tanaka knows how to do a good game. but he failed big on this one. i like him but nevertheless he gave out a game without a real deep thing in it. given this fact it's a logical step for him to be released from the game development. he still is the ffxi producer. abyssea rocks and i wouldnt have any other producer for this game. guess anak gets a bit old.
and: job battle designer is now the same as in ffxi. that's gonna rock.
This game is now officially B2P. They have not said it, but it is. Unless SE can perform a miracle, there is no way they will ever be able to say the game is now good enough to charge a subscription. By that time, even the few remaining that are still regularly playing will probably have had enough of the game and will just move on to a new game instead of paying the sub fee.
I stated it before that this game would never see the light of day on the PS3 and signs are definately starting to point in that direction. I would lay money down on the table that Sony stepped in and refused to allow FFXIV to be released on the PS3 because of the less than stellar reception of this game, and this "delay" is a result of SE's promise to Sony that they would fix the game.
I really think they would be far better off to just close down the servers, refund everyone's Crysta, state there will never be a PS3 version because they are going back to the drawing board to make a great PC-only MMO with a real UI, and have a brand-new relaunch in 2 years. Hell, by that time, maybe everyone's computers will be powerful enough to actually run this game at a decent framerate.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
well we have the ffxi team on ffxiv now finally. GG time to own!
For me this isn't saying much. I hated FFXI, the grind was ridiculous in that game. I didn't buy FFXIV and if it's more of the same from the FFXI team (as in if they turn it into the same old grindy FFXI with better graphics) then I STILL won't be buying it when they 'fix' it.
Through all the scarcasm of some, and hopefulness of others, i will say how I feel. SE JACKED THIS GAME/ALPHA/BETA/LAUNCH DATE/EVERYTHING SINCE LAUNCH UP BIG TIME! but, instead of going "hey, we've been #1 before, and we can get there again just by doing what we do." they realized what they were doing was doing 2 things.
1:killing the most noted game in rpg history. even if we all disagree on if this games is palyable, still viable, or whatever, we all agree on one thing....for the most part (and i've tried to count...if i'm wrong please forgive my numbers) but at least 70 or more percentage of us have at one point played final fantasy or a square rpg in general. for me i played FF1....on nintendo....many moons ago, and once i played i was ready to see what was next. i got FFII (or JPIV) on snes then III (JP VI) and so on....as i know most of you did...i doubt if there were alot of people who saw an FF game at some point in their life on here and go "i'm not going to try it." they all had different stories, different characters, different ways of getting you in. that was the magic, that was the lure...and in a way...that was the rub here, they thought that would be enough, they thought "we've done this before plenty." and they went on like busniess as usual.
with the exception of X-2 and XII (i loved IX and XIII i don't care what you think :-P) i have never been this disappointed in SE....ok...put chrono cross on there too, but either way i've never been this....saddened at a SE game. this with no doubt will go down as one of the worst mmo launches in history...and they are to blame....no excuses...no roundabout. they did it, to themselves and to fans. they went if i can coin phrases, from mild discouragement, to angry consumers, to a damn near revolt. they are giving this away for free because they know good and hell well they can't get anyone in their right mind to pay for it in this state. they are cleaning house because they had a bunch of guys going "oh we got things under control." and almost singlehandedly sunk one of the most tried and tested names in rpg's. they seriously almost killed a game name i've known since most of us were kids, it's like saying "they cancelled all mario games for life." some of us...would lose our minds.
2:they realized the "game" as it is....has changed drasticly since XI came out 8+ years ago, this is a newer age since then, information travels faster, and in whatever circle you are in, it will spread quicker than the clap at thai gangbang. what one could "get away with" 8 years ago, won't fly no no matter what the circumstance. and frankly due to the fact that everyone on every type of thing everywhere thinks that just because they are behind a keyboard and hiding behing user names and game avatars, they are in automatic "god mode"and will go for the throat even when not nessasary, SE probably got killed even more than what was deserved. did they deserve a bashing, hell yes even by the most astute of eyes...but some of you guys (hell even me once or twice) were just worse than a cowboy at a baby cow slaugterhouse.
some of it had me laughing so hard i was crying, but alot of it either came from the fact you're so anti-anything anyone likes you had to jump on the banwagon, or the fact that out of pure distain for whatever reason you wanted the game to fail so you could sit on a website and go "na na na na na!"...most people bashing half the games on here (FF, DCU, STO, TOR, and a handful of others.) not only haven't played....beta or otherwise, but are just basing opinion on what they've read...or seen someone else say. it's trolling in it's purest form imo. which i'm only pointing out, because i've done it too ...and i'm ashamed of my actions....admittance is the first step to my recovery. i actually read a full OP's thread on how the tanking and power system on DCU sucked, he'd never even seen it in action.
my point is, you can have a stance on something, whether you have full knowledge or not...and because of the internet, you can spread that opinion like jam over toast. which is what SOME did, alot of people from playing the beta, or the released copy had a very informed and valid opinion on why it was/ is/ in their opinion will probably still be horrible, but alot of guys just took what they said and went "yeah plus it's not wow." or some dumb shit.
bottom line....SE read alot of it....they didn't have a choice...it got to their precious fan sites even...and the CEO was looking for heads to chop off, so tanaka in pure samurai fourm fell on his sword. but in this case, he was ...incompetent...he failed to keep the flagship from getting boarded by pirates, so he and most his crew had to take the fall. will square right the ship, hopefully, some of you think it's too late...but christ it came out in september, it's only december.....that's 3 months, they never had a margin of error for some of you. it was supposed to be top notch from out the gate, but none of us (myself included) had no useful points other than "make an AH." or "fix the UI." and if there's that much wrong that you have an opinion on...you'd think at least you'd have a solution...because you're making sound like you did. so...if you're waiting to see what hapens to improve it...fine, if youre just gonna sit here and keep kicking the dead horse because it's fun...have at it ...me myself, i want to see them improve this damn game....because even if it's "free until further notice" it's still a brand name and game i like. and if i'm a hopeless "fanboi" because i want to see them fix it, well....guess that's me.
..........., some of you think it's too late...but christ it came out in september, it's only december.....that's 3 months, they never had a margin of error for some of you. it was supposed to be top notch from out the gate, but none of us (myself included) had no useful points other than "make an AH." or "fix the UI." and if there's that much wrong that you have an opinion on...you'd think at least you'd have a solution...because you're making sound like you did. so...if you're waiting to see what hapens to improve it...fine, if youre just gonna sit here and keep kicking the dead horse because it's fun...have at it ...me myself, i want to see them improve this damn game....because even if it's "free until further notice" it's still a brand name and game i like. and if i'm a hopeless "fanboi" because i want to see them fix it, well....guess that's me.
Eh not true. There were a lot of us saying fix the slow and unresonsive combat system and add some actual content. The UI I could handle, an AH would be nice. Having something more to do than grind wharf rats and other various animals (or just as pointlessly play slow and unresponsive mini games in that weird system they call crafting) is all I wanted.
If I were paid I would come up with a deeper list of what I would like to see remedy this, but on their forums and elsewhere I put my 2 cents and have no desire to try and think I can scream at the computer and many any more changes happen.
As far as the game becoming B2P for now goes, they did not say the game will stay free until it is complete- they specifically said the game will be free until they can provide us with a concrete plan that tells us where the game is headed.
There is a new team in charge, and even if they are working on it as we speak it will take time for the changed plan to shape up. It can take two weeks, it can take longer. Right now all we know is that this new plan makes the updates happen at a faster frequency than before (which does not necessarily mean there will be more changes than before- just paced differently).
PC players will probably be paying a sub fee months before PS3 version is released.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The day they do something really worthwhile, a lot of players will keep quiet. But trying to put positive spin on everything that SE does as 'they care' is also not fooling anyone. The complaints haven't changed they are still they same as they were during closed beta. if you are expecting thanks or sympathy then it is not going to happen. SE got what it deserved.
Not everyone here follows SE blindly and atleast i saw this coming.
See... this is what I'm talking about.
So let's see...
They've apologized numerous times.
They've not charged anyone a single subscription fee 'til now and are not going to until some point in the future when they feel it's warranted.
They have indicated, time and again, that the game launched in a non-ready state.
They have stated that major changes have to take place to bring the game back.
They have stated that they know they have to win back the players' trust if the game is to succeed.
The Producer has admitted failure in taking the game in the right direction, has stepped down and let someone else take their place.
They're re-organizing the team, shuffling around some positions, bringing in new people from other projects, etc to get it on the right track.
They've done everything - and more - that players of other MMOs have stated "would be satisfactory" from the developers in the fall-out of their launches. Those are the key things that, time and again, players have stated would make them feel better about the situation, for FFXIV *and* for other MMOs with similarly poor launches.
And yet, when SE does *just that*... it's "still not enough" for some. They move the goalpost and set the bar higher.
Does the FFXIV development team have to personally visit everyone who bought the game, kneel at their feet and beg forgiveness over and over?
The truth is, regardless of what they do, it never *will* be enough for some people.
That's my point. Thank you for helping me make it.
Even if they get the game to the point of being "perfect" (note the quotations there), and it's everything players expected and more. There are some who would *still* say "Nope... Too little too late. They should have released the game like this at launch. The game is a failure and they should just admit they failed and pull the plug".
No, sympathy and thanks are not "necessary", nor have I ever indicated such. Don't put words in my mouth.
However, I think some acknowledgment that "Hey.. they're not blowing us off, they are taking it seriously, they are doing what they can to fix it... and we're not paying a sub in the meantime" would be appropriate. I'm not saying pull out the champaign and party-poppers. I'm saying some recognition that they're actually not blowing everything and everyone off wouldn't be out-of-line.
But that's too much for some, apparently. If SE said/did nothing it would be "They're too arrogant! They don't care about their game or their players! They want the game to fail!". However, when they demonstrate that they do care about the players, that they don't want the game to fail and that they want it to succeed... then it's "not enough".
Some people aren't truly interested in seeing things improve. They don't really want an apology, nor do they care if they get one. They just want to complain and see others squirm as they keep kicking them. For some - not all - that's all this boils down to.
As for your last statement.. Careful on your high horse. *Most* people acknowledge the issues the game has. *Many* people in Alpha and Beta stated things weren't looking ready and the game needed more time. Yes, I was there and yes I read the beta forums. If anything, over time, the people who thought "everythign was fine" were outnumbered by those who thought it wasn't.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The problem is they still released the game. The only way to fix this game is to scrap it and build it from scratch, if all they are gonna do is tweak things around, then its a waste of time. Game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
The problem is they still released the game. The only way to fix this game is to scrap it and build it from scratch, if all they are gonna do is tweak things around, then its a waste of time. Game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
They have not once said that they are simply tweaking things around.
They are basically rebuilding the game from scratch, from the UI and progression system to economy and who knows what else now.
They do not need to take the game down to accomplish these things. And even if they were to change something as drastic as the game engine, they can simply let us download the client again when it is done.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The problem is they still released the game. The only way to fix this game is to scrap it and build it from scratch, if all they are gonna do is tweak things around, then its a waste of time. Game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
No, the problem is they released the game too soon, and they didn't pay enough attention to the feedback they received on a few major issues, nor spend as much time as they should have addressing them.
Those are all things they can, and are, dealing with.
The entire game isn't broken.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So far they've done exactly what needs to be done to recover, but the bitching won't end before the goal is reached.
It won't end afterward, either. In fact.. It'll never end. Somewhere down the line, we'll still see people here complaining about things that happened years earlier and were long-resolved as though they were still current events.
It's not reasonable to expect it to end either, but it is not reasonable to criticize them for their post-release actions so far as well.
Again, all some people are interested in is complaining. Nothing SE does will be "good enough". As each issue is resolved, they'll just move on to another one to complain about. That's what happens with every other MMO out there... no reason XIV should be any different.
This is absolutely all they can do. They can't change the past. They can only affect the present and the future. And they did.
... well... they are working to affect the future. They haven't yet.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I get the beta players could provide feedback on the beta fourms. How do we provide feedback now? Sice the beta fourm have been taken down. How do I know my voice is being heard?
It won't end afterward, either. In fact.. It'll never end. Somewhere down the line, we'll still see people here complaining about things that happened years earlier and were long-resolved as though they were still current events.
I agree, but until these things are actually resolved there is a good reason to bitch.
Again, all some people are interested in is complaining. Nothing SE does will be "good enough". As each issue is resolved, they'll just move on to another one to complain about. That's what happens with every other MMO out there... no reason XIV should be any different.
Right now complaining about the complainers is pretty meaningless though. Once the issues are fixed then we can rant all we want about it, but now they still have a long way to go and only one major patch has been applied.
... well... they are working to affect the future. They haven't yet.
Precisely.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I get the beta players could provide feedback on the beta fourms. How do we provide feedback now? Sice the beta fourm have been taken down. How do I know my voice is being heard?
The problem is they still released the game. The only way to fix this game is to scrap it and build it from scratch, if all they are gonna do is tweak things around, then its a waste of time. Game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
No, the problem is they released the game too soon, and they didn't pay enough attention to the feedback they received on a few major issues, nor spend as much time as they should have addressing them.
Those are all things they can, and are, dealing with.
The entire game isn't broken.
Im not sure i agree, the entire game probably is broken, at the very least, a substantial part of it, SE are in full emergency action mode at the moment, it has to all intents and purposes, returned to 'beta', after all, their not charging for game play, and the PS3 version has been postponed until further notice, its not even guaranteed for 2011! and given the most recent PCGamer review where it scored a horrifying 30 and was described as Shallow, Slow, grind heavy crippled by a horrible interface and nonsensical player limitations.... the sheer number of problems with FFXIV beggars belief, the only real positive aspect of this, is that SE finally realise just how bad their game is, and are going to do their best to fix it.. in all honesty, i expect that fix to take a minimum of 6 months.. and by the end of it.. the game will need to be radically different to its present form, the only question is, how patient are the existing players, and what will happen when other 'less broken' games are released next year, for SE's sake, they need for their players to be extremely patient... the number of games that have survived bad launches... well the figures don't make for good reading.. and no amount of spin is going to make these issues more palatable.
Well, this just proves that you can't afford to release a game too early no matter how nice you are with excuses and not charge the players any fees.
But MMO players are often not so forgiving, I guess it is because this isn't the first game someone releases a game in horrible shape and SE should have known better.
I am impressed with how they handled things now, but I heard warning bells before launch and never bought the game and I don't feel really tempted to do it right now either.
GW2, Rift, TOR and TERA better be in great shape, because people are getting madder and madder for every game that releases in bad shape, if FF XIV would have been the first I think people would have been more understanding. Now the games just don't get a second chance.
But it was still stupid of SE to not move back the release date, if they just checked on other games with the same problem they would have seen how much it actually cost to release a game before it is ready for release. I don't think most of the players ever will forgive them for that.
But MMO players are often not so forgiving, I guess it is because this isn't the first game someone releases a game in horrible shape and SE should have known better.
Which is why I hope they'll try to focus on the non-MMO players instead. MMO players make a good foundation, but everyone can't just use the same pool of players to build their playerbase. SE needs to bring FF players to the game, MMO players will just play other games instead.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
They've not charged anyone a single subscription fee 'til now and are not going to until some point in the future when they feel it's warranted.
They have indicated, time and again, that the game launched in a non-ready state.
They have stated that major changes have to take place to bring the game back.
They have stated that they know they have to win back the players' trust if the game is to succeed.
The Producer has admitted failure in taking the game in the right direction, has stepped down and let someone else take their place.
They're re-organizing the team, shuffling around some positions, bringing in new people from other projects, etc to get it on the right track.
They've done everything - and more - that players of other MMOs have stated "would be satisfactory" from the developers in the fall-out of their launches. Those are the key things that, time and again, players have stated would make them feel better about the situation, for FFXIV *and* for other MMOs with similarly poor launches.
And yet, when SE does *just that*... it's "still not enough" for some. They move the goalpost and set the bar higher.
Does the FFXIV development team have to personally visit everyone who bought the game, kneel at their feet and beg forgiveness over and over?
The truth is, regardless of what they do, it never *will* be enough for some people.
That's my point. Thank you for helping me make it.
Even if they get the game to the point of being "perfect" (note the quotations there), and it's everything players expected and more. There are some who would *still* say "Nope... Too little too late. They should have released the game like this at launch. The game is a failure and they should just admit they failed and pull the plug".
No, sympathy and thanks are not "necessary", nor have I ever indicated such. Don't put words in my mouth.
However, I think some acknowledgment that "Hey.. they're not blowing us off, they are taking it seriously, they are doing what they can to fix it... and we're not paying a sub in the meantime" would be appropriate. I'm not saying pull out the champaign and party-poppers. I'm saying some recognition that they're actually not blowing everything and everyone off wouldn't be out-of-line.
But that's too much for some, apparently. If SE said/did nothing it would be "They're too arrogant! They don't care about their game or their players! They want the game to fail!". However, when they demonstrate that they do care about the players, that they don't want the game to fail and that they want it to succeed... then it's "not enough".
Some people aren't truly interested in seeing things improve. They don't really want an apology, nor do they care if they get one. They just want to complain and see others squirm as they keep kicking them. For some - not all - that's all this boils down to.
As for your last statement.. Careful on your high horse. *Most* people acknowledge the issues the game has. *Many* people in Alpha and Beta stated things weren't looking ready and the game needed more time. Yes, I was there and yes I read the beta forums. If anything, over time, the people who thought "everythign was fine" were outnumbered by those who thought it wasn't.
Are you surprised? MMO players are not forgiving. Once you botch the launch, there is no way to rise up to the par. A company can try its best and make all the changes they can but in the eyes of MMO players it will never ever be good enough is it unfair? maybe but that is how it is and this is not going to change anytime sooner.
SE had all the warnings and feedback it needed in clsoed beta but they went ahead and released the game anyways. I guess that is what makes players angry the most. And now SE can make excuses, apologies and what not but i don't think it is going to make much difference in changing players opinions. This is not the first MMO by the way where huge changes in development teams were made so it is not as if SE is doing something special.
Moreover, don't confuse will with want. If SE could they would be charging us monthly fee right now. They are not doing it out of good will or because they care. They just don't have enough players in game left to charge a monthly fee. Once subscription cycle comes into effect they will further lose players.
Also, i disagree that players who thought 'everything is fine' were outnumbered by those who thought it wasn't. Fans were running rampant and snubbing anyone who was trying to criticise the game. They were told to go away and stop playing and this went on well for good two months and look where are we now. All those critics and unhappy players took advice of rabid fans and they left. All this time, fans have been blaming everyone except for the company itself.
If reviews are low because it is biased or reviewing websites are unprofessional. if someone is unhappy it is because they are playing the game wrong, if players think there is too much time sink, they are just 'WOW babies', if someone is looking for more quests and content they should just 'go back to WOW'. .and i can give you numerous examples of typical fanboyism. So i can totally understand where all this anger is coming from.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I think the problem is the cost of the box. If they had not launched no one would have spent that money. That is hard premise to gain sympathy or understanding.They sold it and got money knowing the condition of the game. That is the reason more than anything that makes people mad.
The bottom line is they re doing something no company has done in the history of MMOs, or at least to my knowledge. The fact they re not charging anyone until they feel it s warranted, is admitting they f'd up and are not going to charge anyone till they ve fixed it. I can salute that for this, and will now give it another shot just on this alone. I truly think it will become the game I was hoping for, when, not sure, but it will one day soon.
I think the problem is the cost of the box. If they had not launched no one would have spent that money. That is hard premise to gain sympathy or understanding.They sold it and got money knowing the condition of the game. That is the reason more than anything that makes people mad.
Yet those who spent their money did so knowing the condition of the game. And if they did not know the condition of the game, why did they spend their money on it? In fact, it would have been very irrational of them, even more-so considering the free test they all could have participated in and gotten feedback from other players, or they could have just waited for the reviews or feelings of those who did buy the game either way.
I don't think anyone should be mad if people willingly bought the game in it's current state, no matter the reasons for it. They either thought the game was fine, or did the irrational and bought it despite all the evidence that pointed against it, in which case they don't need no sympathy for acting dumb.
In the end there was no one forcing anyone to go to the shop and buy the game. If SE got money from those who thought the game is good enough, what is so bad about that? Dumb people got tricked, that is not for SE to blame.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The bottom line is they re doing something no company has done in the history of MMOs, or at least to my knowledge. The fact they re not charging anyone until they feel it s warranted, is admitting they f'd up and are not going to charge anyone till they ve fixed it. I can salute that for this, and will now give it another shot just on this alone. I truly think it will become the game I was hoping for, when, not sure, but it will one day soon.
Its not like SE has 200K+ players in game right now and they decided to hold of charging fee. They are not charging any money because they don't have enough players in game. Population has been dwindling for two months now and i would be very generous if i say that there are active 100K players in game right now. Charging monthly fee means losing whatever player base is left. So you might look at it some kind of good gesture towards the players, but in my opinion its more of a helpless feeling.
The bottom line is they re doing something no company has done in the history of MMOs, or at least to my knowledge. The fact they re not charging anyone until they feel it s warranted, is admitting they f'd up and are not going to charge anyone till they ve fixed it. I can salute that for this, and will now give it another shot just on this alone. I truly think it will become the game I was hoping for, when, not sure, but it will one day soon.
Its not like SE has 200K+ players in game right now and they decided to hold of charging fee. They are not charging any money because they don't have enough players in game. Population has been dwindling for two months now and i would be very generous if i say that there are active 100K players in game right now. Charging monthly fee means losing whatever player base is left. So you might look at it some kind of good gesture towards the players, but in my opinion its more of a helpless feeling.
You can look at it that way, sure. I still think they re truly wanting people to return, and I can tell you I know plenty people willing to return because of this. I agree it shouldn t have released in this state, but thats done now. What they re doing is impressive, and as I said, many people will give them another shot because of it.
Comments
tanaka knows how to do a good game. but he failed big on this one. i like him but nevertheless he gave out a game without a real deep thing in it. given this fact it's a logical step for him to be released from the game development. he still is the ffxi producer. abyssea rocks and i wouldnt have any other producer for this game. guess anak gets a bit old.
and: job battle designer is now the same as in ffxi. that's gonna rock.
This game is now officially B2P. They have not said it, but it is. Unless SE can perform a miracle, there is no way they will ever be able to say the game is now good enough to charge a subscription. By that time, even the few remaining that are still regularly playing will probably have had enough of the game and will just move on to a new game instead of paying the sub fee.
I stated it before that this game would never see the light of day on the PS3 and signs are definately starting to point in that direction. I would lay money down on the table that Sony stepped in and refused to allow FFXIV to be released on the PS3 because of the less than stellar reception of this game, and this "delay" is a result of SE's promise to Sony that they would fix the game.
I really think they would be far better off to just close down the servers, refund everyone's Crysta, state there will never be a PS3 version because they are going back to the drawing board to make a great PC-only MMO with a real UI, and have a brand-new relaunch in 2 years. Hell, by that time, maybe everyone's computers will be powerful enough to actually run this game at a decent framerate.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
For me this isn't saying much. I hated FFXI, the grind was ridiculous in that game. I didn't buy FFXIV and if it's more of the same from the FFXI team (as in if they turn it into the same old grindy FFXI with better graphics) then I STILL won't be buying it when they 'fix' it.
I quit playing after the first month. They kept announcing free time, and I didn't bother.
I finally went back today and it's a ghost town. I don't even care if they fixed the things that annoyed me now.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
Through all the scarcasm of some, and hopefulness of others, i will say how I feel. SE JACKED THIS GAME/ALPHA/BETA/LAUNCH DATE/EVERYTHING SINCE LAUNCH UP BIG TIME! but, instead of going "hey, we've been #1 before, and we can get there again just by doing what we do." they realized what they were doing was doing 2 things.
1:killing the most noted game in rpg history. even if we all disagree on if this games is palyable, still viable, or whatever, we all agree on one thing....for the most part (and i've tried to count...if i'm wrong please forgive my numbers) but at least 70 or more percentage of us have at one point played final fantasy or a square rpg in general. for me i played FF1....on nintendo....many moons ago, and once i played i was ready to see what was next. i got FFII (or JPIV) on snes then III (JP VI) and so on....as i know most of you did...i doubt if there were alot of people who saw an FF game at some point in their life on here and go "i'm not going to try it." they all had different stories, different characters, different ways of getting you in. that was the magic, that was the lure...and in a way...that was the rub here, they thought that would be enough, they thought "we've done this before plenty." and they went on like busniess as usual.
with the exception of X-2 and XII (i loved IX and XIII i don't care what you think :-P) i have never been this disappointed in SE....ok...put chrono cross on there too, but either way i've never been this....saddened at a SE game. this with no doubt will go down as one of the worst mmo launches in history...and they are to blame....no excuses...no roundabout. they did it, to themselves and to fans. they went if i can coin phrases, from mild discouragement, to angry consumers, to a damn near revolt. they are giving this away for free because they know good and hell well they can't get anyone in their right mind to pay for it in this state. they are cleaning house because they had a bunch of guys going "oh we got things under control." and almost singlehandedly sunk one of the most tried and tested names in rpg's. they seriously almost killed a game name i've known since most of us were kids, it's like saying "they cancelled all mario games for life." some of us...would lose our minds.
2:they realized the "game" as it is....has changed drasticly since XI came out 8+ years ago, this is a newer age since then, information travels faster, and in whatever circle you are in, it will spread quicker than the clap at thai gangbang. what one could "get away with" 8 years ago, won't fly no no matter what the circumstance. and frankly due to the fact that everyone on every type of thing everywhere thinks that just because they are behind a keyboard and hiding behing user names and game avatars, they are in automatic "god mode"and will go for the throat even when not nessasary, SE probably got killed even more than what was deserved. did they deserve a bashing, hell yes even by the most astute of eyes...but some of you guys (hell even me once or twice) were just worse than a cowboy at a baby cow slaugterhouse.
some of it had me laughing so hard i was crying, but alot of it either came from the fact you're so anti-anything anyone likes you had to jump on the banwagon, or the fact that out of pure distain for whatever reason you wanted the game to fail so you could sit on a website and go "na na na na na!"...most people bashing half the games on here (FF, DCU, STO, TOR, and a handful of others.) not only haven't played....beta or otherwise, but are just basing opinion on what they've read...or seen someone else say. it's trolling in it's purest form imo. which i'm only pointing out, because i've done it too ...and i'm ashamed of my actions....admittance is the first step to my recovery. i actually read a full OP's thread on how the tanking and power system on DCU sucked, he'd never even seen it in action.
my point is, you can have a stance on something, whether you have full knowledge or not...and because of the internet, you can spread that opinion like jam over toast. which is what SOME did, alot of people from playing the beta, or the released copy had a very informed and valid opinion on why it was/ is/ in their opinion will probably still be horrible, but alot of guys just took what they said and went "yeah plus it's not wow." or some dumb shit.
bottom line....SE read alot of it....they didn't have a choice...it got to their precious fan sites even...and the CEO was looking for heads to chop off, so tanaka in pure samurai fourm fell on his sword. but in this case, he was ...incompetent...he failed to keep the flagship from getting boarded by pirates, so he and most his crew had to take the fall. will square right the ship, hopefully, some of you think it's too late...but christ it came out in september, it's only december.....that's 3 months, they never had a margin of error for some of you. it was supposed to be top notch from out the gate, but none of us (myself included) had no useful points other than "make an AH." or "fix the UI." and if there's that much wrong that you have an opinion on...you'd think at least you'd have a solution...because you're making sound like you did. so...if you're waiting to see what hapens to improve it...fine, if youre just gonna sit here and keep kicking the dead horse because it's fun...have at it ...me myself, i want to see them improve this damn game....because even if it's "free until further notice" it's still a brand name and game i like. and if i'm a hopeless "fanboi" because i want to see them fix it, well....guess that's me.
Played:FFXI, WoW, LOTR,EQ. Playing:FFXIV.
Looking Forward To:DCU, SWTOR.
Eh not true. There were a lot of us saying fix the slow and unresonsive combat system and add some actual content. The UI I could handle, an AH would be nice. Having something more to do than grind wharf rats and other various animals (or just as pointlessly play slow and unresponsive mini games in that weird system they call crafting) is all I wanted.
If I were paid I would come up with a deeper list of what I would like to see remedy this, but on their forums and elsewhere I put my 2 cents and have no desire to try and think I can scream at the computer and many any more changes happen.
As far as the game becoming B2P for now goes, they did not say the game will stay free until it is complete- they specifically said the game will be free until they can provide us with a concrete plan that tells us where the game is headed.
There is a new team in charge, and even if they are working on it as we speak it will take time for the changed plan to shape up. It can take two weeks, it can take longer. Right now all we know is that this new plan makes the updates happen at a faster frequency than before (which does not necessarily mean there will be more changes than before- just paced differently).
PC players will probably be paying a sub fee months before PS3 version is released.
See... this is what I'm talking about.
So let's see...
They've apologized numerous times.
They've not charged anyone a single subscription fee 'til now and are not going to until some point in the future when they feel it's warranted.
They have indicated, time and again, that the game launched in a non-ready state.
They have stated that major changes have to take place to bring the game back.
They have stated that they know they have to win back the players' trust if the game is to succeed.
The Producer has admitted failure in taking the game in the right direction, has stepped down and let someone else take their place.
They're re-organizing the team, shuffling around some positions, bringing in new people from other projects, etc to get it on the right track.
They've done everything - and more - that players of other MMOs have stated "would be satisfactory" from the developers in the fall-out of their launches. Those are the key things that, time and again, players have stated would make them feel better about the situation, for FFXIV *and* for other MMOs with similarly poor launches.
And yet, when SE does *just that*... it's "still not enough" for some. They move the goalpost and set the bar higher.
Does the FFXIV development team have to personally visit everyone who bought the game, kneel at their feet and beg forgiveness over and over?
The truth is, regardless of what they do, it never *will* be enough for some people.
That's my point. Thank you for helping me make it.
Even if they get the game to the point of being "perfect" (note the quotations there), and it's everything players expected and more. There are some who would *still* say "Nope... Too little too late. They should have released the game like this at launch. The game is a failure and they should just admit they failed and pull the plug".
No, sympathy and thanks are not "necessary", nor have I ever indicated such. Don't put words in my mouth.
However, I think some acknowledgment that "Hey.. they're not blowing us off, they are taking it seriously, they are doing what they can to fix it... and we're not paying a sub in the meantime" would be appropriate. I'm not saying pull out the champaign and party-poppers. I'm saying some recognition that they're actually not blowing everything and everyone off wouldn't be out-of-line.
But that's too much for some, apparently. If SE said/did nothing it would be "They're too arrogant! They don't care about their game or their players! They want the game to fail!". However, when they demonstrate that they do care about the players, that they don't want the game to fail and that they want it to succeed... then it's "not enough".
Some people aren't truly interested in seeing things improve. They don't really want an apology, nor do they care if they get one. They just want to complain and see others squirm as they keep kicking them. For some - not all - that's all this boils down to.
As for your last statement.. Careful on your high horse. *Most* people acknowledge the issues the game has. *Many* people in Alpha and Beta stated things weren't looking ready and the game needed more time. Yes, I was there and yes I read the beta forums. If anything, over time, the people who thought "everythign was fine" were outnumbered by those who thought it wasn't.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So far they've done exactly what needs to be done to recover, but the bitching won't end before the goal is reached.
It's not reasonable to expect it to end either, but it is not reasonable to criticize them for their post-release actions so far as well.
This is absolutely all they can do. They can't change the past. They can only affect the present and the future. And they did.
The problem is they still released the game. The only way to fix this game is to scrap it and build it from scratch, if all they are gonna do is tweak things around, then its a waste of time. Game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
They have not once said that they are simply tweaking things around.
They are basically rebuilding the game from scratch, from the UI and progression system to economy and who knows what else now.
They do not need to take the game down to accomplish these things. And even if they were to change something as drastic as the game engine, they can simply let us download the client again when it is done.
No, the problem is they released the game too soon, and they didn't pay enough attention to the feedback they received on a few major issues, nor spend as much time as they should have addressing them.
Those are all things they can, and are, dealing with.
The entire game isn't broken.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I get the beta players could provide feedback on the beta fourms. How do we provide feedback now? Sice the beta fourm have been taken down. How do I know my voice is being heard?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=902&la=1
They also frequently read the Premier Site forums, which have their own feedback sections. Ex. ffxiv.zam.com and ffxivcore.com
Im not sure i agree, the entire game probably is broken, at the very least, a substantial part of it, SE are in full emergency action mode at the moment, it has to all intents and purposes, returned to 'beta', after all, their not charging for game play, and the PS3 version has been postponed until further notice, its not even guaranteed for 2011! and given the most recent PCGamer review where it scored a horrifying 30 and was described as Shallow, Slow, grind heavy crippled by a horrible interface and nonsensical player limitations.... the sheer number of problems with FFXIV beggars belief, the only real positive aspect of this, is that SE finally realise just how bad their game is, and are going to do their best to fix it.. in all honesty, i expect that fix to take a minimum of 6 months.. and by the end of it.. the game will need to be radically different to its present form, the only question is, how patient are the existing players, and what will happen when other 'less broken' games are released next year, for SE's sake, they need for their players to be extremely patient... the number of games that have survived bad launches... well the figures don't make for good reading.. and no amount of spin is going to make these issues more palatable.
Well, this just proves that you can't afford to release a game too early no matter how nice you are with excuses and not charge the players any fees.
But MMO players are often not so forgiving, I guess it is because this isn't the first game someone releases a game in horrible shape and SE should have known better.
I am impressed with how they handled things now, but I heard warning bells before launch and never bought the game and I don't feel really tempted to do it right now either.
GW2, Rift, TOR and TERA better be in great shape, because people are getting madder and madder for every game that releases in bad shape, if FF XIV would have been the first I think people would have been more understanding. Now the games just don't get a second chance.
But it was still stupid of SE to not move back the release date, if they just checked on other games with the same problem they would have seen how much it actually cost to release a game before it is ready for release. I don't think most of the players ever will forgive them for that.
Which is why I hope they'll try to focus on the non-MMO players instead. MMO players make a good foundation, but everyone can't just use the same pool of players to build their playerbase. SE needs to bring FF players to the game, MMO players will just play other games instead.
Are you surprised? MMO players are not forgiving. Once you botch the launch, there is no way to rise up to the par. A company can try its best and make all the changes they can but in the eyes of MMO players it will never ever be good enough is it unfair? maybe but that is how it is and this is not going to change anytime sooner.
SE had all the warnings and feedback it needed in clsoed beta but they went ahead and released the game anyways. I guess that is what makes players angry the most. And now SE can make excuses, apologies and what not but i don't think it is going to make much difference in changing players opinions. This is not the first MMO by the way where huge changes in development teams were made so it is not as if SE is doing something special.
Moreover, don't confuse will with want. If SE could they would be charging us monthly fee right now. They are not doing it out of good will or because they care. They just don't have enough players in game left to charge a monthly fee. Once subscription cycle comes into effect they will further lose players.
Also, i disagree that players who thought 'everything is fine' were outnumbered by those who thought it wasn't. Fans were running rampant and snubbing anyone who was trying to criticise the game. They were told to go away and stop playing and this went on well for good two months and look where are we now. All those critics and unhappy players took advice of rabid fans and they left. All this time, fans have been blaming everyone except for the company itself.
If reviews are low because it is biased or reviewing websites are unprofessional. if someone is unhappy it is because they are playing the game wrong, if players think there is too much time sink, they are just 'WOW babies', if someone is looking for more quests and content they should just 'go back to WOW'. .and i can give you numerous examples of typical fanboyism. So i can totally understand where all this anger is coming from.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I think the problem is the cost of the box. If they had not launched no one would have spent that money. That is hard premise to gain sympathy or understanding.They sold it and got money knowing the condition of the game. That is the reason more than anything that makes people mad.
The bottom line is they re doing something no company has done in the history of MMOs, or at least to my knowledge. The fact they re not charging anyone until they feel it s warranted, is admitting they f'd up and are not going to charge anyone till they ve fixed it. I can salute that for this, and will now give it another shot just on this alone. I truly think it will become the game I was hoping for, when, not sure, but it will one day soon.
Yet those who spent their money did so knowing the condition of the game. And if they did not know the condition of the game, why did they spend their money on it? In fact, it would have been very irrational of them, even more-so considering the free test they all could have participated in and gotten feedback from other players, or they could have just waited for the reviews or feelings of those who did buy the game either way.
I don't think anyone should be mad if people willingly bought the game in it's current state, no matter the reasons for it. They either thought the game was fine, or did the irrational and bought it despite all the evidence that pointed against it, in which case they don't need no sympathy for acting dumb.
In the end there was no one forcing anyone to go to the shop and buy the game. If SE got money from those who thought the game is good enough, what is so bad about that? Dumb people got tricked, that is not for SE to blame.
Its not like SE has 200K+ players in game right now and they decided to hold of charging fee. They are not charging any money because they don't have enough players in game. Population has been dwindling for two months now and i would be very generous if i say that there are active 100K players in game right now. Charging monthly fee means losing whatever player base is left. So you might look at it some kind of good gesture towards the players, but in my opinion its more of a helpless feeling.
Bite Me
You can look at it that way, sure. I still think they re truly wanting people to return, and I can tell you I know plenty people willing to return because of this. I agree it shouldn t have released in this state, but thats done now. What they re doing is impressive, and as I said, many people will give them another shot because of it.