I'm totally with fiontar, GW2 is not revolutionary, it only seems to be because the industry inflicted a case of self stagnation the last 7 to 10 years. Gw2 should have by now, been a pretty standard game at this point. Not taking anything away from Anet staff, the hard work and effort is obvious they love the hobby as much as their business. My point is, they shouldn't stand out so much.
Actually, I think it is pretty revolutionary, because of the sheer amount of innovation and the fact that they have done a leap frog of at least a full two generation's worth of MMO evolution in one fell swoop.
I did say it's not the zenith of perfection for the MMO genre that no other title will ever be able to top, but it's a big step towards the currently imaginable ideal. (The "ideal" itself will continue to evolve as the technology evolves). I also will grant that IF the genre had continued to innovate after WoW, GW2 may have only been a next gen evolution to the genre. It was easier for this title to jump into the "revolutionary" category because the rest of the genre has been stagnant.
As far as Arenanet, I think what they seem to have accomplished with the game's design and the follow through to make the design a great game is just amazing. When most of the competition can't even understand that they are stuck in deep rut, let alone get about the process of figuring out how to pull themselves out of said rut, Arenanet's apparent accomplishments become even more impressive. They had the insight to see what was broken in the genre; the brains and creativity to design ways to fix it; the corporate mentality /iterative process needed to actually produce the concept into a game that is greater than the sum of it's parts and the guts to actually do it. I have respect for NCSoft as well for giving Arenanet the money, time and autonomy needed to pursue their vision.
I'm not sure how a huge success for GW2 will impact current and future MMO development. It will be hard to copy bits and pieces of GW2s design and make everything work with out the proper supporting context. Besides, we don't need to trade clones of one game for clones of another. I'm hoping that some developers/publishers will be proof that innovation and out of the box thinking can pay off big and will be more willing to attempt their own innovations, free of the shackles of the current MMORPG status quo design doctrine.
I'm totally with fiontar, GW2 is not revolutionary, it only seems to be because the industry inflicted a case of self stagnation the last 7 to 10 years. Gw2 should have by now, been a pretty standard game at this point. Not taking anything away from Anet staff, the hard work and effort is obvious they love the hobby as much as their business. My point is, they shouldn't stand out so much.
Actually, I think it is pretty revolutionary, because of the sheer amount of innovation and the fact that they have done a leap frog of at least a full two generation's worth of MMO evolution in one fell swoop.
Well I poorly said it but meant that it really isn't revolutionary because its what we should have had already. Only revolutionary to an industry that killed innovation for years on purpose.
As one playtester said this weekend, this is so simple, why don't games have this already.
GW2 is the current middle stepping stone for innovation. try as you might TSW is more innovative. but GW2 taking the middle ground between Traditional gameing and next gen gaming is something that needs to be there. people who dont want to do a huge jump to next gen wont like TSW. too much has changed, i theorize that Guild Wars 2 will get alot of that demographic. I have no doubt in that fact what so ever. also don't forget GW2 supporters are as tenatious as Ron Paul Supporters. they could make the game as cookie cutter as it gets and the GW2 supporters would jump all over it. i for one, am happy they aren't doing that and are willing to release a game that is taking afew steps forward.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
My huge fear about GW2 is that it could be and feel like a console game and not a MMO.
Why is that even a fear?
MMOs feel like crap anyway.
Yes and thats why WoW is still the Nº1, and i dont like Wow at all btw. But you have Millions of MMO players who at some point will find bored a game where everyone is dps and you can only use 5 keys in combat, i saw some vids from the beta and it was people spamming 1111- 2-1111 and maybe 3 or 4 sometimes, it really looks like a console game, it could be fun and im really exited about the WvW or RvR in gw2, but i dont know.
My huge fear about GW2 is that it could be and feel like a console game and not a MMO.
Why is that even a fear?
MMOs feel like crap anyway.
Yes and thats why WoW is still the Nº1, and i dont like Wow at all btw. But you have Millions of MMO players who at some point will find bored a game where everyone is dps and you can only use 5 keys in combat, i saw some vids from the beta and it was people spamming 1111- 2-1111 and maybe 3 or 4 sometimes, it really looks like a console game, it could be fun and im really exited about the WvW or RvR in gw2, but i dont know.
im about to give you the reason why WoW is still the #1 in the industry. people have been playing it for SO long that they dont want to give up the years of work they put into the game to hold their station.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
From what ive read and what ive seen in the beta videos, this game definently seems less like an MMO and more like a console FPS game but just a different genre.
Don't really get how MMO players will not get sick of this gmae after a month or two of playing it.
Honestly, this game wasn't even really on my radar that much until the past weekends press beta. The feedback/previews that have been coming back from the event have all been overwhelming positive. I'm not trying to hate on some other games that came out recently but it seems like arenanet is really trying to push the MMO genre forward in a lot of exciting new ways. Basically, from all the feedback I've read through on various sites what arenanet has done is make the game fun. That's something that has really been lacking in new MMO's that have been following the same old stagnant recipe with one or two new twists.
Anyways, now we just have to wait for the game but I'm getting really excited about this game!
Ive been saying this for the last year and half.
As MMO gaming is my passion and only hobby I spend alot of time every day reading and researching released and future MMO's, mainly because I enjoy it but also to get a feel for the a game may or may not play out. At no point in the last 2 years have I ever wondred what could be with GW2 because every thing they show or talk about is already in game and working. Its different from games like Rift and SWTOR who had lots of false hype based on faulty assumptions or" what ifs".
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
im about to give you the reason why WoW is still the #1 in the industry. people have been playing it for SO long that they dont want to give up the years of work they put into the game to hold their station.
The beauty of a B2P MMO is that they don't have to.
Play WoW. Also play TSW if you want. GW2 doesn't care.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The thing that jumps out to me the most is that developers always say their game is 'different'. It seems that, as confirmed by this weekend, Guild Wars 2 actually is.
Not for me. It has far too much instancing and teleporting to give me that good open world feel, and while the PvP is a step in the right direction, since there's no pre defined realms... it feels more like an E Sport than warfare.
From what ive read and what ive seen in the beta videos, this game definently seems less like an MMO and more like a console FPS game but just a different genre.
Don't really get how MMO players will not get sick of this gmae after a month or two of playing it.
I am asuming you are talking about combat, because else your post really needs some explanation. But why should it be combat that defines if a game is a MMO ?
And who say that there is not alot of MMO players and former MMO players aswell that is really tired of MMO combat, and who says that not alot the FPS crowd actual would like to play in a MMO world with their kind of combat!
Basicly what you see as a problem could be the games main strength. I think it is
Good to see a positive thread without the flaming.
I'm looking forward to the game as much as the next person is. I see GW2 as 2 games for 1, PvP and PvE, many games have tried PvP with PvE and has never worked succefuly without an imbalance, seperating them and bolstering everyone to the same level is a good idea but not without its faults as naturally higher level players will still be slightly better than a bolstered player.
Some forum members have said that the story isnt very good and seems lacking. Personaly I think the story should be player driven from your own experience within the game, the character is you and you are the character, you grew up as a boy with a wooden sword in your hand and dreamed of being the hero of the land, blah blah blah.
I'm not concerned about this game getting ported to console, I dont think anybody should be if they are pc users, and I dont believe this game is based on key bashing either, your skills are going to determine whether you win or lose and bashing 11112 isnt going to help you get through this game.
Most new MMOs seem to be the game that people have been waiting for - until they play it for a bit, then all the so called faults seem to be paraded on forums in massive emo moments.
Most new MMOs seem to be the game that people have been waiting for - until they play it for a bit, then all the so called faults seem to be paraded on forums in massive emo moments.
And nothing will change.
yup!
totally agree. we will wait for this game to come out and inside a week the hate threads will flow, just like they have for every game released in the last few years.
I couldn't think of a shallower game, except for its predecessor. Somewhat less instances and being 'free 2 play' doesn't make it the best, infact, i struggle to discover what actually makes this good...a PvP leaderboard?!
I couldn't think of a shallower game, except for its predecessor. Somewhat less instances and being 'free 2 play' doesn't make it the best, infact, i struggle to discover what actually makes this good...a PvP leaderboard?!
if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Originally posted by jondifool Originally posted by Vegetto I couldn't think of a shallower game, except for its predecessor. Somewhat less instances and being 'free 2 play' doesn't make it the best, infact, i struggle to discover what actually makes this good...a PvP leaderboard?!
if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
Yep i watched few of their WvW video and it seam exactly the kind of stuff i was looking for, a game where you have plenty of stuff to do at any time. This kind thing was until now more of the sandbox type of game like Uo was back then in the old days, and somehow themepark never delivered in that aspect, those games were always super boring fast because they never had that much of content. So i really look forward for at last a themepark that is worth my time and money, simply because it actually give me something to play with apart from the usual xp/quest/gear grind. And partying, playing with other seam really nice too, better than ever, so ye definitely looking forward to it.
I'm totally with fiontar, GW2 is not revolutionary, it only seems to be because the industry inflicted a case of self stagnation the last 7 to 10 years. Gw2 should have by now, been a pretty standard game at this point. Not taking anything away from Anet staff, the hard work and effort is obvious they love the hobby as much as their business. My point is, they shouldn't stand out so much.
Actually, I think it is pretty revolutionary, because of the sheer amount of innovation and the fact that they have done a leap frog of at least a full two generation's worth of MMO evolution in one fell swoop.
I did say it's not the zenith of perfection for the MMO genre that no other title will ever be able to top, but it's a big step towards the currently imaginable ideal. (The "ideal" itself will continue to evolve as the technology evolves). I also will grant that IF the genre had continued to innovate after WoW, GW2 may have only been a next gen evolution to the genre. It was easier for this title to jump into the "revolutionary" category because the rest of the genre has been stagnant.
As far as Arenanet, I think what they seem to have accomplished with the game's design and the follow through to make the design a great game is just amazing. When most of the competition can't even understand that they are stuck in deep rut, let alone get about the process of figuring out how to pull themselves out of said rut, Arenanet's apparent accomplishments become even more impressive. They had the insight to see what was broken in the genre; the brains and creativity to design ways to fix it; the corporate mentality /iterative process needed to actually produce the concept into a game that is greater than the sum of it's parts and the guts to actually do it. I have respect for NCSoft as well for giving Arenanet the money, time and autonomy needed to pursue their vision.
I'm not sure how a huge success for GW2 will impact current and future MMO development. It will be hard to copy bits and pieces of GW2s design and make everything work with out the proper supporting context. Besides, we don't need to trade clones of one game for clones of another. I'm hoping that some developers/publishers will be proof that innovation and out of the box thinking can pay off big and will be more willing to attempt their own innovations, free of the shackles of the current MMORPG status quo design doctrine.
Well said, I believe if Guild Wars 2 succeeds, that will motivate other developers to improve their games and that will be the real next evelution of mmorpg.
I couldn't think of a shallower game, except for its predecessor. Somewhat less instances and being 'free 2 play' doesn't make it the best, infact, i struggle to discover what actually makes this good...a PvP leaderboard?!
if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
Or more to the point, what makes it special?
'based entirely around a PvP leaderboard' shows how little you knew about the first game It had around 500-600 hours of PvE content, nearly all of which was more interesting than anything on most MMO's Still, that was a CORPG.
[mod edit]
Go and read about the game. Since you very obviously haven't.
Originally posted by jondifool if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
its not that i agree with every thing- but at least we can have an informed dialog from there, and OPs post in that thread is all about what makes it special.
Comments
Actually, I think it is pretty revolutionary, because of the sheer amount of innovation and the fact that they have done a leap frog of at least a full two generation's worth of MMO evolution in one fell swoop.
I did say it's not the zenith of perfection for the MMO genre that no other title will ever be able to top, but it's a big step towards the currently imaginable ideal. (The "ideal" itself will continue to evolve as the technology evolves). I also will grant that IF the genre had continued to innovate after WoW, GW2 may have only been a next gen evolution to the genre. It was easier for this title to jump into the "revolutionary" category because the rest of the genre has been stagnant.
As far as Arenanet, I think what they seem to have accomplished with the game's design and the follow through to make the design a great game is just amazing. When most of the competition can't even understand that they are stuck in deep rut, let alone get about the process of figuring out how to pull themselves out of said rut, Arenanet's apparent accomplishments become even more impressive. They had the insight to see what was broken in the genre; the brains and creativity to design ways to fix it; the corporate mentality /iterative process needed to actually produce the concept into a game that is greater than the sum of it's parts and the guts to actually do it. I have respect for NCSoft as well for giving Arenanet the money, time and autonomy needed to pursue their vision.
I'm not sure how a huge success for GW2 will impact current and future MMO development. It will be hard to copy bits and pieces of GW2s design and make everything work with out the proper supporting context. Besides, we don't need to trade clones of one game for clones of another. I'm hoping that some developers/publishers will be proof that innovation and out of the box thinking can pay off big and will be more willing to attempt their own innovations, free of the shackles of the current MMORPG status quo design doctrine.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Well I poorly said it but meant that it really isn't revolutionary because its what we should have had already. Only revolutionary to an industry that killed innovation for years on purpose.
As one playtester said this weekend, this is so simple, why don't games have this already.
GW2 is the current middle stepping stone for innovation. try as you might TSW is more innovative. but GW2 taking the middle ground between Traditional gameing and next gen gaming is something that needs to be there. people who dont want to do a huge jump to next gen wont like TSW. too much has changed, i theorize that Guild Wars 2 will get alot of that demographic. I have no doubt in that fact what so ever. also don't forget GW2 supporters are as tenatious as Ron Paul Supporters. they could make the game as cookie cutter as it gets and the GW2 supporters would jump all over it. i for one, am happy they aren't doing that and are willing to release a game that is taking afew steps forward.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Yes and thats why WoW is still the Nº1, and i dont like Wow at all btw. But you have Millions of MMO players who at some point will find bored a game where everyone is dps and you can only use 5 keys in combat, i saw some vids from the beta and it was people spamming 1111- 2-1111 and maybe 3 or 4 sometimes, it really looks like a console game, it could be fun and im really exited about the WvW or RvR in gw2, but i dont know.
im about to give you the reason why WoW is still the #1 in the industry. people have been playing it for SO long that they dont want to give up the years of work they put into the game to hold their station.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
From what ive read and what ive seen in the beta videos, this game definently seems less like an MMO and more like a console FPS game but just a different genre.
Don't really get how MMO players will not get sick of this gmae after a month or two of playing it.
Ive been saying this for the last year and half.
As MMO gaming is my passion and only hobby I spend alot of time every day reading and researching released and future MMO's, mainly because I enjoy it but also to get a feel for the a game may or may not play out. At no point in the last 2 years have I ever wondred what could be with GW2 because every thing they show or talk about is already in game and working. Its different from games like Rift and SWTOR who had lots of false hype based on faulty assumptions or" what ifs".
Welcome to the fan club glad to have you
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
The beauty of a B2P MMO is that they don't have to.
Play WoW. Also play TSW if you want. GW2 doesn't care.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Lol i was just awnsering his question.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
quoted again for truth =D well said my friend!
Not for me. It has far too much instancing and teleporting to give me that good open world feel, and while the PvP is a step in the right direction, since there's no pre defined realms... it feels more like an E Sport than warfare.
Yes it does seems so, atleast the pvpers, i just hope they release it before 21 December 2012, so i can play a bit.
I am asuming you are talking about combat, because else your post really needs some explanation. But why should it be combat that defines if a game is a MMO ?
And who say that there is not alot of MMO players and former MMO players aswell that is really tired of MMO combat, and who says that not alot the FPS crowd actual would like to play in a MMO world with their kind of combat!
Basicly what you see as a problem could be the games main strength. I think it is
Good to see a positive thread without the flaming.
I'm looking forward to the game as much as the next person is. I see GW2 as 2 games for 1, PvP and PvE, many games have tried PvP with PvE and has never worked succefuly without an imbalance, seperating them and bolstering everyone to the same level is a good idea but not without its faults as naturally higher level players will still be slightly better than a bolstered player.
Some forum members have said that the story isnt very good and seems lacking. Personaly I think the story should be player driven from your own experience within the game, the character is you and you are the character, you grew up as a boy with a wooden sword in your hand and dreamed of being the hero of the land, blah blah blah.
I'm not concerned about this game getting ported to console, I dont think anybody should be if they are pc users, and I dont believe this game is based on key bashing either, your skills are going to determine whether you win or lose and bashing 11112 isnt going to help you get through this game.
Ah man, best reply I've ever read on this website.
No kidding.
Most new MMOs seem to be the game that people have been waiting for - until they play it for a bit, then all the so called faults seem to be paraded on forums in massive emo moments.
And nothing will change.
The MMO Messiah cometh.
yup!
totally agree. we will wait for this game to come out and inside a week the hate threads will flow, just like they have for every game released in the last few years.
I couldn't think of a shallower game, except for its predecessor. Somewhat less instances and being 'free 2 play' doesn't make it the best, infact, i struggle to discover what actually makes this good...a PvP leaderboard?!
if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
Or more to the point, what makes it special?
Yep i watched few of their WvW video and it seam exactly the kind of stuff i was looking for, a game where you have plenty of stuff to do at any time. This kind thing was until now more of the sandbox type of game like Uo was back then in the old days, and somehow themepark never delivered in that aspect, those games were always super boring fast because they never had that much of content. So i really look forward for at last a themepark that is worth my time and money, simply because it actually give me something to play with apart from the usual xp/quest/gear grind. And partying, playing with other seam really nice too, better than ever, so ye definitely looking forward to it.
Well said, I believe if Guild Wars 2 succeeds, that will motivate other developers to improve their games and that will be the real next evelution of mmorpg.
'based entirely around a PvP leaderboard' shows how little you knew about the first game
It had around 500-600 hours of PvE content, nearly all of which was more interesting than anything on most MMO's 
Still, that was a CORPG.
[mod edit]
Go and read about the game. Since you very obviously haven't.
start here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html
its not that i agree with every thing- but at least we can have an informed dialog from there, and OPs post in that thread is all about what makes it special.