At the end of the day, this article is all about Blizzard's idea to put in RMT AH to make more bucks than box sales alone.
Sorry, you guys might get paid to write up on such articles to sway people's opinions by subliminal sorts of propaganda which make the greedy corporations look like saviours of foreign welfare homes, but I for one wont be buying into this folly.
I will vote with my money and never give my vote to any RMT middleman or buy a game that encourages RMT as a new source of game revenue.
The main reason i think RMT still exist is because of people who rather take a shortcut than actually playing the game. Its obvious that RL takes alot of time and makes it impossible to spend as much time as others to progress in game but thats a given. If you dont work for it ( so to speak ) imo you shouldnt be as well geared as those that do have the time, its just part of the game design thats why FTP trive so much but dont bring that **** into p2p games.
If both sellers and buyers would get banned im sure alot of the RMT would dissapear off most games. i dont think a player would want to lose hundreds of dollars if not thousans over getting caught buying gold.
If your not ready to play by the rules set out for players , look for something else to play. I love when people say get a job like a grown up yet they act like brats who want instant gratification by buying levels / gold off farmers .
I don't bot, I don't macro, I don't exploit (most recently the ToR stuff), I don't do any of that crap. I buy Gold that I could otherwise grind out in a couple of weeks time. My time is valuable.
Well it's getting a bit heated here so going to try and remain civil Ikeda; just pointing out that whilst you may not personally bot, macro or exploit in your chosen games the gold farmers that you support, (in my personal experience), do tend to bot, macro and exploit.
Incidentally I recommend reading the quoted paper it's rather interesting though heavily biased and poorly referenced, (only work he references in support of his paper is his...own other paper). The author seems to be against companies taking over RMT and in favour of leaving it with the gold farmers as it provides employment to otherwise unemployed young men though there are alot of fluffy statements with no supporting evidence and he himself states that the working conditions are poor.
Edit: That said the paper does a marginally better job of making a (purely ethical) case for gold farming - author of the article probably would've better served his purpose by just quoting the whole paper.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
.... so what your saying is I'm lying and cheating, and not playing by the rules ... over and over.
Get over yourselves. It's a game. A GAME. I don't bot, I don't macro, I don't exploit (most recently the ToR stuff), I don't do any of that crap. I buy Gold that I could otherwise grind out in a couple of weeks time. My time is valuable.
I'm sorry that when you look back on your life on your deathbed you'll say to yourself ... man, I should have spent 40 more hours grinding for gold for a mount that will only be around as long as the game... how well did that work for you SWG fans out there? Man, if only I spent another 120 hours into WoW I could score that Epic Tier 8532 armor.... which will be outdated with nexts months patch and the release of 8533 armor....
While I am willing to admit there is a HUGE darkside to RMT, at the end of the day, it's a GAME.
But if you really wanna know...
my kid wants money, I make them do some chores for said money, they do their chores, they get the cash. What exactly do you define as a chore? Well dishes, clearing the table, cleaning the room, babysitting, walking the pets. ALL STUFF that I COULD do, but choose to outsource.
How could you say no to:
Originally posted by MacroHard
And one more thing before I ignore you permanently:
Oh noes, I'm being ignored by someone who created their account since the new year. If you can't take disagreement, have fun with life cause it's going to be a terrible one. Oh, Macro Hard... yea.. word play... so obvious. Just like sarcasm in text form.
So, in few words, you are a guy willing to break the law or applied rules/agreements on a given context, just because you have the money to do so?
Yes, you are indeed a true capitalist and i must say a politician in the making.
I do find funny when you try to drawn the line between whats "legal" and whats "not legal but can be done" by stating that you know it is not legal to buy game currency, but you still do so because it is a "game".
Im still trying to decide if you are just a troll, or a dumb kid, or in fact the true expression of a low life capitalist pawn.
So, in few words, you are a guy willing to break the law or applied rules/agreements on a given context, just because you have the money to do so?
Yes, you are indeed a true capitalist and i must say a politician in the making.
I do find funny when you try to drawn the line between whats "legal" and whats "not legal but can be done" by stating that you know it is not legal to buy game currency, but you still do so because it is a "game".
Im still trying to decide if you are just a troll, or a dumb kid, or in fact the true expression of a low life capitalist pawn.
It's not law ffs It just a agreement with a game company Get on with reality. Breaking their rules is about as much as breaking your mums order to bring out the trash right now.
RMT is perfectly LEGAL . It's just against the TOS. Of course if you live in certain countrys corporate intereset is above peoples interest and it might weight heavier but you know first world countries in europe tend to see it different.
If the game dev really cares he can ban people, but guess what? They dont cause they like their subscription money.
It's fair. I worked for my money. I paid them. They worked to get the gold. They sold me the gold. They obviously have time that I don't have or am willing to sacrifice from my family.
At the end of the day, if I buy a lvl 10000000000 epic super flying mount that shoots rainbows out it's ass and you work 100 hrs to do the same.... it's none of your damned business if I got mine with RMT or earned it in game.
FFS, the take home from this, is cry me a freakin' river that I have earned every penny in my bank and get to spend it how I say. If I wanna buy 10K gold, that's my problem.
Obviously you don't get it. Cheating is cheating. Attempting to justify it is just ludicrous.
So, in few words, you are a guy willing to break the law or applied rules/agreements on a given context, just because you have the money to do so?
Yes, you are indeed a true capitalist and i must say a politician in the making.
I do find funny when you try to drawn the line between whats "legal" and whats "not legal but can be done" by stating that you know it is not legal to buy game currency, but you still do so because it is a "game".
Im still trying to decide if you are just a troll, or a dumb kid, or in fact the true expression of a low life capitalist pawn.
It's not law ffs It just a agreement with a game company Get on with reality. Breaking their rules is about as much as breaking your mums order to bring out the trash right now. RMT is perfectly LEGAL . It's just against the TOS. Of course if you live in certain countrys corporate intereset is above peoples interest but you know first world countries in europe tend to see it different. If the game dev really cares he can ban people, but guess what? They dont cause they like their money.
Seriously cheating is never ok. Oh and by the way TOS's have stood up in court cases, it is a contract you agree to, so yes you are essentially breaking a contract which does violate the law.
Seriously cheating is never ok. Oh and by the way TOS's have stood up in court cases, it is a contract you agree to, so yes you are essentially breaking a contract which does violate the law.
Agreed, even not all of those TOS would stand in court, some of them have pretty weird things in them. Heh, Mortal online have cut and pasted their from Eve, they even forgot to change CCP to Star vault.
Seriously cheating is never ok. Oh and by the way TOS's have stood up in court cases, it is a contract you agree to, so yes you are essentially breaking a contract which does violate the law.
here most game TOS don't pass cause they violate the law and the salvatory clause doesn't save them.
Go out, get a job, earn some money, do it too. No one's stopping you.
Oh it's not fair, oh rich people have money, oh we're down trodden by the man.
I'm not a communist or a socialist. I'm a pure-100% capitalist and it makes the world go round.
Honey, I'm 35 years old. I'm happily married and work full time. Just like you. Once again, thats not fair. I'm sorry, but its not ok to rob people blind while you call it "capitalism" just because you can. Its called morals.
It's fair. I worked for my money. I paid them. They worked to get the gold. They sold me the gold. They obviously have time that I don't have or am willing to sacrifice from my family.
At the end of the day, if I buy a lvl 10000000000 epic super flying mount that shoots rainbows out it's ass and you work 100 hrs to do the same.... it's none of your damned business if I got mine with RMT or earned it in game.
FFS, the take home from this, is cry me a freakin' river that I have earned every penny in my bank and get to spend it how I say. If I wanna buy 10K gold, that's my problem.
No, thats not fair. To anyone else.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
You won't ever convince them that what they're doing is wrong because they don't care.
I've had a few former friends and guildies that admitted they buy gold and items, use bots and hacks, and exploit when they can. Some people are just like that.
The best thing you can do is shun them.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
Anyone who is anti-RMT never had to buy more than 3-4 epic riding mounts in WoW. Buying Gold was an incredible life saver. I will say that what it started as, and what is has become. And if I had to go back and buy epic flying blah blah blah for the old areas... I would have BOUGHT more gold to do so for all my toons.
I freely give to friends and guildies, anything they need. Cash sometimes flows.. but that's why games think they're so clever by making some of the rewards obscene. No thanks.
lol...
So you freely admit you're a failure, then proceed to lecture the rest of us, because of your own inability of perserverence, challenge & patience..?
Lets face it, your actions are that of a child and are unable to acertain the subject matter @ hand. You are only looking at yourself and what you want, not what other have done and whats taking place.
I am quite sure nearly anyone who've read your post, has pity on you.
It's fair. I worked for my money. I paid them. They worked to get the gold. They sold me the gold. They obviously have time that I don't have or am willing to sacrifice from my family. At the end of the day, if I buy a lvl 10000000000 epic super flying mount that shoots rainbows out it's ass and you work 100 hrs to do the same.... it's none of your damned business if I got mine with RMT or earned it in game. FFS, the take home from this, is cry me a freakin' river that I have earned every penny in my bank and get to spend it how I say. If I wanna buy 10K gold, that's my problem.
No, thats not fair. To anyone else.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
You won't ever convince them that what they're doing is wrong because they don't care.
I've had a few former friends and guildies that admitted they buy gold and items, use bots and hacks, and exploit when they can. Some people are just like that.
The best thing you can do is shun them.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
Who is robbing who now? WTF are you talking about?
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
.... so what your saying is I'm lying and cheating, and not playing by the rules ... over and over.
Get over yourselves. It's a game. A GAME. I don't bot, I don't macro, I don't exploit (most recently the ToR stuff), I don't do any of that crap. I buy Gold that I could otherwise grind out in a couple of weeks time. My time is valuable.
I'm sorry that when you look back on your life on your deathbed you'll say to yourself ... man, I should have spent 40 more hours grinding for gold for a mount that will only be around as long as the game... how well did that work for you SWG fans out there? Man, if only I spent another 120 hours into WoW I could score that Epic Tier 8532 armor.... which will be outdated with nexts months patch and the release of 8533 armor....
While I am willing to admit there is a HUGE darkside to RMT, at the end of the day, it's a GAME.
But if you really wanna know...
my kid wants money, I make them do some chores for said money, they do their chores, they get the cash. What exactly do you define as a chore? Well dishes, clearing the table, cleaning the room, babysitting, walking the pets. ALL STUFF that I COULD do, but choose to outsource.
How could you say no to:
Originally posted by MacroHard
And one more thing before I ignore you permanently:
Oh noes, I'm being ignored by someone who created their account since the new year. If you can't take disagreement, have fun with life cause it's going to be a terrible one. Oh, Macro Hard... yea.. word play... so obvious. Just like sarcasm in text form.
So, in few words, you are a guy willing to break the law or applied rules/agreements on a given context, just because you have the money to do so?
Yes, you are indeed a true capitalist and i must say a politician in the making.
I do find funny when you try to drawn the line between whats "legal" and whats "not legal but can be done" by stating that you know it is not legal to buy game currency, but you still do so because it is a "game".
Im still trying to decide if you are just a troll, or a dumb kid, or in fact the true expression of a low life capitalist pawn.
Capitalist pawn. There are plenty of people out there that truly believe this kind of insanity is right. They are the same reason the rich have seen their profits increase by 40% over the last ten years, while the middle class and poor have seen their incomes go below 1974 levels. Because somewhere along the lines, greed at any cost has become good. It makes me very sad for society.
You know, this happened once before in history. The Romans were the most powerful country in the world, and growing. Until the top became so corrupt and greedy that it destroyed them. While they were bickering amongst each other, trying to find a way to continue their rich life styles while the poor life got worse, the country crashed and burned with invasions from surrounding countries that used to never be able to hold a candle to them.
I'm hoping that these people will wake up before its too late. It's time for the good people to stand up for the rest. Thats why I'm against greed. Expecting that people will suffer so you can rule over them by having more money and stuff is alot worse than expecting to get a fair shake at the world.
It's fair. I worked for my money. I paid them. They worked to get the gold. They sold me the gold. They obviously have time that I don't have or am willing to sacrifice from my family.
At the end of the day, if I buy a lvl 10000000000 epic super flying mount that shoots rainbows out it's ass and you work 100 hrs to do the same.... it's none of your damned business if I got mine with RMT or earned it in game.
FFS, the take home from this, is cry me a freakin' river that I have earned every penny in my bank and get to spend it how I say. If I wanna buy 10K gold, that's my problem.
No, thats not fair. To anyone else.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
You won't ever convince them that what they're doing is wrong because they don't care.
I've had a few former friends and guildies that admitted they buy gold and items, use bots and hacks, and exploit when they can. Some people are just like that.
The best thing you can do is shun them.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
Who is robbing who now? WTF are you talking about?
Where exactly do you think they get so many items and gold hmm? Why do you think you get those emails trying to get you to log in. Last I looked, they're called "phishing". Think about it. This gold seller site is accepting money from people who do this and trying to justify it as just being the middle man.
Now... why exactly did you need that explained to you? Why wasn't it obvious to you just reading what I said rather than you needing it spelled out for you? Why exactly did I need to spell it out for you? Here's a suggestion in this world... you might like to try thinking beyond the exact words written on the screen. It will help you a great deal to survive in the world if you can think beyond exactly what you see.
It's fair. I worked for my money. I paid them. They worked to get the gold. They sold me the gold. They obviously have time that I don't have or am willing to sacrifice from my family.
At the end of the day, if I buy a lvl 10000000000 epic super flying mount that shoots rainbows out it's ass and you work 100 hrs to do the same.... it's none of your damned business if I got mine with RMT or earned it in game.
FFS, the take home from this, is cry me a freakin' river that I have earned every penny in my bank and get to spend it how I say. If I wanna buy 10K gold, that's my problem.
No, thats not fair. To anyone else.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
You won't ever convince them that what they're doing is wrong because they don't care.
I've had a few former friends and guildies that admitted they buy gold and items, use bots and hacks, and exploit when they can. Some people are just like that.
The best thing you can do is shun them.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
Who is robbing who now? WTF are you talking about?
Where exactly do you think they get so many items and gold hmm? Why do you think you get those emails trying to get you to log in. Last I looked, they're called "phishing". Think about it. This gold seller site is accepting money from people who do this and trying to justify it as just being the middle man.
Now... why exactly did you need that explained to you? Why wasn't it obvious to you just reading what I said rather than you needing it spelled out for you? Why exactly did I need to spell it out for you? Here's a suggestion in this world... you might like to try thinking beyond the exact words written on the screen. It will help you a great deal to survive in the world if you can think beyond exactly what you see.
I didn't read the original article fully cause i really don't care who they are or what they do. Im aware of pishing but it more like open email read,laugh and delete. You know where the most hacked accounts come from? Fansites. They are often badly secured and many users use same data as for their wow accounts. But i really don't care about all of that. You see just cause some rob people to resell it doesn't mean the whole market is build of robbers. If there is a guy in another country who makes more money working in a game and selling his virtual currency more power to him for beeing rational. People really shouldn't complain about that when they buy all their clothing produced the same way.
For those who dont know:
Check Return-Path in the email-header to see if it's from the game company If its pishing its mostly flatout aol yahoo or whatever, they rarely mask it
“We strongly believe that what is obtained in-game by the player, belongs to the player and he/she can trade it at their own discretion.
Casual gamers get the chance to play with the big boys (hard core gamers) through this trading, by getting up-to-par items through virtual currency or real world currency.
The idea of being able to cash out your virtual goods also creates more interest towards the game, drawing more players and more in-game time spent. It's no surprise that Diablo 3 is adopting in-game asset trading.”
There is one problem I find with this comment. In most ToS it states that the game and all property contained within (to include items and currency obtained in game) belong to the company. So it doesn't matter what they believe or how strongly they believe it, they're still violating the ToS and engaging in unauthorized transactions.
I'll go one step further and add that casual players do make a conscious decision to play a game that takes more time than they have to give. If they can't afford the time to play the game without cheating, they shouldn't be playing at all. There are plenty of games to choose from, many of which require almost no time at all to enjoy.
The excuse of "casual gamers get the chance to play with the big boys" is invalid. Just because someone is better, more experienced, or has had more time to practice a game than someone else, that doesn't give them the right to even the score through cheating.
I HATE RMT, because it ruins the "level playing field" that a simple FLAT RATE subscription fee provides.
What level playing field? if some 20 year old nerd with no job and some 25 year old with a full time job were playing a game, gamer A has considerably more time to play, how is that a level playing field?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
It's fair. I worked for my money. I paid them. They worked to get the gold. They sold me the gold. They obviously have time that I don't have or am willing to sacrifice from my family.
At the end of the day, if I buy a lvl 10000000000 epic super flying mount that shoots rainbows out it's ass and you work 100 hrs to do the same.... it's none of your damned business if I got mine with RMT or earned it in game.
FFS, the take home from this, is cry me a freakin' river that I have earned every penny in my bank and get to spend it how I say. If I wanna buy 10K gold, that's my problem.
No, thats not fair. To anyone else.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
You won't ever convince them that what they're doing is wrong because they don't care.
I've had a few former friends and guildies that admitted they buy gold and items, use bots and hacks, and exploit when they can. Some people are just like that.
The best thing you can do is shun them.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
Who is robbing who now? WTF are you talking about?
Where exactly do you think they get so many items and gold hmm? Why do you think you get those emails trying to get you to log in. Last I looked, they're called "phishing". Think about it. This gold seller site is accepting money from people who do this and trying to justify it as just being the middle man.
Now... why exactly did you need that explained to you? Why wasn't it obvious to you just reading what I said rather than you needing it spelled out for you? Why exactly did I need to spell it out for you? Here's a suggestion in this world... you might like to try thinking beyond the exact words written on the screen. It will help you a great deal to survive in the world if you can think beyond exactly what you see.
I didn't read the original article fully cause i really don't care who they are or what they do. Im aware of pishing but it more like open email read,laugh and delete. You know where the most hacked accounts come from? Fansites. They are often badly secured and many users use same data as for their wow accounts. But i really don't care about all of that. You see just cause some rob people to resell it doesn't mean the whole market is build of robbers. If there is a guy in another country who makes more money working in a game and selling his virtual currency more power to him for beeing rational. People really shouldn't complain about that when they buy all their clothing produced the same way.
For those who dont know:
Check Return-Path in the email-header to see if it's from the game company If its pishing its mostly flatout aol yahoo or whatever, they rarely mask it
I heard ignorance is a bliss but people here a pushing it to a new limit.
just one thing dude if you shooting rainbow from the arse mount interfere on my gameplay experience then yes its of my damn bussiness, and yes most of phishing was to steal from people who played to sell it to other players or even to the dude who have his account "hacked".
I say it again, all RMT's be it seller or buyer should be perma banned from games, if you want to rmt go find a f2p game who have pay to win items, it have plenty of then and leave our subs AAA games free from this filthy.
I HATE RMT, because it ruins the "level playing field" that a simple FLAT RATE subscription fee provides.
What level playing field? if some 20 year old nerd with no job and some 25 year old with a full time job were playing a game, gamer A has considerably more time to play, how is that a level playing field?
For that matter, show us the prize at the end that this "level playing field" get us. MMOs are just entertainment, not accomplishments. I played UO from 1997 until 2006 and what did it get me?
I compare it going to the movie theater. Everyone pays to see the movie, but just because someone else opted to increase their enjoyment by also buying a coke and popcorn doesn't mean I need to get my panties in a wad and scream "not fair!" THAT and what happens in a video game has zero moral gravity anyway. So what if someone runs a bot. SO WHAT. It's a frigging game. Anyone who loses sleep at night because they think the player next to them has more gold in their bank box and maybe they didn't "earn" it through game labor ( maybe they earned it by flipping burgers in the real world ) - these people are pathetic and they need to get a life. People need to stop being jealous and grow up.
I HATE RMT, because it ruins the "level playing field" that a simple FLAT RATE subscription fee provides.
What level playing field? if some 20 year old nerd with no job and some 25 year old with a full time job were playing a game, gamer A has considerably more time to play, how is that a level playing field?
For that matter, show us the prize at the end that this "level playing field" get us. MMOs are just entertainment, not accomplishments. I played UO from 1997 until 2006 and what did it get me?
I compare it going to the movie theater. Everyone pays to see the movie, but just because someone else opted to increase their enjoyment by also buying a coke and popcorn doesn't mean I need to get my panties in a wad and scream "not fair!" THAT and what happens in a video game has zero moral gravity anyway. So what if someone runs a bot. SO WHAT. It's a frigging game. Anyone who loses sleep at night because they think the player next to them has more gold in their bank box and maybe they didn't "earn" it through game labor ( maybe they earned it by flipping burgers in the real world ) - these people are pathetic and they need to get a life. People need to stop being jealous and grow up.
could tell you the same grow up and stop crying because someone play more the game then you.
like you said its a game, and like all game we hope you play fair, no one would want to see a team in a baseball game, or soccer or whatever you like, use drugs to play better against a team who don't, and try to understand in games who have exploits or bots hacks, what else make you have the edge, kill the honest players enjoyment of the game, kill the economy making anyone who don't cheap or exploit not wanting to play, and that make less people playing, then make less people paying for the game, making it close the server, and all the honest players just start to say about time.
but again now we have games who gather your kind of "play style" go play a f2p game.
and yes about you zero moral gravity, if people cheat in games with by what you say means nothing they will cheat, steal and be dishonest in RL, most of people today do not roleplay, so we can think it part of they personality, so given oportunity, and the no fear of retribution he will be dishonest.
I'm still not sure I understand why everyone's hackles are raised.
Not every company that sells gold is illicitly acquired. Some companies legitimately do have people that sit around raiding and earning cash all day. Yes, they streamline the process to make more and more of it. But game companies put us on little hamster wheels to do the EXACT SAME THING.
Now, game companies have TOS'. Let's be honest, have you read them? Of COURSE they are going to say "oh, that's not allowed". They don't make the money from it. But yet in Eve where you buy a gamecard FROM the company and then SELL it to people for in game cash. PERFECTLY acceptable. No, it's the exact same thing but CCP takes its cut.
When, how is MY buying gold affecting you?! Gold sellers talking to you. Not my fault, not a company I use or support. Ignore them and move on. People manipulating the markets/inflation. Again, not my fault. Games self-induce half that problem themselves. You think ONLY gold sellers were abusing the ToR commendation/item replication? You're kidding yourselves.
Now, let's be totally honest. ANY game that allows ANY item to drop and then allows you to SELL it on ANY AH is unfair by ya'lls definition. If I have a level 80, switch to a lvl 1, give it enough gold to twink it out, and then go into a BG... is that fair? So a my lvl 10 twink versus your lvl 10 new account. Completely fair. Games MANIPULATE the sheep to play to grind out gold. That's how they make the sheeple play their little hamster wheels. Do I feel that all items should be accessible with no effort? No. Do I feel like making me pay for vehicles and other related expenses should take me a long time? No. Having a fair balance of BOPU and items for sale stems most of that. Making me pay 40K for a lvl 25 mount that is the MAJORITY of all gold I worked so hard for in the game up to that point is UNFAIR to us. Nevermind the fact that you then have to pay 200K at lvl 40 and then 300K again at lvl 50.
P.S. To the poster above, you use the baseball example. You mean like how the Yankee's have one of the best funded teams and tend to win the world series over and over and over and over? Or the 90's Bulls? Or the Lakers? Or the Patriots? Manchester United? Or Jose Canseco and his drug use? How about that McGuire and his drug use? Go play F2P... yea because clearly all F2P games have the content that games like ToR have. Look at the new in-app stuff going on in i-Tunes now. Sure, you can take 30 days to get 200K in coins, but for a mere $2 you can have it now.
Now, game companies have TOS'. Let's be honest, have you read them? Of COURSE they are going to say "oh, that's not allowed". They don't make the money from it. But yet in Eve where you buy a gamecard FROM the company and then SELL it to people for in game cash. PERFECTLY acceptable. No, it's the exact same thing but CCP takes its cut.
Now, let's be totally honest. ANY game that allows ANY item to drop and then allows you to SELL it on ANY AH is unfair by ya'lls definition. If I have a level 80, switch to a lvl 1, give it enough gold to twink it out, and then go into a BG... is that fair? So a my lvl 10 twink versus your lvl 10 new account. Completely fair. Games MANIPULATE the sheep to play to grind out gold. That's how they make the sheeple play their little hamster wheels. Do I feel that all items should be accessible with no effort? No. Do I feel like making me pay for vehicles and other related expenses should take me a long time? No. Having a fair balance of BOPU and items for sale stems most of that. Making me pay 40K for a lvl 25 mount that is the MAJORITY of all gold I worked so hard for in the game up to that point is UNFAIR to us.
At EvE yadda yadda: from who exactly you want to be buying time gamecards???? Do you even read what you write or it just flows naturally?? So CCP has a system that allows players to trade game assets inside the game infrastrucure providing players with a fair, safe and legal way to do so, and you compare it to RMT companies?? Man...i..i...oh Jesus our Lord...just shut it plz.
As for the rest, yes you do have a point there. Its not fair to transfer money from you max lvl avatar and get it twinked and trash new players with same level....it is not fair....BUT WHEN THE GOLD COMES FROM YOU BUYING IT FROM RMT COMPANIES MAKES IT ILEGAL AND MAKES YOU A CHEATER......UNDERSTAND????
could tell you the same grow up and stop crying because someone play more the game then you.
like you said its a game, and like all game we hope you play fair, no one would want to see a team in a baseball game, or soccer or whatever you like, use drugs to play better against a team who don't, and try to understand in games who have exploits or bots hacks, what else make you have the edge, kill the honest players enjoyment of the game, kill the economy making anyone who don't cheap or exploit not wanting to play, and that make less people playing, then make less people paying for the game, making it close the server, and all the honest players just start to say about time.
but again now we have games who gather your kind of "play style" go play a f2p game.
and yes about you zero moral gravity, if people cheat in games with by what you say means nothing they will cheat, steal and be dishonest in RL, most of people today do not roleplay, so we can think it part of they personality, so given oportunity, and the no fear of retribution he will be dishonest.
Oh, I am far from crying. I just think you convolute a few issues here, namely that a player who trades away his earned value for cash and then uses that cash to buy other things he needs, perhaps in another game, is somehow less honest than a player who trades away his gold for social consideration in his guild , etc. You can't delegitimize an in-game trade based solely on the type of consideration the seller receives in return without doing so arbitrarily. Game companies have rules against this because 1) they pander to the lowest common denominator ( basically 14-year olds who scream Unfair! ) and 2) they don't want to put themselves in a situation where they are legally and monetarily responsible for your items. So they have a policy that says you don't own any of this stuff are you are not allowed to monetize. There is a bigger picture here, but you won't see it as long as you're thinking "ME ME ME".
Comments
At the end of the day, this article is all about Blizzard's idea to put in RMT AH to make more bucks than box sales alone.
Sorry, you guys might get paid to write up on such articles to sway people's opinions by subliminal sorts of propaganda which make the greedy corporations look like saviours of foreign welfare homes, but I for one wont be buying into this folly.
I will vote with my money and never give my vote to any RMT middleman or buy a game that encourages RMT as a new source of game revenue.
The main reason i think RMT still exist is because of people who rather take a shortcut than actually playing the game. Its obvious that RL takes alot of time and makes it impossible to spend as much time as others to progress in game but thats a given. If you dont work for it ( so to speak ) imo you shouldnt be as well geared as those that do have the time, its just part of the game design thats why FTP trive so much but dont bring that **** into p2p games.
If both sellers and buyers would get banned im sure alot of the RMT would dissapear off most games. i dont think a player would want to lose hundreds of dollars if not thousans over getting caught buying gold.
If your not ready to play by the rules set out for players , look for something else to play. I love when people say get a job like a grown up yet they act like brats who want instant gratification by buying levels / gold off farmers .
Well it's getting a bit heated here so going to try and remain civil Ikeda; just pointing out that whilst you may not personally bot, macro or exploit in your chosen games the gold farmers that you support, (in my personal experience), do tend to bot, macro and exploit.
Incidentally I recommend reading the quoted paper it's rather interesting though heavily biased and poorly referenced, (only work he references in support of his paper is his...own other paper). The author seems to be against companies taking over RMT and in favour of leaving it with the gold farmers as it provides employment to otherwise unemployed young men though there are alot of fluffy statements with no supporting evidence and he himself states that the working conditions are poor.
Edit: That said the paper does a marginally better job of making a (purely ethical) case for gold farming - author of the article probably would've better served his purpose by just quoting the whole paper.
So, in few words, you are a guy willing to break the law or applied rules/agreements on a given context, just because you have the money to do so?
Yes, you are indeed a true capitalist and i must say a politician in the making.
I do find funny when you try to drawn the line between whats "legal" and whats "not legal but can be done" by stating that you know it is not legal to buy game currency, but you still do so because it is a "game".
Im still trying to decide if you are just a troll, or a dumb kid, or in fact the true expression of a low life capitalist pawn.
So, in few words, you are a guy willing to break the law or applied rules/agreements on a given context, just because you have the money to do so?
Yes, you are indeed a true capitalist and i must say a politician in the making.
I do find funny when you try to drawn the line between whats "legal" and whats "not legal but can be done" by stating that you know it is not legal to buy game currency, but you still do so because it is a "game".
Im still trying to decide if you are just a troll, or a dumb kid, or in fact the true expression of a low life capitalist pawn.
It's not law ffsIt just a agreement with a game company
Get on with reality. Breaking their rules is about as much as breaking your mums order to bring out the trash right now.
RMT is perfectly LEGAL . It's just against the TOS. Of course if you live in certain countrys corporate intereset is above peoples interest and it might weight heavier but you know first world countries in europe tend to see it different.
If the game dev really cares he can ban people, but guess what? They dont cause they like their subscription money.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Obviously you don't get it. Cheating is cheating. Attempting to justify it is just ludicrous.
Seriously cheating is never ok. Oh and by the way TOS's have stood up in court cases, it is a contract you agree to, so yes you are essentially breaking a contract which does violate the law.
Agreed, even not all of those TOS would stand in court, some of them have pretty weird things in them. Heh, Mortal online have cut and pasted their from Eve, they even forgot to change CCP to Star vault.
But cheating is bad, M'OKAY?
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Honey, I'm 35 years old. I'm happily married and work full time. Just like you. Once again, thats not fair. I'm sorry, but its not ok to rob people blind while you call it "capitalism" just because you can. Its called morals.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
^^ QFT
No, thats not fair. To anyone else.
You really can't reason with someone who is willing to lie and cheat. That is what RMT is all about. People who buy into RMT don't care if they aren't playing by the rules, if they lie about it, justify cheating with shallow rationalizations, or anything else immoral. They are only concerned about themselves and that is what RMT is all about. That attitude, along with the immoral and illegal activities that support it, are what makes it a detriment to community gaming.
You won't ever convince them that what they're doing is wrong because they don't care.
I've had a few former friends and guildies that admitted they buy gold and items, use bots and hacks, and exploit when they can. Some people are just like that.
The best thing you can do is shun them.
Yeah, and thats the problem. I'm just tired of people thinking robbing others is ok. The way to stop it is standing up to these people. If no one stands up, then nothing ever gets better.
Who is robbing who now? WTF are you talking about?Pi*1337/100 = 42
Capitalist pawn. There are plenty of people out there that truly believe this kind of insanity is right. They are the same reason the rich have seen their profits increase by 40% over the last ten years, while the middle class and poor have seen their incomes go below 1974 levels. Because somewhere along the lines, greed at any cost has become good. It makes me very sad for society.
You know, this happened once before in history. The Romans were the most powerful country in the world, and growing. Until the top became so corrupt and greedy that it destroyed them. While they were bickering amongst each other, trying to find a way to continue their rich life styles while the poor life got worse, the country crashed and burned with invasions from surrounding countries that used to never be able to hold a candle to them.
I'm hoping that these people will wake up before its too late. It's time for the good people to stand up for the rest. Thats why I'm against greed. Expecting that people will suffer so you can rule over them by having more money and stuff is alot worse than expecting to get a fair shake at the world.
Where exactly do you think they get so many items and gold hmm? Why do you think you get those emails trying to get you to log in. Last I looked, they're called "phishing". Think about it. This gold seller site is accepting money from people who do this and trying to justify it as just being the middle man.
Now... why exactly did you need that explained to you? Why wasn't it obvious to you just reading what I said rather than you needing it spelled out for you? Why exactly did I need to spell it out for you? Here's a suggestion in this world... you might like to try thinking beyond the exact words written on the screen. It will help you a great deal to survive in the world if you can think beyond exactly what you see.
I didn't read the original article fully cause i really don't care who they are or what they do. Im aware of pishing but it more like open email read,laugh and delete. You know where the most hacked accounts come from? Fansites. They are often badly secured and many users use same data as for their wow accounts. But i really don't care about all of that. You see just cause some rob people to resell it doesn't mean the whole market is build of robbers. If there is a guy in another country who makes more money working in a game and selling his virtual currency more power to him for beeing rational. People really shouldn't complain about that when they buy all their clothing produced the same way.
For those who dont know:
Check Return-Path in the email-header to see if it's from the game company If its pishing its mostly flatout aol yahoo or whatever, they rarely mask it
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Nice job of ignoring what I said.
I'll go one step further and add that casual players do make a conscious decision to play a game that takes more time than they have to give. If they can't afford the time to play the game without cheating, they shouldn't be playing at all. There are plenty of games to choose from, many of which require almost no time at all to enjoy.
The excuse of "casual gamers get the chance to play with the big boys" is invalid. Just because someone is better, more experienced, or has had more time to practice a game than someone else, that doesn't give them the right to even the score through cheating.
What level playing field? if some 20 year old nerd with no job and some 25 year old with a full time job were playing a game, gamer A has considerably more time to play, how is that a level playing field?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I heard ignorance is a bliss but people here a pushing it to a new limit.
just one thing dude if you shooting rainbow from the arse mount interfere on my gameplay experience then yes its of my damn bussiness, and yes most of phishing was to steal from people who played to sell it to other players or even to the dude who have his account "hacked".
I say it again, all RMT's be it seller or buyer should be perma banned from games, if you want to rmt go find a f2p game who have pay to win items, it have plenty of then and leave our subs AAA games free from this filthy.
For that matter, show us the prize at the end that this "level playing field" get us. MMOs are just entertainment, not accomplishments. I played UO from 1997 until 2006 and what did it get me?
I compare it going to the movie theater. Everyone pays to see the movie, but just because someone else opted to increase their enjoyment by also buying a coke and popcorn doesn't mean I need to get my panties in a wad and scream "not fair!" THAT and what happens in a video game has zero moral gravity anyway. So what if someone runs a bot. SO WHAT. It's a frigging game. Anyone who loses sleep at night because they think the player next to them has more gold in their bank box and maybe they didn't "earn" it through game labor ( maybe they earned it by flipping burgers in the real world ) - these people are pathetic and they need to get a life. People need to stop being jealous and grow up.
could tell you the same grow up and stop crying because someone play more the game then you.
like you said its a game, and like all game we hope you play fair, no one would want to see a team in a baseball game, or soccer or whatever you like, use drugs to play better against a team who don't, and try to understand in games who have exploits or bots hacks, what else make you have the edge, kill the honest players enjoyment of the game, kill the economy making anyone who don't cheap or exploit not wanting to play, and that make less people playing, then make less people paying for the game, making it close the server, and all the honest players just start to say about time.
but again now we have games who gather your kind of "play style" go play a f2p game.
and yes about you zero moral gravity, if people cheat in games with by what you say means nothing they will cheat, steal and be dishonest in RL, most of people today do not roleplay, so we can think it part of they personality, so given oportunity, and the no fear of retribution he will be dishonest.
I'm still not sure I understand why everyone's hackles are raised.
Not every company that sells gold is illicitly acquired. Some companies legitimately do have people that sit around raiding and earning cash all day. Yes, they streamline the process to make more and more of it. But game companies put us on little hamster wheels to do the EXACT SAME THING.
Now, game companies have TOS'. Let's be honest, have you read them? Of COURSE they are going to say "oh, that's not allowed". They don't make the money from it. But yet in Eve where you buy a gamecard FROM the company and then SELL it to people for in game cash. PERFECTLY acceptable. No, it's the exact same thing but CCP takes its cut.
When, how is MY buying gold affecting you?! Gold sellers talking to you. Not my fault, not a company I use or support. Ignore them and move on. People manipulating the markets/inflation. Again, not my fault. Games self-induce half that problem themselves. You think ONLY gold sellers were abusing the ToR commendation/item replication? You're kidding yourselves.
Now, let's be totally honest. ANY game that allows ANY item to drop and then allows you to SELL it on ANY AH is unfair by ya'lls definition. If I have a level 80, switch to a lvl 1, give it enough gold to twink it out, and then go into a BG... is that fair? So a my lvl 10 twink versus your lvl 10 new account. Completely fair. Games MANIPULATE the sheep to play to grind out gold. That's how they make the sheeple play their little hamster wheels. Do I feel that all items should be accessible with no effort? No. Do I feel like making me pay for vehicles and other related expenses should take me a long time? No. Having a fair balance of BOPU and items for sale stems most of that. Making me pay 40K for a lvl 25 mount that is the MAJORITY of all gold I worked so hard for in the game up to that point is UNFAIR to us. Nevermind the fact that you then have to pay 200K at lvl 40 and then 300K again at lvl 50.
P.S. To the poster above, you use the baseball example. You mean like how the Yankee's have one of the best funded teams and tend to win the world series over and over and over and over? Or the 90's Bulls? Or the Lakers? Or the Patriots? Manchester United? Or Jose Canseco and his drug use? How about that McGuire and his drug use? Go play F2P... yea because clearly all F2P games have the content that games like ToR have. Look at the new in-app stuff going on in i-Tunes now. Sure, you can take 30 days to get 200K in coins, but for a mere $2 you can have it now.
At EvE yadda yadda: from who exactly you want to be buying time gamecards???? Do you even read what you write or it just flows naturally?? So CCP has a system that allows players to trade game assets inside the game infrastrucure providing players with a fair, safe and legal way to do so, and you compare it to RMT companies?? Man...i..i...oh Jesus our Lord...just shut it plz.
As for the rest, yes you do have a point there. Its not fair to transfer money from you max lvl avatar and get it twinked and trash new players with same level....it is not fair....BUT WHEN THE GOLD COMES FROM YOU BUYING IT FROM RMT COMPANIES MAKES IT ILEGAL AND MAKES YOU A CHEATER......UNDERSTAND????
Oh, I am far from crying. I just think you convolute a few issues here, namely that a player who trades away his earned value for cash and then uses that cash to buy other things he needs, perhaps in another game, is somehow less honest than a player who trades away his gold for social consideration in his guild , etc. You can't delegitimize an in-game trade based solely on the type of consideration the seller receives in return without doing so arbitrarily. Game companies have rules against this because 1) they pander to the lowest common denominator ( basically 14-year olds who scream Unfair! ) and 2) they don't want to put themselves in a situation where they are legally and monetarily responsible for your items. So they have a policy that says you don't own any of this stuff are you are not allowed to monetize. There is a bigger picture here, but you won't see it as long as you're thinking "ME ME ME".