Lol buddy I know you are pointing out that the force is a trait just like beign red-headed. BUT if we humans had a trait like the force in real life it would be much more special than red-headed, even if there were many force users. If you have red hair you are the as usefull as someone with blonde hair, the same does not apply with force-sensitivity...
If a lot of us had it would we think its special?
No?
Ok.
Special is irrelevant, what Im trying to point out is the fact that a force user will be "normal", "special", whatever you want to call it. Over a non force user.
Originally posted by Kuppa Lol buddy I know you are pointing out that the force is a trait just like beign red-headed. BUT if we humans had a trait like the force in real life it would be much more special than red-headed, even if there were many force users. If you have red hair you are the as usefull as someone with blonde hair, the same does not apply with force-sensitivity...
I think its great that Bioware is expanding on character abilities, this adds tons of customization in character progression, but as Sovrath has said, if everyone is special, than nobody is.
I get what Sovrath is saying, but that's all something we won't know much about til' later.
But I WOULD be bold enough to speculate that whatever cross-class powers you can choose from, it won't be some smorgasbord of being able to pick the "best powers" of X class, Y class, and Z class.
Matter of fact, I would bet that any that you choose will probably be more about visual effect than utility.
For example, you may be able to pick the Smuggler's ranged stun power as a Trooper, but will probably be on the same CD as your Trooper's own ranged stun power.
I think its great that Bioware is expanding on character abilities, this adds tons of customization in character progression, but as Sovrath has said, if everyone is special, than nobody is.
I get what Sovrath is saying, but that's all something we won't know much about til' later.
But I WOULD be bold enough to speculate that whatever cross-class powers you can choose from, it won't be some smorgasbord of being able to pick the "best powers" of X class, Y class, and Z class.
Matter of fact, I would bet that any that you choose will probably be more about visual effect than utility.
For example, you may be able to pick the Smuggler's ranged stun power as a Trooper, but will probably be on the same CD as your Trooper's own ranged stun power.
Could be wrong... only speculating.
Now that would be useless.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Willing to look past your "super hero averageness" doesn't diminish the fact that you're like everyone else which makes you plain.
A world where everyone is a super hero is a world where everyone is the same, common and average which defies the definition of "super" and "hero".
So then why play Assassin's creed? I mean everyone who plays it is the hero.
Why play Skyrim?
why play any game?
they all make you the hero.
In a Super Hero MMO guess what? EVERYONES A SUPER HERO! But how? I mean you can only have one right?
Here lets use a definition to settle this
A hero (heroine is usually used for females) (Ancient Greek: ?ρως, h?r?s), in Greek mythology and folklore, was originally a demigod, their cult being one of the most distinctive features of ancient Greek religion.[1] Later, hero (male) and heroine (female) came to refer to characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice—that is, heroism—for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence. - Wikipedia.
Now what we're looking at is the "Came to reference characters who in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will to self sacrafice"
I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number.
There is also the difference between being able to force choke someone once every so often for a few seconds across a few meters and being a full-blown Sith Sorcerer.
The IA's Ensign what's-her-face companion also has one or two force abilities, so this mixing is already present.
So today I was walking around my couch and stubbed my toe *hard*. I started to sit back, intending to sit on the floor for a minute and ended up landing against the corner of a table in the middle of my back.
Well the table jerked wildly, knocking the lamp over. The lightbulb in the lamp broke and scared the crap out of my cat.
The cat ran straight for the bar to my left and tried to climb up part of a towel hanging over and ended up pulling it down, which caused the big ass bible on top of it to come down and land right on my head.
So i was like, "this is crazy shit!" I'm hurt all over, got bible thumped and my toe still hurts 3 hours later.
I think it's because I didn't go to church last Sunday. Or any day for the last 25 to 30 years. Dunno.
Anyway, i thought that was relevant to the discussion.
There is also the difference between being able to force choke someone once every so often for a few seconds across a few meters and being a full-blown Sith Sorcerer.
The IA's Ensign what's-her-face companion also has one or two force abilities, so this mixing is already present.
yeah for instance you cannot talent force choak as a bouty hunter can ya?
Or talent a flame thrower modifier as a Sith inquisitor.
Willing to look past your "super hero averageness" doesn't diminish the fact that you're like everyone else which makes you plain.
A world where everyone is a super hero is a world where everyone is the same, common and average which defies the definition of "super" and "hero".
So then why play Assassin's creed? I mean everyone who plays it is the hero.
Why play Skyrim?
why play any game?
they all make you the hero.
In a Super Hero MMO guess what? EVERYONES A SUPER HERO! But how? I mean you can only have one right?
Here lets use a definition to settle this
A hero (heroine is usually used for females) (Ancient Greek: ?ρως, h?r?s), in Greek mythology and folklore, was originally a demigod, their cult being one of the most distinctive features of ancient Greek religion.[1] Later, hero (male) and heroine (female) came to refer to characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice—that is, heroism—for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence. - Wikipedia.
Now what we're looking at is the "Came to reference characters who in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will to self sacrafice"
I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number.
Really? So, you believe that every living being on the planet is a hero?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Really? So, you believe that every living being on the planet is a hero?
Nope, I believe that heroic actions are not dictated or limited by the number of people who are taking part of them.
World war 2 vets are Heroes.
See?
Then you just contradicted yourself:
"I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number."
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Originally posted by Zekiah As was stated, when everyone is special, nobody is. If everyone is an "EPIC HERO" then nobody is, they're just average, like everyone else.
again, simply untrue.
Ok so we have Me, I'll be the Sith Inquisitor, I'm a member of the dark council and a powerful Sith force user. then we have my friend, hes ALSO a member of the dark council, hes a sith warrior, and a very powerful force user, both of us have a lot of stories about how strong and powerful we are under our belts.
Both of us are Heroes, and we go out and do heroic things together.
This doesn't detract from our heroisim. Rather adds to it. Just because there are other heros around you does not lessen how heroic you are.
Have you played Star Wars TOR? I mean it really makes a lot of sense if you do a Flash point, as everyone in your party is an epic hero including you, yet it surely doesn't detract from what happens or lessens how heroic you feel.
Again, there are a lot of people (NPCS) in the story who have very little or no power at all.
If your problem is merely that other players are heroes too... well then you are probably playing the wrong game / genre of games.
I guess what I was trying to say was that not everyone in the Star Wars universe is force sensative. Han, Chewbaca, and others were heroes based on their skills and actions in the story, only a couple were force users. I can see that Bioware is trying to give players more options and that is cool, but do they have to do it at the expense of taking others uniqueness by giving these skills to others? Why not create other unique skills to unlock?
Really? So, you believe that every living being on the planet is a hero?
Nope, I believe that heroic actions are not dictated or limited by the number of people who are taking part of them.
World war 2 vets are Heroes.
See?
Then you just contradicted yourself:
"I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number."
actually I just agreed with myself...
You should re read what I posted...
Heroes ARE NOT limited in number.
Heroic actions are not divided up the number of people taking part in them.
Heroic actions are not lessened when more people take part in them.
Heroic actions are inherantly heroic, and if someone does them, they possess heroic qualities.
Then you probably shouldn't have said "nope".
Ok then, so everyone on the planet is a closet-hero? Waiting for the right time to change outfits?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I guess what I was trying to say was that not everyone in the Star Wars universe is force sensative. Han, Chewbaca, and others were heroes based on their skills and actions in the story, only a couple were force users. I can see that Bioware is trying to give players more options and that is cool, but do they have to do it at the expense of taking others uniqueness by giving these skills to others? Why not create other unique skills to unlock?
This is 3 thousand years earlier, before several purges of ALL force sensitives that the people purging could find.
Anakin skywalker killed tens of thousands of force sensitives.
Darth Bane did too.
Many many purges of force sensitives happened by the empire over those thousands of years.
You do not get to fully CHOOSE which of a class' abilities is made available to your alts....
If you level a Sith Warrior & complete chapters 1-3 you UNLOCK Force Choke only, you ca't select which you get.
Similarly if you did the same with a Bounty Hunter you UNLOCK Flamethrower.
It's what BioWare decided you can have.
That makes sense. I'd like to have something cool but not overpowering, and those 2 things are certainly pretty cool. And in most cases, they will be less powerful than the original classes version, since no tree enhancements will be available(?).
Ok then, so everyone on the planet is a closet-hero? Waiting for the right time to change outfits?
Again, a heroic action is heroic in nature, thats how its defined by websters sir, you can invent your own definition if you like... but thats how it is defined.
if 10 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 100 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 1000
if 100000
if 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
You do not get to fully CHOOSE which of a class' abilities is made available to your alts....
If you level a Sith Warrior & complete chapters 1-3 you UNLOCK Force Choke only, you ca't select which you get.
Similarly if you did the same with a Bounty Hunter you UNLOCK Flamethrower.
It's what BioWare decided you can have.
That makes sense. I'd like to have something cool but not overpowering, and those 2 things are certainly pretty cool. And in most cases, they will be less powerful than the original classes version, since no tree enhancements will be available(?).
And do you think the player base is going to be content with "fluff" powers? I think not.
I can't wait to see this snowball at the end of the hill.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ok then, so everyone on the planet is a closet-hero? Waiting for the right time to change outfits?
Again, a heroic action is heroic in nature, thats how its defined by websters sir, you can invent your own definition if you like... but thats how it is defined.
if 10 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 100 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 1000
if 100000
if 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
the number does not mater, the action does.
So, yes or no, do you believe everyone on the planet is a hero in waiting?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ok then, so everyone on the planet is a closet-hero? Waiting for the right time to change outfits?
Again, a heroic action is heroic in nature, thats how its defined by websters sir, you can invent your own definition if you like... but thats how it is defined.
if 10 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 100 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 1000
if 100000
if 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
the number does not mater, the action does.
So, yes or no, do you believe everyone on the planet is a hero in waiting?
Answer me this.
If one person dies for his country is he a hero? Well since it is self sacrafice, by definition, yes he is.
now if 10,000 people die for their country, are they not heroes?
Ill be honest not everone in tor is gonna be a hero, my inquisitor is no hero. Hes a villiam in every sense of the word, He goes aroudn tourturing and killing for fun
Hes not a hero at all. I have no issue with this and im much more interested in the unlockable races then i am the abilities , i may or may not unlock,
If i have to choose id choose a mailbox or access to the global trade network before id choose force choke for my bh, This in no way goes against cannon
there are force users in the star wars unviers that are neither jedi or sith, If u dont know this u know nothing about star wars. Have the ability to tap into a force power every so often because u are untrained or have some sensitivity but not alot isnt a big deal at all
I find it funny most of the people compalining dont even play tor hell most of them are so busy blasting the game over everything its kinda funny
If u arent playing the game i dont care what u think of this system to be honest,.
That makes sense. I'd like to have something cool but not overpowering, and those 2 things are certainly pretty cool. And in most cases, they will be less powerful than the original classes version, since no tree enhancements will be available(?).
And do you think the player base is going to be content with "fluff" powers? I think not.
I can't wait to see this snowball at the end of the hill.
We're talking about one feature in the Legacy system
and players should expect some unbalancing superpowerful attack because...?
It's not like they have to go out of their way to get Legacy XP. It just accumulates, even when you only have one character.
Comments
Special is irrelevant, what Im trying to point out is the fact that a force user will be "normal", "special", whatever you want to call it. Over a non force user.
If a lot of us had it would we think its special?
No?
Ok.
Now apply that logic to heroism.Finally, sith warrior can shoot lightning out of his damn hand-
I get what Sovrath is saying, but that's all something we won't know much about til' later.
But I WOULD be bold enough to speculate that whatever cross-class powers you can choose from, it won't be some smorgasbord of being able to pick the "best powers" of X class, Y class, and Z class.
Matter of fact, I would bet that any that you choose will probably be more about visual effect than utility.
For example, you may be able to pick the Smuggler's ranged stun power as a Trooper, but will probably be on the same CD as your Trooper's own ranged stun power.
Could be wrong... only speculating.
Now that would be useless.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
So then why play Assassin's creed? I mean everyone who plays it is the hero.
Why play Skyrim?
why play any game?
they all make you the hero.
In a Super Hero MMO guess what? EVERYONES A SUPER HERO! But how? I mean you can only have one right?
Here lets use a definition to settle this
A hero (heroine is usually used for females) (Ancient Greek: ?ρως, h?r?s), in Greek mythology and folklore, was originally a demigod, their cult being one of the most distinctive features of ancient Greek religion.[1] Later, hero (male) and heroine (female) came to refer to characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice—that is, heroism—for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence. - Wikipedia.
Now what we're looking at is the "Came to reference characters who in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will to self sacrafice"
I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number.
There is also the difference between being able to force choke someone once every so often for a few seconds across a few meters and being a full-blown Sith Sorcerer.
The IA's Ensign what's-her-face companion also has one or two force abilities, so this mixing is already present.
So today I was walking around my couch and stubbed my toe *hard*. I started to sit back, intending to sit on the floor for a minute and ended up landing against the corner of a table in the middle of my back.
Well the table jerked wildly, knocking the lamp over. The lightbulb in the lamp broke and scared the crap out of my cat.
The cat ran straight for the bar to my left and tried to climb up part of a towel hanging over and ended up pulling it down, which caused the big ass bible on top of it to come down and land right on my head.
So i was like, "this is crazy shit!" I'm hurt all over, got bible thumped and my toe still hurts 3 hours later.
I think it's because I didn't go to church last Sunday. Or any day for the last 25 to 30 years. Dunno.
Anyway, i thought that was relevant to the discussion.
Did all of this happen to anyone else today?
yeah for instance you cannot talent force choak as a bouty hunter can ya?
Or talent a flame thrower modifier as a Sith inquisitor.
Really? So, you believe that every living being on the planet is a hero?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You do not get to fully CHOOSE which of a class' abilities is made available to your alts....
If you level a Sith Warrior & complete chapters 1-3 you UNLOCK Force Choke only, you ca't select which you get.
Similarly if you did the same with a Bounty Hunter you UNLOCK Flamethrower.
It's what BioWare decided you can have.
Nope, I believe that heroic actions are not dictated or limited by the number of people who are taking part of them.
World war 2 vets are Heroes.
See?
Then you just contradicted yourself:
"I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number."
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
actually I just agreed with myself...
You should re read what I posted...
Heroes ARE NOT limited in number.
Heroic actions are not divided up the number of people taking part in them.
Heroic actions are not lessened when more people take part in them.
Heroic actions are inherantly heroic, and if someone does them, they possess heroic qualities.
again, simply untrue.
Ok so we have Me, I'll be the Sith Inquisitor, I'm a member of the dark council and a powerful Sith force user. then we have my friend, hes ALSO a member of the dark council, hes a sith warrior, and a very powerful force user, both of us have a lot of stories about how strong and powerful we are under our belts.
Both of us are Heroes, and we go out and do heroic things together.
This doesn't detract from our heroisim. Rather adds to it. Just because there are other heros around you does not lessen how heroic you are.
Have you played Star Wars TOR? I mean it really makes a lot of sense if you do a Flash point, as everyone in your party is an epic hero including you, yet it surely doesn't detract from what happens or lessens how heroic you feel.
Again, there are a lot of people (NPCS) in the story who have very little or no power at all.
If your problem is merely that other players are heroes too... well then you are probably playing the wrong game / genre of games.
I guess what I was trying to say was that not everyone in the Star Wars universe is force sensative. Han, Chewbaca, and others were heroes based on their skills and actions in the story, only a couple were force users. I can see that Bioware is trying to give players more options and that is cool, but do they have to do it at the expense of taking others uniqueness by giving these skills to others? Why not create other unique skills to unlock?Then you probably shouldn't have said "nope".
Ok then, so everyone on the planet is a closet-hero? Waiting for the right time to change outfits?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
This is 3 thousand years earlier, before several purges of ALL force sensitives that the people purging could find.
Anakin skywalker killed tens of thousands of force sensitives.
Darth Bane did too.
Many many purges of force sensitives happened by the empire over those thousands of years.
That makes sense. I'd like to have something cool but not overpowering, and those 2 things are certainly pretty cool. And in most cases, they will be less powerful than the original classes version, since no tree enhancements will be available(?).
Do you not believe that you could do something heroic tomorrow?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Again, a heroic action is heroic in nature, thats how its defined by websters sir, you can invent your own definition if you like... but thats how it is defined.
if 10 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 100 people do something heroic, its still heroic.
if 1000
if 100000
if 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
the number does not mater, the action does.
And do you think the player base is going to be content with "fluff" powers? I think not.
I can't wait to see this snowball at the end of the hill.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
So, yes or no, do you believe everyone on the planet is a hero in waiting?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Answer me this.
If one person dies for his country is he a hero? Well since it is self sacrafice, by definition, yes he is.
now if 10,000 people die for their country, are they not heroes?
By your words, no.
Ill be honest not everone in tor is gonna be a hero, my inquisitor is no hero. Hes a villiam in every sense of the word, He goes aroudn tourturing and killing for fun
Hes not a hero at all. I have no issue with this and im much more interested in the unlockable races then i am the abilities , i may or may not unlock,
If i have to choose id choose a mailbox or access to the global trade network before id choose force choke for my bh, This in no way goes against cannon
there are force users in the star wars unviers that are neither jedi or sith, If u dont know this u know nothing about star wars. Have the ability to tap into a force power every so often because u are untrained or have some sensitivity but not alot isnt a big deal at all
I find it funny most of the people compalining dont even play tor hell most of them are so busy blasting the game over everything its kinda funny
If u arent playing the game i dont care what u think of this system to be honest,.
We're talking about one feature in the Legacy system
and players should expect some unbalancing superpowerful attack because...?
It's not like they have to go out of their way to get Legacy XP. It just accumulates, even when you only have one character.