First of all, do you really need to resort to name calling and getting personal to prove your point? Lets try to keep this mature shall we?
Now, on to the matter at hand:
First of all i never said ATI was the best i said ATI is the best for me there is a difference and being in the hardware busines for long time?? wtf i dont have to be in there for a long time to know what i like and what i dont like so dont give me any stupid shit like that.
I said "hardware buying business" and I used it as a figure of speech, I didn't actually mean you were part of a business that bought and sold computer hardware, I meant just being someone who bought parts and upgraded or built their own computers. And from what I can tell by your response is that apparently overall quality isn't important to you, which is what I was referring to. For the longest time, Nvidia had FAR better quality and owned the market. Their FX line was NOT up to par, ATI's 9800 line was, and that gave ATI the lead in the industry.
GF 6800 is more expensive than the X800XT and has the same performance as it if not less the X800 XT. In the future outperforming the X800s? who told u that?can u tell the future now? I dont get it how stupid can u be to believe that if NVIDIA comes out with some crazy video card that ATI wont come out with crazier Card, And maybe the 6800 supports full 9.0c and the ATI is partialy on that it doesnt matter cause after few months another graphics card is gonna come out. You can never say the 6800s will outperform the x800s cause u never know what kind of stuff they gonna come out with next thing i know there gonna come out with a water cooling Video card thats gonna be the twice the speed. U NEVER KNOW. you can never stay with the next generation cards cause they too expensiver first of all and a newer is gonna come out in few months after that.
Maybe you should re-read our posts, we're not compating the 6800 LINE with the x800 LINE, we're comparing the 6800 Ultra with the x800 XT, one card vs. one card. And yes, we can tell what the future holds between those 2 cards because almost every single review ever written comparing the 2 cards contains something along these lines:
The recent introduction of the GeForce 6800 Ultra and Radeon X800 XT has sparked a lot of debate about the relative merits of different graphics cards. NVidia chose to offers full support for Pixel and Vertex Shader model 3.0 and other features in DirectX 9.0c, while ATI avoided such new technologies for now, instead focusing on raw performance.
Which translates roughly to the x800 XT being marginally faster now, Nvidia has prepared for the future but FULLY supporting Directx 9.0c and Pixel/Vertex Shader 3.0, which the x800 XT doesn't, so yes, in the future as games come out which use these features, the 6800 Ultra will be better.
You just keep bringing up the x800 XT PE like it's going to be god or something. Let me explain the PE version for you. The x800 has 16 Pixel Pipelines, in the XT version 4 of them are deactivated, leaving only 12 functioning. With the PE version, you guessed it, they didn't deactivate those 4 pipelines, so it'll be running at a full 16 pipelines, which is what the 6800 Ultra runs at... And why do you keep trying to compare the x800 XT PE to the 6800 Ultra anyway? If you're going to compare it to anything, compare it to the 6850 Ultra coming out about the same time, thats a fair comparrison, seeing as they're both just overclocked versions of the cards currently on the market.
Even if u have researched u can never say anythign as a fact unless its already out so next time u make a prediction watch out what kind ur making cause ur research might show how poor of a job uve done.
Yes, I have researched, apparently you havn't. The more you talk the more you just come off sounding more and more like an ATI fanboi. We've done our research, maybe you should go do some of your own. Nowhere did I ever say ATI sucked or wasn't a good card, they're very good cards, but for my money the 6800U is better, and as more games come out supporting pixel/vertex shader 3.0 and DX9.0c then the 6800U will just be that much better of an investment.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
This argument will go on on on on on. So i just want to tell u this if ur saying that the 6850 will be better than the x800 xt pe ur right but just realize it wont be for long since ATI doesnt like to stay behind in anything so i think after a month since ur 6850 has come out im sure ATI will blast another VIdeo Card better than it thats how competition is. NO new cards no market. We the stupid kids buying their cards keep them in business, we are the stupid kids who waste 600 dollars on a video card where a month after it comes out a newer one thats how it works. If u didnt realize that than u must be blind. So comparing both of them is kind of stupid even though i love to argue about things that i know im right about.
Originally no one was comparing whats coming out down the road, we were comparing the options we have now, the x800 XT and the 6800 Ultra. A couple of us are currently building new high end systems and are contemplating which of the 2 cards to go with. We're not talking about the cards down the road, at least we weren't until you brought up the PE. Yes, I realize it's a never ending cycle, anytime someone brings out a card the other team is going to bring one out a step better. No one is debating that. But it's hard to build a new system constantly looking at whats coming out in the future, so you look at whats available NOW, or what is available when you build your system.
For me the 6800 Ultra is the card I'll be going with because it seems like that will be the best investment over time. Yes, it costs more now, but it also supports technology which isn't used by games yet, so it'll still be quite viable down the road when the games catch up to that technology. The x800 XT however does not, which at this point in time is NOT a problem, but down the road it might be. It might not be, but I'm willing to pay that extra money for a card that's optimized for slightly further into the future.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Originally posted by Kunou Originally no one was comparing whats coming out down the road, we were comparing the options we have now, the x800 XT Pro and the 6800 Ultra. A couple of us are currently building new high end systems and are contemplating which of the 2 cards to go with. We're not talking about the cards down the road, at least we weren't until you brought up the PE. Yes, I realize it's a never ending cycle, anytime someone brings out a card the other team is going to bring one out a step better. No one is debating that. But it's hard to build a new system constantly looking at whats coming out in the future, so you look at whats available NOW, or what is available when you build your system. For me the 6800 ultra is the card I'll be going with because it seems like that will be the best investment over time. Yes, it costs more now, but it also supports technology which isn't used by games yet, so it'll still be quite viable down the road when the games catch up to that technology. The x800 however does not, which at this point in time is NOT a problem, but down the road it might be. It might not be, but I'm willing to pay that extra money for a card that's optimized for slightly further into the future.
Ok all im seying is that i rather get the X800 XT P.E cause no games really needs the 9.0c and even if they do in the future im sure ATI will be out with a card that full supports taht so i have nothing to worry about.
Let's not resort to name calling and especially here on this thread. Murt started this baby back in July 2003 and with over 1876 posts and over 10,500 views, I would be ticked off at the person that got this thread locked. Let's agree to intelligently disagree and keep this thread alive till the cock roach takes over the world.
kptone does make some good points, in that, ATI and nVidia are at point now that one or the other is constantly trying to one up the other. That, and as kptone points out, we spend the $$$ for the cards. I've said before, it would be nice for a third party gpu manufacturer to come out of the wood works and build a competitive vid card to ATI's and nVidia's chip sets so it might drive prices down.
ATI's current card line's texture filtering is called into question though, but this might change in the near future. I give ATI credit, they get a lot out of their cards with their drivers. Here is the article on texture filtering:
I'll be gone for a couple of days. Moving to a new place across town because I'm selling the house. Have to give up my cable modem, but I get a high speed DSL line; so it's not so bad.
"The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action." Hartley's 1st Law
Ok all im seying is that i rather get the X800 XT P.E cause no games really needs the 9.0c and even if they do in the future im sure ATI will be out with a card that full supports that so i have nothing to worry about.
But yer still not getting my point. I'm not argueing that ATI will put out a card in the future that will support it, I know they will, I'm saying I'd rather spend the extra $100 or so now and get the card that DOES support it so that 6-12 months down the road I'm not having to spend anopther $400-500 on a new card that DOES support it.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Yes if u want u could do that but for me i know in 6 to 12 months Nvidia will have a new card out and ATI will have theirs and will support all that. So its basicaly personal choice.
The 6800 is a great card go for it, but i think im gonna go for the X800 XT.
"A discovery over at UCI will lead to Processors capable of 1,000 Ghz (1 terahertz) thanks to newly developped transistors made from single-walled carbon tubes only a few nanometers wide."
"Since the invention of nanotube transistors, there have been theoretical predictions that they can operate very fast," says Burke, a professor of electrical engineering and computer science. "Our work is the first to show that single-walled nanotube transistor devices can indeed function at very high speeds."
"Burke and his colleagues varied the voltage on an electrical circuit made from a carbon nanotube sandwiched between two gold electrodes. They discovered that the circuit operated at a frequency of 2.6 gigahertz (GHz), which means electrical current could be switched on and off in about one billionth of a second."
yum,YUM,Gimme SOME!
They stated that production could begin as early as 2 years.
If I was the guy producing this i would be afraid for my life, you know Intel's hitmen are looking for him.
wow, thats amazing! just imagine what could be done with that technoligy, not just with cpu's or other computer components but all electrical goods throughout the world. That guy is going to be very very rich.
Personal opinion, it all depends who you like ATi or NVIDIA. They are both great companies, plus that doesnt matter nobody can compare to the ATI image quality as far as performance their X800 XT p.e beats the 6800 in basicaly every test they do but by little. And where the 6800 has kind of high requirements like 480 watt power supply 2 12w connectors etc.
Thanks to its performance advantage when using anisotropic filtering, the Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition shows its rivals who's boss in this discipline without noticeably sacrificing image quality. Even the much less expensive X800 Pro with its 12 pipes can beat the GeForce 6800 Ultra in some game tests. The price difference of about $100 will certainly be an argument that could win over a number of undecided buyers. When quality-enhancing features like FSAA and anisotropic filtering aren't enabled, however, it is often the GeForce 6800 Ultra that takes first place. Thanks to Temporal AA, though, ATi has a good solution even to this "problem". At any rate, most gamers would be loath to do without anisotropic filtering when using cards of this caliber anyway. But keep in mind that neither of the cards can be termed "slow". We´re talking about differences at very high levels!
In our opinion, the most impressive thing about this card is how little effort ATi needed to reach the performance we saw here. The power consumption of the X800 XT is about the same as that of its predecessors in 3D applications. Additionally, the cards require only one auxiliary power connector and don't need an especially potent power supply like the GeForce 6800 Ultra does. Even the cooler has shrunk a bit, reducing the card's overall weight and ensuring that it would fit even into a mini-ITX case.
Personal opinion, it all depends who you like ATi or NVIDIA. They are both great companies, plus that doesnt matter nobody can compare to the ATI image quality as far as performance their X800 XT p.e beats the 6800 in basicaly every test they do but by little. And where the 6800 has kind of high requirements like 480 watt power supply 2 12w connectors etc.
How many times do I have to point this out to you, you keep comparing the x800 XT PE to the 6800 Ultra and thats not the right comparrison. The x800 XT and the 6800 Ultra are the two comparable cards, if you want to bring ATI's ***NEXT*** card into the equation then compare it to Nvidia's ***NEXT*** card, the 6850, not the 6800. Of course if you compare ATI's ***NEXT*** card to Nvidia's ***CURRENT*** card then the ATI is going to come out marginally better. By your logic you might as well be comparing the x800 XT to the 5950 Ultra. We've all established that you're a HUGE ATI fan and no one is going to change your mind about that, nor do any of us, or at least myself, care to. But at least get your facts straight and compare the correct cards.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Ok sure but competition grows and new cards come out so its kind of hard to compare the next of NVIDIA when i cant even find facts about it. SO might as well compare those too, and for ur info i pasted facts on upper paragraph.
Yeah, but that wasn't there when I made my post, I had to go chase a kid in the middle of it, so took me a couple minutes to get the post submitted, by that time both of you had posted a couple times.
And I agree with GB, nice edit job adding the link then trying to lie about it.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
OK wtf is wrong with do u even know anything about Video Cards that ur posting stuff here?? And ruining the reputation? wtf i dont care im stating my opinion and backed it all up with facts which uve probly read i want to see u do that same thing, than start talking jeburish.
Yes, we weren't accusing you of making the stuff up, we knew you got it from somewhere, my point was how you edited the link into the post then tried to act like it was there the whole time, even to the point of insulting GB.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Comments
First of all, do you really need to resort to name calling and getting personal to prove your point? Lets try to keep this mature shall we?
Now, on to the matter at hand:
I said "hardware buying business" and I used it as a figure of speech, I didn't actually mean you were part of a business that bought and sold computer hardware, I meant just being someone who bought parts and upgraded or built their own computers. And from what I can tell by your response is that apparently overall quality isn't important to you, which is what I was referring to. For the longest time, Nvidia had FAR better quality and owned the market. Their FX line was NOT up to par, ATI's 9800 line was, and that gave ATI the lead in the industry.
Maybe you should re-read our posts, we're not compating the 6800 LINE with the x800 LINE, we're comparing the 6800 Ultra with the x800 XT, one card vs. one card. And yes, we can tell what the future holds between those 2 cards because almost every single review ever written comparing the 2 cards contains something along these lines:
Which translates roughly to the x800 XT being marginally faster now, Nvidia has prepared for the future but FULLY supporting Directx 9.0c and Pixel/Vertex Shader 3.0, which the x800 XT doesn't, so yes, in the future as games come out which use these features, the 6800 Ultra will be better.
You just keep bringing up the x800 XT PE like it's going to be god or something. Let me explain the PE version for you. The x800 has 16 Pixel Pipelines, in the XT version 4 of them are deactivated, leaving only 12 functioning. With the PE version, you guessed it, they didn't deactivate those 4 pipelines, so it'll be running at a full 16 pipelines, which is what the 6800 Ultra runs at... And why do you keep trying to compare the x800 XT PE to the 6800 Ultra anyway? If you're going to compare it to anything, compare it to the 6850 Ultra coming out about the same time, thats a fair comparrison, seeing as they're both just overclocked versions of the cards currently on the market.
Yes, I have researched, apparently you havn't. The more you talk the more you just come off sounding more and more like an ATI fanboi. We've done our research, maybe you should go do some of your own. Nowhere did I ever say ATI sucked or wasn't a good card, they're very good cards, but for my money the 6800U is better, and as more games come out supporting pixel/vertex shader 3.0 and DX9.0c then the 6800U will just be that much better of an investment.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Originally no one was comparing whats coming out down the road, we were comparing the options we have now, the x800 XT and the 6800 Ultra. A couple of us are currently building new high end systems and are contemplating which of the 2 cards to go with. We're not talking about the cards down the road, at least we weren't until you brought up the PE. Yes, I realize it's a never ending cycle, anytime someone brings out a card the other team is going to bring one out a step better. No one is debating that. But it's hard to build a new system constantly looking at whats coming out in the future, so you look at whats available NOW, or what is available when you build your system.
For me the 6800 Ultra is the card I'll be going with because it seems like that will be the best investment over time. Yes, it costs more now, but it also supports technology which isn't used by games yet, so it'll still be quite viable down the road when the games catch up to that technology. The x800 XT however does not, which at this point in time is NOT a problem, but down the road it might be. It might not be, but I'm willing to pay that extra money for a card that's optimized for slightly further into the future.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Wow, with more than 1,000 posts and more than 10,000 views, I will begin reading this thread.
To the end of this thread or bust!
サ ー ス ベ ン
Ok all im seying is that i rather get the X800 XT P.E cause no games really needs the 9.0c and even if they do in the future im sure ATI will be out with a card that full supports taht so i have nothing to worry about.
Let's not resort to name calling and especially here on this thread. Murt started this baby back in July 2003 and with over 1876 posts and over 10,500 views, I would be ticked off
at the person that got this thread locked. Let's agree to intelligently disagree
and keep this thread alive till the cock roach takes over the world.
kptone does make some good points, in that, ATI and nVidia are at point now that one or the other is constantly trying to one up the other. That, and as kptone points out, we spend the $$$ for the cards. I've said before, it would be nice for a third party gpu manufacturer to come out of the wood works and build a competitive vid card to ATI's and nVidia's chip sets so it might drive prices down.
ATI's current card line's texture filtering is called into question though, but this might change in the near future. I give ATI credit, they get a lot out of their cards with their drivers. Here is the article on texture filtering:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040603/index.html
I'll be gone for a couple of days. Moving to a new place across town because I'm selling the house. Have to give up my cable modem, but I get a high speed DSL line; so it's not so bad.
"The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action." Hartley's 1st Law
But yer still not getting my point. I'm not argueing that ATI will put out a card in the future that will support it, I know they will, I'm saying I'd rather spend the extra $100 or so now and get the card that DOES support it so that 6-12 months down the road I'm not having to spend anopther $400-500 on a new card that DOES support it.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Yes if u want u could do that but for me i know in 6 to 12 months Nvidia will have a new card out and ATI will have theirs and will support all that. So its basicaly personal choice.
The 6800 is a great card go for it, but i think im gonna go for the X800 XT.
"A discovery over at UCI will lead to Processors capable of 1,000 Ghz (1 terahertz) thanks to newly developped transistors made from single-walled carbon tubes only a few nanometers wide."
"Since the invention of nanotube transistors, there have been theoretical predictions that they can operate very fast," says Burke, a professor of electrical engineering and computer science. "Our work is the first to show that single-walled nanotube transistor devices can indeed function at very high speeds."
"Burke and his colleagues varied the voltage on an electrical circuit made from a carbon nanotube sandwiched between two gold electrodes. They discovered that the circuit operated at a frequency of 2.6 gigahertz (GHz), which means electrical current could be switched on and off in about one billionth of a second."
yum,YUM,Gimme SOME!
They stated that production could begin as early as 2 years.
If I was the guy producing this i would be afraid for my life, you know Intel's hitmen are looking for him.
http://science.newsfactor.com Theres a ling on this page.
AHH! Run away from the monster! He's going to eat us!
Socializer 80% Explorer 73% Achiever 33% Killer 13%
Killer 100% Socializer 40% Explorer 33% Achiever 27%
wow, thats amazing! just imagine what could be done with that technoligy, not just with cpu's or other computer components but all electrical goods throughout the world. That guy is going to be very very rich.
(lets hope AMD scoop him up first
)
2 words for you...quantum computing.
The possibility to have an infinite amount of speed/storage, without the need to ever upgrade hardware again. We'll see it in our lifetime.
AHH! Run away from the monster! He's going to eat us!
Socializer 80% Explorer 73% Achiever 33% Killer 13%
Killer 100% Socializer 40% Explorer 33% Achiever 27%
In our opinion, the most impressive thing about this card is how little effort ATi needed to reach the performance we saw here. The power consumption of the X800 XT is about the same as that of its predecessors in 3D applications. Additionally, the cards require only one auxiliary power connector and don't need an especially potent power supply like the GeForce 6800 Ultra does. Even the cooler has shrunk a bit, reducing the card's overall weight and ensuring that it would fit even into a mini-ITX case.
THose are all facts now go cry.
Those are facts from tomshardware.com
Didnt i post the website on the bottom of my paragraph i think I DID.
You wanted facts tehre i just got u facts and pasted them so ur head could understand.
How many times do I have to point this out to you, you keep comparing the x800 XT PE to the 6800 Ultra and thats not the right comparrison. The x800 XT and the 6800 Ultra are the two comparable cards, if you want to bring ATI's ***NEXT*** card into the equation then compare it to Nvidia's ***NEXT*** card, the 6850, not the 6800. Of course if you compare ATI's ***NEXT*** card to Nvidia's ***CURRENT*** card then the ATI is going to come out marginally better. By your logic you might as well be comparing the x800 XT to the 5950 Ultra. We've all established that you're a HUGE ATI fan and no one is going to change your mind about that, nor do any of us, or at least myself, care to. But at least get your facts straight and compare the correct cards.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Yeah, but that wasn't there when I made my post, I had to go chase a kid in the middle of it, so took me a couple minutes to get the post submitted, by that time both of you had posted a couple times.
And I agree with GB, nice edit job adding the link then trying to lie about it.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
Dude i even said that i COPY and PASTED From tomshardware.
I didnt feel like summaryzing that and writing it so i just pasted it and i even said it and wtF is wrong with that.
you wanted facts, so i gave u hardcore facts
Now chill out.
OK wtf is wrong with do u even know anything about Video Cards that ur posting stuff here??
And ruining the reputation?
wtf i dont care im stating my opinion and backed it all up with facts which uve probly read i want to see u do that same thing, than start talking jeburish.
Yes, we weren't accusing you of making the stuff up, we knew you got it from somewhere, my point was how you edited the link into the post then tried to act like it was there the whole time, even to the point of insulting GB.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
k watever u say but.
K this link shows comparison of the 6800, and the X800s and read the whole pages and than look at the final words and see whos right.
heres a link: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044&p=2
Read every page and than go to the Final words.
It shows great comparison and it states that ATI wins still.
and hold on it doesnt show the 6850 numbers but it STATES that its just a 6800 OC
I wonder what would happen if we OC the X800XT??? HMmm. u loose again buddy.
I really dont want to fight about it. U stick with NViDIA u stick with ATI.
But with test results on the bottom.....