The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
only the PVE zones have overflow servers.
the wvw zones do not create multiple instances.
I know the wvw "instances" dont create additonal copies. I was simply stating that yet again all the pvp goodies are in fact instanced. My statement was in reply to someone who said GW2 zones were not instanced.
i'm sorry.. i thought your implication was that a zone had to have copies to be classified as an instance.
i did not realize all zones/areas in games were instances by your definition. i see now, thanks!
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
if you take into consideration that what many here are calling a map for W v W is actually just as big as the whole PVE world.
than as far as I'm concerned they are wrong, W v W is open world PVP at it's best.
my definition of ganking does not happen in GW2 which is, a max level jumping a lv 10 player.
in W v W it is all about skill, you can jump anyone and ambush anyone, but if your skill as a player is inferior it won't matter that you're max level and he's only lv 10 as all stats are somewhat normalized, sure you will have more utility skills and elite skills than the lv 10 player but that don't mean you will automatically trash him.
- If you like a challenge, which most pvp players do, you will like it once you try it, don't let the word instanced fool you
it almost did fool me till I tried it for myself, it's the best thing you can do try it for yourself than make a decision.
- if all you want is a win advantage and be sure you will never lose to anyone so you can satisfy your ego than no it's not for you, If your definition of open world PVP is jumping lower levels that have no chance of winning against you, than sure thing by all means stay away from GW2, I and a whole many others DO NOT WANT YOU IN GW2 !
The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
only the PVE zones have overflow servers.
the wvw zones do not create multiple instances.
I know the wvw "instances" dont create additonal copies. I was simply stating that yet again all the pvp goodies are in fact instanced. My statement was in reply to someone who said GW2 zones were not instanced.
i'm sorry.. i thought your implication was that a zone had to have copies to be classified as an instance.
i did not realize all zones/areas in games were instances by your definition. i see now, thanks!
Its not my definition... I cant take credit for that
If the world is not seamless then what is it?
When you have to load into towns/zones thats an instanced world. When you can freely run from zone to zone to town etc.. thats a seamless world.
I prefer a seamless world and open world pvp. The only aspect of a game I prefer to be instanced is PVE dungeons although open world dungeons can lead to some awesome pvp battles.
No OP, there is no open world PvP in GW2. They will try to tell you differently, but there is nothing but consentual, instanced, nut-cupping PvP. You will NEVER risk getting killed unless you give the other player permission first.
The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
this is a lie there are no instanced other then you personal story. yes thre is an overflow server and when you get moved there you are told so and it only happens if the main one is full.
so stop trying to make is sound like every time you use a waypoint or gate you end up in a differnt instance
The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
this is a lie there are no instanced other then you personal story. yes thre is an overflow server and when you get moved there you are told so and it only happens if the main one is full.
so stop trying to make is sound like every time you use a waypoint or gate you end up in a differnt instance
That sir is a lie...
Every zone in GW2 is instanced. That is a fact.
In mmos there are seamless worlds and there are instanced worlds.
GW2 is instanced.
I think its funny how many people talk about how immersed they feel in this game and how the dynamic events make the world feel alive.
Instanced zones and loading screens absolutely kill immersion.
Open world PvP has never worked regardless of what anyone thinks. At no time in the history of this so called World PvP has it resulted in anything other then glorified gankfests.
Someone should tell Eve Online devs that open world pvp doesn't work, and their whole game is a sham because this guy said so.
Yea things like Tarren Mill and Southshore or Blackrock mountain were fun but because it was organized not because you had the ability to kill anyone, anywhere.
Wait, you just said it has never worked couple lines ago, now you are saying it worked because it was organized in an open world
For the most part those sorts of fun open world encounters will be found in Zones specifically set up for PvP such as in the case of WvW in GW2. Open World PvP i nthe form of a WoW PvP servers result in nothign less then griefing.
Onh I see, it didn't work before Arenanet, but because GW2 exists, NOW it works, only in a instance, thats not really an instance but a zone, but not really a zone more like an open world with a population cap, but only open for 3 realms, and for 2 weeks, then it gets reset with new contendors, BUT DONT CALL IT AN INSTANCE! Even with its 2 week limit and population cap, that may or MAY NOY get upped according to facts, and by facts i mean some random mmorpg.com forum poster
I have to admit, for a long time I disagreed with you on this, and was with most other saying it was OW PvP. But I finally realized that those trying to pay attention to detail are ignoring the details that go against what they are saying.
Lets look at the definition of an Instance:
1. It is a zone that is closed from the start.
WvW is closed from the start, but not by the server, just other servers. Due to the way WvW is designed, this concept becomes a valid factor in terms of multiple servers being involved. Other games do not have zones containing multiple servers, so the other games do not apply in this area.
2. It is a temporary zone.
Despite how long the cycle time is, there is still a very short period of time where the zone ceases to exist before being created again with newly assigned participants, and upon this time, locking all other servers out of this zone.
3. It is a duplicated zone.
WvW is indeed a duplicated zone, since all servers are not in one WvW map at once, they all have thier own WvW zone per three servers. This leads me to conclude that WvW is, indeed, instanced pvp. And the sole cause of this conclusion is the fact that multiple servers participate in it.
If ANet were to remove the server rotation, the cycling, and limit the number of available servers to 3, then WvW would become truely OW PvP. But until then, it is instanced.
WvWvW is a big new twist on world pvp. You have to travel to the zone, via portals/ports etc, from there everything else is up to the players. There will always be an ongoing war between 3 servers, and anyone can take part and contribute to the war effort. Its a truely amazing feature for any pvp player. I am one of those people who does not enjoy instanced pvp and prefer open world, and this is almost perfect.
Open world PvP has never worked regardless of what anyone thinks. At no time in the history of this so called World PvP has it resulted in anything other then glorified gankfests.
Someone should tell Eve Online devs that open world pvp doesn't work, and their whole game is a sham because this guy said so.
Yea things like Tarren Mill and Southshore or Blackrock mountain were fun but because it was organized not because you had the ability to kill anyone, anywhere.
Wait, you just said it has never worked couple lines ago, now you are saying it worked because it was organized in an open world
For the most part those sorts of fun open world encounters will be found in Zones specifically set up for PvP such as in the case of WvW in GW2. Open World PvP i nthe form of a WoW PvP servers result in nothign less then griefing.
Onh I see, it didn't work before Arenanet, but because GW2 exists, NOW it works, only in a instance, thats not really an instance but a zone, but not really a zone more like an open world with a population cap, but only open for 3 realms, and for 2 weeks, then it gets reset with new contendors, BUT DONT CALL IT AN INSTANCE! Even with its 2 week limit and population cap, that may or MAY NOY get upped according to facts, and by facts i mean some random mmorpg.com forum poster
I have to admit, for a long time I disagreed with you on this, and was with most other saying it was OW PvP. But I finally realized that those trying to pay attention to detail are ignoring the details that go against what they are saying.
Lets look at the definition of an Instance:
1. It is a zone that is closed from the start.
WvW is closed from the start, but not by the server, just other servers. Due to the way WvW is designed, this concept becomes a valid factor in terms of multiple servers being involved. Other games do not have zones containing multiple servers, so the other games do not apply in this area.
2. It is a temporary zone.
Despite how long the cycle time is, there is still a very short period of time where the zone ceases to exist before being created again with newly assigned participants, and upon this time, locking all other servers out of this zone.
3. It is a duplicated zone.
WvW is indeed a duplicated zone, since all servers are not in one WvW map at once, they all have thier own WvW zone per three servers. This leads me to conclude that WvW is, indeed, instanced pvp. And the sole cause of this conclusion is the fact that multiple servers participate in it.
If ANet were to remove the server rotation, the cycling, and limit the number of available servers to 3, then WvW would become truely OW PvP. But until then, it is instanced.
It would still be instanced even if they did that.
I think alot of people are confused about what instanced means.
A seamless world you can travel from zone to zone or into a town without any loading screens.. hence why they call it an seamless world.
GW2 is an instanced world. Whether its queing up for a pvp match or loading into a special zone... its instanced. cant exactly argue that.
Open world PvP has never worked regardless of what anyone thinks. At no time in the history of this so called World PvP has it resulted in anything other then glorified gankfests.
Someone should tell Eve Online devs that open world pvp doesn't work, and their whole game is a sham because this guy said so.
Yea things like Tarren Mill and Southshore or Blackrock mountain were fun but because it was organized not because you had the ability to kill anyone, anywhere.
Wait, you just said it has never worked couple lines ago, now you are saying it worked because it was organized in an open world
For the most part those sorts of fun open world encounters will be found in Zones specifically set up for PvP such as in the case of WvW in GW2. Open World PvP i nthe form of a WoW PvP servers result in nothign less then griefing.
Onh I see, it didn't work before Arenanet, but because GW2 exists, NOW it works, only in a instance, thats not really an instance but a zone, but not really a zone more like an open world with a population cap, but only open for 3 realms, and for 2 weeks, then it gets reset with new contendors, BUT DONT CALL IT AN INSTANCE! Even with its 2 week limit and population cap, that may or MAY NOY get upped according to facts, and by facts i mean some random mmorpg.com forum poster
I have to admit, for a long time I disagreed with you on this, and was with most other saying it was OW PvP. But I finally realized that those trying to pay attention to detail are ignoring the details that go against what they are saying.
Lets look at the definition of an Instance:
1. It is a zone that is closed from the start.
WvW is closed from the start, but not by the server, just other servers. Due to the way WvW is designed, this concept becomes a valid factor in terms of multiple servers being involved. Other games do not have zones containing multiple servers, so the other games do not apply in this area.
2. It is a temporary zone.
Despite how long the cycle time is, there is still a very short period of time where the zone ceases to exist before being created again with newly assigned participants, and upon this time, locking all other servers out of this zone.
3. It is a duplicated zone.
WvW is indeed a duplicated zone, since all servers are not in one WvW map at once, they all have thier own WvW zone per three servers. This leads me to conclude that WvW is, indeed, instanced pvp. And the sole cause of this conclusion is the fact that multiple servers participate in it.
If ANet were to remove the server rotation, the cycling, and limit the number of available servers to 3, then WvW would become truely OW PvP. But until then, it is instanced.
It would still be instanced even if they did that.
I think alot of people are confused about what instanced means.
A seamless world you can travel from zone to zone or into a town without any loading screens.. hence why they call it an instanced world.
GW2 is an instanced world. Whether its queing up for a pvp match or loading into a special zone... its instanced. cant exactly argue that.
You're right. (No sarcasm btw) I was going to say "No its zoned not instanced" but really, zoned with an overflow server creates an instance, and thus, GW2 is instanced in its entirety. I have no issue with this fact, and the change of my point of view will not in any way effect my enjoyment of the game, nor should it to anyone else. A simple classification change does not change the object being classified. Those that live life by stereotypes and labels will disagree I suspect.
The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
this is a lie there are no instanced other then you personal story. yes thre is an overflow server and when you get moved there you are told so and it only happens if the main one is full.
so stop trying to make is sound like every time you use a waypoint or gate you end up in a differnt instance
That sir is a lie...
Every zone in GW2 is instanced. That is a fact.
In mmos there are seamless worlds and there are instanced worlds.
GW2 is instanced.
I think its funny how many people talk about how immersed they feel in this game and how the dynamic events make the world feel alive.
Instanced zones and loading screens absolutely kill immersion.
no wrong again and instance is a copy of the same zone not a differnt zone.
and also if i walk from one end of the zone to the other i am in the same instance but if i use a waypoit and get the load screen i must be in a differnt instanced as i got a load screen
The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
this is a lie there are no instanced other then you personal story. yes thre is an overflow server and when you get moved there you are told so and it only happens if the main one is full.
so stop trying to make is sound like every time you use a waypoint or gate you end up in a differnt instance
That sir is a lie...
Every zone in GW2 is instanced. That is a fact.
In mmos there are seamless worlds and there are instanced worlds.
GW2 is instanced.
I think its funny how many people talk about how immersed they feel in this game and how the dynamic events make the world feel alive.
Instanced zones and loading screens absolutely kill immersion.
no wrong again and instance is a copy of the same zone not a differnt zone.
and also if i walk from one end of the zone to the other i am in the same instance but if i use a waypoit and get the load screen i must be in a differnt instanced as i got a load screen
no.
anytime you have to load into a new zone.. its instanced. Otherwise it would be seamless and you wouldnt be starring at a loading screen (obviously fast travel methods are excluded). Fast travel is an option. You can have fast travel features in a seamless world. But in GW2 you can not travel from one zone to another freely without zoning... because its INSTANCED. We are not talking about whether a single zone is instanced or not.. we are talking about the GW2 game world. It is instanced. That doesnt make it bad... most mmos are instanced or have instanced pvp or dungeons.
It doesnt have to have 10 copies of a zone to be instanced. It can just have1 its still instanced.
an MMO world can be one of two things.
1) Seamless
2) Instanced
GW2 is instanced. Again I have said nothing bad about the game, the fact your trying to deny basic facts is cute tho
No OP, there is no open world PvP in GW2. They will try to tell you differently, but there is nothing but consentual, instanced, nut-cupping PvP. You will NEVER risk getting killed unless you give the other player permission first.
When I read this I cannot help but to think, here is someone that has clearly never played W v W.
you're saying there's no risk, dude the whole thing is an adrenaline infused battle for survival.
you might jump someone because you think they are alone and all of a sudden another comrad jumps from the shadows to stomp you in the face with a huge hammer, oh shit I'm gonna die.......!
Sure we are all there knowing we are in a PVP zone, that don't mean the risk factor is gone, that is what makes it so great....
plus there's PVE inside W v W making it even more oportunistic, wait inside a strategic place where noone can see you and jump them at your leisusre, just make sure he's alone or far away from comrads or you're fish food in a matter of seconds.
There's no asking for permission, there's no consent form requirement, you just jump the enemy and hope you can kill him before he trashes you. That is it, the only thing missing from this form of PVP is the stupid ganking that ruins almost all PVP communities in the end, which is another thing that comes to mind when I read your post.
Here's yet another ganker that doesn't like it becasue oh poor me I can't jump people while they quest and be assured I will win the fight.
ofcourse a ganker would never say it like that, so we here the frequent:
- I'm a pure open world PVP player, and that isn't it or
- I'm a purist and that is not open world PVP, purely speaking ofcourse or
- there's nothing but consensual PVP. (this new one added because of you)
Any true no ganker PVP player will love the W v W idealogy.
lol, how in the world did this thread reach this many pages?
No, it doesn't.
Open World PvP can take place anywhere, at any time. EVE and Darkfall have open world PvP. UO has open world PvP. Most MUDs had/have open world PvP.
You can PvE in GW2 without ever being at any risk of being killed - You simply can't twist that into being open world PvP.
GW2 devides the two, there's no PVP in the PVE world sure there's no denying that...
but your point about happening anytime anywhere is nullfied by W v W, PVP happens anytime anywhere.
again this sounds like ganker whining to me. Oh I can't jump questing players and kill them so it's not open world PVP, go into W v W and ambush questing players there, but you won't be able to mercilessly trash them. That is the main difference between the two and the one thing most (there's no open world PVP whiners don't like) so again your point about it not happening anytime anywhre is null and mute.
Ok, maybe using a more universal definition might clear a few things up.
programming instance definition An individual object of a certain class. While a class is just the type definition, an actual usage of a class is called "instance". Each instance of a class can have different values for itsinstance variables, i.e. its state. (1998-03-06)
This means that an instance is just an object with different variables. So by this definition, even though the area is different than another, that is exactly why it is an instance. Only if there is no seperation at all can there be any claims to having an open world. (Normal, duplicate zones fit into this definition as well, since the changed variables in such instances is the players in it, instead of the environment.)
But this means that if there is ever a loading screen anywhere, even one, it is no longer open world. So dungeon instances would cause the game as a whole to be instanced by this definition.
no world pvp where i can randomly gank was the dealbreaker for me even if i liked the 2 BWE i played. but if it doesnt offer what i am looking for.
I dislike 'open world PvP' for same reasons you like it. To each their own i guess
Don't bother with ii, he/she/it never really liked guild wars 2 and if you read said persons post history you would see he/she/it has hated EVERYTHING about guild wars 2, so just add this to the list. just a said trolling attempt.
gah . another jaded gw2 fanboy.
also dont bother replying. i wont chek for answer.
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
Personally I would stick to playing FF XI as that will be more up your street and if you spent half the time checking out what the pvp is in GW2 you would of known that there is no open world pvp, never has been and never was going to be.
Maybe you should check out DF or MO they might suit your skills more if it's ganking you looking for.
lol, how in the world did this thread reach this many pages?
No, it doesn't.
Open World PvP can take place anywhere, at any time. EVE and Darkfall have open world PvP. UO has open world PvP. Most MUDs had/have open world PvP.
You can PvE in GW2 without ever being at any risk of being killed - You simply can't twist that into being open world PvP.
I have no idea. I was writing a comment for about 5 minutes and the page count jumped from 19 to 43. I suspect a mod decided to consolidate simular threads into one thread.
no world pvp where i can randomly gank was the dealbreaker for me even if i liked the 2 BWE i played. but if it doesnt offer what i am looking for.
I dislike 'open world PvP' for same reasons you like it. To each their own i guess
Don't bother with ii, he/she/it never really liked guild wars 2 and if you read said persons post history you would see he/she/it has hated EVERYTHING about guild wars 2, so just add this to the list. just a said trolling attempt.
gah . another jaded gw2 fanboy.
also dont bother replying. i wont chek for answer.
TO Thralia:
at least you're honest about what it really is that turns you off from GW2, instead of trying to hide it like most do.
I respect you for that, you say it straight like it is, there's no ganking possibility so I don't like it.
no world pvp where i can randomly gank was the dealbreaker for me even if i liked the 2 BWE i played. but if it doesnt offer what i am looking for.
I dislike 'open world PvP' for same reasons you like it. To each their own i guess
Don't bother with ii, he/she/it never really liked guild wars 2 and if you read said persons post history you would see he/she/it has hated EVERYTHING about guild wars 2, so just add this to the list. just a said trolling attempt.
gah . another jaded gw2 fanboy.
also dont bother replying. i wont chek for answer.
TO Thralia:
at least you're honest about what it really is that turns you off from GW2, instead of trying to hide it like most do.
I respect you for that, you say it straight like it is, there's no ganking possibility so I don't like it.
Really, I guess I can change my POV on ganking too. Only the unaware and unprepared get ganked. The rest stay alert or stay out of areas that typically get ganked. Unfairness is a part of life, and to some it is a joyous part, and to some it's not so much.
But really, by playing a game that is OW PvP, you are consenting to play in a PvE world with PvP possibility from the start. Those that don't realize they are playing a game with such features are the ones that get ganked, then whine about how unfair it is. Life has never been fair, and there are always ways to get around the unfairness, like what I pointed out above. GW2 only makes people a little more aware that they are choosing to be in an environment that is PvP oriented and allows for PvE as well.
Ganking is still possible in WvW, and I won't be naive in thinking that it won't happen. Gear still plays a roll in GW2, and I'm thinking a slightly bigger one than most are choosing to see. It doesn't go so far as to be worth more than skill, but enough to allow players of lower skill and higher gear to prevail over those of equal or slightly higher skill level depending on the gear differences.
no world pvp where i can randomly gank was the dealbreaker for me even if i liked the 2 BWE i played. but if it doesnt offer what i am looking for.
I dislike 'open world PvP' for same reasons you like it. To each their own i guess
Don't bother with ii, he/she/it never really liked guild wars 2 and if you read said persons post history you would see he/she/it has hated EVERYTHING about guild wars 2, so just add this to the list. just a said trolling attempt.
gah . another jaded gw2 fanboy.
also dont bother replying. i wont chek for answer.
TO Thralia:
at least you're honest about what it really is that turns you off from GW2, instead of trying to hide it like most do.
I respect you for that, you say it straight like it is, there's no ganking possibility so I don't like it.
Really, I guess I can change my POV on ganking too. Only the unaware and unprepared get ganked. The rest stay alert or stay out of areas that typically get ganked. Unfairness is a part of life, and to some it is a joyous part, and to some it's not so much.
But really, by playing a game that is OW PvP, you are consenting to play in a PvE world with PvP possibility from the start. Those that don't realize they are playing a game with such features are the ones that get ganked, then whine about how unfair it is. Life has never been fair, and there are always ways to get around the unfairness, like what I pointed out above. GW2 only makes people a little more aware that they are choosing to be in an environment that is PvP oriented and allows for PvE as well.
Ganking is still possible in WvW, and I won't be naive in thinking that it won't happen. Gear still plays a roll in GW2, and I'm thinking a slightly bigger one than most are choosing to see. It doesn't go so far as to be worth more than skill, but enough to allow players of lower skill and higher gear to prevail over those of equal or slightly higher skill level depending on the gear differences.
TO Aishirami:
I understand your point very well ou should read my previous post on this page it's post nr. 442
in which I pretty much said in other words what you just said to me. This one was posted just to praise an honest ganker that says it straight like it is, he doesn't like it cause there's no ganking.
But sure in post nr. 442 I do say ganking and ambushing is still possible and thrilling simply because even if you jump someone he might be lower lv than you but if your skill level is to low he will obliterate you anyway. it is by far the best type of ganking, in which the victim still might have a chance of winning provided he has the skillset.
Really, I guess I can change my POV on ganking too. Only the unaware and unprepared get ganked. The rest stay alert or stay out of areas that typically get ganked. Unfairness is a part of life, and to some it is a joyous part, and to some it's not so much.
But really, by playing a game that is OW PvP, you are consenting to play in a PvE world with PvP possibility from the start. Those that don't realize they are playing a game with such features are the ones that get ganked, then whine about how unfair it is. Life has never been fair, and there are always ways to get around the unfairness, like what I pointed out above. GW2 only makes people a little more aware that they are choosing to be in an environment that is PvP oriented and allows for PvE as well.
Ganking is still possible in WvW, and I won't be naive in thinking that it won't happen. Gear still plays a roll in GW2, and I'm thinking a slightly bigger one than most are choosing to see. It doesn't go so far as to be worth more than skill, but enough to allow players of lower skill and higher gear to prevail over those of equal or slightly higher skill level depending on the gear differences.
TO Aishirami:
I understand your point very well ou should read my previous post on this page it's post nr. 442
in which I pretty much said in other words what you just said to me. This one was posted just to praise an honest ganker that says it straight like it is, he doesn't like it cause there's no ganking.
But sure in post nr. 442 I do say ganking and ambushing is still possible and thrilling simply because even if you jump someone he might be lower lv than you but if your skill level is to low he will obliterate you anyway. it is by far the best type of ganking, in which the victim still might have a chance of winning provided he has the skillset.
Yes, I really was just trying to allow people to realize that gankers really shouldn't get all this hatred because the gankee was too..... (ok I really don't have any good way of saying this, so I'll just say it.) stupid to take the required procaucions to ensure thier own safety.
I would also like to emphasize that I am not a ganker, and have little PvP experience. I do have experience dealing with gankers, however, which is why I am speaking from experience when I say a gankee isn't completely helpless.
Also, I am really looking forward to WvW, despite agreeing with a lot of the aspects that most GW2 fans disagree with. I think ganking will mean more in GW2, but those fans that say WvW is designed to not allow it are clearly not seeing what is in front of them completely.
I am thinking that instead of just one person getting ganked by a few people, just a small group will get ganked my a larger one. That is how battle works, and is the entire premise of tactical warfare.
BTW: I am building on what you have been saying, as it seems we are almost on the exact same page. :P
The size of the zones are irrelevant.. it is still instanced. In fact GW2 makes multiple instances of the same zone to deal with player numbers..
There are plenty of people who enjoy open world pvp and dont spend their time ganking/griefing. Its usually better when its faction based and not FFA but its still alot more fun and exciting than esports (IMHO).
only the PVE zones have overflow servers.
the wvw zones do not create multiple instances.
I know the wvw "instances" dont create additonal copies. I was simply stating that yet again all the pvp goodies are in fact instanced. My statement was in reply to someone who said GW2 zones were not instanced.
i'm sorry.. i thought your implication was that a zone had to have copies to be classified as an instance.
i did not realize all zones/areas in games were instances by your definition. i see now, thanks!
Its not my definition... I cant take credit for that
If the world is not seamless then what is it?
When you have to load into towns/zones thats an instanced world. When you can freely run from zone to zone to town etc.. thats a seamless world.
I prefer a seamless world and open world pvp. The only aspect of a game I prefer to be instanced is PVE dungeons although open world dungeons can lead to some awesome pvp battles.
i get you.
i disagree that the opposite of "seamless" is "instanced." i think the opposite of "seamless" is "having seams" and that is what it is, no more and no less.
personally, i use the more common definition for "instance" that we've used for years in MMOs where an area makes copies of itself to accomodate new players/groups of players.
you're free to make up your own definition and argue them obviously, but that can lead to problems when games like Tera online suddenly don't have open world pvp anymore because its all instanced.
more power to you though, by your definition GW2 obviously lacks open world pvp. as does Tera and Ultima Online (in most of its forms today)! kind of a strange way to go about arguing a point, redefining a term that we've all used for over a decade just to say a game doesn't have something that it would if you hadn't played such a strange rhetorical trick.
its strange to me too that GW2 technically has open world pvp by many standards. considering it obviously doesn't seem to by most subjective and less well defined standards. but that is what it is and i wouldn't really go bending over backwards to fight it. rather i would say "neat" and move along.
Really, I guess I can change my POV on ganking too. Only the unaware and unprepared get ganked. The rest stay alert or stay out of areas that typically get ganked. Unfairness is a part of life, and to some it is a joyous part, and to some it's not so much.
But really, by playing a game that is OW PvP, you are consenting to play in a PvE world with PvP possibility from the start. Those that don't realize they are playing a game with such features are the ones that get ganked, then whine about how unfair it is. Life has never been fair, and there are always ways to get around the unfairness, like what I pointed out above. GW2 only makes people a little more aware that they are choosing to be in an environment that is PvP oriented and allows for PvE as well.
Ganking is still possible in WvW, and I won't be naive in thinking that it won't happen. Gear still plays a roll in GW2, and I'm thinking a slightly bigger one than most are choosing to see. It doesn't go so far as to be worth more than skill, but enough to allow players of lower skill and higher gear to prevail over those of equal or slightly higher skill level depending on the gear differences.
TO Aishirami:
I understand your point very well ou should read my previous post on this page it's post nr. 442
in which I pretty much said in other words what you just said to me. This one was posted just to praise an honest ganker that says it straight like it is, he doesn't like it cause there's no ganking.
But sure in post nr. 442 I do say ganking and ambushing is still possible and thrilling simply because even if you jump someone he might be lower lv than you but if your skill level is to low he will obliterate you anyway. it is by far the best type of ganking, in which the victim still might have a chance of winning provided he has the skillset.
Also, I am really looking forward to WvW, despite agreeing with a lot of the aspects that most GW2 fans disagree with. I think ganking will mean more in GW2, but those fans that say WvW is designed to not allow it are clearly not seeing what is in front of them completely.
I don't think anybody ever said they wont be ganking because ganking is not really the problem when it comes to Open world PvP. The main problems with World world PvP has been fixed by WvW's implimentation. WvW removes griefing lowbies and to a lesser degree PvErs.
While there is a level difference, if getting attack is an issue you are pretty much go level in a safe zone (PvE) until you are ready to do WvW, if you hate getting attack by high level characters.
The other problem if you are in WvW, you pretty much are expected to PvP. And so there are sometimes when you want a break from PvP to do some PvE stuff for money, the separation of WvW and PvE allows someone to take a break from PvP.
Not saying WvW is perfect or even close cuz its not and imo it kinda blows sometimes, but it sucks far less than having world PvP.
Comments
i'm sorry.. i thought your implication was that a zone had to have copies to be classified as an instance.
i did not realize all zones/areas in games were instances by your definition. i see now, thanks!
if you take into consideration that what many here are calling a map for W v W is actually just as big as the whole PVE world.
than as far as I'm concerned they are wrong, W v W is open world PVP at it's best.
my definition of ganking does not happen in GW2 which is, a max level jumping a lv 10 player.
in W v W it is all about skill, you can jump anyone and ambush anyone, but if your skill as a player is inferior it won't matter that you're max level and he's only lv 10 as all stats are somewhat normalized, sure you will have more utility skills and elite skills than the lv 10 player but that don't mean you will automatically trash him.
- If you like a challenge, which most pvp players do, you will like it once you try it, don't let the word instanced fool you
it almost did fool me till I tried it for myself, it's the best thing you can do try it for yourself than make a decision.
- if all you want is a win advantage and be sure you will never lose to anyone so you can satisfy your ego than no it's not for you, If your definition of open world PVP is jumping lower levels that have no chance of winning against you, than sure thing by all means stay away from GW2, I and a whole many others DO NOT WANT YOU IN GW2 !
Angry Joe's Guild Wars 2 video review
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
@Taugrim explains why the fanbois don't get it
Its not my definition... I cant take credit for that
If the world is not seamless then what is it?
When you have to load into towns/zones thats an instanced world. When you can freely run from zone to zone to town etc.. thats a seamless world.
I prefer a seamless world and open world pvp. The only aspect of a game I prefer to be instanced is PVE dungeons although open world dungeons can lead to some awesome pvp battles.
No OP, there is no open world PvP in GW2. They will try to tell you differently, but there is nothing but consentual, instanced, nut-cupping PvP. You will NEVER risk getting killed unless you give the other player permission first.
this is a lie there are no instanced other then you personal story. yes thre is an overflow server and when you get moved there you are told so and it only happens if the main one is full.
so stop trying to make is sound like every time you use a waypoint or gate you end up in a differnt instance
That sir is a lie...
Every zone in GW2 is instanced. That is a fact.
In mmos there are seamless worlds and there are instanced worlds.
GW2 is instanced.
I think its funny how many people talk about how immersed they feel in this game and how the dynamic events make the world feel alive.
Instanced zones and loading screens absolutely kill immersion.
I have to admit, for a long time I disagreed with you on this, and was with most other saying it was OW PvP. But I finally realized that those trying to pay attention to detail are ignoring the details that go against what they are saying.
Lets look at the definition of an Instance:
1. It is a zone that is closed from the start.
WvW is closed from the start, but not by the server, just other servers. Due to the way WvW is designed, this concept becomes a valid factor in terms of multiple servers being involved. Other games do not have zones containing multiple servers, so the other games do not apply in this area.
2. It is a temporary zone.
Despite how long the cycle time is, there is still a very short period of time where the zone ceases to exist before being created again with newly assigned participants, and upon this time, locking all other servers out of this zone.
3. It is a duplicated zone.
WvW is indeed a duplicated zone, since all servers are not in one WvW map at once, they all have thier own WvW zone per three servers. This leads me to conclude that WvW is, indeed, instanced pvp. And the sole cause of this conclusion is the fact that multiple servers participate in it.
If ANet were to remove the server rotation, the cycling, and limit the number of available servers to 3, then WvW would become truely OW PvP. But until then, it is instanced.
WvWvW is a big new twist on world pvp. You have to travel to the zone, via portals/ports etc, from there everything else is up to the players. There will always be an ongoing war between 3 servers, and anyone can take part and contribute to the war effort. Its a truely amazing feature for any pvp player. I am one of those people who does not enjoy instanced pvp and prefer open world, and this is almost perfect.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
It would still be instanced even if they did that.
I think alot of people are confused about what instanced means.
A seamless world you can travel from zone to zone or into a town without any loading screens.. hence why they call it an seamless world.
GW2 is an instanced world. Whether its queing up for a pvp match or loading into a special zone... its instanced. cant exactly argue that.
I never said the WvW was bad either, btw
You're right. (No sarcasm btw) I was going to say "No its zoned not instanced" but really, zoned with an overflow server creates an instance, and thus, GW2 is instanced in its entirety. I have no issue with this fact, and the change of my point of view will not in any way effect my enjoyment of the game, nor should it to anyone else. A simple classification change does not change the object being classified. Those that live life by stereotypes and labels will disagree I suspect.
no wrong again and instance is a copy of the same zone not a differnt zone.
and also if i walk from one end of the zone to the other i am in the same instance but if i use a waypoit and get the load screen i must be in a differnt instanced as i got a load screen
no.
anytime you have to load into a new zone.. its instanced. Otherwise it would be seamless and you wouldnt be starring at a loading screen (obviously fast travel methods are excluded). Fast travel is an option. You can have fast travel features in a seamless world. But in GW2 you can not travel from one zone to another freely without zoning... because its INSTANCED. We are not talking about whether a single zone is instanced or not.. we are talking about the GW2 game world. It is instanced. That doesnt make it bad... most mmos are instanced or have instanced pvp or dungeons.
It doesnt have to have 10 copies of a zone to be instanced. It can just have1 its still instanced.
an MMO world can be one of two things.
1) Seamless
2) Instanced
GW2 is instanced. Again I have said nothing bad about the game, the fact your trying to deny basic facts is cute tho
lol, how in the world did this thread reach this many pages?
No, it doesn't.
Open World PvP can take place anywhere, at any time. EVE and Darkfall have open world PvP. UO has open world PvP. Most MUDs had/have open world PvP.
You can PvE in GW2 without ever being at any risk of being killed - You simply can't twist that into being open world PvP.
When I read this I cannot help but to think, here is someone that has clearly never played W v W.
you're saying there's no risk, dude the whole thing is an adrenaline infused battle for survival.
you might jump someone because you think they are alone and all of a sudden another comrad jumps from the shadows to stomp you in the face with a huge hammer, oh shit I'm gonna die.......!
Sure we are all there knowing we are in a PVP zone, that don't mean the risk factor is gone, that is what makes it so great....
plus there's PVE inside W v W making it even more oportunistic, wait inside a strategic place where noone can see you and jump them at your leisusre, just make sure he's alone or far away from comrads or you're fish food in a matter of seconds.
There's no asking for permission, there's no consent form requirement, you just jump the enemy and hope you can kill him before he trashes you. That is it, the only thing missing from this form of PVP is the stupid ganking that ruins almost all PVP communities in the end, which is another thing that comes to mind when I read your post.
Here's yet another ganker that doesn't like it becasue oh poor me I can't jump people while they quest and be assured I will win the fight.
ofcourse a ganker would never say it like that, so we here the frequent:
- I'm a pure open world PVP player, and that isn't it or
- I'm a purist and that is not open world PVP, purely speaking ofcourse or
- there's nothing but consensual PVP. (this new one added because of you)
Any true no ganker PVP player will love the W v W idealogy.
Ganking is not PVP get over yourself.
Angry Joe's Guild Wars 2 video review
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
@Taugrim explains why the fanbois don't get it
GW2 devides the two, there's no PVP in the PVE world sure there's no denying that...
but your point about happening anytime anywhere is nullfied by W v W, PVP happens anytime anywhere.
again this sounds like ganker whining to me. Oh I can't jump questing players and kill them so it's not open world PVP, go into W v W and ambush questing players there, but you won't be able to mercilessly trash them. That is the main difference between the two and the one thing most (there's no open world PVP whiners don't like) so again your point about it not happening anytime anywhre is null and mute.
Angry Joe's Guild Wars 2 video review
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
@Taugrim explains why the fanbois don't get it
Ok, maybe using a more universal definition might clear a few things up.
programming
instance definition An individual object of a certain class. While a class is just the type definition, an actual usage of a class is called "instance". Each instance of a class can have different values for itsinstance variables, i.e. its state.
(1998-03-06)
This means that an instance is just an object with different variables. So by this definition, even though the area is different than another, that is exactly why it is an instance. Only if there is no seperation at all can there be any claims to having an open world. (Normal, duplicate zones fit into this definition as well, since the changed variables in such instances is the players in it, instead of the environment.)
But this means that if there is ever a loading screen anywhere, even one, it is no longer open world. So dungeon instances would cause the game as a whole to be instanced by this definition.
gah . another jaded gw2 fanboy.
also dont bother replying. i wont chek for answer.
Personally I would stick to playing FF XI as that will be more up your street and if you spent half the time checking out what the pvp is in GW2 you would of known that there is no open world pvp, never has been and never was going to be.
Maybe you should check out DF or MO they might suit your skills more if it's ganking you looking for.
Bandit
Asbo
I have no idea. I was writing a comment for about 5 minutes and the page count jumped from 19 to 43. I suspect a mod decided to consolidate simular threads into one thread.
TO Thralia:
at least you're honest about what it really is that turns you off from GW2, instead of trying to hide it like most do.
I respect you for that, you say it straight like it is, there's no ganking possibility so I don't like it.
Angry Joe's Guild Wars 2 video review
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
@Taugrim explains why the fanbois don't get it
Really, I guess I can change my POV on ganking too. Only the unaware and unprepared get ganked. The rest stay alert or stay out of areas that typically get ganked. Unfairness is a part of life, and to some it is a joyous part, and to some it's not so much.
But really, by playing a game that is OW PvP, you are consenting to play in a PvE world with PvP possibility from the start. Those that don't realize they are playing a game with such features are the ones that get ganked, then whine about how unfair it is. Life has never been fair, and there are always ways to get around the unfairness, like what I pointed out above. GW2 only makes people a little more aware that they are choosing to be in an environment that is PvP oriented and allows for PvE as well.
Ganking is still possible in WvW, and I won't be naive in thinking that it won't happen. Gear still plays a roll in GW2, and I'm thinking a slightly bigger one than most are choosing to see. It doesn't go so far as to be worth more than skill, but enough to allow players of lower skill and higher gear to prevail over those of equal or slightly higher skill level depending on the gear differences.
TO Aishirami:
I understand your point very well ou should read my previous post on this page it's post nr. 442
in which I pretty much said in other words what you just said to me. This one was posted just to praise an honest ganker that says it straight like it is, he doesn't like it cause there's no ganking.
But sure in post nr. 442 I do say ganking and ambushing is still possible and thrilling simply because even if you jump someone he might be lower lv than you but if your skill level is to low he will obliterate you anyway. it is by far the best type of ganking, in which the victim still might have a chance of winning provided he has the skillset.
Angry Joe's Guild Wars 2 video review
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
@Taugrim explains why the fanbois don't get it
Yes, I really was just trying to allow people to realize that gankers really shouldn't get all this hatred because the gankee was too..... (ok I really don't have any good way of saying this, so I'll just say it.) stupid to take the required procaucions to ensure thier own safety.
I would also like to emphasize that I am not a ganker, and have little PvP experience. I do have experience dealing with gankers, however, which is why I am speaking from experience when I say a gankee isn't completely helpless.
Also, I am really looking forward to WvW, despite agreeing with a lot of the aspects that most GW2 fans disagree with. I think ganking will mean more in GW2, but those fans that say WvW is designed to not allow it are clearly not seeing what is in front of them completely.
I am thinking that instead of just one person getting ganked by a few people, just a small group will get ganked my a larger one. That is how battle works, and is the entire premise of tactical warfare.
BTW: I am building on what you have been saying, as it seems we are almost on the exact same page. :P
i get you.
i disagree that the opposite of "seamless" is "instanced." i think the opposite of "seamless" is "having seams" and that is what it is, no more and no less.
personally, i use the more common definition for "instance" that we've used for years in MMOs where an area makes copies of itself to accomodate new players/groups of players.
like here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instance_dungeon
or here: http://mmoterms.com/mmorpg-terms-i
you're free to make up your own definition and argue them obviously, but that can lead to problems when games like Tera online suddenly don't have open world pvp anymore because its all instanced.
more power to you though, by your definition GW2 obviously lacks open world pvp. as does Tera and Ultima Online (in most of its forms today)! kind of a strange way to go about arguing a point, redefining a term that we've all used for over a decade just to say a game doesn't have something that it would if you hadn't played such a strange rhetorical trick.
its strange to me too that GW2 technically has open world pvp by many standards. considering it obviously doesn't seem to by most subjective and less well defined standards. but that is what it is and i wouldn't really go bending over backwards to fight it. rather i would say "neat" and move along.
different games are different games sometimes.
I don't think anybody ever said they wont be ganking because ganking is not really the problem when it comes to Open world PvP. The main problems with World world PvP has been fixed by WvW's implimentation. WvW removes griefing lowbies and to a lesser degree PvErs.
While there is a level difference, if getting attack is an issue you are pretty much go level in a safe zone (PvE) until you are ready to do WvW, if you hate getting attack by high level characters.
The other problem if you are in WvW, you pretty much are expected to PvP. And so there are sometimes when you want a break from PvP to do some PvE stuff for money, the separation of WvW and PvE allows someone to take a break from PvP.
Not saying WvW is perfect or even close cuz its not and imo it kinda blows sometimes, but it sucks far less than having world PvP.