. The next step forward for MMOs isn't cataclysm style questing, It's the removal of pointless quest grinding to level up. First game to do that and make it fun, wins.
Streamlined questing is not bad, mkay? I prefer having 1-2 quests on which I can focus and have a good story. A story you can actually remember. But MMOs have to give me 20 quests at a time so even if I do read the quests I will end up forgetting what they were about even before I've started doing them and go on to pawn 10 wolves/bears and collect 10 mystical mushrooms.
Originally posted by grimm6th
I will gladly be that troll...but this is serious.
The OP shows a great lack of what is going on in the coding of the quest if they think that what is described is extraordinary.
Phasing? I think not.
sure...it might be an interesting quest (or you might be overselling it) but that doesn't mean anything for the standards of quests. I sure hope that a 6 year old game isn't setting the standards of quests.
So if a 6 year old game comes up with a good idea, it sucks anyway because it's...old?
We know how phasing works. What's nice is the fact that it's a more involved type of quest which is more than just kill 10 <insert random villain>
Originally posted by Rockgod99
Yeah... Like it matters? The majority of your playerbase will just blaze through content to hit blizzardS oh wonderful endgame of repeating the same. Dungeons over and over for tokens... What wasted content... You play LOTRO, one would think you care about the journey to max level and not what the game is like at cap. If those people want to rush to max level, let them have it. But this is a fantastic change for those of us who like the leveling experience.
Originally posted by Wizardry
Well before you go tooting Blizzards horn,let's getr some facts straight here....
Blizzard is no bettertha nthe rest releasing bugged content,which means they did not testing of their on content to make sure it works.Then they take an idea and rehash the exact same quest idea in EVERY noob zone...you know which one the fire extinguisher.
There is a quest to hand over a DEED to a farmers farm,all a nice little quest if it actually works but it doesn't the farmer never shows up to give him the deed.Grimaxe demise anotehr bugged quest in the stumpy land of dwarves,Don Murdogh or whatever it is called.You need to kill Genral Grimaxe umm he doesn't show lol.
The airfield is a nice bit of quests,you fly in on a plane,extinguish fires [rehashed]jump in a plane and bomb the enemies,but then it ruins the entire design if it can't be continued because of a bugged quest.What can totally ruin the game experience is that MANY peopel wil lrun all over figuring they are in the wrong spot,only to finally ee someone post that the quest/s are bugged,so people wasted tons of their time.
Then you can get used to the game holding your hand showing exactly where to go,but then some one put out a marker that is quite a bit off from where your target is suppsoe to be,again lazy on behalf of Blizzard.The players are not making the content ,Blizz is ,so they are the ones that shoudl get it right.Sure people can eventually find the target,but the point is that Blizz makes many errors and peopel just like to toot the horn like they are perfect,they are not.
This was just two of the zones,i imagine more bugged content throughout the game.This is to make sure people don't go overboard complementing a developer for releasing bugs,afterall to be fair,nobody accepts it from any otehr developer right?
There are bugs in a game, amagad call the care squad. WoW's the most polished game out there. Period. It's a good damn fact. Right now there are massive changes to every single aspect of the game. Of course, there will be bugs. But don't worry, those will be fixed soon enough (much sooner than what we get in other MMOs). Then you can go back to the WoW-is-so-easy-and-holds-your-hand-all-the-time bandwagon.
Blizzard need to be applauded for implementing radical changes to the most successful MMO of all times.
On a side note, learn to type and form coherent sentences.
I like what they did with the quests myself, but to be honest, its just Blizzard doing what Blizzard has always done. They took an idea that another MMO is working on doing, and brought it out as fast as they could to claim it as thier own, bugs and all. I'm sorry, but anyone who is anyone has been watching the GW2 vids for some time now, and these quests in WoW, are just Blizzard's attempt at mastering their immersion and persistance before they can go live. WoW has had this throughout its history, and yet again Blizzard has done it once more. Mark my words, the next best idea for an MMORPG that comes out in a developers diary (vid) that looks like a game changer to the genre, will end up in a patch in WoW within weeks of being seen. This hasnt been the first, and it sure wont be the last for them.
Phasing is not new for Blizzard. Even if they copied this from GW@ I applaud them for doing so. It means that they are willing to update and change the game to make it better. It means that they do not have the arrogance of SE. SE said that we know what's better and screw all the mmo games have done till now. Blizzard is willing to adopt new ideas and that's their strong point not their weakness. After all that's how everything works in the world. One comes with an idea and the others perfect it. That's how humanity advances.
Other players still see the murdered man alive... and you don't even realise you're being "phased" while still viewing other players.
So then, more than ever, you are playing a single player game. A step backward IMO, but to each their own.
I agree
Nothing says "Massive Multiplayer" like waiting in a 2 and a half hour line behind 3 other groups for an open world contested mob. I mean, thats immersion! Watching that boss die repeatedly and pop up at the same spot he did every other time while you and 3 other groups have campfires, do dance emotes and shout in the chat channels what number you are for the contested mob when others ask for a 'camp check"
WARs public quests and GW2s Dynamic quests is a very different thing, that is something no one else has done before.
Wows motto have always been "Do what others have done before but better". If they have made or not is up to everyones opinion, but it is at least clear that they have improved Wows quests a lot.
This is incorrect. Wow had public quests way back in vanilla. The gate opening event for AQ and Naxx were a public quest, just like the undead & elemental invasions.
There are several games that had public quests before warhammer. I think UO was the first with the heroic system (I'm fuzzy on the details).
Warhammer gets so much credit here, because they overused the idea to the point that public events replaced almost all of the traditional content found in mmos and they put some open shared loot system. Other than that, public quests had been done long before warhammer, just not to the extreme warhammer did them.
Other players still see the murdered man alive... and you don't even realise you're being "phased" while still viewing other players.
So then, more than ever, you are playing a single player game. A step backward IMO, but to each their own.
I agree
Nothing says "Massive Multiplayer" like waiting in a 2 and a half hour line behind 3 other groups for an open world contested mob. I mean, thats immersion! Watching that boss die repeatedly and pop up at the same spot he did every other time while you and 3 other groups have campfires, do dance emotes and shout in the chat channels what number you are for the contested mob when others ask for a 'camp check"
Nothing says unrealistic like this comment.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
WARs public quests and GW2s Dynamic quests is a very different thing, that is something no one else has done before.
Wows motto have always been "Do what others have done before but better". If they have made or not is up to everyones opinion, but it is at least clear that they have improved Wows quests a lot.
This is incorrect. Wow had public quests way back in vanilla. The gate opening event for AQ and Naxx were a public quest, just like the undead & elemental invasions.
There are several games that had public quests before warhammer. I think UO was the first with the heroic system (I'm fuzzy on the details).
Warhammer gets so much credit here, because they overused the idea to the point that public events replaced almost all of the traditional content found in mmos and they put some open shared loot system. Other than that, public quests had been done long before warhammer, just not to the extreme warhammer did them.
Then daoc had the first public quests in pvp. (that i know of.) CAlling daocs or wows very few all people on server rewards for part of the populatiosn actiosn a public quest is a joke btw.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I really love all the bitching about how this has removed the mmo from wow, yet ppl are clamoring to get thier hands on SW:TOR which is all about single player quest development where you can drag a friend or 4 along if you want to beat that one baddie at the end of the chain.
Pick a side of the fence to stand on and stay there, the proctologists are getting tired of removing fence posts. :P
Grouping in Old school mmo's: meeting someone at the bar and chatting, getting to know them before jumping into bed. Current mmo's grouping: tinder. swipe, hookup, hope you don't get herpes, never see them again.
I really love all the bitching about how this has removed the mmo from wow, yet ppl are clamoring to get thier hands on SW:TOR which is all about single player quest development where you can drag a friend or 4 along if you want to beat that one baddie at the end of the chain.
Pick a side of the fence to stand on and stay there, the proctologists are getting tired of removing fence posts. :P
Hmm, someone having issues with a game that's not even out yet?
nope, issues with people bitching one side and applauding the other side of the same story :P
Grouping in Old school mmo's: meeting someone at the bar and chatting, getting to know them before jumping into bed. Current mmo's grouping: tinder. swipe, hookup, hope you don't get herpes, never see them again.
I played WOW over 3.5 years...WOW....BC and WOTLK. Haven't played in about a year and still haven't decided whether to stick my feet into the new pool called "Cataclysm". Some things interest me but I just don't know if I want to get immersed in the game again...as I have found a few others that are just as fun...some of which are free. I do log in from time to time to check things out which is what I'll likely do to see the world changes and some new quests.
Now..correct me if I'm wrong...but I thought you could choose to turn off the quest helpers...therefore eliminating this "hand-holding" many complain about. I remember just reading quests and/or exploring to find stuff . It made it much more fun imo.
So....You can't do this anymore?
It's not the quest helper that makes the quests easy. It's the fact that once you get to the quest mobs, they die in 2 spell casts before they even get near you. It's the fact that the quest mobs are right in the open, and you don't have to fight your way to them generally. It's the fact that the only quests that require an actual group are LFDungeon quests, in which you group with people from a different realm and don't say a word the entire instance.
There is absolutely not challenge in leveling in WoW, I don't even remember the last time I died. Not that it would matter if I did, because there is no penalty.
It's like someone who climbs a mountain, compared to someone who steps over a curb. They both get to the other side, but the person who steps up the curb has no reason to take pride in their accomplishment.
I'm sure some troll will come along to tell you how your wrong but I for one agree.
That is quite a lame defensive response,you like the OP ,ONLY tell one side of the story w/o telling the obvious,especially when 50% of the people on the servers know of the bugs as i am quite sure both of you also know but made sure to NOT mention it...why?
I told the facts and truth,a few of the quests would be pretty good if they actually worked,asking them to actually work is not asking too much is it?or is that trolling also?SICK of people throwing around trolling even when FACTS are presented.
I agree here , a sad fact that with the advent of broadband DSL & ADSL and onwards online gaming became available to the poor uneducated and downright dumb.
Blizzard took advantage of this , creating an easy mode whack a mole variant of an MMO which is fine for blizzard because they can suck the dumb majority dry. Their is a big difference between that and good gaming. The OP displays a good example of this, lets talk about the games that defined the genre not the one that ruined it!!!!
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by grimm6th
sure...it might be an interesting quest (or you might be overselling it) but that doesn't mean anything for the standards of quests. I sure hope that a 6 year old game isn't setting the standards of quests.
It's true. Runescape has been doing this since 2005.
Skimmed through having read some really crazy stuff here, some of not worth replying to.
I logged in prior to the cata patch and logged out within 2 min, I felt sick at the thought of playing. After the the patch I felt obliged to check it out, mainly for the revamped zones. I decided to roll an alliance mage for a change and check some of the lower quest changes and am still playing and enjoying it and the changes.
Some people can't handle change and live in the past, for those people each passing patch makes WoW more and more corrupt. I simply see blizzard changing with the times and doing what is required to maintain competitive 6 years and 4 days since launch.
The days of Everquest, corpse runs, unfriendly MMO's are way behind us, in terms of popular acceptance. Like all things in life, move with the times or sit back and reminisce about the "good ol days".
Other players still see the murdered man alive... and you don't even realise you're being "phased" while still viewing other players.
So then, more than ever, you are playing a single player game. A step backward IMO, but to each their own.
I agree
Nothing says "Massive Multiplayer" like waiting in a 2 and a half hour line behind 3 other groups for an open world contested mob. I mean, thats immersion! Watching that boss die repeatedly and pop up at the same spot he did every other time while you and 3 other groups have campfires, do dance emotes and shout in the chat channels what number you are for the contested mob when others ask for a 'camp check"
Nothing says unrealistic like this comment.
/agreed
it was..actually..very unrealistic. thank god developers are looking for different avenues to make players actually feel like the protaganist in the game they play and not keeping players logged in for countless hours in what can only be described as a lobby where you wait your turn for your chance at a quest mob.
Yep, the MMO I want to play (and probably is a long time in coming) is one where If the man gets murdered, he stays murdered and we all see him dead at the same time. He never respawns, never comes back, and its a one time, permanent event in the game world.
I know its a content nightmare to try and create, but I can hope that one day we'l have games to play like this.
The man stays murdered for all those who did the quest chain. Forever: he'll never wake up and your avatar has to solve the case of the mysterious woman behind these crimes.
It does exactly what you ask for. You are hoping for something what already has been delivered: a programmer's nightmare.
No, you're not quite grasping my point, if I solve the mystery, I want to be the only person who solves the mystery, and not the person who did it for the 33,298th time.
I want the game world to be unique and dynamic, that we all actually live in, however the amount of content generation far outstrips our current technology, but one day we might have such an interactive environment.
What you are asking for can be found in any single player RPG. Instead of trying to change a genre to fit what you want, perhaps it's time to realize that you are playing the wrong genre.
Too many gamers like yourself sit around dreaming of some big impossible game that's likely never going to exist rather than actually enjoying what we have. The new quests in old world are a blast. They are well written and fun. And i'm not even a wow fan. Came back to see the shattering, figured it'd be the same old crap and it isn't. I'm actually having fun in WoW which is shocking as i always preferred other games.
Then daoc had the first public quests in pvp. (that i know of.) CAlling daocs or wows very few all people on server rewards for part of the populatiosn actiosn a public quest is a joke btw.
I don't know who actually had the first public quest mechanics. Maybe DAOC or Ultima, I don't know. Still both predate warhammer which most people credit with some sort of never before done mechanic in mmos.
Wow had events that spawned monsters in a small area where anyone could participate to complete to further the event. Kill 100 undead, kill the 4 lieutenants that would spawn and then the boss. Maybe it was gather some crystals or click some things. Other games had that well before wow did.
Comments
you know how impossible that is to do right? not just for blizzard for for any MMO company...
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I don't get why people don't like quests? I hated grinding for no reason at all. Sure quests in WoW are more or less grindy, but at least the illusion is that I'm at least killing that monster for a reason. Nothings worse than standing in one spot and killing monsters the whole time for no apparent reason but for loot/exp...I don't play MMOs for that. But I guess people just like to sit in one spot and grind for hours and waiting to get awesome items. Luckily the people who like questing are the majority, maybe not on MMORPG.com but many other MMO sites they are the majority. MMORPG.com users just don't like any MMO. But thats for another topic. But I'm not worried, MMO companies will for the most part give the questors more MMOs with quests. And less grindy games. Even EVE Online has "quests" in it. A small part of the game, but from what I saw on my EVE trial, the majority of the players in EVE do missions and PvE. Then some did low-sec/nullsec, but they weren't the majority. This was judging from looking at different corps/chat and reading the forums. SWG had missions too, if I remember right.
And at least with the new WoW, things change as you do quests...not 100% dynamic, but at least the world isn't as static as 99% of other MMOs. Most MMOs stay the same forever, unless some patch comes out to change something or add a new land. With the new phasing system, you can see things change...which is really awesome. I thought this was what people wanted? More dynamic MMOs? Or do some people just want a never-changing world that anything you do means nothing? At least with the new WoW quests...well that Westfall quest line is a great example, at least doing the quest(s) changes things. I can't play a MMO where things never change as you do quests or do events after WoW. I play MMOs to have a dynamic, breathing world...and WoW takes a step toward that direction, when previously it didn't. The only other MMO that has a breathing world, but isn't dynamic, is Ryzom.
The game is a lot easier, though...which is lame. I can solo instances now as a Paladin or Druid...lol...almost mind numbingly boring now. May make me quit because of that...heck, Death Knights can solo Northrend raids now! LOL.
GW2 will take the questing and dynamic portion of MMOs to a new level, though. And GW2 will actually be a DYNAMIC MMO. An event happens, say a dragon attacks a village...players either A: Successfully defend the village, and kill the dragon...the village is saved, at least for now. But, what if the dragon is successful? The village is now burning ruins, and the dragon goes on to who knows what area of the land. Now that village is gone for everybody. And the dragon is still on the loose.
WoW is the best quest based MMO now, since quests actually mean something and change the world around you. But GW2 will beat it in the dynamic MMO department.
That is assuming GW2 lives up to what it promises. Then again, people here on these forums will still complain about GW2. They don't want things to change around them, from what I get in some of these replies in the thread. They'll still complain GW2 is a singleplayer RPG with MMO features. Even if people around them change the game world. Guess some people here just don't like their MMO worlds changing as they do quests. They want a static world to play in. And again, I doubt this is the majority of the MMO world.
MMOs will continue to have quests, and offer more and more dynamic worlds. The oldschool MMOers will slowly die out.
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Honestly, this is not a knock against those who enjoy the changes. I understand the whole different strokes for different folks thing. I don't like all the movies my friends like and vice versa.
That said, I've heard it said there are three different kinds of people in life: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who ask, "What just happened?"
I don't want to be the second or third in a game that I play. What you described in that quest is you watching what happened. I'm not interested in that. I'd rather be given quests where I go "make things happen."
Playing | GW2
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Well, you must play differantly to me. I always find something to say and talk about amidst the dungeons. Best way to actually MEET people is the dungeon finder. I barely see another player unless I'm in a city being bombarded by boring trade chat.
Blizzard did not try to improve any sort of standard for quests. If anything, Blizzard worked towards dumbing down the standard so that it appeals to a wider variety of gamers; mostly the simplistic-minded gamers who need exclamation marks over the heads of npc's so they know where to go.
Honestly blizzards phasing in wrath was not utilized well, but was absolutly flawsless. And very few fans/dev even picked up on it.
I like phasing but rather enjoy mmos for the mmo aspect not the single play story aspect.
But will 100% agree that wow is at least aproching story and plot correctly via phasing verses what lets say TOr is doing where its acctually instanced seperatly.
Phasing is the best tech/system for personal/ small group/ world changing story/ plot behavior.
But id rather live the world not the story (everythign doesn't need to evlove around my toon, i would rather have a more alive world.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I like what they did with the quests myself, but to be honest, its just Blizzard doing what Blizzard has always done. They took an idea that another MMO is working on doing, and brought it out as fast as they could to claim it as thier own, bugs and all. I'm sorry, but anyone who is anyone has been watching the GW2 vids for some time now, and these quests in WoW, are just Blizzard's attempt at mastering their immersion and persistance before they can go live. WoW has had this throughout its history, and yet again Blizzard has done it once more. Mark my words, the next best idea for an MMORPG that comes out in a developers diary (vid) that looks like a game changer to the genre, will end up in a patch in WoW within weeks of being seen. This hasnt been the first, and it sure wont be the last for them.
WoW has had phasing since TBC expansion 4 years ago..... so saying blizzard copied GW2 is simply incorrect.
Also alot of what we see in WoW blizzard already had in the Diablo games... and these game even pre-date EQ1.
Phasing is not new for Blizzard. Even if they copied this from GW@ I applaud them for doing so. It means that they are willing to update and change the game to make it better. It means that they do not have the arrogance of SE. SE said that we know what's better and screw all the mmo games have done till now. Blizzard is willing to adopt new ideas and that's their strong point not their weakness. After all that's how everything works in the world. One comes with an idea and the others perfect it. That's how humanity advances.
I agree
Nothing says "Massive Multiplayer" like waiting in a 2 and a half hour line behind 3 other groups for an open world contested mob. I mean, thats immersion! Watching that boss die repeatedly and pop up at the same spot he did every other time while you and 3 other groups have campfires, do dance emotes and shout in the chat channels what number you are for the contested mob when others ask for a 'camp check"
This is incorrect. Wow had public quests way back in vanilla. The gate opening event for AQ and Naxx were a public quest, just like the undead & elemental invasions.
There are several games that had public quests before warhammer. I think UO was the first with the heroic system (I'm fuzzy on the details).
Warhammer gets so much credit here, because they overused the idea to the point that public events replaced almost all of the traditional content found in mmos and they put some open shared loot system. Other than that, public quests had been done long before warhammer, just not to the extreme warhammer did them.
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Nothing says unrealistic like this comment.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Then daoc had the first public quests in pvp. (that i know of.) CAlling daocs or wows very few all people on server rewards for part of the populatiosn actiosn a public quest is a joke btw.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I really love all the bitching about how this has removed the mmo from wow, yet ppl are clamoring to get thier hands on SW:TOR which is all about single player quest development where you can drag a friend or 4 along if you want to beat that one baddie at the end of the chain.
Pick a side of the fence to stand on and stay there, the proctologists are getting tired of removing fence posts. :P
Hmm, someone having issues with a game that's not even out yet?
nope, issues with people bitching one side and applauding the other side of the same story :P
True. Can't dispute this fact.
I agree here , a sad fact that with the advent of broadband DSL & ADSL and onwards online gaming became available to the poor uneducated and downright dumb.
Blizzard took advantage of this , creating an easy mode whack a mole variant of an MMO which is fine for blizzard because they can suck the dumb majority dry. Their is a big difference between that and good gaming. The OP displays a good example of this, lets talk about the games that defined the genre not the one that ruined it!!!!
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
It's true. Runescape has been doing this since 2005.
Skimmed through having read some really crazy stuff here, some of not worth replying to.
I logged in prior to the cata patch and logged out within 2 min, I felt sick at the thought of playing. After the the patch I felt obliged to check it out, mainly for the revamped zones. I decided to roll an alliance mage for a change and check some of the lower quest changes and am still playing and enjoying it and the changes.
Some people can't handle change and live in the past, for those people each passing patch makes WoW more and more corrupt. I simply see blizzard changing with the times and doing what is required to maintain competitive 6 years and 4 days since launch.
The days of Everquest, corpse runs, unfriendly MMO's are way behind us, in terms of popular acceptance. Like all things in life, move with the times or sit back and reminisce about the "good ol days".
/agreed
it was..actually..very unrealistic. thank god developers are looking for different avenues to make players actually feel like the protaganist in the game they play and not keeping players logged in for countless hours in what can only be described as a lobby where you wait your turn for your chance at a quest mob.
What you are asking for can be found in any single player RPG. Instead of trying to change a genre to fit what you want, perhaps it's time to realize that you are playing the wrong genre.
Too many gamers like yourself sit around dreaming of some big impossible game that's likely never going to exist rather than actually enjoying what we have. The new quests in old world are a blast. They are well written and fun. And i'm not even a wow fan. Came back to see the shattering, figured it'd be the same old crap and it isn't. I'm actually having fun in WoW which is shocking as i always preferred other games.
I don't know who actually had the first public quest mechanics. Maybe DAOC or Ultima, I don't know. Still both predate warhammer which most people credit with some sort of never before done mechanic in mmos.
Wow had events that spawned monsters in a small area where anyone could participate to complete to further the event. Kill 100 undead, kill the 4 lieutenants that would spawn and then the boss. Maybe it was gather some crystals or click some things. Other games had that well before wow did.