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BHS Tera Welten interview - Elin censored because of EME/Frogster fears of femenist organizations an
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So, if it's real-life, flesh and blood female children wearing two-piece bikinis out in public, it's A-Okay.
But if it's a clearly fictitious fantasy character who is an adult but of a race that looks younger... it's "disgusting" and "depicting children as sex objects".... even though the race in question are not children.
Interesting.
I still think it says more about you that you see something "disgusting" and "depicting children as sex objects" where nothing disgusting is taking place than it does about the content in question.. But to each their own, right?
Guess I should be glad I'm more open-minded and don't have such hang-ups.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
{self-censoring edit - musings on moderation removed.}
"Do you freak out every time you see a woman wearing tight shorts, or low-cut tops in real life?"
Why do you guys keep retreating to that straw man? Who here said sex is bad?
WSIMike, I am really interested in your thoughts on the reason for panty shots and skimpy armor/gear in video games. While I have no issue with the juvenalization and neotony in asian cartoons and art, I find it rather disingenuous to say that sexual imagery is not intended.
If you're willing to concede that sexual imagery is intended, then I'd like to present that, for some, the combination of sexual art/animation and juvenilized character appearance can be unsettling - not because of any depraved tendencies and evil thoughts harbored deep within that are now being projected out, but because two incongruous themes have been overlayed on the same object.
If you're not willing to concede that sexual imagery is intended then I really would like to know your thoughts on the reason for skimpy armor/gear and panty shots in these video games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I keep checking for new TERA info on mmorpg.com, but since there isn't any I keep seeing this kind of thread.
I can't say that I am firmly on either side of this debate. Government censorship is not being invoked here, it is a company's right to push for what they may see as being decent.
All I can inject is my own anecdotal information -
I am playing TERA right now and after starting no fewer than 15 avatars finally decided on one - with my wife's help. We ended up picking the Ellin.
Why? Because they are the small-non-sexed-up toons.
Unless you are pervy and try to zoom in and get the unnatural angles on the things, you will be hard pressed to find anything "worrisome" about them.
Also -
I don't know about you guys, but the way an action game like this plays (hell, even WoW) is best seen from a good 30 feet above and behind the character. Zooming in too close is going to actually mess up the combat.
If anything, I would be more embarrassed playing a Castanic or a High Elf. Only the human, Ellin and dragon-lady models are not total perve stuff (to each his own).
The game is fun though - even in Korean. It's a blast. Very colorful and strange in that Asian kind of way. GREAT graphics AND performance. The engine is great. Lag is not even an issue from North America.
Someone please make a good MMO.
That's a very good point! If we went solely by the screenshots that developers release for many of these MMOs, one would assume the default view is ShoeCam.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
once again someone misunderstands the whole concept of 'free speech', at least as originally propagated by the US founders. one may speak one's mind in many different formats and mediums. but freedom of speech is not and has never been intended as the freedom to say whatever you want, whenever you want, whereever you want.
thus the argument of the Supreme Court Justices giving the rather well known statement that freedom of speech does not give the right to cry out, "FIRE!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. free speech presupposes a sense of communal and social responsibility to the other human beings you live with in the world.
most people look at free speech arguments and law suits as black and white, us against them issues. but they aren't. all they simply are is the community, civic society determining what it thinks it can reasonably handle, and what it cannot. so there is push and shove, one case wins, another of the same type but slightly different loses, each of these add up to the people deciding over time what they find responsible and what they find irresponsible speech.
and from our history neither a more libertarian pov, nor a more socially conservative pov tend to win more times than the other. instead they see-saw between each other as the community advances and becomes more tolerant of various expressions of speech.
i would rather not have these developers base a decision simply on two groups, but that they considered it at all i believe is a sign of responsibility. one can only hope that decisions like these get made, not out of fear, but rather out of this very same sense of the community 'at large'.
as for seeing sexuality, where none was intended, need i remind everyone of the asian manga preoccupation with young schoolgirls in clearly sexual situations? this is not a judgment on asian manga subculture, but a reminder that there very well may have been that influence on the Elin. its not a far stretch of the imagination to see that these females were created with that influence and therefore were meant to provoke such a response, even if it was an unconscious cultural choice, and one that in asia would not have made anyone turn their head for a moment.
yet our experience of the sexualization of those we consider children (here we need a good definition of what we mean when we say 'child') in the West is very different. again, w/o making any moral judgments on either side its not that far of a stretch to see why Western publishers would be concerned.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Great to hear the game is running smoothly
I'd rather have no scantily clad characters of any age/gender in my games, if I want titillation I don't have to go far to find it. Seeing characters running around with their arse in the air just for the sake of it shows it for the cheap trick it is and puts me off the game. In context (like the whores in AoC) it works but scantily clad just because it makes the game appealing to a certain demographic inevitably alienates some of those outside of it.
I'm not a prude but the notion that sex sells is a truism I'd rather see confined to archeology, we really haven't grown any...
They aren't anything real, not children or adults. They're imaginary characters that the devs intend to look like children. Really doesn't matter what their backstory is, or any sort of justification the devs want to make up. They're intended to look like kids. Some of the armor they wear is intended to look sexy on them. That is enough to qualify as disgusting, yes.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I can never understand how nudity elicits these responses when the very same people probably take their right to bear arms very seriously and kill small animals and such and bigger game with a gun licence during hunting season. Yes shooting up animals and people is not worse than a nude chick. Screwed up if you ask me.
Elin aren't children, read the lore before saying they are children, they are not.
Ok, so after saying this, i could care less about what happens, but im agains't it because i hate dumb censorship, the church should GTFO and stop raping children, but what can you expect about the worst thing that ever happened to humanity?
Im still going to roll an Elin alt just for PK, if the belly is covered or not... who cares.
this is one busy thread. I'm a bit surprised at all the mixed feelings about just one race
Its also disappointing that the devs are going to take the time to censor their own game because of a possible public outcry. Their so much more important things people should concern themselves with rather then waste their breath on a video game. I'm a parent and i understand how some people must feel but on the other hand i do monitor what my child does on the internet 
so tired of big brother trying to look out for our best interest 
Church is not the worst thing that happened to society; throughout history even in non christian societies they had bad things done to its people. Why are people so closed minded? We live in America, one of the greatest countries in the world, and if you don't believe so, guess what, you have the freedom to move. As far as this issue, I have a young daughter and do not like any form of promotion of young girls as sex objects. Yet I love playing mmos. Keep them out, it won't hurt the games if they did.
Somebody has brought this up much much earlier in the discussion which was mostly ignored but as the other user I belive it's quite important. So the company decides to "westernize" the game as to not get a reaction from certain groups etc, rasing the subject of pedophilia. Now let's talk about the USA a bit, because things don't quite add up. Don't belive me? Google beauty pageants for young or little girls and the only country you will see promoting such thing is the good ol U.S. of A. Inevitably you will see very young girls wearing high heels and makeup in suggestive poses.
If this country is so high on protecting the youngsters from predatory pedophile monsters, why go so far as to dive into the virtual world, why not start whith the "real" girls in "real" life who actually are promoting sex at a very unacceptable age. I don't hear about any religious groups or parenting groups going after these weirdos, all you hear about is somebody constantly trying to make a name for themselves for going after video games. And this game in question also will be carrying an M rating as was stated by the devs on their forums:
MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
If parents are trusted with making the deicision for their 4 or 8 year old to compete in a beauty pageant and wear revealing clothing and pose suggestively in front of adults....then they can also be trusted into picking a game for their child as well. No need for a company to police themselves and changing the rules based on geography.
Great point on the kiddie beauty pageants .
This art is very typical of anime and even Korean Manwha and it should not be judged with western terms. However if it is rated M I really cannot see what the problem is and why these people are whining.
Hehe, oh yeah. Exactly my thoughts.
Reactions of some other people really baffle me. I think it's kind of silly to censor them this way for the West.
They might as well do away with all the animalesque looks because, hey ... "THAT'S CLEARLY ANIMAL PORN!"
My brand new bloggity blog.
If humanity survives the meltdown, issues like this will seem unbelievable and roving gangs of men will be doing far worse to women than just look at semi naked pixels. Its sad but its the truth.
Safety and the good times will not last forever.
EQ1 has Ogre porn!
Thank you!
People forget that at one point showing a woman's knees was provocative.
Just because people are naked doesn't mean that there is "sex" or "sexual feelings" involved.
I'm very much against using images of children for sexual purposes.
But I just don't find these offensive. If anthing I find them tacky.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Here's an interesting little blurb on cencorship in movies and other things.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3797-Hollywood-History-101-Supplemental-The-Code
one can argue that it mirrors what game developes and artists are facing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have to say that I think the censorship is wrong. It implies that NA people are pedophiles and cannot look at such images without thinking lustfully. Do people think that if there are skimpy outfits on a race that appears like children, that it will promote child abuse? If that's the case then shooting people in a videogame will cause people to start going postal all the time. I have yet to see anybody wandering around with a sword looking for 10 rats to kill so they can finally go to sleep knowing their daily quest is complete.
And maybe there are people out there that dream of being a young child again, and would like to have an avatar like that to represent themselves. Is that any different then the pimply faced 80lb weakling playing the gigantic musclebound slayer? Or what about the person playing an undead?
People don't have to play a toon because they lust for it. That would imply that all males playing male characters are gay, and all males playing female characters are heterosexual. And where does that leave furries?
Censorship is nothing more then the powers at be trying to limit free thinking.
Censoring a video game will not change that, nor is it protecting anyone. If it would, then we should ban any music, tv shows, photo's, books, etc that display anything that is against our utopian perspective. Sports illustrated swimsuit? BANNED - some of those women are in a relationship, and having sex with anyone other then your partner is not socially acceptable. Cosmo magazine? BANNED - they talk about how to know your man is cheating, but in our utopia - people don't cheat. We can't let them think like that! Victoria's Secret? - BANNED! Some of those outfits might fit on a teenager, we can't have that sick stuff happening! Now everyone gather around and hold hands, so that we can sings songs about love and happiness. Wait a second! That love stuff might be misinterpreted as being sexual, so we better ban that too!
I don't want to promote child pornography in any way, but I just don't find the images or outfits to be like that. I know there are alot of sick people out there that hurt children, and I don't want to do anything that might promote that either. I just don't think censorship is any sort of answer.
That being said, changing the outfits to suit a different demographic is just good business sense.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
Personally i really liked the way TERA was going and had planned. Now after looking into this little bit and their choice in censoring the elin race has turned me off of the game. My reasons why.
1. Any gaming company who makes the choice of censoring their game because of other organizations who might have a problem with a VIDEO GAME doesnt deserve my money.
2. I dont understand how femenists or the churches could be upset with a video game that has absolutely no affect on them. How is blood and guts in tons of other games different than nudity/semi-nudity in a video game. So basically you can watch someone in movies or video games get shot in the throat or face and blood spew all over, but as long as they have close on its ok.
3. Elin are not little girls, just because the way they look or their height is not an indication of age. Thats like saying a midget no matter how old, are children just because they're short or look like children.
Anyone who has a problem with the way the game is should not play it, end of story. The reason why the MMORPG industry is starting to become shyt is the simple fact that they change their game for other people.
The problem is gaming companies like EME is that they dont care about their game or the MMORPG genre, they just want to try and make everyone happy and get as many people to buy their game as possible. I wish people who open their eyes a bit.
I think it's silly to go censoring game characters in modern MMOs particularly to avoid Feminazis and Churches from jumping on you. People are horribly stupid - the ones who censored it, feminists who would take this too far, and anyone religion who would bring up this fact as a negative. A pox on them I say.
But, I also hate Fanservice in games. It gets absolutely ridiculous. Every female character wears high heels and skimpy clothes in some games and it's utterly retarded. "Oh but it looks nice~!" I see people reply, well F*** YOU.
I think it's stupid to have designed a 12 year old looking character to a game and get them to show content deemed 'inappropriate'. I think only someone utterly retarded would do that.
If you want to include adult content of any level, at least make it tasteful.
This is freaking hilarious.