Originally posted by jondifool Originally posted by Vegetto
Originally posted by jondifool if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite? Or more to the point, what makes it special? start here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html its not that i agree with every thing- but at least we can have an informed dialog from there, and OPs post in that thread is all about what makes it special.
So, to summarize, it's what has come before, but with the mechanics tweaked to make it more fun?
GW2 is the current middle stepping stone for innovation. try as you might TSW is more innovative. but GW2 taking the middle ground between Traditional gameing and next gen gaming is something that needs to be there. people who dont want to do a huge jump to next gen wont like TSW. too much has changed, i theorize that Guild Wars 2 will get alot of that demographic. I have no doubt in that fact what so ever. also don't forget GW2 supporters are as tenatious as Ron Paul Supporters. they could make the game as cookie cutter as it gets and the GW2 supporters would jump all over it. i for one, am happy they aren't doing that and are willing to release a game that is taking afew steps forward.
I understand you're probably a big fan of TSW, which is all good...to each his own. But inferring that GW2 innovation is minor, is a gross understatement. Make no mistake, there's alot of innovation coming to the table with this title. That's not me as a fanboy putting that out there, that's me as an MMO gamer for the past 10 years. They aren't literally innovating EVERYTHING, but the innovations they ARE making are breakthroughs for the genre.
Originally posted by jondifool if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
its not that i agree with every thing- but at least we can have an informed dialog from there, and OPs post in that thread is all about what makes it special.
So, to summarize, it's what has come before, but with the mechanics tweaked to make it more fun?
'tweaked' is a gross understatement, but it is a logical evolution of where you would expect MMO's to evolve to If we didn't see the genre stagnate after WoW, we'd expect other games to be like this. It's like Arenanet were always going to make the 'next gen' MMO even if no-one else wanted to.
There seriously is a lot to read about and it is certainly worth your time if you even remotely like MMO's, which i assume you do Also, sorry for being harsh in the last post >< It just annoys me sometimes when people don't read up on a game but then come in telling others to essentially justify the game to them You probably didn't mean it that way though looking at it again.
I couldn't think of a shallower game, except for its predecessor. Somewhat less instances and being 'free 2 play' doesn't make it the best, infact, i struggle to discover what actually makes this good...a PvP leaderboard?!
Do your research. I agree though, not having to sink $15 a month into the game is a definite drawback...lolwat???
Originally posted by jondifool if you think GW1 was a shallow game , no wonder you struggle to discover what is going to make GW2 good. Is there a point in trying to inform you of the possibilities of gw2 if this is your starting point ?
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
its not that i agree with every thing- but at least we can have an informed dialog from there, and OPs post in that thread is all about what makes it special.
So, to summarize, it's what has come before, but with the mechanics tweaked to make it more fun?
[mod edit] have you actually bothered to research this game? That's an honest question. I understand, it might not be your cup of tea, which is fine...but you keep making comparisons and assertions that are completely off base.
Ok, it's going to be the best MMO ever made...again. Lets leave it at that.
Noone is saying that man (at least i'm not). You're just making statements that, based off of what we know of GW2 (footage, actual play time, press info, etc..), are patently false. I'm really not trying to flame you. You're here for a reason...so my question is, do you want information or are you just trolling? I know about the 'hype machine', i've been an MMO gamer for a very long time...followed lots of 'the next big things'. But everything i've seen and read about GW2 holds promise, that's all...not claiming that is the gaming messiah we've all been waiting on. Up to this point, I haven't seen anything that's made me think, "Oh, there we go...more of the same shit". Quite contrary to that in fact.
Originally posted by Vegetto Ok, it's going to be the best MMO ever made...again. Lets leave it at that.
Why are you people so narrow minded its just so amazing sometime. GW2 is just a single game, they are many great games, some have totally different setting and give totally different experience type. GW2 seam more of the pvp casual type of mmo, but at least it seam good at it. They are other hardcore pvp, or sandbox type of games that are also great, some more role play oriented or whatever. Just people stop with this stupid WOW syndrome as if at any time only one single game was on top of like a pyramid, reality is a bit more complex than that for god sake. The fact GW2 seam like a good game, doesn't mean there is only this one on hearth damn it.
I have been a person who has been pro gw2 for a long time now, for the reason that at least the dev.s get it. (unlike war40k who came out early stating 2 sides , attempted wow clone is their goal.) Anet has at least take good ideas, and tossed out weak ones.
This always comes with a risk tho.
And i feel Anet has made a massive mistake, massive.
They gave the game replay value in questing, and level, while at the same time destoryed it for level new characters.
How could this be, sounds liek i said the same thing twice. See While i apluad the effort a roleless class system destorys peopel rolling alts. (Sure they might roll one or two.) All in all, unlike Eq, DAOC, TBC and pre WoW you often roled different toons to experinces different roles (well this drive simply doesn't exsist in GW2), others for differents classes (Does exsist in gw2, but they are not that different).
None of this means i don't think GW2 will not be amazing, as i have been sure it will be. But what it does mean is less interest in playing the game , at least in the long term. Had GW2 went the route daoc, eq, etc. did with unquie spefific roles and playstyles, i would argue today that no other mmo would top it in popularity ever.
I understand that free loot, everyone equal, easy class choices , everyone master of all trades, seems attractive; but the human mind is a fickle thing and it enjoys odd things. Ask yourselves thing if any of you played other mmos of old, would you re-roll other classes if your class did everything other classes do? And if so, (i would), would you re-roll / play as much ? (I wouldn't, i cannot tell you how many characters i had in daoc and eq for this reason alone).
Agian, this is still the mmo i have been waiting for , but it saddens me that it has this crucial design flaw.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have been a person who has been pro gw2 for a long time now, for the reason that at least the dev.s get it. (unlike war40k who came out early stating 2 sides , attempted wow clone is their goal.) Anet has at least take good ideas, and tossed out weak ones.
This always comes with a risk tho.
And i feel Anet has made a massive mistake, massive.
They gave the game replay value in questing, and level, while at the same time destoryed it for level new characters.
How could this be, sounds liek i said the same thing twice. See While i apluad the effort a roleless class system destorys peopel rolling alts. (Sure they might roll one or two.) All in all, unlike Eq, DAOC, TBC and pre WoW you often roled different toons to experinces different roles (well this drive simply doesn't exsist in GW2), others for differents classes (Does exsist in gw2, but they are not that different).
None of this means i don't think GW2 will not be amazing, as i have been sure it will be. But what it does mean is less interest in playing the game , at least in the long term. Had GW2 went the route daoc, eq, etc. did with unquie spefific roles and playstyles, i would argue today that no other mmo would top it in popularity ever.
I understand that free loot, everyone equal, easy class choices , everyone master of all trades, seems attractive; but the human mind is a fickle thing and it enjoys odd things. Ask yourselves thing if any of you played other mmos of old, would you re-roll other classes if your class did everything other classes do? And if so, (i would), would you re-roll / play as much ? (I wouldn't, i cannot tell you how many characters i had in daoc and eq for this reason alone).
Agian, this is still the mmo i have been waiting for , but it saddens me that it has this crucial design flaw.
As I understand the trait system, builds will vary quite alot. From what I have seen, you can spec to zero in on more specific roles for a given toon. I'd suggest checking out the trait system.
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing. That would be a consequence for dying.
I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
Thats ok because PvP is an option, Cant really comment on how the PvP will pan out, but going what PvP videos I've seen from the weekend, it looks if it could be more than just Fighting other players, and that there could be some strategy in there aswel.
TSW might be a good game and all, but you shouldn't take his words seriously, especially when he claimed before how GW2 and TERA were just the same old MMOs we've been playing for years...
I'm really looking forward to GW2. What i liked about GW1 was that there was loads of things to do, and yet i didn't need to spend all my time gearing up my character, i could just do the things that i liked. And when i returned after a break from a couple of months, there was almost always new content to do, and i could immediatly do all of it because i didn't have to gear up my character first.
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
From what i've read, there will be an attrition mechanic of some kind. Seems to be some sort of 'armor repair' thing. As to whether or not that will apply to PvP, remains to be seen.
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
Every time you are 'downed' a piece of your armor becomes damaged. When damaged it still functions as normal with no loss of stats.
If all your armor is damaged, the next time you are downed, a piece of armor will break becoming useless until repaired.
Hence if you are downed a lot, you will end up with no armor and be less effective in battle.
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
Something to be said for this both in terms of serious aficionado of pvp, but also in ArenaNet's implementation of penalties for being successfully downed/finished and removed.
Maybe:
1) Penalty to player killed in addition to armour attrition (#'s game here in WvW?)
2) Buff to player that is able to finish off a player?
Kyleran has a point, some way to make players anticipate in a way that breaks up: "Fight-fight-fight..."
I'm guessing WvWvW will have a lot of WIP, just as WAR's RvR did, although not working with shoddy foundations this time around!
I have been a person who has been pro gw2 for a long time now, for the reason that at least the dev.s get it. (unlike war40k who came out early stating 2 sides , attempted wow clone is their goal.) Anet has at least take good ideas, and tossed out weak ones.
This always comes with a risk tho.
And i feel Anet has made a massive mistake, massive.
They gave the game replay value in questing, and level, while at the same time destoryed it for level new characters.
How could this be, sounds liek i said the same thing twice. See While i apluad the effort a roleless class system destorys peopel rolling alts. (Sure they might roll one or two.) All in all, unlike Eq, DAOC, TBC and pre WoW you often roled different toons to experinces different roles (well this drive simply doesn't exsist in GW2), others for differents classes (Does exsist in gw2, but they are not that different).
None of this means i don't think GW2 will not be amazing, as i have been sure it will be. But what it does mean is less interest in playing the game , at least in the long term. Had GW2 went the route daoc, eq, etc. did with unquie spefific roles and playstyles, i would argue today that no other mmo would top it in popularity ever.
I understand that free loot, everyone equal, easy class choices , everyone master of all trades, seems attractive; but the human mind is a fickle thing and it enjoys odd things. Ask yourselves thing if any of you played other mmos of old, would you re-roll other classes if your class did everything other classes do? And if so, (i would), would you re-roll / play as much ? (I wouldn't, i cannot tell you how many characters i had in daoc and eq for this reason alone).
Agian, this is still the mmo i have been waiting for , but it saddens me that it has this crucial design flaw.
The Personal Story gives all kinds of incentive for new characters, as there's approximately 15 versions of it available. One question of your biography (human birth, charr legion, etc) is going to affect it to a vast degree while the others affect it somewhat.
The other thing too is that while every profession can do everything to a degree, they do it in different ways. Not only does every class have unique mechanics, they're just going to play differently. One thing I often try to call attention to is that even though each class has a self heal, that self heal can have a totally different secondary effect depending on the class. A warrior's might give adrenaline letting it be used offensively. A thief's might also provide stealth or a blackflip out of danger. A necromancer's might be a lifetapping minion which you can sacrifice for health. Differences in playstyle are going to make rolling new characters attractive.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
The above and add to that the lack of a seamless open world like Azeroth.
Hopping through 5 portals and 5 loading graphics screens to go from the Barrens to Tanaris (sorry just using names you all know) is NOT exactly the game I am waiting for.
Seamless world background loading is standard in the biggest MMO club these days and pretty much standard of what I expect from a new MMORPG of a so called NEW generation in which EXPLORING takes place.
You might as well install and load up Call of Duty Maps if you are pleased with these techniques.
It is a regression of 7 years and counting. I am not against the use of an alternative route of fast travel, but having a loading screen as the ONLY option to jump from one point to another is kind of ... lazy programming.
Not even talking about the absence of fast transportation like ... horses.
Nah this game is just in its hype up phase. Every game that is unpublished is the best one, everyone knows that by now.
Hmmm...regression of 7 years, huh? Okay, name off all the MMOs that offer a seamless world without the need for loading screens. Bear in mind, WoW is 7-8 years old running on the most current hardware, which certainly doesn't hurt its ability to be seamless.
The thing that jumps out to me the most is that developers always say their game is 'different'. It seems that, as confirmed by this weekend, Guild Wars 2 actually is.
Exactly how I feel.
I won't jump to any conclusions but I can say that I wait with baited breath
SO you guys actually played it, or did you read it in an article?
The thing that jumps out to me the most is that developers always say their game is 'different'. It seems that, as confirmed by this weekend, Guild Wars 2 actually is.
Exactly how I feel.
I won't jump to any conclusions but I can say that I wait with baited breath
SO you guys actually played it, or did you read it in an article?
Many of us have at gamecons and such. Do some research, you'll find out how it's different from the norm. No trinity, no traditional 'questing', no endgame raids, no gear grind, no PvE requirements to participate in PvP, etc...I could go on. It's quite obvious that it's different. The only real question is how that will be received by gamers when it launches.
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
The above and add to that the lack of a seamless open world like Azeroth.
Hopping through 5 portals and 5 loading graphics screens to go from the Barrens to Tanaris (sorry just using names you all know) is NOT exactly the game I am waiting for.
Seamless world background loading is standard in the biggest MMO club these days and pretty much standard of what I expect from a new MMORPG of a so called NEW generation in which EXPLORING takes place.
You might as well install and load up Call of Duty Maps if you are pleased with these techniques.
It is a regression of 7 years and counting. I am not against the use of an alternative route of fast travel, but having a loading screen as the ONLY option to jump from one point to another is kind of ... lazy programming.
Not even talking about the absence of fast transportation like ... horses.
Nah this game is just in its hype up phase. Every game that is unpublished is the best one, everyone knows that by now.
Hmmm...regression of 7 years, huh? Okay, name off all the MMOs that offer a seamless world without the need for loading screens. Bear in mind, WoW is 7-8 years old running on the most current hardware, which certainly doesn't hurt its ability to be seamless.
Blizzard already evolved : they deleted the zoning, they added real 3D in Azerorth. You can freely fly over 10 - 25 zones per continent and go anywhere.
Now I am not saying they need to include flying etc, but the fact they go to loading screens instead of a seamless open world is a clear regression.
We ARE talking about a NEW generation of mmorpg and the first thing you see is "loading screens" to go anywhere.
Sorry but that's a huge bummer for the NEW generation. Combine it with the fight, fight, fight condition we talked about above and you see it is more than a trivial fact...
Got it. So WoW is your only example of this 'staple of current MMOs' you speak of?
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing.
That would be a consequence for dying. I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
The above and add to that the lack of a seamless open world like Azeroth.
Hopping through 5 portals and 5 loading graphics screens to go from the Barrens to Tanaris (sorry just using names you all know) is NOT exactly the game I am waiting for.
Seamless world background loading is standard in the biggest MMO club these days and pretty much standard of what I expect from a new MMORPG of a so called NEW generation in which EXPLORING takes place.
You might as well install and load up Call of Duty Maps if you are pleased with these techniques.
It is a regression of 7 years and counting. I am not against the use of an alternative route of fast travel, but having a loading screen as the ONLY option to jump from one point to another is kind of ... lazy programming.
Not even talking about the absence of fast transportation like ... horses.
Nah this game is just in its hype up phase. Every game that is unpublished is the best one, everyone knows that by now.
Hmmm...regression of 7 years, huh? Okay, name off all the MMOs that offer a seamless world without the need for loading screens. Bear in mind, WoW is 7-8 years old running on the most current hardware, which certainly doesn't hurt its ability to be seamless.
Blizzard already evolved : they deleted the zoning, they added real 3D in Azerorth. You can freely fly over 10 - 25 zones per continent and go anywhere.
Now I am not saying they need to include flying etc, but the fact they go to loading screens instead of a seamless open world is a clear regression.
We ARE talking about a NEW generation of mmorpg and the first thing you see is "loading screens" to go anywhere.
Sorry but that's a huge bummer for the NEW generation. Combine it with the fight, fight, fight condition we talked about above and you see it is more than a trivial fact...
Got it. So WoW is your only example of this 'staple of current MMOs' you speak of?
In the basic world design of Azeroth ? Yes. I am not talking about raids or instances.
But in Azeroth as a world: yes. And I am sure anyone ever walking in that world will take it over ANY loading graphics screen as such.
So WoW has done it, this I know. My point is, almost every other MMO on the market, both current and old, have some sort of loading involved. While I agree, it would be cool as hell if Tyria were completely seamless, it isn't the end-all, be-all for me. To tear GW2 up for not having a seamless world, when your only example of this is WoW, seems a bit nitpicky. But again, to each his own. We still don't even really know how gigantic these maps are. From everything i've read and seen, they are massive. Personally, this is one thing that I am in wait and see mode about, as I will only really know when i'm actually playing it myself.
Comments
Would you say a collection of instances based entirely around a PvP leaderboard is on the deeper scale in comparison to current MMOs or the opposite?
Or more to the point, what makes it special?
start here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html
its not that i agree with every thing- but at least we can have an informed dialog from there, and OPs post in that thread is all about what makes it special.
So, to summarize, it's what has come before, but with the mechanics tweaked to make it more fun?
I understand you're probably a big fan of TSW, which is all good...to each his own. But inferring that GW2 innovation is minor, is a gross understatement. Make no mistake, there's alot of innovation coming to the table with this title. That's not me as a fanboy putting that out there, that's me as an MMO gamer for the past 10 years. They aren't literally innovating EVERYTHING, but the innovations they ARE making are breakthroughs for the genre.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
'tweaked' is a gross understatement, but it is a logical evolution of where you would expect MMO's to evolve to
If we didn't see the genre stagnate after WoW, we'd expect other games to be like this. It's like Arenanet were always going to make the 'next gen' MMO even if no-one else wanted to.
There seriously is a lot to read about and it is certainly worth your time if you even remotely like MMO's, which i assume you do
Also, sorry for being harsh in the last post >< It just annoys me sometimes when people don't read up on a game but then come in telling others to essentially justify the game to them 
You probably didn't mean it that way though looking at it again.
Do your research. I agree though, not having to sink $15 a month into the game is a definite drawback...lolwat???
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
[mod edit] have you actually bothered to research this game? That's an honest question. I understand, it might not be your cup of tea, which is fine...but you keep making comparisons and assertions that are completely off base.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Ok, it's going to be the best MMO ever made...again. Lets leave it at that.
Noone is saying that man (at least i'm not). You're just making statements that, based off of what we know of GW2 (footage, actual play time, press info, etc..), are patently false. I'm really not trying to flame you. You're here for a reason...so my question is, do you want information or are you just trolling? I know about the 'hype machine', i've been an MMO gamer for a very long time...followed lots of 'the next big things'. But everything i've seen and read about GW2 holds promise, that's all...not claiming that is the gaming messiah we've all been waiting on. Up to this point, I haven't seen anything that's made me think, "Oh, there we go...more of the same shit". Quite contrary to that in fact.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Why are you people so narrow minded its just so amazing sometime. GW2 is just a single game, they are many great games, some have totally different setting and give totally different experience type. GW2 seam more of the pvp casual type of mmo, but at least it seam good at it. They are other hardcore pvp, or sandbox type of games that are also great, some more role play oriented or whatever. Just people stop with this stupid WOW syndrome as if at any time only one single game was on top of like a pyramid, reality is a bit more complex than that for god sake. The fact GW2 seam like a good game, doesn't mean there is only this one on hearth damn it.
I have been a person who has been pro gw2 for a long time now, for the reason that at least the dev.s get it. (unlike war40k who came out early stating 2 sides , attempted wow clone is their goal.) Anet has at least take good ideas, and tossed out weak ones.
This always comes with a risk tho.
And i feel Anet has made a massive mistake, massive.
They gave the game replay value in questing, and level, while at the same time destoryed it for level new characters.
How could this be, sounds liek i said the same thing twice. See While i apluad the effort a roleless class system destorys peopel rolling alts. (Sure they might roll one or two.) All in all, unlike Eq, DAOC, TBC and pre WoW you often roled different toons to experinces different roles (well this drive simply doesn't exsist in GW2), others for differents classes (Does exsist in gw2, but they are not that different).
None of this means i don't think GW2 will not be amazing, as i have been sure it will be. But what it does mean is less interest in playing the game , at least in the long term. Had GW2 went the route daoc, eq, etc. did with unquie spefific roles and playstyles, i would argue today that no other mmo would top it in popularity ever.
I understand that free loot, everyone equal, easy class choices , everyone master of all trades, seems attractive; but the human mind is a fickle thing and it enjoys odd things. Ask yourselves thing if any of you played other mmos of old, would you re-roll other classes if your class did everything other classes do? And if so, (i would), would you re-roll / play as much ? (I wouldn't, i cannot tell you how many characters i had in daoc and eq for this reason alone).
Agian, this is still the mmo i have been waiting for , but it saddens me that it has this crucial design flaw.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
As I understand the trait system, builds will vary quite alot. From what I have seen, you can spec to zero in on more specific roles for a given toon. I'd suggest checking out the trait system.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Now it could just be the fact that I haven't done much research, and while I really like most everything I've read so far, there seems to be one key element (at least for me) missing. That would be a consequence for dying.
I prefer MMO's that are designed more like real life where it is more important to make sure you win the fight and live to tell the tale. (A la EVE)
Even DAOC had penalties for dying including a loss of stats which had to be restored for a small, but still consequential amount of gold. You also were penalized by being kept out of the fight for a period of time (anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes) and I'm not really seeing any mention of mechanics like this.
My concern is the PVP in GW2 is going to be mostly fight, fight, fight which I'm not much a fan of.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thats ok because PvP is an option, Cant really comment on how the PvP will pan out, but going what PvP videos I've seen from the weekend, it looks if it could be more than just Fighting other players, and that there could be some strategy in there aswel.
I await a Demon's Souls MMO, but hopefully this should do until then =D
Don't mind Vegetto, he's just a TSW fan.
TSW might be a good game and all, but you shouldn't take his words seriously, especially when he claimed before how GW2 and TERA were just the same old MMOs we've been playing for years...
I'm really looking forward to GW2. What i liked about GW1 was that there was loads of things to do, and yet i didn't need to spend all my time gearing up my character, i could just do the things that i liked. And when i returned after a break from a couple of months, there was almost always new content to do, and i could immediatly do all of it because i didn't have to gear up my character first.
From what i've read, there will be an attrition mechanic of some kind. Seems to be some sort of 'armor repair' thing. As to whether or not that will apply to PvP, remains to be seen.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Every time you are 'downed' a piece of your armor becomes damaged. When damaged it still functions as normal with no loss of stats.
If all your armor is damaged, the next time you are downed, a piece of armor will break becoming useless until repaired.
Hence if you are downed a lot, you will end up with no armor and be less effective in battle.
For years we have been exercising for our fun by running on the proverbial treadmills of standard MMO design.
ArenaNet have looked at the treadmills and said; "Here's a Playground instead. Run around and have fun! PvP is over by the swing set."
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Something to be said for this both in terms of serious aficionado of pvp, but also in ArenaNet's implementation of penalties for being successfully downed/finished and removed.
Maybe:
1) Penalty to player killed in addition to armour attrition (#'s game here in WvW?)
2) Buff to player that is able to finish off a player?
Kyleran has a point, some way to make players anticipate in a way that breaks up: "Fight-fight-fight..."
I'm guessing WvWvW will have a lot of WIP, just as WAR's RvR did, although not working with shoddy foundations this time around!
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Otherwise: GW2 is GOLD.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
The Personal Story gives all kinds of incentive for new characters, as there's approximately 15 versions of it available. One question of your biography (human birth, charr legion, etc) is going to affect it to a vast degree while the others affect it somewhat.
The other thing too is that while every profession can do everything to a degree, they do it in different ways. Not only does every class have unique mechanics, they're just going to play differently. One thing I often try to call attention to is that even though each class has a self heal, that self heal can have a totally different secondary effect depending on the class. A warrior's might give adrenaline letting it be used offensively. A thief's might also provide stealth or a blackflip out of danger. A necromancer's might be a lifetapping minion which you can sacrifice for health. Differences in playstyle are going to make rolling new characters attractive.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Hmmm...regression of 7 years, huh? Okay, name off all the MMOs that offer a seamless world without the need for loading screens. Bear in mind, WoW is 7-8 years old running on the most current hardware, which certainly doesn't hurt its ability to be seamless.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
SO you guys actually played it, or did you read it in an article?
I am afraid it will not be once we're playing it
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Many of us have at gamecons and such. Do some research, you'll find out how it's different from the norm. No trinity, no traditional 'questing', no endgame raids, no gear grind, no PvE requirements to participate in PvP, etc...I could go on. It's quite obvious that it's different. The only real question is how that will be received by gamers when it launches.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
Got it. So WoW is your only example of this 'staple of current MMOs' you speak of?
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
So WoW has done it, this I know. My point is, almost every other MMO on the market, both current and old, have some sort of loading involved. While I agree, it would be cool as hell if Tyria were completely seamless, it isn't the end-all, be-all for me. To tear GW2 up for not having a seamless world, when your only example of this is WoW, seems a bit nitpicky. But again, to each his own. We still don't even really know how gigantic these maps are. From everything i've read and seen, they are massive. Personally, this is one thing that I am in wait and see mode about, as I will only really know when i'm actually playing it myself.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server