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Can we speculate on Endgaming please?
ipeka
Member Posts: 222
I read this line from "everything we know about GW2" thread and kinda ' concerned' regarding gw's endgaming . And NO i am not flaming Gw2 , i just would like a POV from old GWs players or someone who knows stuffs.
Everything We Know about GW2
I dont really quite get the " anti grinding raid" . Is it going to be only a once-a-week run like WoW ? no srsly... i am dying here....We cant get 'better' gear from raid or heroic dungeon ? so how do we distinguished between serious players and casual then ? Only cosmetic ??
NO more dynamic events specifically for maxed level ? then that means no dailly quest ? Or does ''elite content' meant to be our daily quest ?
When we do a lower level dynamic event , does the reward going to scale to our level or just bunch of lowbies reward?
Originally posted by EvilGeek
End Game
There is an anti grind philosophy with GW2, there will be no end game grinding through raids to achieve better and better gear. there will be 'elite' zones and dungeons so that players who enjoy a challenge can play through those. End game is expected to consist of elite content, PvP, crafting and achievements. The sidekick system will also allow high level players to revisit and experience new dynamic events in lower level areas. Any grind will be purely voluntary and will likely be rewarded with titles and cosmetic items. As there are individual starter areas and cities for each race and branching personal story arcs, it's expected that rolling alts will add to retention of players.
Comments
2) Get out of the idea of you must raid to endgame. In GW2, endgame literally is the entire game. You can do whatever you like. You want to run dungeons, go ahead. You want to do PvP, have fun. You want to do more dynamic events, more power to you. You just want to explore every nook and crany of Tyria, you can do that too. Basically, just because you hit the number "80", be thrust into an entirely different game.
3) No clue
If you don't like the idea of gear not being the distinguishing factor between players, there are plenty of games for you. If you don't like the idea of a person wh only plays maybe 4 hours a week being as effective, if not better than those who play the game like a full time job, there are plenty of other games out there for you. I can tell you GW2 is NOT one of those games, and it will NOT be one of those games. GW2 values skill over time.
And my breaks between my points didn't show up. Stupid iPad..
There are no raids (as in large group, difficult, instanced PvE content) in GW2 - instead, we get Dungeons, which are small group challenging instances. They are repeatable, but reward system doesn't encourage months of grinding endgame - you can repeat them as often as you wish, and you will get all rewards during first few runs (as they're token based). Also, there are various paths through them, allowing subsequent runs to be different.
There is no gear with better stats for any sort of activity (be it PvP or PvE) - best stats are fairly easy to get, difference is in looks. Long time players may obtain gear that's more awesome looking.
Dungeons aren't the only endgame content - we do get open world zones filled with level 80 Dynamic Events. Together with Dungeons, storyline, minigames and exploration they form the core of level 80 PvE experience. There is nothing like Daily Quests in GW2 - in fact, Anet went the opposite direction. Instead of repeating same content each day, area experience will be different each time you log in - one day, you may be defending villages from bandit attacks, next one you may raid centaur villages in the same zone. Dynamic Events are rewarded with Karma, which can be exchanged for various goods - I don't think we know for sure if DE rewards scale with player's level.
GW2 is a game that's really got a different philosophy than traditional MMOs. It's a lot more about freedom and just being able to do whatever it is you want to do.
In traditional MMOs, endgame is raiding or PVP because those are the ways to get better gear. GW2 has gear with stats, but it's not so gear-centric. You can probably get the best (or close to it) statistical power gear from a variety of methods; dungeons, PVP, crafting, grinding karma. The difference is about looks. There will be optional grinds for vanity, but nothing mandatory.
Because of this, there's no instanced raiding with more than 5 people. Why go through all that hassle for just another skin? There will be a lot of dungeon options. There's 8 dungeons, each with an easier story path and 3 harder explorable paths (32+ in total). There will also be large open world encounters which scale up to 100 people taking part.
GW2 automatically mentors you down in power when you go to a lower level event (or you can manually sidekick up). So there aren't any dailies. The entire world is your daily, you can go anywhere and do anything. They'll be adding new events regularly for free, or zones you visited before might have different ones running this time. There's hidden events to find. Even dungeons will have different events each time as well as hidden ones. In addition, there's the personal story for your character that you can probably run 3 times per race and get a new experience each time. There's a lot of potential for replayability in this game.
Like I said, it's really just about whatever you want to do. There's events, minigames, PVP, tasks in the open world. The way the game works also doesn't require you to play a specific class when doing a dungeon, so really if you feel like playing this toon today instead of that one, you're not locked in.
To answer your question about scaling down, I remember them saying that if you go to a lower level DE, you'll be rewarded enough to make it worth your while, but not as well as if you did one your level. I'm never going to be able to find that source though.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
- OP
As has been stated GW doesn't really revolve around gear, and neither does GW2. They are more tools in the sense that you need a gun to use certain skills, or a sword to use others, and you can add minor enhancements for some perks, but the weapons vary very little in terms of strength w/ out enhancements. It's mostly cosmetic.
In GW1, there were dungeons at the end that you could run to find certain rare weapons that looked cool, and came with the enhancements you wanted built in, or you could go find another weapon you thought looked cool and added the stats you wanted after.
There are 'grinds' at end game, but they are really optional, not mandatory. For example you can grind / farm reputation for places if you need it, or PvP for contribution points to buy new stuff, or farm money / enhancements for your gear. The stuff isn't mandatory by any means, but some people still do it.
Usually you gain skill by putting the time in. Those that play more will be more effective than those that don't even if its just skill based rather than gear.
So gw2 is revolutionary because: ¨dont have an Endgame¨?. and just the rp players care about cosmetic gear, so at the end, gw2 will be all about arenas and the WvWvW, where you dont even need to level up your char to do that. good thing im not hype about this game, but i fell sorry for the people who really believe that gw2 gonna be ¨a revolution¨ for the genre. And i just saw this vid, is this the exciting gw2 combat? is all about ¨ 1 2 1 2 111111 and 2 once again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv6mCOo2k5k
Yep. Everyone's hyped about the game because the combat is nothing but button mashing, and there's no endgame. Everyone will quit after a week because they won't have any gear treadmill, which is of course the only possible endgame a game could ever have. It also has no subscription fee, which means it will be low quality and contain much less content than a "real" MMO that charges the appropriate subscription.
There's no tiers of gear with ever increasing stats, there's no 40-man instances to farm hundreds of times, and instead, there's going to be a P2W cash shop that sells everything people would ever get in-game so you don't even have to play.
We're all a bunch of idiots for being interested in GW2. Luckily you ferreted out our mistake with your 10 seconds of laser-focused wit and in-depth research. We can all move on now. See you later! *waves*
You're watching wrong videos. Try something like this pvp video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkI1SUvk1PY instead of quite old pve videos.
thanks for insight on the first GW, ....
Well man, ur point makes me even more confused. Then what is the point for coming online regularly other than having social interaction with ur frens (doing pvp and dungeons)?
Because as far as i can see myself , i wont be motivated enough to go online regularly if the reward is only to make me prettier .. I understand the idea : skill > gear , but rewarding 'no-life' players with only "good looks" is kinda harsh dun u think?
pls dun misunderstand me , i think GW2 is going to give WoW some "ooo shit" moment more and yes i 100% will play this game , but i am just worry that there wont be enough 'to-do' when u reach max level.
It's all about the massive PVP and GVGVG battles. no gear grind is good.
Instead of logging on to do instance # 43 for the 43rd time for that piece of gear that simply refuses to drop you will be logging on to the GVG battlefield and chatting with friends about battle tactics.
Or participating in the changing dynamic world by releasing the uber mega WTF monster of death so it can go rampaging the countryside.
There will be no shortage of content in GW2 at endgame. If you find you have done everything in the game then it's time to roll another toon so you have more flexibility in PVP.
Button mashing........seriously????, are you even looking at the same game? the combat involves dodging, aiming, weapon switching, battlefield awareness, multiplayer tactics and combo skill use.
The post you are quoting is sarcasm.
I saw that vid too, and thats Gw2, an e-sport game, Like LoL or a dota game. And is not something bad, but the problem is that a lot of people really believe that gw2 will be something that it wont be.
So you go out of your way to link a video of some guy who has been playing the game for all of 17 minutes as an example of GW2 combat when you know there's other videos out there which show it in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.
Could you describe all the aspects of Dynamic Events? What about the combat, since you're well versed in the videos of it? Perhaps you would be so kind as to prove to us that you understand the mechanics of the game?
If you know all about it but still don't consider it revolutionary, then that's your prerogative. But I assure you that "dont have an endgame" isn't the reason that we think that it is revolutionary.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
To OP: Mate, you are drawning in the well of fakeness. Most other MMOs make you gring cus they need you to pay monthly. You will come online cus you like the fantasy world, you want to go away from the real world. You want to have fun, just for the fun, you dont need to "work hard", cus the game said so. And if you cant see it, well...
Btw this counts for many things in our lifes. But thats different conversation.
We don't really know yet what's going to be compelling about GW2 at max level. We know what will be available to do, but since currently the only MMO endgame we are acquainted with is increasing stats through gear (raiding), it's hard to imagine what will keep us motivated to excel. Check back when someone hits 80 I guess.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
Then you won't play regularly. Who said that Anet wants to achieve that? They create a MMO that is supposed to be played because it's fun, not because of some carrot on a stick. As long as they make it fun, there will be people who will return to the game for expansions, or even won't stop playing because there are plenty of fun stuff to do.
Agreed.
I wonder if not switching between 2 or 3 B2P games with less grind really would be the most fun way to play MMOs.
The whole idea of constantly releasing new raid gear tiers is not good for the genre, it turned MMO gaming from being about having fun to a more or less real job. There is no need to invent new and fun things, instead you just slap a little more bonus on next gen gear and release a few similar raids.
Everytime I think of the standard endgame (raids with gear as the carrot) I always think of Yahtzees review of WoW. It's all about the numbers.
That's an easy one. Everything in the game is endgame, or in other words, there is no endgame other than pvp.
No, actually. The problem is that people believe that gw2 fans believe it will be something it won't be.
Some people do assume a lot of things about GW2, you still see quite a few people getting shocked when someone tells them there wont be any raiding or that all lvl 80 gear is balanced in power to eachother.
But we are getting less of that by now, and one would assume that "real" GW2 fans actually read up on the game.
Well, a large part of the first game was also unlocking skills / refining builds, almost like fantasy football or magic the gathering, you were also mixing & matching choices to try and find the best combinations (of skills).
As for GW2, this will still exist, but to a lesser degree (as half the skills are tied to weapon choice). I hope this changes (in that they give you a choice of which skills you use for each weapon), but so far that doesn't seem likely. If you're only incentive to play MMOs is the proverbial carrot on the stick, then you may have trouble with this one.
The incentives to login to GW2 are largely social. PvP, running dungeons with friends, refining builds / testing experimental builds, cosmetics, managing your personal instance / guild events, world pvp / pve events will be what keeps people playing. However, this isn't generally an MMO that what's players to play it 24/7. It's very break friendly, and players who do not devote their lives to it don't get left behind nearly as much as in other games.
Keep in mind that this game is also the cheapest paid MMO (no sub) you can buy, so buying and trying it won't be such a big deal. Many of the features that make the game good are foreign to most MMO players, and as such will have to be experienced to be fully understood.
This gear treadmill that everyone seems to accept as "standard" MMO endgame content has only been around since 2004 when WoW appeared. It's not "standard", it's just the bullshit excuse for lack of content we all have to put up with.
GW2 will offer something that has been missing since DAoC released ToA, skill based (rather than gear based) PvP between 3 realms. If that's not something you understand then you either never played DAoC, or didn't like it. For me it was one of the best MMO gameplay experiences I've had since I started with MMO's in 1999.
Get rid of the Trinity. Check!
Get rid of gear grind. Check!
Get some 3 sided, large scale RvR going. Check!
It's almost as if someone decided to make DAoC's spritual successor. What's not to like?
Lets be quite frank here. If you are the type of player who absolutely must have better gear then some newb down the road then GW2 is not for you. If you must have better and better stats on gear then GW2 is not for you. So good day and dont even play the game.
Now if you're in what I would consider the silent majority of gamers, those who dont raid and those who look at an MMO as a game and not a way of life then there is plenty to do. Also if you are a PvP'er who lieks fair fights and not the ganker who beats up on little kids and steals their milk money, then you should like GW2 as well.
I hate raiding because it promotes elitism. my ideal of raiding is impromptu server wide annouancements calling for allys to take down a rising threat. Funny how GW2 has just this type of raiding in bosses like the Shatterer and Tequatl the Sunless. GW2 also has tons of dynamic quests that will take a long time to see each chain through to conclusion, and the great thing is you get rewarded after level cap with Karma and gold, yet another reason that DE's will be awesome.
Then we have crafting, PvP, Storymode and Explorable mode dungeons with each having multiple encounters and ways to take the dungeon. There is so much content to see and do that it is amazing to see. Now like I stated If you are the type of player that likes to sit around town in your full epic suit on some bad ass steed that drops only .001% showing off your amazing E-Peen, then this game might not be for you and that for me is a GREAT thing.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I applaud GW2 for taking a stance against endgame raiding seeing as it effectively kills MMORPGs for a lot of players who lack a significant amount of time to devote to that aspect of gameplay, but I do see endgame as a definate concern in regard to Guild Wars 2 for a couple reasons. One, we know that Guild Wars 1 lacked a real endgame outside of PvP, and while Anet protested that GW1 wasn't an MMORPG while GW2 is such a game, they do follow a similar pay model. Anet doesn't need to worry as much about implementing ways to retain players because there's no monthly subscription fee which could possibly translate to less to do at the max level. Secondly, we have heard fairly little as to what all there is to do once a player achieves the max level outside of PvP and re-running lower level content. Even the guys from Tales of Tyria spoke about this in a recent video and pretty much claimed that PvP will be what keeps players around. Given that PvP was a major focus of GW1, this is fine, and it would be fine no matter what the case, but isn't GW2 set to be a revolutionary PvE experience? It doesn't seem right that a game with revolutionary PvE would only be set to keep players due to its PvP.
Anet said they seek to remove "the grind" from their MMORPG by reducing hte importance of stats and emphasizing skill over gear. Also, the leveling curve will be much shorter, so players won't have to spend months getting to the max level. The problem I have with this is that players need motivation to continue playing. Players need to feel a sense of progression be it in character levels of character stats, and this is true for games outside fo the MMORPG genre as well. If players have no reason to run content aside from "just doing it" or for appearance items, where's the motivation to do anything? Even sandbox MMORPGs give players continued motivation at the endgame even if it's just something as simple as saying that you're going to log in and chop down 50 trees. Even single player RPGs give players motivation for doing everything they do. With Guild Wars 2, it seems like everything you get, in many ways, is available to you right from the start which is where a lot of this "go anywhere, do anything" idea comes from. The issue with this is that GW2 is not a sandbox. It has a definate beginning and end. Once you hit the max level, doesn't your progression effectively stop unless you want some nice looking armor to show off once you ride into town? What motivation do I have to continually explore and area and continually run dynamic events? As cool as they "may be," I can't envision people being content with this in the long term, because those events are eventually going to get boring, and at its essence I still cannot differentiate GW2's level scaling from level scaling in any other game aside from the fact that dynamic events should be different depending on when you travel through an area.