You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
Spells don't home in on their targets. Just sayin'.
How can anyone say that the humans haven't adapted the clockwork technologies when their castle has a working clockwork representation of their solar system that is bigger than most of our houses?
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
Spells don't home in on their targets. Just sayin'.
Whatever balls of light that scepter is shooting in the skill videos sure seems to home on their targets. And is that really all you had to add? Does a small, seemingly false statement really detract from my overall argument? Hell, grenades don't home either, so me being wrong (which I don't think I am) doesn't really make a difference, just means that you have NON-homing balls of light that explode over NON-homing balls of gunpowder that explode.
You're right, of course. I was just about to put together a similar reply but you've saved me the effort, there are plenty of reasons why development and advancement aren't consistent, but you don't even need to look at fantasy to figure that out, seriously. Asking why the charr have clockpunk goodies when it isn't present in the rest of the world is like asking why the Native Americans were using bows instead of guns.
That's really important, I know Gobla and Engie haters will just airbrush over that and ignore it, but it's an important point, because not even the advancemtn of our world was consistent. Fact: Advancement isn't consistent across the world, nor is evolution, nor is culture, nor is anything. Even now not all parts of the world are advancing equally. It's kind of ludicrous to expect that and it creates a more believable world by having that. The humans are sort of like the Native Americans in this regard, they're still using bows & arrows in most cases because they haven't advanced along far enough to use other options, yet. But here's the thing...
The alliance is in place now and the charr factory city is providing for the entire alliance, but you're not going to see clockpunk spread across the map immediately. That would be unreasonable, inconsistent, and completely ridiculous. No, it's going to spread slowly. And here's a bit of truth: It's easier to teach people how to use these tools so that they can build their own stuff rather than having charr forces diverted to build shiny turrets for Divinity's Reach. This is why there isn't much of a clockpunk presence outside of the charr lands yet, but there are people being trained to be engineers by the charr. This makes perfect sense, really.
So I agree, I just think that haters are going to hate. The charr did advance faster in technology than any other race, the charr refined the Engineer as a job, like any other job, and those who're now a part of the alliance are becoming curious of charr technology, how they work, and how the charr do their job, so obviously you're going to have charr teaching people how to be Engineers. Now like I said elsethread, I don't think there'll be a lot of NPCs yet, because that would be slly, I tried to explain this to AKASlaphappy but I don't think he quite got it, regardless... I don't think Engineer NPCs will be everywhere.
Like a Guardian charr, it's a bit of a silly concept, and to the race itself it's not going to work out right away, you'll have charr who'll think of the Guardian as a class based on Faith, and something that a charr shouldn't do, therefore you have no Guardian charr NPCs (and there aren't any). And likewise, humanity would be hesitant to rely on the technology of their ex-foes more than they have to (you may be in favour of the treaty, but ou still may not trust an imposing, unstable looking charr turret), so you're not going to have many Engineer human NPCs. The idea though is however silly these things are, you have the players exploring them.
You have players going to the Black Citadel and learning about charr technology, regardless of their race, and specialising in it as an evolutionary aspect of that world, and you have players going to Divinity's Reach as a charr and learning about the Guardian (since there are no charr Guardian NPCs), so these are silly combinations, really, and they're not thematically fitting, but they'll push the world forward in that regard.
But you can't expect everyone to be everything overnight.
(Clarity.)
(I hope this makes sense because I'm finding it a really hard concept to explain. What I'm saying essentially is that culturally people are just set in their ways.)
Native Americans used plenty of guns when they could get their hands on them.....
I'm not saying every class should be everything. But every class should show influences of the world around them. Guardians shouldn't suddenly turn into power armored space marines, but they should reflect that they're not living in a midievil world but instead a more renaissance like time.
If humans are allowed to become engineers then it's only logical for them to take that knowledge back home. It's only logical they show a bit of that knowledge to other classes. It won't suddenly turn their homeland into clockpunk center but it will show it's influence. It won't turn those other classes to pure gun users but it will influence them.
You're right, the world is evolving with new technology. So the world should reflect that. Culturally people are set in their ways, but they're not static. Both cultures change. That Charr Guardian suddenly suffers amnesia when he goes to Divinity's Reach? Forgets all about any mechanical knowledge? A Human Engineer just *poof* forgets any distrust of Engineering whatsoever and goes full out on gadgets?
The problem is that there's no middle-ground. There's no guardians that use a little bit of Engineering. There's no Engineers using a little bit of martial weapons. This way it doesn't reflect a natural evolving and changing world. It reflects two completely different worlds ducktaped together.
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
Spells don't home in on their targets. Just sayin'.
Whatever balls of light that scepter is shooting in the skill videos sure seems to home on their targets. And is that really all you had to add? Does a small, seemingly false statement really detract from my overall argument? Hell, grenades don't home either, so me being wrong (which I don't think I am) doesn't really make a difference, just means that you have NON-homing balls of light that explode over NON-homing balls of gunpowder that explode.
Wasn't trying to counter your argument. Simply correcting an incorrect statement.
Guild Wars 1 already had gunpowder (kegs) and metallurgy (Sorrow's Furnace anyone, Asuran areas) to create golems for example and in first mission in Nightfall where you use catapults to launch kegs at ships. So 250 years later, Engineer seems like a natural development of this.
I like the profession and I also think it does fit into GW2 even if you dont take GW1 into account. If you only look at the Charr starting area, you already see a similar style used in the buildings. All the rotating gears, metal domes, rotating chimneys. Charr starting area looks like Engineer land Thief and Warrior already use guns, so there is gunpowder. Add alchemy and magic and you have an Engineer. Engineer looks like a colaboration of Charr technology and Asuran Magic.
As for combat mechanics, there is nothing new here. Turrets= Rit spirits, mines=ranger traps, grenades= any ranged AOE projectile. The absorb skill using the shield, is similar to the thieving skills in GW1.
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
I get what you're saying but the problem I see is that you basically have a huge split in the explanation for the world and the world itself.
So Charr invented Engineering because they turned away from magic and gods. Cool, I can get with that. They needed an alternative for the things magic can do so they went with Engineering. Logical. Then there's untalented individuals from other species learning the Engineering trade to still be a valueable member of society, sure thing.
Yet in-game there will be thousands of Charr elementalists, necromancers, guardians etc. All these Charr that were supposedly raised in this technological culture where Engineering is the ultimate art can't do any Engineering at all?
In-game the most magical races will also have thousands of Engineers. These individuals, now matter how untalented, that were raised in this highly magical culture where everything is created through magic can't think of any ways at all to combine magic and engineering?
In a believable world Engineering wouldn't just stop at the Charr border. It would seep through and influence the rest of the world.
Magic is integrated. Engineers have the Absorb skill which means that even though they aren't Magicians themselves they do recognise the existance of magic and use it. Warriors use magical signets and have the Mending ability even though they don't have any/much magical talent themselves. Every class uses some form of magic. Every culture in GW2 recognises the existance of magic and uses it.
Engineering is not integrated. Thiefs and Warriors can use some fire-arms but nothing more and all the other classes are acting like it doesn't even exist. Sylvari culture looks like it hasn't ever even seen Engineering.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
People who take the realistic approach as for why are there still martial weapons while they have guns, conveniently forget that any high fantasy magic game has a similar unrealistic situation.
I mean, what makes guns so much more dangerous then a meteor storm or setting someone on fire from a distance? Characters still have a fighting chance with martial weapons against meteorstorms or being set on fire, but not against guns?
From a logical standpoint (or immersive point of view), there is no reason to be against Engineer. Its not more dangerous then magic and its not more technologically advanced then independantly working golems which you already had in GW1. It actually looks crude next to golems.
Yeah, that's how I feel. I've been with fantasy for a long time, I've probably been reading fantasy for longer than some of the people here have been alive, and I've seen a lot of different genres and approaches to fantasy and science-fantasy. It is hypocritical to single out Engineers, but... it's hard to get people to realise that.
That's a shame, because fantasy becomes all the more richer the more fantastic it is, and having mixes of technology, magic, and all sorts of other weirdness increase the fantastic factor. Neil Gaiman is a great writer in regards to this, and as I recall the man likes his clockpunk and clockwork people, too.
For me it's not so much engineers. It's more the apperant inconsistency of the world.
I completely agree that adding more elements to a fantasy world can enrich it but it should be done consistently.
Mixing clockpunk into things is fine, but it should be mixed into everything. This feels a lot like they mixed steam punk into engineers and the Charr but left it completely out of everything else. The entire problem is that it's possible to single out engineers, to me they don't feel in line with the rest of the world.
Even if for whatever reason other races and professions don't use engineering a lot then there should still be influences from that whole clockpunk thing. Give the other classes some minor gadgets as well. I mean the Engineer has Dwayna's symbol on his healing backpack, that's consistency. Why not give every class some clockpunk gadgets so the whole clockpunk thing feels like a real part of the world instead of just randomly ducktaped on.
In my perception it's one step short of just giving a lightsabre to the warrior class without any further explanation at all.
Ps. If anyone thinks I'm bashing this thing too much then just ignore me. I enjoy diving into things like this and hearing everyone's arguments about it. It's unlikely I'll radically change my point of view but it'll still enrich my perceptions on these things which is why I go into discussions like these in the first place.
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
0:20-0:25, what are those then? Or are they auto-attacks (which are supposed to be basic spells).
Just because it looks like it is doesn't mean that it actually is. The devs have stated that spells don't home in on their targets.
The video you linked is only the staged skill videos. Those don't prove anything. It's also very easy to say something is homing in on a target if it's moving in a straight line.
0:20-0:25, what are those then? Or are they auto-attacks (which are supposed to be basic spells).
Just because it looks like it is doesn't mean that it actually is. The devs have stated that spells don't home in on their targets.
The video you linked is only the staged skill videos. Those don't prove anything. It's also very easy to say something is homing in on a target if it's moving in a straight line.
Its possible that aiming is automatic and that dodging only works when doing one of those rolls. So if you dont move, the other will hit you if you are highlighted.
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
I get what you're saying but the problem I see is that you basically have a huge split in the explanation for the world and the world itself.
So Charr invented Engineering because they turned away from magic and gods. Cool, I can get with that. They needed an alternative for the things magic can do so they went with Engineering. Logical. Then there's untalented individuals from other species learning the Engineering trade to still be a valueable member of society, sure thing.
Yet in-game there will be thousands of Charr elementalists, necromancers, guardians etc. All these Charr that were supposedly raised in this technological culture where Engineering is the ultimate art can't do any Engineering at all?
In-game the most magical races will also have thousands of Engineers. These individuals, now matter how untalented, that were raised in this highly magical culture where everything is created through magic can't think of any ways at all to combine magic and engineering?
In a believable world Engineering wouldn't just stop at the Charr border. It would seep through and influence the rest of the world.
Magic is integrated. Engineers have the Absorb skill which means that even though they aren't Magicians themselves they do recognise the existance of magic and use it. Warriors use magical signets and have the Mending ability even though they don't have any/much magical talent themselves. Every class uses some form of magic. Every culture in GW2 recognises the existance of magic and uses it.
Engineering is not integrated. Thiefs and Warriors can use some fire-arms but nothing more and all the other classes are acting like it doesn't even exist. Sylvari culture looks like it hasn't ever even seen Engineering.
More advanced technology was already present in GW1. Engineer is crude compared to golems. A turret is nothing but a crude piece of machinery, steered by magic. Golem is high tech next to it.
Then the explanation as why other races can be Engineer. Just look at the flythrough of Lions Arch. The different races are into contact and trade with each other more then in Guild Wars 1.
0:20-0:25, what are those then? Or are they auto-attacks (which are supposed to be basic spells).
Just because it looks like it is doesn't mean that it actually is. The devs have stated that spells don't home in on their targets.
The video you linked is only the staged skill videos. Those don't prove anything. It's also very easy to say something is homing in on a target if it's moving in a straight line.
Its possible that aiming is automatic and that dodging only works when doing one of those rolls. So if you dont move, the other will hit you if you are highlighted.
Aiming is automatic. But the spell will only move in a straight line. If you move in a perpendicular direction to it once it is fired then it will miss you if you do it fast enough. The spell won't turn and start following you.
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Why are all the classes still using martial weapons when there's rapid-fire gunpowder available? I mean I'd understand if there were like muskets which could only be fired once before melee ensued but they're not.
I think the answer is that PVP balance shapes the world.
For instance, if you're approaching it from a real world perspective, then guns kill people. From a real world perspective, swords and axes also kill people. But nobody uses swords and axes to fight anymore because of the insurmountable range advantage guns provide.
But in the GW2 universe, yes, you have rapid fire gunpowder but it's not even close to immediately lethal. Swords and axes aren't immediately lethal. People can also go flying across the area or dodge your bullets.
People don't use martial weapons in the real world because they're not on equal footing against people with guns. In Tyria, they are.
Why?
As I said, I don't expect the game to make sense according to RL laws and physics. But I do expect it to make sense according to it's own laws and physics.
But there's nothing at all stating why guns have some sort of hidden disadvantage. As I mentioned, Warhammer has guns but they're very prone to misfire. That's a disadvantage explaining why in Warhammer guns aren't superior to martial weapons. And why people are still walking around in full plate even though bullets could easily rip right through it.
They could have made a great interesting and logical class that made sense in the world they're constructing if they spend some time thinking about things like this. Instead they just chose to go with "What looks cool?" and left it at that.
As I said, I'm probably a minority who cares about this type of stuff. But it is the reason why I don't like the Engineer.
also you need to take into account that one can activly dodge projectiles you wont have bows fireing arrows that can cruve around walls...same thing for guns
0:20-0:25, what are those then? Or are they auto-attacks (which are supposed to be basic spells).
Just because it looks like it is doesn't mean that it actually is. The devs have stated that spells don't home in on their targets.
The video you linked is only the staged skill videos. Those don't prove anything. It's also very easy to say something is homing in on a target if it's moving in a straight line.
Its possible that aiming is automatic and that dodging only works when doing one of those rolls. So if you dont move, the other will hit you if you are highlighted.
Aiming is automatic. But the spell will only move in a straight line. If you move in a perpendicular direction to it once it is fired then it will miss you if you do it fast enough. The spell won't turn and start following you.
Thanks, thats good to know. I like being able to dodge projectiles Just wasnt sure how you could do it.
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
Having a slow repeating pistol doesnt mean you are automatically safe with it. Helps if you actually can aim with it if someone is rushing at you with a sharp blade. Not to mention that you keep forgetting that there are no instant death projecties in Guild Wars 2. Not even meteors!
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
DeBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so nothing can be said about them.
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
Having a slow repeating pistol doesnt mean you are automatically safe with it. Helps if you actually can aim with it if someone is rushing at you with a sharp blade. Not to mention that you keep forgetting that there are no instant death projecties in Guild Wars 2. Not even meteors!
I'm sorry but how exactly is your reply related to my post?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
When you have magic powerful enough to raise the dead, summon spirits, conjure fire, frost, rock, air and lightning, heal wounds instantly and create magical shields that deflect physical damage, why is ANYONE using swords, or wooden arrows?
When you have infinite ammo and are capable of creating large magical/machinacal golems, why aren't you making massive projectile launching machines that fire endless rounds of arrows/rocks/whatever over and over again at your enemies?
Why are there farms and farmers when I never have to eat or dink to survive?
A lot of crap doesn't make sense... same as in most RPG's. I don't see why this class is somehow unique.
DeBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
New is cool. By why aren't the other Charr professions integrating their magic and martial abilities with the all prevelent engineering?
Engineering has obviously been around for some time in the Charr culture as they're building tanks and such already. Yet only the warrior and thief have started using blackpowder weapons. The rest of the classes don't have anything related to engineering at all.
A Charr elementalist who's been surrounded by Engineering his entire life and was raised among a race in the midst of an extreme technological revolution doesn't have any form of engineering gadgets whatsoever? Wouldn't it be logical for him to carry some gadgets for when he's silenced? Maybe use a pistol since that's the weapon he was raised around and use his elementalist spells in special combinations with that?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
So then why don't the Jedi use pistols in TOR? I'm sure a jedi could pwn with a blaster but they don't. Why?
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
Having a slow repeating pistol doesnt mean you are automatically safe with it. Helps if you actually can aim with it if someone is rushing at you with a sharp blade. Not to mention that you keep forgetting that there are no instant death projecties in Guild Wars 2. Not even meteors!
I'm sorry but how exactly is your reply related to my post?
It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Comments
gobla, you keep using Guardians being medieval as opposed to the Engineer being "too advanced" for the game setting as your argument, and I understand your position (I'm not too big of a fan of the Engineer's mines), but there's really a simple answer as to why the Guardian is still around and why he doesn't use guns:
Why would someone who can stop bullets with a wave of his hand, producing an omni-directional anti-projectile shield of holy faith, smite foes from a distance, and who has the ability to teleport/phase through the air to a far away target and cut them down with a two-handed sword as large as they are tall in the space of a second ever need engineering to aid them in their battles? You mentioned a "holy hand grenade" sort of thing, why does a Guardian need that when s/he can shoot balls of exploding light out of a scepter that home on their target? The same can be said of classes like the Elementalist or Necromancer. They can rain death from above or below on their enemies, why would they need guns or bombs when a meteor or suicide bombing minion could do the same job?
In all truth it makes sense why the Engineer arose in that its a distinctly CHARR creation. Having both forsaken magic and gods, and their only route being technology, it makes absolute sense why they would produce such a profession. And as to why some people among other races where divine or magical power are more prominent take up the engineer's role? The answer is really simple: "lack of talent" you could call it. Not all people are created equally in their talents, otherwise every single person in every single fantasy setting would be the most powerful "class" available (usually a mage).
Spells don't home in on their targets. Just sayin'.
How can anyone say that the humans haven't adapted the clockwork technologies when their castle has a working clockwork representation of their solar system that is bigger than most of our houses?
Whatever balls of light that scepter is shooting in the skill videos sure seems to home on their targets. And is that really all you had to add? Does a small, seemingly false statement really detract from my overall argument? Hell, grenades don't home either, so me being wrong (which I don't think I am) doesn't really make a difference, just means that you have NON-homing balls of light that explode over NON-homing balls of gunpowder that explode.
Wasn't trying to counter your argument. Simply correcting an incorrect statement.
Guild Wars 1 already had gunpowder (kegs) and metallurgy (Sorrow's Furnace anyone, Asuran areas) to create golems for example and in first mission in Nightfall where you use catapults to launch kegs at ships. So 250 years later, Engineer seems like a natural development of this.
I like the profession and I also think it does fit into GW2 even if you dont take GW1 into account. If you only look at the Charr starting area, you already see a similar style used in the buildings. All the rotating gears, metal domes, rotating chimneys. Charr starting area looks like Engineer land
Thief and Warrior already use guns, so there is gunpowder. Add alchemy and magic and you have an Engineer. Engineer looks like a colaboration of Charr technology and Asuran Magic.
As for combat mechanics, there is nothing new here. Turrets= Rit spirits, mines=ranger traps, grenades= any ranged AOE projectile. The absorb skill using the shield, is similar to the thieving skills in GW1.
@romanator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvYxoURQbPI
0:20-0:25, what are those then? Or are they auto-attacks (which are supposed to be basic spells).
I get what you're saying but the problem I see is that you basically have a huge split in the explanation for the world and the world itself.
So Charr invented Engineering because they turned away from magic and gods. Cool, I can get with that. They needed an alternative for the things magic can do so they went with Engineering. Logical. Then there's untalented individuals from other species learning the Engineering trade to still be a valueable member of society, sure thing.
Yet in-game there will be thousands of Charr elementalists, necromancers, guardians etc. All these Charr that were supposedly raised in this technological culture where Engineering is the ultimate art can't do any Engineering at all?
In-game the most magical races will also have thousands of Engineers. These individuals, now matter how untalented, that were raised in this highly magical culture where everything is created through magic can't think of any ways at all to combine magic and engineering?
In a believable world Engineering wouldn't just stop at the Charr border. It would seep through and influence the rest of the world.
Magic is integrated. Engineers have the Absorb skill which means that even though they aren't Magicians themselves they do recognise the existance of magic and use it. Warriors use magical signets and have the Mending ability even though they don't have any/much magical talent themselves. Every class uses some form of magic. Every culture in GW2 recognises the existance of magic and uses it.
Engineering is not integrated. Thiefs and Warriors can use some fire-arms but nothing more and all the other classes are acting like it doesn't even exist. Sylvari culture looks like it hasn't ever even seen Engineering.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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People who take the realistic approach as for why are there still martial weapons while they have guns, conveniently forget that any high fantasy magic game has a similar unrealistic situation.
I mean, what makes guns so much more dangerous then a meteor storm or setting someone on fire from a distance? Characters still have a fighting chance with martial weapons against meteorstorms or being set on fire, but not against guns?
From a logical standpoint (or immersive point of view), there is no reason to be against Engineer. Its not more dangerous then magic and its not more technologically advanced then independantly working golems which you already had in GW1. It actually looks crude next to golems.
I don't see what the big problem is that you have with the engineer and the devices he uses, i mean with videos of charr using tanks and batman looking cars, i don't see your point of engineer not fiting into lore. Maybe the charr invented all of those machines that engineer used and they started selling it and trading that technology with other races thus merchants have been selling them to people and thats how merchants have been created. Also humans are also known for reverse engineering other technologies so they could easily copy charr turrets and mines! And also i read u said how they didn't make the entire game with guns sense they are using rifle guns, but still kept sword and axes, well look at StarWars they still use swords there and they can travel thru space, WH40K also still using swords and axes, and many other futuristic games still use swords!
Just because it looks like it is doesn't mean that it actually is. The devs have stated that spells don't home in on their targets.
The video you linked is only the staged skill videos. Those don't prove anything. It's also very easy to say something is homing in on a target if it's moving in a straight line.
Its possible that aiming is automatic and that dodging only works when doing one of those rolls. So if you dont move, the other will hit you if you are highlighted.
More advanced technology was already present in GW1. Engineer is crude compared to golems. A turret is nothing but a crude piece of machinery, steered by magic. Golem is high tech next to it.
Then the explanation as why other races can be Engineer. Just look at the flythrough of Lions Arch. The different races are into contact and trade with each other more then in Guild Wars 1.
Aiming is automatic. But the spell will only move in a straight line. If you move in a perpendicular direction to it once it is fired then it will miss you if you do it fast enough. The spell won't turn and start following you.
It's not about the usage of guns/swords. It's about it being an integrated part of the world. In Star Wars half the world isn't acting like swords don't exist. Most Star Wars soldiers still carry vibro blades to counter any melee threats. Advanced units have special armors that offer aditional protection against lightsabres. in WH40K everyone has swords. Space Marines always carry daggers and often chainswords. Orks always have choppas. Imperial guard have bayonets etc. Nobody is acting like swords don't exist.
Yet half the GW2 classes and cultures look like nobody informed them that Engineering hasn't just been in existance for a short while but has even been constructing tanks and batmobiles. Why don't all the classes have access to pistols? Why don't all the magicians carry a few emergency gadgets for when they're silenced or don't have time to cast a spell? Why don't Necromancers strap some steam device to their minions to make them even more powerful? etc. Half the GW2 world is acting like Engineering doesn't exist.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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also you need to take into account that one can activly dodge projectiles you wont have bows fireing arrows that can cruve around walls...same thing for guns
Thanks, thats good to know. I like being able to dodge projectiles
Just wasnt sure how you could do it.
Having a slow repeating pistol doesnt mean you are automatically safe with it. Helps if you actually can aim with it if someone is rushing at you with a sharp blade. Not to mention that you keep forgetting that there are no instant death projecties in Guild Wars 2. Not even meteors!
DeBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?
Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562
Apparently other races being combat engineers is still relatively new.
Not every profession needs to have technology for it to make sense.
Rangers are a nature attuned profession and they probably look down on guns.
Guardians have no use for them and are basically immune to them becauseof their wards.
Elementalists have no use for them because they have fireballs and meteor swarms. If someone gets too close to them then they can just push them away with a spell or move away with another.
Necros also have no need for them because of their spells. Their minions can also act as their own types of turrets.
Warriors and Thieves are able to use guns so nothing can be said about them.
I'm sorry but how exactly is your reply related to my post?
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Resistance is futile.
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When you have magic powerful enough to raise the dead, summon spirits, conjure fire, frost, rock, air and lightning, heal wounds instantly and create magical shields that deflect physical damage, why is ANYONE using swords, or wooden arrows?
When you have infinite ammo and are capable of creating large magical/machinacal golems, why aren't you making massive projectile launching machines that fire endless rounds of arrows/rocks/whatever over and over again at your enemies?
Why are there farms and farmers when I never have to eat or dink to survive?
A lot of crap doesn't make sense... same as in most RPG's. I don't see why this class is somehow unique.
New is cool. By why aren't the other Charr professions integrating their magic and martial abilities with the all prevelent engineering?
Engineering has obviously been around for some time in the Charr culture as they're building tanks and such already. Yet only the warrior and thief have started using blackpowder weapons. The rest of the classes don't have anything related to engineering at all.
A Charr elementalist who's been surrounded by Engineering his entire life and was raised among a race in the midst of an extreme technological revolution doesn't have any form of engineering gadgets whatsoever? Wouldn't it be logical for him to carry some gadgets for when he's silenced? Maybe use a pistol since that's the weapon he was raised around and use his elementalist spells in special combinations with that?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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So then why don't the Jedi use pistols in TOR? I'm sure a jedi could pwn with a blaster but they don't. Why?
My theme song.
Because TOR is in fact not a perfect game?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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It shows that guns are not overpowered in any way. Not more overpowered the devastating magic or a warrior trained in wielding martial weapons. All weapons need training and professions are professions for being specialised in certain things. Why start debating that now, while you can do exactly the same with other professions and other weapons?
Different weapons require different training.