And it's still not clear how much impact the ability to buy blueprints will have on WvW.
So I mean, instead of trying to argue that the cash shop is satan, or that it is an innocent little lamb...why not just try to see it rationally?
I think there is sweet spot between supply and blueprints , between WwW regulars and PvE players being quests.
If ArenaNet can hit the spot were supply limits the amount of siege equipment. But without everyone automaticly runs around with blueprints to every occations because gold cost is high enough.
And PvE players still will be very wellcome simply because they have more gold to spend on blueprints, than the PvP regulars, that simply would feel this moneyzink more .
Not exactly, the gems are mostly used for fluff stuff and there is a limit to how many char slots and bankslots people will get, so I have a feeling gems will be rather cheap after a while.
So you will be able to get some gold for gems but it wont be any amazing exchange rate. And you can´t turn the gold or gems back to money which is very important.
Hopefully will this make things worse for hackers.
I am not overly worried, the same people who will buy gems and sell them for gold would get gold from an illegal site anyways otherwise, here noone earns money on it at least.
I frankly don´t care if someone buys gold in the game or not unless it gives them an advantages against me but since items of the same levdel are balanced is that not a huge problem.
I don't understand your reasoning there. If the people buying gem have few slots, that means they'll be less inclined to buy more gems and prices would tend to go up instead of down.
In the beginning gems will be cheap because gold will be sparse. I only see gem prices going significantly up, not really down for a low period of time.
Well, you can also buy XP boosts and such from the store, so you can definitely buy "advantages" over other players with real money.
Gems can be traded for ingame currency, with which you will then be able to buy crafted gear at least, so there's really no denying that it gives some sort of advantage.
If you play the game, you have to realise this is the case with the payment model they've gone for however, there aren't any extreme advantages that will totally blow the balance between a player who pays and one who doesn't at first sight though.
Yes...exactly right.
This cash shop thing is a really "polarizing" issue, and very few people seem to see it clearly. I have seen tons of posts from "anti" cash shop / GW2 people that seem to think that it will ruin the game and make the whole thing P2W. And I've also seen tons of posts from "pro" GW2 people who seem to think that the cash shop will have absolutely zero impact on the game at all.
The reality is, of course, in the middle. From my experience in GW2, I don't believe that the cash shop will "ruin" the game. There are plenty of safeguards like supply in WvW, or everyone being equal in SPvP to stop that from happening.
But at the same time, it seems obvious that the cash shop will have a large effect on the game. The fact that you can buy gold with gems alone will have a HUGE effect on the economy. And you really have to admit that the game is at least partially P2W in the sense that you can pay money, and get an advantage (gold, exp boosters, karma boosters, all advantages). And it's still not clear how much impact the ability to buy blueprints will have on WvW.
So I mean, instead of trying to argue that the cash shop is satan, or that it is an innocent little lamb...why not just try to see it rationally?
Polarizing? Only to those who don't understand that GW1 had a cash shop and it was NEVER a P2W. You either don't get what people are trying to say or don't want to. The latter is more accurate.
The economy is fine in GW1 - so why would there be any problems in GW2?
Let's get the game out before we argue this point to death - actually we already are.
It's not a mistake -its a design choice. Gold is NOT a very significant currency- if it is, then P2W arguments do stand very strong. Gold has to be far less significant than in other games, or we are going to have a P2W situation.
That doesn't mean at all that the system will not be used. It will be used and gold sellers will hate it because a lot of their potential buyers will be lazy, moral or fearfull enough to use the official trading option.
And btw i am not seeing that Volkon implyes that ArenaNet makes a mistake with this system.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Gems -- Bought with real-world cash and useful in the gem store.
Coin -- Earned in game through questing, killing mobs and player-player interactions.
Karma -- Earned from completing events and heart quests.
Glory -- Earned from sPvP.
Supply -- Part of WvWvW PvP and isn't exactly a personal currency.
Influence -- Karma earned for the guild and spent by the guild for upgrade/boon purposes.
Focusing on coin (gold) alone... So what? I've got tons of Karma on my elementalist. I've earned a lot of influence for the guild. I have squat for Glory because I only spent a few moments in PvP as I'm exploring classes... Supply is for WvWvW and what I had, I spent and don't know if it carries over in any case.
And, on top of that, I have all the gold I need... And so will, unless they're hopelessly lazy, everyone else. In fact I look at the system, how few thing are worth buying for gold that can with Karma I just don't understand why there is such an out-cry. It doesn't really look like, at this point in time, coins (gold) will be a big driving force in the game.
Thanks so much for pointing this out. People these days get all worked up over nothing.
Well, you can also buy XP boosts and such from the store, so you can definitely buy "advantages" over other players with real money.
Gems can be traded for ingame currency, with which you will then be able to buy crafted gear at least, so there's really no denying that it gives some sort of advantage.
If you play the game, you have to realise this is the case with the payment model they've gone for however, there aren't any extreme advantages that will totally blow the balance between a player who pays and one who doesn't at first sight though.
Yes...exactly right.
This cash shop thing is a really "polarizing" issue, and very few people seem to see it clearly. I have seen tons of posts from "anti" cash shop / GW2 people that seem to think that it will ruin the game and make the whole thing P2W. And I've also seen tons of posts from "pro" GW2 people who seem to think that the cash shop will have absolutely zero impact on the game at all.
The reality is, of course, in the middle. From my experience in GW2, I don't believe that the cash shop will "ruin" the game. There are plenty of safeguards like supply in WvW, or everyone being equal in SPvP to stop that from happening.
But at the same time, it seems obvious that the cash shop will have a large effect on the game. The fact that you can buy gold with gems alone will have a HUGE effect on the economy. And you really have to admit that the game is at least partially P2W in the sense that you can pay money, and get an advantage (gold, exp boosters, karma boosters, all advantages). And it's still not clear how much impact the ability to buy blueprints will have on WvW.
So I mean, instead of trying to argue that the cash shop is satan, or that it is an innocent little lamb...why not just try to see it rationally?
Polarizing? Only to those who don't understand that GW1 had a cash shop and it was NEVER a P2W. You either don't get what people are trying to say or don't want to. The latter is more accurate.
The economy is fine in GW1 - so why would there be any problems in GW2?
Let's get the game out before we argue this point to death - actually we already are.
But in GW1, you couldn't buy in-game currency (gold) with real money. In fact, almost everything in the GW1 CS, with the exception of skill unlocks, was exclusive to the CS, and none of it was "gameplay affecting" stuff.
In GW2 though, you can buy gold with real money, which essentially means that you can buy any item on the AH with real money. This is a pretty big difference, and I don't really think you can ignore it.
Gems -- Bought with real-world cash and useful in the gem store.
Coin -- Earned in game through questing, killing mobs and player-player interactions.
Karma -- Earned from completing events and heart quests.
Glory -- Earned from sPvP.
Supply -- Part of WvWvW PvP and isn't exactly a personal currency.
Influence -- Karma earned for the guild and spent by the guild for upgrade/boon purposes.
Focusing on coin (gold) alone... So what? I've got tons of Karma on my elementalist. I've earned a lot of influence for the guild. I have squat for Glory because I only spent a few moments in PvP as I'm exploring classes... Supply is for WvWvW and what I had, I spent and don't know if it carries over in any case.
And, on top of that, I have all the gold I need... And so will, unless they're hopelessly lazy, everyone else. In fact I look at the system, how few thing are worth buying for gold that can with Karma I just don't understand why there is such an out-cry. It doesn't really look like, at this point in time, coins (gold) will be a big driving force in the game.
Thanks so much for pointing this out. People these days get all worked up over nothing.
Gold is the only resource that can be used to buy things on the AH. Therefore, it is the only resource that "matters" in terms of the player economy. Just because the game has tons of other resources does not mean the cash shop will have 0 impact.
I dunno, in the end, the cash shop really doesn't bother me that much in GW2. But I don't think it's a good idea to just act like it will have no impact at all.
It's not a mistake -its a design choice. Gold is NOT a very significant currency- if it is, then P2W arguments do stand very strong. Gold has to be far less significant than in other games, or we are going to have a P2W situation.
That doesn't mean at all that the system will not be used. It will be used and gold sellers will hate it because a lot of their potential buyers will be lazy, moral or fearfull enough to use the official trading option.
And btw i am not seeing that Volkon implyes that ArenaNet makes a mistake with this system.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Gold may be rather insignificant for PvP, but not so for vanity. If people really like dressing up their characters a lot and the vanity-items obtainable through gold are desirable by those, then gold will still have a large meaning although not for PvP.
It's not a mistake -its a design choice. Gold is NOT a very significant currency- if it is, then P2W arguments do stand very strong. Gold has to be far less significant than in other games, or we are going to have a P2W situation.
That doesn't mean at all that the system will not be used. It will be used and gold sellers will hate it because a lot of their potential buyers will be lazy, moral or fearfull enough to use the official trading option.
And btw i am not seeing that Volkon implyes that ArenaNet makes a mistake with this system.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
It's funny that you missed the point and funnier yet that you added nothing to the debate.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
It's funny that you missed the point and funnier yet that you added nothing to the debate.
I already made my point. Its funny you missed it entirely and funnier yet that you never realised gold can buy gems.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
Yes, it is like buying gold, albeit with a few caveats:
1. Not purchasing from bots simply farming gold
2. Safer transaction for the player with a lower chance of identity theft
3. ANet makes the profits and not a warehouse in China
4. NO GOLD IS CREATED. Gems allow gold that already exists in the game to simply move around.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
It's funny that you missed the point and funnier yet that you added nothing to the debate.
I already made my point. Its funny you missed it entirely and funnier yet that you never realised gold can buy gems.
Now you are just putiing words in my mouth. But I'll play.
Who is going to buy the Gold if gold is insignificant? Who is going to waste their gems on insignificant gold?
I totally agree atlan and have been thinking about this for a while now. If their is nothing worth buying for gold, why would u buy gems then trade them for gold?
I guess we will see when the market is in full effect after a few months.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
It's funny that you missed the point and funnier yet that you added nothing to the debate.
I already made my point. Its funny you missed it entirely and funnier yet that you never realised gold can buy gems.
Now you are just putiing words in my mouth. But I'll play.
Who is going to buy the Gold if gold is insignificant? Who is going to waste their gems on insignificant gold?
What words exactly did i put in your mouth? Care to elaborate?
And obviously the people who needs gold. Is that really your questions?
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
It's funny that you missed the point and funnier yet that you added nothing to the debate.
I already made my point. Its funny you missed it entirely and funnier yet that you never realised gold can buy gems.
Now you are just putiing words in my mouth. But I'll play.
Who is going to buy the Gold if gold is insignificant? Who is going to waste their gems on insignificant gold?
What words exactly did i put in your mouth? Care to elaborate?
And obviously the people who needs gold. Is that really your questions?
Why would anybody need gold if it is insignificant?
exp boost / karma boost/ keys ? most than fine for me, obvious this items arent P2W item.
In GW2, they don't seem to be it due to the lack of power-progression, but in other games those would be definite Pay-To-Win.
Edit: Assuming we speak of the PvP competition.
how EXP boost is a P2W item? even on games where lvl is very important like LOTRO, lvl fast to reach max lvl dont give any advantage against other max lvl players, is just to reduce time nothing more nothing less.
if EXP boost was the only item sell on shops every F2P game was a dream for most of players. problem of F2P games is that most of them have really P2W item, like great gear/armour, great buffs, upgrade gear, etc.
this is what P2W item are, item that you pay and give advantage agaisnt any other player that dont spend money on shop.
seriously, if people think EXP boost is any kind of P2W item, is because never saw a really P2W shop
Why would anybody need gold if it is insignificant?
Who said its insignificant?
It's pretty insignificant. Anyone w/ half a brain can make gold insanely easy in this game. Not to mention that there are so many ways to get viable gear, that gold isn't your only option either. The primary use for gold is repair bills, waypoints, and siege blueprints / upgrades. All of which are pretty cheap (especially once you start getting passed lvl 10).
Hate to state the obvious, but this alot like how GW1 played out. And to this day you don't see gold farmers spamming the chat.
Originally posted by rankor2 I totally agree atlan and have been thinking about this for a while now. If their is nothing worth buying for gold, why would u buy gems then trade them for gold? I guess we will see when the market is in full effect after a few months.
you need to have gold to craft, repair, buy things from AH you want, lot of stuff.
obvious gold isnt so important compared with most of other MMORPG, because the best gear/stats are from craft and anyone can have them easy. upgrades gear are all easy to craft too.
why people will still trade gem for gold? just for convenience, too decrease time spend on craft, gathering resources, etc. convenience, not to have any advantage against any other player since he cant do that even if he have 500G
exp boost / karma boost/ keys ? most than fine for me, obvious this items arent P2W item.
In GW2, they don't seem to be it due to the lack of power-progression, but in other games those would be definite Pay-To-Win.
Edit: Assuming we speak of the PvP competition.
how EXP boost is a P2W item? even on games where lvl is very important like LOTRO, lvl fast to reach max lvl dont give any advantage against other max lvl players, is just to reduce time nothing more nothing less.
if EXP boost was the only item sell on shops every F2P game was a dream for most of players. problem of F2P games is that most of them have really P2W item, like great gear/armour, great buffs, upgrade gear, etc.
this is what P2W item are, item that you pay and give advantage agaisnt any other player that dont spend money on shop.
seriously, if people think EXP boost is any kind of P2W item, is because never saw a really P2W shop
Because unless the game is completely instanced and/or noone ever competes in pvp against each other where gear matters, there will be a major advantage in getting to the higher content first. Now, if the server already has many max level players and you just started, then that's a whole different scenario. I am refering to cases where the server is new and people are still not at max level.
Why would anybody need gold if it is insignificant?
Who said its insignificant?
It's pretty insignificant. Anyone w/ half a brain can make gold insanely easy in this game. Not to mention that there are so many ways to get viable gear, that gold isn't your only option either. The primary use for gold is repair bills, waypoints, and siege blueprints / upgrades. All of which are pretty cheap (especially once you start getting passed lvl 10).
Hate to state the obvious, but this alot like how GW1 played out. And to this day you don't see gold farmers spamming the chat.
Someone already said it, but just list a few:
1. Craft
2.. Tele.
3. Repair.
4. W v W.
5. Gear.
6. Alts (which start the cycle again).
etc.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
Comments
I think there is sweet spot between supply and blueprints , between WwW regulars and PvE players being quests.
If ArenaNet can hit the spot were supply limits the amount of siege equipment. But without everyone automaticly runs around with blueprints to every occations because gold cost is high enough.
And PvE players still will be very wellcome simply because they have more gold to spend on blueprints, than the PvP regulars, that simply would feel this moneyzink more .
There must be a sweet spot there.
I don't understand your reasoning there. If the people buying gem have few slots, that means they'll be less inclined to buy more gems and prices would tend to go up instead of down.
In the beginning gems will be cheap because gold will be sparse. I only see gem prices going significantly up, not really down for a low period of time.
Polarizing? Only to those who don't understand that GW1 had a cash shop and it was NEVER a P2W. You either don't get what people are trying to say or don't want to. The latter is more accurate.
The economy is fine in GW1 - so why would there be any problems in GW2?
Let's get the game out before we argue this point to death - actually we already are.
If Arenanet made a design choice to make gold insignificant. Then making a Gem- Gold exchange is a mistake because nobody in their right mind would trade gems for gold.
So either gold is significant or arenanet made a mistake. Take your pick.
But in GW1, you couldn't buy in-game currency (gold) with real money. In fact, almost everything in the GW1 CS, with the exception of skill unlocks, was exclusive to the CS, and none of it was "gameplay affecting" stuff.
In GW2 though, you can buy gold with real money, which essentially means that you can buy any item on the AH with real money. This is a pretty big difference, and I don't really think you can ignore it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Gold is the only resource that can be used to buy things on the AH. Therefore, it is the only resource that "matters" in terms of the player economy. Just because the game has tons of other resources does not mean the cash shop will have 0 impact.
I dunno, in the end, the cash shop really doesn't bother me that much in GW2. But I don't think it's a good idea to just act like it will have no impact at all.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
i just think people dont know what are P2W items
exp boost / karma boost/ keys ? most than fine for me, obvious this items arent P2W item.
In GW2, they don't seem to be it due to the lack of power-progression, but in other games those would be definite Pay-To-Win.
Edit: Assuming we speak of the PvP competition.
Gold may be rather insignificant for PvP, but not so for vanity. If people really like dressing up their characters a lot and the vanity-items obtainable through gold are desirable by those, then gold will still have a large meaning although not for PvP.
Its funny you think insignificant = wont be used.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
It's funny that you missed the point and funnier yet that you added nothing to the debate.
I already made my point. Its funny you missed it entirely and funnier yet that you never realised gold can buy gems.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
Yes, it is like buying gold, albeit with a few caveats:
1. Not purchasing from bots simply farming gold
2. Safer transaction for the player with a lower chance of identity theft
3. ANet makes the profits and not a warehouse in China
4. NO GOLD IS CREATED. Gems allow gold that already exists in the game to simply move around.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Now you are just putiing words in my mouth. But I'll play.
Who is going to buy the Gold if gold is insignificant? Who is going to waste their gems on insignificant gold?
I guess we will see when the market is in full effect after a few months.
What words exactly did i put in your mouth? Care to elaborate?
And obviously the people who needs gold. Is that really your questions?
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
Why would anybody need gold if it is insignificant?
Who said its insignificant?
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
how EXP boost is a P2W item? even on games where lvl is very important like LOTRO, lvl fast to reach max lvl dont give any advantage against other max lvl players, is just to reduce time nothing more nothing less.
if EXP boost was the only item sell on shops every F2P game was a dream for most of players. problem of F2P games is that most of them have really P2W item, like great gear/armour, great buffs, upgrade gear, etc.
this is what P2W item are, item that you pay and give advantage agaisnt any other player that dont spend money on shop.
seriously, if people think EXP boost is any kind of P2W item, is because never saw a really P2W shop
Good to see your keeping up with the dicussion.
It's pretty insignificant. Anyone w/ half a brain can make gold insanely easy in this game. Not to mention that there are so many ways to get viable gear, that gold isn't your only option either. The primary use for gold is repair bills, waypoints, and siege blueprints / upgrades. All of which are pretty cheap (especially once you start getting passed lvl 10).
Hate to state the obvious, but this alot like how GW1 played out. And to this day you don't see gold farmers spamming the chat.
you need to have gold to craft, repair, buy things from AH you want, lot of stuff.
obvious gold isnt so important compared with most of other MMORPG, because the best gear/stats are from craft and anyone can have them easy. upgrades gear are all easy to craft too.
why people will still trade gem for gold? just for convenience, too decrease time spend on craft, gathering resources, etc. convenience, not to have any advantage against any other player since he cant do that even if he have 500G
Because unless the game is completely instanced and/or noone ever competes in pvp against each other where gear matters, there will be a major advantage in getting to the higher content first. Now, if the server already has many max level players and you just started, then that's a whole different scenario. I am refering to cases where the server is new and people are still not at max level.
Someone already said it, but just list a few:
1. Craft
2.. Tele.
3. Repair.
4. W v W.
5. Gear.
6. Alts (which start the cycle again).
etc.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.