Can we end this now? It has turned into a debate about Rift vs Guild Wars 2. Answer the question and MOVE ON.
You can't. This was like debating Rift and TOR while TOR was still not released yet. How do you logically debate a myth? I mean have general ideas at best on how any of this is going to work in GW2. One can hope the non-reliance on gear in pvp will make that somewhat better, and we have a general idea about the war fronts and how they will work.
This thread will be easier to take on when GW2 is atleast in beta.
Can we end this now? It has turned into a debate about Rift vs Guild Wars 2. Answer the question and MOVE ON.
You can't. This was like debating Rift and TOR while TOR was still not released yet. How do you logically debate a myth? I mean have general ideas at best on how any of this is going to work in GW2. One can hope the non-reliance on gear in pvp will make that somewhat better, and we have a general idea about the war fronts and how they will work.
This thread will be easier to take on when GW2 is atleast in beta.
So you need a carrot for your pve
Try WoW, you'll love it, or just stick with rift, they both provide carrot too and subcription model to encourage you to go harder. Oo and don't forget those daily quest for those forever_alone.jpg type,
I had to unsubscribe from their mailers, it's obvious they are getting desperate as the email I recieve from them has increased. They offered me a toaster oven if I resubbed!
Try WoW, you'll love it, or just stick with rift, they both provide carrot too and subcription model to encourage you to go harder.
Hey it better then being told to roll a ALT in TOR at end game or being told to wait in GW because content takes forever and a day, then peopleuse the excuse of the great B2P as to why the content is slow.
I might not play WoW anymore because I disagree with what Blizzard has done, but I never disagreed with the carrot. Trion developes so fast you get a new carrot much faster then in WoW. I am looking for my next new carrot when they drop the next world event.
Try WoW, you'll love it, or just stick with rift, they both provide carrot too and subcription model to encourage you to go harder.
Hey it better then being told to roll a ALT in TOR at end game or being told to wait in GW because content takes forever and a day, then peopleuse the excuse of the great B2P as to why the content is slow.
I might not play WoW anymore because I disagree with what Blizzard has done, but I never disagreed with the carrot. Trion developes so fast you get a new carrot much faster then in WoW. I am looking for my next new carrot when they drop the next world event.
Doesn't bode well for GW2 PVP then, seen as RIFT has the worst PVP I have ever played. (and I've played SWTOR, COH & LOTR)
Nah mate don't worry about that. The devs are focusing on both PvE and PvP equally . In fact, from the ground up right from the start, the devs want PvP to be an eSport. So really, they can't afford to stuff PvP up :P
I just think its funny that alot of people think GW2 is the savior of the mmo genre. Ive never seen such blind following in my life. It far out weighs swtor fanboys. Currently playing rift and i love it, re subbed after free weekend. Chronicles, instant adventures, great pvp, world events, artifacts, and achievements make it one of the most content packed games out there. Plusno other dev has pushed out soo much content in such little time. Makes Trion IMO best mmo dev out there.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Try WoW, you'll love it, or just stick with rift, they both provide carrot too and subcription model to encourage you to go harder.
Hey it better then being told to roll a ALT in TOR at end game or being told to wait in GW because content takes forever and a day, then peopleuse the excuse of the great B2P as to why the content is slow.
I might not play WoW anymore because I disagree with what Blizzard has done, but I never disagreed with the carrot. Trion developes so fast you get a new carrot much faster then in WoW. I am looking for my next new carrot when they drop the next world event.
Point of my post is, if you like carrot and gear grinding then go play those game. GW2 is clearly not design for thread mill style grinder. Sorry to dissapoint you but to the rest of us, it's the reason why we celebrate the game. If you're wondering how a game would be without gear grinding, check out gw1 cos it's hard to describe how the sky looks like to someone who've never seen 1 before.
OMG this made me laugh. I don't mind trying to get the point across with smaller words to help those that struggle to grasp the concepts, but when trying to communicate with a mentally handicapped person so that he understands that the cookie isn't a lie, there is always the risk of big brother ban hammer coming through and dealing out justice as they see fit regardless of how well stated or well intended your discussion was.
So now I picture it as me walking up to Purm and pushing back that helmet and looking him square in the eye and trying to give him a chocolate chip cookie. Lets go one step further and make it a WhoNu which is loaded with nutrition all the while his mother is staring daggers at me. Kinda makes it uncomfortable even though others around are thinking what a nice man. Now will I be seen as the nice man giving Purm a daily dose of fiber and calcium, or will I be seen as the stranger who looks like he is giving Purm a cookie for being able to strap on his big boy shoes in a condescending manner? This is all figuratively speaking of course.
@Eir_S Glad somebody gets what I am trying to get across. For Puremallace to think that GW2 is copying from Rifts is crazy. There are a lot of other differences but that was the first example that came to mind. Rifts were a nice distraction from the quest hub grinding and nothing more and more often than not they were a cause of problems rather than a cure.
Or.... could be... he's just not buying into the marketing rhetoric, instead he is looking at it from a perspective of what has come before. Which is perfectly understandable.
You guys act as though everything said by A-net is some sort of undeniable fact, nothing they say about DE's could possibly be overstated, the game-changer aspect is unquestionable.
How can anyone honestly sit here and say what DE's are actually like? The only info there is on them is what has been shown by Anet who controls the way in which they're shown. As we've seen time and time again in MMO land, things aren't always as "brilliant" as they seem.
Not sure why you quoted that one but I'll run with it. So he got the perspective that Anet is copying everything from Rift and that they will be stealing the idea of the "Join public group" button in the near future. He also stated that the DE's give nothing and will serve no purpose whatsoever in the game. He also stated that they designed the whole idea of having no dedicated healers and tanks merely because they were too lazy to blance classes that. Lets add that no PvPrs are going to stay and play because Anet didn't include a hampster wheel for gear there either. And lets top it off by him stating that even in TOR there are angry fans complaining that features Rifts has TOR lacks and even that game is stealing ideas. So all this is perfectly understandable there Distopia? It is clear from his history that he loves the game but just about everything I just recapped that he has said has been wrong or is speculation based on wrong information that anyone can prove.
And on the counter side we should all doubt everything that has been said and shown because we are blinded and incapable of remembering what Anet has said and what some of the crazy fans have said will be in the game? Now we are to beleive that Anet has not only stated the purpose of DE's and what they want the game to play like, but they have also staged this on multiple expos only to fool the fans into beleiving everything they say? All smoke and mirrors I guess and yet some of the fans are the ones that are being unreasonable? Yes it is possible to over sell what the game will offer but I do try to stick with what has been shown and not what they hope to accomplish.
Not everyone beleives everything Anet says is going to come true because some of what they say are things they hope to do. The point is that we are still today comparing Rifts rifts with GW2's DE's and thats sad because it has been explained quite well on many occasions. But to claim that they are stealing their ideas and are going to blueprint their game after Rift is hysterical. And for someone to call that perfectly understandable is silly as well.
Look I can sit here and say I am going to make this great sandbox mmo, unbelievable story that is great, drungeon that have like 4 versions, so like 8 = 32 now and there crazy dynamic, then you got like 1,000 dynamic events that rarely repeat and is just so amazing. Then you got Korean style battle graphics and skills that are crazy and arrows you shoot through fire and the arrow catches and it is crazy dynamic.
My point stands. It means JACK SHIT until they actually do it. In this genre seeing is believing and TOR should prove one thing. MMO players do not have the patience anymore for being told "that feature will be in soon after launch". Either launch a complete game or post pone the damn launch.
Only time I ever saw Rift not releasing content was during the first month when they had the security concerns, but even then they dropped content. Now Trion has been overly proactive about changing classes, but every patch since release has been mostly content. They did not have to go redesign the UI to actually work or put macros. This is all BETA crap like a combatlog or AntiAliasing system that works.
If GW2 waits this long to launch and it launches half ass the backlash will be worse then TOR by a mile. I mean GW2 fans are saying it is fanatics feeding this Second coming of Jesus crap, but ArenaNET is not exactly helping when they do interviews or gamescon. Do any of you actually read half the stuff they say? "Like nothing you have seen before...completely revolutionary....risk taking and amazing new content". Bioware claimed some crap about pvp that is biting thm HARDDDD now, but most of their claims were Story. That is just two things.
Rift sets a simple groundwork for what works and what does not in a game that claims to be dynamic.
Look I can sit here and say I am going to make this great sandbox mmo, unbelievable story that is great, drungeon that have like 4 versions, so like 8 = 32 now and there crazy dynamic, then you got like 1,000 dynamic events that rarely repeat and is just so amazing. Then you got Korean style battle graphics and skills that are crazy and arrows you shoot through fire and the arrow catches and it is crazy dynamic.
My point stands. It means JACK SHIT until they actually do it. In this genre seeing is believing and TOR should prove one thing. MMO players do not have the patience anymore for being told "that feature will be in soon after launch". Either launch a complete game or post pone the damn launch.
Only time I ever saw Rift not releasing content was during the first month when they had the security concerns, but even then they dropped content. Now Trion has been overly proactive about changing classes, but every patch since release has been mostly content. They did not have to go redesign the UI to actually work or put macros. This is all BETA crap like a combatlog or AntiAliasing system that works.
If GW2 waits this long to launch and it launches half ass the backlash will be worse then TOR by a mile. I mean GW2 fans are saying it is fanatics feeding this Second coming of Jesus crap, but ArenaNET is not exactly helping when they do interviews or gamescon. Do any of you actually read half the stuff they say? "Like nothing you have seen before...completely revolutionary....risk taking and amazing new content". Bioware claimed some crap about pvp that is biting thm HARDDDD now, but most of their claims were Story. That is just two things.
Rift sets a simple groundwork for what works and what does not in a game that claims to be dynamic.
[Mod Edit]
Yeah but... that stuff is actually in game... like you can go watch videos of it. It's not something "promised" and then you pick up the game and its not there. It's not like "hey there is world pvp" and then you pick up the game and realized that their actually isnt.
Anything that arena net has said will be in game is working and you can probably find a video of it somewhere on youtube of it working.
That is the biggest difference between this hype and hype for previous games..... despite how much we bitch and moan Anet wont tell us jack shit unless its already polished and implemented.
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
Yeah but... that stuff is actually in game... like you can go watch videos of it. It's not something "promised" and then you pick up the game and its not there. It's not like "hey there is world pvp" and then you pick up the game and realized that their actually isnt.
Anything that arena net has said will be in game is working and you can probably find a video of it somewhere on youtube of it working.
That is the biggest difference between this hype and hype for previous games..... despite how much we bitch and moan Anet wont tell us jack shit unless its already polished and implemented.
Ok like I said you put a 100 people on a screen in GW2 and not have ungodly Aion style lag, then I will kiss the lead developer of ArenaNETS ass because he just invented quantum computing and the world will change tommorow.
I look at GW2 and I see a HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY HEAVYYYYYYYYYYY NCSoft influence. If you played AIon for any period of time some of that stuff just screams Korean style graphics. They say stuff, but mmo players are extremely efficient in finding the fastest way to exploit or finish a goal. Battlemaster in TOR proves this because I know damn well Bioware never expected people to cap it so fast.
You can say something and do a demo with 5 people or 10, but in live it does something completely different. If you listen to anything Gabe Amatangelo said about Ilum before it launched he said "with the way the zone is designed the other faction can have more players and it would not matter".
It goes back to fact you can't compare Rift with a game labeled as the second coming of Ultima Online or DAoC. Noone can compete with that. If they pull it off, then that would be outstanding, but I do not buy into the hype anymore.
I hope GW2 is nothing like Rift. Rift was very well polished, I will give it that. But it got boring very quick, and the combat was so blah. The different combat abilitys all seemed the same, and I've never seen quest text that you just wanted to skip as quick as possible. Rift, while not bad, seemed to so similar to other games. Except the rift idea.
GW2 looks like its going to gamble on alot of innovation and uniqueness, hopefully.
im a fan of GW2 and Rift is among the last games i would play while GW2 releases.... I dont know if you (OP) say the closest thing because of the dynamic events... but it is far from close to gw2.... Rift is just not enough to keep me playing after couple days getting bored
edit: i love the graphics and the soul system, but apparently Trion dislikes people who roll alts..... so im out
Ok like I said you put a 100 people on a screen in GW2 and not have ungodly Aion style lag, then I will kiss the lead developer of ArenaNETS ass because he just invented quantum computing and the world will change tommorow.
I look at GW2 and I see a HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY HEAVYYYYYYYYYYY NCSoft influence. If you played AIon for any period of time some of that stuff just screams Korean style graphics. They say stuff, but mmo players are extremely efficient in finding the fastest way to exploit or finish a goal. Battlemaster in TOR proves this because I know damn well Bioware never expected people to cap it so fast.
You can say something and do a demo with 5 people or 10, but in live it does something completely different. If you listen to anything Gabe Amatangelo said about Ilum before it launched he said "with the way the zone is designed the other faction can have more players and it would not matter".
It goes back to fact you can't compare Rift with a game labeled as the second coming of Ultima Online or DAoC. Noone can compete with that. If they pull it off, then that would be outstanding, but I do not buy into the hype anymore.
I can't find any flaws in your argument sir... so therefor I will concede to your skepticism.
All I know is that I was at PAX and I played the demo there and I played the SWTOR demo as well as the beta and GW2 just gave me that feeling of "this is it".
I can't argue based on a gut feeling. Im sure that the game won't run 100% flawless. I do know that what I have seen works beautifully and ANet says they are capable of holding 500 per map at this present time but are hoping to increase the number with a couple more optimization passes. Everything they have told me thus far I have seen working... so we will just have to see.
As for the NCSoft influence... I don't really see it to much. The Korean demo seemed like it had been "koreanized" a bit to appeal to that audience but GW1 wasnt a hit with them so I can see why they would at least try.
If i had to say the game looks like anything I would say Fable maybe? Other than that it looks pretty unique
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
Yeah but... that stuff is actually in game... like you can go watch videos of it. It's not something "promised" and then you pick up the game and its not there. It's not like "hey there is world pvp" and then you pick up the game and realized that their actually isnt.
Anything that arena net has said will be in game is working and you can probably find a video of it somewhere on youtube of it working.
That is the biggest difference between this hype and hype for previous games..... despite how much we bitch and moan Anet wont tell us jack shit unless its already polished and implemented.
Ok like I said you put a 100 people on a screen in GW2 and not have ungodly Aion style lag, then I will kiss the lead developer of ArenaNETS ass because he just invented quantum computing and the world will change tommorow.
-snip-
You can say something and do a demo with 5 people or 10, but in live it does something completely different. If you listen to anything Gabe Amatangelo said about Ilum before it launched he said "with the way the zone is designed the other faction can have more players and it would not matter".
Ok like I said you put a 100 people on a screen in GW2 and not have ungodly Aion style lag, then I will kiss the lead developer of ArenaNETS ass because he just invented quantum computing and the world will change tommorow.
OK, so GW had 100 people running around in a zone 6 years ago and there wasn't a problem with lag. I would think they've improved the technology a bit since then.
I look at GW2 and I see a HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY HEAVYYYYYYYYYYY NCSoft influence. If you played AIon for any period of time some of that stuff just screams Korean style graphics. They say stuff, but mmo players are extremely efficient in finding the fastest way to exploit or finish a goal. Battlemaster in TOR proves this because I know damn well Bioware never expected people to cap it so fast.
This paragraph makes no sense. I would highly recommend that if you are trying to make a point, start by making sense.
You can say something and do a demo with 5 people or 10, but in live it does something completely different. If you listen to anything Gabe Amatangelo said about Ilum before it launched he said "with the way the zone is designed the other faction can have more players and it would not matter".
So because someone else said something about something completely different, therefore Anet is lying?
It goes back to fact you can't compare Rift with a game labeled as the second coming of Ultima Online or DAoC. Noone can compete with that. If they pull it off, then that would be outstanding, but I do not buy into the hype anymore.
People have labeled it as the second coming of Ultima Online? I'd have to think you're the first to make that call.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Not sure why you quoted that one but I'll run with it. So he got the perspective that Anet is copying everything from Rift and that they will be stealing the idea of the "Join public group" button in the near future. He also stated that the DE's give nothing and will serve no purpose whatsoever in the game. He also stated that they designed the whole idea of having no dedicated healers and tanks merely because they were too lazy to blance classes that. Lets add that no PvPrs are going to stay and play because Anet didn't include a hampster wheel for gear there either. And lets top it off by him stating that even in TOR there are angry fans complaining that features Rifts has TOR lacks and even that game is stealing ideas. So all this is perfectly understandable there Distopia? It is clear from his history that he loves the game but just about everything I just recapped that he has said has been wrong or is speculation based on wrong information that anyone can prove.
And on the counter side we should all doubt everything that has been said and shown because we are blinded and incapable of remembering what Anet has said and what some of the crazy fans have said will be in the game? Now we are to beleive that Anet has not only stated the purpose of DE's and what they want the game to play like, but they have also staged this on multiple expos only to fool the fans into beleiving everything they say? All smoke and mirrors I guess and yet some of the fans are the ones that are being unreasonable? Yes it is possible to over sell what the game will offer but I do try to stick with what has been shown and not what they hope to accomplish.
Not everyone beleives everything Anet says is going to come true because some of what they say are things they hope to do. The point is that we are still today comparing Rifts rifts with GW2's DE's and thats sad because it has been explained quite well on many occasions. But to claim that they are stealing their ideas and are going to blueprint their game after Rift is hysterical. And for someone to call that perfectly understandable is silly as well.
I did have both of you quoted (you as well as Eye) but it was far too long when previewed, not to mention the content of Eye's post.
My point is how do we know regardless of the differences (on paper), how similar they will actually play to each other? What is the major difference? Execution seems to be the major one to me, that doesn't mean playing a DE won't feel close to how it feels to play within a Rift invasion. Of course there's no proof that it will either. That's the problem with speaking about things we really don't know.
Was his wording and reasoning sound? IMO no, but I'm not going to sit here and ridicule the guy or passively attack him. Which is what sparked my response to you to begin with.
I didn't say everything Purm was saying may be true, only that his comparison may be. ANd yes even his statements about TOR are partially true as there are many requests for features that are in Rift to be added to TOR, such as dungeon finder systems.
The guy is a major fan of Rift that much is clear, that doesn't mean he's completely wrong about what he thinks DE's are going to be. I've noticed a tendency for GW2 fans to get very deffensive when anyone compares DE's to anything already established, when all we have to go on about them is what A-net has shown in controlled environments, these demo's don't show anyone how these things will playout in the grand scheme of the things.
So yes, using pre-existing systems that sound similar is understandable to me, when trying to make a guess as to what the experience is going to be. A few impressions from minutes of demo play doesn't change that, just look at the the impressions when it came to TOR demos before launch, those reactions are nothing like the reactions we've seen post launch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I did have both of you quoted (you as well as Eye) but it was far too long when previewed, not to mention the content of Eye's post.
My point is how do we know regardless of the differences (on paper), how similar they will actually play to each other? What is the major difference? Execution seems to be the major one to me, that doesn't mean playing a DE won't feel close to how it feels to play within a Rift invasion. Of course there's no proof that it will either. That's the problem with speaking about things we really don't know.
Was his wording and reasoning sound? IMO no, but I'm not going to sit here and ridicule the guy or passively attack him. Which is what sparked my response to you to begin with.
I didn't say everything Purm was saying may be true, only that his comparison may be. ANd yes even his statements about TOR are partially true as there are many requests for features that are in Rift to be added to TOR, such as dungeon finder systems.
The guy is a major fan of Rift that much is clear, that doesn't mean he's completely wrong about what he thinks DE's are going to be. I've noticed a tendency for GW2 fans to get very deffensive when anyone compares DE's to anything already established, when all we have to go on about them is what A-net has shown in controlled environments, these demo's don't show anyone how these things will playout in the grand scheme of the things.
So yes, using pre-existing systems that sound similar is understandable to me, when trying to make a guess as to what the experience is going to be. A few impressions from minutes of demo play doesn't change that, just look at the the impressions when it came to TOR demos before launch, those reactions are nothing like the reactions we've seen post launch.
We do know it will play a different way because 1) I gave an example of rifts not scaling where it became more of a problem due to lack or participants . 2) DE's are the main frive behind the exp and I don't need to see it to know that is what the game was going for as to where Rifts has the rifts as an attraction on top of their quest grinding. 3) Sheer number of DE's alone compared to the variations of rifts, enough said on regards to rifts being the same as DE's. The demos alone have shown more variety in the DE's than all of the rifts and they have multiple paths. If they didn't then the devs flat out lied. I beleive this even though I havent seen the same DE won and lost.
If you read my many posts I have contributed to this topic already you will see I wasn't getting defensive to the comparison, I was only pointing out that he was wrong on things that anyone can look up. The rest was just bad speculation. To say that the things he says about TOR are true is not accurate either. He claims that fans are in game complaining and comparing it to Rift and I pointed out that I have heard the game compared to the game Rifts tried to clone WoW. Maybe they are wanting a dungeon finder tool but it isnt a stolen idea and it didnt come form rift. SO yeah he was wrong there as well.
Yes the demos are controlled environments but do you really think they are going to show a demo of the game that is way off from the base? Do you really beleive they are going to say that stuff is only showed if it is in game and working when it's not? To what gain? I can understand skepticism and I think that's healthy, but I don't think going around thinking every detail Anet says is a lie. Hell, sell the idea of your product sure, but if you lie then there will be backlash and I don't see a reason to.
Either way you look at it, I have tried explaining it to him. If someone is so set against the game there really is no point. Ok so you can see where a comparison of Rifts to GW2's DE's, but that is one small aspect of the entire game and the rest is nothing alike as many have pointed out. But to claim that GW2 and TOR are ripoffs of his beloved Rifts is silly and you can try to dress those words up any way you like, it's still reddiculoue.
We do know it will play a different way because 1) I gave an example of rifts not scaling where it became more of a problem . 2) DE's are the main frive behind the exp and I don't need to see it to know that is what the game was going for as to where Rifts has the rifts as an attraction on top of their quest grinding. 3) Sheer number of DE's alone compared to the variations of rifts, enough said on regards to rifts being the same as DE's.
If you read my many posts I have contributed to this topic already you will see I wasn't getting defensive to the comparison, I was only pointing out that he was wrong on things that anyone can look up. The rest was just bad speculation. To say that the things he sais abput TOR are true is not accurate either. He claims that fans are in game complaining and comparing it to Rift and I pointed out that I have heard the game compared to the game Rifts tried to clone WoW. Maybe they are wanting a dungeon finder tool but it isnt a stolen idea and it didnt come form rift. SO yeah he was wrong there as well.
Yes the demos are controlled environments but do you really think they are going to show a demo of the game that is way off from the base? Do you really beleive they are going to say that stuff is only showed if it is in game and working when it's not? To what gain? I can understand skepticism and I think that's healthy, but I don't think going around thinking every detail Anet says is a lie. Hell, sell the idea of your product sure, but if you lie then there will be backlash and I don't see a reason to.
Either way you look at it I have tried explaining it to him. If someone is so set against the game there really is no point. Ok so you can see where a comparison of Rifts to GW2's DE's, but that is one small aspect of the entire game and the rest is nothing alike as many have pointed out. But to claim that GW2 and TOR are ripoffs of his beloved Rifts is silly and you can try to dress those words up any way you like, it's still reddiculoue.
Fair enough I can't argue about anything here regarding GW2 because I really don't know.
The only thing I can say is it really doesn't mean they'd be "lying" if DE's are similar to Rifts, they really never said they weren't. And you're right that DE's are implemented far differently than rifts have been in Rift. DE's are the major PVE attraction, and to me they sound rather fun, more fun than Rifts, or rather GW2 sounds far more fun than Rift felt to me when I gave it a spin. I will have to play to make the final verdict on that of course.
I never said what he said about TOR was true, nor GW2, I actually said his wording and reasoning were things I didn't agree with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First I have to say that I have never played Rift or the GW2 demo.
But from what I have seen and read I think there are a big diferrence in the DE's in both game.
I think that the personal story in GW2 will help you to learn about the conflicts and other races in the GW2 world.
By doing so you know why the centaurs are attacking the human village, because the centaurs want to get their lost land back. And therefore the DE's in GW2 makes more sence.
Also the outcome of one DE in GW2 may trigger an other DE nearby. If you in the game can sence that what is happening is all logic and natural then I think you better feel the world is alive.
In Rift the DE seems to be a bit random and without the same logic. As I understand it the rifts are invasions from an other dimension. I don't know why they want to invade and it seems to be bad planned and without much success.
I don't think there is a single game that comes close to GW2 in general.
I guess GW2 will be released in May or so and If you are waiting for that game, just do what it is most fun for you, related to GW2 or not.
Try WoW, you'll love it, or just stick with rift, they both provide carrot too and subcription model to encourage you to go harder.
Hey it better then being told to roll a ALT in TOR at end game or being told to wait in GW because content takes forever and a day, then peopleuse the excuse of the great B2P as to why the content is slow.
I might not play WoW anymore because I disagree with what Blizzard has done, but I never disagreed with the carrot. Trion developes so fast you get a new carrot much faster then in WoW. I am looking for my next new carrot when they drop the next world event.
Thats because the carrot they provided last time was so easy to get that they HAD to pump out new content to keep players happy. And the carrot befor that was even easier then that to get. Trion is very good at pumping out content this much is true. But the content there pumping out is childs play and doable is a day or so.
Trion is the Geico of MMOs. So easy a caveman can do it.
Comments
Forgotten what the question was already. Just here enjoying the show.
You can't. This was like debating Rift and TOR while TOR was still not released yet. How do you logically debate a myth? I mean have general ideas at best on how any of this is going to work in GW2. One can hope the non-reliance on gear in pvp will make that somewhat better, and we have a general idea about the war fronts and how they will work.
This thread will be easier to take on when GW2 is atleast in beta.
So you need a carrot for your pve
Try WoW, you'll love it, or just stick with rift, they both provide carrot too and subcription model to encourage you to go harder. Oo and don't forget those daily quest for those forever_alone.jpg type,
I had to unsubscribe from their mailers, it's obvious they are getting desperate as the email I recieve from them has increased. They offered me a toaster oven if I resubbed!
Hey it better then being told to roll a ALT in TOR at end game or being told to wait in GW because content takes forever and a day, then peopleuse the excuse of the great B2P as to why the content is slow.
I might not play WoW anymore because I disagree with what Blizzard has done, but I never disagreed with the carrot. Trion developes so fast you get a new carrot much faster then in WoW. I am looking for my next new carrot when they drop the next world event.
I hate carrots, love green beans.
Nah mate don't worry about that. The devs are focusing on both PvE and PvP equally
. In fact, from the ground up right from the start, the devs want PvP to be an eSport. So really, they can't afford to stuff PvP up :P
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
I just think its funny that alot of people think GW2 is the savior of the mmo genre. Ive never seen such blind following in my life. It far out weighs swtor fanboys. Currently playing rift and i love it, re subbed after free weekend. Chronicles, instant adventures, great pvp, world events, artifacts, and achievements make it one of the most content packed games out there. Plusno other dev has pushed out soo much content in such little time. Makes Trion IMO best mmo dev out there.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Point of my post is, if you like carrot and gear grinding then go play those game. GW2 is clearly not design for thread mill style grinder. Sorry to dissapoint you but to the rest of us, it's the reason why we celebrate the game. If you're wondering how a game would be without gear grinding, check out gw1 cos it's hard to describe how the sky looks like to someone who've never seen 1 before.
Not sure why you quoted that one but I'll run with it. So he got the perspective that Anet is copying everything from Rift and that they will be stealing the idea of the "Join public group" button in the near future. He also stated that the DE's give nothing and will serve no purpose whatsoever in the game. He also stated that they designed the whole idea of having no dedicated healers and tanks merely because they were too lazy to blance classes that. Lets add that no PvPrs are going to stay and play because Anet didn't include a hampster wheel for gear there either. And lets top it off by him stating that even in TOR there are angry fans complaining that features Rifts has TOR lacks and even that game is stealing ideas. So all this is perfectly understandable there Distopia? It is clear from his history that he loves the game but just about everything I just recapped that he has said has been wrong or is speculation based on wrong information that anyone can prove.
And on the counter side we should all doubt everything that has been said and shown because we are blinded and incapable of remembering what Anet has said and what some of the crazy fans have said will be in the game? Now we are to beleive that Anet has not only stated the purpose of DE's and what they want the game to play like, but they have also staged this on multiple expos only to fool the fans into beleiving everything they say? All smoke and mirrors I guess and yet some of the fans are the ones that are being unreasonable? Yes it is possible to over sell what the game will offer but I do try to stick with what has been shown and not what they hope to accomplish.
Not everyone beleives everything Anet says is going to come true because some of what they say are things they hope to do. The point is that we are still today comparing Rifts rifts with GW2's DE's and thats sad because it has been explained quite well on many occasions. But to claim that they are stealing their ideas and are going to blueprint their game after Rift is hysterical. And for someone to call that perfectly understandable is silly as well.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Look I can sit here and say I am going to make this great sandbox mmo, unbelievable story that is great, drungeon that have like 4 versions, so like 8 = 32 now and there crazy dynamic, then you got like 1,000 dynamic events that rarely repeat and is just so amazing. Then you got Korean style battle graphics and skills that are crazy and arrows you shoot through fire and the arrow catches and it is crazy dynamic.
My point stands. It means JACK SHIT until they actually do it. In this genre seeing is believing and TOR should prove one thing. MMO players do not have the patience anymore for being told "that feature will be in soon after launch". Either launch a complete game or post pone the damn launch.
Only time I ever saw Rift not releasing content was during the first month when they had the security concerns, but even then they dropped content. Now Trion has been overly proactive about changing classes, but every patch since release has been mostly content. They did not have to go redesign the UI to actually work or put macros. This is all BETA crap like a combatlog or AntiAliasing system that works.
If GW2 waits this long to launch and it launches half ass the backlash will be worse then TOR by a mile. I mean GW2 fans are saying it is fanatics feeding this Second coming of Jesus crap, but ArenaNET is not exactly helping when they do interviews or gamescon. Do any of you actually read half the stuff they say? "Like nothing you have seen before...completely revolutionary....risk taking and amazing new content". Bioware claimed some crap about pvp that is biting thm HARDDDD now, but most of their claims were Story. That is just two things.
Rift sets a simple groundwork for what works and what does not in a game that claims to be dynamic.
[Mod Edit]
Yeah but... that stuff is actually in game... like you can go watch videos of it. It's not something "promised" and then you pick up the game and its not there. It's not like "hey there is world pvp" and then you pick up the game and realized that their actually isnt.
Anything that arena net has said will be in game is working and you can probably find a video of it somewhere on youtube of it working.
That is the biggest difference between this hype and hype for previous games..... despite how much we bitch and moan Anet wont tell us jack shit unless its already polished and implemented.
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
Ok like I said you put a 100 people on a screen in GW2 and not have ungodly Aion style lag, then I will kiss the lead developer of ArenaNETS ass because he just invented quantum computing and the world will change tommorow.
I look at GW2 and I see a HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY HEAVYYYYYYYYYYY NCSoft influence. If you played AIon for any period of time some of that stuff just screams Korean style graphics. They say stuff, but mmo players are extremely efficient in finding the fastest way to exploit or finish a goal. Battlemaster in TOR proves this because I know damn well Bioware never expected people to cap it so fast.
You can say something and do a demo with 5 people or 10, but in live it does something completely different. If you listen to anything Gabe Amatangelo said about Ilum before it launched he said "with the way the zone is designed the other faction can have more players and it would not matter".
It goes back to fact you can't compare Rift with a game labeled as the second coming of Ultima Online or DAoC. Noone can compete with that. If they pull it off, then that would be outstanding, but I do not buy into the hype anymore.
I hope GW2 is nothing like Rift. Rift was very well polished, I will give it that. But it got boring very quick, and the combat was so blah. The different combat abilitys all seemed the same, and I've never seen quest text that you just wanted to skip as quick as possible. Rift, while not bad, seemed to so similar to other games. Except the rift idea.
GW2 looks like its going to gamble on alot of innovation and uniqueness, hopefully.
Yea, I hope not cos P2P Rift feels like a F2P MMO in my opinion.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
im a fan of GW2 and Rift is among the last games i would play while GW2 releases.... I dont know if you (OP) say the closest thing because of the dynamic events... but it is far from close to gw2.... Rift is just not enough to keep me playing after couple days getting bored
edit: i love the graphics and the soul system, but apparently Trion dislikes people who roll alts..... so im out
I can't find any flaws in your argument sir... so therefor I will concede to your skepticism.
All I know is that I was at PAX and I played the demo there and I played the SWTOR demo as well as the beta and GW2 just gave me that feeling of "this is it".
I can't argue based on a gut feeling. Im sure that the game won't run 100% flawless. I do know that what I have seen works beautifully and ANet says they are capable of holding 500 per map at this present time but are hoping to increase the number with a couple more optimization passes. Everything they have told me thus far I have seen working... so we will just have to see.
As for the NCSoft influence... I don't really see it to much. The Korean demo seemed like it had been "koreanized" a bit to appeal to that audience but GW1 wasnt a hit with them so I can see why they would at least try.
If i had to say the game looks like anything I would say Fable maybe? Other than that it looks pretty unique
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRdSy0KkUE
and this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpZjPktX_RU
see you in game.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I did have both of you quoted (you as well as Eye) but it was far too long when previewed, not to mention the content of Eye's post.
My point is how do we know regardless of the differences (on paper), how similar they will actually play to each other? What is the major difference? Execution seems to be the major one to me, that doesn't mean playing a DE won't feel close to how it feels to play within a Rift invasion. Of course there's no proof that it will either. That's the problem with speaking about things we really don't know.
Was his wording and reasoning sound? IMO no, but I'm not going to sit here and ridicule the guy or passively attack him. Which is what sparked my response to you to begin with.
I didn't say everything Purm was saying may be true, only that his comparison may be. ANd yes even his statements about TOR are partially true as there are many requests for features that are in Rift to be added to TOR, such as dungeon finder systems.
The guy is a major fan of Rift that much is clear, that doesn't mean he's completely wrong about what he thinks DE's are going to be. I've noticed a tendency for GW2 fans to get very deffensive when anyone compares DE's to anything already established, when all we have to go on about them is what A-net has shown in controlled environments, these demo's don't show anyone how these things will playout in the grand scheme of the things.
So yes, using pre-existing systems that sound similar is understandable to me, when trying to make a guess as to what the experience is going to be. A few impressions from minutes of demo play doesn't change that, just look at the the impressions when it came to TOR demos before launch, those reactions are nothing like the reactions we've seen post launch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We do know it will play a different way because 1) I gave an example of rifts not scaling where it became more of a problem due to lack or participants . 2) DE's are the main frive behind the exp and I don't need to see it to know that is what the game was going for as to where Rifts has the rifts as an attraction on top of their quest grinding. 3) Sheer number of DE's alone compared to the variations of rifts, enough said on regards to rifts being the same as DE's. The demos alone have shown more variety in the DE's than all of the rifts and they have multiple paths. If they didn't then the devs flat out lied. I beleive this even though I havent seen the same DE won and lost.
If you read my many posts I have contributed to this topic already you will see I wasn't getting defensive to the comparison, I was only pointing out that he was wrong on things that anyone can look up. The rest was just bad speculation. To say that the things he says about TOR are true is not accurate either. He claims that fans are in game complaining and comparing it to Rift and I pointed out that I have heard the game compared to the game Rifts tried to clone WoW. Maybe they are wanting a dungeon finder tool but it isnt a stolen idea and it didnt come form rift. SO yeah he was wrong there as well.
Yes the demos are controlled environments but do you really think they are going to show a demo of the game that is way off from the base? Do you really beleive they are going to say that stuff is only showed if it is in game and working when it's not? To what gain? I can understand skepticism and I think that's healthy, but I don't think going around thinking every detail Anet says is a lie. Hell, sell the idea of your product sure, but if you lie then there will be backlash and I don't see a reason to.
Either way you look at it, I have tried explaining it to him. If someone is so set against the game there really is no point. Ok so you can see where a comparison of Rifts to GW2's DE's, but that is one small aspect of the entire game and the rest is nothing alike as many have pointed out. But to claim that GW2 and TOR are ripoffs of his beloved Rifts is silly and you can try to dress those words up any way you like, it's still reddiculoue.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Fair enough I can't argue about anything here regarding GW2 because I really don't know.
The only thing I can say is it really doesn't mean they'd be "lying" if DE's are similar to Rifts, they really never said they weren't. And you're right that DE's are implemented far differently than rifts have been in Rift. DE's are the major PVE attraction, and to me they sound rather fun, more fun than Rifts, or rather GW2 sounds far more fun than Rift felt to me when I gave it a spin. I will have to play to make the final verdict on that of course.
I never said what he said about TOR was true, nor GW2, I actually said his wording and reasoning were things I didn't agree with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
NO!
Rift is closer to WoW than it is to Guild Wars.
Undeniable fact!
First I have to say that I have never played Rift or the GW2 demo.
But from what I have seen and read I think there are a big diferrence in the DE's in both game.
I think that the personal story in GW2 will help you to learn about the conflicts and other races in the GW2 world.
By doing so you know why the centaurs are attacking the human village, because the centaurs want to get their lost land back. And therefore the DE's in GW2 makes more sence.
Also the outcome of one DE in GW2 may trigger an other DE nearby. If you in the game can sence that what is happening is all logic and natural then I think you better feel the world is alive.
In Rift the DE seems to be a bit random and without the same logic. As I understand it the rifts are invasions from an other dimension. I don't know why they want to invade and it seems to be bad planned and without much success.
I don't think there is a single game that comes close to GW2 in general.
I guess GW2 will be released in May or so and If you are waiting for that game, just do what it is most fun for you, related to GW2 or not.
Thats because the carrot they provided last time was so easy to get that they HAD to pump out new content to keep players happy. And the carrot befor that was even easier then that to get. Trion is very good at pumping out content this much is true. But the content there pumping out is childs play and doable is a day or so.
Trion is the Geico of MMOs. So easy a caveman can do it.