Yea, and instead of everyone looking for a healer, everyone will be looking for a water elementalist or such, which will also be a rare path someone will take and will bring the same problem as having set roles. Ohhh and yes, that support class will get the "hey, you also heal, kk???" in groups. Call it a hunch and keep it in mind for when the game goes live
a) There will always be people who will demand a certain makeup before they proceed with a group due to being unable to wrap their minds around the possibility of doing things without the trinity. Even in GW1 we saw this happen in elite dungeons until skilled PvP players came up with inceasingly wacky builds and ways of beating elite dungeons that did not adhere to the conventional PvE "wisdom" that "required" certain builds to proceed. GW2 will be no different.
b) Fortunately, since there is no need to group for Dynamic Events (due to the way credit is apportioned) and no ability to prevent people from participating, this will not be enough of an issue to exclude people from a majority of game content. Dungeon-running elitists will participate in this nonsense just long enough until some high-end PvP group shows how to clear a dungeon with three Thieves, and that will be the end of that.
Why the need for a PvP group? Surely, it's just any set of skilled players who aren't closed minded about their group make-up?
And I, for one, can't wait for this game. I am truly sick of waiting around trying to get the last 1 or 2 members of a group having to pick specific class-types, not players.
Some of the best fun I've had in groups is taking "less optimal" groups (than "conventional wisdom" dictates) into instances and having to adapt. So, bring it on. I prefer to grab X interested people and get into an instance and have fun rather than waiting ages for the supposedly (near) perfect set of characters anyway.
Why the need for a PvP group? Surely, it's just any set of skilled players who aren't closed minded about their group make-up?
This is true! I have just seen more of this kind of innovation coming from the PvP players in GW1, such as Discordway and the like (and I say this as someone who does not EVER PvP). But as you said, anyone can come up with non-conventional builds that lay waste to the conventional wisdom if they're willing to be open-minded. Once those builds hit the Wiki, people who adhere to the trinity will lose their thrall over those they want to exclude from "end-game"/elite dungeons.
Well that rules GW2 out for my wife she loves to play healers.
That depends on what your wife loves about playing a healer. Does she like to play a healer because she loves supporting her team, help keeping them alive, and helping them achieve their goals? If so, there will still be a role for her in GW2 (water elementalist, guardian, heck, even necromancer).
Yea, and instead of everyone looking for a healer, everyone will be looking for a water elementalist or such, which will also be a rare path someone will take and will bring the same problem as having set roles. Ohhh and yes, that support class will get the "hey, you also heal, kk???" in groups. Call it a hunch and keep it in mind for when the game goes live
a) There will always be people who will demand a certain makeup before they proceed with a group due to being unable to wrap their minds around the possibility of doing things without the trinity. Even in GW1 we saw this happen in elite dungeons until skilled PvP players came up with inceasingly wacky builds and ways of beating elite dungeons that did not adhere to the conventional PvE "wisdom" that "required" certain builds to proceed. GW2 will be no different.
b) Fortunately, since there is no need to group for Dynamic Events (due to the way credit is apportioned) and no ability to prevent people from participating, this will not be enough of an issue to exclude people from a majority of game content. Dungeon-running elitists will participate in this nonsense just long enough until some high-end PvP group shows how to clear a dungeon with three Thieves, and that will be the end of that.
God i so much hope you are right and this will happen!! Unfortunately i am not convinced that "GW2 will be no different".
Let's not forget that WoW launched in late 2004 and GW in early 2005, people wanting a PvE game with a trinity went WoW and those aiming mostly for PvP and a skill>gear game went GW. I've had my fair share of WoW also and i've done dungeons without tanks or dedicated healers, they are sometimes "doable" but the trinity is expected. Today, that huge PvE crowd will probably own GW2 and i have strong reasons to think that things will not be the same as they were in GW. Unfortunately i foresee a Rift-like experience more than a GW-like one, but low expectations are sometimes for the best. Only time will tell.
I can understand wanting to get rid of trnity so u can group without needing a tank or healer. that said i dont think im better caue i heal or tank and ive done both.
ive dps'd also no offense man but healng and tanking is harder then dps. it just is. not only is it harder and take more attention to detail but its a thankless job where if u do your job everyone is jus tlike ok so what no biggie thats your job. if u wipe its your fault. So theres more stress on both tanks and healers then dps.
espeically when the dps stands in crap and doesnt move. Id have no issue with this thread if it didtn start with one huge rant against healers in general.
I dont belive anyone is better cause they tank or heal and i understand some people do it because guidl needs it its why i started tanking on my pally in wow. I wanted to heal but they needed me to tank more so i tanked. Turned out i enjoyed it and had a blast.
That said tanking and healing is harder then dps it just is.
I can understand wanting to get rid of trnity so u can group without needing a tank or healer. that said i dont think im better caue i heal or tank and ive done both.
ive dps'd also no offense man but healng and tanking is harder then dps. it just is. not only is it harder and take more attention to detail but its a thankless job where if u do your job everyone is jus tlike ok so what no biggie thats your job. if u wipe its your fault. So theres more stress on both tanks and healers then dps.
espeically when the dps stands in crap and doesnt move. Id have no issue with this thread if it didtn start with one huge rant against healers in general.
I dont belive anyone is better cause they tank or heal and i understand some people do it because guidl needs it its why i started tanking on my pally in wow. I wanted to heal but they needed me to tank more so i tanked. Turned out i enjoyed it and had a blast.
That said tanking and healing is harder then dps it just is.
Thats why its gone. Its about time people relied on themselves and each other rather than just a few people just because they happen to be a certain class.
I can understand wanting to get rid of trnity so u can group without needing a tank or healer. that said i dont think im better caue i heal or tank and ive done both.
ive dps'd also no offense man but healng and tanking is harder then dps. it just is. not only is it harder and take more attention to detail but its a thankless job where if u do your job everyone is jus tlike ok so what no biggie thats your job. if u wipe its your fault. So theres more stress on both tanks and healers then dps.
espeically when the dps stands in crap and doesnt move. Id have no issue with this thread if it didtn start with one huge rant against healers in general.
I dont belive anyone is better cause they tank or heal and i understand some people do it because guidl needs it its why i started tanking on my pally in wow. I wanted to heal but they needed me to tank more so i tanked. Turned out i enjoyed it and had a blast.
That said tanking and healing is harder then dps it just is.
Gotta agree with you there, healing is harder than DPS (especially ranged DPS) and being a healer is a thankless job. If a group wipes it's the healers fault and if a group success, it's the healer's job to make sure it succeed's, so why thank him/her. Which is why I only play a Support & CC debuffer character in LOTRO, because it's not completely boring and I won't get treated like crap since I'm just there to pick up the slack.
Well I make my disdain, for the holy trinity combat, no secret (just look at my sig.) so I'll all for GW2's trinity-less system. It'll make combat encounters alot less predictable, it'll make everyone in the group feel needed and not just the tank & healer and it will get rid of the f**kin' waiting around. That's the main reason why I've stopped playing LOTRO, the waiting around to have fun doing instances. Sure I could have rolled a healer but pure healing is just boring.
See, the problem with this new system is that now I have to depend on everyone in the group being as saavy as I am in order to succeed, when before all I had to worry about for the most part was having a smart healer (which was usually myself) and tank, and DPS players with at least enough brains to move out of damage and not over aggro. (no small feat apparently for some folks)
Now everyone has to be smart enough to heal themselves (and others I suppose), tank when its time to tank, cc when its time to cc etc. I'm sure I'm up to the challenge, not so sure about my fellow players.
I know what will happen, the better players will find each other and stick together, the rest will gnash their teeth about how unfair the game is.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out though, genre could use a shake up and I'm hoping GW2 is a game to do it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why the need for a PvP group? Surely, it's just any set of skilled players who aren't closed minded about their group make-up?
This is true! I have just seen more of this kind of innovation coming from the PvP players in GW1, such as Discordway and the like (and I say this as someone who does not EVER PvP). But as you said, anyone can come up with non-conventional builds that lay waste to the conventional wisdom if they're willing to be open-minded. Once those builds hit the Wiki, people who adhere to the trinity will lose their thrall over those they want to exclude from "end-game"/elite dungeons.
I'm a PvP player and I know what you mean, unconventional builds are my forte but that was true even before I started pvping in GW. It'll be fun to come up with builds alongside my sister and the rest of my guild, it IS the main reason why I love GW anyway.
See, the problem with this new system is that now I have to depend on everyone in the group being as saavy as I am in order to succeed, when before all I had to worry about for the most part was having a smart healer (which was usually myself) and tank, and DPS players with at least enough brains to move out of damage and not over aggro. (no small feat apparently for some folks)
Now everyone has to be smart enough to heal themselves (and others I suppose), tank when its time to tank, cc when its time to cc etc. I'm sure I'm up to the challenge, not so sure about my fellow players.
I know what will happen, the better players will find each other and stick together, the rest will gnash their teeth about how unfair the game is.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out though, genre could use a shake up and I'm hoping GW2 is a game to do it.
Well having come from a predominantly FPS background: be it Call of Duty, Battlefield or Borderlands; I'm used to playing games where everyone has to carry their own weight and those that don't pull their own weight must get used to being shunned. So that fact that we have people like you who fear being looked upon as a noob, because you're used to just following your DPS rotation, just shows how boringly predictable and "safe" the standard MMO combat is. If what worries you about GW2, is that you will no longer be able to blame the tank or healer, then you should just stick to playing ranged DPS in any other MMO.
It's remarkable that people fear challenge in a video game, but I guess I'll never understand those people since I've always been good in games and always had good friends to play with.
See, the problem with this new system is that now I have to depend on everyone in the group being as saavy as I am in order to succeed, when before all I had to worry about for the most part was having a smart healer (which was usually myself) and tank, and DPS players with at least enough brains to move out of damage and not over aggro. (no small feat apparently for some folks)
Now everyone has to be smart enough to heal themselves (and others I suppose), tank when its time to tank, cc when its time to cc etc. I'm sure I'm up to the challenge, not so sure about my fellow players.
I know what will happen, the better players will find each other and stick together, the rest will gnash their teeth about how unfair the game is.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out though, genre could use a shake up and I'm hoping GW2 is a game to do it.
Well having come from a predominantly FPS background: be it Call of Duty, Battlefield or Borderlands; I'm used to playing games where everyone has to carry their own weight and those that don't pull their own weight must get used to being shunned. So that fact that we have people like you who fear being looked upon as a noob, because you're used to just following your DPS rotation, just shows how boringly predictable and "safe" the standard MMO combat is. If what worries you about GW2, is that you will no longer be able to blame the tank or healer, then you should just stick to playing ranged DPS in any other MMO.
It's remarkable that people fear challenge in a video game, but I guess I'll never understand those people since I've always been good in games and always had good friends to play with.
What's remarkable is how badly you misread my post, try again. I have no fear of being looked upon as noob I assure you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
See, the problem with this new system is that now I have to depend on everyone in the group being as saavy as I am in order to succeed, when before all I had to worry about for the most part was having a smart healer (which was usually myself) and tank, and DPS players with at least enough brains to move out of damage and not over aggro. (no small feat apparently for some folks)
Now everyone has to be smart enough to heal themselves (and others I suppose), tank when its time to tank, cc when its time to cc etc. I'm sure I'm up to the challenge, not so sure about my fellow players.
I know what will happen, the better players will find each other and stick together, the rest will gnash their teeth about how unfair the game is.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out though, genre could use a shake up and I'm hoping GW2 is a game to do it.
Well having come from a predominantly FPS background: be it Call of Duty, Battlefield or Borderlands; I'm used to playing games where everyone has to carry their own weight and those that don't pull their own weight must get used to being shunned. So that fact that we have people like you who fear being looked upon as a noob, because you're used to just following your DPS rotation, just shows how boringly predictable and "safe" the standard MMO combat is. If what worries you about GW2, is that you will no longer be able to blame the tank or healer, then you should just stick to playing ranged DPS in any other MMO.
It's remarkable that people fear challenge in a video game, but I guess I'll never understand those people since I've always been good in games and always had good friends to play with.
What's remarkable is how badly you misread my post, try again. I have no fear of being looked upon as noob I assure you.
(Play DPS rotation, who plays DPS?)
OK... Gotta admit, I did misread the last line (not the 1st time I've done that) and I apologies for that, yet you still came up with the notion that people who are too rubbish to adapt to a trinity-less game will have trouble with this trinity-less game, especially when there's no healer to fall back on. And this is not the 1st time I've heard someone bring up this concern, so I stand by my point about how this is such a common thing in FPS games and I just don't understand why people fear skill-based challenge.
Also people do enjoy playing DPS rotations, since LOTRO is full of hunters and Rift is full of Rogues & Warriors.
there will still be ways to go more supportive than anyone else in the group which is good.
personally ill try to find something simillar to the 'middle ground' which we had in gw1. (elementalists and mesmers, sort of supporting without the need of heal)
the way how i see it is the group play will benefit from having different proffesions coz of different buffs etc.
i wouldnt want to see 10 thieves in a group... maybe it will work who knows, but i dont want that.
if its still not clear what i want to avoid... lets just say i want to avoid being that equivelant of warrior/monk.
thats why it was actually cool to be a monk in that game, you come in to mission hub as the only healer and get to choose from 20 warmonks to put into your group lol.
there is no way there wont be some specific proffesion or role of some proffesion that is more popular than any other.
gw1 warmonks, wow hunters, rogues, diablo 2 sorceress, dota's dps heroes, etc. happens in every single game more or less.
i hope that is... clear enough lol.
on a side note GW1 was the game where everyone had to do their best. not so much in pve, but in pvp for sure.
lack of healer will make this aspect of guild wars even more apparent.
This is why I don´t like WoW. It brought people from FPS into the RolePG realm, and they all demand balance. Then they demand independence, and after this equality would be good, too.
See, the problem with this new system is that now I have to depend on everyone in the group being as saavy as I am in order to succeed, when before all I had to worry about for the most part was having a smart healer (which was usually myself) and tank, and DPS players with at least enough brains to move out of damage and not over aggro. (no small feat apparently for some folks)
Now everyone has to be smart enough to heal themselves (and others I suppose), tank when its time to tank, cc when its time to cc etc. I'm sure I'm up to the challenge, not so sure about my fellow players.
I know what will happen, the better players will find each other and stick together, the rest will gnash their teeth about how unfair the game is.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out though, genre could use a shake up and I'm hoping GW2 is a game to do it.
To quote the first episode of Scrubs
"You ever notice how quickly some people make an impression?"
"I'm a tool. I'm a tool. I'm a tool, tool, tool; an unbelievably annoying tool."
Seriously though, I think that the holy trinity has become a sore spot more because of poor design (the over all game), rather than being a bad mechanic in and of itself. I was given plenty of thanks when I was the top of my guild's heal charts...I don't remember anyone that was number one in their trinity role ever getting thanks. Unless maybe you had to do something specific and it was a fight mechanic.
The only thing eliminating healers will do is make finding groups easier. People will still complain and blame others when the group wipes. The first group member will die and thus be called a noob for not healing themselves, when in actuality they not because of heals but because they were taking the bulk of damage for the group. I also like the idea of no healing class, however by no means do I think this will end the days of placing unfair blame.
You know, there's actually an example of a game that's, to a degree, managed to eliminate healerrs. Not completely, mind you, but it's gone a long way and probably one of the first to take steps towards this: Champions Online. In CO, if you do it right, you can build a character that does one of two, or even all three roles, and you can switch between them as is necessary, due to the power of the builds and roles systems in CO, there's a heck of a lot of things you can change on the fly, even in combat.
So I'm thinking it's going to be a bit like CO, but more focused and balanced around this idea.
i played city of heroes for years. reason i loved the game so much is that every archetype was viable in pve. you could clear instances with buffers, debuffers, healers or with pure dps. it was a lot of fun. GW2 will take it to the next level with cross-profession combos.
Originally posted by sonoggi i played city of heroes for years. reason i loved the game so much is that every archetype was viable in pve. you could clear instances with buffers, debuffers, healers or with pure dps. it was a lot of fun. GW2 will take it to the next level with cross-profession combos.
When I played CoH, there were awesome Crowd Controllers. My toon with phase spells was only level 20, but the AoE was impressive. Now this would be interesting, if there is such a thing in GW2.
Everyone pulling their own weight makes for a much better game. What it's hard for a person to heal themself? And even if they get taken down won't we be able to use a little team work to bring them back up?
Diablo isn't a totally dead on comparrison, but it is a game where people heal themselves while working with other to take down monsters in a dungeon in an action setting - and has that game been successful for online play? I'd say: YUP. I know guildwars will be more complex and challenging but you can see my point I hope.
Healers are a support that weighs the group down. They make grouping take longer. They cause wipes. They have more pressue put on them than other classes. The removal of them was the next evolution in MMOs.
Tanks too - what a tired concept. Tanking the boss aka being the real hero of the game while everyone else just pokes and prods and heals. Yawn. The thought of that gameplay makes me drousy.
We're all supposed to be heroes. We're all supposed to keep ourselves alive with evasion and tactical attacks and well timed self heals instead of relying on others. And we aren't all supposed to hide behind the mighty tank every fight either.
Everyone pulling their own weight makes for a much better game. What it's hard for a person to heal themself? And even if they get taken down won't we be able to use a little team work to bring them back up?
Diablo isn't a totally dead on comparrison, but it is a game where people heal themselves while working with other to take down monsters in a dungeon in an action setting - and has that game been successful for online play? I'd say: YUP. I know guildwars will be more complex and challenging but you can see my point I hope.
Healers are a support that weighs the group down. They make grouping take longer. They cause wipes. They have more pressue put on them than other classes. The removal of them was the next evolution in MMOs.
Tanks too - what a tired concept. Tanking the boss aka being the real hero of the game while everyone else just pokes and prods and heals. Yawn. The thought of that gameplay makes me drousy.
We're all supposed to be heroes. We're all supposed to keep ourselves alive with evasion and tactical attacks and well timed self heals instead of relying on others. And we aren't all supposed to hide behind the mighty tank every fight either.
what your describing is actually fairly boring.. i can see the PVE aspects of this game being totally forgettable.. the only reason i can see, of playing the game.. is simply because of the PVP.. though hopefully it won't be spoiled by a bunch of players who think their rambo and can't work as part of a team..
Comments
Why the need for a PvP group? Surely, it's just any set of skilled players who aren't closed minded about their group make-up?
And I, for one, can't wait for this game. I am truly sick of waiting around trying to get the last 1 or 2 members of a group having to pick specific class-types, not players.
Some of the best fun I've had in groups is taking "less optimal" groups (than "conventional wisdom" dictates) into instances and having to adapt. So, bring it on. I prefer to grab X interested people and get into an instance and have fun rather than waiting ages for the supposedly (near) perfect set of characters anyway.
This is true! I have just seen more of this kind of innovation coming from the PvP players in GW1, such as Discordway and the like (and I say this as someone who does not EVER PvP). But as you said, anyone can come up with non-conventional builds that lay waste to the conventional wisdom if they're willing to be open-minded. Once those builds hit the Wiki, people who adhere to the trinity will lose their thrall over those they want to exclude from "end-game"/elite dungeons.
God i so much hope you are right and this will happen!! Unfortunately i am not convinced that "GW2 will be no different".
Let's not forget that WoW launched in late 2004 and GW in early 2005, people wanting a PvE game with a trinity went WoW and those aiming mostly for PvP and a skill>gear game went GW. I've had my fair share of WoW also and i've done dungeons without tanks or dedicated healers, they are sometimes "doable" but the trinity is expected. Today, that huge PvE crowd will probably own GW2 and i have strong reasons to think that things will not be the same as they were in GW. Unfortunately i foresee a Rift-like experience more than a GW-like one, but low expectations are sometimes for the best. Only time will tell.
I can understand wanting to get rid of trnity so u can group without needing a tank or healer. that said i dont think im better caue i heal or tank and ive done both.
ive dps'd also no offense man but healng and tanking is harder then dps. it just is. not only is it harder and take more attention to detail but its a thankless job where if u do your job everyone is jus tlike ok so what no biggie thats your job. if u wipe its your fault. So theres more stress on both tanks and healers then dps.
espeically when the dps stands in crap and doesnt move. Id have no issue with this thread if it didtn start with one huge rant against healers in general.
I dont belive anyone is better cause they tank or heal and i understand some people do it because guidl needs it its why i started tanking on my pally in wow. I wanted to heal but they needed me to tank more so i tanked. Turned out i enjoyed it and had a blast.
That said tanking and healing is harder then dps it just is.
Thats why its gone. Its about time people relied on themselves and each other rather than just a few people just because they happen to be a certain class.
Gotta agree with you there, healing is harder than DPS (especially ranged DPS) and being a healer is a thankless job. If a group wipes it's the healers fault and if a group success, it's the healer's job to make sure it succeed's, so why thank him/her. Which is why I only play a Support & CC debuffer character in LOTRO, because it's not completely boring and I won't get treated like crap since I'm just there to pick up the slack.
Well I make my disdain, for the holy trinity combat, no secret (just look at my sig.) so I'll all for GW2's trinity-less system. It'll make combat encounters alot less predictable, it'll make everyone in the group feel needed and not just the tank & healer and it will get rid of the f**kin' waiting around. That's the main reason why I've stopped playing LOTRO, the waiting around to have fun doing instances. Sure I could have rolled a healer but pure healing is just boring.
See, the problem with this new system is that now I have to depend on everyone in the group being as saavy as I am in order to succeed, when before all I had to worry about for the most part was having a smart healer (which was usually myself) and tank, and DPS players with at least enough brains to move out of damage and not over aggro. (no small feat apparently for some folks)
Now everyone has to be smart enough to heal themselves (and others I suppose), tank when its time to tank, cc when its time to cc etc. I'm sure I'm up to the challenge, not so sure about my fellow players.
I know what will happen, the better players will find each other and stick together, the rest will gnash their teeth about how unfair the game is.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out though, genre could use a shake up and I'm hoping GW2 is a game to do it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm a PvP player and I know what you mean, unconventional builds are my forte but that was true even before I started pvping in GW. It'll be fun to come up with builds alongside my sister and the rest of my guild, it IS the main reason why I love GW anyway.
This is not a game.
Well having come from a predominantly FPS background: be it Call of Duty, Battlefield or Borderlands; I'm used to playing games where everyone has to carry their own weight and those that don't pull their own weight must get used to being shunned. So that fact that we have people like you who fear being looked upon as a noob, because you're used to just following your DPS rotation, just shows how boringly predictable and "safe" the standard MMO combat is. If what worries you about GW2, is that you will no longer be able to blame the tank or healer, then you should just stick to playing ranged DPS in any other MMO.
It's remarkable that people fear challenge in a video game, but I guess I'll never understand those people since I've always been good in games and always had good friends to play with.
What's remarkable is how badly you misread my post, try again. I have no fear of being looked upon as noob I assure you.
(Play DPS rotation, who plays DPS?)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
OK... Gotta admit, I did misread the last line (not the 1st time I've done that) and I apologies for that, yet you still came up with the notion that people who are too rubbish to adapt to a trinity-less game will have trouble with this trinity-less game, especially when there's no healer to fall back on. And this is not the 1st time I've heard someone bring up this concern, so I stand by my point about how this is such a common thing in FPS games and I just don't understand why people fear skill-based challenge.
Also people do enjoy playing DPS rotations, since LOTRO is full of hunters and Rift is full of Rogues & Warriors.
ANET has said there will be roles, it just wont the be traditional trinity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
The game also does not use the conventional "Holy Trinity" system of DPS, healer, and tank,
but instead uses a damage, control, and support system
EQ2 fan sites
there will still be ways to go more supportive than anyone else in the group which is good.
personally ill try to find something simillar to the 'middle ground' which we had in gw1. (elementalists and mesmers, sort of supporting without the need of heal)
the way how i see it is the group play will benefit from having different proffesions coz of different buffs etc.
i wouldnt want to see 10 thieves in a group... maybe it will work who knows, but i dont want that.
if its still not clear what i want to avoid... lets just say i want to avoid being that equivelant of warrior/monk.
thats why it was actually cool to be a monk in that game, you come in to mission hub as the only healer and get to choose from 20 warmonks to put into your group lol.
there is no way there wont be some specific proffesion or role of some proffesion that is more popular than any other.
gw1 warmonks, wow hunters, rogues, diablo 2 sorceress, dota's dps heroes, etc. happens in every single game more or less.
i hope that is... clear enough lol.
on a side note GW1 was the game where everyone had to do their best. not so much in pve, but in pvp for sure.
lack of healer will make this aspect of guild wars even more apparent.
hmm sounds strikingly familiar to DCUO.... oh god no...
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Nah, DCUO was tank/damage/control/healing
This is why I don´t like WoW. It brought people from FPS into the RolePG realm, and they all demand balance. Then they demand independence, and after this equality would be good, too.
To quote the first episode of Scrubs
"You ever notice how quickly some people make an impression?"
"I'm a tool. I'm a tool. I'm a tool, tool, tool; an unbelievably annoying tool."
Seriously though, I think that the holy trinity has become a sore spot more because of poor design (the over all game), rather than being a bad mechanic in and of itself. I was given plenty of thanks when I was the top of my guild's heal charts...I don't remember anyone that was number one in their trinity role ever getting thanks. Unless maybe you had to do something specific and it was a fight mechanic.
You people cannot be serious if you believe there won´t be any holy trinity.
Of course the more robust guy will be close to the mob. Or do you believe a Warrior eqipped with a shield is only useful in PvP?
The only thing eliminating healers will do is make finding groups easier. People will still complain and blame others when the group wipes. The first group member will die and thus be called a noob for not healing themselves, when in actuality they not because of heals but because they were taking the bulk of damage for the group. I also like the idea of no healing class, however by no means do I think this will end the days of placing unfair blame.
You know, there's actually an example of a game that's, to a degree, managed to eliminate healerrs. Not completely, mind you, but it's gone a long way and probably one of the first to take steps towards this: Champions Online. In CO, if you do it right, you can build a character that does one of two, or even all three roles, and you can switch between them as is necessary, due to the power of the builds and roles systems in CO, there's a heck of a lot of things you can change on the fly, even in combat.
So I'm thinking it's going to be a bit like CO, but more focused and balanced around this idea.
i played city of heroes for years. reason i loved the game so much is that every archetype was viable in pve. you could clear instances with buffers, debuffers, healers or with pure dps. it was a lot of fun. GW2 will take it to the next level with cross-profession combos.
What's better than playing a healer, for a healer? Playing a Support char in GW2. ; )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Everyone pulling their own weight makes for a much better game. What it's hard for a person to heal themself? And even if they get taken down won't we be able to use a little team work to bring them back up?
Diablo isn't a totally dead on comparrison, but it is a game where people heal themselves while working with other to take down monsters in a dungeon in an action setting - and has that game been successful for online play? I'd say: YUP. I know guildwars will be more complex and challenging but you can see my point I hope.
Healers are a support that weighs the group down. They make grouping take longer. They cause wipes. They have more pressue put on them than other classes. The removal of them was the next evolution in MMOs.
Tanks too - what a tired concept. Tanking the boss aka being the real hero of the game while everyone else just pokes and prods and heals. Yawn. The thought of that gameplay makes me drousy.
We're all supposed to be heroes. We're all supposed to keep ourselves alive with evasion and tactical attacks and well timed self heals instead of relying on others. And we aren't all supposed to hide behind the mighty tank every fight either.
what your describing is actually fairly boring.. i can see the PVE aspects of this game being totally forgettable.. the only reason i can see, of playing the game.. is simply because of the PVP.. though hopefully it won't be spoiled by a bunch of players who think their rambo and can't work as part of a team..