I personally look for criticism in any game or any product for that matter, rather than praise.
Here's why:
I generally know what my expectations are of a game, hence why i am looking into it, so i know what it's advertised features are.
What isn't advertised are its faults. I do it with books too. I glance over the 5 star ratings, but what are most revealing are the 2 star ratings. If the criticisms are personal, you can overlook them and make a balanced judgement, but if they give a solid reason, then you have to review your choice.
That is why i am strongly opposed to 100% praise, where discussion isn't allowed, for a product that the vast majority haven't even seen live, as it is based purely on hype and unfounded. It doesn't help someone decide if they should try the game.
But, like we've said, there's thousands of hours of gameplay raw gameplay. Uncut. Just people playing the game. I can verify from my personal experience that it's not a lie. I've played some of those maps myself.
What isn't advertised in GW2 is a weakness? Not really. There's been plenty they haven't mentioned that's been a massive strength. Have you seen the guild system for example? They haven't talked about that and it's simply amazing. You can use guild influence to contract armourers which craft armor bearing your emblem for example. Not a single word had been mentioned about it until someone recorded it in the beta.
Crafting is GW2's biggest weakness, because it's only 'slightly better' than normal MMO's.
If we set our expectations well above what any game could achieve (not as a whole), we can pick faults in GW2 easily. For example, not every single conversation outside the personal story is fully voiced, or that not every single dynamic event has a massive effect on the world (or even much of an effect at all after completion).
But when we consider the rest of the genre? there's just nothing to criticise simply because it's better than anything this genre has seen. That's why it's so hard to pick faults. From a purely mechanical standpoint, It's the best MMO ever simply because there's not a single mechanic we've seen that's worse than the 'standard' for an MMO and most are much better.
What you could do, if you want, is go and watch all those raw gameplay videos (again bearing in mind few players make use of the combat system), read all the articles, study the mechanics and come back and suggest criticisms. Because, trust me, i've had a long time to be able to do just that, and i'm good at finding faults if they're deserving
I think the most enjoyable thing about GW2 in these forums is the fact that all the SWTOR fans used to respond to all criticism of that game with 'you just hate themeparks', or 'your a burnout, it's you not them'.
But...
Those same folks, the 'themepark haters' and 'burnouts', are from what I see just plain excited for GW2...
I guess we all didn't 'hate' themeparks... we just didn't like badly done themeparks.
And (chronologically) Tera, Rift, Aion, Warhammer, i'm sure there's more, but those ones in recent memory of a similar situations.
It just gets me down, i always look at both sides of the coin, as i like to discuss games i may want to play. Pure praise and idolation helps no one, the same as pure criticism. This thread literally has sex with GW2 before anyone has even played it, based on what the devs have said. Funnily enough, i don't think they will discuss what the game lacks. Every damn new release it's the same though, no balanced discussion, so some poor **** has to buy the game to find out himself, as no one is honest or unbiased enough to give a real opinion.
What you say has alot of truth. And yes, the trend of pre-release hype for MMOs has fallen way short of tha mark. But honestly, would you expect anything else on a GW2 forum? I also hope that beta testers give actual feedback, rather than being blind fanboys...as that will only help the game. You're always gonna have all types in a forum, it's best to try and stay neutral I suppose...but if we're being honest I am excited about this game. Will it live up to my expectation? I hope so.
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
Every time you are 'downed' a piece of your armor becomes damaged. When damaged it still functions as normal with no loss of stats.
If all your armor is damaged, the next time you are downed, a piece of armor will break becoming useless until repaired.
Hence if you are downed a lot, you will end up with no armor and be less effective in battle.
OK, this is a start, sort of like DAOC's character debuff which had to be removed by a healer, and if you let it go too far you'd really find your stats impacted (and the cost to restore them quite high). They also had a durability factor in armor which you would get repaired at an armor crafter however there was a permanent wear stat that eventually meant your item would wear out eventually. (shame everything is so simplified these days, just my opinion)
Another thing I'd like to know is if there is a 'cause' to fight for.
I realize that many people PVP for the sheer joy of it, but I'm not one of them.. I enjoy fighting for a cause, either to control territory/resources like in EVE, or defend my clan's keep as in Lineage 2, or to gain access to special areas in the game like DAOC's Darkness Falls dungeon back in the day. (DAOC also had realm relics to fight over and control which imparted special bonuses to everyone in your side)
Is there anything like this as part of GW2's World PVP?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
Every time you are 'downed' a piece of your armor becomes damaged. When damaged it still functions as normal with no loss of stats.
If all your armor is damaged, the next time you are downed, a piece of armor will break becoming useless until repaired.
Hence if you are downed a lot, you will end up with no armor and be less effective in battle.
OK, this is a start, sort of like DAOC's character debuff which had to be removed by a healer, and if you let it go too far you'd really find your stats impacted (and the cost to restore them quite high). They also had a durability factor in armor which you would get repaired at an armor crafter however there was a permanent wear stat that eventually meant your item would wear out eventually. (shame everything is so simplified these days, just my opinion)
Another thing I'd like to know is if there is a 'cause' to fight for.
I realize that many people PVP for the sheer joy of it, but I'm not one of them.. I enjoy fighting for a cause, either to control territory/resources like in EVE, or defend my clan's keep as in Lineage 2, or to gain access to special areas in the game like DAOC's Darkness Falls dungeon back in the day. (DAOC also had realm relics to fight over and control which imparted special bonuses to everyone in your side)
Is there anything like this as part of GW2's World PVP?
Sadly no AWESOME Darkness Falls, but there are orbs that are close to Relics and the winners do get a server wide buff, or buffs, what those entail i have no idea.
So yeah there is more at stake that just fighting for 2 weeks then resetting. Your server will also get rankings and depending on how well the server does it will go against harder or easier servers.
While i will sorely miss the realm pride DAoC provided, I think i can adapt to the server pride mentality.
Personally i was trying to figure out roles that certain guilds who are all about WvW.
Keep Siege, Supply line attack/defense, skirmishers. I dunno sounds like alot of roles that could be filled by single guilds or specialized groups.
I personally look for criticism in any game or any product for that matter, rather than praise.
Here's why:
I generally know what my expectations are of a game, hence why i am looking into it, so i know what it's advertised features are.
What isn't advertised are its faults. I do it with books too. I glance over the 5 star ratings, but what are most revealing are the 2 star ratings. If the criticisms are personal, you can overlook them and make a balanced judgement, but if they give a solid reason, then you have to review your choice.
That is why i am strongly opposed to 100% praise, where discussion isn't allowed, for a product that the vast majority haven't even seen live, as it is based purely on hype and unfounded. It doesn't help someone decide if they should try the game.
But, like we've said, there's thousands of hours of gameplay raw gameplay. Uncut. Just people playing the game. I can verify from my personal experience that it's not a lie. I've played some of those maps myself.
Actually your the only one claiming, 'thousands of hours of gamplay', in a hyperbolic kinda of way. Besides even if there's lots of hours of something it doesn't mean it's necessarily enjoyable. This morning I watched a video from Totalbiscuit which had, 'raw' gameplay in it. One of the quests, (sorry 'dynamic events'), involved killing lots of boars till a Champion Boar, (?!) turned up. Another involved picking grapes which had to be manually taken back to an npc. Looked pretty boring to me, highly unlike the lack of grind or fun stuff you manifesto wielding fanbois like touting. Also unless your the press you haven't played more then a few hours so you have no idea the longevity of enjoyment here.
What isn't advertised in GW2 is a weakness? Not really. There's been plenty they haven't mentioned that's been a massive strength. Have you seen the guild system for example? They haven't talked about that and it's simply amazing. You can use guild influence to contract armourers which craft armor bearing your emblem for example. Not a single word had been mentioned about it until someone recorded it in the beta
He didn't ask what hasn't been advetised in GW2 is a weakness, he asked what hasn't been mentioned are any potential weaknesses. There are those out there who have questioned some of the design choices http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27150 have a read it might be educational
Crafting is GW2's biggest weakness, because it's only 'slightly better' than normal MMO's.
If we set our expectations well above what any game could achieve (not as a whole), we can pick faults in GW2 easily. For example, not every single conversation outside the personal story is fully voiced, or that not every single dynamic event has a massive effect on the world (or even much of an effect at all after completion).
But when we consider the rest of the genre? there's just nothing to criticise simply because it's better than anything this genre has seen. That's why it's so hard to pick faults. From a purely mechanical standpoint, It's the best MMO ever simply because there's not a single mechanic we've seen that's worse than the 'standard' for an MMO and most are much better.
This makes no sense, so a flaw with GW2 is that not all story conversations are personally voiced and not all dynamic events have a massive impact but there better implementations of the ideas because......oh yes your assuming again.
What you could do, if you want, is go and watch all those raw gameplay videos (again bearing in mind few players make use of the combat system), read all the articles, study the mechanics and come back and suggest criticisms. Because, trust me, i've had a long time to be able to do just that, and i'm good at finding faults if they're deserving
Ah yes the, 'too much stuff is going on because the player playing is a noob', arguement. That may be true but I've heard a few people say that especially in some of the dungeons with effects going off, having to dodge, and use combination abilites it's at best hectic. You also can't claim that people just don't know how to play when you have limited experience yourself. The proof will be in the actual playing.
As a final note you've proved to me that have no objectivity or are incapable of finding any flaws with GW2. If you proof is based on expectations and your level of excitment based on assumptions then noone will be able to counter that. I do find it sad you have so much blind faith in a profit making business.
It does seem like that, but remember it isn't a standard MMO. I mean without a subscription and a single box price right there you should be wondering what affect that will have when compared to your normal MMO. I guess just keep your hype in check, and go into the game with an open mind and you will find hundreds of hours of fun.
Comments
But, like we've said, there's thousands of hours of gameplay
raw gameplay. Uncut. Just people playing the game. I can verify from my personal experience that it's not a lie. I've played some of those maps myself.
What isn't advertised in GW2 is a weakness? Not really. There's been plenty they haven't mentioned that's been a massive strength. Have you seen the guild system for example? They haven't talked about that and it's simply amazing. You can use guild influence to contract armourers which craft armor bearing your emblem for example. Not a single word had been mentioned about it until someone recorded it in the beta.
Crafting is GW2's biggest weakness, because it's only 'slightly better' than normal MMO's.
If we set our expectations well above what any game could achieve (not as a whole), we can pick faults in GW2 easily. For example, not every single conversation outside the personal story is fully voiced, or that not every single dynamic event has a massive effect on the world (or even much of an effect at all after completion).
But when we consider the rest of the genre? there's just nothing to criticise simply because it's better than anything this genre has seen. That's why it's so hard to pick faults. From a purely mechanical standpoint, It's the best MMO ever simply because there's not a single mechanic we've seen that's worse than the 'standard' for an MMO and most are much better.
What you could do, if you want, is go and watch all those raw gameplay videos (again bearing in mind few players make use of the combat system), read all the articles, study the mechanics and come back and suggest criticisms. Because, trust me, i've had a long time to be able to do just that, and i'm good at finding faults if they're deserving
What you say has alot of truth. And yes, the trend of pre-release hype for MMOs has fallen way short of tha mark. But honestly, would you expect anything else on a GW2 forum? I also hope that beta testers give actual feedback, rather than being blind fanboys...as that will only help the game. You're always gonna have all types in a forum, it's best to try and stay neutral I suppose...but if we're being honest I am excited about this game. Will it live up to my expectation? I hope so.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
OK, this is a start, sort of like DAOC's character debuff which had to be removed by a healer, and if you let it go too far you'd really find your stats impacted (and the cost to restore them quite high). They also had a durability factor in armor which you would get repaired at an armor crafter however there was a permanent wear stat that eventually meant your item would wear out eventually. (shame everything is so simplified these days, just my opinion)
Another thing I'd like to know is if there is a 'cause' to fight for.
I realize that many people PVP for the sheer joy of it, but I'm not one of them.. I enjoy fighting for a cause, either to control territory/resources like in EVE, or defend my clan's keep as in Lineage 2, or to gain access to special areas in the game like DAOC's Darkness Falls dungeon back in the day. (DAOC also had realm relics to fight over and control which imparted special bonuses to everyone in your side)
Is there anything like this as part of GW2's World PVP?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sadly no AWESOME Darkness Falls, but there are orbs that are close to Relics and the winners do get a server wide buff, or buffs, what those entail i have no idea.
So yeah there is more at stake that just fighting for 2 weeks then resetting. Your server will also get rankings and depending on how well the server does it will go against harder or easier servers.
While i will sorely miss the realm pride DAoC provided, I think i can adapt to the server pride mentality.
Personally i was trying to figure out roles that certain guilds who are all about WvW.
Keep Siege, Supply line attack/defense, skirmishers. I dunno sounds like alot of roles that could be filled by single guilds or specialized groups.
Lolipops !
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
It does seem like that, but remember it isn't a standard MMO. I mean without a subscription and a single box price right there you should be wondering what affect that will have when compared to your normal MMO. I guess just keep your hype in check, and go into the game with an open mind and you will find hundreds of hours of fun.