Someone with an army of minis, lots of town clothing, different tonics or a load of dyes will probably win against you in WvWvW for sure. /sarcasm
Not everyone is only interested in the PvP competition.
Ok then. I rephrase since it's not very obvious.
Someone with an army of minis, lots of town clothing, different tonics or a load of dyes will probably complete the dungeons easier than you.
or
Someone with an army of minis, lots of town clothing, different tonics or a load of dyes will probably be better at finishing DEs than you.
/sarcasm
I hope it's clear now.
Same argument: not everyone is only interested in the PvP competition, "finishing DE's as fast as possible"-competition and "Complete dungeons as fast as possible" - competition.
One competition which will definitely be affected is the wealth one (which may be of interest for people who love playing the market in MMORPGs).
Same argument: not everyone is only interested in the PvP competition, "finishing DE's as fast as possible"-competition and "Complete dungeons as fast as possible" - competition.
One competition which will definitely be affected is the wealth one (which may be of interest for people who love playing the market in MMORPGs).
You mean some people are interested in having more money than others and will be at a disadvantage because those who pay RL money will use the gems to earn MORE gold than them?
We remove the useless item grind, raiding and all that and we now have this "problem"? Seriously?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I have zero tolerance when it comes to paying for advantages since I want players to earn what they have in games and I find the "time convenience item" argument silly since time is what you use to achieve things in games.
May I redirect you to my post above yours
"Someone with an army of minis, lots of town clothing, different tonics or a load of dyes will probably win against you in WvWvW for sure. /sarcasm"
The only use of gems is to buy advantages over other players by using real money.. Those advantages may not be gamebreaking for you but they are still there.
I can understand people who prefer the cash shop to a monthly subscription, people who plan to use the cash shop to buy advantages and people who don't care if others use it to buy advantages. I don't understand people who try to argue that gems aren't used to gain advantages, no matter how small and justifiable you think they are it's still the only purpose of gems and the cash shop.
Finally a game that doesn't focus on how much gold someone has collected and having a ton of gold isn't really a big deal. In the BWE2 I played, nothing I did rewarded very much money. Besides siege weaponry, what does anyone expect to buy with gold?
Same argument: not everyone is only interested in the PvP competition, "finishing DE's as fast as possible"-competition and "Complete dungeons as fast as possible" - competition.
One competition which will definitely be affected is the wealth one (which may be of interest for people who love playing the market in MMORPGs).
You mean some people are interested in having more money than others and will be at a disadvantage because those who pay RL money will use the gems to earn MORE gold than them?
We remove the useless item grind, raiding and all that and we now have this "problem"? Seriously?
For your first question: it doesn't necessarely mean that those who pay RL money will use the gems to earn more gold than them. It just means that the strategy to maximize gold is changed signficantely by allowing people to trade RL money to gold through gems. There is a risk that the fastest way to earn gold is not by playing the market inside the game, but by working extra in real life and then turning that extra money into gems and then gold.
Far from everyone enjoys playing the market inside of the game, so I don't expect this aspect to affect a majority. However, those who enjoy that sort of gameplay have reason to feel discontent about that particular aspect even though the rest of the game may be enough to outweight the cons.
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
In other games the lucky rule the market, or the 24/7 grinders.... one lucky drop makes you rich and powerful (or even nets you RL money) is that so much better?
Anyway there are lots of people who "play the market" I even know people who do it even in GW1 which has no actual use for money (other than vanity items). Still those people can "power trade" the gems. Buy them for few gold, sell them for lots, make profit, that way they can play the "market game" the way they want and it might be more challenging that way
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
you asking me or telling me^
Yes it is unthinkable, honestly. Example: I started playing EQ again when the progression servers went up. It was great - the best nostalgia of mmos I've had in a long time - I started a bard. The release of Ruins of Kunark meant epic weapons. So I start my epic weapon quest only to find out that these guilds who are bent on having the most money in the game, for whatever reason, farm these items I needed for epic quests. Okay, so I can't get one from actually killing mob myself with my own guild, so I say i'll buy the dragon scale I need. Well they want 100,000 platinum for it because they play the market. Well, I quit the game shortly after finding out players are hoarding and selling items needed to complete epic pve content. Playing the Market ^^
Why not go with the theory of how is gem trading actually P2W because someone that buy gold with real money can buy best gear on Auction House? Pure pay to win if you ask me :eyeroll:
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
In other games the lucky rule the market, or the 24/7 grinders.... one lucky drop makes you rich and powerful (or even nets you RL money) is that so much better?
Anyway there are lots of people who "play the market" I even know people who do it even in GW1 which has no actual use for money (other than vanity items). Still those people can "power trade" the gems. Buy them for few gold, sell them for lots, make profit, that way they can play the "market game" the way they want and it might be more challenging that way
Depends on what conidtion they set on themselves. If they have want to maximize gold by any legal means, they need to consider how much working extra in real life will give them in ingame gold and that can very well lead to situations where the most efficient path is not playing the game at all, but working extra.
However, if they set an artificial condition to not allow themselves to use real life money, then they do not need to consider how efficient working extra is. Then all the gem-for-gold system does is to change the specifics of different strategies they employ.
From my experience, the 24/7 grinders and the lucky are not the richest in the game, those who play the market usually are.
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
you asking me or telling me^
Yes it is unthinkable, honestly. Example: I started playing EQ again when the progression servers went up. It was great - the best nostalgia of mmos I've had in a long time - I started a bard. The release of Ruins of Kunark meant epic weapons. So I start my epic weapon quest only to find out that these guilds who are bent on having the most money in the game, for whatever reason, farm these items I needed for epic quests. Okay, so I can't get one from actually killing mob myself with my own guild, so I say i'll buy the dragon scale I need. Well they want 100,000 platinum for it because they play the market. Well, I quit the game shortly after finding out players are hoarding and selling items needed to complete epic pve content. Playing the Market ^^
off topic, but you asked <-edit
I see then why you would feel a major aversion towards those who play the market, thank you for your story.
Why not go with the theory of how is gem trading actually P2W because someone that buy gold with real money can buy best gear on Auction House? Pure pay to win if you ask me :eyeroll:
maybe its because its an unresolved issue, or at least, one that people arent exactly comfortable with. i suspect that it will only go away when the game is released and fears over that issue are assuaged.. or it might get worse if their point of view becomes vindicated, pretty much a wait and see kind of thing, until then though, its all pretty much guesswork on either side.
I don't think so. ArenaNET didn't go so far just to make a mistake on the gem price and give some slack to gold selling companies. Remember, the system doesn't costs ArenaNET anything, not even time, while gold sellers need to have farmers in game who need time to gather the gold and an infrastructure to get the real life money and deliver the gold.
It just won't be worth it to farm/sell gold in this game. Not to mention the ban risk for the buyer, who will always prefer the official way in this case, since it's without risk and totally legal.
Is this the "price to pay" (pun intended) to have a gold seller free game? Considering the game isn't gear centric, I think it can work. I don't think we will ever see "cheap gold on GW4GOLD.COM, promotions this week, fast delivery" in our chat, and that's a relief.
Plex doesn't stop Isk farmers from selling Isk in Eve.
Also Arenanet may set the beta price, however the market will set the true price.
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
Looks like you're just looking to defend your original statement by thinking up something new against every counter argument.
When it comes to a "wealth" competition, this is hardly measurable unless all players post a screenshot somewhere of how many gold they have so can hardly be called a competition.
5. As of BWE 2, the only way to obtain town clothes or minis was to purchase them from the gem shop. Will some town clothes or minis be obtainable as in-game rewards (say, for achievements or as mini-game prizes) when the game launches, or will they be restricted to the cash shop only?
Eric: At the moment, our plan for town clothes and minis is that they are only available via the Black Lion Trading Post (formerly, the Gem Store). There are, of course, some exceptions to this for things like the collector’s edition and other promotional giveaways. One other thing to note is that players are able to use in-game gold to trade for gems with other players via the exchange, so a player does not necessarily need to use cash to acquire these items.
I highlighted the part that concerns me in red. If you can buy gems for real money and trade them with other players for gold, isn´t that the exact same thing as buying gold?
I mean, if I have say 3000 gold, and my friend has 3000 gems he bought for 10 euro´s ( I don´t know the exact costs) and then trades the gems to my account for 3000 gold. In my speculations that´s buying gold for money, but now the goldseller gets gems and ArenaNet gets the money.
So you can buy gems with real world money. Gems can be used in the game store, and also traded to other players for in game money.
'Style' items can be purchased - visual accessories.
'Consumable' items can be purchased. This includes Mystic Keys to unlock Mystic Chests. You can also get keys from personal quests or as a random drop. This might be a boost, but it's something you could get anyway...so iffy to call it an advantage. You can also add random elements to Zommoro's gifts or crafting. This might give an advantage, or it might make you explode into confetti when you die. I'd like the confetti thing myself.
'Boosts' can be purchased. These give you additional XP or Karma while they are active. These are the only things that look like they'd give any player a definite advantage, but there it looks like it's just the leveling time and time it takes to accumulate Karma.
I don't see anything here I'd object to. I don't see anything where if I ran into a player who spent $100 in the store that I'd have trouble in WvWvW if I spent nothing.
This just doesn't seem like a big deal right now.
** edit ** I don't see anything wrong with 'buying gold', as long as it is a part of the game setup by the developer. If the overall playerbase wants faster leveling and easier to obtain gold, then more power to them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Same argument: not everyone is only interested in the PvP competition, "finishing DE's as fast as possible"-competition and "Complete dungeons as fast as possible" - competition.
One competition which will definitely be affected is the wealth one (which may be of interest for people who love playing the market in MMORPGs).
You mean some people are interested in having more money than others and will be at a disadvantage because those who pay RL money will use the gems to earn MORE gold than them?
We remove the useless item grind, raiding and all that and we now have this "problem"? Seriously?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
The only use of gems is to buy advantages over other players by using real money.. Those advantages may not be gamebreaking for you but they are still there.
I can understand people who prefer the cash shop to a monthly subscription, people who plan to use the cash shop to buy advantages and people who don't care if others use it to buy advantages. I don't understand people who try to argue that gems aren't used to gain advantages, no matter how small and justifiable you think they are it's still the only purpose of gems and the cash shop.
A pretty dress isn't an advantage, it's a luxury.
Finally a game that doesn't focus on how much gold someone has collected and having a ton of gold isn't really a big deal. In the BWE2 I played, nothing I did rewarded very much money. Besides siege weaponry, what does anyone expect to buy with gold?
For your first question: it doesn't necessarely mean that those who pay RL money will use the gems to earn more gold than them. It just means that the strategy to maximize gold is changed signficantely by allowing people to trade RL money to gold through gems. There is a risk that the fastest way to earn gold is not by playing the market inside the game, but by working extra in real life and then turning that extra money into gems and then gold.
Far from everyone enjoys playing the market inside of the game, so I don't expect this aspect to affect a majority. However, those who enjoy that sort of gameplay have reason to feel discontent about that particular aspect even though the rest of the game may be enough to outweight the cons.
People actually buy mmos to 'play the market' ?......lmao, you're wasting your real life money.
I don't think it alone is reason enough to buy a MMO, but it is really unthinkable that someone would enjoy that aspect? What happened to tolerance and respect for the taste and opinions of other people?
One could argue than darker/black dyes can make him harder to see at night or in darker spots of the WvW map...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
you asking me or telling me^
Asking you.
In other games the lucky rule the market, or the 24/7 grinders.... one lucky drop makes you rich and powerful (or even nets you RL money) is that so much better?
Anyway there are lots of people who "play the market" I even know people who do it even in GW1 which has no actual use for money (other than vanity items). Still those people can "power trade" the gems. Buy them for few gold, sell them for lots, make profit, that way they can play the "market game" the way they want and it might be more challenging that way
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Yes it is unthinkable, honestly. Example: I started playing EQ again when the progression servers went up. It was great - the best nostalgia of mmos I've had in a long time - I started a bard. The release of Ruins of Kunark meant epic weapons. So I start my epic weapon quest only to find out that these guilds who are bent on having the most money in the game, for whatever reason, farm these items I needed for epic quests. Okay, so I can't get one from actually killing mob myself with my own guild, so I say i'll buy the dragon scale I need. Well they want 100,000 platinum for it because they play the market. Well, I quit the game shortly after finding out players are hoarding and selling items needed to complete epic pve content. Playing the Market ^^
off topic, but you asked <-edit
Really? This topic again?
Why not go with the theory of how is gem trading actually P2W because someone that buy gold with real money can buy best gear on Auction House? Pure pay to win if you ask me :eyeroll:
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Depends on what conidtion they set on themselves. If they have want to maximize gold by any legal means, they need to consider how much working extra in real life will give them in ingame gold and that can very well lead to situations where the most efficient path is not playing the game at all, but working extra.
However, if they set an artificial condition to not allow themselves to use real life money, then they do not need to consider how efficient working extra is. Then all the gem-for-gold system does is to change the specifics of different strategies they employ.
From my experience, the 24/7 grinders and the lucky are not the richest in the game, those who play the market usually are.
I see then why you would feel a major aversion towards those who play the market, thank you for your story.
i see it like this
you cant buy anything giving an advantage over anyone at shops/sellers
you cant buy anything giving an advantage over anyone in the gemstore
so since gems will probably will cost quite some gold, youll be able to gems for quite alot of gold to buy cosmetics
so its really:
Amount of time spent in it -> PvE cosmetics etc. <- Amount of real life money spent in it
and as long as it does not change anything in wvw, dungeons and sPvP , i dont mind how the gold/gem selling is going to be
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
maybe its because its an unresolved issue, or at least, one that people arent exactly comfortable with. i suspect that it will only go away when the game is released and fears over that issue are assuaged.. or it might get worse if their point of view becomes vindicated, pretty much a wait and see kind of thing, until then though, its all pretty much guesswork on either side.
Plex doesn't stop Isk farmers from selling Isk in Eve.
Also Arenanet may set the beta price, however the market will set the true price.
Looks like you're just looking to defend your original statement by thinking up something new against every counter argument.
When it comes to a "wealth" competition, this is hardly measurable unless all players post a screenshot somewhere of how many gold they have so can hardly be called a competition.
please tell me what advantages you buy from shop???
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
It's old news.... They talked about this ever since they told us about the cash shop...
So I'm not concerned because gold doesn't have such big value in this game since most of important things are obtained trough "Karma".
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
I still see no real "advantages" in the gem store.... -.-
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
So you can buy gems with real world money. Gems can be used in the game store, and also traded to other players for in game money.
'Style' items can be purchased - visual accessories.
'Consumable' items can be purchased. This includes Mystic Keys to unlock Mystic Chests. You can also get keys from personal quests or as a random drop. This might be a boost, but it's something you could get anyway...so iffy to call it an advantage. You can also add random elements to Zommoro's gifts or crafting. This might give an advantage, or it might make you explode into confetti when you die. I'd like the confetti thing myself.
'Boosts' can be purchased. These give you additional XP or Karma while they are active. These are the only things that look like they'd give any player a definite advantage, but there it looks like it's just the leveling time and time it takes to accumulate Karma.
I don't see anything here I'd object to. I don't see anything where if I ran into a player who spent $100 in the store that I'd have trouble in WvWvW if I spent nothing.
This just doesn't seem like a big deal right now.
** edit **
I don't see anything wrong with 'buying gold', as long as it is a part of the game setup by the developer. If the overall playerbase wants faster leveling and easier to obtain gold, then more power to them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.