How did the xp balance out? I mean are the big hitters (dps'ers) going to get the majority of the xp, and what not, becouse of doing major portion of dammage per kill. Highest kill count, most xp, most rewards?
First order of business, after looking at the picture where the trooper characters are firing the incredibly heavy laser weapons whilst standing in an awkward, and possibly even humerous way, I would like to put to a vote that from this day forward we refer to the incredibly heavy laser weapons as "crotch cannons".
As to the preview, it was excellent. It sounds like Bioware will avoid some of the pitfalls that have detracted from other games PVP enjoyment. Mr Bitton did an excellent job in conveying the rush imparted on him by the hands on demo. I have to say his descriptions of combat almost make me wish this game was going to actually be released.
Motion accepted. "Crotch Cannons" they will be. On a side note: destroying someone with your crotch cannon must be a subconscious ego-boosting trip for the male psyche, whether its by firing it or slapping someone with the stock. I think Freud would have agreed on this.
If Mike had played Jedi Knight instead the Marauder, now the Sith cry-nerf division would be sobbing nerfs for the Knight class, and not the otherway around
Only thing I'm worried about is if tanks can effectively protect the healers (50% damage sharing, X% off attacker damage (taunt)), all the PvP will be around one thing only and that is who has the best healers protected by tank(s).
While I find healing to be a nice role in any game it should never be a "spammable main role", it makes PvP fights often too long and sometimes neverending when the healers get too powerful. Tactical healing with somekind of long CDs would be so much better where the decision of when to use the heals matters and not so much of your ability to make someone invulnerable unless you are taken down (and that's where the tank comes in making you impossible to be taken down if properly played). I knew this game was getting healers but I never thought it would be the spam-heal model that is nightmare to balance for PvP.
I will admit im so happy there is no stealth in this game, or is there, well from what ive read theres cover but not invisibility....good read, still on the fence with this game, but this is a positive article
I will admit im so happy there is no stealth in this game, or is there, well from what ive read theres cover but not invisibility....good read, still on the fence with this game, but this is a positive article
How did the xp balance out? I mean are the big hitters (dps'ers) going to get the majority of the xp, and what not, becouse of doing major portion of dammage per kill. Highest kill count, most xp, most rewards?
No. You are rewarded for doing your role well whether that be healing, tanking, etc.
Just wanted to say thanks for the write up. Sounded like you had a blast . As you can tell, I'm new to MMORPG.com but look forward to joining this community .
I do have a few questions regarding the Guard ability:
1) Did you notice if it was on a GCD? For example, lets say you are guarding your guildmate and he dies almost immediately. Do you have to wait a few seconds/minutes etc before placing it on another ally?
2) Did you notice if you can stack the Guard Ability? For example, 2 Juggernauts place a Guard Ability on the same healer, would that person take no damage?
Mike, great article and this is overall my favorite in terms if detailed information about the experience. I only wish you had a chance at playing the Jedi Sentinel to compare the two classes as the article from gamespot.com clearly is from the perspective of someone who is not skilled in player verses player.
Though I will say that reading TOROCast's closing comments actually made my day: "PvP is much more akin to WAR (if it was done correctly) which should greatly appeal to many of you whom I know are huge DAoC fans like I am."
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
Yeah it all sounds very dandy.. But it doesnt change that it is STATIC combat, you Tab trough your enemies.. And there is little to No reason to actually move while fighting.. You just stand in place and spam your skills..
Meeehhh.. Moving on.. So no worth anyones time, that enjoys Decent PvP elements..
Yet another 2-sided faction based PvP game. What is going to happen when one side starts losing and stops logging in, making it even harder for that faction to win? Merge the servers repeatedly? This is such a flawed mechanic in so many PvP games that I'm interested to know what is the plan. Mythic said that they had a plan for that when Warhammer released, and quickly learned that they actually didn't have a plan.
Guildwars 2, on the other hand, will have open world PvP with 1 server against 2 other servers. Classes are identical and you have a 3-sided PvP war, thus ensuring no one faction/server dominates in PvP. Since it is really impossible to have 3-sided faction war in Star Wars, if they don't have a plan to address this issue then I don't see the long-term health of PvP in this game.
Yet another 2-sided faction based PvP game. What is going to happen when one side starts losing and stops logging in, making it even harder for that faction to win? Merge the servers repeatedly? This is such a flawed mechanic in so many PvP games that I'm interested to know what is the plan. Mythic said that they had a plan for that when Warhammer released, and quickly learned that they actually didn't have a plan.
Guildwars 2, on the other hand, will have open world PvP with 1 server against 2 other servers. Classes are identical and you have a 3-sided PvP war, thus ensuring no one faction/server dominates in PvP. Since it is really impossible to have 3-sided faction war in Star Wars, if they don't have a plan to address this issue then I don't see the long-term health of PvP in this game.
GW2 does not have open world pvp, it's like an open zone with different maps that rotate week to week.
Yet another 2-sided faction based PvP game. What is going to happen when one side starts losing and stops logging in, making it even harder for that faction to win? Merge the servers repeatedly? This is such a flawed mechanic in so many PvP games that I'm interested to know what is the plan. Mythic said that they had a plan for that when Warhammer released, and quickly learned that they actually didn't have a plan.
Guildwars 2, on the other hand, will have open world PvP with 1 server against 2 other servers. Classes are identical and you have a 3-sided PvP war, thus ensuring no one faction/server dominates in PvP. Since it is really impossible to have 3-sided faction war in Star Wars, if they don't have a plan to address this issue then I don't see the long-term health of PvP in this game.
GW2 does not have open world pvp, it's like an open zone with different maps that rotate week to week.
Aye. No open world pvp in GW2; a very large cross server battleground but no pvp in the open world whatsoever.
Also it remains to be seen how this server balancing act Anet will use in GW2 pans out. I can imagine servers that win a lot in WvWvW becoming much more popular to play on than those who perform badly. Huge, pvp minded guilds could have a big impact on that.
They do have a mechanic to pitch servers of equal strength against eachother though, but that doesn't mean there won't be obvious strong and weak servers (unless they want to rotate the best few against eachother repeatedly). A lot of people are prone to wanting to fight on the 'cool' / 'strong' side and they said there won't be a player cap on WvWvW so potentially that will only increase the numeric strength of the 'cool', powerful servers.
Anyway, it all comes down on incentives: if it will be much quicker to gain pvp rewards through normal battlegrounds or GvG there might not be such a huge interest in WvWvW and servers could end up being pretty equal but I wonder whether that is what people really want out of it.
i.e.I think every game has its own balancing act to make. GW2 might not have a 'class balance between factions' problem but they have some server versus server balance aspects to consider.
But regarding Swtor, I think what we will see is what you see with most two faction games: some servers where side A. will be dominant and some servers where side B. will be the top dog (at least in open world pvp). Classes are more or less mirrored in base roles and functionalities so balancing those two sides isn't impossible at all.
In warzones you might see one side being more interested in pvp in general and when they also happen to be the more popular side in general, they might have longer queue's than the other side. We shall see. Waiting on a queue now and then hasn't stopped me from enjoying mmorpgs personally.
u guys can keep fantasizing about open world pvp all you want. you cant have balance with zergs. and nobody likes being ganked. open world =/= good pvp. GW2's WvWvW is the closest it gets to balanced open world pvp, and is resemblant of DAOC's system, hands down the only successful PVP in an MMO. 2-faction systems alway fail.
u guys can keep fantasizing about open world pvp all you want. you cant have balance with zergs. and nobody likes being ganked. open world =/= good pvp. GW2's WvWvW is the closest it gets to balanced open world pvp, and is resemblant of DAOC's system, hands down the only successful PVP in an MMO. 2-faction systems alway fail.
Uhm, no it isn't. They don't balance anything in GW2, and only 1 world can be the winner in their little tournament, so 2 worlds can't team up to take on a 3rd and them both be number one. This isn't like a 3 FACTION system where 3 factions fight for resources and land on one server with lasting alliances and repercussions. At the end of the week there will only be one winner in GW2 which means it will be the one with the most players and supported constantly PvPing and taking the most points.
The only way to truly balance PvP is to first start with balancing populations. This could be done by a server queue list, where you create your character first, then depending on the faction, you are placed on a server where that population is fewer, while capping the other factions population until the player cap is reached. Even then it won't work out well seeing as how it all comes down to how many people are wanting to PvP in what areas, so if you want to BALANCE open world PvP you'd have to force a queue system like in a Warzone. Also, if you want to BALANCE open world PvP, then you're missing the point of Open World PvP.
you CANT balance open world pvp. thats supposed to be its appeal. ever try playing EVE? the ultimate open world pvp game? it's a joke.
Nah I don't like EvE, but I've played plenty of games with Open World PvP, and plenty with FFA PvP. These types of systems aren't meant to be fair, but they are meant to be fun.
you CANT balance open world pvp. thats supposed to be its appeal. ever try playing EVE? the ultimate open world pvp game? it's a joke.
True u cant but there are also some very beautiful situations
1)you found a person you really dont like xping in your area his alone and you are alone. Its going to be fun unless he has like 50% hp left from mob...
2)same just in a group vs group
3)going to xp spot
OMG HE KILLED ME, TELL CLAN
clan comes adn kills him
He tells his clan and his clans comes
now we have a HUGE clan vs clan war! xD epic win
Kids who usually go there just for pointless kills usually suck at pvp and a real pvper can kill them, i cant say anything about pve guys who cant win anythign besides a monster autohititng them
Duuuuuuude that was the most awesome article ever. Bonus points for tone I felt like I was actually playing it! But yeah, I never thought I could possibly get more psyched for this game until I read this! I swear, we better hear some sort of release date by E3 or Im gonna burst!!!
Im amazed people have slated a game for a year old video that last about 1 minute 30 seconds. This game uses the same platform as WoW they said they would be stupid not to use the base WoW has. But it adds so much more into it. If you watch any new videos or Instances from PaX u will realise your all complete idiots who are just looking to Rage in posts. The combat is the most fluid and fast paced in ANY mmo ive played or seen, period.
Comments
How did the xp balance out? I mean are the big hitters (dps'ers) going to get the majority of the xp, and what not, becouse of doing major portion of dammage per kill. Highest kill count, most xp, most rewards?
Motion accepted. "Crotch Cannons" they will be. On a side note: destroying someone with your crotch cannon must be a subconscious ego-boosting trip for the male psyche, whether its by firing it or slapping someone with the stock. I think Freud would have agreed on this.
My brand new bloggity blog.
If Mike had played Jedi Knight instead the Marauder, now the Sith cry-nerf division would be sobbing nerfs for the Knight class, and not the otherway around
Only thing I'm worried about is if tanks can effectively protect the healers (50% damage sharing, X% off attacker damage (taunt)), all the PvP will be around one thing only and that is who has the best healers protected by tank(s).
While I find healing to be a nice role in any game it should never be a "spammable main role", it makes PvP fights often too long and sometimes neverending when the healers get too powerful. Tactical healing with somekind of long CDs would be so much better where the decision of when to use the heals matters and not so much of your ability to make someone invulnerable unless you are taken down (and that's where the tank comes in making you impossible to be taken down if properly played). I knew this game was getting healers but I never thought it would be the spam-heal model that is nightmare to balance for PvP.
I will admit im so happy there is no stealth in this game, or is there, well from what ive read theres cover but not invisibility....good read, still on the fence with this game, but this is a positive article
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbhrfVb3ESE
Theres stealth.
If thats a feature I'm preordering 5 copies now so I can multibox repeated self-testicular abuse in PVP situations
No. You are rewarded for doing your role well whether that be healing, tanking, etc.
Sounds good, but I am waiting to after the review (not previews or first view etc) to buy my copy as always.
Hey Mike,
Just wanted to say thanks for the write up. Sounded like you had a blast
. As you can tell, I'm new to MMORPG.com but look forward to joining this community 
.
I do have a few questions regarding the Guard ability:
1) Did you notice if it was on a GCD? For example, lets say you are guarding your guildmate and he dies almost immediately. Do you have to wait a few seconds/minutes etc before placing it on another ally?
2) Did you notice if you can stack the Guard Ability? For example, 2 Juggernauts place a Guard Ability on the same healer, would that person take no damage?
Again thanks for the write up
Celwinn
[quote] Both the aforementioned approach to taunting and the Guard feature worked excellently in Mythic’s Warhammer Online,[/quote]
Heh.... not quite. Primary targets were still the weak and frailer DPS - DOT classes and they died normally to focus fire in group fights.
Mike, great article and this is overall my favorite in terms if detailed information about the experience. I only wish you had a chance at playing the Jedi Sentinel to compare the two classes as the article from gamespot.com clearly is from the perspective of someone who is not skilled in player verses player.
Though I will say that reading TOROCast's closing comments actually made my day: "PvP is much more akin to WAR (if it was done correctly) which should greatly appeal to many of you whom I know are huge DAoC fans like I am."
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
Yeah it all sounds very dandy.. But it doesnt change that it is STATIC combat, you Tab trough your enemies.. And there is little to No reason to actually move while fighting.. You just stand in place and spam your skills..
Meeehhh.. Moving on.. So no worth anyones time, that enjoys Decent PvP elements..
Yet another 2-sided faction based PvP game. What is going to happen when one side starts losing and stops logging in, making it even harder for that faction to win? Merge the servers repeatedly? This is such a flawed mechanic in so many PvP games that I'm interested to know what is the plan. Mythic said that they had a plan for that when Warhammer released, and quickly learned that they actually didn't have a plan.
Guildwars 2, on the other hand, will have open world PvP with 1 server against 2 other servers. Classes are identical and you have a 3-sided PvP war, thus ensuring no one faction/server dominates in PvP. Since it is really impossible to have 3-sided faction war in Star Wars, if they don't have a plan to address this issue then I don't see the long-term health of PvP in this game.
GW2 does not have open world pvp, it's like an open zone with different maps that rotate week to week.
In Bioware we trust!
Aye. No open world pvp in GW2; a very large cross server battleground but no pvp in the open world whatsoever.
Also it remains to be seen how this server balancing act Anet will use in GW2 pans out. I can imagine servers that win a lot in WvWvW becoming much more popular to play on than those who perform badly. Huge, pvp minded guilds could have a big impact on that.
They do have a mechanic to pitch servers of equal strength against eachother though, but that doesn't mean there won't be obvious strong and weak servers (unless they want to rotate the best few against eachother repeatedly). A lot of people are prone to wanting to fight on the 'cool' / 'strong' side and they said there won't be a player cap on WvWvW so potentially that will only increase the numeric strength of the 'cool', powerful servers.
Anyway, it all comes down on incentives: if it will be much quicker to gain pvp rewards through normal battlegrounds or GvG there might not be such a huge interest in WvWvW and servers could end up being pretty equal but I wonder whether that is what people really want out of it.
i.e.I think every game has its own balancing act to make. GW2 might not have a 'class balance between factions' problem but they have some server versus server balance aspects to consider.
But regarding Swtor, I think what we will see is what you see with most two faction games: some servers where side A. will be dominant and some servers where side B. will be the top dog (at least in open world pvp). Classes are more or less mirrored in base roles and functionalities so balancing those two sides isn't impossible at all.
In warzones you might see one side being more interested in pvp in general and when they also happen to be the more popular side in general, they might have longer queue's than the other side. We shall see. Waiting on a queue now and then hasn't stopped me from enjoying mmorpgs personally.
My brand new bloggity blog.
u guys can keep fantasizing about open world pvp all you want. you cant have balance with zergs. and nobody likes being ganked. open world =/= good pvp. GW2's WvWvW is the closest it gets to balanced open world pvp, and is resemblant of DAOC's system, hands down the only successful PVP in an MMO. 2-faction systems alway fail.
Uhm, no it isn't. They don't balance anything in GW2, and only 1 world can be the winner in their little tournament, so 2 worlds can't team up to take on a 3rd and them both be number one. This isn't like a 3 FACTION system where 3 factions fight for resources and land on one server with lasting alliances and repercussions. At the end of the week there will only be one winner in GW2 which means it will be the one with the most players and supported constantly PvPing and taking the most points.
The only way to truly balance PvP is to first start with balancing populations. This could be done by a server queue list, where you create your character first, then depending on the faction, you are placed on a server where that population is fewer, while capping the other factions population until the player cap is reached. Even then it won't work out well seeing as how it all comes down to how many people are wanting to PvP in what areas, so if you want to BALANCE open world PvP you'd have to force a queue system like in a Warzone. Also, if you want to BALANCE open world PvP, then you're missing the point of Open World PvP.
you CANT balance open world pvp. thats supposed to be its appeal. ever try playing EVE? the ultimate open world pvp game? it's a joke.
Nah I don't like EvE, but I've played plenty of games with Open World PvP, and plenty with FFA PvP. These types of systems aren't meant to be fair, but they are meant to be fun.
True u cant but there are also some very beautiful situations
1)you found a person you really dont like xping in your area his alone and you are alone. Its going to be fun unless he has like 50% hp left from mob...
2)same just in a group vs group
3)going to xp spot
OMG HE KILLED ME, TELL CLAN
clan comes adn kills him
He tells his clan and his clans comes
now we have a HUGE clan vs clan war! xD epic win
Kids who usually go there just for pointless kills usually suck at pvp and a real pvper can kill them, i cant say anything about pve guys who cant win anythign besides a monster autohititng them
Awesome innit?
My brand new bloggity blog.
Sith Warrior so gonna get nerfed it sounds like.
I've never liked PvP very much, but this sounds interesting... Maybe i'll give it a go.
Im amazed people have slated a game for a year old video that last about 1 minute 30 seconds. This game uses the same platform as WoW they said they would be stupid not to use the base WoW has. But it adds so much more into it. If you watch any new videos or Instances from PaX u will realise your all complete idiots who are just looking to Rage in posts. The combat is the most fluid and fast paced in ANY mmo ive played or seen, period.