RockPaperShotguns John Walker was somewhat less enthousiastic on his write-up with what PvP had to offer. It also echoes the concerns of Darth Hater article. For example Walker states: "For me, with an Imperial Agent, it was a tedious, miserable experience" and "But the level’s design was such that anyone could see where I was, and so all anyone needed to do was run up the ramp to my position and hit me a few times." It seems that Bioware are really up for some balancing to do.
this was all they were willing to say during the fan summit(i know mike went to a different event so maybe different info came out of it, but this is what i have seen today):
Gabe Amatangelo: I want to touch on open world PvP. We're going to have PvP servers, and on the PvE servers there will be designated PvP areas. On a PvE server, you aren't going to flag unless you want to flag yourself, or unless you go into a designated PvP area that is going to be completely isolated from quests and story lines and that kind of stuff. Now, we're not talking about the goals inside those areas today, but we are saying that it is there. People can go and fight each other there.
Are these Open World PvP areas guild- or faction-based?
We're not talking about the goals of those areas. I know Darth Hater and all the people who follow you are really group conscience. You guys are guilds. We want to do everything we can to accommodate that type of game play.
Today we're focusing on a few systems that we haven't talked about before. The focus of them is promoting a good, healthy PvP community and allowing players to play the role they want in PvP. There are a number of systems that roll into those two points.
Great news for the inbetweens. i.e. Carebears with occasional unquenchable bloodthirst when the moon is full, after having a lousy day at the office, etc.
I'd prefer a pvp server but still: not completely banishing world pvp from pve servers is a very nice touch for many people I reckon
marauder seems overpowered. sounds like WoW's pvp in which you'd see overgeared, OP classes going 49-0, depending on which class was OP on a specific patch. pretty discouraging. no matter how good you are, you should never be able to faceroll to 21-0.
RockPaperShotguns John Walker was somewhat less enthousiastic on his write-up with what PvP had to offer. It also echoes the concerns of Darth Hater article. For example Walker states: "For me, with an Imperial Agent, it was a tedious, miserable experience" and "But the level’s design was such that anyone could see where I was, and so all anyone needed to do was run up the ramp to my position and hit me a few times." It seems that Bioware are really up for some balancing to do.
He was more of a PvE player anyways though.
I don't know though, its one of those things where I'd have to play the class to really know where it was lacking, if it was lacking at all.
On the opposite end, an article i read on the smuggler in PvP was pretty positive, so I can't see that just missing some cover points was a major detriment, but perhaps it is for the IA.
marauder seems overpowered. sounds like WoW's pvp in which you'd see overgeared, OP classes going 49-0, depending on which class was OP on a specific patch. pretty discouraging. no matter how good you are, you should never be able to faceroll to 21-0.
I think you are a little off on that bit.
Marauders might be OP'ish but it sounds like Mike and his team really did their best to cooperate and use the right group tactics. And Mike IS a self confessed, experienced pvp-gamer (as were some others on his team).
marauder seems overpowered. sounds like WoW's pvp in which you'd see overgeared, OP classes going 49-0, depending on which class was OP on a specific patch. pretty discouraging. no matter how good you are, you should never be able to faceroll to 21-0.
Mike said he basically ran with a pre-made group. The people he played with the day before. A good pre-made group should always beat a PUG.
i just wanted to add that, overall, we cant say that pvp is balanced at this point, especially going from MikeB's article. this is what happens when you try to balance too many abilities and classes. i fear another WoW basically, which is horribly imbalanced years after release, despite huge efforts to make every spec viable.
i feel other websites give a more objective impression of pvp, as opposed to "zomg, im forceleaping 100 meters pwning nubs with my marauder."
RockPaperShotguns John Walker was somewhat less enthousiastic on his write-up with what PvP had to offer. It also echoes the concerns of Darth Hater article. For example Walker states: "For me, with an Imperial Agent, it was a tedious, miserable experience" and "But the level’s design was such that anyone could see where I was, and so all anyone needed to do was run up the ramp to my position and hit me a few times." It seems that Bioware are really up for some balancing to do.
watch how quickly BW will become disillusioned when it comes to pvp. it took Blizzard 6 years to learn that each and every spec needs: CC, mitigation, evasion, burst and some sort of self heal. i only hope BW learns quickly cuz it seems they dont know much about pvp balancing.
i just wanted to add that, overall, we cant say that pvp is balanced at this point, especially going from MikeB's article. this is what happens when you try to balance too many abilities and classes. i fear another WoW basically, which is horribly imbalanced years after release, despite huge efforts to make every spec viable.
i feel other websites give a more objective impression of pvp, as opposed to "zomg, im forceleaping 100 meters pwning nubs with my marauder."
In other words, you found a more negative review and want to believe that one because it corroborates with your opinion.
i feel other websites give a more objective impression of pvp, as opposed to "zomg, im forceleaping 100 meters pwning nubs with my marauder."
Of course any too positive comment about SWTOR won't be to the liking of people who dislike SWTOR and are set in their ways
In this it seems you're wrong though so far:
Originally posted by sonoggi
TOR is primarily a PVE themepark with battlegrounds and without announced open world pvp. just sayin. we dont need to take this any further. TOR will definitely have its pluses but i dont think its pvp will blow anyone away.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
RockPaperShotguns John Walker was somewhat less enthousiastic on his write-up with what PvP had to offer. It also echoes the concerns of Darth Hater article. For example Walker states: "For me, with an Imperial Agent, it was a tedious, miserable experience" and "But the level’s design was such that anyone could see where I was, and so all anyone needed to do was run up the ramp to my position and hit me a few times." It seems that Bioware are really up for some balancing to do.
Not trying to dismiss the whole article but I think it's only natural that if you're an inexperienced PvPer playing on a class whose main mechanic isn't fully implemented yet ( the warzones are still missing a lot of cover points, these will be added. ) you're going to walk away frustrated.
Plus, seeing as he's reporting that the resolve system is about AoE, I don't think he was paying that much attention to the game. And if it is, as described, a system where you really have to use every ability to get on top then that could be fatal.
In his previous article he even reported that each class will only have 4 abilities ( it's edited now, but you can still check the edit. ).
I can see how a player like him who doesn't have PvP experience, is playing a class that's a bit less then optimal ( due to lackig cover ) and isn't paying full attention to the game will get slaughtered when confronted by players like MikeB who're playing a full-on DPS class with skilled healer support ( and even that healer was doing full-on DPS ).
Hopefully the matchmaking system that they're implementing will help with this. They're trying to split pre-mades from individual players, high valor ( PvP xp ) players from low valor players and ofcourse higher level from lower level players.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Darthater guy wasn't so terribly happy with the agent in pvp it seems.
Sniper: cover mechanic kind of awkward in pvp: you don't really want to have to stay in one position for long, but the cover mechanic forces you to do just that to use the classes' strongest abilities.
Sounds a lot like riflemen in SWG to me. They had to go prone to get their most powerful shots off.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i feel other websites give a more objective impression of pvp, as opposed to "zomg, im forceleaping 100 meters pwning nubs with my marauder."
Of course any too positive comment about SWTOR won't be to the liking of people who dislike SWTOR and are set in their ways
set in my way? what way is that? like many of you, ive been playing MMO's and pvp'ing for a long time, and i know when something smells funny. in fact, if youre impressed by the recent PVP reveal, i have to question YOUR biases.
i dont dislike SWTOR, in fact its PVE experience seems top notch. but IF BW wants their PVP to take off, they need to do a lot more research. so far, everything is supporting my hunch that pvp in TOR has been an afterthought, i.e. a feature developed after PVE and just tacked on.
Darthater guy wasn't so terribly happy with the agent in pvp it seems.
Sniper: cover mechanic kind of awkward in pvp: you don't really want to have to stay in one position for long, but the cover mechanic forces you to do just that to use the classes' strongest abilities.
Sounds a lot like riflemen in SWG to me. They had to go prone to get their most powerful shots off.
marauder seems overpowered. sounds like WoW's pvp in which you'd see overgeared, OP classes going 49-0, depending on which class was OP on a specific patch. pretty discouraging. no matter how good you are, you should never be able to faceroll to 21-0.
I think you are a little off on that bit.
Marauders might be OP'ish but it sounds like Mike and his team really did their best to cooperate and use the right group tactics. And Mike IS a self confessed, experienced pvp-gamer (as were some others on his team).
Yeah, I'm sure the Marauder was in a better position to destroy than the Agent was (the cover system is in flux and is being redesigned, there was not a lot of environmental cover available in the warzone, and you can be stunned out of cover without specing for the specific talent that prevents this), but I don't feel it was overpowered. The other MikeB is in the top end of rated BGs in WoW and is very competitive, and without tooting my own horn too much I tend to do really well in and have a knack for PvP. They were simply outplayed in the end and I had a lot of team support most of the time.
In fact, Daniel Erickson spoke to me about the balance situation afterwards and commented that the DPS Jedi Consular he was playing was actually the verified OP class during testing at that time, noting that most players in the game test would literally just tuck tail and run at the sight of one, yet he didn't have as much luck with it (he did beat me in a 1v1 at one point, though).
Also, keep in mind that Sith Sorcerer MikeB did just as well if not better than I did. Ultimately though, I don't think it really mattered. Balance is in flux, the game is in testing, so that sort of thing is to be expected. What was important is that it felt really good, and that was independent of my ability to go on a rampage, even if we lost all three rounds I'd have still had fun playing it. The tools I had available and the malleability of each and every battle made for a compelling experience. I didn't feel going into a team fight that things were decided from the outset. We worked very closely for every major victory, and that work and communication was very satisfying. I enjoyed being able to do well on my own but I really enjoy PvP that rewards teamplay. There were many skirmishes that looked all but lost until we got our shit together and turned things around and that was really what I enjoyed the most.
Darthater guy wasn't so terribly happy with the agent in pvp it seems.
Sniper: cover mechanic kind of awkward in pvp: you don't really want to have to stay in one position for long, but the cover mechanic forces you to do just that to use the classes' strongest abilities.
Sounds a lot like riflemen in SWG to me. They had to go prone to get their most powerful shots off.
I heart Sunny Day Real Estate
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i feel other websites give a more objective impression of pvp, as opposed to "zomg, im forceleaping 100 meters pwning nubs with my marauder."
Of course any too positive comment about SWTOR won't be to the liking of people who dislike SWTOR and are set in their ways
set in my way? what way is that? like many of you, ive been playing MMO's and pvp'ing for a long time, and i know when something smells funny. in fact, if youre impressed by the recent PVP reveal, i have to question YOUR biases.
i dont dislike SWTOR, in fact its PVE experience seems top notch. but IF BW wants their PVP to take off, they need to do a lot more research. so far, everything is supporting my hunch that pvp in TOR has been an afterthought, i.e. a feature developed after PVE and just tacked on.
I think you're very off base here. Balance is key, but this is TEAM balance here, not 1v1 balance. As the developers have said in these PvP interviews they are looking to encourage the right behavior in PvP with team based combat, so one IA who admittedly stealthed behind enemy lines and lone wolfed it will not be conducive to that playstyle.
BioWare is doing the right thing here. They already know what classes need balancing, and what parts of their levels need restructuring. The game is at least 3 months out but no more than 9 months away, the fact that they know these issues exist and are working on them now is nothing but a good sign.
set in my way? what way is that? like many of you, ive been playing MMO's and pvp'ing for a long time, and i know when something smells funny. in fact, if youre impressed by the recent PVP reveal, i have to question YOUR biases.
i dont dislike SWTOR, in fact its PVE experience seems top notch. but IF BW wants their PVP to take off, they need to do a lot more research. so far, everything is supporting my hunch that pvp in TOR has been an afterthought, i.e. a feature developed after PVE and just tacked on.
I think there's no need for further debating this, your arguments in blue that you yourself provided say it all actually.
Originally posted by MikeB
In fact, Daniel Erickson spoke to me about the balance situation afterwards and commented that the DPS Jedi Consular he was playing was actually the verified OP class during testing at that time, noting that most players in the game test would literally just tuck tail and run at the sight of one, yet he didn't have as much luck with it (he did beat me in a 1v1 at one point, though).
Heh. Now doesn't that make kicking Erickson's Consular ass and victory taste even sweeter
Makes me interested how open world pvp will be, when you have hordes of players fighting eachother, should lead to some epic battle sights.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think you're very off base here. Balance is key, but this is TEAM balance here, not 1v1 balance. As the developers have said in these PvP interviews they are looking to encourage the right behavior in PvP with team based combat, so one IA who admittedly stealthed behind enemy lines and lone wolfed it will not be conducive to that playstyle.
BioWare is doing the right thing here. They already know what classes need balancing, and what parts of their levels need restructuring. The game is at least 3 months out but no more than 9 months away, the fact that they know these issues exist and are working on them now is nothing but a good sign.
Actually I think Bioware said balance for all sorts of play styles, which to me includes being able to lone wolf a bit too. When you only balance for groups it doesn't seem to work so well in my opinion, at least for PVP. It needs many dimensions of balancing which is why it is so hard.
That being said, why is anybody worried about balance now? LOL. It will take at least 6 months after release before there is really any semblance of balance no matter how hard they try. It is just a fact. And it will never be perfect.
For instance back in my WoW days my rogue went from overpowered to underpowered over time, but if played right it was still powerful enough to be fun. They made stunlock much more difficult and then finally essentially nerfed it away completely, but at the same time they seemed up the crit damage if you focussed on that aspect. All the while stealth was real fun as long as you adapted and avoided those Blood Elf Paladin jerks. LOL.
I do hope there is a good stealth mechanic in SWTOR as well. Stealth can be real fun when balanced right, at least in my opinion...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Comments
RockPaperShotguns John Walker was somewhat less enthousiastic on his write-up with what PvP had to offer. It also echoes the concerns of Darth Hater article. For example Walker states: "For me, with an Imperial Agent, it was a tedious, miserable experience" and "But the level’s design was such that anyone could see where I was, and so all anyone needed to do was run up the ramp to my position and hit me a few times." It seems that Bioware are really up for some balancing to do.
Great news for the inbetweens. i.e. Carebears with occasional unquenchable bloodthirst when the moon is full, after having a lousy day at the office, etc.
I'd prefer a pvp server but still: not completely banishing world pvp from pve servers is a very nice touch for many people I reckon
My brand new bloggity blog.
marauder seems overpowered. sounds like WoW's pvp in which you'd see overgeared, OP classes going 49-0, depending on which class was OP on a specific patch. pretty discouraging. no matter how good you are, you should never be able to faceroll to 21-0.
He was more of a PvE player anyways though.
I don't know though, its one of those things where I'd have to play the class to really know where it was lacking, if it was lacking at all.
On the opposite end, an article i read on the smuggler in PvP was pretty positive, so I can't see that just missing some cover points was a major detriment, but perhaps it is for the IA.
I think you are a little off on that bit.
Marauders might be OP'ish but it sounds like Mike and his team really did their best to cooperate and use the right group tactics. And Mike IS a self confessed, experienced pvp-gamer (as were some others on his team).
My brand new bloggity blog.
Mike said he basically ran with a pre-made group. The people he played with the day before. A good pre-made group should always beat a PUG.
i just wanted to add that, overall, we cant say that pvp is balanced at this point, especially going from MikeB's article. this is what happens when you try to balance too many abilities and classes. i fear another WoW basically, which is horribly imbalanced years after release, despite huge efforts to make every spec viable.
i feel other websites give a more objective impression of pvp, as opposed to "zomg, im forceleaping 100 meters pwning nubs with my marauder."
watch how quickly BW will become disillusioned when it comes to pvp. it took Blizzard 6 years to learn that each and every spec needs: CC, mitigation, evasion, burst and some sort of self heal. i only hope BW learns quickly cuz it seems they dont know much about pvp balancing.
In other words, you found a more negative review and want to believe that one because it corroborates with your opinion.
Thats cool I guess.
Of course any too positive comment about SWTOR won't be to the liking of people who dislike SWTOR and are set in their ways
In this it seems you're wrong though so far:
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Not trying to dismiss the whole article but I think it's only natural that if you're an inexperienced PvPer playing on a class whose main mechanic isn't fully implemented yet ( the warzones are still missing a lot of cover points, these will be added. ) you're going to walk away frustrated.
Plus, seeing as he's reporting that the resolve system is about AoE, I don't think he was paying that much attention to the game. And if it is, as described, a system where you really have to use every ability to get on top then that could be fatal.
In his previous article he even reported that each class will only have 4 abilities ( it's edited now, but you can still check the edit. ).
I can see how a player like him who doesn't have PvP experience, is playing a class that's a bit less then optimal ( due to lackig cover ) and isn't paying full attention to the game will get slaughtered when confronted by players like MikeB who're playing a full-on DPS class with skilled healer support ( and even that healer was doing full-on DPS ).
Hopefully the matchmaking system that they're implementing will help with this. They're trying to split pre-mades from individual players, high valor ( PvP xp ) players from low valor players and ofcourse higher level from lower level players.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Well, at least it has Simon Templeman.
I like what I'm hearing! But I can indeed see cover being rather difficult to balance and implement successfully for PvP as well.
Happy to hear that the battles take a little bit longer and that the game really rewards tactical play though!
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
So the PvP was fun, except if you played an IA. Guess they need to look into that.
Sounds a lot like riflemen in SWG to me. They had to go prone to get their most powerful shots off.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
set in my way? what way is that? like many of you, ive been playing MMO's and pvp'ing for a long time, and i know when something smells funny. in fact, if youre impressed by the recent PVP reveal, i have to question YOUR biases.
i dont dislike SWTOR, in fact its PVE experience seems top notch. but IF BW wants their PVP to take off, they need to do a lot more research. so far, everything is supporting my hunch that pvp in TOR has been an afterthought, i.e. a feature developed after PVE and just tacked on.
I heart Sunny Day Real Estate
Yeah, I'm sure the Marauder was in a better position to destroy than the Agent was (the cover system is in flux and is being redesigned, there was not a lot of environmental cover available in the warzone, and you can be stunned out of cover without specing for the specific talent that prevents this), but I don't feel it was overpowered. The other MikeB is in the top end of rated BGs in WoW and is very competitive, and without tooting my own horn too much I tend to do really well in and have a knack for PvP. They were simply outplayed in the end and I had a lot of team support most of the time.
In fact, Daniel Erickson spoke to me about the balance situation afterwards and commented that the DPS Jedi Consular he was playing was actually the verified OP class during testing at that time, noting that most players in the game test would literally just tuck tail and run at the sight of one, yet he didn't have as much luck with it (he did beat me in a 1v1 at one point, though).
Also, keep in mind that Sith Sorcerer MikeB did just as well if not better than I did. Ultimately though, I don't think it really mattered. Balance is in flux, the game is in testing, so that sort of thing is to be expected. What was important is that it felt really good, and that was independent of my ability to go on a rampage, even if we lost all three rounds I'd have still had fun playing it. The tools I had available and the malleability of each and every battle made for a compelling experience. I didn't feel going into a team fight that things were decided from the outset. We worked very closely for every major victory, and that work and communication was very satisfying. I enjoyed being able to do well on my own but I really enjoy PvP that rewards teamplay. There were many skirmishes that looked all but lost until we got our shit together and turned things around and that was really what I enjoyed the most.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Dev 1: "So we have these guys coming over to test our game."
Dev 1: "Let them dominate us and have a blast, so they don't go home all sore and write a bad review."
Dev 2: "Okay."
-Game Starts-
Reviewer 1: "MUAHAHAHAH! PHEER ME!!"
Dev 1: "Yup, you rock man."
Dev 2: *snicker*
I think you're very off base here. Balance is key, but this is TEAM balance here, not 1v1 balance. As the developers have said in these PvP interviews they are looking to encourage the right behavior in PvP with team based combat, so one IA who admittedly stealthed behind enemy lines and lone wolfed it will not be conducive to that playstyle.
BioWare is doing the right thing here. They already know what classes need balancing, and what parts of their levels need restructuring. The game is at least 3 months out but no more than 9 months away, the fact that they know these issues exist and are working on them now is nothing but a good sign.
I think there's no need for further debating this, your arguments in blue that you yourself provided say it all actually.
Heh. Now doesn't that make kicking Erickson's Consular ass and victory taste even sweeter
Makes me interested how open world pvp will be, when you have hordes of players fighting eachother, should lead to some epic battle sights.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Let's cut it with the back-and-forth attacks please.
Actually I think Bioware said balance for all sorts of play styles, which to me includes being able to lone wolf a bit too. When you only balance for groups it doesn't seem to work so well in my opinion, at least for PVP. It needs many dimensions of balancing which is why it is so hard.
That being said, why is anybody worried about balance now? LOL. It will take at least 6 months after release before there is really any semblance of balance no matter how hard they try. It is just a fact. And it will never be perfect.
For instance back in my WoW days my rogue went from overpowered to underpowered over time, but if played right it was still powerful enough to be fun. They made stunlock much more difficult and then finally essentially nerfed it away completely, but at the same time they seemed up the crit damage if you focussed on that aspect. All the while stealth was real fun as long as you adapted and avoided those Blood Elf Paladin jerks. LOL.
I do hope there is a good stealth mechanic in SWTOR as well. Stealth can be real fun when balanced right, at least in my opinion...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
"Let’s get something out of the way real quick: PvP in Star Wars: The Old Republic is awesome."
Sounds like those Mythic staff have helped out? I liked the pvp in war back then.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem