Well someone could disagree with me and tell me that "pvp isn't dying" but we all see how pvp is always an afterthought in the majority of mmorpg companies.Every game that comes out or any older one that tries to maintain its player base focuses mainly on PVE aspects.Even games that were created mainly for PvP eventually do that.
So for the ones that agree with me pls answer the poll. Anyone who doesn't feel that PVP is second rated by developers pls disagree in another post.
I agree with you that PvP is dying, and fast! In fact, imo PvP is not really PvP anymore but rather about who can gank who and get away with it. You have people spending hours on hours gathering items and armor for pvp but end up either being victims of gank fests or simply ganking others because that's just the system of things now.
In Aion (currently playing) they gimped rifting because people were getting ganked for a measly abyss point or simply for the heck of it the higher lvls would bully the lower lvls. So NCsoft implimented a buff after you go through a rift; and this buff weakens you significantly. Therefore you would find yourself getting beatup by someone that's significantly weaker than you. This has lead to no amsodians ever showing up in eltnen since I resubed 2 months ago (sad)
So this may just be my personal opinion, but I think what the older generation gamers call pvp has been or is being replaced by a counterfit, and thats ganking people for the heck of it or to make you feel big and mighty.
This is one of the reason the developers are gearing more towards pve because more people will tolerate a pve dominant game with a little pvp mix being made optional~
The PvP-centric game that is enjoying the most success right now is Eve Online. This is because everyone has access to all skills, provided they meet the prereqs. The players themselves are given the task of PvP balance.
EVE Online is hardly PVP centric with majority of players living in safe empire space and only 15% population in lawless areas.
PVP is big part of EVE Online but hardly makes it PVP centric. I think CCP realized long ago that if they develop the game as PVP centric it will die quickly like all others.
Also you are very illusional about EVE game balance. The game balance there is a joke currently. The game suffers balancing issues like any other game out there, always had and always will.
I couldn't agree more. I played eve from beta until late 2008 and several times since and in all that time there as been nerf , after nerf, after nerf. Balance always has been a problem and always will be. CCP has been slowly pushing everyone towards the pvp realm of things making it more and more difficult to not pvp.
There are just too many different play styles to try and cater to when it comes to mmo's. They are going to cater to the play style that makes them the most money and that is PVE and not PVP. Those that do, find themselves more of a niche game and end up destroying the game by adding things that werent meant to be in the game like crafting, PVE or things like that in an attempt to appeal to more people.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Well someone could disagree with me and tell me that "pvp isn't dying" but we all see how pvp is always an afterthought in the majority of mmorpg companies.Every game that comes out or any older one that tries to maintain its player base focuses mainly on PVE aspects.Even games that were created mainly for PvP eventually do that.
So for the ones that agree with me pls answer the poll. Anyone who doesn't feel that PVP is second rated by developers pls disagree in another post.
And where is the option "most games have badly implemented PvP" ?
Looking at GW2 which is going to be big we can also see a lot of focus being put on PvP.
I agree completely. In most mmos PvP is treated as an afterthought and is usually very poorly thought out both on the character vs character level as well as the conflict design one. Why this is so, I have no idea. Maybe because mmo designers usually have single-player rpg backgrounds and cannot/won't accept this essentially multiplayer paradigm that is PvP. Imo it is nigh time for an online fps company/designer to jump into the mmo bandwagon with their expertise and show the rpg crowd how to design an intrinsically multiplayer environment.
Back to subject, imo those few mmo games with well designed PvP component usually owe a large part of their success and especially longevity to it - DAoC and GW spring to mind.
In fact you can argue from history that well designed PvP is the most important factor in a game's long-term retention. Even the almighty WoW relies heavily on PvP for its endgame. Imo any mmo that neglects PvP and/or repeatable PvE content (aka "raiding" ) while relying heavily on story and "journey" will suffer greatly in the long run, especialy if its working on a subscription model.
Because people equate PvP somehow to griefing. It's like they think only bad things can happen to them (the player), but somehow they have no control to do anything back which seems to be their mentality anymore. Not to mention the population in general is getting softer. We have to change something or make a new rule everytime someone gets hurt or someones feelings are hurt. It's pretty sad..we've turned into big fat cry babies (The US). If you notice most games out of the US focus on PvP. . .
Because people equate PvP somehow to griefing. It's like they think only bad things can happen to them (the player), but somehow they have no control to do anything back which seems to be their mentality anymore. Not to mention the population in general is getting softer. We have to change something or make a new rule everytime someone gets hurt or someones feelings are hurt. It's pretty sad..we've turned into big fat cry babies (The US). If you notice most games out of the US focus on PvP. . .
There's a reason why some people equate PvP to griefing, and if your name is true to your actual history, then you should have a large hint as to why.
Because people equate PvP somehow to griefing. It's like they think only bad things can happen to them (the player), but somehow they have no control to do anything back which seems to be their mentality anymore. Not to mention the population in general is getting softer. We have to change something or make a new rule everytime someone gets hurt or someones feelings are hurt. It's pretty sad..we've turned into big fat cry babies (The US). If you notice most games out of the US focus on PvP. . .
There's a reason why some people equate PvP to griefing, and if your name is true to your actual history, then you should have a large hint as to why.
You now just witnessed another problem with our society. They assume too quickly. Yes, I started UO back in 97 but I was far from a griefer..I had friends that griefed so trust me on that . There were many times I would walk right past someone and NOT PK them if they looked like a new player or something (not to mention not all my chars were red anyway). Not everyone is a dick online, although most. Heck, there were many times I would kill someone and just take what I needed and leave the rest. I really don't remember getting "griefed" all that much in UO.
Certain guilds were assholes, most would kill you if you got close to your corpse while still looting, but for the most part there was a "respect" in many ways (Example - You get PKd and someone gives you gate/recall reags to get back to the bank so you can get home). This happened all the time.
Beleive it or not there was kind of an unwritten rule in older games in general when it came to being "polite" in a sense. Why? Usually because someone could do something to you back. Now? They can send you a message or it doesn't matter because the person you just killed 20x players on another server (oh, how we love cross server PvP........).
ps - realized maybe you weren't calling me a Griefer but you get the point ;D
I don't think it's any one reason. It's a combination of most of the points mentioned in this thread.
For myself, I stay away from PvP for mostly one reason: I hate dying. I understand it's part of video gaming, but when I play a single player game, whether it's a Half-life type game or The Witcher, from start to end, I might die a dozen times. That's not to say I'm not an uber player, as I tend to play them at the 'normal' setting.
I would say in those types of games there are hundreds if not thousands of fights. So, a dozen or two deaths spread out over that many gives me a win/loss ratio of about 98% or more. But even if I was a great PvPer, I would expect my win/loss ratio to be under 75%. That is simply unacceptable to me. It's too immersion killing.
You missed another big one - Developers don't develop for it.
Many games "offer" it, but in half ass'd ways and it basically is what it is. PvP seems to be an afterthought these days, not a major gameplay mechanic. Until that changes, games like CoD and HALO will continue to be the games of choice for PvPers. The market is undoubtedly there - the will to develop and market to it in an MMO isn't.
I play CoD, BC/BF, MoH, and more recently Crysis 2 for my PvP because quite simply (and part of the reason why FPS players consider "PvP" in an MMO a joke, or at least why I do) from the time of my very first spawn into a multiplayer map I can kill any of the other players there regardless of rank. My starting assault rifle/subgun/pistol etc is just as capable of killing the highest ranking player there as his weapon of choice used against me.
Even after the perk-fest CoD devolved into, nothing fundamentally stopped the newest private from getting a headshot on a prestige 15 in Black OPs if he happened to stuck his fat head around the wrong corner at the wrong time.
You cannot say the same about what passes for pvp in MMOs.
When an MMO finally recognizes that a knife or sword or club is just that, a big piece of metal or wood that you stabb or beat things with, that the most fantastically equiped warrior is still just a squishy, frail meat bag dressed up in a metal can, and that nothing can save you when someone puts a sword (rusty or shiny) through your neck. Even when that someone is a simple "level 1" farm hand. Maybe then things will change.
Levels. Gear. Whatever.
"Heart grow stronger, Will becomes firm, the Mind more calm, as our Strength lessens..." Battle of Maldon 991 AD
I play CoD, BC/BF, MoH, and more recently Crysis 2 for my PvP because quite simply (and part of the reason why FPS players consider "PvP" in an MMO a joke, or at least why I do) from the time of my very first spawn into a multiplayer map I can kill any of the other players there regardless of rank. My starting assault rifle/subgun/pistol etc is just as capable of killing the highest ranking player there as his weapon of choice used against me.
Have you even played Crysis 2? Level and gear mean more than you think, as do hacks - yes, the game is full of them.
As for the OP, PVP isn't dying, it just takes a lot more work than PVE to get right - and today's dev's are lazy. And hell, just look at most PVE games, even where PVP is tacked on as an afterthought almost half the pop are on PVP servers (until these pvp'ers realise how broke PVP is and promptly leave).
I play CoD, BC/BF, MoH, and more recently Crysis 2 for my PvP because quite simply (and part of the reason why FPS players consider "PvP" in an MMO a joke, or at least why I do) from the time of my very first spawn into a multiplayer map I can kill any of the other players there regardless of rank. My starting assault rifle/subgun/pistol etc is just as capable of killing the highest ranking player there as his weapon of choice used against me.
Have you even played Crysis 2? Level and gear mean more than you think, as do hacks - yes, the game is full of them.
As for the OP, PVP isn't dying, it just takes a lot more work than PVE to get right - and today's dev's are lazy. And hell, just look at most PVE games, even where PVP is tacked on as an afterthought almost half the pop are on PVP servers (until these pvp'ers realise how broke PVP is and promptly leave).
Yeah.....just finished my second multiplay session, maybe what 5th or 6th map total. Had my first session last night with just two or so maps. And yes, the last map I got the winning kill on what was presumably a much higher ranked player (looked like 5 stars in a pentagon pattern, dunno I was too busy shooting him in the face....with the stock gunner machinegun). So as a beginning level operative I have a positive kill/death ratio and positive win/loss ratio with an award for most damage done and most objective points. On maps with players easily many times my rank and with all the unlocks they have access too.
That is kinda the point. Death comes to everyone in FPS land (hackers being an exception but using that as a rational for downplaying the stark difference between FPS combat mechanics and MMORPG combat mechanics is really reaching...)
All the gear and unlocks do is give you a bit of an edge...if used properly. Will it save you? Nope. Does it make up for poor tactical decision making or poor teamwork? Nope. Everybody dies to everyone else. That is real PvP.
But then again I've played shooters since RTCW:ET & AO:Recon so maybe that's just my bias when i think and compare those games to the PvP action that I've seen in SWG or WoW or LOTRO, or more recently RIFT. Eve I've stuck to high sec space so dunno what the action is like there but I was playing just to see what a space based MMO was like.
In MMOs player level and gear IS everything. Not neccesarily in that order.
Put it this way. Can you imagine a level one toon being able to do enough damage to seriously hurt a max level character standing naked and doing nothing in return? In most MMOs the character's in-combat health regeneration (of the max level toon) would probably out heal any possible damage the lowbie toon could do.
If level and the associated gear wasn't an issue why do MMOs (with battlegrounds) split players up into level bands? Or, in LOTRO's Monster Play, restrict PvP to high level players?
"Heart grow stronger, Will becomes firm, the Mind more calm, as our Strength lessens..." Battle of Maldon 991 AD
Yeah.....just finished my second multiplay session, maybe what 5th or 6th map total. Had my first session last night with just two or so maps. And yes, the last map I got the winning kill on what was presumably a much higher ranked player (looked like 5 stars in a pentagon pattern, dunno I was too busy shooting him in the face....with the stock gunner machinegun). So as a beginning level operative I have a positive kill/death ratio and positive win/loss ratio with an award for most damage done and most objective points. On maps with players easily many times my rank and with all the unlocks they have access too.
All the gear and unlocks do is give you a bit of an edge...if used properly. Will it save you? Nope. Does it make up for poor tactical decision making or poor teamwork? Nope. Everybody dies to everyone else. That is real PvP.
But then again I've played shooters since RTCW:ET & AO:Recon so maybe that's just my bias when i think and compare those games to the PvP action that I've seen in SWG or WoW or LOTRO, or more recently RIFT. Eve I've stuck to high sec space so dunno what the action is like there but I was playing just to see what a space based MMO was like.
In MMOs player level and gear IS everything. Not neccesarily in that order.
Put it this way. Can you imagine a level one toon being able to do enough damage to seriously hurt a max level character standing naked and doing nothing in return? In most MMOs the character's in-combat health regeneration (of the max level toon) would probably out heal any possible damage the lowbie toon could do.
If level and the associated gear wasn't an issue why do MMOs (with battlegrounds) split players up into level bands? Or, in LOTRO's Monster Play, restrict PvP to high level players?
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with where you were coming from, I just found it funny that you used Crysis as an example of balanced PVP. IMO there are heaps of great FPS games that require skill, and don't have lame gear grinds, level discrepencies, nor stealth & other such crap, and have working anti cheat software etc thus making much better examples.
LOTRO is also the worst example of MMO PVP IMO, it was terrible.
As for gear being everything in MMO's, I'll meet you half way: gear is everything in most modern day MMO's. I remember being an undergeared low level (50) in AC1 and was able to often take on 2-3 higher level AND better geared opponents and win. That game also took a hell of a lot more strategy and teamwork than any FPS, and actually had meaningful and lasting consequences for defeat/victory. I'd also happily argue that it required more skill too, and wasn't just based on quick reflexes or insta-headshots.
Too bad MMO's have become nothing but lame gear grinds these days and where the PVP is nothing but a joke.
If PVP dies it's because only elitest douchebags PVP. It's like back in the day growing up. People if they fought it was one and one and once the fight was over things were settled. Now a days dozens of people gather around and spend more time talking shit and when they fight it's more so a slap fight just like in MMO's these days.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
I believe its because MMO's are becoming easier and easier, players are getting suckier and suckier, and theres no skill left for anyone to PvP with :x
Im affraid your second option in your poll is main reason why PvP is an after thought and for most games also a bad one.
Now adays you get some stupid battlegrounds or instance with CS gameplay get some mini pvp match conquer a flag or conquer a mount or hold a base its pathtic.
But its to please the majority who will other wise cry whole day on forums or ingame with CAPSLOCK screaming that they wanne be left alone while joining a pvp server or even a free for all pvp game they want safe gameplay SAD SAD but thats how it is these days:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The demand for balance is making PvP focused games fail. There is no such thing as balance but developers who pursue this misguided notion find themselves trapped in a never ending cycle of nerf's and buffs. Newer developers are realizing this and avoiding it altogehter by putting little focus on PvP. Trying to find balance in an MMO is like trying to find equality in life. It is a pipe dream that only a fool chases.
Thats also totally wrong assumption.
Its becouse of players these days who wanne enter a game if its a free for all full loot game or not be uber in no time.
But when a few players constantly gank/pk them they start whine and cry how unbalance the game is. Its not fault of developers specially in the true sandbox free for all pvp games, its players base where majority that start playing are eather carebear or terible with pvp but still wanne kick ass and result scream on forums that devs should chance game so they have chance lol.
Other think that influence specially the open free for all pvp games is cheating but thats another discussion.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
I agree with you that PvP is dying, and fast! In fact, imo PvP is not really PvP anymore but rather about who can gank who and get away with it. You have people spending hours on hours gathering items and armor for pvp but end up either being victims of gank fests or simply ganking others because that's just the system of things now.
In Aion (currently playing) they gimped rifting because people were getting ganked for a measly abyss point or simply for the heck of it the higher lvls would bully the lower lvls. So NCsoft implimented a buff after you go through a rift; and this buff weakens you significantly. Therefore you would find yourself getting beatup by someone that's significantly weaker than you. This has lead to no amsodians ever showing up in eltnen since I resubed 2 months ago (sad)
So this may just be my personal opinion, but I think what the older generation gamers call pvp has been or is being replaced by a counterfit, and thats ganking people for the heck of it or to make you feel big and mighty.
This is one of the reason the developers are gearing more towards pve because more people will tolerate a pve dominant game with a little pvp mix being made optional~
I couldn't agree more. I played eve from beta until late 2008 and several times since and in all that time there as been nerf , after nerf, after nerf. Balance always has been a problem and always will be. CCP has been slowly pushing everyone towards the pvp realm of things making it more and more difficult to not pvp.
There are just too many different play styles to try and cater to when it comes to mmo's. They are going to cater to the play style that makes them the most money and that is PVE and not PVP. Those that do, find themselves more of a niche game and end up destroying the game by adding things that werent meant to be in the game like crafting, PVE or things like that in an attempt to appeal to more people.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I agree completely. In most mmos PvP is treated as an afterthought and is usually very poorly thought out both on the character vs character level as well as the conflict design one. Why this is so, I have no idea. Maybe because mmo designers usually have single-player rpg backgrounds and cannot/won't accept this essentially multiplayer paradigm that is PvP. Imo it is nigh time for an online fps company/designer to jump into the mmo bandwagon with their expertise and show the rpg crowd how to design an intrinsically multiplayer environment.
Back to subject, imo those few mmo games with well designed PvP component usually owe a large part of their success and especially longevity to it - DAoC and GW spring to mind.
In fact you can argue from history that well designed PvP is the most important factor in a game's long-term retention. Even the almighty WoW relies heavily on PvP for its endgame. Imo any mmo that neglects PvP and/or repeatable PvE content (aka "raiding" ) while relying heavily on story and "journey" will suffer greatly in the long run, especialy if its working on a subscription model.
Because people equate PvP somehow to griefing. It's like they think only bad things can happen to them (the player), but somehow they have no control to do anything back which seems to be their mentality anymore. Not to mention the population in general is getting softer. We have to change something or make a new rule everytime someone gets hurt or someones feelings are hurt. It's pretty sad..we've turned into big fat cry babies (The US). If you notice most games out of the US focus on PvP. . .
There's a reason why some people equate PvP to griefing, and if your name is true to your actual history, then you should have a large hint as to why.
You now just witnessed another problem with our society. They assume too quickly. Yes, I started UO back in 97 but I was far from a griefer..I had friends that griefed so trust me on that
. There were many times I would walk right past someone and NOT PK them if they looked like a new player or something (not to mention not all my chars were red anyway). Not everyone is a dick online, although most. Heck, there were many times I would kill someone and just take what I needed and leave the rest. I really don't remember getting "griefed" all that much in UO.
Certain guilds were assholes, most would kill you if you got close to your corpse while still looting, but for the most part there was a "respect" in many ways (Example - You get PKd and someone gives you gate/recall reags to get back to the bank so you can get home). This happened all the time.
Beleive it or not there was kind of an unwritten rule in older games in general when it came to being "polite" in a sense. Why? Usually because someone could do something to you back. Now? They can send you a message or it doesn't matter because the person you just killed 20x players on another server (oh, how we love cross server PvP........).
ps - realized maybe you weren't calling me a Griefer but you get the point ;D
I don't think it's any one reason. It's a combination of most of the points mentioned in this thread.
For myself, I stay away from PvP for mostly one reason: I hate dying. I understand it's part of video gaming, but when I play a single player game, whether it's a Half-life type game or The Witcher, from start to end, I might die a dozen times. That's not to say I'm not an uber player, as I tend to play them at the 'normal' setting.
I would say in those types of games there are hundreds if not thousands of fights. So, a dozen or two deaths spread out over that many gives me a win/loss ratio of about 98% or more. But even if I was a great PvPer, I would expect my win/loss ratio to be under 75%. That is simply unacceptable to me. It's too immersion killing.
I play CoD, BC/BF, MoH, and more recently Crysis 2 for my PvP because quite simply (and part of the reason why FPS players consider "PvP" in an MMO a joke, or at least why I do) from the time of my very first spawn into a multiplayer map I can kill any of the other players there regardless of rank. My starting assault rifle/subgun/pistol etc is just as capable of killing the highest ranking player there as his weapon of choice used against me.
Even after the perk-fest CoD devolved into, nothing fundamentally stopped the newest private from getting a headshot on a prestige 15 in Black OPs if he happened to stuck his fat head around the wrong corner at the wrong time.
You cannot say the same about what passes for pvp in MMOs.
When an MMO finally recognizes that a knife or sword or club is just that, a big piece of metal or wood that you stabb or beat things with, that the most fantastically equiped warrior is still just a squishy, frail meat bag dressed up in a metal can, and that nothing can save you when someone puts a sword (rusty or shiny) through your neck. Even when that someone is a simple "level 1" farm hand. Maybe then things will change.
Levels. Gear. Whatever.
"Heart grow stronger, Will becomes firm, the Mind more calm, as our Strength lessens..." Battle of Maldon 991 AD
Have you even played Crysis 2? Level and gear mean more than you think, as do hacks - yes, the game is full of them.
As for the OP, PVP isn't dying, it just takes a lot more work than PVE to get right - and today's dev's are lazy. And hell, just look at most PVE games, even where PVP is tacked on as an afterthought almost half the pop are on PVP servers (until these pvp'ers realise how broke PVP is and promptly leave).
OTHER- Battlegrounds are always full of bots.
Yeah.....just finished my second multiplay session, maybe what 5th or 6th map total. Had my first session last night with just two or so maps. And yes, the last map I got the winning kill on what was presumably a much higher ranked player (looked like 5 stars in a pentagon pattern, dunno I was too busy shooting him in the face....with the stock gunner machinegun). So as a beginning level operative I have a positive kill/death ratio and positive win/loss ratio with an award for most damage done and most objective points. On maps with players easily many times my rank and with all the unlocks they have access too.
That is kinda the point. Death comes to everyone in FPS land (hackers being an exception but using that as a rational for downplaying the stark difference between FPS combat mechanics and MMORPG combat mechanics is really reaching...)
All the gear and unlocks do is give you a bit of an edge...if used properly. Will it save you? Nope. Does it make up for poor tactical decision making or poor teamwork? Nope. Everybody dies to everyone else. That is real PvP.
But then again I've played shooters since RTCW:ET & AO:Recon so maybe that's just my bias when i think and compare those games to the PvP action that I've seen in SWG or WoW or LOTRO, or more recently RIFT. Eve I've stuck to high sec space so dunno what the action is like there but I was playing just to see what a space based MMO was like.
In MMOs player level and gear IS everything. Not neccesarily in that order.
Put it this way. Can you imagine a level one toon being able to do enough damage to seriously hurt a max level character standing naked and doing nothing in return? In most MMOs the character's in-combat health regeneration (of the max level toon) would probably out heal any possible damage the lowbie toon could do.
If level and the associated gear wasn't an issue why do MMOs (with battlegrounds) split players up into level bands? Or, in LOTRO's Monster Play, restrict PvP to high level players?
"Heart grow stronger, Will becomes firm, the Mind more calm, as our Strength lessens..." Battle of Maldon 991 AD
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with where you were coming from, I just found it funny that you used Crysis as an example of balanced PVP. IMO there are heaps of great FPS games that require skill, and don't have lame gear grinds, level discrepencies, nor stealth & other such crap, and have working anti cheat software etc thus making much better examples.
LOTRO is also the worst example of MMO PVP IMO, it was terrible.
As for gear being everything in MMO's, I'll meet you half way: gear is everything in most modern day MMO's. I remember being an undergeared low level (50) in AC1 and was able to often take on 2-3 higher level AND better geared opponents and win. That game also took a hell of a lot more strategy and teamwork than any FPS, and actually had meaningful and lasting consequences for defeat/victory. I'd also happily argue that it required more skill too, and wasn't just based on quick reflexes or insta-headshots.
Too bad MMO's have become nothing but lame gear grinds these days and where the PVP is nothing but a joke.
to the op , .....It isnt.
If PVP dies it's because only elitest douchebags PVP. It's like back in the day growing up. People if they fought it was one and one and once the fight was over things were settled. Now a days dozens of people gather around and spend more time talking shit and when they fight it's more so a slap fight just like in MMO's these days.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
I believe its because MMO's are becoming easier and easier, players are getting suckier and suckier, and theres no skill left for anyone to PvP with :x
Im affraid your second option in your poll is main reason why PvP is an after thought and for most games also a bad one.
Now adays you get some stupid battlegrounds or instance with CS gameplay get some mini pvp match conquer a flag or conquer a mount or hold a base its pathtic.
But its to please the majority who will other wise cry whole day on forums or ingame with CAPSLOCK screaming that they wanne be left alone while joining a pvp server or even a free for all pvp game they want safe gameplay SAD SAD but thats how it is these days:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Thats also totally wrong assumption.
Its becouse of players these days who wanne enter a game if its a free for all full loot game or not be uber in no time.
But when a few players constantly gank/pk them they start whine and cry how unbalance the game is. Its not fault of developers specially in the true sandbox free for all pvp games, its players base where majority that start playing are eather carebear or terible with pvp but still wanne kick ass and result scream on forums that devs should chance game so they have chance lol.
Other think that influence specially the open free for all pvp games is cheating but thats another discussion.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
There's no love in fandom....