There are people in the world that love the idea of getting items and getting items. And then there are people in the world that love playing a game, discovering stories, and adventuring.
GW2 is for the latter. The other 99% of MMORPGs are for the previous. Everyone wins.
REading threads like this make me feel old. There's a whole list of gamers out there who clame to like mMORPGs but probably don't have the endurance to play a classic RPG.
DEs - Run around with a bunch of people picking apples, chopping trees and zerging monsters. No stratagey needed. No communication needed. If you die run back until the event ends. Very low stress no prepartion time needed. Jump in when ever you want.
PvP - Click a button jump in a battle. Gear is normalized. No need to gear up. Learn the rules, then zerg towers, zerg keeps, zerg supply lines? Heavy emphasis on groups. Not much 1v1.
Progression - Max level gear is all weighted the same. One person my have a different stat allocation, but the power level is the same. No tiers, no power advancement. A person playing for 5 months is the same as someone who has played 1 month, other than cosmetics.
I think this is perfect for a couple of my friends who work long hours. I'll probably tell them to buy a copy so we can jump in on the weekend and get a few hours of pvp in. If I'm correct they should be at no disadvantage compared to those who spend 40 hours a week in game, right?
Not exactly. What it sounds like you're describing in (1) are renown heart "quests", which are relatively simple tasks designed to keep cycling so anyone passing through can take part. Think of your generic WoW quest... instead of the world happening you have a dude with a "!" over his head, talk to him, get a task, do the task, turn it in, move on. Heart quests are vaguely similar... enter an area, see what needs to be done to help the local NPC, choose how to help, join others in helping, get rewarded when complete. NPC now becomes a karma vendor as well, so you have access to stuff you wouldn't have otherwise.
PvP - varies. It sounds like you're thinking world vs world PvP... the 5v5 is a whole different story. But onto WvW... zergs initially may work well, but I've learned that an organized defense can fend of a zerg nearly ten times it's size or more at a structure. Using the seige defenses at a tower, castle, keep, etc. can devastate a disorganized zerg quite beautifully. One defense I was in I manned the burning oil pot in time to take out two flame battering rams simultaneously. The zerg never destroyed the oil pot due to lack of organization and they fell apart when their seige equipment went up in flames. I felt macho.
Progression - close to as you describe it, yes. The big difference will be in knowing your builds, knowing your skills and when to use them. Someone without experience may try to use skills on cooldown and will fail heavily compared to those that choose the right skill when it's needed instead of choose any skill when it's available.
Still, though, you're right on the last point... it is a great game for people that don't have a lot of time as well as for those that do. As they say, it's an easy game to play yet a difficult one to master. It's your story, your pace, have fun with it.
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
DEs - Run around with a bunch of people picking apples, chopping trees and zerging monsters. No stratagey needed. No communication needed. If you die run back until the event ends. Very low stress no prepartion time needed. Jump in when ever you want.
PvP - Click a button jump in a battle. Gear is normalized. No need to gear up. Learn the rules, then zerg towers, zerg keeps, zerg supply lines? Heavy emphasis on groups. Not much 1v1.
Progression - Max level gear is all weighted the same. One person my have a different stat allocation, but the power level is the same. No tiers, no power advancement. A person playing for 5 months is the same as someone who has played 1 month, other than cosmetics.
I think this is perfect for a couple of my friends who work long hours. I'll probably tell them to buy a copy so we can jump in on the weekend and get a few hours of pvp in. If I'm correct they should be at no disadvantage compared to those who spend 40 hours a week in game, right?
Dynamic events still beat questing quite considerably (quests being the core gameplay mechanic that dynamic events essentially replace, at least mostly.)
Note: quests do not require preparation, teamwork or communication, even if you have grouped up for them (generally speaking.)
If you look at the core of dynamic events and what they actually bring to the table, it’s very easy to see that they are vastly superior to standard quests in a number of ways; they solve certain problems and bring people together, making the game much more of an MMO than most (if not all) of its competitors, at least in regards to the levelling portion of the game.
Adding to that, how do you know that there are not dynamic events that require true teamwork to the extent that raids in other MMORPGs do? Have you seen and experienced all of them for yourself? And if so, how do you know that they will not be added to the game at a later date? The groundwork is all laid out; there’s no reason at all that this could not be a possibility.
What’s wrong with that? Being able to experience the game for what it truly is without having to grind is a good thing; it’s not a negative at all. Also not being at a forced disadvantage just because someone has spent more time playing that you and or had more luck than you is also a very good thing; someone should only be better than you if they are just that; better than you. Normalised gear will allow the more skilled players to stand out from the crowd; nobody will be carried by their gear.
Exactly, how awesome is that? Well, for me at least. As a pvper I don't want someone to best me just because they have more spare time; if that extra spare time does not translate into a greater degree of skill and in game knowledge, then why should they have a free win handed to them?
I can see why some people do not like this aspect of the game; the gear treadmill is what a vast majority of MMORPGs revolve around these days, but it doesn't have to be like that. What about playing for months and even years on end just to have fun? There are still going to be plenty of nuggets to help distinguish yourself from newer players; you can still get that sense of achievement and advancement, that same feeling of progression.
Pretty much, unless the people who have played for longer are just better at the game in general.
But yeah you are right; Guild Wars 2 is going to be an exceptional game for casual players, but that does not necessarily mean that hardcore gamers shouldn’t play it as well.
Do you really need more powerful gear to make the game meaningful to you?
There will still undoubtedly be challenging pve content that requires preparation, teamwork and communication, skill etc. As for pvp content, well it’s all about those things already, just to a larger degree than other MMORPGs as you cannot be carried to victory by your gear.
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
what's good pvp for "hard core pvpers" in your opinion? you logic makes no sense at all
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
because Lineage 2 godess of destruction lasted for how many years before it went free to play and its pvp was open world pvp
but i guess for the majority of people who gripe about pvp.its not point in arguing with them,there probably the same tards i saw who i rolled for hours in previous mmos cuz they were to dumb after the 10th time i killed them to go find another zone to farm or level in
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
what's good pvp for "hard core pvpers" in your opinion? you logic makes no sense at all
TERA is doing well with it's open world PvP, actually. Guild vs. Guild is flat-out fun as hell, and one of the better PvP options I've seen in games. Ironic that a game named Guild Wars 2 doesn't even have this option.
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
because Lineage 2 godess of destruction lasted for how many years before it went free to play and its pvp was open world pvp
but they did implement other forms of PVP and when this game was released not much else was out for PVPers, i'd hardly call lineage 2 the holy grail of pvp games though.. oh forgot to mention half naked elf girls and by far the worst community of players I have ever played with but yea was awsome stuff hardly consider lineage 2 players the majority of PVPers though.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
what's good pvp for "hard core pvpers" in your opinion? you logic makes no sense at all
There are hardcore PVPers who prefer open world PVP, and those who prefer the more arena style battles you find in BG's. There's more than one type of hardcore player.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A game can be casual friendly and appeal to the hardcore market. Hardcore people just want recognition for their dedication. The conflict between the two groups is when you give the more time dedicated players, who already have more experience with the game, much more power than the people without as much time. This isolates casual and hardcore players and makes them despise being with eachother. It makes casual players seem like liabilities to have around and makes those casual players feel like liabilities, which sort of goes against what ArenaNet is going for from what I can tell.
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
what's good pvp for "hard core pvpers" in your opinion? you logic makes no sense at all
TERA is doing well with it's open world PvP, actually. Guild vs. Guild is flat-out fun as hell, and one of the better PvP options I've seen in games. Ironic that a game named Guild Wars 2 doesn't even have this option.
GvG is fun which I'd be suprised if it's not something they add onto the game.. open world I can do without though to many times it ends up a gankfest.. Rift's was a joke.. AoC a joke.. lineage 2 I didn't care for I really can't remember a fun open world combat centered game.. I didn't care for it much in TERA so I re-rolled on a PVE server
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
"and by far the worst community of players I have ever played with "
yeah,private servers seemed to have a pretty terrible community.i would still rank world of warcraft as the top in terms of mmos that ive played that have had the worst communitys
swtor would probably rank 2nd on the list.considering how many wow players are playing it
and i dont know about calling it the holy grail of pvp.but with the mmos ive played,i still rank Lineage 2 as one of the best pvp mmos ive played
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
Yes, the very small population of gamers that is the "hard core " pvpers will not enjoy this game. I have rarely if ever gone on a gaming website and seen a larger portion of PVP servers than PVEs. Sadly, this is because it is a niche.
Folk like u will never realize that Anet is concerentrating on the actual RPG part of MMORPG. I know, go figure. Whereas most games litter their game with eveyrthing under the son, they neglect to remember that RPGs aren't about factions killing one another. It's about a group of good guys going out to kill a group of bad guysand possibly save the world. Thats every RPG, console, computer, tabletop, Live action, that i've played.
So, I'm for one happy to see a studio get that. And, you can keep your pvp players, your gear grinders. Real RPG game players outnumber that lot 10 to 1.
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
what's good pvp for "hard core pvpers" in your opinion? you logic makes no sense at all
TERA is doing well with it's open world PvP, actually. Guild vs. Guild is flat-out fun as hell, and one of the better PvP options I've seen in games. Ironic that a game named Guild Wars 2 doesn't even have this option.
WvWvW pvp is so damn addicting, it will last as long as Counterstrike did for me back in the day. Might not be for everyone though.
"Folk like u will never realize that Anet is concerentrating on the actual RPG part of MMORPG."
yeah,swtor also tried that
people wernt pleased
because swtor copied games of the past and copied them poorly.. try again
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
"Folk like u will never realize that Anet is concerentrating on the actual RPG part of MMORPG."
yeah,swtor also tried that
people wernt pleased
because swtor copied games of the past and copied them poorly.. try again
ive yet to see a legit source that clearly states they did.just the same bunch you see in every mmo that calls them wow clones.even if they dont look a thing like wow
"Folk like u will never realize that Anet is concerentrating on the actual RPG part of MMORPG."
yeah,swtor also tried that
people wernt pleased
because swtor copied games of the past and copied them poorly.. try again
ive yet to see a legit source that clearly states they did.just the same bunch you see in every mmo that calls them wow clones.even if they dont look a thing like wow
ill see if I can find you the dev video but he clearly states you would be crazy not ot follow the "wow model" if anyone has it please post.. either way it's blatently obvious they took such a great IP like star wars added on an on rails story, cookie cutter trinity class/combat system with raiding and battlegrounds for endgame... such a shame for what a great game that IP could produce..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
well,im sure alot of mmos have followed the wow model.it doesnt make them bad
like ive said before.its generally just the same old beating a dead horse with a whip argument you see in every mmo.people come in,and even though the game doesnt look a thing like wow,they automatically start beating the drums and calling it a wow clone
ive even seen it done with guild wars 2.they already started calling it wow with dodge
DEs - Run around with a bunch of people picking apples, chopping trees and zerging monsters. No stratagey needed. No communication needed. If you die run back until the event ends. Very low stress no prepartion time needed. Jump in when ever you want.
PvP - Click a button jump in a battle. Gear is normalized. No need to gear up. Learn the rules, then zerg towers, zerg keeps, zerg supply lines? Heavy emphasis on groups. Not much 1v1.
Progression - Max level gear is all weighted the same. One person my have a different stat allocation, but the power level is the same. No tiers, no power advancement. A person playing for 5 months is the same as someone who has played 1 month, other than cosmetics.
I think this is perfect for a couple of my friends who work long hours. I'll probably tell them to buy a copy so we can jump in on the weekend and get a few hours of pvp in. If I'm correct they should be at no disadvantage compared to those who spend 40 hours a week in game, right?
1) DEs -- I think you may be confusing renown hearts with dynamic events (go look up renown hearts). The beginning dynamic events aren't really difficult and don't really require strategy. However, I've noticed towards the end of the starter zone and into the 15-25 zone, DEs started to require strategy. It also depends on the DE. There will always be some DEs that require no strategy involved. Then there will be some that require everyone to work together. It's that whole thing about having a variety of content to suit everyone. This also has to do with the gradual introduction of new mechanics to the players. As players advance into the game, they'll become more skilled with combat, and they'll have more skills available to them.
If I only have an hour to play, why do I want to do content that's going to eat up most of that hour? So I'll do some of the DE that take no more than 5-10 minutes to complete, while doing some of the renown hearts. Then when I get on later and have a few hours to play, I'll do some of the harder stuff.
Yes, you can jump into any DE in the middle of it. Again, they do this for fun and accessibility.
I should mention, your point? With regular questing, you do exactly the same. If you die, just run back and pick up where you left off. Anet does have a penalty for death, but it's a lenient penalty.
2) PvP -- In structured PvP, gear is standardized between everyone. In WvW, you jump in with the same gear you have in PvE. Yes you can zerg, but you can zerg in every other game too. That doesn't make it an effective tactic. Teamwork, cooperation, and skillful play will always win against the zerg.
With WvW, you will want to have a group focusing on cutting supply lines, then a team focusing on defending, then a team focusing on taking a tower or 2. Then your server should have people on the 3 other maps doing the same thing. The server I was on didn't zerg that much, and in the first matchup in WvW we completely dominated. Then the second match-up, the red team proved to be a challenge because they weren't on the same time zone. However, every zerg eventually failed against us as we stationed everyone just right to defend out keeps. We ended up nearly controlling 2 maps, while holding the central keep in the eternal battleground (central map), and slowly taking over some other keeps.
Zergs will ultimately fail. The reason you mainly saw zergs in the BWE is because no one knows how to play yet! Everyone's still learning the systems, and there just was not enough money in the economy to be able to always afford siege equipment. Nobody really had enough time to devise and test strategies.
In structured PvP, I think it's been made obvious that skillful play, teamwork, and not zerging will win every time against a team that constantly zergs and just does not work together.
Finally, the game is not focused on 1v1. It never has been. Anet even stated their making a game focused on teamwork and cooperation, much like GW1. There's a reason why dueling is not an option in GW2, as it goes against their philosophy of teamwork.
Also, Anet made it blatantly obvious that it's possible to 3v1 and still win if you know how to play.
3) Progression -- Not necessarily. The person playing 5 months should be more knowledgable and more skillful than the person playing only 1 month. Again, skill and teamwork are the determining factor in GW2. If you suck at playing the game, you do not have the uber hat of death to hide behind. If the person playing 5 months never bothered to learn how to effectively play their profession, then by all means the person playing 1 month should still be able to beat the person playing 5 months.
I, personally, have always hated gear progression in other games. Why should person x be more powerful than me just because he can play 15 hours a day? He should be more skilled than me, and be able to destroy me because he's more knowledgable aobut the game. However, he should not be able to beat me because he has that uber hat of death whereas I'm still 500 points away from getting the semi-uber hate of death.
As has been stated before in this thread, casual and hardcore are merely mindsets. You can run dungeons religiously if you want, or attempt to take keeps every hour of every day if you want. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, would be considered hardcore.
Or, you can run a dungeon maybe every so often, hang out in the cities, explore a bit, do some PvP, etc. which would fit the casual mindset.
However, casual vs hardcore has no influence on difficulty. Casual players may have a harder time than hardcore players, but that's only because hardcore players put more time and effort into the game.
So this lead me to this: The only distinction between casual players and hardcore players is the timel. A casual player may only put in an hour or so a day, whereas a hardcore may put in maybe 5 or so hours a day in pursuit of some end goal. Again, it all comes down to ~time~.
Yes a game can be more casual friendy making it take less time to get something (note, that does not imply less challenging), however they can also be hardcore friendly.
Finally, GW2 is challenging. It's not easy, but it's not so difficult that you would throw your computer out the window whlie pulling hair out of your head. It's just challenging.
well,im sure alot of mmos have followed the wow model.it doesnt make them bad
like ive said before.its generally just the same old beating a dead horse with a whip argument you see in every mmo.people come in,and even though the game doesnt look a thing like wow,they automatically start beating the drums and calling it a wow clone
ive even seen it done with guild wars 2.they already started calling it wow with dodge
There will always be people who do that. Unfortunately, there are some people who see WoW as the first MMO ever, and every other game is just copying things from WoW.
What you need to look at instead is how the systems used in the game are implemented. Are the implemented in such a way that makes them original to the game, or are the just purely copy and paste. People say SWToR is a WoW clone because combat is similar, PvP is similar, and the fact that once you're max level you just start raid progression.
"Finally, GW2 is challenging. It's not easy, but it's not so difficult that you would throw your computer out the window whlie pulling hair out of your head. It's just challenging."
thats nice.but it all depends on how arenanet handles feedback
a bunch of casuals would come with there sobbing tears on forums and arenanet could dumb down the game so even a retard could do it.i mean me personally,i dont mind a little challenge in a mmo,but what pisses me off more then hard content is content getting nerfed because people choose the route to complain and pull the life card then actually try to get better first
Just about every "major" MMO after WoW in 2004 has been a variation of the exact same thing -
WoW +/- gimmick -
WAR - WoW +/- RvR
AoC - WoW +/- adult content
Rift - WoW +/- public groups
TOR - WoW +/- story
TERA - WoW +/- aiming/dodge
TSW - WoW +/- skill deck leveling
GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently, not just the one gimmick thing they do differently while everything else is the same:
-no trinity
-active combat
-dynamic events and hearts (kind of like combination of PQ's in WAR and Rifts in Rift combined, but better designed)
-underwater combat
-WvWvW (like RvR ala WAR/DAOC)
-conquest mode PvP (no gear, no stat difference, just player skill + builds)
-story (like TOR with personal, instanced story)
-less focus on gear/progression (level down scaling, no gear treadmill)
etc. etc. just to name a few.
Actually, in all honesty, WAR had quite a few brilliant, well thought out, innovative and "new" ideas like Public Quests, leveling 100% through PvP, and the Tome of Knowledge - their biggest problem was that the polish was God awful and the game was only about 60% finished when it launched.
If WAR would have launched at 100% and with good polish (and a decent engine for smooth game play) they had the IDEAS to really win - they just didn't have the follow through. If they would have, WAR would be the game everyone was copying after 2008 or whenever it was.
GW2 as played by hundreds of thousands of fans seems to have both the ideas AND the follow through, which is why people are so excited about it.
because swtor copied games of the past and copied them poorly.. try again
ive yet to see a legit source that clearly states they did.just the same bunch you see in every mmo that calls them wow clones.even if they dont look a thing like wow
ill see if I can find you the dev video but he clearly states you would be crazy not ot follow the "wow model" if anyone has it please post.. either way it's blatently obvious they took such a great IP like star wars added on an on rails story, cookie cutter trinity class/combat system with raiding and battlegrounds for endgame... such a shame for what a great game that IP could produce..
I remember watching that video too. Thing is they made a Wow-light. They forgot all the things that wow launched with that made the game feel more substantial.
Comments
There are people in the world that love the idea of getting items and getting items. And then there are people in the world that love playing a game, discovering stories, and adventuring.
GW2 is for the latter. The other 99% of MMORPGs are for the previous. Everyone wins.
REading threads like this make me feel old. There's a whole list of gamers out there who clame to like mMORPGs but probably don't have the endurance to play a classic RPG.
Not exactly. What it sounds like you're describing in (1) are renown heart "quests", which are relatively simple tasks designed to keep cycling so anyone passing through can take part. Think of your generic WoW quest... instead of the world happening you have a dude with a "!" over his head, talk to him, get a task, do the task, turn it in, move on. Heart quests are vaguely similar... enter an area, see what needs to be done to help the local NPC, choose how to help, join others in helping, get rewarded when complete. NPC now becomes a karma vendor as well, so you have access to stuff you wouldn't have otherwise.
PvP - varies. It sounds like you're thinking world vs world PvP... the 5v5 is a whole different story. But onto WvW... zergs initially may work well, but I've learned that an organized defense can fend of a zerg nearly ten times it's size or more at a structure. Using the seige defenses at a tower, castle, keep, etc. can devastate a disorganized zerg quite beautifully. One defense I was in I manned the burning oil pot in time to take out two flame battering rams simultaneously. The zerg never destroyed the oil pot due to lack of organization and they fell apart when their seige equipment went up in flames. I felt macho.
Progression - close to as you describe it, yes. The big difference will be in knowing your builds, knowing your skills and when to use them. Someone without experience may try to use skills on cooldown and will fail heavily compared to those that choose the right skill when it's needed instead of choose any skill when it's available.
Still, though, you're right on the last point... it is a great game for people that don't have a lot of time as well as for those that do. As they say, it's an easy game to play yet a difficult one to master. It's your story, your pace, have fun with it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
"That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type"
im sure alot of hardcore pvpers will just get bored after a week of running battlegrounds over and over and over again.thats what companys who frown upon world pvp miss
Why do I crave Skittles now?
Oderint, dum metuant.
because TERA is doing so well with its open world pvp..
what's good pvp for "hard core pvpers" in your opinion? you logic makes no sense at all
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
because Lineage 2 godess of destruction lasted for how many years before it went free to play and its pvp was open world pvp
but i guess for the majority of people who gripe about pvp.its not point in arguing with them,there probably the same tards i saw who i rolled for hours in previous mmos cuz they were to dumb after the 10th time i killed them to go find another zone to farm or level in
TERA is doing well with it's open world PvP, actually. Guild vs. Guild is flat-out fun as hell, and one of the better PvP options I've seen in games. Ironic that a game named Guild Wars 2 doesn't even have this option.
but they did implement other forms of PVP and when this game was released not much else was out for PVPers, i'd hardly call lineage 2 the holy grail of pvp games though.. oh forgot to mention half naked elf girls and by far the worst community of players I have ever played with but yea was awsome stuff hardly consider lineage 2 players the majority of PVPers though.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There are hardcore PVPers who prefer open world PVP, and those who prefer the more arena style battles you find in BG's. There's more than one type of hardcore player.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A game can be casual friendly and appeal to the hardcore market. Hardcore people just want recognition for their dedication. The conflict between the two groups is when you give the more time dedicated players, who already have more experience with the game, much more power than the people without as much time. This isolates casual and hardcore players and makes them despise being with eachother. It makes casual players seem like liabilities to have around and makes those casual players feel like liabilities, which sort of goes against what ArenaNet is going for from what I can tell.
GvG is fun which I'd be suprised if it's not something they add onto the game.. open world I can do without though to many times it ends up a gankfest.. Rift's was a joke.. AoC a joke.. lineage 2 I didn't care for I really can't remember a fun open world combat centered game.. I didn't care for it much in TERA so I re-rolled on a PVE server
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
"and by far the worst community of players I have ever played with "
yeah,private servers seemed to have a pretty terrible community.i would still rank world of warcraft as the top in terms of mmos that ive played that have had the worst communitys
swtor would probably rank 2nd on the list.considering how many wow players are playing it
and i dont know about calling it the holy grail of pvp.but with the mmos ive played,i still rank Lineage 2 as one of the best pvp mmos ive played
Yes, the very small population of gamers that is the "hard core " pvpers will not enjoy this game. I have rarely if ever gone on a gaming website and seen a larger portion of PVP servers than PVEs. Sadly, this is because it is a niche.
Folk like u will never realize that Anet is concerentrating on the actual RPG part of MMORPG. I know, go figure. Whereas most games litter their game with eveyrthing under the son, they neglect to remember that RPGs aren't about factions killing one another. It's about a group of good guys going out to kill a group of bad guysand possibly save the world. Thats every RPG, console, computer, tabletop, Live action, that i've played.
So, I'm for one happy to see a studio get that. And, you can keep your pvp players, your gear grinders. Real RPG game players outnumber that lot 10 to 1.
WvWvW pvp is so damn addicting, it will last as long as Counterstrike did for me back in the day. Might not be for everyone though.
"Folk like u will never realize that Anet is concerentrating on the actual RPG part of MMORPG."
yeah,swtor also tried that
people wernt pleased
WEll if they make the same mistake of not adding a reason to keep logging in outside of raids you might have something there.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
because swtor copied games of the past and copied them poorly.. try again
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
ive yet to see a legit source that clearly states they did.just the same bunch you see in every mmo that calls them wow clones.even if they dont look a thing like wow
ill see if I can find you the dev video but he clearly states you would be crazy not ot follow the "wow model" if anyone has it please post.. either way it's blatently obvious they took such a great IP like star wars added on an on rails story, cookie cutter trinity class/combat system with raiding and battlegrounds for endgame... such a shame for what a great game that IP could produce..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
well,im sure alot of mmos have followed the wow model.it doesnt make them bad
like ive said before.its generally just the same old beating a dead horse with a whip argument you see in every mmo.people come in,and even though the game doesnt look a thing like wow,they automatically start beating the drums and calling it a wow clone
ive even seen it done with guild wars 2.they already started calling it wow with dodge
1) DEs -- I think you may be confusing renown hearts with dynamic events (go look up renown hearts). The beginning dynamic events aren't really difficult and don't really require strategy. However, I've noticed towards the end of the starter zone and into the 15-25 zone, DEs started to require strategy. It also depends on the DE. There will always be some DEs that require no strategy involved. Then there will be some that require everyone to work together. It's that whole thing about having a variety of content to suit everyone. This also has to do with the gradual introduction of new mechanics to the players. As players advance into the game, they'll become more skilled with combat, and they'll have more skills available to them.
If I only have an hour to play, why do I want to do content that's going to eat up most of that hour? So I'll do some of the DE that take no more than 5-10 minutes to complete, while doing some of the renown hearts. Then when I get on later and have a few hours to play, I'll do some of the harder stuff.
Yes, you can jump into any DE in the middle of it. Again, they do this for fun and accessibility.
I should mention, your point? With regular questing, you do exactly the same. If you die, just run back and pick up where you left off. Anet does have a penalty for death, but it's a lenient penalty.
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2) PvP -- In structured PvP, gear is standardized between everyone. In WvW, you jump in with the same gear you have in PvE. Yes you can zerg, but you can zerg in every other game too. That doesn't make it an effective tactic. Teamwork, cooperation, and skillful play will always win against the zerg.
With WvW, you will want to have a group focusing on cutting supply lines, then a team focusing on defending, then a team focusing on taking a tower or 2. Then your server should have people on the 3 other maps doing the same thing. The server I was on didn't zerg that much, and in the first matchup in WvW we completely dominated. Then the second match-up, the red team proved to be a challenge because they weren't on the same time zone. However, every zerg eventually failed against us as we stationed everyone just right to defend out keeps. We ended up nearly controlling 2 maps, while holding the central keep in the eternal battleground (central map), and slowly taking over some other keeps.
Zergs will ultimately fail. The reason you mainly saw zergs in the BWE is because no one knows how to play yet! Everyone's still learning the systems, and there just was not enough money in the economy to be able to always afford siege equipment. Nobody really had enough time to devise and test strategies.
In structured PvP, I think it's been made obvious that skillful play, teamwork, and not zerging will win every time against a team that constantly zergs and just does not work together.
Finally, the game is not focused on 1v1. It never has been. Anet even stated their making a game focused on teamwork and cooperation, much like GW1. There's a reason why dueling is not an option in GW2, as it goes against their philosophy of teamwork.
Also, Anet made it blatantly obvious that it's possible to 3v1 and still win if you know how to play.
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3) Progression -- Not necessarily. The person playing 5 months should be more knowledgable and more skillful than the person playing only 1 month. Again, skill and teamwork are the determining factor in GW2. If you suck at playing the game, you do not have the uber hat of death to hide behind. If the person playing 5 months never bothered to learn how to effectively play their profession, then by all means the person playing 1 month should still be able to beat the person playing 5 months.
I, personally, have always hated gear progression in other games. Why should person x be more powerful than me just because he can play 15 hours a day? He should be more skilled than me, and be able to destroy me because he's more knowledgable aobut the game. However, he should not be able to beat me because he has that uber hat of death whereas I'm still 500 points away from getting the semi-uber hate of death.
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As has been stated before in this thread, casual and hardcore are merely mindsets. You can run dungeons religiously if you want, or attempt to take keeps every hour of every day if you want. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, would be considered hardcore.
Or, you can run a dungeon maybe every so often, hang out in the cities, explore a bit, do some PvP, etc. which would fit the casual mindset.
However, casual vs hardcore has no influence on difficulty. Casual players may have a harder time than hardcore players, but that's only because hardcore players put more time and effort into the game.
So this lead me to this: The only distinction between casual players and hardcore players is the timel. A casual player may only put in an hour or so a day, whereas a hardcore may put in maybe 5 or so hours a day in pursuit of some end goal. Again, it all comes down to ~time~.
Yes a game can be more casual friendy making it take less time to get something (note, that does not imply less challenging), however they can also be hardcore friendly.
Finally, GW2 is challenging. It's not easy, but it's not so difficult that you would throw your computer out the window whlie pulling hair out of your head. It's just challenging.
There will always be people who do that. Unfortunately, there are some people who see WoW as the first MMO ever, and every other game is just copying things from WoW.
What you need to look at instead is how the systems used in the game are implemented. Are the implemented in such a way that makes them original to the game, or are the just purely copy and paste. People say SWToR is a WoW clone because combat is similar, PvP is similar, and the fact that once you're max level you just start raid progression.
"Finally, GW2 is challenging. It's not easy, but it's not so difficult that you would throw your computer out the window whlie pulling hair out of your head. It's just challenging."
thats nice.but it all depends on how arenanet handles feedback
a bunch of casuals would come with there sobbing tears on forums and arenanet could dumb down the game so even a retard could do it.i mean me personally,i dont mind a little challenge in a mmo,but what pisses me off more then hard content is content getting nerfed because people choose the route to complain and pull the life card then actually try to get better first
Just about every "major" MMO after WoW in 2004 has been a variation of the exact same thing -
WoW +/- gimmick -
WAR - WoW +/- RvR
AoC - WoW +/- adult content
Rift - WoW +/- public groups
TOR - WoW +/- story
TERA - WoW +/- aiming/dodge
TSW - WoW +/- skill deck leveling
GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently, not just the one gimmick thing they do differently while everything else is the same:
-no trinity
-active combat
-dynamic events and hearts (kind of like combination of PQ's in WAR and Rifts in Rift combined, but better designed)
-underwater combat
-WvWvW (like RvR ala WAR/DAOC)
-conquest mode PvP (no gear, no stat difference, just player skill + builds)
-story (like TOR with personal, instanced story)
-less focus on gear/progression (level down scaling, no gear treadmill)
etc. etc. just to name a few.
Actually, in all honesty, WAR had quite a few brilliant, well thought out, innovative and "new" ideas like Public Quests, leveling 100% through PvP, and the Tome of Knowledge - their biggest problem was that the polish was God awful and the game was only about 60% finished when it launched.
If WAR would have launched at 100% and with good polish (and a decent engine for smooth game play) they had the IDEAS to really win - they just didn't have the follow through. If they would have, WAR would be the game everyone was copying after 2008 or whenever it was.
GW2 as played by hundreds of thousands of fans seems to have both the ideas AND the follow through, which is why people are so excited about it.
I remember watching that video too. Thing is they made a Wow-light. They forgot all the things that wow launched with that made the game feel more substantial.