Nothing for me, the whole backpack and turret system seems to belong to "Team fotress", not a GW game.
Some steampunk technology is cool but they went too far for my taste.
On the other hand if other people like it go ahead and play it. My personal play style differs probably from yours anyways.
My main worry about engineer is that a bunch of them will camp the mists with loads of traps and that it will make the PvP less fun because of it. Hopefully have ANET thought about this.
Love it, was waiting for a class like it, will roll one as my main.
I can appreciate the concerns of people who like their fantasy to be confined to a particular era (and/or culture). For such folks it doesn't really matter what the explanation is for gunpowder and grenades, they just don't like it (and the Charr background that led to these technological advances have indeed been covered in interviews). It's unfortunate for them that GW2 is set 250 years in the future, and not 25, nor is it a retelling of GW with GW2 mechanics on top. It doesn't bother me, personally, but I understand the sentiment completely.
Yeah, that's how I feel. I've been with fantasy for a long time, I've probably been reading fantasy for longer than some of the people here have been alive, and I've seen a lot of different genres and approaches to fantasy and science-fantasy. It is hypocritical to single out Engineers, but... it's hard to get people to realise that.
That's a shame, because fantasy becomes all the more richer the more fantastic it is, and having mixes of technology, magic, and all sorts of other weirdness increase the fantastic factor. Neil Gaiman is a great writer in regards to this, and as I recall the man likes his clockpunk and clockwork people, too.
I'm glad they are putting in a technological facet in a fantasy MMO (so kind of a gaslight/clockwork fantasy, I suppose). I'm not too interested in the class right now (though an insane Asura mad-bomber would be fun to RP), but I'm glad it's in there to increase the breadth and definition of what fantasy, as a genre, implies.
I was very happy when I heard they were adding a class with a bit of sci-fi flavor to it. High "pure" fantasy has more than played itself out IMO.
How is flintlock pistols, clockwork gears, elixirs and mines sci-fi....?
At first was very underwhelmed about the class but after some time am starting to really like it. It is reminding me of Arcanum, a game of magic and technology co-existing and truely loved that game. I think the Engineer will be one of my first toons. Necro, Ranger, Engineer are prolly gonna be my first toons.
One thing I really don't like is that random elite skill. I don't like randomness and think it's a lousy concept as depending on the situation it can be absolute total crap, mild bbenefit, or total benefit with beniefits being very slim from past experience with random abilities.
I'm glad they are putting in a technological facet in a fantasy MMO (so kind of a gaslight/clockwork fantasy, I suppose). I'm not too interested in the class right now (though an insane Asura mad-bomber would be fun to RP), but I'm glad it's in there to increase the breadth and definition of what fantasy, as a genre, implies.
Indeed, think it's bout time they start throwing in some gadget working into a game.
Noone complains about airships, bombs, deflecter belts, submarines, cannons, teleporting devices in WoW of how it doesn't meshes with the fantasy setting. Course that is a bad example considering all the pop-culture trash that is in it now.
Engineer fit perfect to the charr and to the new age that has come to GW2 universe. Game with only sword and magic is not fun, the Engineer adds more flavor to the game.
Some people like to smash skulls with a hammer or slice up foes with their swords. Other like to burn their enemies or call the frost and lightning. Other like to have an army by their side. Other like to shoot people to death.
ArenaNet is trying to give all the people what they want. Now they have it, if someone won't play GW2 because of the Engineer but they like everything else...that's to sad i don't even care. Tho it makes me very frustrated how someone could not play GW2 because of that one little thing.
Someone mentioned Warhammer's Technology. While a certian amount of it is random (skaven warmachines do tend to misfire and destory your own army), there's other armies that aren't really that random. It's really hard to make a Dwarf warmachine misfire. Plus characters with handguns don't ever misfire, and can do a lot of damage. Gunpowder might not be trustworthy, but a dwarf or empire human with a handgun doesn't misfire.
Yeah, that's how I feel. I've been with fantasy for a long time, I've probably been reading fantasy for longer than some of the people here have been alive, and I've seen a lot of different genres and approaches to fantasy and science-fantasy. It is hypocritical to single out Engineers, but... it's hard to get people to realise that.
That's a shame, because fantasy becomes all the more richer the more fantastic it is, and having mixes of technology, magic, and all sorts of other weirdness increase the fantastic factor. Neil Gaiman is a great writer in regards to this, and as I recall the man likes his clockpunk and clockwork people, too.
For me it's not so much engineers. It's more the apperant inconsistency of the world.
I completely agree that adding more elements to a fantasy world can enrich it but it should be done consistently.
Mixing clockpunk into things is fine, but it should be mixed into everything. This feels a lot like they mixed steam punk into engineers and the Charr but left it completely out of everything else. The entire problem is that it's possible to single out engineers, to me they don't feel in line with the rest of the world.
Even if for whatever reason other races and professions don't use engineering a lot then there should still be influences from that whole clockpunk thing. Give the other classes some minor gadgets as well. I mean the Engineer has Dwayna's symbol on his healing backpack, that's consistency. Why not give every class some clockpunk gadgets so the whole clockpunk thing feels like a real part of the world instead of just randomly ducktaped on.
In my perception it's one step short of just giving a lightsabre to the warrior class without any further explanation at all.
Ps. If anyone thinks I'm bashing this thing too much then just ignore me. I enjoy diving into things like this and hearing everyone's arguments about it. It's unlikely I'll radically change my point of view but it'll still enrich my perceptions on these things which is why I go into discussions like these in the first place.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Someone mentioned Warhammer's Technology. While a certian amount of it is random (skaven warmachines do tend to misfire and destory your own army), there's other armies that aren't really that random. It's really hard to make a Dwarf warmachine misfire. Plus characters with handguns don't ever misfire, and can do a lot of damage. Gunpowder might not be trustworthy, but a dwarf or empire human with a handgun doesn't misfire.
It's not just the gameplay mechanics ( even though dwarven artillery can have some spectacular misfires and handguns cost more points then bows ) but it's more the thing that they clearly thought about why a world that has access to blackpowder people are still using swords. It shows they take their created world seriously and it enriches that world.
Tolkien wrote entire languages for Middle Earth. The actual LotR story would have been mostly the same without those, but it still greatly enriches the world he created.
Blackpowder in Warhammer feels a genuine part of that world, not just randomly thrown in. The Engineer, to me, does feel randomly thrown in. If they have any lore about it that they haven't revealed then they should have revealed that beforehand, show us how exactly they came to the Engineer and why the rest of the world isn't using that technology everywhere.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Love the look of them. Will probably be hugely fun in PVE. Not so convinced of their pvp viability yet though. Some of their skills seem to require AI level herpderpness from opponents to be effective on a consistent level. Mines and all. Wonder what mechanics they'll use to alleviate that.
On the other hand they might end up like a hugely annoying but effective kiting class similar to wow huntards, snares and all ...
to all those who think that steampunk isnt a part of fantasy, it is. and has been for a long time. if you dont like the class, thats fine. but dont go around saying it doesnt belong in the GW2 world and that it breaks immersion.
who do you think built those tanks? fortresses? artillery? Mesmers didnt do it.
To my knowledge, actually... I can state factually, Gunpowder/Blackpowder (referring to generally as Gunpowder from here on) IS in GW1, you use it in prophecies to blow up walls - and I believe Centaur catapults launch it.
Engineers are implied as inventors. They use Gunpowder.
People use Pistols and Rifles because it is a rapid firing ranged attack device that requires little skill to use, I can not fathom the disconnect here. There is every lore reason present for why Gunpowder is here, and why people use it in the manner they do. Other weapons are perfectly viable alternatives on the same battlefield.
What am I missing?
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
I think the class is great. It seems like a versatile class with a new element to bring to the GW world. It reminds me of Final Fantasy's airship techs from the older games. Also, at 250 years into the future, I would hope that someone would have developed a weapon other than a sword.
I just started reading Ghosts of Ascalon, and it mentioned that some of the soldiers were carrying muskets. It also mentioned that some of the humans are weirded out by asuran magi-tech. I guess some of the posters here are also weirded out by the tech.
It makes sense why only one land may have a higher tech and others don't. I've read quite a few novels that had the same thing happening where one land was using rifles and others were still swords, bows, and magic. Modesitt did this in his Recluce series. Hamor had a lot more advancements with weapons, but the other lands had limited if any of it because of a few reasons.
One was their political system, idealogy. They were more magic based.
Another was resources. It was just harder to get them to make the tech.
Also often the knowledge was kept secret, so few of the tech was available to others at a very high price.
Another was funds by lands to even bring in the such weaponry. It was cheaper to hire a mediocre wizard that could do more damage than supply and train a bunch of troubles.
With magic present in the GW world, it is obvious why people would stick with what works and not try to develop something they may find inferior or more costly. I'm sure anet will release the lore about how engineers and their tech advanced to how it is now. Perhaps it is a mixture of magic and tech. If it is only, I'm interested to learn why they went that route and abandoned magic.
Even in our own world, people were still using melee and archers while others had guns. There was a transitional period until everyone started using, and often others were farther behind because of some of the reasons I mentioned such as resources, money, capability to develop themselves. it is like asking, how come not everyone has nuclear power. Some people just don't have the knowledge or funds to develop it, and others we don't allow.
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
There isn't much time for the humans to take this technology back home, peace with the char is very recent in terms of this games setting.
Not to mention although it is called engineer it uses a lot of ALCHEMY which is everywhere in the game.
Every race has a reason why they can use this tech also, humans just made peace and their alchemists adopted this tech
Norn have been friendly with the charr for most of their time due to similar cultures and locations
asura are crazy alchemist and they connect every civilization in the game with their tech
sylvari are 20 years old and have every other profession I think they can pickup this one just as quick.
This is not a stretch at all. In fact it is a reflection of the natural evolving and changing world
And what is with this there is no guardian that uses engineering, where is my elementalist with armor? where is my warriors casting fireballs wth are you trying to say every class should have every tech?
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Comments
Nothing for me, the whole backpack and turret system seems to belong to "Team fotress", not a GW game.
Some steampunk technology is cool but they went too far for my taste.
On the other hand if other people like it go ahead and play it. My personal play style differs probably from yours anyways.
My main worry about engineer is that a bunch of them will camp the mists with loads of traps and that it will make the PvP less fun because of it. Hopefully have ANET thought about this.
Not my cup of tea, also don't think its suited for GW2. Have fun, everyone who will play this class.
Played: SWG-FFXI-EQ2-Aion
Anticipated in order of Hype:
ArcheAge
GW2
TERA
SWTOR
Not enough info, but looks promising:
Blade & Soul
Love it, was waiting for a class like it, will roll one as my main.
I can appreciate the concerns of people who like their fantasy to be confined to a particular era (and/or culture). For such folks it doesn't really matter what the explanation is for gunpowder and grenades, they just don't like it (and the Charr background that led to these technological advances have indeed been covered in interviews). It's unfortunate for them that GW2 is set 250 years in the future, and not 25, nor is it a retelling of GW with GW2 mechanics on top. It doesn't bother me, personally, but I understand the sentiment completely.
@rudbar
I don't understand how it couldn't be suited for Guild Wars 2 though. I mean, consider what you'd be saying with that...
Makes Sense: Cars and Tanks.
Makes Sense: Magicks.
Makes Sense: Giant floating cube.
Makes Sense: Hivemind pod people.
Makes Sense: Shapeshifters.
Makes Sense: Dimensional Tomfoolery.
Makes Sense: Magic Robots.
Makes Sense: Gods.
Makes Sense: Dragons.
Makes Sense: Reality Warping Dragons.
Doesn't Make Sense: Engineers.
The primary rule of fanasy? Anything goes providing it fits the context of the world, which engineers do. Engineers make sense.
It's a rule that Engineers may not be present in a fantasy game. Or so it was written by Hypocriticus.
I was very happy when I heard they were adding a class with a bit of sci-fi flavor to it. High "pure" fantasy has more than played itself out IMO.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
@Alot
Yeah, that's how I feel. I've been with fantasy for a long time, I've probably been reading fantasy for longer than some of the people here have been alive, and I've seen a lot of different genres and approaches to fantasy and science-fantasy. It is hypocritical to single out Engineers, but... it's hard to get people to realise that.
That's a shame, because fantasy becomes all the more richer the more fantastic it is, and having mixes of technology, magic, and all sorts of other weirdness increase the fantastic factor. Neil Gaiman is a great writer in regards to this, and as I recall the man likes his clockpunk and clockwork people, too.
I'm glad they are putting in a technological facet in a fantasy MMO (so kind of a gaslight/clockwork fantasy, I suppose). I'm not too interested in the class right now (though an insane Asura mad-bomber would be fun to RP), but I'm glad it's in there to increase the breadth and definition of what fantasy, as a genre, implies.
How is flintlock pistols, clockwork gears, elixirs and mines sci-fi....?
At first was very underwhelmed about the class but after some time am starting to really like it. It is reminding me of Arcanum, a game of magic and technology co-existing and truely loved that game. I think the Engineer will be one of my first toons. Necro, Ranger, Engineer are prolly gonna be my first toons.
One thing I really don't like is that random elite skill. I don't like randomness and think it's a lousy concept as depending on the situation it can be absolute total crap, mild bbenefit, or total benefit with beniefits being very slim from past experience with random abilities.
I like it, I like it alot. It gives the game sort of a steampunk look to it.
Indeed, think it's bout time they start throwing in some gadget working into a game.
Noone complains about airships, bombs, deflecter belts, submarines, cannons, teleporting devices in WoW of how it doesn't meshes with the fantasy setting. Course that is a bad example considering all the pop-culture trash that is in it now.
Engineer fit perfect to the charr and to the new age that has come to GW2 universe. Game with only sword and magic is not fun, the Engineer adds more flavor to the game.
Some people like to smash skulls with a hammer or slice up foes with their swords. Other like to burn their enemies or call the frost and lightning. Other like to have an army by their side. Other like to shoot people to death.
ArenaNet is trying to give all the people what they want. Now they have it, if someone won't play GW2 because of the Engineer but they like everything else...that's to sad i don't even care. Tho it makes me very frustrated how someone could not play GW2 because of that one little thing.
Interesting read if you haven't seen it
http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562
Someone mentioned Warhammer's Technology. While a certian amount of it is random (skaven warmachines do tend to misfire and destory your own army), there's other armies that aren't really that random. It's really hard to make a Dwarf warmachine misfire. Plus characters with handguns don't ever misfire, and can do a lot of damage. Gunpowder might not be trustworthy, but a dwarf or empire human with a handgun doesn't misfire.
I like it. I don't like everything about it, but I'm definately satisfied with the class.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
For me it's not so much engineers. It's more the apperant inconsistency of the world.
I completely agree that adding more elements to a fantasy world can enrich it but it should be done consistently.
Mixing clockpunk into things is fine, but it should be mixed into everything. This feels a lot like they mixed steam punk into engineers and the Charr but left it completely out of everything else. The entire problem is that it's possible to single out engineers, to me they don't feel in line with the rest of the world.
Even if for whatever reason other races and professions don't use engineering a lot then there should still be influences from that whole clockpunk thing. Give the other classes some minor gadgets as well. I mean the Engineer has Dwayna's symbol on his healing backpack, that's consistency. Why not give every class some clockpunk gadgets so the whole clockpunk thing feels like a real part of the world instead of just randomly ducktaped on.
In my perception it's one step short of just giving a lightsabre to the warrior class without any further explanation at all.
Ps. If anyone thinks I'm bashing this thing too much then just ignore me. I enjoy diving into things like this and hearing everyone's arguments about it. It's unlikely I'll radically change my point of view but it'll still enrich my perceptions on these things which is why I go into discussions like these in the first place.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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It's not just the gameplay mechanics ( even though dwarven artillery can have some spectacular misfires and handguns cost more points then bows ) but it's more the thing that they clearly thought about why a world that has access to blackpowder people are still using swords. It shows they take their created world seriously and it enriches that world.
Tolkien wrote entire languages for Middle Earth. The actual LotR story would have been mostly the same without those, but it still greatly enriches the world he created.
Blackpowder in Warhammer feels a genuine part of that world, not just randomly thrown in. The Engineer, to me, does feel randomly thrown in. If they have any lore about it that they haven't revealed then they should have revealed that beforehand, show us how exactly they came to the Engineer and why the rest of the world isn't using that technology everywhere.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Love the look of them. Will probably be hugely fun in PVE. Not so convinced of their pvp viability yet though. Some of their skills seem to require AI level herpderpness from opponents to be effective on a consistent level. Mines and all. Wonder what mechanics they'll use to alleviate that.
On the other hand they might end up like a hugely annoying but effective kiting class similar to wow huntards, snares and all ...
*engi-curious is*
My brand new bloggity blog.
to all those who think that steampunk isnt a part of fantasy, it is. and has been for a long time. if you dont like the class, thats fine. but dont go around saying it doesnt belong in the GW2 world and that it breaks immersion.
who do you think built those tanks? fortresses? artillery? Mesmers didnt do it.
To my knowledge, actually... I can state factually, Gunpowder/Blackpowder (referring to generally as Gunpowder from here on) IS in GW1, you use it in prophecies to blow up walls - and I believe Centaur catapults launch it.
Engineers are implied as inventors. They use Gunpowder.
People use Pistols and Rifles because it is a rapid firing ranged attack device that requires little skill to use, I can not fathom the disconnect here. There is every lore reason present for why Gunpowder is here, and why people use it in the manner they do. Other weapons are perfectly viable alternatives on the same battlefield.
What am I missing?
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
I think the class is great. It seems like a versatile class with a new element to bring to the GW world. It reminds me of Final Fantasy's airship techs from the older games. Also, at 250 years into the future, I would hope that someone would have developed a weapon other than a sword.
I just started reading Ghosts of Ascalon, and it mentioned that some of the soldiers were carrying muskets. It also mentioned that some of the humans are weirded out by asuran magi-tech. I guess some of the posters here are also weirded out by the tech.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
It makes sense why only one land may have a higher tech and others don't. I've read quite a few novels that had the same thing happening where one land was using rifles and others were still swords, bows, and magic. Modesitt did this in his Recluce series. Hamor had a lot more advancements with weapons, but the other lands had limited if any of it because of a few reasons.
One was their political system, idealogy. They were more magic based.
Another was resources. It was just harder to get them to make the tech.
Also often the knowledge was kept secret, so few of the tech was available to others at a very high price.
Another was funds by lands to even bring in the such weaponry. It was cheaper to hire a mediocre wizard that could do more damage than supply and train a bunch of troubles.
With magic present in the GW world, it is obvious why people would stick with what works and not try to develop something they may find inferior or more costly. I'm sure anet will release the lore about how engineers and their tech advanced to how it is now. Perhaps it is a mixture of magic and tech. If it is only, I'm interested to learn why they went that route and abandoned magic.
Even in our own world, people were still using melee and archers while others had guns. There was a transitional period until everyone started using, and often others were farther behind because of some of the reasons I mentioned such as resources, money, capability to develop themselves. it is like asking, how come not everyone has nuclear power. Some people just don't have the knowledge or funds to develop it, and others we don't allow.
@Vynt
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain.
What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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I simply love it, favorite profession alongside necromancer right now. The uniqueness is just awesome.
hehehe,hahahahaHAHAHAHA
laughing Hyena, get used to it -_-
There isn't much time for the humans to take this technology back home, peace with the char is very recent in terms of this games setting.
Not to mention although it is called engineer it uses a lot of ALCHEMY which is everywhere in the game.
Every race has a reason why they can use this tech also, humans just made peace and their alchemists adopted this tech
Norn have been friendly with the charr for most of their time due to similar cultures and locations
asura are crazy alchemist and they connect every civilization in the game with their tech
sylvari are 20 years old and have every other profession I think they can pickup this one just as quick.
This is not a stretch at all. In fact it is a reflection of the natural evolving and changing world
And what is with this there is no guardian that uses engineering, where is my elementalist with armor? where is my warriors casting fireballs wth are you trying to say every class should have every tech?
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EKSA
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