I don't have much time but I want to respond to this:
"Free-roam games don't provide the same sort of entertainment as a storybased game. "
I 100% disagree with you although they're both just opinions.
Story-based games are linear and hold your hand through the content. It tells you where to go and when and you can't deviate from the story. In a sense, you're just playing a movie.
For me, that is just plain boring. If I want to watch a movie, I'll rent one. If I want to be told what to do, where, and when, I'll go down to the local government agency building.
Nah, no thanks. I like freedom in games. I like to create my own story and watch others live theirs. I don't need to be spoon-fed my destiny that comes attached to handcuffs. That's not entertaintment, that's being a slave to the game and the story they want you to endure.
You can keep your Skinner box, I'll take one with sand that comes with entrances and exits instead of dead ends.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I don't have much time but I want to respond to this:
"Free-roam games don't provide the same sort of entertainment as a storybased game. "
I 100% disagree with you although they're both just opinions.
Story-based games are linear and hold your hand through the content. It tells you where to go and when and you can't deviate from the story. In a sense, you're just playing a movie.
For me, that is just plain boring. If I want to watch a movie, I'll rent one. If I want to be told what to do, where, and when, I'll go down to the local government agency building.
Nah, no thanks. I like freedom in games. I like to create my own story and watch others live theirs. I don't need to be spoon-fed my destiny that comes attached to handcuffs. That's not entertaintment, that's being a slave to the game and the story they want you to endure.
You can keep your Skinner box, I'll take one with sand that comes with entrances and exits instead of dead ends.
You're still unable to comprehend that different doesn't always equal better or worse, and I'm going to go back through this thread and take a liquor shot every time I see the word "Skinner Box" in one of your posts.
Why does everythread around here get derailed from a serious topic like the OP's question about lore (which was thoroughly answered on the first page) into a hundred posts of "This game sucks!" or "this game is awesome"
How would you feel if your bounty hunter went through an epic quest line in which she/he obtained force sensativity and subsequently learned force choke? A la Luke having next to no power in IV and slowly learning it over two more movies? I don't know.... if the farmboy class can become force sensative, I guess I'm ok with a bounty hunter too.
I guess it boils down to implementation. Implemented well, it will rock. If not, it is sarcrilige.
I could care less if it breaks the lore or not. I'm annoyed that they are PvE only abilites, just like there are some abilites that only work on weak and standard mobs. It's just stupid IMO. I was actually kind of excited about the Legacy system only to find out this info on the abilites, and the fact that you won't unlock any currently unplayable races.
The only thing that looks promising to me is the WZ (from what little I have seen), and the UI changes.
For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.
Why would they do this? Doesn't this totally go against lore? Nope.
well you remember Leia right? Princess Leia? Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.
There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"
Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?
When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive. That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.
Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.
This is VERY Cannon.
Ok - cool. It just seems that it is wweird that a Bounty Hunter one day just bam...has force powers.
well it wouldn't be "one day" I mean technically if there was a story to back it up he'd have slowly gained them through training just like a jedi.
There are A LOT of non jedi / sith force sensitives in the Star wars universe, not everyone who uses the force has a light saber
After reading this I feel no need to read anything else in this thread, should have stopped right here, as this exhange (laughing-man) is spot on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why does everythread around here get derailed from a serious topic like the OP's question about lore (which was thoroughly answered on the first page) into a hundred posts of "This game sucks!" or "this game is awesome"
Get it together people.
I'd like to know that as well, I got the answer I was looking for on the first 2 pages. Which was answered very well by a couple of posters. I think it is awesome that Bioware is actually trying to do something to give players more options to create unique characters. I am still going to hold off playing though until I see how the new WZ's work out and what they have planned to add more depth to the game. I'd love to see deeper space combat and more open world PvP.
It definitely does not go against lore. It doesn't seem hard to believe that not everyone who can sense or manipulate that force will be strong enough to become a Jedi. They may just learn a single ability, or several small ones. Kind of like a "wilder" in Wheel of Time.
Also, from the Q&A, regarding using heroic abilities in PVP
"
Q: How will Heroic abilities affect open-world PvP?
A: It will make it interesting, open-world PvP is more like the wild, wild west."
Why does everythread around here get derailed from a serious topic like the OP's question about lore (which was thoroughly answered on the first page) into a hundred posts of "This game sucks!" or "this game is awesome"
Get it together people.
I'd like to know that as well, I got the answer I was looking for on the first 2 pages. Which was answered very well by a couple of posters. I think it is awesome that Bioware is actually trying to do something to give players more options to create unique characters. I am still going to hold off playing though until I see how the new WZ's work out and what they have planned to add more depth to the game. I'd love to see deeper space combat and more open world PvP.
I'm having a blast in the game, but I'd also like to see deeper space combat and more open world PvP. Space combat as it now stands is an awesome minigame, and it's more fun than I would dare to admit face-to-face. The world PvP in Illum can be an absolute riot, but that's generally not the case.
I don't have much time but I want to respond to this:
"Free-roam games don't provide the same sort of entertainment as a storybased game. "
I 100% disagree with you although they're both just opinions.
Story-based games are linear and hold your hand through the content. It tells you where to go and when and you can't deviate from the story. In a sense, you're just playing a movie.
For me, that is just plain boring. If I want to watch a movie, I'll rent one. If I want to be told what to do, where, and when, I'll go down to the local government agency building.
Nah, no thanks. I like freedom in games. I like to create my own story and watch others live theirs. I don't need to be spoon-fed my destiny that comes attached to handcuffs. That's not entertaintment, that's being a slave to the game and the story they want you to endure.
You can keep your Skinner box, I'll take one with sand that comes with entrances and exits instead of dead ends.
You're still unable to comprehend that different doesn't always equal better or worse, and I'm going to go back through this thread and take a liquor shot every time I see the word "Skinner Box" in one of your posts.
Different is ALWAYS better or worse for someone.
Don't drink too much.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
The best thing, ideally, Bio could do is buy the 'Rift' engine and start all over with a totally different philosophy and approach. This approach would focus on actual game design, rather than their own bottle-necked, constrained paradigm.
What the mmo desperate needed was a MASSIVE injection of FREEDOM and CHOICE, and ideally, a total redesign of graphics -- getting rid of the cartoony look and going with 100% realism (Rift as a model). Frankly the mmo is so badly designed, from engine to game philosophy, it doesn't really matter what they do, imo.
I have been following the discussions of the guild summit and they talked about changes and additions that will be coming to patch 1.2 in April. One of them is that with the Legacy System you'll be able to unlock force users skills on non-force user classes.
For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.
Why would they do this? Doesn't this totally go against lore? Bioware was all ready playing lose with the lore, but isn't this going a little over the top. Also, if they do this, what will Force Users get? Will they get the ability to use blasters?
For someone like me that has yet decide if they are going to play the game someday, this is not helping to put me into the mood of doing so. So what does everyone else think about this?
So you've been trashig the game all this time, yet you have NEVER played it? Interesting...
SWTOR forces you to be the "hero", 100% of the gamers are forced to be "heros".
If the game forces you to be the hero and 100% of the gamers are heros, it's logical to think that everyone in the game is also the hero. Thinking otherwise defies the mechanics of the game.
But whatever, it's kind of a silly hypothetical argument anyways. The game forces all players to be "heros" for each chosen class and therefore are just like everyone else. You CAN NOT choose NOT to be a "hero" if so desired.
If you want to believe that you're somehow more special than the next "hero" standing next to you, that's your choice, I'm just stating the obvious game mechanics.
I've played the imperial agent class to 50, completing the class story. I felt once heroic in the whole class story, I got to do something that felt like any agent realistically looking could not pull off (realism in computer fantasy games lol). Most of the time I felt like I was an agent on a mission, and only a few people in the whole galaxy even knows that I exist. I dont feel special standing next to another agent, which is good since I dont want to feel heroic or special compared to him, to me he is just another agent on a mission.
I've played sith warrior to around 40, and I dont feel heroic on that class either. The difference is that a lot of people knows about me now, but they mostly fear the status of my character unless they are higher on the sith hierarchy. I dont feel heroic when I'm force chocking some fool imperial major in a dialog scene, I feel like I'm just a sith, perhaps above average, nothing godlike (especially when I fail to solo some miniboss champion...). That's how it's supposed to be when you are a sith?
I have trooper alt, not that far into the game, but I feel like I'm a commando trooper only doing my duty, what I'm ordered to do, there could be thousands others just like me across the galaxy doing their own missions. In fact, when I see another trooper he looks like anybody, not like some common guard grunt, but not some godlike Arnie, not to me at least, and that is a good thing.
I'm guessing that's how it's supposed to be, at least that's how it is to me, and I wouldnt have it any other way. I dont want to feel like the center of the galaxy, or I dont want to feel like nobody, and to me this game quite well, story wise, delivers the middle road, above average just the right way.
Is it one of the Jedi classes that makes you feel like some over the top hero, or a cloned hero among thousands?
There's also the possibility that heroism is somehow clearer theme to you hence making everything that moves feel like cloned heroes more easily, personally I havent felt very heroic in the game or the other players around me, more like someone who is doing what they are supposed to do, I never really even think that the others are actually doing the same storylines as I am, maybe that's the key feeling unique even if not heroic.
@OP, sorry that I joined the derail fest, but as you stated the answer/info regarding the original post is already on couple of the first pages!
So today I was walking around my couch and stubbed my toe *hard*. I started to sit back, intending to sit on the floor for a minute and ended up landing against the corner of a table in the middle of my back.
Well the table jerked wildly, knocking the lamp over. The lightbulb in the lamp broke and scared the crap out of my cat.
The cat ran straight for the bar to my left and tried to climb up part of a towel hanging over and ended up pulling it down, which caused the big ass bible on top of it to come down and land right on my head.
So i was like, "this is crazy shit!" I'm hurt all over, got bible thumped and my toe still hurts 3 hours later.
I think it's because I didn't go to church last Sunday. Or any day for the last 25 to 30 years. Dunno.
Anyway, i thought that was relevant to the discussion.
Did all of this happen to anyone else today?
I think this was the most informative post in this whole thread.
I have been following the discussions of the guild summit and they talked about changes and additions that will be coming to patch 1.2 in April. One of them is that with the Legacy System you'll be able to unlock force users skills on non-force user classes.
For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.
Why would they do this? Doesn't this totally go against lore? Bioware was all ready playing lose with the lore, but isn't this going a little over the top. Also, if they do this, what will Force Users get? Will they get the ability to use blasters?
For someone like me that has yet decide if they are going to play the game someday, this is not helping to put me into the mood of doing so. So what does everyone else think about this?
So you've been trashig the game all this time, yet you have NEVER played it? Interesting...
Didnt she also write a review or such about the game and gave it something like 5/10. Kinda funny from someone who has yet to decide if they are going to play the game, oh well, nothing new around here.
I've played the imperial agent class to 50, completing the class story. I felt once heroic in the whole class story, I got to do something that felt like any agent realistically looking could not pull off (realism in computer fantasy games lol). Most of the time I felt like I was an agent on a mission, and only a few people in the whole galaxy even knows that I exist. I dont feel special standing next to another agent, which is good since I dont want to feel heroic or special compared to him, to me he is just another agent on a mission.
[...]
I really really like that post Kuinn. I saw this thread on the front page and came to your post.
I like how you described how the game felt.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Force powers for non force power classes is dumb and immersion breaking.
Someone mentioned Leia, but the only use of the force power I remember her having was was sensing Luke. I only remember one character using force choke.
What about having force abilties detracts from your game play experience to where you think that makes EVERYBODY A HERO?
The game ALREADY made everyone a hero, before launch that was like their main selling point...
WoW talks about making everyone "the hero" all the time.
Force choaking someone does not an epic hero make.
You can't make everyone the hero, you can pretend if you want, but your actions are no more heroic than everyone else's so you aren't the hero and that isn't heroism.
That.
Willing to look past your "super hero averageness" doesn't diminish the fact that you're like everyone else which makes you plain.
A world where everyone is a super hero is a world where everyone is the same, common and average which defies the definition of "super" and "hero".
I believe you are trying to make a literal point about a game designed for fun. I would suggest a sandbox game if you are hung up about having Uncle Owen Average Joes vs Luke Skywalker Heros spread throughout the game world.
Uncle Owen had his ass kicked to the curb in this game, and TOR is better for it afaiac.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I have been following the discussions of the guild summit and they talked about changes and additions that will be coming to patch 1.2 in April. One of them is that with the Legacy System you'll be able to unlock force users skills on non-force user classes.
For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.
Why would they do this? Doesn't this totally go against lore? Bioware was all ready playing lose with the lore, but isn't this going a little over the top. Also, if they do this, what will Force Users get? Will they get the ability to use blasters?
For someone like me that has yet decide if they are going to play the game someday, this is not helping to put me into the mood of doing so. So what does everyone else think about this?
So you've been trashig the game all this time, yet you have NEVER played it? Interesting...
Didnt she also write a review or such about the game and gave it something like 5/10. Kinda funny from someone who has yet to decide if they are going to play the game, oh well, nothing new around here.
She certainly did. I always thought that reviews should be written from first hand experience, not what you read on message boards.
She certainly did. I always thought that reviews should be written from first hand experience, not what you read on message boards.
Pretty sure she was in the beta. I remember her being involved in more than a few of those topics discussing impressions from the beta.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have been following the discussions of the guild summit and they talked about changes and additions that will be coming to patch 1.2 in April. One of them is that with the Legacy System you'll be able to unlock force users skills on non-force user classes.
For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.
Why would they do this? Doesn't this totally go against lore? Bioware was all ready playing lose with the lore, but isn't this going a little over the top. Also, if they do this, what will Force Users get? Will they get the ability to use blasters?
For someone like me that has yet decide if they are going to play the game someday, this is not helping to put me into the mood of doing so. So what does everyone else think about this?
Being force seinsitive isn't the same thing as being a sith or a jedi there are many examples of force sensitives using the force with little to no training Leah does it often and Anakin and Luke have both used it before becoming full fledged Jedi.
There are also the witches of Dathomir (remembered them out of the blue) who have never been trained as sith or jedi but they have as ful access to the force as those two orders did.
What exactly a bounty hunter is getting I am unsure but there is nothing lore breaking about a bounty hunter able to use force choke especially in the way it is currently implemented, you can only use the legacy power with a companion out and ona twenty minute timer.
Comments
I don't have much time but I want to respond to this:
"Free-roam games don't provide the same sort of entertainment as a storybased game. "
I 100% disagree with you although they're both just opinions.
Story-based games are linear and hold your hand through the content. It tells you where to go and when and you can't deviate from the story. In a sense, you're just playing a movie.
For me, that is just plain boring. If I want to watch a movie, I'll rent one. If I want to be told what to do, where, and when, I'll go down to the local government agency building.
Nah, no thanks. I like freedom in games. I like to create my own story and watch others live theirs. I don't need to be spoon-fed my destiny that comes attached to handcuffs. That's not entertaintment, that's being a slave to the game and the story they want you to endure.
You can keep your Skinner box, I'll take one with sand that comes with entrances and exits instead of dead ends.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You're still unable to comprehend that different doesn't always equal better or worse, and I'm going to go back through this thread and take a liquor shot every time I see the word "Skinner Box" in one of your posts.
The mmo second only to WoW is desperate for subs, eh?
Since the next mmo has, oh about a million less subs than SWTOR, how desperate do you calculate they are?
Get it together people.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
To Teala,
How would you feel if your bounty hunter went through an epic quest line in which she/he obtained force sensativity and subsequently learned force choke? A la Luke having next to no power in IV and slowly learning it over two more movies? I don't know.... if the farmboy class can become force sensative, I guess I'm ok with a bounty hunter too.
I guess it boils down to implementation. Implemented well, it will rock. If not, it is sarcrilige.
I could care less if it breaks the lore or not. I'm annoyed that they are PvE only abilites, just like there are some abilites that only work on weak and standard mobs. It's just stupid IMO. I was actually kind of excited about the Legacy system only to find out this info on the abilites, and the fact that you won't unlock any currently unplayable races.
The only thing that looks promising to me is the WZ (from what little I have seen), and the UI changes.
After reading this I feel no need to read anything else in this thread, should have stopped right here, as this exhange (laughing-man) is spot on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'd like to know that as well, I got the answer I was looking for on the first 2 pages. Which was answered very well by a couple of posters.
I think it is awesome that Bioware is actually trying to do something to give players more options to create unique characters. I am still going to hold off playing though until I see how the new WZ's work out and what they have planned to add more depth to the game. I'd love to see deeper space combat and more open world PvP.
It definitely does not go against lore. It doesn't seem hard to believe that not everyone who can sense or manipulate that force will be strong enough to become a Jedi. They may just learn a single ability, or several small ones. Kind of like a "wilder" in Wheel of Time.
Also, from the Q&A, regarding using heroic abilities in PVP
"
Q: How will Heroic abilities affect open-world PvP?
A: It will make it interesting, open-world PvP is more like the wild, wild west."
I'm having a blast in the game, but I'd also like to see deeper space combat and more open world PvP. Space combat as it now stands is an awesome minigame, and it's more fun than I would dare to admit face-to-face. The world PvP in Illum can be an absolute riot, but that's generally not the case.
One would think it's a bit early for Bioware to start self-destorying the game, but nowadays things go so quickly in MMOs lol.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Different is ALWAYS better or worse for someone.
Don't drink too much.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Sounds a bit gimmicky, but then again what isn't a gimmick these days with MMORPGs. I guess if people like it then good for them (and BW).
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Isn't that a quote from the Incredibles?
The best thing, ideally, Bio could do is buy the 'Rift' engine and start all over with a totally different philosophy and approach. This approach would focus on actual game design, rather than their own bottle-necked, constrained paradigm.
What the mmo desperate needed was a MASSIVE injection of FREEDOM and CHOICE, and ideally, a total redesign of graphics -- getting rid of the cartoony look and going with 100% realism (Rift as a model). Frankly the mmo is so badly designed, from engine to game philosophy, it doesn't really matter what they do, imo.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
So you've been trashig the game all this time, yet you have NEVER played it? Interesting...
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I've played the imperial agent class to 50, completing the class story. I felt once heroic in the whole class story, I got to do something that felt like any agent realistically looking could not pull off (realism in computer fantasy games lol). Most of the time I felt like I was an agent on a mission, and only a few people in the whole galaxy even knows that I exist. I dont feel special standing next to another agent, which is good since I dont want to feel heroic or special compared to him, to me he is just another agent on a mission.
I've played sith warrior to around 40, and I dont feel heroic on that class either. The difference is that a lot of people knows about me now, but they mostly fear the status of my character unless they are higher on the sith hierarchy. I dont feel heroic when I'm force chocking some fool imperial major in a dialog scene, I feel like I'm just a sith, perhaps above average, nothing godlike (especially when I fail to solo some miniboss champion...). That's how it's supposed to be when you are a sith?
I have trooper alt, not that far into the game, but I feel like I'm a commando trooper only doing my duty, what I'm ordered to do, there could be thousands others just like me across the galaxy doing their own missions. In fact, when I see another trooper he looks like anybody, not like some common guard grunt, but not some godlike Arnie, not to me at least, and that is a good thing.
I'm guessing that's how it's supposed to be, at least that's how it is to me, and I wouldnt have it any other way. I dont want to feel like the center of the galaxy, or I dont want to feel like nobody, and to me this game quite well, story wise, delivers the middle road, above average just the right way.
Is it one of the Jedi classes that makes you feel like some over the top hero, or a cloned hero among thousands?
There's also the possibility that heroism is somehow clearer theme to you hence making everything that moves feel like cloned heroes more easily, personally I havent felt very heroic in the game or the other players around me, more like someone who is doing what they are supposed to do, I never really even think that the others are actually doing the same storylines as I am, maybe that's the key feeling unique even if not heroic.
@OP, sorry that I joined the derail fest, but as you stated the answer/info regarding the original post is already on couple of the first pages!
I think this was the most informative post in this whole thread.
It just all made sense after I read this.
Didnt she also write a review or such about the game and gave it something like 5/10. Kinda funny from someone who has yet to decide if they are going to play the game, oh well, nothing new around here.
I really really like that post Kuinn. I saw this thread on the front page and came to your post.
I like how you described how the game felt.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Force powers for non force power classes is dumb and immersion breaking.
Someone mentioned Leia, but the only use of the force power I remember her having was was sensing Luke. I only remember one character using force choke.
I believe you are trying to make a literal point about a game designed for fun. I would suggest a sandbox game if you are hung up about having Uncle Owen Average Joes vs Luke Skywalker Heros spread throughout the game world.
Uncle Owen had his ass kicked to the curb in this game, and TOR is better for it afaiac.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
She certainly did. I always thought that reviews should be written from first hand experience, not what you read on message boards.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Pretty sure she was in the beta. I remember her being involved in more than a few of those topics discussing impressions from the beta.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Being force seinsitive isn't the same thing as being a sith or a jedi there are many examples of force sensitives using the force with little to no training Leah does it often and Anakin and Luke have both used it before becoming full fledged Jedi.
There are also the witches of Dathomir (remembered them out of the blue) who have never been trained as sith or jedi but they have as ful access to the force as those two orders did.
What exactly a bounty hunter is getting I am unsure but there is nothing lore breaking about a bounty hunter able to use force choke especially in the way it is currently implemented, you can only use the legacy power with a companion out and ona twenty minute timer.