OK what part of Arena Net uses surveys do you not understand? So how is Guru or any fansite influencing guild wars design?
Have you taken part in actual Arena Net surveys or just heard about them after the War in Kryta survey? 5, really? Where was the survey for cash shop, transmutation stones and all the other topics that came up in GW1 or after they release GW2 info? Oh right, there were none because they don't make surveys out the wazoo and wait 2 weeks for someone to sort through the feedback and to allow everyone to fill one out when they can visit forums and see the "Popular opinion" and have CM's post.
The limited survey of your personal information for the GW2 artbook does'nt count. It would be nice if it happened like you said, but really in the history of Guild Wars if they only happened 5 times as you say, then in my years of following the game I must of missed out on 3 of my golden chances to give feedback on the game, unless you count all those times I used the forums in places other than guru.
I do not know how many surveys they have done, I took part in the war in Kytra survey and then some surveys back before they even announced GW2. Where is your proof that they are changing a bunch of stuff in game based on popular opinion on the fan sites? In fact the only thing I have seen the developers doing is responding to questions and clearing up confusion after press releases.
Also as for the transmutation stones and the other things that have to deal with GW2, why do you think you should get a survey for that anyway? I want you to point me to one AAA MMO that has there beta forums open to the general public, and then I will take what you said here seriously. Because that is what you are saying here, that ANET should do a survey for a game that is not released yet!
That Guild Wars, AND Guild Wars 2, does not have official forums are a great thing.
1) On guildwars.com there is a database, with guides, where you can see help with any question you might have, or contact CC directly. It works just as good, as asking technical questions in a MMO forum.
2) How is an official MMORPG forum a representation of a community? Like that has ever mattered. If anything, in most games, it's a catalyst to whine. Why? Because it's the official place where people go to cry their lungs out, because they have horrible lives, and want to blame the developers. If you have have ever worked in a call center or customer support, you know what I am talking about. People become irrational, feeling important, wanting to talk to the manager bla bla bla.
3) To have creativity, and breath, you need to ask the players to do something. ArenaNet is asking the players to build their own communities. Not making a giant lazy beehive, for the weak minded who want to be force fed. No good community will ever come from that.
Community is when people set out to make one. Creativity and culture stems from people doing their own thing, in their own groups. An official forum is like a giant sterile international airport. It sparks no creativity, no community, no warmth or indulgences. It's just a big mish mash of information. One that is already out there, and everywhere.
4) By not offering official forums, they are throwing a bone to the community, the actual fans who put their sweat, blood and tears into making a sanctum for gamers. OPs remark about Add revenues, being the motivator for fansites is of course laughable, as anyone who has run a ad-site will know, that it's not a money grabber or worth it. Trust me, it's not a gold mine.
5) Just because you have a problem with GW Guru, does not mean that the idea about a fansite is ruined. It' just means that you don't like Guru. It doesn't make Official forums more valid, because you don't like it. Guess what, it's not a democracy. It's their site. You can build your own fansite, and run it as you please. And guess what to - Official forums are not democracy either.
Someone mentioned that fansites were a bad idea, because Guru does not advocate free speech. This is the internetz ladies and gentlemen. Welcome, and enjoy your stay.
If you have a problem with something, change it. Don't sit around and be lazy and ask other people to change it for you. Build your own site, it's easy. Anyone can set up their own thing. How would your GW community forum be? what can you offer? If you start stopping with seeing everything as problems, and start realizing that everything can be seen as potential, you will be much happier.
You don't buy a game, to use the forums, which most people use as a ground to be angry. GW2 will draw a lot of people from the woodwork who hate MMOs, some who will be bitter about the changes from GW1 and some who will be angry because it's not enough like SWTOR/TERA/WoW/whatever... It will be rama scream, and official forums will only serve as central. A central for complaining and players imagining in their own head, that the more aggressive and hostile they sound, they more they will be taken seriously.
Not having an official forum, is the same as not talking down to the players. ArenaNet are game builders. The people who build the community ARE the community. It's not held up by a string of code. It's not the developers, not the community managers, not the moderators or forum features. It's the players.
That Guild Wars, AND Guild Wars 2, does not have official forums are a great thing.
1) On guildwars.com there is a database, with guides, where you can see help with any question you might have, or contact CC directly. It works just as good, as asking technical questions in a MMO forum.
2) How is an official MMORPG forum a representation of a community? Like that has ever mattered. If anything, in most games, it's a catalyst to whine. Why? Because it's the official place where people go to cry their lungs out, because they have horrible lives, and want to blame the developers. If you have have ever worked in a call center or customer support, you know what I am talking about. People become irrational, feeling important, wanting to talk to the manager bla bla bla.
3) To have creativity, and breath, you need to ask the players to do something. ArenaNet is asking the players to build their own communities. Not making a giant lazy beehive, for the weak minded who want to be force fed. No good community will ever come from that.
Community is when people set out to make one. Creativity and culture stems from people doing their own thing, in their own groups. An official forum is like a giant sterile international airport. It sparks no creativity, no community, no warmth or indulgences. It's just a big mish mash of information. One that is already out there, and everywhere.
4) By not offering official forums, they are throwing a bone to the community, the actual fans who put their sweat, blood and tears into making a sanctum for gamers. OPs remark about Add revenues, being the motivator for fansites is of course laughable, as anyone who has run a ad-site will know, that it's not a money grabber or worth it. Trust me, it's not a gold mine.
5) Just because you have a problem with GW Guru, does not mean that the idea about a fansite is ruined. It' just means that you don't like Guru. It doesn't make Official forums more valid, because you don't like it. Guess what, it's not a democracy. It's their site. You can build your own fansite, and run it as you please. And guess what to - Official forums are not democracy either.
Someone mentioned that fansites were a bad idea, because Guru does not advocate free speech. This is the internetz ladies and gentlemen. Welcome, and enjoy your stay.
If you have a problem with something, change it. Don't sit around and be lazy and ask other people to change it for you. Build your own site, it's easy. Anyone can set up their own thing. How would your GW community forum be? what can you offer? If you start stopping with seeing everything as problems, and start realizing that everything can be seen as potential, you will be much happier.
You don't buy a game, to use the forums, which most people use as a ground to be angry. GW2 will draw a lot of people from the woodwork who hate MMOs, some who will be bitter about the changes from GW1 and some who will be angry because it's not enough like SWTOR/TERA/WoW/whatever... It will be rama scream, and official forums will only serve as central. A central for complaining and players imagining in their own head, that the more aggressive and hostile they sound, they more they will be taken seriously.
Not having an official forum, is the same as not talking down to the players. ArenaNet are game builders. The people who build the community ARE the community. It's not held up by a string of code. It's not the developers, not the community managers, not the moderators or forum features. It's the players.
Amazing post. Fifteen Charr-made Ooze cookies for you.
... Where is your proof that they are changing a bunch of stuff in game based on popular opinion on the fan sites?...
....I want you to point me to one AAA MMO that has there beta forums open to the general public, and then I will take what you said here seriously. Because that is what you are saying here, that ANET should do a survey for a game that is not released yet!
They supposedly are rethinking the transmutation stones availability based on the uproar on fansites. And I thought it was clear, but I meant the game changes due to forum feedback was in Guild Wars 1.
Also it has to be out before it's a AAA MMO, see Age of Conan and how it was supposedly one until people got past Tortage. Not that I don't like GW, but I'll withhold the AAA status until I actually play it instead of watching someone do a 30 min pve run on youtube.
And I'm noticing a little spin in your posts. I'm not the one calling for surveys. Just an official forum. Inversely, show me a "AAA MMO" that does'nt have official forums.
1. They supposedly are rethinking the transmutation stones availability based on the uproar on fansites.
2. And I thought it was clear, but I meant the game changes due to forum feedback was in Guild Wars 1.
3.Also it has to be out before it's a AAA MMO, see Age of Conan and how it was supposedly one until people got past Tortage. Not that I don't like GW, but I'll withhold the AAA status until I actually play it instead of watching someone do a 30 min pve run on youtube.
4.And I'm noticing a little spin in your posts. I'm not the one calling for surveys. Just an official forum. Inversely, show me a "AAA MMO" that does'nt have official forums.
1. Oh are you next going to point to the uproar on the possibility of dungeons in the in-game store, as a sign that fan-sites are changing the game? Even though the developers keep saying that they will add any items that the customers are willing to buy. There is a huge difference between influencing an in-game shop and changing the direct of the game. So do you have any proof that the fan-sites have changed how GW2 will be played?
Also for the in-game store, have you been around someone that owns a business or have you ever attempted to own a business. This is how businesses work, you make a product and then you put it out on the market! Then you see what the consumer demand on the said product is and if it is worth keeping around, then based on that you either scrap the product and make a new one or design another product to go along with the other successful product. This is exactly what ANet is doing with their in-game store; they keep adding fluff products to see if people will buy them. The client base has full control just like with any products, if they do not see that the fluff item is worth spending money on, they can vote with their dollars by not buying it. ANet will look at this, and then decide what they want to do with the product, just like every other business on the face of the earth. And yes ANet is a business to make money, so having an in-game shop that sales fluff items to their fans is a responsible move. It makes so they can maintain profit (and remain a legit business, this is a requirement of the IRS to able to file taxes as a business), also it makes it so they can make expansion or sequels for the game. Unless you can point to proof otherwise, this has always been the goal of ANet with their store, to sale fluff items that are not required to play the game.
2. Really can you provide proof of some game changing patches that were caused directly by one fan-site? Because the biggest changes I have seen to Guild Wars in the last year and a half, were the update for the full party of heroes and the embark beach heads. Both of those changes came from the War in Kytra Survey! I will wait to see your proof, since I have not seen that from playing Guild Wars.
3. That is your definition of AAA MMO, and believe it or not there is not a set definition for this. To me an AAA MMO or AAA game is a game with a large budget, and high production value. Your dislike for Age of Conan would not stop it from being an AAA MMO, it still had a huge budget. So unless you can point to an agreed upon definition of AAA by the MMO genre to support your views that AOC is not AAA, which I have not found! The only part I see everyone agreeing on is that AAA has a large budget. So both AoC and GW2 would be AAA because they both have a large budget! That does not guarantee that the games will be awesome, it just means to me that it is not an indy developer working on it. I am not saying you cannot keep your definition of AAA games, but just be aware not everyone shares your view.
4. As for an AAA MMO without an official forum, I would point to GW2.
... Where is your proof that they are changing a bunch of stuff in game based on popular opinion on the fan sites?...
....I want you to point me to one AAA MMO that has there beta forums open to the general public, and then I will take what you said here seriously. Because that is what you are saying here, that ANET should do a survey for a game that is not released yet!
And I'm noticing a little spin in your posts. I'm not the one calling for surveys. Just an official forum. Inversely, show me a "AAA MMO" that does'nt have official forums.
I can't think of an AAA MMO at all hehe. (Side note; I always saw AAA, as a mark of quality. I believe the definition came from the consoles as system sellers, mostly exclusive high quality titles that was single games worth buying a system for. I believe there are other terms for high production cost based games.)
But regardless how one feels, then it's more room for GW2 to break the mould:)
Also; No player can really know how much feedback the developers(of any company) take from the outcry of players. The Sylvari redesign might be internal debates, but most likely it's a combination of both. After all, ArenaNet are players themselves, and from interviews they don't seem to have their heads in the sand. The hour long GDC presentation showed that they knew and understood MMO history, and how and why we are were we are today. Rarely have I seen developers who I feel, "Get it" in the same way. Their pinpointing are spot on, of the problems.
At Pax, in several interviews, I recall Reese as well as the german community manager(forgot his name) said that it was funny how, they would debate something in the change, or talk about a new idea or a suggestion, and then go to the forums(reference to Guru and other fansites) and see the same suggestions made by players. In the end they really want the same thing as players.
The trick is also to know, when not to listen to 450 long pages of whining or "demands". I often see official forums taking a game hostage with smir talks like, "if you don't stop nerfing this" or "if you keep delaying this patch" or "you promised" or "you lied to us" or "if you dont implant this feature in game x" they will threathen to leave with 2000 of their guildies + alll their friends, and their friends, and their freinds pets too who also have accounts, and it will be the death of the game.
I remember in SWG, everyone complained about jedi. If you think Celestial horse or Forum ID whining was bad, you had no idea. No. Lucas Arts and SOE listened, to the concerns of the player and adressed them, by giving them their fanservice - the result was the beginning of the end. Nobody asked for NGE, and that's not what I am talking about. Im talking about adding jedi to the game due to popular request. It was a recepe for disaster, that the original lead designer wanted to avoid at all cost.
The morale of the story is that, many players seem to think that if they can rally up a flame storm with 500 pages in a thread it's "proof" that the community wants this. They think it's proof that if there are 20 threads on page one about a class being overpowered that it's proof and a realistic indication of the truth, about that class being powerful.
But this of course is a spin. it's not objective. forums attract a certain small specific demographic. It's not like a real old school greek diplomatic forum, like those used thousands of years ago in Greece, where the people was selected. It means that changes should be self explanatory for the developers, their internal testing teams, and what stirs in game. I personally think that there is a certain part of a MMO community, who talks more about a game than they play it. There seems to be a type of player who is never satisfied, who is always waiting for the next patch or the next game to be perfect, instead of realizing that no such thing will ever happen. Instead they spread their negativity, perhaps born out of past boredom and dissapointment to the forums, and a vicious cycle is born.
Originally posted by Master10K I don't see how people can still complain about the lack of an official forum when the devs seem to be so present in GW2guru. Just look at this page. They seem to be enjoying the atmosphere the site brings.
I don't see how people can still act like dev presence on GW2guru makes any difference. Just look at the posts in this thread. We seem to hate the atmosphere the site moderators bring.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I don't see how people can still complain about the lack of an official forum when the devs seem to be so present in GW2guru. Just look at this page. They seem to be enjoying the atmosphere the site brings.
I don't see how people can still act like dev presence on GW2guru makes any difference. Just look at the posts in this thread. We seem to hate the atmosphere the site moderators bring.
But you know what, I think these situations happen on any official forums - I've heard and seen horror stories from the Aion, SWG, WoW, LOTRO, AoC... People are upset about moderators everywhere. Some people like them, others can't stand them. I don't think official forums will help. In fact, it makes them a bigger target due to Anon. It's where people will concentrate the blame. Most people know that the people on the fansites are not those that make the game, and therefore don't feel they need to take their anger out towards them.
My census is that people will never be happy. It will never be fair. Blaming it on an official or unofficial forum is not the main focus. It's not even the right question. As mentioned before, GW2 won't have a monthly fee. It will undoubtably attract the wrong sorts. Official forums would not require a permanent subscription, since there is no subscription, which therefore would increase the trolling and hate.
If Anet drove a policy of banning peoples accounts that were tied to their forum profiles(by making it mandatory) your opening up a whole new can of worms. And I am not talking about the simple integration between forum + account servers + game and so on, but just the spew of hate you will get when a player makes a horrible thread, gets banned and has his game account banned as well. the extra staff they will need to hire to deal with people who will go "ohh my little brother was using my account. he is so stupid, please open it again" type excuses will increase the costs, and in the end reflect badly.
you see it in almost every forum, stories about how a moderator on an official forum, did something vile. Lately it's been Bioware who has been a major target.. the bigger the game, the bigger potential for problems. right now people are spewing hate towards EA, because they have corrupted Bioware or some nonsense.
It's fine to have the stand point that unofficial sites like Guru is not the community solution. I think that is an opinion we can all respect, and perhaps have an interesting discussion about, but what I can't possible comprehend is why someone would want to keep the community destroying aspects of a official forum, when thats a bigger problem than the one being complained about.
OP mentions champions online, a much smaller low profile niche game as a prove that official forums are great. Maybe he is right... in the case of champions online.
But that fate can not be maintained for GW2. If you have had extensive experience with Diablo 2, Battle.net and WoW, and such, you know what is going to happen when GW2 is released. you dont need a crystal ball to realise the backslash that will come for GW2. It has nothing to do with quality. there will be entire player segments who will hate and spew hate on the game for not being the game they or their friends play, the purists will hate it for not being like a traditional MMO, the overhyped people will hate it for their unrealistic expectations, the old schoolers will hate it from being too different, and you will have a very large base of non MMO gamers, who will be angry that it does not look and play like crysis, black ops and madden..
The lack of monthly fee comes with a cost to the players. Many people don't understand the ramifications of this. Not yet. They seem to imagine that GW2 will just magically be updated with giant free updates every month, when it will most likely be occasional features, and weeky fixing and balancing. People want the perfect package, they want it now(see SWTOR forum for ref).
What we should talk about instead is other community tools. how can guild and friend lists in the game be so diverse and cohesive, that the need for a web browser based forum would not be needed? In a perfect game utopia the game would not have the player need to leave to communicate. of course, no MMO I know off ships with a forum inside the game interface.
Speaking of feedback...the one MMO that shall not be named no longer has it's Dev's participating in the forums. Now it's blogs/twitter/facebook or whatever crap it is.
Comments
I do not know how many surveys they have done, I took part in the war in Kytra survey and then some surveys back before they even announced GW2. Where is your proof that they are changing a bunch of stuff in game based on popular opinion on the fan sites? In fact the only thing I have seen the developers doing is responding to questions and clearing up confusion after press releases.
Also as for the transmutation stones and the other things that have to deal with GW2, why do you think you should get a survey for that anyway? I want you to point me to one AAA MMO that has there beta forums open to the general public, and then I will take what you said here seriously. Because that is what you are saying here, that ANET should do a survey for a game that is not released yet!
That Guild Wars, AND Guild Wars 2, does not have official forums are a great thing.
1) On guildwars.com there is a database, with guides, where you can see help with any question you might have, or contact CC directly. It works just as good, as asking technical questions in a MMO forum.
2) How is an official MMORPG forum a representation of a community? Like that has ever mattered. If anything, in most games, it's a catalyst to whine. Why? Because it's the official place where people go to cry their lungs out, because they have horrible lives, and want to blame the developers. If you have have ever worked in a call center or customer support, you know what I am talking about. People become irrational, feeling important, wanting to talk to the manager bla bla bla.
3) To have creativity, and breath, you need to ask the players to do something. ArenaNet is asking the players to build their own communities. Not making a giant lazy beehive, for the weak minded who want to be force fed. No good community will ever come from that.
Community is when people set out to make one. Creativity and culture stems from people doing their own thing, in their own groups. An official forum is like a giant sterile international airport. It sparks no creativity, no community, no warmth or indulgences. It's just a big mish mash of information. One that is already out there, and everywhere.
4) By not offering official forums, they are throwing a bone to the community, the actual fans who put their sweat, blood and tears into making a sanctum for gamers. OPs remark about Add revenues, being the motivator for fansites is of course laughable, as anyone who has run a ad-site will know, that it's not a money grabber or worth it. Trust me, it's not a gold mine.
5) Just because you have a problem with GW Guru, does not mean that the idea about a fansite is ruined. It' just means that you don't like Guru. It doesn't make Official forums more valid, because you don't like it. Guess what, it's not a democracy. It's their site. You can build your own fansite, and run it as you please. And guess what to - Official forums are not democracy either.
Someone mentioned that fansites were a bad idea, because Guru does not advocate free speech. This is the internetz ladies and gentlemen. Welcome, and enjoy your stay.
If you have a problem with something, change it. Don't sit around and be lazy and ask other people to change it for you. Build your own site, it's easy. Anyone can set up their own thing. How would your GW community forum be? what can you offer? If you start stopping with seeing everything as problems, and start realizing that everything can be seen as potential, you will be much happier.
You don't buy a game, to use the forums, which most people use as a ground to be angry. GW2 will draw a lot of people from the woodwork who hate MMOs, some who will be bitter about the changes from GW1 and some who will be angry because it's not enough like SWTOR/TERA/WoW/whatever... It will be rama scream, and official forums will only serve as central. A central for complaining and players imagining in their own head, that the more aggressive and hostile they sound, they more they will be taken seriously.
Not having an official forum, is the same as not talking down to the players. ArenaNet are game builders. The people who build the community ARE the community. It's not held up by a string of code. It's not the developers, not the community managers, not the moderators or forum features. It's the players.
Amazing post. Fifteen Charr-made Ooze cookies for you.
They supposedly are rethinking the transmutation stones availability based on the uproar on fansites. And I thought it was clear, but I meant the game changes due to forum feedback was in Guild Wars 1.
Also it has to be out before it's a AAA MMO, see Age of Conan and how it was supposedly one until people got past Tortage. Not that I don't like GW, but I'll withhold the AAA status until I actually play it instead of watching someone do a 30 min pve run on youtube.
And I'm noticing a little spin in your posts. I'm not the one calling for surveys. Just an official forum. Inversely, show me a "AAA MMO" that does'nt have official forums.
1. Oh are you next going to point to the uproar on the possibility of dungeons in the in-game store, as a sign that fan-sites are changing the game? Even though the developers keep saying that they will add any items that the customers are willing to buy. There is a huge difference between influencing an in-game shop and changing the direct of the game. So do you have any proof that the fan-sites have changed how GW2 will be played?
Also for the in-game store, have you been around someone that owns a business or have you ever attempted to own a business. This is how businesses work, you make a product and then you put it out on the market! Then you see what the consumer demand on the said product is and if it is worth keeping around, then based on that you either scrap the product and make a new one or design another product to go along with the other successful product. This is exactly what ANet is doing with their in-game store; they keep adding fluff products to see if people will buy them. The client base has full control just like with any products, if they do not see that the fluff item is worth spending money on, they can vote with their dollars by not buying it. ANet will look at this, and then decide what they want to do with the product, just like every other business on the face of the earth. And yes ANet is a business to make money, so having an in-game shop that sales fluff items to their fans is a responsible move. It makes so they can maintain profit (and remain a legit business, this is a requirement of the IRS to able to file taxes as a business), also it makes it so they can make expansion or sequels for the game. Unless you can point to proof otherwise, this has always been the goal of ANet with their store, to sale fluff items that are not required to play the game.
2. Really can you provide proof of some game changing patches that were caused directly by one fan-site? Because the biggest changes I have seen to Guild Wars in the last year and a half, were the update for the full party of heroes and the embark beach heads. Both of those changes came from the War in Kytra Survey! I will wait to see your proof, since I have not seen that from playing Guild Wars.
3. That is your definition of AAA MMO, and believe it or not there is not a set definition for this. To me an AAA MMO or AAA game is a game with a large budget, and high production value. Your dislike for Age of Conan would not stop it from being an AAA MMO, it still had a huge budget. So unless you can point to an agreed upon definition of AAA by the MMO genre to support your views that AOC is not AAA, which I have not found! The only part I see everyone agreeing on is that AAA has a large budget. So both AoC and GW2 would be AAA because they both have a large budget! That does not guarantee that the games will be awesome, it just means to me that it is not an indy developer working on it. I am not saying you cannot keep your definition of AAA games, but just be aware not everyone shares your view.
4. As for an AAA MMO without an official forum, I would point to GW2.
I can't think of an AAA MMO at all hehe. (Side note; I always saw AAA, as a mark of quality. I believe the definition came from the consoles as system sellers, mostly exclusive high quality titles that was single games worth buying a system for. I believe there are other terms for high production cost based games.)
But regardless how one feels, then it's more room for GW2 to break the mould:)
Also; No player can really know how much feedback the developers(of any company) take from the outcry of players. The Sylvari redesign might be internal debates, but most likely it's a combination of both. After all, ArenaNet are players themselves, and from interviews they don't seem to have their heads in the sand. The hour long GDC presentation showed that they knew and understood MMO history, and how and why we are were we are today. Rarely have I seen developers who I feel, "Get it" in the same way. Their pinpointing are spot on, of the problems.
At Pax, in several interviews, I recall Reese as well as the german community manager(forgot his name) said that it was funny how, they would debate something in the change, or talk about a new idea or a suggestion, and then go to the forums(reference to Guru and other fansites) and see the same suggestions made by players. In the end they really want the same thing as players.
The trick is also to know, when not to listen to 450 long pages of whining or "demands". I often see official forums taking a game hostage with smir talks like, "if you don't stop nerfing this" or "if you keep delaying this patch" or "you promised" or "you lied to us" or "if you dont implant this feature in game x" they will threathen to leave with 2000 of their guildies + alll their friends, and their friends, and their freinds pets too who also have accounts, and it will be the death of the game.
I remember in SWG, everyone complained about jedi. If you think Celestial horse or Forum ID whining was bad, you had no idea. No. Lucas Arts and SOE listened, to the concerns of the player and adressed them, by giving them their fanservice - the result was the beginning of the end. Nobody asked for NGE, and that's not what I am talking about. Im talking about adding jedi to the game due to popular request. It was a recepe for disaster, that the original lead designer wanted to avoid at all cost.
The morale of the story is that, many players seem to think that if they can rally up a flame storm with 500 pages in a thread it's "proof" that the community wants this. They think it's proof that if there are 20 threads on page one about a class being overpowered that it's proof and a realistic indication of the truth, about that class being powerful.
But this of course is a spin. it's not objective. forums attract a certain small specific demographic. It's not like a real old school greek diplomatic forum, like those used thousands of years ago in Greece, where the people was selected. It means that changes should be self explanatory for the developers, their internal testing teams, and what stirs in game. I personally think that there is a certain part of a MMO community, who talks more about a game than they play it. There seems to be a type of player who is never satisfied, who is always waiting for the next patch or the next game to be perfect, instead of realizing that no such thing will ever happen. Instead they spread their negativity, perhaps born out of past boredom and dissapointment to the forums, and a vicious cycle is born.
I don't see how people can still act like dev presence on GW2guru makes any difference. Just look at the posts in this thread. We seem to hate the atmosphere the site moderators bring.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
But you know what, I think these situations happen on any official forums - I've heard and seen horror stories from the Aion, SWG, WoW, LOTRO, AoC... People are upset about moderators everywhere. Some people like them, others can't stand them. I don't think official forums will help. In fact, it makes them a bigger target due to Anon. It's where people will concentrate the blame. Most people know that the people on the fansites are not those that make the game, and therefore don't feel they need to take their anger out towards them.
My census is that people will never be happy. It will never be fair. Blaming it on an official or unofficial forum is not the main focus. It's not even the right question. As mentioned before, GW2 won't have a monthly fee. It will undoubtably attract the wrong sorts. Official forums would not require a permanent subscription, since there is no subscription, which therefore would increase the trolling and hate.
If Anet drove a policy of banning peoples accounts that were tied to their forum profiles(by making it mandatory) your opening up a whole new can of worms. And I am not talking about the simple integration between forum + account servers + game and so on, but just the spew of hate you will get when a player makes a horrible thread, gets banned and has his game account banned as well. the extra staff they will need to hire to deal with people who will go "ohh my little brother was using my account. he is so stupid, please open it again" type excuses will increase the costs, and in the end reflect badly.
you see it in almost every forum, stories about how a moderator on an official forum, did something vile. Lately it's been Bioware who has been a major target.. the bigger the game, the bigger potential for problems. right now people are spewing hate towards EA, because they have corrupted Bioware or some nonsense.
It's fine to have the stand point that unofficial sites like Guru is not the community solution. I think that is an opinion we can all respect, and perhaps have an interesting discussion about, but what I can't possible comprehend is why someone would want to keep the community destroying aspects of a official forum, when thats a bigger problem than the one being complained about.
OP mentions champions online, a much smaller low profile niche game as a prove that official forums are great. Maybe he is right... in the case of champions online.
But that fate can not be maintained for GW2. If you have had extensive experience with Diablo 2, Battle.net and WoW, and such, you know what is going to happen when GW2 is released. you dont need a crystal ball to realise the backslash that will come for GW2. It has nothing to do with quality. there will be entire player segments who will hate and spew hate on the game for not being the game they or their friends play, the purists will hate it for not being like a traditional MMO, the overhyped people will hate it for their unrealistic expectations, the old schoolers will hate it from being too different, and you will have a very large base of non MMO gamers, who will be angry that it does not look and play like crysis, black ops and madden..
The lack of monthly fee comes with a cost to the players. Many people don't understand the ramifications of this. Not yet. They seem to imagine that GW2 will just magically be updated with giant free updates every month, when it will most likely be occasional features, and weeky fixing and balancing. People want the perfect package, they want it now(see SWTOR forum for ref).
What we should talk about instead is other community tools. how can guild and friend lists in the game be so diverse and cohesive, that the need for a web browser based forum would not be needed? In a perfect game utopia the game would not have the player need to leave to communicate. of course, no MMO I know off ships with a forum inside the game interface.
Speaking of feedback...the one MMO that shall not be named no longer has it's Dev's participating in the forums. Now it's blogs/twitter/facebook or whatever crap it is.