People seem to be missing the point of the Original Post here. Now im guessing alot of people commenting here dont watch the MMO report on g4tv. I make it a point to watch it every week online at there website. If you go to the mmo report section of the site, you can watch past episodes to verify what my observation about the host of the show: Casey Shriener.
Casey has been nothing but a total fanboy about SWTOR ever since he heard about it. He has made it a point to bring up every minor update on the games development for over the least year (and then some), and gushes about it with genuine excitement over it with statements about it being to the effect of his reason for living. He has been the posterchild for SWTOR fanboy on his show.
The sudden change in his outlook concerning SWTOR vs. GW2 stems from actual time playing the game over the course of a single weekend. He was complimentary about GW2 before this weekend, but nothing like his excitement for SWTOR. Now he has PLAYED GW2. His co-worker who they bring up in the op's video had PLAYED GW2 FOR 47 HOURS during that weekend.
Now i can understand why the hardcore SWTOR fans are defensive over this. This guy who was a hardcore SWTOR fanboy basically switched his position over the course of a single weekend. Now this is just one guys opinion, but i think there is a fear of being in the minority game that alot of people have. It was the whole reason alot of people played WoW as opposed to games they admitted to liking better, simply because it was what everyone else played. Its the same way i felt about the fact that i liked GW better than WoW but couldnt get my friends to join me. It wasnt because they didnt like GW. It was because they felt pressured to play the more popular game for social reasons.
It is either that or people need to quit treating fandom like its an ideology. I will be playing GW2, but im also interested in TSW and im actually hopeful that SWTOR will be a good game.
Once I buy the box, I'm forever part of the player base?
Or, only if I play the game? how much do I have to play the game?
One hour in three months, and I'm still part of the player base?
More than that? How much more?
If I play one hour in three months, am I part of the player base just the month I played the hour in, or all the months because I haven't "cancelled"?
With P2P we don't worry about how much they play.
We count how many people are paying.
Whether they log on or not, they are counted if they pay the sub fee.
How do you compare that to B2P?
Most subscription MMOs don't release numbers. We judge them based on how many servers there are, and how well populated those servers seem to be. We can also use XFire and the like as a sample. F2P, B2P, or sub - same, regardless.
As for revenue, it's not like GW2 won't be earning more, the more popular it is. They'll just be earning it differently.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I definately agree with Casey here, even though I have the fullest respect for SWTOR as a game. I just personally don't believe it's going to hook me up, if I get my hands on either GW2 or TERA before SWTOR release I'm not even going to buy it. I'm planning on playing TERA till I can get GW2 on my desktop. Whether I stay in TERA after that, only time will tell.
SWTOR is going to be a good game, great even, quite possibly. However, in my opinion GW2 is going to beat it. It'll be funny to see if I'll get to eat this up sometime next year.
What I dislike about this is that people seem to think his opinion mattered.
Hell I was just like him, I used to be extremly hyped and amped for GW2 then I played it and found it to be the same tap targeting crap I played in WoW only with a dodge button and fewer skills. It was the exact same problem I hate with the first one (Minus the Dodge button) and at this point I don't care if its open worlds or not.
Would be interesting to see if Casey got more hands-on time with SW:TOR if the pendulum of his opinion would swing back again.
Just sayin'.
I don't really care about this pitched interwebz battle over which of the 2 games will be king of the virtual hill. I just want them both to be good games that keep players happy. 2 places to go and have fun. Add TSW to the mix and we have three potential crowd-pleasers. It's all good, they're all different games, and I bet I'm not the only one that'll give each of them a try.
I'll stick with the one that turns out to be the most fun for me. As of now I have no clue which that'll be.
What I dislike about this is that people seem to think his opinion mattered.
Hell I was just like him, I used to be extremly hyped and amped for GW2 then I played it and found it to be the same tap targeting crap I played in WoW only with a dodge button and fewer skills. It was the exact same problem I hate with the first one (Minus the Dodge button) and at this point I don't care if its open worlds or not.
Hmm, so it's Snaylor's opinion (an anonymous guy from the MMRPG.com forum) or opinion of PC Gamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, G4, Kotaku, Demonoid, Massively, Penny Arcade and bunch independent blogs. Hmmm, who should i trust ?
What I dislike about this is that people seem to think his opinion mattered.
Hell I was just like him, I used to be extremly hyped and amped for GW2 then I played it and found it to be the same tap targeting crap I played in WoW only with a dodge button and fewer skills. It was the exact same problem I hate with the first one (Minus the Dodge button) and at this point I don't care if its open worlds or not.
Hmm, so it's Snaylor's opinion (an anonymous guy from the MMRPG.com forum) or opinion of PC Gamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, G4, Kotaku, Demonoid, Massively, Penny Arcade and bunch independent blogs. Hmmm, who should i trust ?
You should trust your own opinion.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
What I dislike about this is that people seem to think his opinion mattered.
Hell I was just like him, I used to be extremly hyped and amped for GW2 then I played it and found it to be the same tap targeting crap I played in WoW only with a dodge button and fewer skills. It was the exact same problem I hate with the first one (Minus the Dodge button) and at this point I don't care if its open worlds or not.
Hmm, so it's Snaylor's opinion (an anonymous guy from the MMRPG.com forum) or opinion of PC Gamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, G4, Kotaku, Demonoid, Massively, Penny Arcade and bunch independent blogs. Hmmm, who should i trust ?
You should trust your own opinion.
He hasn't played the game yet, so he's looking for the opinion of someone who did play the game. Like Casey Schreiner.
Casey Schreiner from G4 (The MMO Report): "I think that Guild Wars2 is going to be the next big MMO. I think it's gonna beat SWTOR. I think it's gonna be a better game than SWToR... I think with SWToR you're gonna see a lot of people sign up initially,, they're gonna find out that it's a well made game in SW universe that doesn't offer a lot of innovation, and when they see what GW is doing they're gonna be shocked."
While I respect Casey and watch his show every week, it is difficult to take his opinions seriously. He usually praises pretty much everything and badmouths respectable games..only later to praise them again. Hes a common press game critic that knows slightly more about MMORPGs then other people do in the industry. I am not going to disagree with him, but I won't agree with him either.
"Beating" SWTOR would take a game that fits in the same MMO category. People who play games like WoW, Rift,ect are going to be more interested in a game familiar to them then a game that innovates new features that may or may not be hit or miss. The people playing those games favor the "carrot on a stick" approach to gameplay, whereas Guild Wars has always proven not to focus so much on that and Guild Wars 2 looks to be no different in that regard.
I am fairly certain both games will be huge successes and move the MMO genre forward in their own ways. I don't see them as direct competition and feel that both games will attract new players to the MMO genre.
Not to mention that the two titles have vastly different payment plans, so even after the fact it will be hard to tell which one is the true "winner". Pretty much everyone I have talked to is going to get both since Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee.
Casey Schreiner from G4 (The MMO Report): "I think that Guild Wars2 is going to be the next big MMO. I think it's gonna beat SWTOR. I think it's gonna be a better game than SWToR... I think with SWToR you're gonna see a lot of people sign up initially,, they're gonna find out that it's a well made game in SW universe that doesn't offer a lot of innovation, and when they see what GW is doing they're gonna be shocked."
Casey Schreiner from G4 (The MMO Report): "I think that Guild Wars2 is going to be the next big MMO. I think it's gonna beat SWTOR. I think it's gonna be a better game than SWToR... I think with SWToR you're gonna see a lot of people sign up initially,, they're gonna find out that it's a well made game in SW universe that doesn't offer a lot of innovation, and when they see what GW is doing they're gonna be shocked."
Let see, what game will do better, a rather solo oriented game with traditional wow-like concept + single player storyline where you have to pay every month, or a rather group oriented game with new mechanics and graphics where you don't have to pay every month?
Casey Schreiner from G4 (The MMO Report): "I think that Guild Wars2 is going to be the next big MMO. I think it's gonna beat SWTOR. I think it's gonna be a better game than SWToR... I think with SWToR you're gonna see a lot of people sign up initially,, they're gonna find out that it's a well made game in SW universe that doesn't offer a lot of innovation, and when they see what GW is doing they're gonna be shocked."
I think...i think.... i am going to have a large pint of beer with kebabs.
An excellent choice.
Thank you. I was just thinking my thoughts out loud just like Casey.
And on topic. Rational people who are not biased or zealous fans of either game would stick to their opinions once a demo or trial is out. It is not logical to forum your opinions on basis of another human being like Miss Casey. Who could be just as wrong as me or anyone else.
If she said the opposite all you TOR boys would be using it as a heavy argument in every other thread in here so stop pretending u dont care about this random opinion
This goes to GW2 fans as well
it is still merely an opinion (one that I agree with but thats not the point, really)
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
What I dislike about this is that people seem to think his opinion mattered.
Hell I was just like him, I used to be extremly hyped and amped for GW2 then I played it and found it to be the same tap targeting crap I played in WoW only with a dodge button and fewer skills. It was the exact same problem I hate with the first one (Minus the Dodge button) and at this point I don't care if its open worlds or not.
Hmm, so it's Snaylor's opinion (an anonymous guy from the MMRPG.com forum) or opinion of PC Gamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, G4, Kotaku, Demonoid, Massively, Penny Arcade and bunch independent blogs. Hmmm, who should i trust ?
Most of the mainstream gaming website also spoke highly of TOR. Honestly for a game as highly followed as it I was shocked when I only found about 5 negative articals that were more then, "Wah WoW clone" or "Wah I want SWG2" which seem to be were most of the critisism for this game lays.
All I have to say is I was once looking forward to the game, I played it and I did not like it all to much, sorry I don't write for any gaming website.
Casey Schreiner from G4 (The MMO Report): "I think that Guild Wars2 is going to be the next big MMO. I think it's gonna beat SWTOR. I think it's gonna be a better game than SWToR... I think with SWToR you're gonna see a lot of people sign up initially,, they're gonna find out that it's a well made game in SW universe that doesn't offer a lot of innovation, and when they see what GW is doing they're gonna be shocked."
The Interesting thing is not what he states, as there are advocates and fanboys for both games all over the net. But it is interesting that he has changed his mind. As a huge SWTOR fan in all, he is now praising GW2, that he more or less have been neglected until now.
I for my part is looking forward to his next MMO report (maybe today) where I think he should dive into why he have been converted. Then we can judge if he is to have credability!
(I actual read the first 20 pages of this thread just to see if someone got this angle- then i gave up- i just don't get this numbers discussion that goes on here as important in regard to his statement.)
Comments
People seem to be missing the point of the Original Post here. Now im guessing alot of people commenting here dont watch the MMO report on g4tv. I make it a point to watch it every week online at there website. If you go to the mmo report section of the site, you can watch past episodes to verify what my observation about the host of the show: Casey Shriener.
Casey has been nothing but a total fanboy about SWTOR ever since he heard about it. He has made it a point to bring up every minor update on the games development for over the least year (and then some), and gushes about it with genuine excitement over it with statements about it being to the effect of his reason for living. He has been the posterchild for SWTOR fanboy on his show.
The sudden change in his outlook concerning SWTOR vs. GW2 stems from actual time playing the game over the course of a single weekend. He was complimentary about GW2 before this weekend, but nothing like his excitement for SWTOR. Now he has PLAYED GW2. His co-worker who they bring up in the op's video had PLAYED GW2 FOR 47 HOURS during that weekend.
Now i can understand why the hardcore SWTOR fans are defensive over this. This guy who was a hardcore SWTOR fanboy basically switched his position over the course of a single weekend. Now this is just one guys opinion, but i think there is a fear of being in the minority game that alot of people have. It was the whole reason alot of people played WoW as opposed to games they admitted to liking better, simply because it was what everyone else played. Its the same way i felt about the fact that i liked GW better than WoW but couldnt get my friends to join me. It wasnt because they didnt like GW. It was because they felt pressured to play the more popular game for social reasons.
It is either that or people need to quit treating fandom like its an ideology. I will be playing GW2, but im also interested in TSW and im actually hopeful that SWTOR will be a good game.
Also: Since when did GW or GW2 have elves?
Interesting. And unusual. 26+ pages in LESS THAN ONE DAY. Slightly hot-tempered, aren't we?
This forum really needs more /faceslap.
I'm sure I won't find a thread on the official SW:TOR forums on this, and I'm sure that I will find a thread on GW2Guru. Sure. Sure.
In your dreams.
Sorry to dissapoint you:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=360251
Make six Guildwars movies over the course of thirty years, take two aspirin and call me in the morning
I'll pick up on this one.
GW2 have Norn
and she looks just as good ingame
Most subscription MMOs don't release numbers. We judge them based on how many servers there are, and how well populated those servers seem to be. We can also use XFire and the like as a sample. F2P, B2P, or sub - same, regardless.
As for revenue, it's not like GW2 won't be earning more, the more popular it is. They'll just be earning it differently.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
This ^
The more good games appearing on the market the better, its not as though we've been spoiled for choice lately.
Considering GW2 doesn't come w/ a subscription fee, that seems like a pretty safe bet.... regardless of whether its better or not.
I definately agree with Casey here, even though I have the fullest respect for SWTOR as a game. I just personally don't believe it's going to hook me up, if I get my hands on either GW2 or TERA before SWTOR release I'm not even going to buy it. I'm planning on playing TERA till I can get GW2 on my desktop. Whether I stay in TERA after that, only time will tell.
SWTOR is going to be a good game, great even, quite possibly. However, in my opinion GW2 is going to beat it. It'll be funny to see if I'll get to eat this up sometime next year.
Tweet at me - Visit my website
I'm going to play SWTOR ...
... about GW2, after I got bored from playing GW1 after just a couple of days, I'm probably not going to touch GW2 with a footpole.
What I dislike about this is that people seem to think his opinion mattered.
Hell I was just like him, I used to be extremly hyped and amped for GW2 then I played it and found it to be the same tap targeting crap I played in WoW only with a dodge button and fewer skills. It was the exact same problem I hate with the first one (Minus the Dodge button) and at this point I don't care if its open worlds or not.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
*Sigh.*
http://www.massiveonlinegamer.com/previews/1263-guild-wars-2-media-day-wrap-up-part-1
http://www.massiveonlinegamer.com/previews/1266-guild-wars-2-media-day-wrap-up-part-2
Dude, I think he was trolling.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Would be interesting to see if Casey got more hands-on time with SW:TOR if the pendulum of his opinion would swing back again.
Just sayin'.
I don't really care about this pitched interwebz battle over which of the 2 games will be king of the virtual hill. I just want them both to be good games that keep players happy. 2 places to go and have fun. Add TSW to the mix and we have three potential crowd-pleasers. It's all good, they're all different games, and I bet I'm not the only one that'll give each of them a try.
I'll stick with the one that turns out to be the most fun for me. As of now I have no clue which that'll be.
Crazy notion, eh?
Hmm, so it's Snaylor's opinion (an anonymous guy from the MMRPG.com forum) or opinion of PC Gamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, G4, Kotaku, Demonoid, Massively, Penny Arcade and bunch independent blogs. Hmmm, who should i trust ?
You should trust your own opinion.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
He hasn't played the game yet, so he's looking for the opinion of someone who did play the game. Like Casey Schreiner.
While I respect Casey and watch his show every week, it is difficult to take his opinions seriously. He usually praises pretty much everything and badmouths respectable games..only later to praise them again. Hes a common press game critic that knows slightly more about MMORPGs then other people do in the industry. I am not going to disagree with him, but I won't agree with him either.
"Beating" SWTOR would take a game that fits in the same MMO category. People who play games like WoW, Rift,ect are going to be more interested in a game familiar to them then a game that innovates new features that may or may not be hit or miss. The people playing those games favor the "carrot on a stick" approach to gameplay, whereas Guild Wars has always proven not to focus so much on that and Guild Wars 2 looks to be no different in that regard.
I am fairly certain both games will be huge successes and move the MMO genre forward in their own ways. I don't see them as direct competition and feel that both games will attract new players to the MMO genre.
Not to mention that the two titles have vastly different payment plans, so even after the fact it will be hard to tell which one is the true "winner". Pretty much everyone I have talked to is going to get both since Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee.
I think...i think.... i am going to have a large pint of beer with kebabs.
An excellent choice.
Let see, what game will do better, a rather solo oriented game with traditional wow-like concept + single player storyline where you have to pay every month, or a rather group oriented game with new mechanics and graphics where you don't have to pay every month?
It's kinda ironic too.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Thank you. I was just thinking my thoughts out loud just like Casey.
And on topic. Rational people who are not biased or zealous fans of either game would stick to their opinions once a demo or trial is out. It is not logical to forum your opinions on basis of another human being like Miss Casey. Who could be just as wrong as me or anyone else.
Oh man
If she said the opposite all you TOR boys would be using it as a heavy argument in every other thread in here so stop pretending u dont care about this random opinion
This goes to GW2 fans as well
it is still merely an opinion (one that I agree with but thats not the point, really)
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Most of the mainstream gaming website also spoke highly of TOR. Honestly for a game as highly followed as it I was shocked when I only found about 5 negative articals that were more then, "Wah WoW clone" or "Wah I want SWG2" which seem to be were most of the critisism for this game lays.
All I have to say is I was once looking forward to the game, I played it and I did not like it all to much, sorry I don't write for any gaming website.
Also you should come to your own conclutions.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
The Interesting thing is not what he states, as there are advocates and fanboys for both games all over the net. But it is interesting that he has changed his mind. As a huge SWTOR fan in all, he is now praising GW2, that he more or less have been neglected until now.
I for my part is looking forward to his next MMO report (maybe today) where I think he should dive into why he have been converted. Then we can judge if he is to have credability!
(I actual read the first 20 pages of this thread just to see if someone got this angle- then i gave up- i just don't get this numbers discussion that goes on here as important in regard to his statement.)