WvW is just a big battleground. Call it what you'd like.. that's all it is. Saying it should satisfy everyone is just ridiculous.
it should satisfy everyone, huge open worlds with objectives and tons of people to fight. its not just a big battleground, thats like saying DAOCs RVR was a big battleground because its a seperate area.
sorry but if you as a PVPer is not enthused by this concept you're full of crap when you say you don't want to gank and you enjoy fighting other players.
The Devs were asked this during the Reddit interview this very question... here's their response...
Hello! Excited to play your game but had one big question...why no open world pvp (or servers that offer that)? The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world pvp, and while it isn't 'true' open world pvp for more pvp purists, it does contains many of the elements that make world pvp so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world pvp. –Ferg
Why is there no open world PvP? Before people suggest WvW, let me say I come from DarkHaven. We demolished every fight I took part in, which is why I came to hate it.
Really? I guess you weren't around on your first match against Crystal Desert yet when they annihilated your server on the second BWE huh?
Why is there no open world PvP? Before people suggest WvW, let me say I come from DarkHaven. We demolished every fight I took part in, which is why I came to hate it.
Really? I guess you weren't around on your first match against Crystal Desert yet when they annihilated your server on the second BWE huh?
Or how they barely beat Yak's Bend, due to the 3rd server being stupid and not taking Darkhaven points. Overrated with lot's of players is all i can say.
They did an OPvP event for the last beta weekend. It was fun, but a complete disaster at the same time. It completely ruined one of the maps for people.
Can you not change channels with the whole server-overlfow thing or what?
Why can't people just switch to a map not hosting the event if it's that much of an issue for some?
Whole thing reeks of bias.
Pretty sure you cant change channels or overflows as there called to prevent farming...
First of all sorry for my bad english, ( not a native speaker )
Tell me if i'm wrong. But atleast for me Gw2 WvWvW PvP brings back that old school style of PvP. People that say its carebear PvP, i respect your opnion but i don't agree with what you are saying. Open World PvP i do enjoy but in most games it ends up beeing kill the low lvl PvP. While in this game we can say that the PvP map is big it gets close to Open World.
I'm happy with the PvP systems in the game atm, as i said for me it brings back how PvP should be, games in the past have tried to change PvP by removing the large scale fights / making those fights useless. Gw2 brings this back.
Alot of Mmo's have tried to make PvP gear based ( Tor, WoW, ... ) because adding a PvP stat like in those games creates a unbalance. For the first time in years skill is more important then gear again and i think like me many others are happy to see this again.
IF we had open world pvp , there would be no pvp ( players vs player is great, not player vs unprepared half Hp or fighting a mob player), people would stay in the cities so they wouldnt be ganked, in GW2 it is even more retarded because everyone in your server fights for the same cause.
The closest you can have to open pvp and still being fair, is WvWvW 3 factions, structured pvp is fun if it as a ladder system like GW2 other wise it is becomes boring fast.
GW2 makes pvp feel even better since it makes having better gear obsolete.
This. And I get annoyed by the fact that even if there's some form of open world PvP a large part of that same crowd then starts complaining that there's no point doing it because there's no incentives. So just allowing world PvP isn't enough, they need to be held by the hand and have designated areas / objectives instead of organising things themselves. Then when there's objectives added in certain areas they start complaining it's more like a battleground than real PvP. They can't seem to make up their mind.
That is because those same people basically want to get recognised and rewarded for ganking and griefing and generally being jerks - hence freestyle world pvp with recognition and rewards.
They don't understand that the majority (especially the one that are being ganked) are not impressed and don't want them to be recognise or rewarded - and that's including the game developers who are making money or wants to make money.
As for PVP in the persistant world....I don't see how that would fit with lore or anything...and my opinion is that open world PVP was never that great (very unimaginative) in most MMOs (WoW's WAS great, but now there isn't much reason to explore the world, no world bosses, very few rares to farm, etc--and so all open world PVP is now is ganking), whereas WvWvW gives a cool, explorable, battleground with many features, and constant impact on the persistant world....there is also a huge chance they will start adding events, other specials, expansion of the WvWvW stage. Its something new melded with old ideas, and I really like it and like the fact that they are trying new things
WoW had open world PvP? The fact that people call it open world PvP and think that is great makes it pretty obvious to me that many people do not have the same definition of "good PvP".
Open World PvP in WoW and basically any game comes down to "Open World Ganking". When playing most of these games, the times where I actually felt like I was having a fun and evenly matched PvP experiece are next to none. It is either some monstrous 50 person zerg killing solo players, high levels ganking lower levels when they are killing mobs, or any combination or in-between of the above two. This isn't PvP, it is simply stupidity/bad/horrible PvP.
When I say "Open World PvP" I am talking about games like WAR or DAoC. Games where it is more structured, with objectives. Not just out to gank people who are not looking to PvP at the moment. Where your actions actually effect your world, which is persistent. It isn't about just ganking people with an overwhelming force of players or levels, it is actually mutually agree'ing to PvP against the other side. It is almost like a battleground, but not really. Simply entering an area with PvP objectives is agreeing to the fact you are KoS to the other faction(s).
There are still issues with population balance in this PvP, but in a 3 faction system, things start to get very interesting, very quickly. Once GW2 servers get balanced and matched up correctly, the WvWvW stuff should be amazing. Good open world PvP to me does not involved ganking at all. It involves strategy, flanking, sneak attacks, baiting, feinting weakness, strategic pushes and retreats, seige engine warfare, army movement and attack angles, timing, etc. If real Open World, Structured, Objective based PvP doesn't scratch your PvP itch, then you don't know what real PvP is. In turn, go back to ganking noobs in starter zones to make yourself think you are something you are not (good at PvP).
What you describe as being Open World is the exact same thing GW2 does open world. In DAoC you only PvP'ed in the Frontiers, in WAR only in the Lakes and in GW2 its the Mists. I see no distiction between the 3 so your description of the 2 are the same exact description that GW2 utilyzes.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
The Devs were asked this during the Reddit interview this very question... here's their response...
Hello! Excited to play your game but had one big question...why no open world pvp (or servers that offer that)? The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world pvp, and while it isn't 'true' open world pvp for more pvp purists, it does contains many of the elements that make world pvp so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world pvp. –Ferg
Well that pretty much puts an end to this thread. Word from the devs clearly outlining why the game doesn't and won't have open world PvP.
Why is there no open world PvP? Before people suggest WvW, let me say I come from DarkHaven. We demolished every fight I took part in, which is why I came to hate it.
Really? I guess you weren't around on your first match against Crystal Desert yet when they annihilated your server on the second BWE huh?
Or how they barely beat Yak's Bend, due to the 3rd server being stupid and not taking Darkhaven points. Overrated with lot's of players is all i can say.
not to mention Darkhaven got their asses handed to them by Team Legacy's server when they got paired up on Saturday night.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Guild Wars 2 is a game specifically designed for players to be working together, Open world pvp is sure to deter that from happening, Im glad they didnt turn this game into another Aoc white sands Isles GANK fest !
In beta the servers don't really have the data yet to match balanced opponents yet. When your server gets matched up with a proper server your challenge will be there.
Pretty much this^
Beta Weekends is a poor measure to go by, since WvW matches will be 2 weeks long. Although, i agree with the OP on some aspects, such as "nameless opponents". It just makes it feel generic in a way.
Casual and Carebear, yes because ganking someone who is much lower level that they can't even fight back or attacking someone that is engaged on a mob with less than half life ... is so hardcore and so elite. I'm sorry you and your guild of internet badasses aka those guys that got picked on in high school can't run around and grief lowbies guess you will have to go play darkfall or EVE.
its amazing to always hear how hardcore those that want Open PVP are, yet whenever i play on an Open PVP server (and yes i spent the majority of my time on Rifts PVP servers as well as a lot of time on Mordred in DAOC) they only engage if ...
The enemy has much lower health than them
They are much much higher level
they have a full group with them
or all of the above.
Do you have mental issues? The OP even stated he doesn't follow that behaviour. Yet I like how everyone rushes to accuse him of it, proves my point about blindraging fanboys.
right because every person always tells the truth like a person who griefs will actively admit it please and i think he was refering to overall not just the op
Actually I believe it is common that they do, just read EVE's forum. In Salem, the griefers actively admit that they grief and they aren't ashamed of it.
You're a little late to that party aren't you? This topic has been done to death (like most other topics about GW2).
Open world PvP would not work for GW2 for one simple fact: Everyone is supposed to be trying to work together! That is the way the story is set up. Why would I want to work with you if you just tried to kill me? Or if you killed my friend? If the U.S. and China were trying to put aside their differences enough to cooperate to get rid of a greater threat, how willing would China be if the U.S. bombed one of their cities? Or vice versa?
If you understand the lore of GW2 and think about it for just a minute, you will see why open world PvP has no place in the game. If you want open world PvP, I suggest playing something else, like Eve. (Which I hear is a very good game)
In GW2 noone can really "die", it is not a permadeath game. A better analogy would be: how much is U.S.A. willing to cooperate with China against the environmental threat despite China's numerous violations against human rights. Oh wait.
WvWvW should satisfy everyones thirst for open PVP, if you don't enjoy WvWvW then you are there just to grief and gank players that can't fight back.
its basically the same as DAOC, one of the best PVP game around, so again if this doesn't satisfy your PVP thirst, then you should probably go back and play whatever game you came from where you can gank "bluebies".
GW2 = open PVP without all the griefing and ganking BS.
This couldn't be more incorrect. You just don't get open world pvp aparently. And you are staggeringly wrong on your last point.
I love open world pvp. I don't "gank" or "grief" other players. Never have, never will. I'm just not that kind of player. The reason I love open world pvp is because I like to fight other players. I also love questing. While I'm out questing, I like the feeling of danger that I'm not completely safe out there. For me, it adds to the game. Then you see the other player while your questing. The adrenalene gets going, you fight, you win, you loose, whatever... it's still fun for me. There are a lot of games that use questing to push two factions towards each other in the zones, so you're levels are usually on par.
It's not all about ganking and greifing. People like you try to make it out that way, but it's just not true. Take Eq2 for example with open world pvp servers. They even capped the levels in zones to make sure there is no "griefing". I had a ball playing that too. Open world pvp can be fun and is in plenty of games. It also encourages you to join a guild and interact with others for protection if needed.
Oddly enough... I have been playing WoW and Eq2 on and off for 7 years on pvp servers. I can count the number of times I've had "greifing" issues on one hand.
WvW is just a big battleground. Call it what you'd like.. that's all it is. Saying it should satisfy everyone is just ridiculous.
Your post is excellent to show several great aspects about open PvP. I have to disagree though about your comment about WvW, if the battleground becomes large enough it becomes open PvP. It may not be the Open PvP you like, but Open PvP can take many different shapes and size is an important factor in determining whether or not something can be considered to be open PvP.
WvW is just a big battleground. Call it what you'd like.. that's all it is. Saying it should satisfy everyone is just ridiculous.
it should satisfy everyone, huge open worlds with objectives and tons of people to fight. its not just a big battleground, thats like saying DAOCs RVR was a big battleground because its a seperate area.
sorry but if you as a PVPer is not enthused by this concept you're full of crap when you say you don't want to gank and you enjoy fighting other players.
How good and common is the PvE questing in WvW? Is it designed so that PvE questors from the different factions but of similar levels quest in the same area with not too far distance between each other?
Beta Weekends is a poor measure to go by, since WvW matches will be 2 weeks long. Although, i agree with the OP on some aspects, such as "nameless opponents". It just makes it feel generic in a way.
The idea is to take out possibilities for vengance which can infect the community....
I dunno, I don't care either way, mobs rarely have name so as long as the custom appearance is on it is fine in my book.
IF we had open world pvp , there would be no pvp ( players vs player is great, not player vs unprepared half Hp or fighting a mob player), people would stay in the cities so they wouldnt be ganked, in GW2 it is even more retarded because everyone in your server fights for the same cause.
The closest you can have to open pvp and still being fair, is WvWvW 3 factions, structured pvp is fun if it as a ladder system like GW2 other wise it is becomes boring fast.
GW2 makes pvp feel even better since it makes having better gear obsolete.
Your example about the "unprepared half hp or fighting a mob player" is fallacious because it assumes that the player is stupid and completely ignorant of the fact that he is playing on a PvP server.
The "Half hp or fighting a mob player" knew that he was taking a risk, but he decided that he is willing to take that risk. He probably even has an escape route planned in case someone gets near him. He is prepared.
This has been debated many times before and it wont change. This game will not feature ganking! Because lets face it 99% of the time when people talk about open world PvP they mean ganking or griefing. Plus this MMO does not want any form of elitist or competition between the inhabitants of the same server. So no.
I agree. I also think they just start these threads as a form of trolling.
Comments
yes please let the trash play with other trash and leave the rest of us alone.
it should satisfy everyone, huge open worlds with objectives and tons of people to fight. its not just a big battleground, thats like saying DAOCs RVR was a big battleground because its a seperate area.
sorry but if you as a PVPer is not enthused by this concept you're full of crap when you say you don't want to gank and you enjoy fighting other players.
The Devs were asked this during the Reddit interview this very question... here's their response...
Hello! Excited to play your game but had one big question...why no open world pvp (or servers that offer that)?
The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world pvp, and while it isn't 'true' open world pvp for more pvp purists, it does contains many of the elements that make world pvp so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world pvp. –Ferg
Oderint, dum metuant.
Really? I guess you weren't around on your first match against Crystal Desert yet when they annihilated your server on the second BWE huh?
Or how they barely beat Yak's Bend, due to the 3rd server being stupid and not taking Darkhaven points. Overrated with lot's of players is all i can say.
Pretty sure you cant change channels or overflows as there called to prevent farming...
First of all sorry for my bad english, ( not a native speaker )
Tell me if i'm wrong. But atleast for me Gw2 WvWvW PvP brings back that old school style of PvP. People that say its carebear PvP, i respect your opnion but i don't agree with what you are saying. Open World PvP i do enjoy but in most games it ends up beeing kill the low lvl PvP. While in this game we can say that the PvP map is big it gets close to Open World.
I'm happy with the PvP systems in the game atm, as i said for me it brings back how PvP should be, games in the past have tried to change PvP by removing the large scale fights / making those fights useless. Gw2 brings this back.
Alot of Mmo's have tried to make PvP gear based ( Tor, WoW, ... ) because adding a PvP stat like in those games creates a unbalance. For the first time in years skill is more important then gear again and i think like me many others are happy to see this again.
IF we had open world pvp , there would be no pvp ( players vs player is great, not player vs unprepared half Hp or fighting a mob player), people would stay in the cities so they wouldnt be ganked, in GW2 it is even more retarded because everyone in your server fights for the same cause.
The closest you can have to open pvp and still being fair, is WvWvW 3 factions, structured pvp is fun if it as a ladder system like GW2 other wise it is becomes boring fast.
GW2 makes pvp feel even better since it makes having better gear obsolete.
my ONLY concern is that WvWvW is small compared to PvE and it needs more of its elements ..!
i love the fact that, if i am tired and i want to PvE i dont have to change server, or that
all the open world PvP aspects of WvWvW, are simple awesome with the forts the supplies adn the sieges ..!
i just want more jumping quests, more dynamic events and more maps in the WvWvW zone!
That is because those same people basically want to get recognised and rewarded for ganking and griefing and generally being jerks - hence freestyle world pvp with recognition and rewards.
They don't understand that the majority (especially the one that are being ganked) are not impressed and don't want them to be recognise or rewarded - and that's including the game developers who are making money or wants to make money.
What you describe as being Open World is the exact same thing GW2 does open world. In DAoC you only PvP'ed in the Frontiers, in WAR only in the Lakes and in GW2 its the Mists. I see no distiction between the 3 so your description of the 2 are the same exact description that GW2 utilyzes.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Well that pretty much puts an end to this thread. Word from the devs clearly outlining why the game doesn't and won't have open world PvP.
not to mention Darkhaven got their asses handed to them by Team Legacy's server when they got paired up on Saturday night.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Guild Wars 2 is a game specifically designed for players to be working together, Open world pvp is sure to deter that from happening, Im glad they didnt turn this game into another Aoc white sands Isles GANK fest !
Pretty much this^
Beta Weekends is a poor measure to go by, since WvW matches will be 2 weeks long. Although, i agree with the OP on some aspects, such as "nameless opponents". It just makes it feel generic in a way.
All does features are cool, but what we need in WvWvW is Siege WARS
Actually I believe it is common that they do, just read EVE's forum. In Salem, the griefers actively admit that they grief and they aren't ashamed of it.
In GW2 noone can really "die", it is not a permadeath game. A better analogy would be: how much is U.S.A. willing to cooperate with China against the environmental threat despite China's numerous violations against human rights. Oh wait.
Your post is excellent to show several great aspects about open PvP. I have to disagree though about your comment about WvW, if the battleground becomes large enough it becomes open PvP. It may not be the Open PvP you like, but Open PvP can take many different shapes and size is an important factor in determining whether or not something can be considered to be open PvP.
How good and common is the PvE questing in WvW? Is it designed so that PvE questors from the different factions but of similar levels quest in the same area with not too far distance between each other?
The idea is to take out possibilities for vengance which can infect the community....
I dunno, I don't care either way, mobs rarely have name so as long as the custom appearance is on it is fine in my book.
Your example about the "unprepared half hp or fighting a mob player" is fallacious because it assumes that the player is stupid and completely ignorant of the fact that he is playing on a PvP server.
The "Half hp or fighting a mob player" knew that he was taking a risk, but he decided that he is willing to take that risk. He probably even has an escape route planned in case someone gets near him. He is prepared.
@OP
Pretty Sure Darkhaven copped a licking from Crystal Desert in BWE2.
Darkhaven might have the (Reddit) numbers, But Crystal Desert has the Ascension Alliance: Team Legacy, EDGE Gaming, Pain Train, Lords of the Dead, Resonance, Boon Control.
And we'll be bringing the noise.
Hope to see you in the Eternal Battlegrounds.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
I agree. I also think they just start these threads as a form of trolling.Erm Crystal Desert had crazy numbers in WvW last BWE. Not sure where you are getting this oh we are the low pop but skilled server.
Against Maguuma at some point CD had 15 guys just to escort one supply caravan while 100s of other people were taking keeps.
Yeah um you aren't out numbered.