I think I'll just wait for GW2. I just can't see this pvp being balanced. And I'm not a fan of the Warhammer tank system.
Ah, I think that is one of the best systems out there for tanks. Rather then trying to give tanks damage in addition to their ability to take very little damage, they are letting them tank. Guard a person for reduced damage (so long as they are close like in war), and "taunts" that cause the target to do less damage to anyone but the tank are AMAZING tools for PvP.
As for the PvP GW and WoW already have the same basic concept. "Builds" / "Arena team makeup" will beat other builds/makeups easily because of how they work.
The PvP in Warhammer, at least, was nothing about builds. It was about playing as a team. With certain builds or makeups, you can almost afk to a win in GW/WoW. You aren't going to win "turn in most relics" in HoH without at least two Dervs and someone to slow theirs. Don't get me wrong, the high end arena of WoW is a different story because of the skill level of players. But I expect GW2 to be very similar to GW in that regard. "Builds" will be what wins games more so then skill, except maybe at a very high skill level. Great! You can change your skills on the fly in GW2 to maybe combat their build. And they change theirs right back.
All MMOs are always trying to tweak balance. That is just how it is. Players look for the easiest way to kill/heal/protect/etc in PvP and what works the best together. Unless you think GW/WoW/War never changed anything in relation to PvP skills after release because it was perfectly balanced? :P
It sounds like Bioware put the RVR experience from Mythic to good use, from the description of the warzone and the hint at RVR lakes on PVE servers. Just hope they do a better job at balancing the classes then Mythic did with WAR so there isn’t a OP bright wizard out killing everything.
The warzone sounded fun, but I guess I am losing interest in the standard MMO PVP! Just reading your article gave me flash backs of skirmishes in WAR and WOW (and every other theme park MMO over the last 6 years) that were totally imbalanced thanks to the trinity. After all it is so much fun getting pined in your base when your side doesn’t have any healers and the other side has three. And yes I know they said they are going to be using a system to balance that, but I do not see it happening when only 20% of the people that play MMOs actually play a healer and heal.
I think I'll just wait for GW2. I just can't see this pvp being balanced. And I'm not a fan of the Warhammer tank system.
For sure, dude. I'm glad that people like you who clearly have personal experience and lots of hours testing the PvP of this game are finally coming out and telling us your expert opinions on the balance, and how impossible it's going to be to achieve. Most of us are just going off of reviews on game sites from guys with no hands on experience, and who probably have no idea what they're talking about.
I think I'll just wait for GW2. I just can't see this pvp being balanced. And I'm not a fan of the Warhammer tank system.
For sure, dude. I'm glad that people like you who clearly have personal experience and lots of hours testing the PvP of this game are finally coming out and telling us your expert opinions on the balance, and how impossible it's going to be to achieve. Most of us are just going off of reviews on game sites from guys with no hands on experience, and who probably have no idea what they're talking about.
Kudos.
Funny how my opinion lets experts like you come out of the woodwork to express your infatuation with a game that is not out. I simply stated my opinion which is just as relevant as your blind faith in this game.
The above article even mentions how sith marauders are OP. In another article the Imperial Agent is mentioned to be much less effective in PvP. By all means, point me to an article that shows me this system will be balanced around PvP, and not balanced around PvE like many MMO's are.
I really wish the game made tanks useful by having collision detection instead of by doing what they're doing. Warhammer did this really well, one of the few good aspects of the game.
I think I'll just wait for GW2. I just can't see this pvp being balanced. And I'm not a fan of the Warhammer tank system.
For sure, dude. I'm glad that people like you who clearly have personal experience and lots of hours testing the PvP of this game are finally coming out and telling us your expert opinions on the balance, and how impossible it's going to be to achieve. Most of us are just going off of reviews on game sites from guys with no hands on experience, and who probably have no idea what they're talking about.
Kudos.
Funny how my opinion lets experts like you come out of the woodwork to express your infatuation with a game that is not out. I simply stated my opinion which is just as relevant as your blind faith in this game.
The above article even mentions how sith marauders are OP. In another article the Imperial Agent is mentioned to be much less effective in PvP. By all means, point me to an article that shows me this system will be balanced around PvP, and not balanced around PvE like many MMO's are.
The truth of the matter is, everyone who has ever played PvP will tell you theres another class that is OP, and even in the off chance they are right, its never really as bad as people say.
With that being said, the IA could be underpowered, or the SM may be overpowered, but if you listen to Mos Eisley Radio they had a very good breakdown and thought that all the classes seemed pretty well balanced.
My only question is why some people think another game will be so much better balanced. No game will have perfect balance because class balance doesn't only rely on developers integrated mechanics but also the skill of the players, and you will never be able to balance that.
For a game to be fun, it has to be fair, especially a game where players have a large time investment, like an MMO. I consider balance to be a continuous, moving target. It is something that always has to be strived for...obviously player skill will always vary, and player preparation will vary...but the underlying mechanics have to be solid and "balanced" after some fashion, otherwise, you will not have a "healthy" pvp community...
If you care about PvP, pick your class accordingly. Just don't pick an ill-equiped class and then whine and cry like a little girl when you're getting your ass kicked.
I think I'll just wait for GW2. I just can't see this pvp being balanced. And I'm not a fan of the Warhammer tank system.
The above article even mentions how sith marauders are OP. In another article the Imperial Agent is mentioned to be much less effective in PvP. By all means, point me to an article that shows me this system will be balanced around PvP, and not balanced around PvE like many MMO's are.
What makes you think GW2 will be balanced? I think you haven't played GW for years.
Besides, the OP has already given an explanation to what in his eyes made the difference, namely hardcore pvp experience and a team that had been playing together for hours.
Personally, I think that balance is a neverending quest, in any MMO. You'll always have players complaining about this or that class being OP or in need for a nerf, while in a lot of cases it's the players themselves that can make the difference whether a class they play shines or sucks. Very often people don't want to acknowledge that of themselves though.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you care about PvP, pick your class accordingly. Just don't pick an ill-equiped class and then whine and cry like a little girl when you're getting your ass kicked.
Balance cannot be perfect unless each SAME class vs SAME class so it only ends up in skill.
But thats quite boring isnt it, you want diversity to make the pvp more interesting.
Balance cannot be perfect but go at least somewhere close to balance or make slight balance changes oftenyl creating fotm classes that change every patch, so every kid that has 0 skill can feel better about his sad self at least for 1 month, so its quite balanced all together lets say since every noob will have the chance to win someday xD
Diversity and balance might be opposite but it doesnt mean u should leave the game at horrible balance...
Games are made for 2 things, storytelling and competition. The "fun"(aka win, aka ego boost from EVERYTHING from pve to pvp to crafting) is just there to make a profit...
Competition obviously requires some balance to be good so you cant say balance should be ignored
And of course the balance should be based on the TOP players that know how to play their classes perfectly and use every little to their advantage and not noobs who just press 2-3 buttons and expect to win...(unless its a really bad situation where its good on top skill and some tactics are overly effective against noobs, then it depends on how important that tactic is on top level, if its a lot u probably dont want to change it
It all comes down to this
Noob1: omg this class is so op i cant win him no matter what he kills me so fast
Dev: tell me the situation
Noob1: blah blah blah
Dev: If you knew that you could use this combination of movements along with those skills, you would eb able to easily counter his combo before you actually get hit and it would just come down to speed/deception of the players
Noob1: You suck you dont know how to balance...
Gamer1: This skill is overly effective, it cannot be stopped if its used right in X order. Heres a situation where its impossible to stop or it shows its overly effective compared to other players skill
NoobDev: But you could use X skill to stop it
Gamer1: Yes an 1 hour skill with cooldown to stop a 10 sec cooldown ability, this is a little difficult dont you think? You can just say its balanced because you can use X. There are far too many variables in PvP and you have to consider each one of them before you say "just use this"
NoobDev: No you just dont know to play, its my game so its cool
Developers should have an answer for each situation which isnt as simple as just use this or that. PvP isnt something simple, there are different players, different tactics, different enviroments. There are so many variable that have to be taken in consideration before saying something...
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you care about PvP, pick your class accordingly. Just don't pick an ill-equiped class and then whine and cry like a little girl when you're getting your ass kicked.
I completely disagree. If you have a game with 30 classes...ok. But a game with 4 basic classes, then 8 advanced classes - mirrored for tow factions...providing some kind of balance across 8 adv classes IS NOT heavy lifting, design-wise. Not by a longshot. Now, each class will likely have flexibility in its build, so you could be more pve or pvp, and that is good. But having each class be pvp viable is, i would say, mandatory, with only 8 classes.
Otherwise, it is just silly. With only 8 classes, you would be happy with evem fewer "pvp" viable classes? No thanks.
If you care about PvP, pick your class accordingly. Just don't pick an ill-equiped class and then whine and cry like a little girl when you're getting your ass kicked.
I completely disagree. If you have a game with 30 classes...ok. But a game with 4 basic classes, then 8 advanced classes - mirrored for tow factions...providing some kind of balance across 8 adv classes IS NOT heavy lifting, design-wise. Not by a longshot. Now, each class will likely have flexibility in its build, so you could be more pve or pvp, and that is good. But having each class be pvp viable is, i would say, mandatory, with only 8 classes.
Otherwise, it is just silly. With only 8 classes, you would be happy with evem fewer "pvp" viable classes? No thanks.
That's 8 classes and 16 advanced classes. But who's counting anyway.
Even though they may be somewhat mirrors. They will not have the same skill sets at all.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
If you care about PvP, pick your class accordingly. Just don't pick an ill-equiped class and then whine and cry like a little girl when you're getting your ass kicked.
I completely disagree. If you have a game with 30 classes...ok. But a game with 4 basic classes, then 8 advanced classes - mirrored for tow factions...providing some kind of balance across 8 adv classes IS NOT heavy lifting, design-wise. Not by a longshot. Now, each class will likely have flexibility in its build, so you could be more pve or pvp, and that is good. But having each class be pvp viable is, i would say, mandatory, with only 8 classes.
Otherwise, it is just silly. With only 8 classes, you would be happy with evem fewer "pvp" viable classes? No thanks.
That's 8 classes and 16 advanced classes. But who's counting anyway.
Apparently you are my friend
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
First order of business, after looking at the picture where the trooper characters are firing the incredibly heavy laser weapons whilst standing in an awkward, and possibly even humerous way, I would like to put to a vote that from this day forward we refer to the incredibly heavy laser weapons as "crotch cannons".
As to the preview, it was excellent. It sounds like Bioware will avoid some of the pitfalls that have detracted from other games PVP enjoyment. Mr Bitton did an excellent job in conveying the rush imparted on him by the hands on demo. I have to say his descriptions of combat almost make me wish this game was going to actually be released.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Comments
I don't see any difference between SWTOR and GW / WoW / War.
It sounds like Bioware put the RVR experience from Mythic to good use, from the description of the warzone and the hint at RVR lakes on PVE servers. Just hope they do a better job at balancing the classes then Mythic did with WAR so there isn’t a OP bright wizard out killing everything.
The warzone sounded fun, but I guess I am losing interest in the standard MMO PVP! Just reading your article gave me flash backs of skirmishes in WAR and WOW (and every other theme park MMO over the last 6 years) that were totally imbalanced thanks to the trinity. After all it is so much fun getting pined in your base when your side doesn’t have any healers and the other side has three. And yes I know they said they are going to be using a system to balance that, but I do not see it happening when only 20% of the people that play MMOs actually play a healer and heal.
For sure, dude. I'm glad that people like you who clearly have personal experience and lots of hours testing the PvP of this game are finally coming out and telling us your expert opinions on the balance, and how impossible it's going to be to achieve. Most of us are just going off of reviews on game sites from guys with no hands on experience, and who probably have no idea what they're talking about.
Kudos.
Funny how my opinion lets experts like you come out of the woodwork to express your infatuation with a game that is not out. I simply stated my opinion which is just as relevant as your blind faith in this game.
The above article even mentions how sith marauders are OP. In another article the Imperial Agent is mentioned to be much less effective in PvP. By all means, point me to an article that shows me this system will be balanced around PvP, and not balanced around PvE like many MMO's are.
I really wish the game made tanks useful by having collision detection instead of by doing what they're doing. Warhammer did this really well, one of the few good aspects of the game.
Astute.
The truth of the matter is, everyone who has ever played PvP will tell you theres another class that is OP, and even in the off chance they are right, its never really as bad as people say.
With that being said, the IA could be underpowered, or the SM may be overpowered, but if you listen to Mos Eisley Radio they had a very good breakdown and thought that all the classes seemed pretty well balanced.
My only question is why some people think another game will be so much better balanced. No game will have perfect balance because class balance doesn't only rely on developers integrated mechanics but also the skill of the players, and you will never be able to balance that.
For a game to be fun, it has to be fair, especially a game where players have a large time investment, like an MMO. I consider balance to be a continuous, moving target. It is something that always has to be strived for...obviously player skill will always vary, and player preparation will vary...but the underlying mechanics have to be solid and "balanced" after some fashion, otherwise, you will not have a "healthy" pvp community...
Balance is a fallacy.
If you care about PvP, pick your class accordingly. Just don't pick an ill-equiped class and then whine and cry like a little girl when you're getting your ass kicked.
Hopefully they will fix the AI as that was err is my class of choice. However the pvp seems very good and well balanced at this time.
This will be my first MMo where i try out pvp. May even roll on a PvP server. Which would be my second MMO to do so (first was matrix online)
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
What makes you think GW2 will be balanced? I think you haven't played GW for years.
Besides, the OP has already given an explanation to what in his eyes made the difference, namely hardcore pvp experience and a team that had been playing together for hours.
Personally, I think that balance is a neverending quest, in any MMO. You'll always have players complaining about this or that class being OP or in need for a nerf, while in a lot of cases it's the players themselves that can make the difference whether a class they play shines or sucks. Very often people don't want to acknowledge that of themselves though.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Balance cannot be perfect unless each SAME class vs SAME class so it only ends up in skill.
But thats quite boring isnt it, you want diversity to make the pvp more interesting.
Balance cannot be perfect but go at least somewhere close to balance or make slight balance changes oftenyl creating fotm classes that change every patch, so every kid that has 0 skill can feel better about his sad self at least for 1 month, so its quite balanced all together lets say since every noob will have the chance to win someday xD
Diversity and balance might be opposite but it doesnt mean u should leave the game at horrible balance...
Games are made for 2 things, storytelling and competition. The "fun"(aka win, aka ego boost from EVERYTHING from pve to pvp to crafting) is just there to make a profit...
Competition obviously requires some balance to be good so you cant say balance should be ignored
And of course the balance should be based on the TOP players that know how to play their classes perfectly and use every little to their advantage and not noobs who just press 2-3 buttons and expect to win...(unless its a really bad situation where its good on top skill and some tactics are overly effective against noobs, then it depends on how important that tactic is on top level, if its a lot u probably dont want to change it
It all comes down to this
Noob1: omg this class is so op i cant win him no matter what he kills me so fast
Dev: tell me the situation
Noob1: blah blah blah
Dev: If you knew that you could use this combination of movements along with those skills, you would eb able to easily counter his combo before you actually get hit and it would just come down to speed/deception of the players
Noob1: You suck you dont know how to balance...
Gamer1: This skill is overly effective, it cannot be stopped if its used right in X order. Heres a situation where its impossible to stop or it shows its overly effective compared to other players skill
NoobDev: But you could use X skill to stop it
Gamer1: Yes an 1 hour skill with cooldown to stop a 10 sec cooldown ability, this is a little difficult dont you think? You can just say its balanced because you can use X. There are far too many variables in PvP and you have to consider each one of them before you say "just use this"
NoobDev: No you just dont know to play, its my game so its cool
Developers should have an answer for each situation which isnt as simple as just use this or that. PvP isnt something simple, there are different players, different tactics, different enviroments. There are so many variable that have to be taken in consideration before saying something...
MMO.Maverick wrote: The Marauders are op they need to be nerfed.
No one likes a whiner. You haven't played the game and already you're calling for a nerf?
You're talking about something you know nothing about.
Oh, brother
... lol, I hope you're not serious.
Look at the smileys, they weren't there for decoration:
It was jk
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you are your stupid, its obvious that they are immensly op. Just look at one of their screenshots... It shouts "I AM OVERPOWERED"
True... that's why a good smuggler kick in the nuts is required for them
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think the real question here is, could a high level sith mind trick a smuggler to kick himself in the nuts? Only then will they be OP.
I completely disagree. If you have a game with 30 classes...ok. But a game with 4 basic classes, then 8 advanced classes - mirrored for tow factions...providing some kind of balance across 8 adv classes IS NOT heavy lifting, design-wise. Not by a longshot. Now, each class will likely have flexibility in its build, so you could be more pve or pvp, and that is good. But having each class be pvp viable is, i would say, mandatory, with only 8 classes.
Otherwise, it is just silly. With only 8 classes, you would be happy with evem fewer "pvp" viable classes? No thanks.
That's 8 classes and 16 advanced classes. But who's counting anyway.
Even though they may be somewhat mirrors. They will not have the same skill sets at all.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Apparently you are my friend
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Oh man... that'd be devious! I vote for shooting sith on sight
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This is an EPIC idea. I want!
First order of business, after looking at the picture where the trooper characters are firing the incredibly heavy laser weapons whilst standing in an awkward, and possibly even humerous way, I would like to put to a vote that from this day forward we refer to the incredibly heavy laser weapons as "crotch cannons".
As to the preview, it was excellent. It sounds like Bioware will avoid some of the pitfalls that have detracted from other games PVP enjoyment. Mr Bitton did an excellent job in conveying the rush imparted on him by the hands on demo. I have to say his descriptions of combat almost make me wish this game was going to actually be released.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I know i have no paint skills but was bored XD
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/lemric1/smuggle.jpg
edit: unfortunately no clean video with dirty kick(that i know of)