Just because something is hyped up doesn't mean it's not warranted. GW2 is hyped up and deservedly so.
Yeah...exactly.
Overhyped is when you have a bunch of expectations with no real grounding in demonstrated fact. Like if a developer just shows you an OMFG AWESOME cinematic and you think the game is going to rule because of that. The cinematic has NO BEARING on the gameplay whatsoever, so this is overhype.
Another example would be if a developer has an OMFG AWESOME feature list on their webpage with some very tailored screenshots to illustrate their OMFG AWESOME features. The problem here is that you have no proof they've actually implemented the OMFG AWESOME features. They have not been demonstrated, they are just a concept. If you get all excited about this with no proof...then this is overhype.
But when a developer brings their game to a very public convention and demonstrates all their ideas by having people actually PLAY the REAL GAME. Then getting excited about this isn't really overhype, so long as you're just excited about that which has already been deomonstrated. After all, you have proof that these ideas actually function.
Except you completely just showed your ignorance of how GW2 will work. How is a game going to lose subs when you dont have to subscribe to the game in the first place?
Now overall I agree that there will be people who just hate GW2 and while I'm looking forward to it, I'm refusing to believe it will truly be diffrent till I see it for myself. But when you start already talking about a game that will drop a massive amount of subs, when its not a sub based game I just have to assume you are a troll and should not be taken seriously.
I'll catch you up on the conversation as you didn't read:
The point is the population will drop, not subs.
GW2 will still be criticized exactly how I describe (probably by a disappointed OP)
As a B2P game, the hype train is how they make money -- so it's no surprise they've gone nuts getting people hyped on a game where 100% of the income is based on suckering people into a box sale, vs. where most of the income can potentially come after the box sale as long as the game is fun (vs. going entirely F2P where 100% of the income comes from making the game fun.)
It could certainly still be fun, but being B2P isn't helping my confidence of the hype.
Well population drop and criticism are a given post launch, considering that 99% of all mmos have experienced this. WoW is the only game that had growth over years, but it still received a lot of criticism in the forum space.
I think your comments on the hype train are a bit off. Yes, the game is dependant on box sales, they stated that they will have a fluff cash shop, and there's still a question of DLC like optional dungeons. However, I don't see ANet going out and hyping their game, certainly not like some past developers (WAR anyone?). They've showed off their game at Conventions, allowed people to take video and post it to Youtube. Basically, the hype of the game is coming from a more modern version of "word of mouth", which is allows those who have played to share their experiences. That's the type of "hype" that should be seen in a more positive light.
I can see where you can be hesitant about B2P, but at the same time, wouldn't B2P have more to prove? If you look at P2P games, they string you along and hold out that proverbial carrot-on-a-stick. Hell, WoW had an item called a Carrot-on-a-stick in the past. Look at how many still play WoW, regardless of losing over 1 million subs, they still have more subscribers than anyone else. Getting strung along by the next tier of raiding, pvp, gear, etc.
B2P, sure it means you can drop it and pick it up as much as you want, but isn't that actually better than P2P? So, let's say there's a bug that isn't being fixed, well you simply stop playing. They release a patch that fixes it, well you just log in to see if it is fixed.
As a consumer, there is less risk involved in B2P, but there is MORE risk to the developer and their publisher. I'd be more leary if this was another P2P.
Don't forget the great locust swarm of negativity is still circling out there, waiting to descend. When they cannot find things that are easy to criticise, just the fact that it's "hyped" will motivate them to search all possible corners and crannies for the obscure.
Keep chipping at it with enough determination, get enough me-toos to hop on board, and the obscure becomes a Huge Issue.
And if the WoW fanbois see a serious threat...god help you. It's a barely literate dogpile of alts.
Situation normal, same as every other game in the last seven years.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
GW2 is no different from P2P as they need to sell alot of xpacs to make good profit.
False. Most of their profit will come from the original game's box sales and the in game store. They'll probably release an expansion pack once every year or so.
So you say they make more profit of rewriting a game engine a new game system new classes etc then making an xpack on an excisting engine and system? ya right.. if that was the case you will never see an xpack but gw3 gw4 etc.....
If Anet is lucky they break even on boxsales alone.
There will definitely be expansion packs and other stuff for you to buy post-release for GW2. I highly doubt they will come out "immediately" after release though.
I also don't see why you think that a game company can't make a profit on box sales alone. Are you aware that the vast majority of the industry does just this?
Do you think that MMORPG development costs are so much higher than any SP game that there is no way a profit could ever be made on box sales of an MMORPG?
WoW is estimated to cost $63 million to initially develop and Skyrim is estimate to cost $100 million to develop.
Skyrim was able to make a profit selling its 10 million+ copies just fine.
Don't forget the great locust swarm of negativity is still circling out there, waiting to descend. When they cannot find things that are easy to criticise, just the fact that it's "hyped" will motivate them to search all possible corners and crannies for the obscure.
Keep chipping at it with enough determination, and the obscure becomes a Huge Issue.
And if the WoW fanbois see a serious threat...god help you.
Situation normal, same as every other game in the last seven years.
Yeah I really don't care if people want to be negative just because they feel like it, or because they feel like they need to lash out in "defense" of their game.
I'm more concerned about whether GW2 will have real issues, not whether someone is going to say the game is fail because it doesn't have mounts or dueling .
If GW2 does have some real, serious, gamebreaking problems, then it will deserve its criticism. If not, then it will just be fun to watch people that want to hate on GW2 scramble for things to hate on .
EDIT:
Anyway, in the end all that matters is the almighty dollar. People can hate on WoW all they want (and they do), but the fact of the matter is that WoW is still by far the most successful MMORPG in existence.
GW2's real measure of success or failure will be its revenue...not what a bunch of people on the forums complain about .
If GW2 does have some real, serious, gamebreaking problems, then it will deserve its criticism. If not, then it will just be fun to watch people that want to hate on GW2 scramble for things to hate on .
You underestimate their numbers. Every [sandbox fan], every [fan of game X], every [I hate hype], every [I hate positive people]...every [haven't played any game in years]...
It's not fun. Mostly, it's depressing as hell, given the reflex herd instincts involved in message boards.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
GW2 is no different from P2P as they need to sell alot of xpacs to make good profit.
Dont sell lots of xpacs with just hype.
Just cause GW2 is B2P dusnt mean they dont have to deliver
But companies just don't approach things that way. They shoot for profit on the first go with tons of hype, or most of the time they aren't profitable.
Clearly they're going to try to release a great product, but the payment model puts a lot more emphasis on marketing (which is actually money thrown away which could've been spent making the product better) than on improving the product.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
GW2 is no different from P2P as they need to sell alot of xpacs to make good profit.
False. Most of their profit will come from the original game's box sales and the in game store. They'll probably release an expansion pack once every year or so.
So you say they make more profit of rewriting a game engine a new game system new classes etc then making an xpack on an excisting engine and system? ya right.. if that was the case you will never see an xpack but gw3 gw4 etc.....
If Anet is lucky they break even on boxsales alone.
And that's why I don't discuss money and game development with people on this site. Over exagerration and no logical basis for arguments. Stick to discussing game mechanics buddy.
I honestly can not fathom how some of you develop such predictions without even testing the game. Simply, all this speculation is based on merely the words of other people. You need concrete experience to accurately and reasonably formulate such "visions". What may sound terrific on paper, may utterly fail in reality. I advise some of you to actually test things out before delving into the realms of "Game X's influences on the industry". Your amounts of overpraise can only lead to greater disappointment. Try and maintain a reasonable level of expectation to protect yourself and others around you.
I tested the game
Hmm well let's see what have they said they were going to do but didn't do durring my time in Pax?Ah right...WvWvW is about the only skeptical feature for [me]. Mind you guys I hated GW 2 to the core before trying it out, I figured it was like Guild Wars 1.
Yet I will agree I'm staying humble even though in all honesty for the first time you could possibly look at videos and literally know how good it is.
I can't think of a person who's in fact tried the game out last year and not like what he saw or experienced.
Honestly though if GW 2 manages to succeed sheer creativity would be most likely expected.
Luckily we have three MMOs who all look promising in giving a true a possibly better experience.
Because not one game topped my experience at Pax. Like just for an MMO to have gameplay that matches the story sheesh you even have escort missionns just to change flavor up, and puzzles.
All they are doing is innovating off of seperate aspects in various MMOs that had potential and putting them into one game and them improving them to their likings, as well as they making all these nice aspects [work] together.
I haven't been able to reach max in any mmo despite having the money but mainly the combat, MMOs were not for me to be really honest, I can't stand hitting, waiting, hitting after getting hit, or blocking and still taking damage, dodging randomely and so forth.
Well now I'm able to enjoy fun skill based combat in an MMO.
Superhero games tried but lacked on other things. Dynamic type ish yee kno?
Rift had rifts but combat
Such n such has story but gameplay
And the list goes on.
Not one game put em all in except GW 2, possibly AA, and TSW least got story and game play when I tested it but it wasn't polished [then] yet very promising.
Both things these don't have is a Grind in timesink(Long boring runs back just to feel you've done a lot or having to wait to get back to having fun) or visible grind(keep killing till you level numbers are at the top right corner of your screen). I don't doubt a chance of them having a grind but however the grind isn't time consuming or questing and such.
You can immerse yourself both in story and gameplay as well as enjoy both, that is how it is.
Also forgot to mention an mmo were you won't pay much attention to the chat box or skill bar(s).
Take care guys
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
If GW2 does have some real, serious, gamebreaking problems, then it will deserve its criticism. If not, then it will just be fun to watch people that want to hate on GW2 scramble for things to hate on .
You underestimate their numbers. Every [sandbox fan], every [fan of game X], every [I hate hype], every [I hate positive people]...every [haven't played any game in years]...
It's not fun. Mostly, it's depressing as hell, given the reflex herd instincts involved in message boards.
Well, it doesn't bother me...I find it kind of amusing .
But anyway...it still just doesn't matter. Even if there are thousands of people on these boards complaining about how terrible GW2 is, if the game winds up making tons of money and retaining a lot of players, then all their whining is moot.
Same is true with SWTOR or any other game. The real test is $.
First, I'll say the payment model has already changed the MMO industry, and this was introduced with GW1. While there are still AAA MMOs being released with subscriptions, most MMOs nowadays are either free2play, or buy2play. This wasn't true before GW1 came out.
The only reason AAA MMOs are still doing subscriptions, is because players keep proving that they will gobble up the hype machine and cough up the coin anyway. Thus insuring the investment of these big games. Free2play / Buy2play is a lot riskier for a AAA, because if you aren't able to rely as much on the initial hype, and have to keep delivering on your reputation. Such games have so much overhead that they need to generate a huge profit asap to cover those costs.
Secondly, overhype is probably the biggest threat to this game right now. I think this game is going to be good, but it has to be realistic as well. Expect the impossible isn't going to help this game be any better, just let it release and then judge it based on how it is, not on your own personal fantasy about what you want it to be.
Third, if GW2 is successful (and I hope it is) it will encourage more studios to try new things. For one, their combat is quite different from most MMOs (it's a lot more action based, and more interactive). We've seen parts of this in previous games, but they were fleeting. They didn't really catch on, and so we don't tend to see these features much. More importantly, though, Anet has been designing this game with PLAYERS in mind. The current trend is designing games with BUSINESS in mind, and seeing what sells, and mimicking it. Generating what the players want becomes secondary, which imho is absolutely backwards of how games should be made.
I disagree totally with your first part about gw1 effecting the genre. GW1 isn't even a MMO. What started this new trend of converting over to F2P AAA MMO was from Turbine which started it with LOTRO, which they based it off the flop of DDO, which also isn't a real MMO.
First, I'll say the payment model has already changed the MMO industry, and this was introduced with GW1. While there are still AAA MMOs being released with subscriptions, most MMOs nowadays are either free2play, or buy2play. This wasn't true before GW1 came out.
The only reason AAA MMOs are still doing subscriptions, is because players keep proving that they will gobble up the hype machine and cough up the coin anyway. Thus insuring the investment of these big games. Free2play / Buy2play is a lot riskier for a AAA, because if you aren't able to rely as much on the initial hype, and have to keep delivering on your reputation. Such games have so much overhead that they need to generate a huge profit asap to cover those costs.
Secondly, overhype is probably the biggest threat to this game right now. I think this game is going to be good, but it has to be realistic as well. Expect the impossible isn't going to help this game be any better, just let it release and then judge it based on how it is, not on your own personal fantasy about what you want it to be.
Third, if GW2 is successful (and I hope it is) it will encourage more studios to try new things. For one, their combat is quite different from most MMOs (it's a lot more action based, and more interactive). We've seen parts of this in previous games, but they were fleeting. They didn't really catch on, and so we don't tend to see these features much. More importantly, though, Anet has been designing this game with PLAYERS in mind. The current trend is designing games with BUSINESS in mind, and seeing what sells, and mimicking it. Generating what the players want becomes secondary, which imho is absolutely backwards of how games should be made.
I disagree totally with your first part about gw1 effecting the genre. GW1 isn't even a MMO. What started this new trend of converting over to F2P AAA MMO was from Turbine which started it with LOTRO, which they based it off the flop of DDO, which also isn't a real MMO.
Who made you the authority on what a real MMO is?
"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Warswas designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience."
This is all speculation of course, but based on predictions, will GW2 effect the way post GW2 MMO are designed in a similar manner that Everquest 1 and WoW did after their successful run?
If so, which areas of MMO development will GW2 have the most influence on?
Here is a few - could come up with more - but so many are allready mentioned here!
1) Dynamic events- thats a no brainer to predict- we will not see any mmo being developed without thesse, or at least claiming to have them from now on .
2) When its ready - i think we will see at least a trend for a while where compagnies will try to copy ArenaNets way to deal with fans and release info. It will offcause fade when compagnies find out all that doesn't matter if you don't deliver, or doesn't have the reputation that says you deliver.
3) B2P is not that obvius to copy, because it requires a huge amount of faith in the product - that i think not that many compagnies really have. Most compagnies will be to greedy and not brave enough to go that way for a while. Offcause that will stop if people wholy stops paying subscribtions , buts thats not that likely even if and when GW2 have a huge impact on the market.
4) User friendly - thats a huge question, because if GW2 is an astonishingly succes , then the whole setup off trying to be as friendly to players as possible might be a new trend as well
This is all speculation of course, but based on predictions, will GW2 effect the way post GW2 MMO are designed in a similar manner that Everquest 1 and WoW did after their successful run?
If so, which areas of MMO development will GW2 have the most influence on?
If it's an enormous success it might have an impact on MMO's in general. If they can make an AAA title B2P, it could be a real change to the business models out there, especially P2P.
Another thing is the holy trinity. Either make a classless system in which it's very easy to change roles (TSW) or get rid of the trinity altogether (GW2). This is a change I really applaud, I'm really, really tired of lf healer, lf tank. And when I'm that tired of it, it's a pretty safe bet that I'm not the only one.
There are more interesting concepts in GW2, but one in business and one in gameplay is my guess for the most important possible changes due to GW2 if it's a huge hit. :P
First, I'll say the payment model has already changed the MMO industry, and this was introduced with GW1. While there are still AAA MMOs being released with subscriptions, most MMOs nowadays are either free2play, or buy2play. This wasn't true before GW1 came out.
The only reason AAA MMOs are still doing subscriptions, is because players keep proving that they will gobble up the hype machine and cough up the coin anyway. Thus insuring the investment of these big games. Free2play / Buy2play is a lot riskier for a AAA, because if you aren't able to rely as much on the initial hype, and have to keep delivering on your reputation. Such games have so much overhead that they need to generate a huge profit asap to cover those costs.
Secondly, overhype is probably the biggest threat to this game right now. I think this game is going to be good, but it has to be realistic as well. Expect the impossible isn't going to help this game be any better, just let it release and then judge it based on how it is, not on your own personal fantasy about what you want it to be.
Third, if GW2 is successful (and I hope it is) it will encourage more studios to try new things. For one, their combat is quite different from most MMOs (it's a lot more action based, and more interactive). We've seen parts of this in previous games, but they were fleeting. They didn't really catch on, and so we don't tend to see these features much. More importantly, though, Anet has been designing this game with PLAYERS in mind. The current trend is designing games with BUSINESS in mind, and seeing what sells, and mimicking it. Generating what the players want becomes secondary, which imho is absolutely backwards of how games should be made.
I disagree totally with your first part about gw1 effecting the genre. GW1 isn't even a MMO. What started this new trend of converting over to F2P AAA MMO was from Turbine which started it with LOTRO, which they based it off the flop of DDO, which also isn't a real MMO.
Who made you the authority on what a real MMO is?
"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Warswas designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience."
Guild Wars is accepted by the MMO community and industry as one of their own despite it not being an MMO. That's like saying Borderlands isn't accepted by the FPS industry just because it's Diablo inspired.
GW1 isn't an MMO. But that doesn't mean it can't influence the MMO genre. Especially since it's technically not a regular RPG either. It's in the middle. Hence CORPG. Which means it can be an integral part of both the standard RPG industry and MMO industry.
I think what we all can agree on is that it will(like many others have pointed out) put the word out there that you do not need a sub based model to have a AAA MMO.
That I want to see changed, I mean I enjoy MMOs but im from an era of atari sega master etc etc where we would buy the game and have fun with it, then came the age of UO/AC/AO where if you wanted an mmo server bandwidth limited you so you needed a sub, but now bandwidth is minimal and End product should be end product. Not this oh well we released a game but we need your money to upkeep the game therefore we need your sub.
All Single players offer free patches thats what I expect B2P simple as that, charge me for DLC I dont care but dont charge me for upkeep of the game.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
If the OP is talking about B2P then I don't think so, here is why :
GW2 first release will be short. Way shorter than people think. Two weeks in, will be buying the first expansion, soon after the next. Before you know it you will have $200 invested in the game, and be thinking how did that happen ?
They are making all expansions at the same time, that is one reason its taking so long.
You will say...But GW1 waited 6 mo or more to release expantions....This is not GW1 !!!
Nothing is free !!!!
Haha.. I'm always fascinated how people like you even think about this...
Let's say you're right and they are making all of the expansions at the same time (which is logically impossible)...
Though 2 weeks is obviously ridiculous, I personally hope they DO release expacks pretty often.
GW2 is dangerous for the simple reason it is claiming to be a mmorpg that is B2P, so already off top that might change stuff. It will make you question devs the same way Rift makes players question other devs when some stuff is missing.
If they can pull off this wierd sandbox/themepark thing that would be interesting.
Removing classes would be one hell of a change, especially removing a dedicated healer
That WvWvW is what is making DAoC fanboi rock hard when they think of GW2. That is the feature they never shut up about actually.
Those are the big three I see.
GW2 is nothing sandbox. Dont even put those two words together...ever again.
That being said, I will laugh in my grave, grave because the GW2 fanboi's are gonna come kill me after this; when GW2 just isn't what everyone hopes its going to be. Its gonna be a B2P WoW, quest based content with raids. The WvWvW is gonna be nice but its just an inflated Battleground with the way they are implimenting it.
This coming from a long time GW1 fan. In one of the top PvP clans Stealing Society back when GW was still popular. I really enjoyed GW1 for its PvP. Its GvG pvp was amazing. GW2 is going the battleground route... disgraceful.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
If the OP is talking about B2P then I don't think so, here is why :
GW2 first release will be short. Way shorter than people think. Two weeks in, will be buying the first expansion, soon after the next. Before you know it you will have $200 invested in the game, and be thinking how did that happen ?
They are making all expansions at the same time, that is one reason its taking so long.
You will say...But GW1 waited 6 mo or more to release expantions....This is not GW1 !!!
Nothing is free !!!!
You're fucking retarded. I'm not even going to honor you with a polite response.
If the OP is talking about B2P then I don't think so, here is why :
GW2 first release will be short. Way shorter than people think. Two weeks in, will be buying the first expansion, soon after the next. Before you know it you will have $200 invested in the game, and be thinking how did that happen ?
They are making all expansions at the same time, that is one reason its taking so long.
You will say...But GW1 waited 6 mo or more to release expantions....This is not GW1 !!!
Nothing is free !!!!
You're fucking retarded. I'm not even going to honor you with a polite response.
I do agree with the response to the top quote......That guy is missing something upstairs.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
GW2 is dangerous for the simple reason it is claiming to be a mmorpg that is B2P, so already off top that might change stuff. It will make you question devs the same way Rift makes players question other devs when some stuff is missing.
If they can pull off this wierd sandbox/themepark thing that would be interesting.
Removing classes would be one hell of a change, especially removing a dedicated healer
That WvWvW is what is making DAoC fanboi rock hard when they think of GW2. That is the feature they never shut up about actually.
Those are the big three I see.
GW2 is nothing sandbox. Dont even put those two words together...ever again.
That being said, I will laugh in my grave, grave because the GW2 fanboi's are gonna come kill me after this; when GW2 just isn't what everyone hopes its going to be. Its gonna be a B2P WoW, quest based content with raids. The WvWvW is gonna be nice but its just an inflated Battleground with the way they are implimenting it.
This coming from a long time GW1 fan. In one of the top PvP clans Stealing Society back when GW was still popular. I really enjoyed GW1 for its PvP. Its GvG pvp was amazing. GW2 is going the battleground route... disgraceful.
Lol what? Everything we have heard and seen has been the total opposite of what you just said. So what you basically are saying that the Devs at Arenanet have been lying to us all this time and they actually want to make a B2P WoW clone.
Quite frankly you have no idea what you are talking about.
This is all speculation of course, but based on predictions, will GW2 effect the way post GW2 MMO are designed in a similar manner that Everquest 1 and WoW did after their successful run?
If so, which areas of MMO development will GW2 have the most influence on?
Be specific. You post is SO OVERLY GENERAL that later you can cherry pick what you are claiming now.
List specific things you think will do this. Things that have never been used in any previous video game of any type.
I'm also interested in which specific features or decisions you feel will affect design decisions of future MMOs.
IMO, the drive will be the advancement of the ability to produce content and game engines at a lower cost. the results will likely mean more cheap throwaway games.
As much as I don't like it, games for smart devices like phones and tablets will grow to the point where it might be THE PLATFORM to write games for.
My Hopes: the trend away from avoiding "over production" of content will lead to a return of games as virtual worlds.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
Yeah...exactly.
Overhyped is when you have a bunch of expectations with no real grounding in demonstrated fact. Like if a developer just shows you an OMFG AWESOME cinematic and you think the game is going to rule because of that. The cinematic has NO BEARING on the gameplay whatsoever, so this is overhype.
Another example would be if a developer has an OMFG AWESOME feature list on their webpage with some very tailored screenshots to illustrate their OMFG AWESOME features. The problem here is that you have no proof they've actually implemented the OMFG AWESOME features. They have not been demonstrated, they are just a concept. If you get all excited about this with no proof...then this is overhype.
But when a developer brings their game to a very public convention and demonstrates all their ideas by having people actually PLAY the REAL GAME. Then getting excited about this isn't really overhype, so long as you're just excited about that which has already been deomonstrated. After all, you have proof that these ideas actually function.
Which one of those sounds like GW2?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well population drop and criticism are a given post launch, considering that 99% of all mmos have experienced this. WoW is the only game that had growth over years, but it still received a lot of criticism in the forum space.
I think your comments on the hype train are a bit off. Yes, the game is dependant on box sales, they stated that they will have a fluff cash shop, and there's still a question of DLC like optional dungeons. However, I don't see ANet going out and hyping their game, certainly not like some past developers (WAR anyone?). They've showed off their game at Conventions, allowed people to take video and post it to Youtube. Basically, the hype of the game is coming from a more modern version of "word of mouth", which is allows those who have played to share their experiences. That's the type of "hype" that should be seen in a more positive light.
I can see where you can be hesitant about B2P, but at the same time, wouldn't B2P have more to prove? If you look at P2P games, they string you along and hold out that proverbial carrot-on-a-stick. Hell, WoW had an item called a Carrot-on-a-stick in the past. Look at how many still play WoW, regardless of losing over 1 million subs, they still have more subscribers than anyone else. Getting strung along by the next tier of raiding, pvp, gear, etc.
B2P, sure it means you can drop it and pick it up as much as you want, but isn't that actually better than P2P? So, let's say there's a bug that isn't being fixed, well you simply stop playing. They release a patch that fixes it, well you just log in to see if it is fixed.
As a consumer, there is less risk involved in B2P, but there is MORE risk to the developer and their publisher. I'd be more leary if this was another P2P.
Well, presumably exactly.
Don't forget the great locust swarm of negativity is still circling out there, waiting to descend. When they cannot find things that are easy to criticise, just the fact that it's "hyped" will motivate them to search all possible corners and crannies for the obscure.
Keep chipping at it with enough determination, get enough me-toos to hop on board, and the obscure becomes a Huge Issue.
And if the WoW fanbois see a serious threat...god help you. It's a barely literate dogpile of alts.
Situation normal, same as every other game in the last seven years.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There will definitely be expansion packs and other stuff for you to buy post-release for GW2. I highly doubt they will come out "immediately" after release though.
I also don't see why you think that a game company can't make a profit on box sales alone. Are you aware that the vast majority of the industry does just this?
Do you think that MMORPG development costs are so much higher than any SP game that there is no way a profit could ever be made on box sales of an MMORPG?
WoW is estimated to cost $63 million to initially develop and Skyrim is estimate to cost $100 million to develop.
Skyrim was able to make a profit selling its 10 million+ copies just fine.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yeah I really don't care if people want to be negative just because they feel like it, or because they feel like they need to lash out in "defense" of their game.
I'm more concerned about whether GW2 will have real issues, not whether someone is going to say the game is fail because it doesn't have mounts or dueling
.
If GW2 does have some real, serious, gamebreaking problems, then it will deserve its criticism. If not, then it will just be fun to watch people that want to hate on GW2 scramble for things to hate on
.
EDIT:
Anyway, in the end all that matters is the almighty dollar. People can hate on WoW all they want (and they do), but the fact of the matter is that WoW is still by far the most successful MMORPG in existence.
GW2's real measure of success or failure will be its revenue...not what a bunch of people on the forums complain about
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You underestimate their numbers. Every [sandbox fan], every [fan of game X], every [I hate hype], every [I hate positive people]...every [haven't played any game in years]...
It's not fun. Mostly, it's depressing as hell, given the reflex herd instincts involved in message boards.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
But companies just don't approach things that way. They shoot for profit on the first go with tons of hype, or most of the time they aren't profitable.
Clearly they're going to try to release a great product, but the payment model puts a lot more emphasis on marketing (which is actually money thrown away which could've been spent making the product better) than on improving the product.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
And that's why I don't discuss money and game development with people on this site. Over exagerration and no logical basis for arguments. Stick to discussing game mechanics buddy.
I don't know about design, but it may raise the popularity of B2P bussiness model and raise the expectations and quality standard of other P2P mmos.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
I tested the game
Hmm well let's see what have they said they were going to do but didn't do durring my time in Pax?Ah right...WvWvW is about the only skeptical feature for [me]. Mind you guys I hated GW 2 to the core before trying it out, I figured it was like Guild Wars 1.
Yet I will agree I'm staying humble even though in all honesty for the first time you could possibly look at videos and literally know how good it is.
I can't think of a person who's in fact tried the game out last year and not like what he saw or experienced.
Honestly though if GW 2 manages to succeed sheer creativity would be most likely expected.
Luckily we have three MMOs who all look promising in giving a true a possibly better experience.
Because not one game topped my experience at Pax. Like just for an MMO to have gameplay that matches the story sheesh you even have escort missionns just to change flavor up, and puzzles.
All they are doing is innovating off of seperate aspects in various MMOs that had potential and putting them into one game and them improving them to their likings, as well as they making all these nice aspects [work] together.
I haven't been able to reach max in any mmo despite having the money but mainly the combat, MMOs were not for me to be really honest, I can't stand hitting, waiting, hitting after getting hit, or blocking and still taking damage, dodging randomely and so forth.
Well now I'm able to enjoy fun skill based combat in an MMO.
Superhero games tried but lacked on other things. Dynamic type ish yee kno?
Rift had rifts but combat
Such n such has story but gameplay
And the list goes on.
Not one game put em all in except GW 2, possibly AA, and TSW least got story and game play when I tested it but it wasn't polished [then] yet very promising.
Both things these don't have is a Grind in timesink(Long boring runs back just to feel you've done a lot or having to wait to get back to having fun) or visible grind(keep killing till you level numbers are at the top right corner of your screen). I don't doubt a chance of them having a grind but however the grind isn't time consuming or questing and such.
You can immerse yourself both in story and gameplay as well as enjoy both, that is how it is.
Also forgot to mention an mmo were you won't pay much attention to the chat box or skill bar(s).
Take care guys
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Well, it doesn't bother me...I find it kind of amusing
.
But anyway...it still just doesn't matter. Even if there are thousands of people on these boards complaining about how terrible GW2 is, if the game winds up making tons of money and retaining a lot of players, then all their whining is moot.
Same is true with SWTOR or any other game. The real test is $.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Who made you the authority on what a real MMO is?
"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Warswas designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience."
Taken from arenanets own website here http://www.guildwars.com/products/guildwars/features/default.php
Here is a few - could come up with more - but so many are allready mentioned here!
1) Dynamic events- thats a no brainer to predict- we will not see any mmo being developed without thesse, or at least claiming to have them from now on
.
2) When its ready - i think we will see at least a trend for a while where compagnies will try to copy ArenaNets way to deal with fans and release info. It will offcause fade when compagnies find out all that doesn't matter if you don't deliver, or doesn't have the reputation that says you deliver.
3) B2P is not that obvius to copy, because it requires a huge amount of faith in the product - that i think not that many compagnies really have. Most compagnies will be to greedy and not brave enough to go that way for a while. Offcause that will stop if people wholy stops paying subscribtions , buts thats not that likely even if and when GW2 have a huge impact on the market.
4) User friendly - thats a huge question, because if GW2 is an astonishingly succes , then the whole setup off trying to be as friendly to players as possible might be a new trend as well
If it's an enormous success it might have an impact on MMO's in general. If they can make an AAA title B2P, it could be a real change to the business models out there, especially P2P.
Another thing is the holy trinity. Either make a classless system in which it's very easy to change roles (TSW) or get rid of the trinity altogether (GW2). This is a change I really applaud, I'm really, really tired of lf healer, lf tank. And when I'm that tired of it, it's a pretty safe bet that I'm not the only one.
There are more interesting concepts in GW2, but one in business and one in gameplay is my guess for the most important possible changes due to GW2 if it's a huge hit. :P
Guild Wars is accepted by the MMO community and industry as one of their own despite it not being an MMO. That's like saying Borderlands isn't accepted by the FPS industry just because it's Diablo inspired.
GW1 isn't an MMO. But that doesn't mean it can't influence the MMO genre. Especially since it's technically not a regular RPG either. It's in the middle. Hence CORPG. Which means it can be an integral part of both the standard RPG industry and MMO industry.
I think what we all can agree on is that it will(like many others have pointed out) put the word out there that you do not need a sub based model to have a AAA MMO.
That I want to see changed, I mean I enjoy MMOs but im from an era of atari sega master etc etc where we would buy the game and have fun with it, then came the age of UO/AC/AO where if you wanted an mmo server bandwidth limited you so you needed a sub, but now bandwidth is minimal and End product should be end product. Not this oh well we released a game but we need your money to upkeep the game therefore we need your sub.
All Single players offer free patches thats what I expect B2P simple as that, charge me for DLC I dont care but dont charge me for upkeep of the game.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
Though 2 weeks is obviously ridiculous, I personally hope they DO release expacks pretty often.
GW2 is nothing sandbox. Dont even put those two words together...ever again.
That being said, I will laugh in my grave, grave because the GW2 fanboi's are gonna come kill me after this; when GW2 just isn't what everyone hopes its going to be. Its gonna be a B2P WoW, quest based content with raids. The WvWvW is gonna be nice but its just an inflated Battleground with the way they are implimenting it.
This coming from a long time GW1 fan. In one of the top PvP clans Stealing Society back when GW was still popular. I really enjoyed GW1 for its PvP. Its GvG pvp was amazing. GW2 is going the battleground route... disgraceful.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
You're fucking retarded. I'm not even going to honor you with a polite response.
I do agree with the response to the top quote......That guy is missing something upstairs.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Lol what? Everything we have heard and seen has been the total opposite of what you just said. So what you basically are saying that the Devs at Arenanet have been lying to us all this time and they actually want to make a B2P WoW clone.
Quite frankly you have no idea what you are talking about.
IMO, the drive will be the advancement of the ability to produce content and game engines at a lower cost. the results will likely mean more cheap throwaway games.
As much as I don't like it, games for smart devices like phones and tablets will grow to the point where it might be THE PLATFORM to write games for.
My Hopes: the trend away from avoiding "over production" of content will lead to a return of games as virtual worlds.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
yes
life is experience
once you level up
come talk to me