As opposed to a world where everyone is a glow-bat swinger throwing lightning around? I'll take the other.
And BTW, when everyone is a glow-bat smacking, lightning throwing "hero", that is average.
Yes but having a light saber, using the force, THAT doesn't make them a hero.
What makes them heroic is the events that unfold and the choices that are made, the intent behind them.
And you play a game where everyone does just that. Scripted heros. Everyone.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I would have actually MUCH preferred if they did force powers that way from the start. Where it wasn't so class specific and different classes could pick up different powers. It would have added so much spice to the gameworld.
But instead they implemented a strict "class-based" system where force abilities were completely defined by class, and other classes had non-force abilities that were absolutely on par with the force powers. I think it's more boring, but hey, it works.
Now we hear talk of them giving force powers to every class and once again, SWTOR seems to be a game that has no clue what it's supposed to be. It's clearly designed as a "class-based" themepark with balance in mind...I mean it has completely mirrored classes for heavens sake. But now it's trying to implement some weird "sandboxish" force powers where any class can use them. I can only imagine this is going to cause massive cries of imbalance from the players that actually enjoy the "uber-balance" themepark class design.
It just doesn't make sense to me...
Are force powers class specific or are they not?
But then the game would have been called The Secret World and not Old Republic...
A hero is someone who goes above and beyond. If everyone is going above and beyond then, the line that marks 'standard' move to that 'above and beyond' spot. Thereby making it no longer above and beyond, but standard. A hero is relative to his peers. Not everyone is a hero. Now, you can have an elite group of people, but being elite =/= as being a hero.
If you want to say that some players are more heroic than others sure.
How about villainy?
I myself am quite a Villain.
Why are we so focused on if everyone can be the hero? I mean the reason you repubs can BE the hero is because all of the Sith who are Villains.
Sandbox games are full of villains. They are called griefers .
I was a PKK in UO, Yew Militia for life! :-D
My point is that in a game like SWTOR everyone can be "the hero" because half of them are the bad guy heroes who are actually causing most of the situations the good guy heroes have to rise against and be heroic in stopping them.
its like villains vs heros, which is the whole theme of star wars really. So I do think all the players can be "heroic"
I think you bring up a great example of actual heroism in an MMORPG.
In UO, you had very real villians that could kill you and take all your stuff. PKKs would put themselves at personal risk in order to protect those who can't protect themselves. They basically acted as kind of a vigilante police force, and I would have considered them "heroic."
Yes, that's why campaign medals are not as high an honour as medals for bravery, if everyone got medals for bravery it would diminish those who had gone beyond.
My point remains, if 10 people do the same exact heroic action, then they are all heroes, the number of people doing the action does not detract from how heroic their actions were.
if 1 person does heroic things, and then meets up with 9 other people who ALSO did heroic things, they're all heroes, its not like ONE of them suddenly is a hero and the rest are slag.
We are not saying only person can be heroic, but you are saying everybody can.
I did not say that everyone can be a hero.
However, you said this:
"I don't see ANYTHING about heroes being limited in number."
Are you now saying they are limited in number?
Read the definition, did you read something about them being limited in number?
If so please correct me.
So you do believe everyone can be a hero? It's getting difficult to follow what you do or do not believe.
It is an MMO and yes in a MMO everyone is a hero. Even if you start in rags and emerge out of a swer you will be a hero one day. I have no idea why are you hammering this point so much as if you just discovered MMOS yesterday.
Not every game is/was like that. Most MMOs today are focused on providing the gamer with god-like powers and gear.
So no, not every MMO is like that.
I would like to know example of MMOS where your character is not treated like hero or doesn't progress towards becoming one just like other thousands of players running around you.
Sandbox games:
Ultima Online, Eve, Darkfall, etc...
Having super abilities doesn't make you a hero. Using them in a way that distinguishes you from your fellows does.
Heroism is in your deeds so yes EVE, Darkfall and UO also had thousands of heroes. These MMOS had oppertunities and freedom to follow the good path and be a hero.
How many people are currently subscribed to SW:TOR? 1 million?
How many people are actually at a point in the game to where they can benefit from using those shared abilities?
When you look at it that way, even if there are 1 million (that is assuming all 1 million players in SW:TOR play non-force users) Troopers force choking people, that's an insanely miniscule amount compared to how many warm bodies make up the population of the galaxy.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
If you want to say that some players are more heroic than others sure.
How about villainy?
I myself am quite a Villain.
Why are we so focused on if everyone can be the hero? I mean the reason you repubs can BE the hero is because all of the Sith who are Villains.
Sandbox games are full of villains. They are called griefers .
I was a PKK in UO, Yew Militia for life! :-D
My point is that in a game like SWTOR everyone can be "the hero" because half of them are the bad guy heroes who are actually causing most of the situations the good guy heroes have to rise against and be heroic in stopping them.
its like villains vs heros, which is the whole theme of star wars really. So I do think all the players can be "heroic"
I think you bring up a great example of actual heroism in an MMORPG.
In UO, you had very real villians that could kill you and take all your stuff. PKKs would put themselves at personal risk in order to protect those who can't protect themselves. They basically acted as kind of a vigilante police force, and I would have considered them "heroic."
But you were'nt forced to be a hero in UO. You weren't spoon-fed your heroism through movies and cut scenes, the same as everyone else. Many people in UO (and other games like SWG pre-cu) were just regular folk who crafted and minded their own business.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience [mod edit]. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience with these trolls. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
You know, I thought Laughing Man and the others were actually having a pretty good discussion here. In fact, we actually kind of came to an understanding. And then you come in and call everyone trolls lol.
Sorry that we didn't agree with you, but that doesn't make us trolls .
When everyone is a hero, nobody is. Yourself included.
I'm sorry you hold that to be your opinion, yet it is just that, an opinion. One I do not share.
World of Warcraft calls themself "The Hero Factory" So I guess that game doesn't exsist since no one can be a hero if everyone is right?
Its a neat saying, but thats all it is.
I'm going to be blunt with you here (forgive me oh mod gods)... it's true; not an opinion. If everyone could fly on earth.... it would not be a superpower... it would be normal.
So in this example... if everyone is a hero; being a hero means nothing (I hope the lightbulb just went on). It's not just a neat saying... it means something to those of us who are able to grasp such "high" concepts.... (I'm being sarcastic... this should be common sense... but you seem to not get it).
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience with these trolls. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
You know, I thought Laughing Man and the others were actually having a pretty good discussion here. In fact, we actually kind of came to an understanding. And then you come in and call everyone trolls lol.
Sorry that we didn't agree with you, but that doesn't make us trolls .
Cmon, you can see the trolls. "Thats what happens when games start to tank man, they give everyone options, Swtor is on its last legs man". Look again.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
If you've been following MMORPGs at all, you knew what you were getting into with SW:TOR. If you still bought it, it's kinda like beating your head against a wall over and over hoping that eventually it'll stop making your head hurt and you'll crap out a golden egg. It's insanity.
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience with these trolls. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
You know, I thought Laughing Man and the others were actually having a pretty good discussion here. In fact, we actually kind of came to an understanding. And then you come in and call everyone trolls lol.
Sorry that we didn't agree with you, but that doesn't make us trolls .
Actually, there are a lot of trolls in this thread. Myself included. Simply because we went way off topic and spent the majority of 160+ posts debating something unrelated to the OP.
Just saying.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I think what most people are concerned about, and rightly so is this.
In SWTOR I play a Jedi Sage.
I can do things that no other players in SWTOR can do except other sages and the mirror class on the empire side the Sith Sorcerer.
I have unique heal abilities, a unique shield ability, unique force wave abilities, I can toss little space pebbles at people and look lame.
Everything I can do is unique to me and the sorcerer.
If I log in and see other players out in the world tossing tiny space pebbles at mobs or shielding themselves with a force shield; then I no longer take pride in the fact that I am a Jedi Sage.
I am no longer unique, I am just random guy with lightsaber #78936487126487296. Nothing to see here, move along.
This is a real issue with me personally. I love my class, and take pride in the fact that the things I can do as a sage are unique to the class I worked hard to play and master since release.
If everyone can now do what I can do, then why play a sage... why play swtor at all.
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience with these trolls. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
You know, I thought Laughing Man and the others were actually having a pretty good discussion here. In fact, we actually kind of came to an understanding. And then you come in and call everyone trolls lol.
Sorry that we didn't agree with you, but that doesn't make us trolls .
Cmon, you can see the trolls. "Thats what happens when games start to tank man, they give everyone options, Swtor is on its last legs man". Look again.
I agree with Creslin, I had a very good philosophical debate where everyone put in their views in a pretty good natured way and debated based on what the other had said. As the bloke from the Last Samurai said "It was a good conversation" You are the only one seeing trolls.
I would agree with your assertions about heroisim and how someone who is truely heroic would most likely also be humble.
I also agree that a heroic deed is based off intent, rather than end result.
I am rather sad you had to be insulting about the character of the people speaking in the thread to get your point across though.
Was no insult in there, only an observation based on the conversation that has been going on in this thread. Standing on the outside looking in, reading the thoughts that peopel have been putting in here, a general conclusion on some can honestly be made. I did not single anyone out either. As a veteran of a foreign war myself, I have been around people who lived the heroic life, and some that have died being the hero. Once you have personally encountered it, it does become rather obvious when you are listening to others who have, and who has not ever been placed in those situations.
If that offended you I'm sorry, but it is the truth none the less. It is not, nor was it ever intended as a character assassination to anyone, merely an observation that some people here discussing this topic have never been in that position. They just haven't, or they would never make the assertions they have.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
If you've been following MMORPGs at all, you knew what you were getting into with SW:TOR. If you still bought it, it's kinda like beating your head against a wall over and over hoping that eventually it'll stop making your head hurt and you'll crap out a golden egg. It's insanity.
No one was discussing whether the game was for them or not, you brought that into the conversation when faced with an argument you couldn't refute using reasoning
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience with these trolls. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
Sir, let's not take this conversation to an even worse level by calling all that disagree trolls. If you think the people arguing what heroism means are trolling than I honestly do not think you took the time to read what they have said. You do not have to agree with them, but calling others trolls for having different opinions is a bit much.
That being said, I never thought one could create a sense of heroism in an MMO to begin with. The MMO medium is inherently contrary to uniqueness when you have "Darth Lawlcats" with the same titles and status as yourself. I still think this feature is a bad idea. Why? Because no matter what Bioware chooses it is going to have to contend with issues/complaints with such a feature. I simply see no possibility for a middle ground.
-Make it too strong, it becomes part of optimization builds.
-Make it too weak, players will call it irrelevant and a waste of time with the exception of RP purposes. They want this feature to be used and so I do not think they will make it weak.
At this point, I think they should scrap this idea to be honest. Allow family banners, housing, or armor, but cross class abilities just appears that Bioware is shooting themselves in the foot. Hell, making special class abilities or spell affects seems like a better and more fitting idea than cross-class abilities.
I cannot see ability swapping as anything more than a Pandora's box that should not be opened.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
It's a story-based game, where "like a movie" you are scripted to become the hero. After you finish the story, you're supposed to feel heroic within the confines of your personal storyline just like you look at John McClain as the hero of the Die Hard films. There's no room for allowing you to roam the galaxy raising banthas and moisture farming. Different video games focus on different aspects of gameplay. SW:TOR focuses on scripted story, whereas a game like Skyrim is going to focus on freedom-of-choice and freedom to explore the game world as you please. As a result, SW:TOR has relatively limited freedom of exploration and Skyrim has a relatively poor main storyline because the emphasis was placed on different areas of gameplay.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
It's a story-based game, where "like a movie" you are scripted to become the hero. After you finish the story, you're supposed to feel heroic within the confines of your personal storyline just like you look at John McClain as the hero of the Die Hard films. There's no room for allowing you to roam the galaxy raising banthas and moisture farming. Different video games focus on different aspects of gameplay. SW:TOR focuses on scripted story, whereas a game like Skyrim is going to focus on freedom-of-choice and freedom to explore the game world as you please. As a result, SW:TOR has relatively limited freedom of exploration and Skyrim has a relatively poor main storyline because the emphasis was placed on different areas of gameplay.
If its like a movie, then someone else is the hero, and it is not the whole cast.
Comments
And you play a game where everyone does just that. Scripted heros. Everyone.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
"I refuse to leave this base unless we take all these kids with me!"
<use flamethrower>
"OK, guess I don't have to take care of the kids, now..."
But then the game would have been called The Secret World and not Old Republic...
A hero is someone who goes above and beyond. If everyone is going above and beyond then, the line that marks 'standard' move to that 'above and beyond' spot. Thereby making it no longer above and beyond, but standard. A hero is relative to his peers. Not everyone is a hero. Now, you can have an elite group of people, but being elite =/= as being a hero.
I think you bring up a great example of actual heroism in an MMORPG.
In UO, you had very real villians that could kill you and take all your stuff. PKKs would put themselves at personal risk in order to protect those who can't protect themselves. They basically acted as kind of a vigilante police force, and I would have considered them "heroic."
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Heroism is in your deeds so yes EVE, Darkfall and UO also had thousands of heroes. These MMOS had oppertunities and freedom to follow the good path and be a hero.
How many citizens populate the Star Wars galaxy?
Billions? Trillions? Quadrillions? More?
How many people are currently subscribed to SW:TOR? 1 million?
How many people are actually at a point in the game to where they can benefit from using those shared abilities?
When you look at it that way, even if there are 1 million (that is assuming all 1 million players in SW:TOR play non-force users) Troopers force choking people, that's an insanely miniscule amount compared to how many warm bodies make up the population of the galaxy.
I think most of you are looking at the idea of "being a hero" the wrong way. BioWare never intended for the players to be heroes in comparison to other players but heroes in terms of the storyline and in terms of the galaxy at large.
But you were'nt forced to be a hero in UO. You weren't spoon-fed your heroism through movies and cut scenes, the same as everyone else. Many people in UO (and other games like SWG pre-cu) were just regular folk who crafted and minded their own business.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Laughing Man, I applaud your patience [mod edit]. You are very informative and make perfect sense. You obviously know the lore and what heros mean in video games (unless we are talking some sandbox game without the need for hero players). Let those who believe they are right, believe they are right. You will be a better person because of it. Man people on this site, find something else to do in a positive light, please.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You know, I thought Laughing Man and the others were actually having a pretty good discussion here. In fact, we actually kind of came to an understanding. And then you come in and call everyone trolls lol.
Sorry that we didn't agree with you, but that doesn't make us trolls
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I'm going to be blunt with you here (forgive me oh mod gods)... it's true; not an opinion. If everyone could fly on earth.... it would not be a superpower... it would be normal.
So in this example... if everyone is a hero; being a hero means nothing (I hope the lightbulb just went on). It's not just a neat saying... it means something to those of us who are able to grasp such "high" concepts.... (I'm being sarcastic... this should be common sense... but you seem to not get it).
Cmon, you can see the trolls. "Thats what happens when games start to tank man, they give everyone options, Swtor is on its last legs man". Look again.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
If you've been following MMORPGs at all, you knew what you were getting into with SW:TOR. If you still bought it, it's kinda like beating your head against a wall over and over hoping that eventually it'll stop making your head hurt and you'll crap out a golden egg. It's insanity.
Actually, there are a lot of trolls in this thread. Myself included. Simply because we went way off topic and spent the majority of 160+ posts debating something unrelated to the OP.
Just saying.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I think what most people are concerned about, and rightly so is this.
In SWTOR I play a Jedi Sage.
I can do things that no other players in SWTOR can do except other sages and the mirror class on the empire side the Sith Sorcerer.
I have unique heal abilities, a unique shield ability, unique force wave abilities, I can toss little space pebbles at people and look lame.
Everything I can do is unique to me and the sorcerer.
If I log in and see other players out in the world tossing tiny space pebbles at mobs or shielding themselves with a force shield; then I no longer take pride in the fact that I am a Jedi Sage.
I am no longer unique, I am just random guy with lightsaber #78936487126487296. Nothing to see here, move along.
This is a real issue with me personally. I love my class, and take pride in the fact that the things I can do as a sage are unique to the class I worked hard to play and master since release.
If everyone can now do what I can do, then why play a sage... why play swtor at all.
You know, I thought Laughing Man and the others were actually having a pretty good discussion here. In fact, we actually kind of came to an understanding. And then you come in and call everyone trolls lol.
Sorry that we didn't agree with you, but that doesn't make us trolls
.
Cmon, you can see the trolls. "Thats what happens when games start to tank man, they give everyone options, Swtor is on its last legs man". Look again.
I agree with Creslin, I had a very good philosophical debate where everyone put in their views in a pretty good natured way and debated based on what the other had said. As the bloke from the Last Samurai said "It was a good conversation" You are the only one seeing trolls.Was no insult in there, only an observation based on the conversation that has been going on in this thread. Standing on the outside looking in, reading the thoughts that peopel have been putting in here, a general conclusion on some can honestly be made. I did not single anyone out either. As a veteran of a foreign war myself, I have been around people who lived the heroic life, and some that have died being the hero. Once you have personally encountered it, it does become rather obvious when you are listening to others who have, and who has not ever been placed in those situations.
If that offended you I'm sorry, but it is the truth none the less. It is not, nor was it ever intended as a character assassination to anyone, merely an observation that some people here discussing this topic have never been in that position. They just haven't, or they would never make the assertions they have.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
If you've been following MMORPGs at all, you knew what you were getting into with SW:TOR. If you still bought it, it's kinda like beating your head against a wall over and over hoping that eventually it'll stop making your head hurt and you'll crap out a golden egg. It's insanity.
No one was discussing whether the game was for them or not, you brought that into the conversation when faced with an argument you couldn't refute using reasoningI have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Sir, let's not take this conversation to an even worse level by calling all that disagree trolls. If you think the people arguing what heroism means are trolling than I honestly do not think you took the time to read what they have said. You do not have to agree with them, but calling others trolls for having different opinions is a bit much.
That being said, I never thought one could create a sense of heroism in an MMO to begin with. The MMO medium is inherently contrary to uniqueness when you have "Darth Lawlcats" with the same titles and status as yourself. I still think this feature is a bad idea. Why? Because no matter what Bioware chooses it is going to have to contend with issues/complaints with such a feature. I simply see no possibility for a middle ground.
-Make it too strong, it becomes part of optimization builds.
-Make it too weak, players will call it irrelevant and a waste of time with the exception of RP purposes. They want this feature to be used and so I do not think they will make it weak.
At this point, I think they should scrap this idea to be honest. Allow family banners, housing, or armor, but cross class abilities just appears that Bioware is shooting themselves in the foot. Hell, making special class abilities or spell affects seems like a better and more fitting idea than cross-class abilities.
I cannot see ability swapping as anything more than a Pandora's box that should not be opened.
wait
Does that mean Bioware is The Force?
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
wait
Does that mean Bioware is The Force?
Yes, I presume the darkside ;-)It's a story-based game, where "like a movie" you are scripted to become the hero. After you finish the story, you're supposed to feel heroic within the confines of your personal storyline just like you look at John McClain as the hero of the Die Hard films. There's no room for allowing you to roam the galaxy raising banthas and moisture farming. Different video games focus on different aspects of gameplay. SW:TOR focuses on scripted story, whereas a game like Skyrim is going to focus on freedom-of-choice and freedom to explore the game world as you please. As a result, SW:TOR has relatively limited freedom of exploration and Skyrim has a relatively poor main storyline because the emphasis was placed on different areas of gameplay.
But they're all still considered "heros" regardless of chosen class. You can not opt out of being the "hero", the story-driven content will not allow someone not to be a hero.
ya, which means if you don't like that then the game is not for you.
It's not as if BioWare suddenly surprised everyone with this concept when pretty much every hype video they've ever released talked about you being the hero doing heroic things.
I have no doubt that it's not for me, that wasn't the discussion.
I would argue that Bioware, and many other gaming companies, directly place the gamer on the path to heroism and forcefully push them down that linear path with no exception. They took "do or do not, there is no try" to a whole new level. There is no option to become a hero or not, you MUST become the hero, which once again, makes everyone the same and defeats the purpose and definition of being a true hero.
It's a story-based game, where "like a movie" you are scripted to become the hero. After you finish the story, you're supposed to feel heroic within the confines of your personal storyline just like you look at John McClain as the hero of the Die Hard films. There's no room for allowing you to roam the galaxy raising banthas and moisture farming. Different video games focus on different aspects of gameplay. SW:TOR focuses on scripted story, whereas a game like Skyrim is going to focus on freedom-of-choice and freedom to explore the game world as you please. As a result, SW:TOR has relatively limited freedom of exploration and Skyrim has a relatively poor main storyline because the emphasis was placed on different areas of gameplay.
If its like a movie, then someone else is the hero, and it is not the whole cast.