SW:ToR - better with FPS style combat?

Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?

Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

Wharg0ul

Just my experienced opinion here....but if you're standing in one place mashing buttons in SWTOR, you're doing it wrong.

And this behavior is of course probably just a bad habit picked up from other MMOs.

I think it will be a while before people "get it" with SWTOR's combat. They see a hotbar, and can tab to target, and they assume that it's just like the other games they are used to.

In answer to your question.....no, I don't think so. Try Darkfall, and tell me how much fun FPS combat is in an MMORPG.

jerlot65

then it would be an FPS.  go to the Battlefield forums and suggest they chang their combat to MMO style combat and see what they say........

Teala

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Just my experienced opinion here....but if you're standing in one place mashing buttons in SWTOR, you're doing it wrong.

And this behavior is of course probably just a bad habit picked up from other MMOs.

I think it will be a while before people "get it" with SWTOR's combat. They see a hotbar, and can tab to target, and they assume that it's just like the other games they are used to.

In answer to your question.....no, I don't think so. Try Darkfall, and tell me how much fun FPS combat is in an MMORPG.

I played Planetside and it has FPS combat, and it was a blast.  Please do not use DF though as an example of a good FPS MMO, because it isn't.

Also, tell me what good running around in SW:ToR is...everything is based on RNG combat.   Once something or someone has targeted you, its a roll fo the dice if they hit you - no amount of jumping or running is going to change that.   It isn't Asheron's Call and it isn't Planetside.

Mardukk

Originally posted by jerlot65

then it would be an FPS.  go to the Battlefield forums and suggest they chang their combat to MMO style combat and see what they say........

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The FPS crowd have some MMO-like games coming in the near future...hopefully those releases will shut them up.

MMO.Maverick

Personally I'd have preferred it when BW would have gone the Planetside or Mass Effect way of combat, I think it would have been more fitting for SW gunfights, and maybe adopt AoC's melee combat that's more locational than tab based for the lightsabre combat. I think it could have worked like that.

Unfortunately, it's not what happened.

I'm not burnt out on traditional MMO combat style though, so I'm sure it'll be enjoyable too even if it isn't my first choice of combat preference.

 

Originally posted by Teala

Also, tell me what good running around in SW:ToR is...everything is based on RNG combat.   Once something or someone has targeted you, its a roll fo the dice if they hit you - no amount of jumping or running is going to change that.   It isn't Asheron's Call and it isn't Planetside.

Actually, in several videos I saw some players use running and obstacles used to great effect, like a scene where a smuggler jumped up to shoot at someone on a plateau where the highest point of his jumps seemed to provide line of sight and use obstacles to break line of sight or to keep distance from melee fighters while continuing to shoot.

I'm sure that good PvP players will be able to take advantage of movement and obstacles. In fact, I can't recall good PvP players merely standing still all the time in any MMORPG.

Mardukk

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Just my experienced opinion here....but if you're standing in one place mashing buttons in SWTOR, you're doing it wrong.

And this behavior is of course probably just a bad habit picked up from other MMOs.

I think it will be a while before people "get it" with SWTOR's combat. They see a hotbar, and can tab to target, and they assume that it's just like the other games they are used to.

In answer to your question.....no, I don't think so. Try Darkfall, and tell me how much fun FPS combat is in an MMORPG.

I played Planetside and it has FPS combat, and it was a blast.  Please do not use DF though as an example of a good FPS MMO, because it isn't.

Also, tell me what good running around in SW:ToR is...everything is based on RNG combat.   Once something or someone has targeted you, its a roll fo the dice if they hit you - no amount of jumping or running is going to change that.   It isn't Asheron's Call and it isn't Planetside.

Well games like EQ1 had combat strategies such as kiting, which did involve a bit more strategy.  Not sure if kiting will be possible in SWTOR.

mrcalhou

While I really hope a game comes out that has Eve's level of player interaction and economics, but with true aim-based combat (not that psuedo fps thing like Fallen Earth), I really do think that ToR would do better with the tab-targetting mechanic, only because that's similiar to the kind of combat the KoTOR games had.

Loke666

It would be more like the movies, but I am not sure that it woud be better, just different.

DexterMMO

Game would lose most if not all non fps style fans.

Zaush

Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?
Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

 

Gone would be 70% of the player base. FPS MMOs appeal to a very niche crowd.

DexterMMO

Originally posted by Zaush

Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?
Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

 

Gone would be 70% of the player base. FPS MMOs appeal to a very niche crowd.

 

70%??? I'd give it 30% at the very best which would by far be the most populated mmofps

mav1234

before playing the game I would have said yes, but now, I don't think so.

however I do agree with Maverick (no relation, honest) that adopting some of AoC's mechanics would have benefited this game, or at least something more than what it did.  I realize that moving around a bit in combat is fun and stuff, but it doesn't seem to grant me any advantage in pve questing compared to just chain gunning stuff dead.

Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?

Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

Horribly bad idea.  I woudn't even give this game a second look with an FPS combat system.  

Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Just my experienced opinion here....but if you're standing in one place mashing buttons in SWTOR, you're doing it wrong.

And this behavior is of course probably just a bad habit picked up from other MMOs.

I think it will be a while before people "get it" with SWTOR's combat. They see a hotbar, and can tab to target, and they assume that it's just like the other games they are used to.

In answer to your question.....no, I don't think so. Try Darkfall, and tell me how much fun FPS combat is in an MMORPG.

I played Planetside and it has FPS combat, and it was a blast.  Please do not use DF though as an example of a good FPS MMO, because it isn't.

Also, tell me what good running around in SW:ToR is...everything is based on RNG combat.   Once something or someone has targeted you, its a roll fo the dice if they hit you - no amount of jumping or running is going to change that.   It isn't Asheron's Call and it isn't Planetside.

I used Darkfall as an example due to the fact that lightsabers are melee weapons, and melee combat pretty much sucks in FPS style games.

So...watch a Darkfall melee battle video, and replace the weapons with lightsabers.

Get me now??

As far as ranged combat in SWTOR, range, LOS, cover, and many other things are a factor. The mobs don't magically hit you through a rock once they have noticed you, like we have seen in other MMOs from the past.

The combat is almost a TPS / MMO hybrid, with tab targeting. This is one of the reasons that there is no auto attack in the game. The combat is a lot more involved than standing next to a mob spamming a few specials.

But in a couple months this will be common knowledge.

Cyberdeck7

I agree with the OP. True FPS combat similar to the Jedi games would have made this game for me.

To the "go over to their forum" crowd - I play 90% MMOs. I play out the story lines in FPS, that's about it. Nothing wrong with a little gaming skill in a game. Tabbed targeting requires less network infrastructure and is easier on the servers, that is why it was implemented in early MMOs. Combat has always been a disappointment in MMOs IMHO.

mav1234

@whargh0ul: Where is it more involved than that?  I did like TOR, and I felt like I had the freedom to jump around all crazy, but I felt equally effective questing just sitting there gunning/sabering stuff down.  I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I am honestly curious... do mobs and stuff gain AoE abilities you need to move away from when soloing or is this purely an endgame thing or what?

Zylaxx

Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?

Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

I truely believe that a hybrid FPS style combat and a total disconnect from the holy trinity would of made this game freaking amazing.  I am pretty sure I never saw Luke or Anakin get healed even when they were in the toughest of situations.  As immersive as the game seems to be I cant help to wonder how realistic is it to have bounty hunters or storm troopers healing people.  In my original assessment of the game it was the main factor in all my negativity because to me a healer/tank/dps trinity makes absolutely no sense in the cannon of the game.

Teala

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Just my experienced opinion here....but if you're standing in one place mashing buttons in SWTOR, you're doing it wrong.

And this behavior is of course probably just a bad habit picked up from other MMOs.

I think it will be a while before people "get it" with SWTOR's combat. They see a hotbar, and can tab to target, and they assume that it's just like the other games they are used to.

In answer to your question.....no, I don't think so. Try Darkfall, and tell me how much fun FPS combat is in an MMORPG.

I played Planetside and it has FPS combat, and it was a blast.  Please do not use DF though as an example of a good FPS MMO, because it isn't.

Also, tell me what good running around in SW:ToR is...everything is based on RNG combat.   Once something or someone has targeted you, its a roll fo the dice if they hit you - no amount of jumping or running is going to change that.   It isn't Asheron's Call and it isn't Planetside.

I used Darkfall as an example due to the fact that lightsabers are melee weapons, and melee combat pretty much sucks in FPS style games.

So...watch a Darkfall melee battle video, and replace the weapons with lightsabers.

Get me now??

As far as ranged combat in SWTOR, range, LOS, cover, and many other things are a factor. The mobs don't magically hit you through a rock once they have noticed you, like we have seen in other MMOs from the past.

The combat is almost a TPS / MMO hybrid, with tab targeting. This is one of the reasons that there is no auto attack in the game. The combat is a lot more involved than standing next to a mob spamming a few specials.

But in a couple months this will be common knowledge.

Not from my experience in game.   It is what it is and to say otherwise is just plan wrong.   There is no need to do anything other than stand in one place and fight.    No amount of movement makes any difference whatsoever. 

Darkfall is a bad example and the FPS melee in Darkfall is a joke.   BTW the FPS combat in Mount and Blade:Warband works great, and it worked great in games like Jedi Acedemy and SW: Battlefront - so I beg to differ that FPS melee combat just sucks.

Cthulhu23

Originally posted by mav1234

@whargh0ul: Where is it more involved than that?  I did like TOR, and I felt like I had the freedom to jump around all crazy, but I felt equally effective questing just sitting there gunning/sabering stuff down.  I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I am honestly curious... do mobs and stuff gain AoE abilities you need to move away from when soloing or is this purely an endgame thing or what?

You can do that when you are out questing and levelling.  Technically, you don't have to move around or utilize line of sight or any of that stuff.  But you cannot do that in this game in PvP, and you cannot do it in higher level instances.  I think people will find out very quickly in this game that what works for solo questing and level grinding doesn't work for the harder stuff.  

Thorqemada

As i know you dont like the game OP i may get the idea you want to lure Bioware into doom with your topic - No, i dont think it would be a better game.

If circlestrafing and bunnyhopping would be an interesting gameplay, it would have Banzai-Bunnys with guns already somewhere but i havent heard of it

Maybe MWO gets it done, if you like Mechwarrior Faction Warfare with Planetary Conquest, where skill means probably to unlock Mechs, Equipment and Weapons and does not make you a better Pilot only through investing more time grinding xp.

Zaush

Originally posted by DexterMMO

Originally posted by Zaush

Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?
Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

 

Gone would be 70% of the player base. FPS MMOs appeal to a very niche crowd.

 

70%??? I'd give it 30% at the very best which would by far be the most populated mmofps

 

Well you first would take out a large population of the KOTOR/first time MMO crowd. You would lose a large portion of the older RPG crowd too. Min system specs and Internet connection speeds would have to be top notch. Honestly a better choice would be to make a coop Star Wars FPS for consoles.

Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?

Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

I truely believe that a hybrid FPS style combat and a total disconnect from the holy trinity would of made this game freaking amazing.  I am pretty sure I never saw Luke or Anakin get healed even when they were in the toughest of situations.  As immersive as the game seems to be I cant help to wonder how realistic is it to have bounty hunters or storm troopers healing people.  In my original assessment of the game it was the main factor in all my negativity because to me a healer/tank/dps trinity makes absolutely no sense in the cannon of the game.

FPS should remain in FPS games.  That kind of combat doesn't belong in a themepark MMO.  Now, if someone would suggest a 3rd person aiming style of combat, I could get on board with that.  But FPS?  No way.   Would kill the game for me.  

mav1234

I was hoping for combat similar to ME but I think they went in this direciton for wider market appeal. 

As to the holy trinity, that aspect doesn't bother me so much... Maybe because I had exposure to a lot of Star Wars outside the movies, but it didn't seem unrealistic to have healers and stuff actually in the fight.

mav1234

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by mav1234

@whargh0ul: Where is it more involved than that?  I did like TOR, and I felt like I had the freedom to jump around all crazy, but I felt equally effective questing just sitting there gunning/sabering stuff down.  I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I am honestly curious... do mobs and stuff gain AoE abilities you need to move away from when soloing or is this purely an endgame thing or what?

You can do that when you are out questing and levelling.  Technically, you don't have to move around or utilize line of sight or any of that stuff.  But you cannot do that in this game in PvP, and you cannot do it in higher level instances.  I think people will find out very quickly in this game that what works for solo questing and level grinding doesn't work for the harder stuff.  

 

awesome, I like the sound of that.  Like I said, I was honestly trying to find out, I refused to play past 20ish so I didn't spoil much of the story for myself, so I have 0 experience in endgame.

Zaush

Originally posted by Zylaxx


Originally posted by Teala

Now I know this is a sticky subject with some people that feel the standard hotbar, tab target, combat mechanics is how an MMO should be made, but I can't help but wonder what this games combat would have been like with FPS combat.   Not psuedo FPS, but good FPS with real type ballistics physics.    Imagine the kind of fights one might have using this type of game play.   It worked for such games SW: Battlefront and Jedi Acedemy - why not SW:ToR?
Gone would be the static, stand in one place playing whack-the-mole.  Gone would be the static, stand in one place, shooting it out.  Because that is how the current games combat mechanics, which to me, are sad, dull, and boring.   Am I the only one that feels FPS combat would have made this game a 100% better and a game that would have been challenging and fun?  

I truely believe that a hybrid FPS style combat and a total disconnect from the holy trinity would of made this game freaking amazing.  I am pretty sure I never saw Luke or Anakin get healed even when they were in the toughest of situations.  As immersive as the game seems to be I cant help to wonder how realistic is it to have bounty hunters or storm troopers healing people.  In my original assessment of the game it was the main factor in all my negativity because to me a healer/tank/dps trinity makes absolutely no sense in the cannon of the game.

 

It called suspension of disbelief and is a mainstay for game development.