DeBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
New is cool. By why aren't the other Charr professions integrating their magic and martial abilities with the all prevelent engineering?
Engineering has obviously been around for some time in the Charr culture as they're building tanks and such already. Yet only the warrior and thief have started using blackpowder weapons. The rest of the classes don't have anything related to engineering at all.
A Charr elementalist who's been surrounded by Engineering his entire life and was raised among a race in the midst of an extreme technological revolution doesn't have any form of engineering gadgets whatsoever? Wouldn't it be logical for him to carry some gadgets for when he's silenced? Maybe use a pistol since that's the weapon he was raised around and use his elementalist spells in special combinations with that?
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Yeah, that's how I feel. I've been with fantasy for a long time, I've probably been reading fantasy for longer than some of the people here have been alive, and I've seen a lot of different genres and approaches to fantasy and science-fantasy. It is hypocritical to single out Engineers, but... it's hard to get people to realise that.
That's a shame, because fantasy becomes all the more richer the more fantastic it is, and having mixes of technology, magic, and all sorts of other weirdness increase the fantastic factor. Neil Gaiman is a great writer in regards to this, and as I recall the man likes his clockpunk and clockwork people, too.
For me it's not so much engineers. It's more the apperant inconsistency of the world.
I completely agree that adding more elements to a fantasy world can enrich it but it should be done consistently.
Mixing clockpunk into things is fine, but it should be mixed into everything. This feels a lot like they mixed steam punk into engineers and the Charr but left it completely out of everything else. The entire problem is that it's possible to single out engineers, to me they don't feel in line with the rest of the world.
Even if for whatever reason other races and professions don't use engineering a lot then there should still be influences from that whole clockpunk thing. Give the other classes some minor gadgets as well. I mean the Engineer has Dwayna's symbol on his healing backpack, that's consistency. Why not give every class some clockpunk gadgets so the whole clockpunk thing feels like a real part of the world instead of just randomly ducktaped on.
In my perception it's one step short of just giving a lightsabre to the warrior class without any further explanation at all.
Ps. If anyone thinks I'm bashing this thing too much then just ignore me. I enjoy diving into things like this and hearing everyone's arguments about it. It's unlikely I'll radically change my point of view but it'll still enrich my perceptions on these things which is why I go into discussions like these in the first place.
Actually, Gobla, you make a really interesting point. Maybe someone else has already addressed this (I haven't read through the entire dialogue), but on further reflection it does seem like the Engineer may be a little out of place in the GW lore....so far. I hope Anet has a solution to this by release, but it would make sense to have every profession and every racial area to have some level of this type of steampunk tech. Otherwise, how would other races besides the Charr ever become Engineers? Would they go study with the Charr? According to the lore, Humans and Charr tolerate each other barely enough to fight alongside each other. With that line of thought, would many humans be willing to study under the Charr to learn Engineering? Probably not. In that case, there would have to be some overlap of technologies among the different races.
Lorewise, I don't see this as much of a problem. It would make sense that the different races would influence one another and adopt certain ideas and technologies from each other. That's how it works in the real world so it would stand to reason that it would work in GW as well. Hopefully the devs address this issue before release. I see it as just a hole in the lore, but a kind of big one.
Either way, the Engineer looks like it might be pretty fun to play, especially in a damage support role. How much more fun can you get than blowing stuff up???
P.S. @Alot - I very much agree that Neil Gaiman is a fantastic writer with very interesting mixtures of fantasy and modernism.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
A Charr using magic is a minority. A human being a combat engineer is a minority. Humans have been using magic since the first game, or have you decided to suddenly forget about that?
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Yeah, that's how I feel. I've been with fantasy for a long time, I've probably been reading fantasy for longer than some of the people here have been alive, and I've seen a lot of different genres and approaches to fantasy and science-fantasy. It is hypocritical to single out Engineers, but... it's hard to get people to realise that.
That's a shame, because fantasy becomes all the more richer the more fantastic it is, and having mixes of technology, magic, and all sorts of other weirdness increase the fantastic factor. Neil Gaiman is a great writer in regards to this, and as I recall the man likes his clockpunk and clockwork people, too.
For me it's not so much engineers. It's more the apperant inconsistency of the world.
I completely agree that adding more elements to a fantasy world can enrich it but it should be done consistently.
Mixing clockpunk into things is fine, but it should be mixed into everything. This feels a lot like they mixed steam punk into engineers and the Charr but left it completely out of everything else. The entire problem is that it's possible to single out engineers, to me they don't feel in line with the rest of the world.
Even if for whatever reason other races and professions don't use engineering a lot then there should still be influences from that whole clockpunk thing. Give the other classes some minor gadgets as well. I mean the Engineer has Dwayna's symbol on his healing backpack, that's consistency. Why not give every class some clockpunk gadgets so the whole clockpunk thing feels like a real part of the world instead of just randomly ducktaped on.
In my perception it's one step short of just giving a lightsabre to the warrior class without any further explanation at all.
Ps. If anyone thinks I'm bashing this thing too much then just ignore me. I enjoy diving into things like this and hearing everyone's arguments about it. It's unlikely I'll radically change my point of view but it'll still enrich my perceptions on these things which is why I go into discussions like these in the first place.
Actually, Gobla, you make a really interesting point. Maybe someone else has already addressed this (I haven't read through the entire dialogue), but on further reflection it does seem like the Engineer may be a little out of place in the GW lore....so far. I hope Anet has a solution to this by release, but it would make sense to have every profession and every racial area to have some level of this type of steampunk tech. Otherwise, how would other races besides the Charr ever become Engineers? Would they go study with the Charr? According to the lore, Humans and Charr tolerate each other barely enough to fight alongside each other. With that line of thought, would many humans be willing to study under the Charr to learn Engineering? Probably not. In that case, there would have to be some overlap of technologies among the different races.
Lorewise, I don't see this as much of a problem. It would make sense that the different races would influence one another and adopt certain ideas and technologies from each other. That's how it works in the real world so it would stand to reason that it would work in GW as well. Hopefully the devs address this issue before release. I see it as just a hole in the lore, but a kind of big one.
Different races have influenced each other. Lorewise the Guardian originates from the Paragon and the protection Monk. Charr are able to be Guardians despite it being developed by a race they used to be at war with. I don't see why its such a stretch for the other races to be able to use a profession that originated with the Charr.
DeBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
Either way, the Engineer looks like it might be pretty fun to play, especially in a damage support role. How much more fun can you get than blowing stuff up???
P.S. @Alot - I very much agree that Neil Gaiman is a fantastic writer with very interesting mixtures of fantasy and modernism.
Why are warriors not using meteor storms instead of chasing others with a blade? Gobla only directs this logic at the use of engineering devices, but not at all weapons. If you actually apply it at all used weapons, then there wouldnt be any need for professions. Let anyone use anything. But as it is, with profession means you are specialised in something. Conveniently forgetting that when new weapons are introduced is just stupid.
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
The only proffesions so far that don't have a gun are magic users.
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
eBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so they are already using technology.
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
A Charr using magic is a minority. A human being a combat engineer is a minority. Humans have been using magic since the first game, or have you decided to suddenly forget about that?
Charr have also been using magic since the first game. Why haven't they integrated their magic and engineering?
Even if they became mistrustful there must still have been a minority ( like there is at the GW2 time ) that kept on using magic. Why haven't they combined their engineering and magic in any way at all?
From all the humans that went to study engineering with the Charr why weren't there any of them with even the slightest magical knowledge they could use to create some combinations of magic and engineering?
In a world that has both engineering and magic spread over all the races, even if recently, why is absolutely nobody combining the two? Why are half the GW2 classes not using any engineering abilities at all?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
A Charr using magic is a minority. A human being a combat engineer is a minority. Humans have been using magic since the first game, or have you decided to suddenly forget about that?
Charr have also been using magic since the first game. Why haven't they integrated their magic and engineering?
Even if they became mistrustful there must still have been a minority ( like there is at the GW2 time ) that kept on using magic. Why haven't they combined their engineering and magic in any way at all?
From all the humans that went to study engineering with the Charr why weren't there any of them with even the slightest magical knowledge they could use to create some combinations of magic and engineering?
In a world that has both engineering and magic spread over all the races, even if recently, why is absolutely nobody combining the two? Why are half the GW2 classes not using any engineering abilities at all?
Apparently they have. Either you are trying to reveal flaws in GW2's lore or you forgot what you said earlier. There is no point in debating this with you anymore. You ran out of arguments and now are completely contradicting yourself just to keep this going.
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
Oh come on. It is obvious but you are now just argueing for the sake of argueing. You are stating my point. 'Warriors who train in a bit of magic' . I guess they have limited time just like everyone else and need to specialise in something. Otherwise there would be no professions. Its the whole idea of professions/classes. Geez.
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
A Charr using magic is a minority. A human being a combat engineer is a minority. Humans have been using magic since the first game, or have you decided to suddenly forget about that?
Charr have also been using magic since the first game. Why haven't they integrated their magic and engineering?
Even if they became mistrustful there must still have been a minority ( like there is at the GW2 time ) that kept on using magic. Why haven't they combined their engineering and magic in any way at all?
From all the humans that went to study engineering with the Charr why weren't there any of them with even the slightest magical knowledge they could use to create some combinations of magic and engineering?
In a world that has both engineering and magic spread over all the races, even if recently, why is absolutely nobody combining the two? Why are half the GW2 classes not using any engineering abilities at all?
Read up about the Flaming Legion and why they turned away from gods and magic for the most part. And stop trolling.
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
I don't know if I'd say that every profession should use some form of engineering, but I do think that there has to be some level of technology among all the races that would allow for all races to train in that profession. Since you pick your profession before you get beyond your starting area, your starting area needs to have access to the tech.
Something I just thought of....I guess the devs could get around all that by just putting a Charr Engineer Trainer in every starting area. That way, the different races wouldn't actually need the technology pervading their respective cultures nor would the other professions need to use the bits of engineering. Just a thought.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
A Charr using magic is a minority. A human being a combat engineer is a minority. Humans have been using magic since the first game, or have you decided to suddenly forget about that?
Charr have also been using magic since the first game. Why haven't they integrated their magic and engineering?
Even if they became mistrustful there must still have been a minority ( like there is at the GW2 time ) that kept on using magic. Why haven't they combined their engineering and magic in any way at all?
From all the humans that went to study engineering with the Charr why weren't there any of them with even the slightest magical knowledge they could use to create some combinations of magic and engineering?
In a world that has both engineering and magic spread over all the races, even if recently, why is absolutely nobody combining the two? Why are half the GW2 classes not using any engineering abilities at all?
Maybe 300 years after GW2 in the world of GW3 we will see more mixing of engineering and magic. I mean we are talking about a world where people never figured out they could ride animals. Cut them some slack.
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
I don't know if I'd say that every profession should use some form of engineering, but I do think that there has to be some level of technology among all the races that would allow for all races to train in that profession. Since you pick your profession before you get beyond your starting area, your starting area needs to have access to the tech.
It is entirely possible that some technology will be available in the form of consumables. Think along the lines of summoning stones from GW1. But then a temporarily turrent or golem.
But professions are professions and are specialised in certain weapons/magic/technology.
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
A world that has so much technology as GW2 needs to give the option to use that technology to all.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
There will be Charr Rangers living in cities of metal. GW1 had Charr rangers living in lands where nothing green was present in fifty miles. GW1 rangers had explosive arrows, why aren't GW2 rangers using explosions?
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Wouldn't there be a single guardian able to think of some interesting ways to combine his guardian abilities with blackpowder weapons? Silver bullets anyone?
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Why not pack a simple gadget for when you're silenced? Maybe combine some engineering oil gadget with your fireball for extra effect.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Why don't they combine their minions with any form of technology at all?
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so they are already using technology.
It's just weird that every class has some form of magic. Every class has some form of martial abilities. Yet only 3 classes have engineering related things.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Ps. If anyone thinks I'm bashing this thing too much then just ignore me. I enjoy diving into things like this and hearing everyone's arguments about it. It's unlikely I'll radically change my point of view but it'll still enrich my perceptions on these things which is why I go into discussions like these in the first place.
For all those claiming I'm trolling I posted this earlier. You don't have to reply to me. Ignore me if you want. But if you do reply I will reply back.
Just stop replying and skip my posts if you're not interested. Nobody is forcing you to read them.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
A world that has so much technology as GW2 needs to give the option to use that technology to all.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
There will be Charr Rangers living in cities of metal. GW1 had Charr rangers living in lands where nothing green was present in fifty miles. GW1 rangers had explosive arrows, why aren't GW2 rangers using explosions?
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Wouldn't there be a single guardian able to think of some interesting ways to combine his guardian abilities with blackpowder weapons? Silver bullets anyone?
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Why not pack a simple gadget for when you're silenced? Maybe combine some engineering oil gadget with your fireball for extra effect.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Why don't they combine their minions with any form of technology at all?
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so they are already using technology.
It's just weird that every class has some form of magic. Every class has some form of martial abilities. Yet only 3 classes have engineering related things.
eBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
I can quote this all day long. Combat engineers are still new. I don't see a reason why any other professions need technology when they have their own equally powerful ways to cause destruction. Especially when the technology is still new to them. And your arguments for the Ranger and the Guardian are completely stupid. Silver bullets is the best you can come up with?
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
A world that has so much technology as GW2 needs to give the option to use that technology to all.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
There will be Charr Rangers living in cities of metal. GW1 had Charr rangers living in lands where nothing green was present in fifty miles. GW1 rangers had explosive arrows, why aren't GW2 rangers using explosions?
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Wouldn't there be a single guardian able to think of some interesting ways to combine his guardian abilities with blackpowder weapons? Silver bullets anyone?
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Why not pack a simple gadget for when you're silenced? Maybe combine some engineering oil gadget with your fireball for extra effect.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Why don't they combine their minions with any form of technology at all?
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so they are already using technology.
It's just weird that every class has some form of magic. Every class has some form of martial abilities. Yet only 3 classes have engineering related things.
I guess from immersion perspective, that depends on the usage of said technology/magic and how much training you need to be able to use it. Why use it if it isnt better then what you replace it with? You keep ignoring that obvious reason. One can assume that engineering isnt more powerfull then magic in GW1 or 2.
A mine doesnt have to be more powerfull then a ranger trap. A rifle not more then a sword. So whats your point? Its not real life otherwise guns would be instant kill if aimed well and meteor showers would instantly kill a whole group.
I can quote this all day long. Combat engineers are still new. I don't see a reason why any other professions need technology when they have their own equally powerful ways to cause destruction. Especially when the technology is still new to them. And your arguments for the Ranger and the Guardian are completely stupid. Silver bullets is the best you can come up with?
You can continue quoting it all day long.
Silver bullets where the first thing that popped into my mind. I'm sure you can think of some better way of combining guardian abilities and blackpowder, shouldn't be hard.
Engineering has been along long enough for tanks, cars, turrets, mines etc. The concept of blackpowder has, as many stated, been around since GW1. If the world is evolving in such a technological direction for those past 300 years why haven't the other professions evolved with it?
You've basically got the Engineer which has evolved for 300 years. The warrior and thief that changed a little bit. And the elementalist, necromancer, ranger and guardian which haven't changed in any way whatsoever regardless of the changes in the world around them with no explanation given.
Apparently they have. Either you are trying to reveal flaws in GW2's lore or you forgot what you said earlier. There is no point in debating this with you anymore. You ran out of arguments and now are completely contradicting yourself just to keep this going.
Engineers using magic does not equal other professions using engineering.....
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I can quote this all day long. Combat engineers are still new. I don't see a reason why any other professions need technology when they have their own equally powerful ways to cause destruction. Especially when the technology is still new to them. And your arguments for the Ranger and the Guardian are completely stupid. Silver bullets is the best you can come up with?
You can continue quoting it all day long.
Silver bullets where the first thing that popped into my mind. I'm sure you can think of some better way of combining guardian abilities and blackpowder, shouldn't be hard.
Engineering has been along long enough for tanks, cars, turrets, mines etc. The concept of blackpowder has, as many stated, been around since GW1. If the world is evolving in such a technological direction for those past 300 years why haven't the other professions evolved with it?
You've basically got the Engineer which has evolved for 300 years. The warrior and thief that changed a little bit. And the elementalist, necromancer, ranger and guardian which haven't changed in any way whatsoever regardless of the changes in the world around them with no explanation given.
You are asking a question which has already been answered. I'm done debating over this with you. Why would an elementalist use a mine when it can use a meteor swarm? Why would a Guardian use a gun when it already long range spells that are just as effective. Why would a necromancer use turrets when it has minions?
You keep asking why the other professions didn't evolve with technology. The answer is easy. Evolution for them wasn't necessary. Natural evolution only occurs from necessity or when there is something better. Technology isn't necessary for the other professions and it isn't any better than anything they can do already. Why would they evolve when they don't need to?
P.S. The Guardian is a major evolution from the Paragon and protection Monk.
I can quote this all day long. Combat engineers are still new. I don't see a reason why any other professions need technology when they have their own equally powerful ways to cause destruction. Especially when the technology is still new to them. And your arguments for the Ranger and the Guardian are completely stupid. Silver bullets is the best you can come up with?
You can continue quoting it all day long.
Silver bullets where the first thing that popped into my mind. I'm sure you can think of some better way of combining guardian abilities and blackpowder, shouldn't be hard.
Engineering has been along long enough for tanks, cars, turrets, mines etc. The concept of blackpowder has, as many stated, been around since GW1. If the world is evolving in such a technological direction for those past 300 years why haven't the other professions evolved with it?
You've basically got the Engineer which has evolved for 300 years. The warrior and thief that changed a little bit. And the elementalist, necromancer, ranger and guardian which haven't changed in any way whatsoever regardless of the changes in the world around them with no explanation given.
Apparently they have. Either you are trying to reveal flaws in GW2's lore or you forgot what you said earlier. There is no point in debating this with you anymore. You ran out of arguments and now are completely contradicting yourself just to keep this going.
Engineers using magic does not equal other professions using engineering.....
Maybe engineering is uncivilised. ( LOL ) Again we are talking about people that never figured out how to ride an animal. Give them another 300 years and maybe they will figure out that magic users can combine magic and engineering.
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Charr as a race are mistrustful of magic. Any Charr who uses it is a minority and looked down upon. The Engineer is also the only class that originates with the Charr. And for your information, Charr have racial skill that allow them to use a pistol and also a racial skill where they throw a grenade. So all Charr can use technology in some way, whether they are a caster or not.
Such weapons are unciviliized, remember?
Actually, Gobla, you make a really interesting point. Maybe someone else has already addressed this (I haven't read through the entire dialogue), but on further reflection it does seem like the Engineer may be a little out of place in the GW lore....so far. I hope Anet has a solution to this by release, but it would make sense to have every profession and every racial area to have some level of this type of steampunk tech. Otherwise, how would other races besides the Charr ever become Engineers? Would they go study with the Charr? According to the lore, Humans and Charr tolerate each other barely enough to fight alongside each other. With that line of thought, would many humans be willing to study under the Charr to learn Engineering? Probably not. In that case, there would have to be some overlap of technologies among the different races.
Lorewise, I don't see this as much of a problem. It would make sense that the different races would influence one another and adopt certain ideas and technologies from each other. That's how it works in the real world so it would stand to reason that it would work in GW as well. Hopefully the devs address this issue before release. I see it as just a hole in the lore, but a kind of big one.
Either way, the Engineer looks like it might be pretty fun to play, especially in a damage support role. How much more fun can you get than blowing stuff up???
P.S. @Alot - I very much agree that Neil Gaiman is a fantastic writer with very interesting mixtures of fantasy and modernism.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Do Charr elementalists get access to special skills with said pistol? Do they combine their engineering and magic?
If minorities are playable then why aren't there minorities of human elementalists also using pistols and a few grenades?
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Resistance is futile.
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Sounds like a shallow George Lucas reason for why a Jedi wouldn't use a gun.... I'll buy that.
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A Charr using magic is a minority. A human being a combat engineer is a minority. Humans have been using magic since the first game, or have you decided to suddenly forget about that?
Yet Warriors train in a bit of magic to use mending and their signets.
Engineers use a bit of magic ( or at least interact with it ) for their absorb ability.
Why aren't other professions using a little bit of engineering?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Why are warriors not using meteor storms instead of chasing others with a blade? Gobla only directs this logic at the use of engineering devices, but not at all weapons. If you actually apply it at all used weapons, then there wouldnt be any need for professions. Let anyone use anything. But as it is, with profession means you are specialised in something. Conveniently forgetting that when new weapons are introduced is just stupid.
The only proffesions so far that don't have a gun are magic users.
My theme song.
eBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so they are already using technology.
Charr have also been using magic since the first game. Why haven't they integrated their magic and engineering?
Even if they became mistrustful there must still have been a minority ( like there is at the GW2 time ) that kept on using magic. Why haven't they combined their engineering and magic in any way at all?
From all the humans that went to study engineering with the Charr why weren't there any of them with even the slightest magical knowledge they could use to create some combinations of magic and engineering?
In a world that has both engineering and magic spread over all the races, even if recently, why is absolutely nobody combining the two? Why are half the GW2 classes not using any engineering abilities at all?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4240212#4240212
Apparently they have. Either you are trying to reveal flaws in GW2's lore or you forgot what you said earlier. There is no point in debating this with you anymore. You ran out of arguments and now are completely contradicting yourself just to keep this going.
Oh come on. It is obvious but you are now just argueing for the sake of argueing. You are stating my point. 'Warriors who train in a bit of magic' . I guess they have limited time just like everyone else and need to specialise in something. Otherwise there would be no professions. Its the whole idea of professions/classes. Geez.
Read up about the Flaming Legion and why they turned away from gods and magic for the most part. And stop trolling.
I don't know if I'd say that every profession should use some form of engineering, but I do think that there has to be some level of technology among all the races that would allow for all races to train in that profession. Since you pick your profession before you get beyond your starting area, your starting area needs to have access to the tech.
Something I just thought of....I guess the devs could get around all that by just putting a Charr Engineer Trainer in every starting area. That way, the different races wouldn't actually need the technology pervading their respective cultures nor would the other professions need to use the bits of engineering. Just a thought.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Maybe 300 years after GW2 in the world of GW3 we will see more mixing of engineering and magic. I mean we are talking about a world where people never figured out they could ride animals. Cut them some slack.
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It is entirely possible that some technology will be available in the form of consumables. Think along the lines of summoning stones from GW1. But then a temporarily turrent or golem.
But professions are professions and are specialised in certain weapons/magic/technology.
It's just weird that every class has some form of magic. Every class has some form of martial abilities. Yet only 3 classes have engineering related things.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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For all those claiming I'm trolling I posted this earlier. You don't have to reply to me. Ignore me if you want. But if you do reply I will reply back.
Just stop replying and skip my posts if you're not interested. Nobody is forcing you to read them.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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(")("),,(")("),(")(")
eBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562
I can quote this all day long. Combat engineers are still new. I don't see a reason why any other professions need technology when they have their own equally powerful ways to cause destruction. Especially when the technology is still new to them. And your arguments for the Ranger and the Guardian are completely stupid. Silver bullets is the best you can come up with?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4240222#4240222
I can link this too.
I guess from immersion perspective, that depends on the usage of said technology/magic and how much training you need to be able to use it. Why use it if it isnt better then what you replace it with? You keep ignoring that obvious reason. One can assume that engineering isnt more powerfull then magic in GW1 or 2.
A mine doesnt have to be more powerfull then a ranger trap. A rifle not more then a sword. So whats your point? Its not real life otherwise guns would be instant kill if aimed well and meteor showers would instantly kill a whole group.
You can continue quoting it all day long.
Silver bullets where the first thing that popped into my mind. I'm sure you can think of some better way of combining guardian abilities and blackpowder, shouldn't be hard.
Engineering has been along long enough for tanks, cars, turrets, mines etc. The concept of blackpowder has, as many stated, been around since GW1. If the world is evolving in such a technological direction for those past 300 years why haven't the other professions evolved with it?
You've basically got the Engineer which has evolved for 300 years. The warrior and thief that changed a little bit. And the elementalist, necromancer, ranger and guardian which haven't changed in any way whatsoever regardless of the changes in the world around them with no explanation given.
Engineers using magic does not equal other professions using engineering.....
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
You are asking a question which has already been answered. I'm done debating over this with you. Why would an elementalist use a mine when it can use a meteor swarm? Why would a Guardian use a gun when it already long range spells that are just as effective. Why would a necromancer use turrets when it has minions?
You keep asking why the other professions didn't evolve with technology. The answer is easy. Evolution for them wasn't necessary. Natural evolution only occurs from necessity or when there is something better. Technology isn't necessary for the other professions and it isn't any better than anything they can do already. Why would they evolve when they don't need to?
P.S. The Guardian is a major evolution from the Paragon and protection Monk.
Maybe engineering is uncivilised. ( LOL ) Again we are talking about people that never figured out how to ride an animal. Give them another 300 years and maybe they will figure out that magic users can combine magic and engineering.
My theme song.