Rift is still doing relatively well only for one reason, people are waiting for new games. It will be in for hard times in near future.
Maybe, but it also depends on what Trion have up their sleeve. An expansion could fix the issues and let the gqame at least keep it's current playerbase.
But if they just sit on their butts doing nothing then you are right.
If I would be Trion I would try to add in a lot before TOR, TSW and GW2 releases.
And, no. No way it have a million players now.
They will have 3 more updates before the end of the year. They are shooting for about one major update a month to a month and a half. A million players? It's possible. We just don't know on that front.
Considering you make the comment of sitting on their butts, shows that you have no idea what's going in the game... at all.
They are on update 1.4 now and they are in the 5th month. 1.5 drops end of next month.
The content might not be something you like, but sitting on their butts? They are not.
"We are providing a continual service to our customers. They are paying a subscription and we have to deliver" Hal Hanlin VP Trion - Riftjunkies podcast Episode 12.
That's their philosophy and anyone who's actually looked at the game with an unbiased mind can see that. It's a good thing for the MMO genre, whether you like the game or not.
Myself, 2 person friends and about 8 others from a Wow guild came to Rifts. All bought multi-month subs so many, including myself still have active subs ...
... and NONE of us play Rifts anymore. All quit within 1.5 months of release.
So chock us up in the stats ... but the stats lie as to who actually 'plays' Rifts.
This is the real story.
They can attract people to try with the hype, the free trials all the discounting of the product.
Then they leave.
You attract some % back by offering free play.
Then they leave again.
In WOW, people came back after new content was released and stayed for years. The game kept growing for 3 years and then they started with the expansions.
If you can't retain the guilds and groups of active mmo players in your mmo you are going to fail becasue regular players are what drive the cool and provide the bedrock of your virtual world.
In WOW, people came back after new content was released and stayed for years. The game kept growing for 3 years and then they started with the expansions.
they might announce lot of stuff guys but i realized something,having world rift pvp disabled is a major blow they need this back online!either in a seperate server or whatever cause a lot of player are in there because of that and lot of other are planning to go in rift because of world rift pvp
Most of the credible stuff that I read had 750k copies sold that first month,(thought there was a Trion executive statement around that time that they did between 700k and 800k) with over 1 million account created. Would not surprise me if an additional 250k people picked up and tried the game anytime in the last 5.5 months.
Retention though is a different story, most estimates I've seen put it somewhere between 300-400k, but until Trion says for sure, anything anyone says is a guess. Somehow I just cant believe they have more than 500k going right now, and the 300k to 400k sounds like it might be reasonable accurate. Which honestly isnt a bad showing for Rift. Seems like Trion did pretty well. (even if I'm not a fan, have to admit they did okay)
They just said they have over 1 million users.
To me a "user" isnt someone who cancelled his account.
What we dont know is if trion counts Active trials.
If they do then the number is lower, not much but it is.
Also THey had 2 million "accounts" like two months ago. So it would make no sense in bringing up 1 million if they werent active.
All they said is 1 million customers. Why wouldn't they say active subscribers? It's all marketing, they haven't got 1 million active subscribers.
PR always pulls this kind of crap with numbers. They'll take the best numbers they can find, because ultimately, that's all people really are looking at. They then dress them up with some fancy word-play to give the impression - without actually lying - that the game is more successful than it is.
SE used to say they had over 500,000 active players in FFXI. They said that for a while, and it was quite impressive, especially for a game that was going on 7 years in service. Once that number started dropping, however, they then put emphasis on "2 million active characters". Now, on first glance, two million active characters sounds really impressive, even better than the "over 500,000" number. That is, until you stop to think that many players have at least 2 alts/mules. Some as many as 4, in addition to their main character.
Considering a huge number of those "active characters" aren't "actively played", suddenly that 2 million isn't so impressive, is it? There were over 2 million characters, but under 500,000 active players. So, while their PR might seem to indicate the opposite, SE was actually *losing* players in FFXI - which wouldn't look good for the game- which is why they switched over to using the 2 million figure. Not long after the 2 million characters deal, they actually did their first server merge.
This is why I always find any such announcement, from any developer, to be dubious unless the information, coming directly from the company (not a second or third-hand source) states the number in terms of "active and paying subscribers". Anything else is meaningless number fudging and misleading word-play.
Saying "2 million customers" is basically just saying "we've sold 2 million copies of Rift". It says nothing about the number of people actively paying a sub and playing the game.
An area where you'll see PR having a field day with this kind of thing is in the F2P scene...
F2P MMO folks *love* playing the numbers game. They *love* to boast about having "over 5 million active accounts!". The thing they never point out, though, is that in a F2P game, *every* account is an active account. Because there's no subscription fee associated with it, it never has to be "activated" or "canceled". I have an account to Allods, for example. I haven't touched that game in well over a year, yet my account is still considered "active". What you'll never see them state is how many people are currently actively logging in and playing the game with some regularity. They don't because those numbers don't look nearly as impressive. This also puts the whole statement that "the majority of accounts never pay a dime". Well, yeah... when you're including accounts that aren't being actively played *at all*, that's easy to say... it's also not nearly as impressive.
Again... When it comes to stuff like that, one should always pay close attention to what the numbers are for.
Customers doesn't necessarily mean "active subscribed players".
As for being the 2nd largest MMO in the west... Well, that's a dubious claim to make, again, depending on what the actual numbers are (and assuming Trion knows what their competitors' numbers really are to make the comparison, something I highly doubt). Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster and underpopulated, that it's really not that great an accomplishment, in my opinion. The bar isn't exactly set very high, if you know what I mean.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
As for being the 2nd largest MMO in the west... Well, that's a dubious claim to make, again, depending on what the actual numbers are (and assuming Trion knows what their competitors' numbers really are to make the comparison, something I highly doubt). Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster and underpopulated, that it's really not that great an accomplishment, in my opinion. The bar isn't exactly set very high, if you know what I mean.
Considering the fact that it is beating Sony, EA and other companies that poured millions into the MMO genre, it is quite an accomplishment actually.
This shows that even MMO follows the fundamental rule in games.
'A fun game will sell'
Whether it is personally fun for you or not is irrelevant. Millions thought it would be fun and tried it out.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Haters will always hate regardless of the facts. Personally I love the game and there are tons of people playing it from my perspective. I never have an issue finding people to group with to complete content.
To all those that hate Rift, go find something to do. Bagging on a game you don't play is a complete waste of your time.
As for being the 2nd largest MMO in the west... Well, that's a dubious claim to make, again, depending on what the actual numbers are (and assuming Trion knows what their competitors' numbers really are to make the comparison, something I highly doubt). Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster and underpopulated, that it's really not that great an accomplishment, in my opinion. The bar isn't exactly set very high, if you know what I mean.
Considering the fact that it is beating Sony, EA and other companies that poured millions into the MMO genre, it is quite an accomplishment actually.
This shows that even MMO follows the fundamental rule in games.
'A fun game will sell'
Whether it is personally fun for you or not is irrelevant. Millions thought it would be fun and tried it out.
And...?
None of what you just said refutes nor even addresses anything I said in that paragraph, nor in the rest of my post.
Does Trion have access to every other Western MMO developers actual active player numbers to make that kind of statement? Can you provide a single, valid and viable source showing that they do?
Further, at no point do I bring my personal opinion of the game, or "whether it's personally fun for me" into it. You just plucked that out of thin air, and then responded to it as though I had, in your last couple sentences. That, sir, is called a strawman, and is not a valid form of discussion/debate.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I hope you were only speaking for yourself when you said 'standards of games have not been set so high'.
Yes we had some very bad launch and over promised and under delieverd titles like Vanguard, AOC and WAR but at the same time we had some quality launches too like LOTRO. After a very long time RIFT has infact set standards for a perfect launch and showed MMO industry that if a game is well supported and get regular content updated it will be a successful game. So i would say it is a start and time to follow standards set by Trion.
I hope you were only speaking for yourself when you said 'standards of games have not been set so high'.
Yes we had some very bad launch and over promised and under delieverd titles like Vanguard, AOC and WAR but at the same time we had some quality launches too like LOTRO. After a very long time RIFT has infact set standards for a perfect launch and showed MMO industry that if a game is well supported and get regular content updated it will be a successful game. So i would say it is a start and time to follow standards set by Trion.
So, you start out trying to refute my point, only to end up helping it.
Well done!
No, I'm not "speaking for myself". I'm speaking in terms of the overall level of success for most of the Western MMOs to come outl; their overall popularity, their ability to earn and keep a strong population, and their overall "hype-versus-reality" ratio.
You made a statement about "quality launches". Well, if we're only talking launches, then you are setting the bar rather low. Several games had "strong" launches, in terms of boxes sold, overall feedback, etc. Hell, WAR got rave reviews at first, as did AoC.
But how about longevity? How about "keeping power" in terms of holding on to subscribers past the first month and for the long term, once the novelty and newness wears off? Numbers drop off rather sharply after that.
You mention 1 game, LoTRO, that went on to do pretty well. And it did. It was quite healthy for a time. Then it, too, hit a lull and started slowing down in terms of subs. And where is it now? Turbine went hybrid/f2p with it.
And, really... what other example can you give, besides LoTRO or Rift, that maintained some form of steady and healthy actively paying playerbase after their first month and didn't drop off drastically? Some even went offline within their first year. Answer that honestly, without spinning or twisting around the numbers to support your premise.
I won't hold my breath, because at the end of the day, you've only helped make my point.
Other than LoTRO, the Western MMO scene has been less than impressive. Rift's launch, and its ongoing success are so widely praised because it's such a rare thing to see in the MMO scene. If strong launches and healthy player bases were the norm in the Western MMO scene, then Rift's situation wouldn't have been such a big deal or raised as many eyebrows. Common consensus hasn't exactly been positive for the Western MMO scene for a while now.
So, yes... Compared to the Western MMO scene overall, the bar was set pretty low for Rift - or any upcoming MMO for that matter - to beat.
Thank you again for helping to make my point.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Coming from a website called Rift Junkies is soooo not gonna be biased.
Like Blizzard with their claim they are counting every account possible, be it trials, inactives... whatever they can count to bolster their number. Like many I pre-ordered, have a Trion account, played Beta, but haven't logged in one day since launch. If they really have one million "active" customers then they wouldn't have the server pop issues a couple of months ago.
Like others said here wait till ToR releases then count your numbers. A large chunk are playing Rift because their bored to death of WoW and are just killing time till ToR or GW2 and even The Secret World.
As for being the 2nd largest MMO in the west... Well, that's a dubious claim to make, again, depending on what the actual numbers are (and assuming Trion knows what their competitors' numbers really are to make the comparison, something I highly doubt). Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster and underpopulated, that it's really not that great an accomplishment, in my opinion. The bar isn't exactly set very high, if you know what I mean.
Considering the fact that it is beating Sony, EA and other companies that poured millions into the MMO genre, it is quite an accomplishment actually.
This shows that even MMO follows the fundamental rule in games.
'A fun game will sell'
Whether it is personally fun for you or not is irrelevant. Millions thought it would be fun and tried it out.
And...?
None of what you just said refutes nor even addresses anything I said in that paragraph, nor in the rest of my post.
Does Trion have access to every other Western MMO developers actual active player numbers to make that kind of statement? Can you provide a single, valid and viable source showing that they do?
Further, at no point do I bring my personal opinion of the game, or "whether it's personally fun for me" into it. You just plucked that out of thin air, and then responded to it as though I had, in your last couple sentences. That, sir, is called a strawman, and is not a valid form of discussion/debate.
What the....
Lets logically follow this shall we and see how far down the rabbit hole this quote will go!
1. I refute your claim that 'really not that great an accomplishment /The bar isn't exactly set very high' by mentioning that while EA / Sony has poured millions into the MMO genre, Rift has/had 1 Million sales and is now 2nd largest MMO in the west.
2. Am I correct in saying that you didn't say 'Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster' I mean... you know.. I quoted the post you made so I assume you said it? But hey, don't let me stop you from backtracking!
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I hope you were only speaking for yourself when you said 'standards of games have not been set so high'.
Yes we had some very bad launch and over promised and under delieverd titles like Vanguard, AOC and WAR but at the same time we had some quality launches too like LOTRO. After a very long time RIFT has infact set standards for a perfect launch and showed MMO industry that if a game is well supported and get regular content updated it will be a successful game. So i would say it is a start and time to follow standards set by Trion.
So, you start out trying to refute my point, only to end up helping it.
Well done!
No, I'm not "speaking for myself". I'm speaking in terms of the overall level of success for most of the Western MMOs to come outl; their overall popularity, their ability to earn and keep a strong population, and their overall "hype-versus-reality" ratio.
You made a statement about "quality launches". Well, if we're talking launches, then you are setting the bar rather low. Several games had "strong" launches, in terms of boxes sold, overall feedback, etc. Hell, WAR got rave reviews at first, as did AoC.
But how about longevity? How about "keeping power" in terms of holding on to subscribers past the first month and for the long term, once the novelty and newness wears off? Numbers drop off rather sharply after that.
You mention 1 game, LoTRO, that went on to do pretty well. And it did. It was quite healthy for a time. Then it, too, hit a lull and started slowing down in terms of subs. And where is it now? Turbine went hybrid/f2p with it.
And, really... what other example can you give, besides LoTRO or Rift, that maintained some form of steady and healthy actively paying playerbase after their first month and didn't drop off drastically? Some even went offline within their first year. Answer that honestly, without spinning or twisting around the numbers to support your premise.
I won't hold my breath, because at the end of the day, you've only helped make my point.
Other than LoTRO, the Western MMO scene has been less than impressive. Rift's launch, and its ongoing success are so widely praised because it's such a rare thing to see in the MMO scene. If strong launches and healthy player bases were the norm in the Western MMO scene, then Rift's situation wouldn't have been such a big deal or raised as many eyebrows. Common consensus hasn't exactly been positive for the Western MMO scene for a while now.
So, yes... Compared to the Western MMO scene overall, the bar was set pretty low for Rift - or any upcoming MMO for that matter - to beat.
Thank you again for helping to make my point.
Who said i was trying to refute your point? also are you always high on caffine when you post? you need to relax a bit every once in a while.
Anyways, my point was that there has been both good and bad launches but that doesn't mean the bar has been set very low. Every now and then MMOS release which set a good standard for MMOS on how to launch and support a MMO. Blizzard did it so did Turbine and now Trion once again proved that a well supported game is bound to be a success. As far as longevity is concerned all these MMOS are up and running aren't they? as long as companies are making enough money to keep the servers going it is a success.
And what MMOS you are talking about that went offline in their first year? tabula rasa? matrix online? which bring me back to my original point. If a game is not well supported by company it is goign to be a failure.
God you have got to love that Trion pr department taking a queue from the Blizzard pr department. First with "We're not in Azertoh" and second with "Join our Horde". Now we have passed 1.5 million customers.
Customers = purchased games that had a sub associated with them. Does this mean 1.5million people re subbed/ probably not...if even 45% of them did it makes Rifts pretty damn big for a game with 2 months worth of hype.
They are giving the game away for like 4.99$. Is is that hard to believe they probably sold a hell of a lot? If Bioware was smart they would do the same after the shininess of SWToR wears off. Blizzard smartest move was lowering it's game price.
Coming from a website called Rift Junkies is soooo not gonna be biased.
Like Blizzard with their claim they are counting every account possible, be it trials, inactives... whatever they can count to bolster their number. Like many I pre-ordered, have a Trion account, played Beta, but haven't logged in one day since launch. If they really have one million "active" customers then they wouldn't have the server pop issues a couple of months ago.
Like others said here wait till ToR releases then count your numbers. A large chunk are playing Rift because their bored to death of WoW and are just killing time till ToR or GW2 and even The Secret World.
SWTOR has it's IP. That's ALL that's generating its hype. As for Rift Junkies being biased, you need to listen to their latest podcast where they talk about R8 PvP gear being better than PvE gear and then come back. But I'll give you that they are a fan site devoted to covering Rift. Thank God for that too because with Massively all up on GW2 nuts 24/7 and the trolls here, getting sensible debate and non-trolling discussions about Rift and Trion is hard to come by.
Also, they didn't come up with that statement or numbers. Trion said it during their presentation at Gamescom. I mean they clearly state that in the article, which is about 500 words if you would of bothered to read it.
As for being the 2nd largest MMO in the west... Well, that's a dubious claim to make, again, depending on what the actual numbers are (and assuming Trion knows what their competitors' numbers really are to make the comparison, something I highly doubt). Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster and underpopulated, that it's really not that great an accomplishment, in my opinion. The bar isn't exactly set very high, if you know what I mean.
If it's so dubious or incorrect, then why is no other MMO company challenging Trion on that claim. I mean it's not like they said it in a podcast or some comment on a thread. The kind of things Marc Jacobs loved to do at the beginning of WAR.
They made an announcement at one of the biggest game conventions in the world, in front of tons of press and fans/gamers.
So yeah, where's the other companies saying BS we're #2?
Actually i was impressed by the beta the quality and production was up till now the best Beta I've tested,but here comes the bad news after beta 5 i could just not see myself playing long term,for one the Rift system just did not give it that cutting edge needed to re-spark the genre and i found the lore and general enviroment very shallow regarding getting the player involved and interested in the base story and subsequent quest chains.
I expect it has changed but i will predict Rift will go F2P/hybrid in 2012 TO compete with SWTOR/TSW etc..as AOC has effectively given Funcom a hell of a boost,no doubt short term but today profit is everything a perfect MO utopia is still hopefully out there i'm looking at GW2 for that hopefully even though it will prob be my 2nd MO as it's B2P
"We are on the verge of selling our 1 millionth unit of Rift," he said in a phone interview. He stressed that the figure represents units sold to consumers, not shipped to retailers.
1 million unit sales huh? Too bad 900,000 of them are defiant. Once again a mmo fails to address player balance which has lead to a huge gap in player and gear balance. Is it really that hard to give an exp bonus or something that encorages balance? At least warhammer tried even though it was far to late. The lack of balance has made playing a chore for my guardian main and a unchallenging borefest for my defiant alt.
"We are on the verge of selling our 1 millionth unit of Rift," he said in a phone interview. He stressed that the figure represents units sold to consumers, not shipped to retailers.
he explained (RIFT) has over one million customers
reading between the lines: customers = units sold
Im happy for RIFT or any successful mmo
but it was the Ops choice to title this thread 1 million users
-- when his link used the word customer
Age of Conan used similar gray wording saying over 1 million shipped
and people would misinterpret that for units sold
I'm no RIFT hater but i dont like when people imply that a game has XX users and their source never said that
If customers equals units sold then what is there to be read between the lines? Wouldn't they, by your own words, be the same thing and therefore NOT be "gray wording"?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I think he is pointing out that while customers = Units sold, just that it is being wrongly inferred that units sold doesn't equate to users or subscribers.
I bought Rift, thus I am a customer. But as of end of this month I will no longer be an user.
These kind of discussions fascinate me. It seems that a large segment analyzes the wording to death. They said subscribers... no they should have said active players, no they should have said..... Seems to me that they mean active accounts. I could be wrong and this is some nefarious plot. But it seems to pass the common sense test.
Another large segment of the community strongly disagrees about the number 1 million itself. Once again, they could be saying this as some part of that nefarious plot, but I don't think so. It isn't in their best interest to lie about something like that. On the surface thats not true, because the argument will be that its all marketing. But if you look deeper, they would run a great risk in having it come to light that they openly lied about something like that and risk a backlash. I admit that its a rounded number, so it could be 953,000 or some such number so I guess the bean counters are technically right, its not 1 million.
Finally there is the 'its not number 2' crowd. May be right, may be wrong. Who knows. I would say its a 50/50 chance that its just boasting on the part of Trion because I don't know if they have accurate counts of their competitors numbers to make a difinitve satatement like that.
The bottom line is that Rift is doing pretty good right now. I didn't really care for it and stopped playing it a short month after starting. But like any other successful MMO which follows the EQ/WoW model. Success is unnacceptible. It must be torn down at the alter of the doom crowd. Doom on you...Doom on you....Doom on you!
Comments
They will have 3 more updates before the end of the year. They are shooting for about one major update a month to a month and a half. A million players? It's possible. We just don't know on that front.
Considering you make the comment of sitting on their butts, shows that you have no idea what's going in the game... at all.
They are on update 1.4 now and they are in the 5th month. 1.5 drops end of next month.
The content might not be something you like, but sitting on their butts? They are not.
"We are providing a continual service to our customers. They are paying a subscription and we have to deliver" Hal Hanlin VP Trion - Riftjunkies podcast Episode 12.
That's their philosophy and anyone who's actually looked at the game with an unbiased mind can see that. It's a good thing for the MMO genre, whether you like the game or not.
Awesome job catchin that info btw man:)
It's been great seeing you around posting in sites and presenting those nasty inconvenient facts since Beta.
This is the real story.
They can attract people to try with the hype, the free trials all the discounting of the product.
Then they leave.
You attract some % back by offering free play.
Then they leave again.
In WOW, people came back after new content was released and stayed for years. The game kept growing for 3 years and then they started with the expansions.
If you can't retain the guilds and groups of active mmo players in your mmo you are going to fail becasue regular players are what drive the cool and provide the bedrock of your virtual world.
Caveat Emptor
And then they added the cross server LFG tool lol
Because they had too few numbers - huh?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4407229/Returning-player.html#4407229
they might announce lot of stuff guys but i realized something,having world rift pvp disabled is a major blow they need this back online!either in a seperate server or whatever cause a lot of player are in there because of that and lot of other are planning to go in rift because of world rift pvp
PR always pulls this kind of crap with numbers. They'll take the best numbers they can find, because ultimately, that's all people really are looking at. They then dress them up with some fancy word-play to give the impression - without actually lying - that the game is more successful than it is.
SE used to say they had over 500,000 active players in FFXI. They said that for a while, and it was quite impressive, especially for a game that was going on 7 years in service. Once that number started dropping, however, they then put emphasis on "2 million active characters". Now, on first glance, two million active characters sounds really impressive, even better than the "over 500,000" number. That is, until you stop to think that many players have at least 2 alts/mules. Some as many as 4, in addition to their main character.
Considering a huge number of those "active characters" aren't "actively played", suddenly that 2 million isn't so impressive, is it? There were over 2 million characters, but under 500,000 active players. So, while their PR might seem to indicate the opposite, SE was actually *losing* players in FFXI - which wouldn't look good for the game- which is why they switched over to using the 2 million figure. Not long after the 2 million characters deal, they actually did their first server merge.
This is why I always find any such announcement, from any developer, to be dubious unless the information, coming directly from the company (not a second or third-hand source) states the number in terms of "active and paying subscribers". Anything else is meaningless number fudging and misleading word-play.
Saying "2 million customers" is basically just saying "we've sold 2 million copies of Rift". It says nothing about the number of people actively paying a sub and playing the game.
An area where you'll see PR having a field day with this kind of thing is in the F2P scene...
F2P MMO folks *love* playing the numbers game. They *love* to boast about having "over 5 million active accounts!". The thing they never point out, though, is that in a F2P game, *every* account is an active account. Because there's no subscription fee associated with it, it never has to be "activated" or "canceled". I have an account to Allods, for example. I haven't touched that game in well over a year, yet my account is still considered "active". What you'll never see them state is how many people are currently actively logging in and playing the game with some regularity. They don't because those numbers don't look nearly as impressive. This also puts the whole statement that "the majority of accounts never pay a dime". Well, yeah... when you're including accounts that aren't being actively played *at all*, that's easy to say... it's also not nearly as impressive.
Again... When it comes to stuff like that, one should always pay close attention to what the numbers are for.
Customers doesn't necessarily mean "active subscribed players".
As for being the 2nd largest MMO in the west... Well, that's a dubious claim to make, again, depending on what the actual numbers are (and assuming Trion knows what their competitors' numbers really are to make the comparison, something I highly doubt). Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster and underpopulated, that it's really not that great an accomplishment, in my opinion. The bar isn't exactly set very high, if you know what I mean.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Considering the fact that it is beating Sony, EA and other companies that poured millions into the MMO genre, it is quite an accomplishment actually.
This shows that even MMO follows the fundamental rule in games.
'A fun game will sell'
Whether it is personally fun for you or not is irrelevant. Millions thought it would be fun and tried it out.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Haters will always hate regardless of the facts. Personally I love the game and there are tons of people playing it from my perspective. I never have an issue finding people to group with to complete content.
To all those that hate Rift, go find something to do. Bagging on a game you don't play is a complete waste of your time.
And...?
None of what you just said refutes nor even addresses anything I said in that paragraph, nor in the rest of my post.
Does Trion have access to every other Western MMO developers actual active player numbers to make that kind of statement? Can you provide a single, valid and viable source showing that they do?
Further, at no point do I bring my personal opinion of the game, or "whether it's personally fun for me" into it. You just plucked that out of thin air, and then responded to it as though I had, in your last couple sentences. That, sir, is called a strawman, and is not a valid form of discussion/debate.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
@Wsimike
I hope you were only speaking for yourself when you said 'standards of games have not been set so high'.
Yes we had some very bad launch and over promised and under delieverd titles like Vanguard, AOC and WAR but at the same time we had some quality launches too like LOTRO. After a very long time RIFT has infact set standards for a perfect launch and showed MMO industry that if a game is well supported and get regular content updated it will be a successful game. So i would say it is a start and time to follow standards set by Trion.
So, you start out trying to refute my point, only to end up helping it.
Well done!
No, I'm not "speaking for myself". I'm speaking in terms of the overall level of success for most of the Western MMOs to come outl; their overall popularity, their ability to earn and keep a strong population, and their overall "hype-versus-reality" ratio.
You made a statement about "quality launches". Well, if we're only talking launches, then you are setting the bar rather low. Several games had "strong" launches, in terms of boxes sold, overall feedback, etc. Hell, WAR got rave reviews at first, as did AoC.
But how about longevity? How about "keeping power" in terms of holding on to subscribers past the first month and for the long term, once the novelty and newness wears off? Numbers drop off rather sharply after that.
You mention 1 game, LoTRO, that went on to do pretty well. And it did. It was quite healthy for a time. Then it, too, hit a lull and started slowing down in terms of subs. And where is it now? Turbine went hybrid/f2p with it.
And, really... what other example can you give, besides LoTRO or Rift, that maintained some form of steady and healthy actively paying playerbase after their first month and didn't drop off drastically? Some even went offline within their first year. Answer that honestly, without spinning or twisting around the numbers to support your premise.
I won't hold my breath, because at the end of the day, you've only helped make my point.
Other than LoTRO, the Western MMO scene has been less than impressive. Rift's launch, and its ongoing success are so widely praised because it's such a rare thing to see in the MMO scene. If strong launches and healthy player bases were the norm in the Western MMO scene, then Rift's situation wouldn't have been such a big deal or raised as many eyebrows. Common consensus hasn't exactly been positive for the Western MMO scene for a while now.
So, yes... Compared to the Western MMO scene overall, the bar was set pretty low for Rift - or any upcoming MMO for that matter - to beat.
Thank you again for helping to make my point.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Coming from a website called Rift Junkies is soooo not gonna be biased.
Like Blizzard with their claim they are counting every account possible, be it trials, inactives... whatever they can count to bolster their number. Like many I pre-ordered, have a Trion account, played Beta, but haven't logged in one day since launch. If they really have one million "active" customers then they wouldn't have the server pop issues a couple of months ago.
Like others said here wait till ToR releases then count your numbers. A large chunk are playing Rift because their bored to death of WoW and are just killing time till ToR or GW2 and even The Secret World.
What the....
Lets logically follow this shall we and see how far down the rabbit hole this quote will go!
1. I refute your claim that 'really not that great an accomplishment /The bar isn't exactly set very high' by mentioning that while EA / Sony has poured millions into the MMO genre, Rift has/had 1 Million sales and is now 2nd largest MMO in the west.
2. Am I correct in saying that you didn't say 'Second, so many Western MMOs are so lackluster' I mean... you know.. I quoted the post you made so I assume you said it? But hey, don't let me stop you from backtracking!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Who said i was trying to refute your point? also are you always high on caffine when you post? you need to relax a bit every once in a while.
Anyways, my point was that there has been both good and bad launches but that doesn't mean the bar has been set very low. Every now and then MMOS release which set a good standard for MMOS on how to launch and support a MMO. Blizzard did it so did Turbine and now Trion once again proved that a well supported game is bound to be a success. As far as longevity is concerned all these MMOS are up and running aren't they? as long as companies are making enough money to keep the servers going it is a success.
And what MMOS you are talking about that went offline in their first year? tabula rasa? matrix online? which bring me back to my original point. If a game is not well supported by company it is goign to be a failure.
God you have got to love that Trion pr department taking a queue from the Blizzard pr department. First with "We're not in Azertoh" and second with "Join our Horde". Now we have passed 1.5 million customers.
Customers = purchased games that had a sub associated with them. Does this mean 1.5million people re subbed/ probably not...if even 45% of them did it makes Rifts pretty damn big for a game with 2 months worth of hype.
They are giving the game away for like 4.99$. Is is that hard to believe they probably sold a hell of a lot? If Bioware was smart they would do the same after the shininess of SWToR wears off. Blizzard smartest move was lowering it's game price.
SWTOR has it's IP. That's ALL that's generating its hype. As for Rift Junkies being biased, you need to listen to their latest podcast where they talk about R8 PvP gear being better than PvE gear and then come back. But I'll give you that they are a fan site devoted to covering Rift. Thank God for that too because with Massively all up on GW2 nuts 24/7 and the trolls here, getting sensible debate and non-trolling discussions about Rift and Trion is hard to come by.
Also, they didn't come up with that statement or numbers. Trion said it during their presentation at Gamescom. I mean they clearly state that in the article, which is about 500 words if you would of bothered to read it.
If it's so dubious or incorrect, then why is no other MMO company challenging Trion on that claim. I mean it's not like they said it in a podcast or some comment on a thread. The kind of things Marc Jacobs loved to do at the beginning of WAR.
They made an announcement at one of the biggest game conventions in the world, in front of tons of press and fans/gamers.
So yeah, where's the other companies saying BS we're #2?
I just cancelled my sub, so thats 999,999 now :P
The game held my interest for a good 4 months at least, they need to radically improve the game to bring me back though.
Actually i was impressed by the beta the quality and production was up till now the best Beta I've tested,but here comes the bad news after beta 5 i could just not see myself playing long term,for one the Rift system just did not give it that cutting edge needed to re-spark the genre and i found the lore and general enviroment very shallow regarding getting the player involved and interested in the base story and subsequent quest chains.
I expect it has changed but i will predict Rift will go F2P/hybrid in 2012 TO compete with SWTOR/TSW etc..as AOC has effectively given Funcom a hell of a boost,no doubt short term but today profit is everything a perfect MO utopia is still hopefully out there i'm looking at GW2 for that hopefully even though it will prob be my 2nd MO as it's B2P
and I gave you my link - you either overlooked it or didnt care
from David Reid, June 2011
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35044/Interview_Trions_Debut_Rift_Closes_In_On_1M_SellThrough.php
"We are on the verge of selling our 1 millionth unit of Rift," he said in a phone interview. He stressed that the figure represents units sold to consumers, not shipped to retailers.
the august quote
http://www.riftjunkies.com/2011/08/16/gdc-rift-2nd-mmo-in-the-west-over-1m-customers/
he explained (RIFT) has over one million customers
reading between the lines: customers = units sold
Im happy for RIFT or any successful mmo
but it was the Ops choice to title this thread 1 million users
-- when his link used the word customer
Age of Conan used similar gray wording saying over 1 million shipped
and people would misinterpret that for units sold
I'm no RIFT hater but i dont like when people imply that a game has XX users and their source never said that
EQ2 fan sites
Love how you parse language, but as I posted before in this thread and shall do so again now -
"Rift now has more than 1 million paid users."
That's from FORBES.
Here's the direct link for you. http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2011/08/11/trion-worlds-takes-up-free-to-play-gaming-model/
It's the last line in the second paragraph.
Now go troll another forum.
If customers equals units sold then what is there to be read between the lines? Wouldn't they, by your own words, be the same thing and therefore NOT be "gray wording"?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I think he is pointing out that while customers = Units sold, just that it is being wrongly inferred that units sold doesn't equate to users or subscribers.
I bought Rift, thus I am a customer. But as of end of this month I will no longer be an user.
These kind of discussions fascinate me. It seems that a large segment analyzes the wording to death. They said subscribers... no they should have said active players, no they should have said..... Seems to me that they mean active accounts. I could be wrong and this is some nefarious plot. But it seems to pass the common sense test.
Another large segment of the community strongly disagrees about the number 1 million itself. Once again, they could be saying this as some part of that nefarious plot, but I don't think so. It isn't in their best interest to lie about something like that. On the surface thats not true, because the argument will be that its all marketing. But if you look deeper, they would run a great risk in having it come to light that they openly lied about something like that and risk a backlash. I admit that its a rounded number, so it could be 953,000 or some such number so I guess the bean counters are technically right, its not 1 million.
Finally there is the 'its not number 2' crowd. May be right, may be wrong. Who knows. I would say its a 50/50 chance that its just boasting on the part of Trion because I don't know if they have accurate counts of their competitors numbers to make a difinitve satatement like that.
The bottom line is that Rift is doing pretty good right now. I didn't really care for it and stopped playing it a short month after starting. But like any other successful MMO which follows the EQ/WoW model. Success is unnacceptible. It must be torn down at the alter of the doom crowd. Doom on you...Doom on you....Doom on you!
I self identify as a monkey.